Author Topic: ketogenic  (Read 10357 times)

Fatpanda

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2008, 11:55:18 AM »
1. through gluconeogenesis, converting fats or proteins to glucose

2. your body can come out of Ketosis as soon as you introduce your carbs back in, if you eat too many calories you'll gain fat
if you eat just enough, you wont
dosn't matter if it is all from carbs

 ::)

thanks
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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2008, 11:58:49 AM »

PJim

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2008, 11:59:51 AM »
Creatine definately helps on a low to no carb diet as ATP will benefit from it.

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2008, 12:08:11 PM »
1. through gluconeogenesis, converting fats or proteins to glucose

2. your body can come out of Ketosis as soon as you introduce your carbs back in, if you eat too many calories you'll gain fat
if you eat just enough, you wont
dosn't matter if it is all from carbs

Wrong on doesnt matter.  Going ketogenic for a while takes care of the insulin resistant/sensitivity issue like that of type-2 diabetics.  If you dont watch the carb intake...as I said...welcome to FatGainville.

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2008, 12:11:20 PM »
in all honesty. i used that diet for almost 6 months. in that time my strength went to shit, i was always tired, my shoulders were dry, and in the end i ended up with torn rotators. i lost some weight, but it eventually stalled at 1500cals.

even after rehab, my shoulders were still hurting for months.

as soon as i added carbs back, my strength shot up, my shoulders now feel fine, i have energy again, i'm sleeping better.

i'm not saying don't try it, but if you do i would try a tkd version. i feel it worked much better than .

if you feel the way i did i would pack it in and go low fat instead.

Never felt that way. Weird.
I hate the State.

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2008, 12:16:02 PM »
if you've been on a keto diet for any length of time, and add carbs back in - i wouldn't worry about fat gain for a while. the body will first replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and liver before any fat gain occurs, although this only last for a while - around 800g worth i believe.

in fact some experts claim the carb intake would produce a gh spike due to the body being shocked, and may stimulate some further fat loss.
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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2008, 12:24:42 PM »
if you've been on a keto diet for any length of time, and add carbs back in - i wouldn't worry about fat gain for a while. the body will first replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and liver before any fat gain occurs, although this only last for a while - around 800g worth i believe.

in fact some experts claim the carb intake would produce a gh spike due to the body being shocked, and may stimulate some further fat loss.
the body has the capability to store only 2000 calories worth of carbs
that's 500 carbs

ASJChaotic

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2008, 12:26:32 PM »
if you've been on a keto diet for any length of time, and add carbs back in - i wouldn't worry about fat gain for a while. the body will first replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and liver before any fat gain occurs, although this only last for a while - around 800g worth i believe.

in fact some experts claim the carb intake would produce a gh spike due to the body being shocked, and may stimulate some further fat loss.
wrong again
carbs result in insulin release
insulin release prevents HGH release

Fatpanda

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2008, 04:26:58 AM »
seriously, you do not have the intellect to engage with me on a real scientific debate.

every claim i make can be backed with studies.

every claim you make is backs by toilet paper to wipe the shit from your mouth.

hope this helps.
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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2008, 04:47:10 AM »
The rough rule is 30 grams or under...the lower the better...almond and peanut butter are loaded with carbs...
I've always heard 50-60 grams for those who are fairly active.
And most veggies don't count.
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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2008, 10:10:53 PM »
you do not need to worry about being in 'ketosis' or abou trace carbs from nuts, eggs, veggies, ect ect.  ketosis is not a magical state its just a term to describe a metabolic state in which the brain no longer uses glucose as its main source of fuel but instead it adapts to the low glucose intake and instead uses ketones for the majority of its fuel.  ketones are a by product of fat metabolism and any time you are burning fat your producing ketones.  and there isnt any certain number of carbs that will put you in or out of ketosis, it varies fr4om person to person depending on individual metabolic factors. also, over time on a low carb/no starch diet your will adapt and revert to ketosis  even with quite high glucose intake. this is called beign 'fat adpated' and it does take some time without eating starch for it to happen.  the state of ketosis is so called 'protein sparing', because the brain uses glucose for fuel normaly, and when it uses fats instead, this eliminates the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose to meet the brains glucose demand. so it is protei sparing. but if your eating plenty of trace carbs from veggies and nuts and eggs then you will not have to worry about the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose because youll have the glucose already available from ingested trace carbohydrate.   consuming plenty of veggies  will prvoide many benefits to those seeking improved body composition, to name a few = better ph (more alkaline), vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients, antidioxidants, "negative calories",  dietray fiber which will improve protein digestion by cleaning the dgestive tract and keping food moving and also will provide short chain fatty acids to intestinal bacteria which will lower glucose output by the liver  and lower circulating insulin levels.

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2008, 12:12:53 PM »
seriously, you do not have the intellect to engage with me on a real scientific debate.

every claim i make can be backed with studies.

every claim you make is backs by toilet paper to wipe the shit from your mouth.

hope this helps.

i wont take sides on this, but you both should be posting studies,refs to back up your claims. One of you is right. :D

ASJChaotic

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2008, 12:26:51 PM »
i wont take sides on this, but you both should be posting studies,refs to back up your claims. One of you is right. :D

I'm right, like I said the body can only store 2000 calories worth of carbs, 500 calories
and insulin prevents HGH release  :)

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2008, 12:36:43 PM »
I'm right, like I said the body can only store 2000 calories worth of carbs, 500 calories
and insulin prevents HGH release  :)

enlighten the people who may not know phsiology, plus saying im right is not an argument. :D

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2008, 01:39:39 PM »
I'd do it again but I can't fight a zero carb isolate... :-\
I hate the State.

ASJChaotic

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2008, 06:07:06 PM »
I'd do it again but I can't fight a zero carb isolate... :-\
I told you before bro, it doesn't have to be ZERO carbs
anything less than 50 carbs = keto
you have to wait about 4 days for your body to get into ketosis however

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2008, 08:28:10 PM »
AXA has no business in giving out ANY nutrition advice.

ASJChaotic

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2008, 10:08:52 PM »
AXA has no business in giving out ANY nutrition advice.
alright, yes I was not ripped to shreds at Mr. Getbig 3 ....... I didn't even diet
just because someone doesn't apply their knowledge to themselves doesn't mean they don't have the knowledge
you're saying that the person should be in Andreas Munzer condition to give out nutrition advice?
I'm trying to help people on here!
feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or help them yourself  ???

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2008, 05:19:04 AM »
i wont take sides on this, but you both should be posting studies,refs to back up your claims. One of you is right. :D

Ok, backing my claim the body can store around 800g of carbs in the muscle and liver.

International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing.Kerksick C, Harvey T, Stout J, Campbell B, Wilborn C, Kreider R, Kalman D, Ziegenfuss T, Lopez H, Landis J, Ivy JL, Antonio J.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK 73019, USA. Chad_Kerksick@ou.edu.

ABSTRACT: Position Statement: The position of the Society regarding nutrient timing and the intake of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats in reference to healthy, exercising individuals is summarized by the following eight points: 1.)   Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis. 2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 - 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 - 8% CHO solution (8 - 16 fluid ounces) every 10 - 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHO:PRO ratio of 3 - 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise. 3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training. 4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 - 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g - 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 - 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis. 5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis. 6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions. 7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training. 8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.


and

Dietary carbohydrate, muscle glycogen, and power output during rowing training.Simonsen JC, Sherman WM, Lamb DR, Dernbach AR, Doyle JA, Strauss R.
Exercise Physiology Laboratory, School of Health, Physical Education, and Recreation, Ohio State University, Columbus 43210-1284.

The belief that high-carbohydrate diets enhance training capacity (mean power output) has been extrapolated from studies that have varied dietary carbohydrate over a few days and measured muscle glycogen but did not assess power output during training. We hypothesized that a high-carbohydrate (HI) diet (10 g.kg body mass-1.day-1) would promote greater muscle glycogen content and greater mean power output during training than a moderate-carbohydrate (MOD) diet (5 g.kg body mass-1.day-1) over 4 wk of intense twice-daily rowing training. Dietary protein intake was 2 g.kg body mass-1.day-1, and fat intake was adjusted to maintain body mass. Twelve male and 10 female collegiate rowers were randomly assigned to the treatment groups. Training was 40 min at 70% peak O2 consumption (VO2) (A.M.) and either three 2,500-m time trials to assess power output or interval training at 70-90% peak VO2 (P.M.). Mean daily training was 65 min at 70% peak VO2 and 38 min at greater than or equal to 90% peak VO2. Mean muscle glycogen content increased 65% in the HI group (P less than 0.05) but remained constant at 119 mmol/kg in the MOD group over the 4 wk. Mean power output in time trials increased 10.7 and 1.6% after 4 wk in the HI and MOD groups, respectively (P less than 0.05). We conclude that a diet with 10 g carbohydrate.kg body mass-1.day-1 promotes greater muscle glycogen content and greater power output during training than a diet containing 5 g carbohydrate.kg body mass-1.day-1 over 4 wk of intense twice-daily rowing training.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)


to back my claim that carbs may lead to a gh boost:

Dr Mauro Pasquale claims in his anabolic diet book Chp 3, p27:


Growth hormone also acts almost like a “starvation” hormone. When your body’s in trouble
or when you’re threatened or in “fight or flight syndrome,” GH kicks in to mobilize stores of
energy in the body to deal with stress and these increased needs. It will also increase under the
stress of exercise. Usually insulin works to decrease the secretion of growth hormone, but the body sees the
great increase in carbs and insulin during the weekend as a stressful situation, much like exercise,
and growth hormone actually increases with insulin. In this way, we get the positive effects of
growth hormone stimulus both during the week and on weekends.


and further proof than increased insulin levels do not necesarily negate gh effects.:

Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise
R. M. Chandler, H. K. Byrne, J. G. Patterson and J. L. Ivy
Department of Kinesiology, University of Texas at Austin 78712.

To examine the effect of carbohydrate and/or protein supplements on the hormonal state of the body after weight-training exercise, nine experienced male weight lifters were given water (Control) or an isocaloric carbohydrate (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt), or carbohydrate-protein (CHO/PRO; 1.06 g carbohydrate/kg body wt and 0.41 g protein/kg) supplement immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout. Venous blood samples were drawn before and immediately after exercise and during 8 h of recovery. Exercise induced elevations in lactate, glucose, testosterone, and growth hormone. CHO and CHO/PRO stimulated higher insulin concentrations than PRO and Control. CHO/PRO led to an increase in growth hormone 6 h postexercise that was greater than PRO and Control. Supplements had no effect on insulin-like growth factor I but caused a significant decline in testosterone. The decline in testosterone, however, was not associated with a decline in luteinizing hormone, suggesting an increased clearance of testosterone after supplementation. The results suggest that nutritive supplements after weight-training exercise can produce a hormonal environment during recovery that may be favorable to muscle growth by stimulating insulin and growth hormone elevations.

  I now await AsjPathetics response, but i won;t be holding my breath while i wait.  ::)

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2008, 05:55:20 AM »
These!

you do not need to worry about being in 'ketosis' or abou trace carbs from nuts, eggs, veggies, ect ect.  ketosis is not a magical state its just a term to describe a metabolic state in which the brain no longer uses glucose as its main source of fuel but instead it adapts to the low glucose intake and instead uses ketones for the majority of its fuel.  ketones are a by product of fat metabolism and any time you are burning fat your producing ketones.  and there isnt any certain number of carbs that will put you in or out of ketosis, it varies fr4om person to person depending on individual metabolic factors. also, over time on a low carb/no starch diet your will adapt and revert to ketosis  even with quite high glucose intake. this is called beign 'fat adpated' and it does take some time without eating starch for it to happen.  the state of ketosis is so called 'protein sparing', because the brain uses glucose for fuel normaly, and when it uses fats instead, this eliminates the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose to meet the brains glucose demand. so it is protei sparing. but if your eating plenty of trace carbs from veggies and nuts and eggs then you will not have to worry about the possibility of proteins being converted to glucose because youll have the glucose already available from ingested trace carbohydrate.   consuming plenty of veggies  will prvoide many benefits to those seeking improved body composition, to name a few = better ph (more alkaline), vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients, antidioxidants, "negative calories",  dietray fiber which will improve protein digestion by cleaning the dgestive tract and keping food moving and also will provide short chain fatty acids to intestinal bacteria which will lower glucose output by the liver  and lower circulating insulin levels.

Hell, I'd take it a step further & say there is no such thing as being "in" or "out" of ketosis (contrary to what I used to think) in the sense that bodybuilders seem to think of it.  It's not like 29g of carbs a day and you're "in" but 31g and you're suddenly "out."  It is only the depth of ketosis that varies imo.



i wrote this some time back on another forum

1st of all why do you loose fat when on a ketogenic diet??

The brain need 150g sugar and 2000 liter oxygen per day … however when you are giving you body less carbohydrates (sugar) the brain starts to give signals that it needs sugar and makes you feel hungry and feel depressed regardless how much protein and fat you eat for the first 3 or 4 days … then after the brain gets convinced that no sugar is going in … “Ketons” are released in the blood stream and the body turns to the ketosis mode

In this phase the body is using fat as a source of energy (for the brain and rest of the organs and activates) however … the body tends to release stored fat only when fat is coming in the body that’s why you should continue taking good fat (essential fat) … a rule of thumb is 1-1.5g protein per lbs + .75g essential fat + carbs only from vegetable that is mostly fiber and the human body cannot digest fiber and use it as a source of energy (the human body doesn’t have the enzymes required to convert fiber to usable energy source)

So no starch, dairy, fruit sugar is allowed in this diet (i.e lactose & fructose)

Types of fat:

If you take in any kind of fat ... the diet will still work perfectly fine … but in sports nutrition “HEALTH” is the 1st aspect of any diet … so fat should be consumed from the follow:

1. raw and non-roasted nuts (pistachio, cashew nut, almonds, whole nut … but not from peanuts)
2. omega 3 and 6 balanced oils … like fish oil … however olive oil is hi in omega 6 and flax seed is hi in omega 3 and neither is a balanced choice … that’s y “Udo Erasmus” who is discovered flaxseed oil made a blend and called it “Udo’s choice” which has a balance of all 3 omegas (3,6,9) … what I recommend is half table spoon of flaxseed oil and half table spoon of olive oil to get a balanced omega 3 and 6 oil … and if you are taking 2 table spoons of oil .. than 1 tbl spn flaxseed oil and 1 tbl spn olive oil … cheaper and effective … BUT “DON’T COOK WITH IT”
3. almond butter, whole nut butter, cashew nut butter without any additive sugar … so a 100g of the butter should only have around 5 grams carbs … which is what u get from the actual nut
4. egg yolks are ok … however omega 3 eggs are better (if eaten raw) but it is too expensive … just stick to the regular eggs and you will be fine


What is Saturated and Trans fat?

Saturated fat can be found in red poultry (duck and turkey) and red meat … however saturated fat has been proven to be necessary for testosterone production and is a must have in any diet.

After 8 years of research and spending hell lot of money on researches to discover what is the main reason for heart diseases in the past few decades … “Trans fat” was announced to be the winner … trans fat is a type of fat that doesn’t exist in nature … it is created when over heating fat or oil … so it was created by humans … after that research … every company in the states and some European countries were obliged to have a trans fat row in their nutrition fact label … so if you will get most of you fat from t-bone steak and deep fried chicken the diet will definitely work ... however not a healthy choice … so it is better to make the diet work and stay I the safe zone …

If you follow what “Dr. Atkins” advocated he didn’t really care what type of fat you ate … but you got to keep an eye on you cholesterol and triglyceride which will stay moderate as long as you don’t take hi sugar … but will be like a “TIMED BOMB” waiting to explode once you go off the diet and eat sugar … where as with healthy fat … you might experience a bit hi cholesterol … but for athletes hi cholesterol is common for good testosterone production (and most of it will be HDL anyway)

When you do this diet … usually a lot of people loose 2-4KGs in the first 4 days cause you body is getting the glycogen out of the muscle and no water is stored with respect to glycogen storage (cause of 0 carbs) … joint will get a bit weaker again for the reason of less water retention … so increasing your sodium and taking any form of “Glucosamine” is advised.

Sex drive wont be at its peak … but you will have 80% of it all the time with out getting crazy hormone rage or crashing after that (like what happens in a hi carb diet) … once you get use to it … you will be stable and will be able to think straight and the depression will go away (that is after the 4 days)

You can stay on this diet for 16-20 weeks maximum and only when getting for shoow and how far away you are … later on you can get back on a regular diet … a 40% protein 40%carbs and 20% essential fat will be just fine … just stay away from “HI FUCTOSE CORN SYRUP”


Uric acid and BUN “Blood Urea Nitrogen” can usually get hi in any high protein diet … and that occurs when consuming more protein than you use … Uric acid and BUN are referred to as protein waste as well … however HMB has proven to drop those values by holding the protein synthesis.



I've done the Atkins diet in the past....my only carbs were coming from vegetables for a while.
Personally, not something I'd recommend if you want energy in the gym. Sure, your body gets 'used' to it but lifting weights was becoming more of me trying to summon mental strength instead of physical. To the point when it was just not fun anymore and depleting me.
When in ketosis I was always thirsty, needed to piss a lot  and felt quite nervous and edgy for some reason and needed to eat someting every 2 hours or I just wouldn't have any energy, like running on empty without any reserves in the tank.

But what has worked and which I feel overall really good with is to have a low carb diet with lots of good quality protein, vegatables and fruit. And to stay away from foods containing wheat and gluten. But to still stay just above ketosis.
Basically only eating foods that aren't processed and what humans were designed to eat.

It's only the last few thousand years that humans have started farming....before that the only food we ate was what we hunted and some occasional fruits and vegetables picked from nature and not cultivated.

I've tried a higher carb diet recently and felt terrible and was getting sick really easily as well. On the 'caveman diet', my energy, mood, health and everything just feels better.
Just my own opinion though and what works for me.....might be different for other body types.



Gluten is not a carb but a protein that gets formed when the wheat germ gets wet and two other proteins, gliadin and glutenin, combine.  It's what gives bread the required structural strength to support itself through rising and baking, and (because it's tough and chewy...gluey!) it's what you don't want a lot of in a cake.  That's why summer wheat which is comparatively high in protein makes the best breads while "cake flour" contains only enough protein to support the delicate structure (which is why your mom always told you not to open the oven door until the cake is fully baked).

Enough with the baking lesson.  Excellent post.  And another: 


Basically just keeping more to the types of foods that humans would have eaten when we were still hunter-gatherers. Foods like beef, chicken, fish and lots of fruit, vegetables and some nuts and seeds.
And to stay away from foods like bread, pasta, pastries, rice, foods with processed sugars or just processed foods in general.
I also stay away from protein shakes, soya and milk (except yoghurt)

This is just my loose interpretation of such diet and I don't think it should be absolute. For instance I do have some oats and I sometimes will have some burgers from Mcdonald's but this is very rare. I also eat organic peanut-butter.
And if I feel hungry, I eat, it doesn't matter what time it is.

And obviously to a certain extent a lot of the foods I listed are cultivated and not totally natural (chemicals, pesticides etc) but there's not much one can really do about that.

Though I'm using this diet more because I feel better, no longer get allergies, feel more alert and never feel bloated and my stomach works like clockwork every single morning.



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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2008, 06:06:03 AM »
These!

Hell, I'd take it a step further & say there is no such thing as being "in" or "out" of ketosis (contrary to what I used to think) in the sense that bodybuilders seem to think of it.  It's not like 29g of carbs a day and you're "in" but 31g and you're suddenly "out."  It is only the depth of ketosis that varies imo.




This is true.

Also there is evedence to suggest that being in ketosis is not protein sparing at all, and actually the opposite.  :o
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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2008, 06:18:47 AM »
This is true.

Also there is evedence to suggest that being in ketosis is not protein sparing at all, and actually the opposite.  :o

I like Griffith's approach, if I understand him correctly.  Moderated carb consumption from (mostly) good sources.  I'm day 2 into a mini-diet.  (Mom's coming for Christmas and o man can she cook!)  Roughly 180g/day, might cycle it around a bit depending on how I feel, but I'll bet I'd get a little color change on a keto stick at even 180g since I'm in cal debt.  Muscle loss shouldn't be a concern tho since I'm not pushing that hard. 

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2008, 08:05:58 AM »
This is true.

Also there is evedence to suggest that being in ketosis is not protein sparing at all, and actually the opposite.  :o

all your little study there proved was "Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d),"
doesn't say ANYTHING about 800 carbs being able to be stored in the body
doesn't mean cuz you take 1000 carbs, they are all going to be stored as glycogen
because the limit is 500 carbs genius, hope this helps  :D
and if you wanna play your little study game, play with Adonis, I don't have time to dig up everything I have ever read   ::)

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2008, 08:27:05 AM »
all your little study there proved was "Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d),"
doesn't say ANYTHING about 800 carbs being able to be stored in the body
doesn't mean cuz you take 1000 carbs, they are all going to be stored as glycogen
because the limit is 500 carbs genius, hope this helps  :D
and if you wanna play your little study game, play with Adonis, I don't have time to dig up everything I have ever read   ::)

Easy with the numbers stud.  I'm thinking Ronnie Coleman can hold a little more than I can.

On another note, I'd speculate that glycogen production isn't going to be 100% efficient - that is, not every gram of carb is going to go straight to the muscle.  With super elevated blood sugar, a higher % is going to become fat even in a glycogen depleted state.  Yes... I'm just guessing.

ASJChaotic

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Re: ketogenic
« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2008, 08:28:19 AM »
Easy with the numbers stud.  I'm thinking Ronnie Coleman can hold a little more than I can.

On another note, I'd speculate that glycogen production isn't going to be 100% efficient - that is, not every gram of carb is going to go straight to the muscle.  With super elevated blood sugar, a higher % is going to become fat even in a glycogen depleted state.  Yes... I'm just guessing.
exactly  ;)