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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: big L dawg on December 09, 2008, 05:30:56 PM
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what do you guys think?no isolation just compound movements 4 a couple months.just to switch it up.
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I enjoyed it when I tried it. I was trying to increase my 8-rep max on a different exercise each week and it kept me motivated for quite a while doing that. I would keep an eye on the volume though, cos too much of this can lead to overtraining quite quickly.
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better than the other way around
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what do you guys think?no isolation just compound movements 4 a couple months.just to switch it up.
Well, you will build more muscle than you ever have in your weightlifting career if you've never done that before. ;)
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Well, you will build more muscle than you ever have in your weightlifting career if you've never done that before. ;)
I'v done it for maybe a week or or two.but never long term like 8-10 weeks.
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I'v done it for maybe a week or or two.but never long term like 8-10 weeks.
Stick with it, train for strength, and eliminate isolations altogether for a number of months.
You'll pack on more size than ever if you've never done this seriously...
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what do you guys think?no isolation just compound movements 4 a couple months.just to switch it up.
Good idea, you won't lose size anywhere because you'll be recruiting those motor units and have already been developed with isolation.
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You're not even gonna curl?
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You're not even gonna curl?
no
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You're not even gonna curl?
Compound lifts like chins (or palms-up pulldowns) and deadlifts will still hit the biceps and make them grow.
Also, when you make your legs grow (ex., squats) your whole body will grow.
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You're not even gonna curl?
Rowing/pulling movements will incorporate the biceps. I did 0 bicep work for a good 2 months because of tendonitis, I lost less that 1/4 of an inch off my arms, but my bicep strength did drop. :(
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Compound lifts like chins (or palms-up pulldowns) and deadlifts will still hit the biceps and make them grow.
I've seen studies that have contended that an underhand chin with a full range of motion recruits more motor units in the biceps than a traditional barbell curl.
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better than the other way around
Exactly.
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Yes, a closer underhanded grip can be a major bicep developer. Easier for most folk to use a curl grip pull down though. Doing one arm at a time can work well with a cable pull down handle. The twist with-in the ROM can be very affective for the biceps. Check out the arm's of most gymnist who use the rings and that twisting affect.
Another exercise no one see's anymore is rope climbing. Exellent for biceps and the lat's. Known a few rock climbers also, in the past. Lean but usually good forearms, biceps, delts and lats.
DL's can stretch the biceps but probably not a major factor for bicep growth. Just my view. Good Luck.
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the greatest bencher of all time James Henderson does just flat benches and close grips for his bench press training, sometimes some inclines, that's it.
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Yes, a closer underhanded grip can be a major bicep developer. Easier for most folk to use a curl grip pull down though. Doing one arm at a time can work well with a cable pull down handle. The twist with-in the ROM can be very affective for the biceps. Check out the arm's of most gymnist who use the rings and that twisting affect.
Another exercise no one see's anymore is rope climbing. Exellent for biceps and the lat's. Known a few rock climbers also, in the past. Lean but usually good forearms, biceps, delts and lats.
DL's can stretch the biceps but probably not a major factor for bicep growth. Just my view. Good Luck.
Hell of a point. Rope climbing is extremely effective. It would be great to see more gyms offer a rope to climb for their members.
They probably don't because 1) both themselves and the majority of their members don't realize how effective it is, and 2) liability issues. :-\
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Hell of a point. Rope climbing is extremely effective. It would be great to see more gyms offer a rope to climb for their members.
They probably don't because 1) both themselves and the majority of their members don't realize how effective it is, and 2) liability issues. :-\
Probably #2 more than anything else.
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Probably #2 more than anything else.
Yeah, if someone climbed to the ceiling and dropped they may be in very deep shit.
Maybe have them sign a waiver that doesn't hold the gym reliable for accidents caused by use of their equipment...I believe that's what they do now, have members sign a paper that has "at your own risk" type terms. I guess it's similar to if some idiot loaded up too much on the squat, it makes them collapse and crushes their spine, the gym wouldn't be responsible...
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These parts will not grow
biceps
triceps
middle deltoids
calves
depeding on which exercises you do, and how deep you go on squats your hamstrings might not either
which exercises are you doing?
bench
squat
deadlift
row
shoulder press
?
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These parts will not grow
biceps
triceps
middle deltoids
calves
depeding on which exercises you do, and how deep you go on squats your hamstrings might not either
which exercises are you doing?
bench
squat
deadlift
row
shoulder press
?
Of course they will, apart from calves.
Biceps - during chins and rows.
Triceps - during any pressing movement.
Middle Delt - during any shoulder press.
All of which are normally included in this type of workout. It's essentially what anyone who's starting out should be doing as well, all compounds, 6-12 reps, with a weight heavy for them. You can do whole body twice a week, or break it down into 2 or 3 day sessions using nothing but compounds.
Don't forget that 'compound' refers to any exercise where more than one muscle group is involved. So anything from squats to military presses to chins to upright rows even.
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Of course they will, apart from calves.
Biceps - during chins and rows.
Triceps - during any pressing movement.
Middle Delt - during any shoulder press.
All of which are normally included in this type of workout. It's essentially what anyone who's starting out should be doing as well, all compounds, 6-12 reps, with a weight heavy for them. You can do whole body twice a week, or break it down into 2 or 3 day sessions using nothing but compounds.
Don't forget that 'compound' refers to any exercise where more than one muscle group is involved. So anything from squats to military presses to chins to upright rows even.
the middle delt is not working during pressing movements, it's "assisting" look at powerlifters
they can press alot but still don't have the shoulder cap of bodybuilders
plus, for your bodypart to grow you need to hit it with enough intensity
being a secondary muscle is not just gonna do it
Your body only works in terms of survival, and only grows the muscles that you train ;)
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the bis and tris will still definitly grow and so will the lateral delt to a lesser extent probably not the calves...i like the idea but still would throw in a few isolation exercises just do the compounds first
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the middle delt is not working during pressing movements, it's "assisting" look at powerlifters
they can press alot but still don't have the shoulder cap of bodybuilders
plus, for your bodypart to grow you need to hit it with enough intensity
being a secondary muscle is not just gonna do it
Your body only works in terms of survival, and only grows the muscles that you train ;)
First things first. You are a fucking retard. Pick up a kinesiology book and read for a while. You're pretty much the last person qualified to be giving any sort of training advice.
Second, most people can grow like a weed doing compound-only work. It's not a refinement program where you're worried about how balanced your side delts are, it's a strength and muscle-building program where you're looking to add 10-12 pounds of raw muscle in a pretty short period of time. More people would be better off following this style of program for the first few years of training.
Third, compare your shoulder development to ANY world-class powerlifter and tell me that you beat them in "shoulder cap".
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the bis and tris will still definitly grow and so will the lateral delt to a lesser extent probably not the calves...i like the idea but still would throw in a few isolation exercises just do the compounds first
Throw in some standing or donkey calf raises, or hell, just power cleans with ankle extension and your calves are good.
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First things first. You are a fucking retard. Pick up a kinesiology book and read for a while. You're pretty much the last person qualified to be giving any sort of training advice.
Second, most people can grow like a weed doing compound-only work. It's not a refinement program where you're worried about how balanced your side delts are, it's a strength and muscle-building program where you're looking to add 10-12 pounds of raw muscle in a pretty short period of time. More people would be better off following this style of program for the first few years of training.
Third, compare your shoulder development to ANY world-class powerlifter and tell me that you beat them in "shoulder cap".
Exercise
Dumbbell shoulder press
Muscles
Target
Deltoid, Anterior
Synergists
Deltoid, Lateral
Supraspinatus
Triceps Brachii
Trapezius, Middle
Trapezius, Lower
Serratus Anterior, Inferior Digitations
Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
Dynamic Stabilizers
Triceps, Long Head
Biceps Brachii
Stabilizers
Trapezius, Upper
Levator Scapulae
Meltdown and Owned
(http://civilizer.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/middle-finger-of-the-apocalypse.jpg)
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Exercise
Dumbbell shoulder press
Muscles
Target
Deltoid, Anterior
Synergists
Deltoid, Lateral
Supraspinatus
Triceps Brachii
Trapezius, Middle
Trapezius, Lower
Serratus Anterior, Inferior Digitations
Pectoralis Major, Clavicular
Dynamic Stabilizers
Triceps, Long Head
Biceps Brachii
Stabilizers
Trapezius, Upper
Levator Scapulae
Congratulations, you listed information that has the lateral head of the deltoid as second-most activated, right behind the front delt. The side delt in a military press is just as heavily used as the mid- and lower-traps in a bent row, the forearms in a barbell curl, the front delts in a bench press, the hamstrings in a squat, etc. Way to prove my point for me.
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Congratulations, you listed information that has the lateral head of the deltoid as second-most activated, right behind the front delt. The side delt in a military press is just as heavily used as the mid- and lower-traps in a bent row, the forearms in a barbell curl, the front delts in a bench press, the hamstrings in a squat, etc. Way to prove my point for me.
I already said that, it's a secondary assisting muscle group
I thought you were saying it was the main muscle activated
no need for hatred, we can teach and learn without it :D
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I already said that, it's a secondary assisting muscle group
I thought you were saying it was the main muscle activated
no need for hatred, we can teach and learn without it :D
Your original quote said the lateral head is not working during a shoulder press. This is akin to saying the triceps are not working during a bench press.
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Your original quote said the lateral head is not working during a shoulder press. This is akin to saying the triceps are not working during a bench press.
it's assisting, I had a poor choice of words getting my message accross by using "working"
the middle delt is not working during pressing movements, it's "assisting"
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what do you guys think?no isolation just compound movements 4 a couple months.just to switch it up.
great idea.
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it's assisting, I had a poor choice of words getting my message accross by using "working"
Bottom line - the lateral head receives enough stimulation from presses in a compound movement program to grow. Period. Maybe not as much as you'd like, but as you're going to learn someday, you can't prioritize every muscle on your body. The goal in this case is to get stronger in the basic movements and add extra mass so you can apply it to more isolated muscles later on.
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good stuff.squats,deadlift,military,bench press,pull/chinups,upright rows,is the exercises 2 months minimum.never worried about calves.I'm lucky in that regard they are natually large.
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good stuff.squats,deadlift,military,bench press,pull/chinups,upright rows,is the exercises 2 months minimum.never worried about calves.I'm lucky in that regard they are natually large.
keeping the reps low? how many workouts per week you planning, 3 (m,w,f)?
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good stuff.squats,deadlift,military,bench press,pull/chinups,upright rows,is the exercises 2 months minimum.never worried about calves.I'm lucky in that regard they are natually large.
2 years would be better. Matters how far along you are. This will make you grow everywhere.
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keeping the reps low? how many workouts per week you planning, 3 (m,w,f)?
I just started but I plan on every other day so m,w,f,sun,t,th,sat unless I feel I need to throw in an extra day of rest.reps not sure but probably no more than 8-10.
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I just started but I plan on every other day so m,w,f,sun,t,th,sat unless I feel I need to throw in an extra day of rest.reps not sure but probably no more than 8-10.
I'd suggest 6-8 to maximise the potential for strength increases.
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2 years would be better. Matters how far along you are. This will make you grow everywhere.
I'm seasoned.32 been lifting since 16 so half my life,other than a few party years around 21.of course I've done all these movements for years but never exclusively and never with this split.
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I'm seasoned.32 been lifting since 16 so half my life,other than a few party years around 21.of course I've done all these movements for years but never exclusively and never with this split.
Wow, you may be in for a pleasant surprise!
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I just started but I plan on every other day so m,w,f,sun,t,th,sat unless I feel I need to throw in an extra day of rest.reps not sure but probably no more than 8-10.
are you doing full body workouts? i think i would overtrain real fast going every other day.
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Throw in some standing or donkey calf raises, or hell, just power cleans with ankle extension and your calves are good.
i wish my gym had a standing donkey calf raise machine i love those.
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I am thinking about doing this as well, how does this look for a full-body to be done 3 times a week? My current gym doesnt have a bar; I live in the middle of nowhere.
Flat dumbbell bench press 3 x 8
Bodyweight dips 3 sets to failure
Dumbbell squats 3 x 8
Lunges 3 x 16 (each leg alternately)
Standing dumbbell shoulder press 3 x 8
Standing Arnold press 3 x 8
Seated row machine 3 x 8
Lat pulldown 3 x 8
Close grip chin ups 3 sets to failure
Any thoughts?
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Not a bad routine. How about this instead?
Crunches
Squats
Stiff Legs
Rows
Bench
Behind the Neck Presses
Curls
Lying Extensions
Forearm Curls
Calf Raises
More balanced.
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I am thinking about doing this as well, how does this look for a full-body to be done 3 times a week? My current gym doesn’t have a bar; I live in the middle of nowhere.
Flat dumbbell bench press – 3 x 8
Bodyweight dips – 3 sets to failure
Dumbbell squats – 3 x 8
Lunges – 3 x 16 (each leg alternately)
Standing dumbbell shoulder press – 3 x 8
Standing Arnold press – 3 x 8
Seated row machine – 3 x 8
Lat pulldown – 3 x 8
Close grip chin ups – 3 sets to failure
Any thoughts?
WTF ???
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IMO. i really think this is the best way to train(compound movements). Every body part gets hit very well with heavy weights. No need for isolation at all. Isolation is for the completion of the package when you can already squat, deadlift, bench 400/400/300lbs .. until then, focus on strength gains and size will come..
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What does the split look like when doing something like this?
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This intrigues me too :D
How about this?...
Chest & Triceps
DB or BB Press (flat or incline?) 4-6 sets
Dips 4-6 Sets
Back, Biceps and Hams
Deadlifts 4-6 sets
Pulldowns w underhand grip 4-6 sets
Quads & Glutes
Squats 4-6 sets
In this regime, should delts be done too with db/bb press? or do they get hit enough anyway?
I like to note that i have never trained like this for any period of time before, only a single workout here and there.
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wooooowwwwwwwww hardcore baaaaaaaaabbbyyyyyyy
any pics? "bobby" ? :D
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pics of what?