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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Mark Kerr on December 18, 2008, 07:08:28 AM
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Wow.
(CNN) -- Prominent liberal groups and gay rights proponents criticized President-elect Barack Obama Wednesday for choosing evangelical pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at the presidential inauguration next month.
Warren, one of the most influential religious leaders in the nation, has championed issues such as a reduction of global poverty, human rights abuses and the AIDS epidemic.
But the founder of the Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, has also adhered to socially conservative stances -- including his opposition to gay marriage and abortion rights that puts him at odds with many in the Democratic Party, especially the party's most liberal wing.
"[It's] shrewd politics, but if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now," Andrew Sullivan wrote on the Atlantic Web site Wednesday.
People for the American Way President Kathryn Kolbert told CNN she is "deeply disappointed" with the choice of Warren and said the powerful platform at the inauguration should instead have been given to someone who has "consistent mainstream American values." iReport.com: What do you think of the pick?
"There is no substantive difference between Rick Warren and James Dobson," Kolbert said. "The only difference is tone. His tone is moderate, but his ideas are radical."
Dobson, a social conservative leader, is founder and chairman of Focus on the Family.
Linda Douglass, a spokeswoman for Obama, defended the choice of Warren, saying, "This is going to be the most inclusive, open, accessible inauguration in American history."
"The president-elect certainly disagrees with him on [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] issues," Douglass said. "But it has always been his goal to find common ground with people with whom you may disagree on some issues."
Douglass also noted that Obama and Warren agree on several issues, including advocating on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged and people who suffer from HIV/AIDS.
Warren's support of California's Proposition 8, a measure that outlaws same-sex marriage in the state, sparked the ire of many gay rights proponents earlier this fall.
Warren, who has made it a practice not to endorse candidates or political parties, wrote in October that the issue of gay marriage is not a political issue, but instead "a moral issue that God has spoken clearly about."
"For 5,000 years, every culture and every religion -- not just Christianity -- has defined marriage as a contract between men and women," Warren wrote in a newsletter to his congregation. "There is no reason to change the universal, historical definition of marriage to appease 2 percent of our population."
Warren also stirred controversy earlier this week when he told Beliefnet.com his grounds for opposing same-sex marriage lay primarily on his right of free speech.
"There were all kinds of threats that if [Proposition 8] did not pass, then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn't think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech."
Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights campaign, said Wednesday he feels a "deep level of disrespect" over the choice of Warren and is calling on Obama to reconsider the move.
"By inviting Rick Warren to your inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table," Solmonese said in an open letter to Obama that was released by his organization.
In his recent interview with Beliefnet, Warren also sparked outrage among supporters of abortion rights for criticizing those who have said abortion would be "safe and rare."
"Don't tell me it should be rare," he said in the interview. "That's like saying on the Holocaust, 'Well, maybe we could save 20 percent of the Jewish people in Poland and Germany and get them out and we should be satisfied with that -- I'm not satisfied with that. I want the Holocaust ended."
But Warren, whose church attracts more than 20,000 people a week, has widely been recognized for his attempts to expand the evangelical movement beyond socially conservative issues.
In the 2008 election, Warren hosted Obama and Sen. John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, at a candidate forum held in his church.
His book "The Purpose Driven Life" has sold more than 20 million copies since it was first published five years ago, and Time magazine named him one of the 25 most influential evangelicals in 2005.
"Many believe that Warren ... is the successor to the [Rev. Billy Graham] for the role of America's minister," Time wrote in 2005.
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The homos need to realize that Obama is NOT in favor of gay marriage.
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The homos need to realize that Obama is NOT in favor of gay marriage.
They got thrown under the bus along with Rev. Wright.
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Obama is walking a tightrope trying to show some deference to the heterogeneous group of voters who put him in office
Here's an article where he explains his choice of Warren: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gWQ9YNgqijt-5ZQn2fGuX-RHxjPg
and another about plans to roll back some Bush era abortion rules:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/17/obama-team-reverse-bush-era-abortion-rules/
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Those poor little gay boys, don't they know it is metaly wrong. Why do you think we have a population in the world? because a man sticks his penis in a women not a man, if we were all gay you could say goodbye to the human race. The gays want this and that and adopt children, they only think of themselfs
what about the kids who have to grow up with gay parents? i'm sure they go thru hell in school and are made fun of and picked on. If things were to be that way God would have made Adam and Adam.
I'm sorry it's just not right, keep it to your selfs you poor little gay boy.
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The homos need to realize that Obama is NOT in favor of gay marriage.
but yet in his book, "the audaceity of hope" he proposes gay marriage and is very liberal an extreme lefist as you will.
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but yet in his book, "the audaceity of hope" he proposes gay marriage and is very liberal an extreme lefist as you will.
LOL he is a politician and many of his leftist views changed the moment he was elected president.
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Can't believe these fags decides to fight Obama on such a non-issue.
Don't they realize there are fights they would need his support on?
Or that they're making themselves looking like quite a bunch of drama queens?
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Mccain and palin would have done so much more for gay rights...
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Mccain and palin would have done so much more for gay rights...
What would they have done?
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What would they have done?
LET THEM GET THE FUCK MARRIED THATS WHAT,,,,,KINDA IRONIC TWIST AS YOU WILL EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA WERE EXTREME LEFIST OVER BUSH,,,BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY DIDNT KNOW ANY BETTER ONCE OBAMA GETS IN OFFICE HE WILL HIRE THE SAME BUSH FOLKS WHO GAVE BUSH THE INTELLIGENCE DURING HIS REIGN I OFFICE,,,WHOS YOU THAT BUSH WAS RIGHT EVEN THOUGH AMERICA THINKS HE IS WRONG,,
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LET THEM GET THE FUCK MARRIED THATS WHAT,,,,,KINDA IRONIC TWIST AS YOU WILL EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA WERE EXTREME LEFIST OVER BUSH,,,BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY DIDNT KNOW ANY BETTER ONCE OBAMA GETS IN OFFICE HE WILL HIRE THE SAME BUSH FOLKS WHO GAVE BUSH THE INTELLIGENCE DURING HIS REIGN I OFFICE,,,WHOS YOU THAT BUSH WAS RIGHT EVEN THOUGH AMERICA THINKS HE IS WRONG,,
Are you Derek Anthony? :-\
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Are you Derek Anthony? :-\
Well, he IS gh15. ;)
Maybe gh15 is Derek Anthony? ???
Can't believe these fags decides to fight Obama on such a non-issue.
Don't they realize there are fights they would need his support on?
Or that they're making themselves looking like quite a bunch of drama queens?
SPOT ON. ;)
Warren is not some hateful Jerry Falwell type. The left-wing and the homo supporters need to calm the fuck down. Many of the homos supported Hillary Clinton. Guess what? She did not support gay marriage either. These people claiming to be outraged are being hypocrites.
Warren has only written one of the best selling books in the history of the universe...its not like he has a constituency or anything. ::) The man has views outside of homo marriage...like on issues of hunger and helping the poor, things the Bible mentions more than virtually anything else. Obama is a Christian as is Warren, and there is common ground.
I don't agree with Rev. Warren on everything (abortion), but he is a good man. All he is going to do is give a 2-3 minute prayer asking God to bless this nation and our new president and then sit down.
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Warren is not some hateful Jerry Falwell type. The left-wing and the homo supporters need to calm the fuck down. Many of the homos supported Hillary Clinton. Guess what? She did not support gay marriage either. These people claiming to be outraged are being hypocrites.
Warren has only written one of the best selling books in the history of the universe...its not like he has a constituency or anything. ::) The man has views outside of homo marriage...like on issues of hunger and helping the poor, things the Bible mentions more than virtually anything else. Obama is a Christian as is Warren, and there is common ground.
I don't agree with Rev. Warren on everything (abortion), but he is a good man. All he is going to do is give a 2-3 minute prayer asking God to bless this nation and our new president and then sit down.
well put
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well put
With the gays its all or nothing. They will turn on Obama in a second unless he comes out 100000000% in favor of gay marriage.
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With the gays its all or nothing. They will turn on Obama in a second unless he comes out 100000000% in favor of gay marriage.
The Gay lobby is one of the strongest and smartest in the world.
Only bested by the oil lobby IMO.
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The Gay lobby is one of the strongest and smartest in the world.
Only bested by the oil lobby IMO.
The gays are overplaying their hand in this.
They are mostly a bunch of fags.
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Tough shit. Good move by Obama. Warren is one of the least offensive religious leaders in the nation.
I am supportive of gay unions and treating gay Americans just like any other American but marriage is clearly defined as an institution between a man and a woman and the majority of Americans agree. Gay unions provide them with very similar benefits anyway.
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Well, he IS gh15. ;)
Maybe gh15 is Derek Anthony? ???
SPOT ON. ;)
Warren is not some hateful Jerry Falwell type. The left-wing and the homo supporters need to calm the fuck down. Many of the homos supported Hillary Clinton. Guess what? She did not support gay marriage either. These people claiming to be outraged are being hypocrites.
Warren has only written one of the best selling books in the history of the universe...its not like he has a constituency or anything. ::) The man has views outside of homo marriage...like on issues of hunger and helping the poor, things the Bible mentions more than virtually anything else. Obama is a Christian as is Warren, and there is common ground.
I don't agree with Rev. Warren on everything (abortion), but he is a good man. All he is going to do is give a 2-3 minute prayer asking God to bless this nation and our new president and then sit down.
He may not be as bad as Falwell but he's still a Grade A Moron for equating homosexuality with pedaphilia and beastiliaty.
Still I guess Obama needs someone to appeal to the large number of his moronic followers
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The Gay lobby is one of the strongest and smartest in the world.
Only bested by the oil lobby IMO.
There isn't a lobby in America stronger and more focused on their agenda than AIPAC. ;) After that, you have the NRA, and then many others.
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Mccain and palin would have done so much more for gay rights...
BullShit on that, Gays should keep their dirty asses in the closet where they belong.
They should be happy the Goverment dosen't kill'em, if their not happy with the rights they have now
then let them all move to IRAN and see how they like the GAY rights there.
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The homos need to realize that Obama is NOT in favor of gay marriage.
Yes he is.
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Well, he IS gh15. ;)
Maybe gh15 is Derek Anthony? ???
SPOT ON. ;)
Warren is not some hateful Jerry Falwell type. The left-wing and the homo supporters need to calm the fuck down. Many of the homos supported Hillary Clinton. Guess what? She did not support gay marriage either. These people claiming to be outraged are being hypocrites.
Warren has only written one of the best selling books in the history of the universe...its not like he has a constituency or anything. ::) The man has views outside of homo marriage...like on issues of hunger and helping the poor, things the Bible mentions more than virtually anything else. Obama is a Christian as is Warren, and there is common ground.
I don't agree with Rev. Warren on everything (abortion), but he is a good man. All he is going to do is give a 2-3 minute prayer asking God to bless this nation and our new president and then sit down.
I agree. :o
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BullShit on that, Gays should keep their dirty asses in the closet where they belong.
They should be happy the Goverment dosen't kill'em, if their not happy with the rights they have now
then let them all move to IRAN and see how they like the GAY rights there.
Does gay porn make your thingy hard.
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Does gay porn make your thingy hard.
LOL, i'll let you know next time i watch it. And if i do watch it please cut my thingy off.
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Yes he is.
I watched the VP debate, and according to Biden, neither he nor Obama supports gay marriage.
They were however in favor of civil unions and gay rights in general.
Side note:
I think Sarah Palin said she had a friend who was gay and that she didn't thought any worse of him for it.
I recall seeing Obama saying something similar as well.
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I watched the VP debate, and according to Biden, neither he nor Obama supports gay marriage.
They were however in favor of civil unions and gay rights in general.
Side note:
I think Sarah Palin said she had a friend who was gay and that she didn't thought any worse of him for it.
I recall seeing Obama saying something similar as well.
ha ha ha someone needs to go buy obamas book,,,,,
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I watched the VP debate, and according to Biden, neither he nor Obama supports gay marriage.
They were however in favor of civil unions and gay rights in general.
Side note:
I think Sarah Palin said she had a friend who was gay and that she didn't thought any worse of him for it.
I recall seeing Obama saying something similar as well.
Both Obama and Biden have been trying to pander to both sides of the issue. They both said they support traditional marriage, but they oppose the attempts by states to preserve traditional marriage. Obama also tried to say the Bible supports homosexual marriage:
Obama: Sermon on Mount OKs Same-Sex Unions
Monday, March 3, 2008 8:04 AM
By: Terence P. Jeffrey
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) told a crowd at Hocking College in Nelsonville, Ohio, Sunday that he believes the Sermon on the Mount justifies his support for legal recognition of same-sex unions. He also told the crowd that his position in favor of legalized abortion does not make him "less Christian."
"I don't think it [a same-sex union] should be called marriage, but I think that it is a legal right that they should have that is recognized by the state," said Obama. "If people find that controversial then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans." (See video here) St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans condemns homosexual acts as unnatural and sinful.
Obama's mention of the Sermon on the Mount in justifying legal recognition of same-sex unions may have been a reference to the Golden Rule: "Do to others what you would have them do to you." Or it may have been a reference to another famous line: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
The Sermon, recorded in the Gospel of Matthew, includes the Lord's Prayer, the Beatitudes, an endorsement of scriptural moral commandments ("anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven"), and condemnations of murder, divorce and adultery. It also includes a warning: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
The passage from St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans, which Obama dismissed as "obscure," discusses people who knew God but turned against him.
"They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised," wrote St. Paul. "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
On the topic of abortion, Obama said his support for keeping it legal does not trespass on his Christian faith.
"I think that the bottom line is that in the end, I think women, in consultation with their pastors, and their doctors, and their family, are in a better position to make these decisions than some bureaucrat in Washington. That's my view," Obama said about abortion. "Again, I respect people who may disagree, but I certainly don't think it makes me less Christian. Okay."
Obama opened his town-hall-type meeting at the college with a short speech and then provided lengthy answers to a handful of questions. One questioner, Leon Forte, a Protestant clergyman, asked Obama about evangelical Christians who were concerned about his position on issues that conservatives consider "litmus tests."
"Your campaign sets a quandary for most evangelical Christians because I believe that they believe in the social agenda that you have, but they have a problem in what the conservatives have laid out as the moral litmus tests as to who is worthy and who is not," said Forte. "So, I will ask you to speak to those two questions."(See transcript)
Obama volunteered that he believed Forte was talking about abortion and homosexual marriage, and then he gave answers on both issues that were not as explicit as positions he has staked out on these issues in other venues. Last Thursday, for example, as reported by Cybercast News Service, Obama published on his Web site an "open letter concerning LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) equality in America."
In that letter, Obama said he favored same-sex unions that were equal to marriage--including adoption rights--and that he was open to states codifying same-sex marriages.
"As your President, I will use the bully pulpit to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws," Obama said in the letter. "I personally believe that civil unions represent the best way to secure that equal treatment. But I also believe that the federal government should not stand in the way of states that want to decide on their own how best to pursue equality for gay and lesbian couples--whether that means a domestic partnership, a civil union, or a civil marriage."
In Ohio on Sunday, before mentioning the Sermon on the Mount, Obama insisted he was against "gay marriage" and did not mention his support for allowing same-sex couples to adopt children and have the same "family" status as heterosexual couples.
"I will tell you that I don't believe in gay marriage, but I do think that people who are gay and lesbian should be treated with dignity and respect and that the state should not discriminate against them," said Obama on Sunday. "So, I believe in civil unions that allow a same-sex couple to visit each other in a hospital or transfer property to each other. I don't think it should be called marriage, but I think that it is a legal right that they should have that is recognized by the state. If people find that controversial then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans. That's my view."
Obama also has been more aggressive in framing his pro-abortion position previously than he was on Sunday. When he was in the Illinois Senate, for example, he repeatedly opposed a bill that would have defined as a "person" a baby who had survived an induced-labor abortion and was born alive.
In a 2001 Illinois Senate floor speech about that bill, he argued that to call a baby who survived an abortion a "person" would give it equal protection rights under the 14th Amendment and would give credibility to the argument that the same child inside its mother's womb was also a "person" and thus could not be aborted.
When the Illinois Senate bill was amended to make it identical to a federal law that included language to protect Roe v. Wade--and that the U.S. Senate voted unanimously to pass--Obama still opposed the bill, voting it down in the Illinois Senate committee he chaired.
Yet, in Ohio on Sunday, Obama depicted abortion as a tragedy to be avoided, while being kept legal.
"On the issue of abortion, that is always a tragic and painful issue," he said. "I think it is always tragic, and we should prevent it as much as possible .... But I think that the bottom line is that in the end, I think women, in consultation with their pastors, and their doctors, and their family, are in a better position to make these decisions than some bureaucrat in Washington. That's my view. Again, I respect people who may disagree, but I certainly don't think it makes me less Christian. Okay."
Before discussing his views on same-sex unions and abortion, Obama told the crowd he was a "devout Christian."
"In terms of my faith, there has been so much confusion that has been deliberately perpetrated through emails and so forth, so here are the simple facts," he said. "I am a Christian. I am a devout Christian. I have been a member of the same church for 20 years, pray to Jesus every night, and try to go to church as much as I can when they are not working me. Used to go quite often.
"These days, we haven't been at the home church--I haven't been home on Sunday--for several months now. So, my faith is important to me. It is not something that I try to push on other people. But it is something that helps to guide my life and my values."
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From Sarah Posner (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081229/posner) at The Nation
"Warren protests that he's not a homophobe; it's just that two dudes marrying, in his mind, is indistinguishable from an adult marrying a child, a brother marrying his sister, or polygamy. He thinks his AIDS relief efforts represent an elevated form of Christianity over those non-evangelical do-gooders whom he compares to "Marxists" because they're more interested in good works than salvation. The rejection of the "social justice" gospel in favor of the salvation-focused evangelicalism that has come to dominate the definition of "Christian" lies at the heart of the religious right agenda to marginalize liberalism and harness its political power.
Warren represents the absolute worst of the Democrats' religious outreach, a right-winger masquerading as a do-gooder anointed as the arbiter of what it means to be faithful. Obama's religious outreach was intended, supposedly, to make religious voters more comfortable with him and feel included in the Democratic Party. But that outreach now has come at the expense of other people's comfort and inclusion, at an event meant to mark a turning point away from divisive politics."
and Paul Jenkins (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-jenkins/mr-obama-disagrees_b_152382.html) at HuffPo
"You can disagree about the propriety of the auto industry bailout. You can disagree about free trade. You can disagree about a lot of things. But when you say gay people are pedophiles and rapists, that is not a simple disagreement: it is a stupid, hateful position that, say, a President-elect should stay miles away from.
Barack Obama's choice of Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration is dreadful. His explanation is, if possible, even worse. He shrinks Warren's grotesque comparisons down to a "disagreement," as if we were talking about ethanol subsidies. But we are not. In fact, we are not even talking about marriage rights, we are talking about demonizing an entire group of Americans for the purpose of religious indoctrination, political gain and financial profit. Or doing so out of sheer hatred and idiocy. Or both."
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Yes he is.
We've had this discussion before, and I have already shown you to be wrong.
You are a moron.
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ha ha ha someone needs to go buy obamas book,,,,,
You've obviously never read it, jackass. ::)
Yes he is.
I submit to you, Exhibit A, B, and C:
Barack Obama on Gay Marriage
Barack Obama on same-sex marriage
Obama states, I HAVE NOT SAID THAT I AM A SUPPORTER OF GAY MARRIAGE, BUT I AM A STRONG SUPPORTER OF CIVIL UNIONS...
Barack Obama on Gay Marriage
Obama states, I BELIEVE MARRIAGE IS A UNION BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN...
Obama states, I DO NOT SUPPORT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, BUT I DO BELIEVE IN CIVIL UNIONS...
Case closed. Class dismissed! ;)
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A lil' bonus from Vice President-Elect Joe Biden. ;)
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:-*
The Gay Marriage Sermon On The Mount
At a March 2 question-and-answer session in Ohio, Barack Obama suggested that opponents of civil unions of gays should re-read the "Sermon On The Mount." Say what? (Footage from WTAP-TV in Parkersburg, W.Va.)
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Those poor little gay boys, don't they know it is metaly wrong. Why do you think we have a population in the world? because a man sticks his penis in a women not a man, if we were all gay you could say goodbye to the human race. The gays want this and that and adopt children, they only think of themselfs
what about the kids who have to grow up with gay parents? i'm sure they go thru hell in school and are made fun of and picked on. If things were to be that way God would have made Adam and Adam.
I'm sorry it's just not right, keep it to your selfs you poor little gay boy.
and stay in your garbage shit hole 3rd world cuntry
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Those poor little gay boys, don't they know it is metaly wrong. Why do you think we have a population in the world? because a man sticks his penis in a women not a man, if we were all gay you could say goodbye to the human race. The gays want this and that and adopt children, they only think of themselfs
what about the kids who have to grow up with gay parents? i'm sure they go thru hell in school and are made fun of and picked on. If things were to be that way God would have made Adam and Adam.
I'm sorry it's just not right, keep it to your selfs you poor little gay boy.
Your grammar is worse then mine, that is saying alot. You also make some great points about adam and adam. But then again, god knows the future so he knew what gays would be doing..... wait this isn't making any sense. Jesus loves you, all those gay animals should repent.
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Just because one man has anal sex with another man, that does not make him gay.
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Just because one man has anal sex with another man, that does not make him gay.
LOL
Keep telling yourself that, Bobo.
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Let's review here.
1. Obama believes the Bible endorses homosexual relationships, which he believes should be viewed precisely like marriage, but just not called "marriage": "I don't think it [a same-sex union] should be called marriage, but I think that it is a legal right that they should have that is recognized by the state," said Obama. "If people find that controversial then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans."
2. Obama "respects" the California Supreme Court decision that overturned the will of the people that reserved marriage between one man and one woman.
3. Obama opposed proposition 8, which reserves marriage to one man and one woman.
4. Obama opposes the Defense of Marriage Act, which does not require states to recognize homosexual marriages performed in another state.
So, he doesn't want the federal government to put limits on the recognition of homosexual marriage, he doesn't want people in the states to vote on limiting homosexual marriage, but he has no problem with four judges redefining marriage to include homosexual marriage.
No, he doesn't support homosexual marriage. ::)
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Bump for Benny, even though he doesn't post on the board anymore. :)
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Bump.
You've obviously never read it, jackass. ::)
I submit to you, Exhibit A, B, and C:
Barack Obama on Gay Marriage
Barack Obama on same-sex marriage
Obama states, I HAVE NOT SAID THAT I AM A SUPPORTER OF GAY MARRIAGE, BUT I AM A STRONG SUPPORTER OF CIVIL UNIONS...
Barack Obama on Gay Marriage
Obama states, I BELIEVE MARRIAGE IS A UNION BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN...
Obama states, I DO NOT SUPPORT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, BUT I DO BELIEVE IN CIVIL UNIONS...
Case closed. Class dismissed! ;)
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Ask Benny if he wants any Grey Poupon to go with that foot of his.
I guess with all this "evolution", it wouldn't quite be complete without......
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Ask Benny if he wants any Grey Poupon to go with that foot of his.
I guess with all this "evolution", it wouldn't quite be complete without......
;D >:(.
;D.