Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Balloon on December 20, 2008, 09:48:04 AM
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In your opinion, taking "rest" out of the equation....give a percentage to diet and training....
How important are these two factors in your bodybulding quest...
For me, Diet 70% at LEAST.
My gains always come when i pay attention to macronutrient ratios and meal timing.
I have gone months training with high intensity, and seen no change in my body, then i pay attention to diet...
the gains start coming.
It's my belief that food is the best way to alter my physique
So for me 70% diet 30% training
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85% diet.
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Im finding it to be 70/30 or greater as well. Little dietary changes have made big improvements for me as I march on to the Ron Avidan Classic IV title.
Jason
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both are equally important
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i think there should be more emphasis on training then diet after years of natural training.
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diet is at least 70 percent of he equation
especially if you are natural
genetics aside if you eat like shit you will look like shit
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I would say diet at 70 or 80%.
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diet = 75
training = 25
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you need both. so i guess 50/50. if one is lacking it doesn't matter how good you're at the other.
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diet - 40
gear - 40
lifting - 20
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diet - 40
gear - 40
lifting - 20
you still here twink
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80-90% training
i've never seen anyone who ate well but trained like a sissy with a good physique
likewise i've seen people who ate crap but trained balls to the wall develop impressively
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you still here twink
hahahahahahaha stalking me from thread to thread all over getbig ;D
i must really have owned you bad to have created this stalking monster.
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hahahahahahaha stalking me from thread to thread all over getbig ;D
i must really have owned you bad to have created this stalking monster.
hahahaha meltdown
you haven't recovered
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80-90% training
i've never seen anyone who ate well but trained like a sissy with a good physique
likewise i've seen people who ate crap but trained balls to the wall develop impressively
i think mostly it's bullshit. they just like to give a shine of eating like crap. like Meso for example.
if they do eat crap and still look impressive they are on gear.
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yeah diet is overrated in bodybuilding also, how often you dont see guys who look great but never heard of eating protein.
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yeah diet is overrated in bodybuilding also, how often you dont see guys who look great but never heard of eating protein.
never.
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Diet is everything ... the training only provides a stimulus. You can just go to the gym and lift whatever with no rules or order and complete disregard for form and rep schemes even chat between sets , but if you got the genetics, tight diet and hormones you WILL grow. I'll go on a diet and hormones and pic exercises and musclegroups 3 times a week by shooting darts blindfolded and will GUARRANTEE you that I'll look 10 x better than someone who eats like shit.
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i always have a laugh when i see these stupid diets in flex, now i eat like normal people do and still maintain weight and make progress, without the monster protein intake and these shitty supplements.
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Diet is everything ... the training only provides a stimulus. You can just go to the gym and lift whatever with no rules or order and complete disregard for form and rep schemes even chat between sets , but if you got the genetics, tight diet and hormones you WILL grow. I'll go on a diet and hormones and pic exercises and musclegroups 3 times a week by shooting darts blindfolded and will GUARRANTEE you that I'll look 10 x better than someone who eats like shit.
i agree with everything apart from the genetics part as i believe that has 0% influence.
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No genetics = no body building
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No drugs = no body building
fixed 8)
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I'll go with 75% diet and 25% training. As long as your clean. Step on the gas and everything changes.
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Haha. Diet 80-90%? Just take a look at any jail. There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit. But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part. So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training. In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition. You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle. But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc. The body is one big filter. Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs. Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money. They came about through high drug use.
Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly. Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc. You telling me they aren't going to grow? Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery. They won't build shit as far as muscle. If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.
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Haha. Diet 80-90%? Just take a look at any jail. There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit. But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part. So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training. In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition.
:D
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Haha. Diet 80-90%? Just take a look at any jail. There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit. But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part. So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training. In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition. You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle. But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc. The body is one big filter. Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs. Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money. They came about through high drug use.
Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly. Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc. You telling me they aren't going to grow? Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery. They won't build shit as far as muscle. If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.
word
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i always have a laugh when i see these stupid diets in flex, now i eat like normal people do and still maintain weight and make progress, without the monster protein intake and these shitty supplements.
i've done the same, with the same results.
yeah diet is overrated in bodybuilding also, how often you dont see guys who look great but never heard of eating protein.
very often. how about the bodybuilders of the 70s?
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you have to remember you need food to live, you don't need training.
so food > training.
also studies show muscle mass increases with eating above maintenence and no excercise with something like 1lb for every 2-3 lbs of fat.
add training the ratio could be reversed.
add drugs the ratio rapidly changes in favour of muscle mass to fat.
also the amount of calorie excess has an effect.
its all about the variables.
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Haha. Diet 80-90%? Just take a look at any jail. There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit. But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part. So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training. In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition. You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle. But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc. The body is one big filter. Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs. Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money. They came about through high drug use.
Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly. Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc. You telling me they aren't going to grow? Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery. They won't build shit as far as muscle. If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.
if anyone uses steroids it's weightlifting people in jails....
think about it... criminals, surrounded with drug dealing, fucked in the head....
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if anyone uses steroids it's weightlifting people in jails....
think about it... criminals, surrounded with drug dealing, fucked in the head....
Yeah because it's so easy to smuggle in syringes and vials right? ::)
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Yeah because it's so easy to smuggle in syringes and vials right? ::)
yes it is. besides there are orals.
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diet - 40
gear - 40
lifting - 20
ahahahahaha
ok lumpy...
you just never learn do you? you get anally abused for 21 pages in another thread for giving out advise when you look like a fat bag of shit, but yet you seem to think that your opinion in such matters still counts for something.
i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it does not.
judging from your pics i would say the key to your physique is a 5/5/90 split of driving to the gym but not going in, vince goodrum's bee pollen, and KFC.
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Haha. Diet 80-90%? Just take a look at any jail. There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit. But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part. So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training. In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition. You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle. But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc. The body is one big filter. Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs. Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money. They came about through high drug use.
Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly. Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc. You telling me they aren't going to grow? Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery. They won't build shit as far as muscle. If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.
recovery aspect = very good point (even though I'm not sure if prison is so stress-free...)
this year made me rethink this whole training vs diet topic. first and foremost it's a triangle: training, diet AND recovery need to be optimal. with plenty of recovery as a basis, I give more importance to diet than training (2/3ds).
sep+oct I was out of business (change of employer, non-competition clause). during that time I got a solid 10 hours of sleep daily. I did not change my training (intensity, frequency) nor my diet.
bloody hell: I was able to add some muscle and promptly all nagging pains and little injuries healed.
but I guess, 10 hours of sleep is the privilege of the pros only...
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you have to remember you need food to live, you don't need training.
so food > training.
also studies show muscle mass increases with eating above maintenence and no excercise with something like 1lb for every 2-3 lbs of fat.
add training the ratio could be reversed.
add drugs the ratio rapidly changes in favour of muscle mass to fat.
also the amount of calorie excess has an effect.
its all about the variables.
follow his advice.
it's obvious he knows what he's talking about.
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follow his advice.
it's obvious he knows what he's talking about.
you're right, i have nothing on you ::)
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Diet can never be more than 50%. To be exact, when it comes to building muscle, you need good genetics (although anyone can improve on their shape with proper discipline and consistency), sound training principles, adequate dietary intake of all the necessary nutrients and a proper mindset. Diet plays a big role only when you are trying to achieve contest conditioning. Otherwise, as long as you take sufficient number of calories and macronutrients, especially protein, you will be OK - getting scientific and too exact about things like grams of protein per pound of body weight is a waste of time for the average person who is looking to put on some muscle and get a bit leaner.
Diet is never more than 50%. If you say that you won't build muscle without a proper diet, you are right, although you can't also build muscle with a great diet and lame training or piss poor genetics.
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Diet can never be more than 50%. To be exact, when it comes to building muscle, you need good genetics (although anyone can improve on their shape with proper discipline and consistency), sound training principles, adequate dietary intake of all the necessary nutrients and a proper mindset. Diet plays a big role only when you are trying to achieve contest conditioning. Otherwise, as long as you take sufficient number of calories and macronutrients, especially protein, you will be OK - getting scientific and too exact about things like grams of protein per pound of body weight is a waste of time for the average person who is looking to put on some muscle and get a bit leaner.
Diet is never more than 50%. If you say that you won't build muscle without a proper diet, you are right, although you can't also build muscle with a great diet and lame training or piss poor genetics.
there was a study posted here a while ago that showed any calories above maintenence builds muscle and protein was irrelevant :o i'll try to find it if anyones interested.
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there was a study posted here a while ago that showed any calories above maintenence builds muscle and protein was irrelevant :o i'll try to find it if anyones interested.
Forget about studies - there are tons of them out there and a lot of them contradict each other. I'm talking based on personal experience and analysis. Protein isn't irrelevant, but you don't need to take 500 grams or more, unless you are a monster who is around 300 lb at less than 15% bodyfat, like Dorian or Ronnie at their peaks. As long as you take over 1.5 grams / pound of body weight, you will be fine. And yes, if you take enough calories, your body won't need to use protein as a fuel cause it will use carbs and to a lesser extent, fat.
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Forget about studies - there are tons of them out there and a lot of them contradict each other. I'm talking based on personal experience and analysis. Protein isn't irrelevant, but you don't need to take 500 grams or more, unless you are a monster who is around 300 lb at less than 15% bodyfat, like Dorian or Ronnie at their peaks. As long as you take over 1.5 grams / pound of body weight, you will be fine. And yes, if you take enough calories, your body won't need to use protein as a fuel cause it will use carbs and to a lesser extent, fat.
haha ok "kiwiol" ::)
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haha ok "kiwiol" ::)
Haha where have you been Jimmy? Good to see you back 8)
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Forget about studies - there are tons of them out there and a lot of them contradict each other. I'm talking based on personal experience and analysis. Protein isn't irrelevant, but you don't need to take 500 grams or more, unless you are a monster who is around 300 lb at less than 15% bodyfat, like Dorian or Ronnie at their peaks. As long as you take over 1.5 grams / pound of body weight, you will be fine. And yes, if you take enough calories, your body won't need to use protein as a fuel cause it will use carbs and to a lesser extent, fat.
::)
please re-read what i typed - during calorie excess protein is irrelevant for muscle mass gains - the study showed there was more muscle gain with the lower protein level :o
you seem to be mistaking me for one of getbigs mindless majority, please don't it hurts my feelings.
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Haha where have you been Jimmy? Good to see you back 8)
you as well...........hows everything my friend?
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you as well...........hows everything my friend?
he's doing great, got a new batch of test and has been hitting the iron hard 8)
heres that study for anyone interested:
Effects of high-calorie supplements on body composition and muscular strength following resistance training.
Seventy-three healthy, male subjects randomly divided into 3 groups participated in a study to determine the effects of 2 high-calorie nutritional supplements on body composition, body segment circumferences, and muscular strength following a resistance-training (RT) program. METHODS: In addition to their normal diets group 1 (CHO/PRO; n=26) consumed a 8.4 Mj x day(-1) (2010 kcal) high calorie, high protein supplement containing 356 g carbohydrate and 106 g protein. Group 2 (CHO; n=25) consumed a carbohydrate supplement that was isocaloric with CHO/PRO. Group 3 (CTRL; n=22) received no supplement and served as a control. All subjects were placed on a 4-day x week(-1) RT program for 8 weeks. RESULTS: Dietary analysis revealed no significant differences in total energy consumption or nutrients at any time in the non-supplemented diets of the 3 groups. Significant (p= or <0.05) increases in body mass (BM) and fat-free mass (FFM) were observed in CHO/PRO and CHO compared to CTRL. Mean (+/- SD) increases in BM were 3.1+/-3.1 kg and 3.1+/-2.2 kg, respectively. Fat-free mass significantly (p= or <0.05) increased 2.9+/-3.4 kg in CHO/PRO and 3.4+/-2.5 kg in CHO. Muscular strength, as measured by a one-repetition maximum in the bench press, leg press, and lat-pull down increased significantly (p= or <0.05) in all groups. No significant differences in strength measures were observed among groups following training. CONCLUSIONS: Results indicate that high-calorie supplements are effective in increasing BM and FFM when combined with RT. However, once individual protein requirements are met, energy content of the diet has the largest effect on body composition.
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you as well...........hows everything my friend?
Not bad. Times have changed and I'm just going with the flow. I mainly troll the G&O now, cause it's not political like the alpha boards and there's a lot more posters and materials to work with. I remember when we were fighting guys like TomR, The Luke and the shadow - good times 8)
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Not bad. Times have changed and I'm just going with the flow. I mainly troll the G&O now, cause it's not political like the alpha boards and there's a lot more posters and materials to work with. I remember when we were fighting guys like TomR, The Luke and the shadow - good times 8)
haha yes fun shit.........should bring it back, this place needs it lately
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he's doing great, got a new batch of test
This is what I was talking about in the other thread. And dude, no offense, but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on anything that's related to training or nutrition ;D
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This is what I was talking about in the other thread. And dude, no offense, but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on anything that's related to training or nutrition ;D
;D at least you can take a joke, unlike some around here.
i would carry the training and nutrition boards, but there are 'some' knowledgeable people who do a good job already. havn't you read my posts ? ;D
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;D at least you can take a joke, unlike some around here.
i would carry the training and nutrition boards, but there are 'some' knowledgeable people who do a good job already. havn't you read my posts ? ;D
ok 'guru' ::)
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This is what I was talking about in the other thread. And dude, no offense, but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on anything that's related to training or nutrition ;D
ahahahahahaha
this simpleton thinks he knows all.
funny how his 'physique' really displays the wealth of knowledge he has amassed thru his years of vigorous training.
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;D at least you can take a joke, unlike some around here.
i would carry the training and nutrition boards, but there are 'some' knowledgeable people who do a good job already. havn't you read my posts ? ;D
No mate, I never read or post in those boards. Never have. I am not interested in discussing training and nutrition so much as I am in trolling and discussing competitive bodybuilding. I was into all that stuff back in the 90s and you really only need to find what works for you and stick with it. I'm yet to hit a plateau or slow down in gaining, not to mention I love working out and eating the way I do. So I don't really look into in depth discussions on those kind of topics.
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ahahahahahaha
this simpleton thinks he knows all.
funny how his 'physique' really displays the wealth of knowledge he has amassed thru his years of vigorous training.
hahahaha you're so dumb you heard the term pumping iron and you said you can't because you dont have a pump ::)
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No mate, I never read or post in those boards. Never have. I am not interested in discussing training and nutrition so much as I am in trolling and discussing competitive bodybuilding. I was into all that stuff back in the 90s and you really only need to find what works for you and stick with it. I'm yet to hit a plateau or slow down in gaining, not to mention I love working out and eating the way I do. So I don't really look into in depth discussions on those kind of topics.
cool, but surely there is room for slight improvement?
saying that, what you are doing is working. 8)
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i wasted years believing in the risks of overtraining and the predominant importance of diet.
At some point i reached a plateau. It was obvious i wasnt making any progresses believing in that crap, or at least that i wasnt working well for me.
I said, fuck it, im going to train more often my weakest bodyparts and dont care much about diet or rest anymore. THese weak spots will get hammered until they improve!
I focused on training each bodypart every 3/4 days and get two days of rest every 3 or 4 weeks.
Ive never made so quick progresses since. It worked like a charm and i wondered why i wasted so much time beliving in that "focus on diet /rest/ dont train too much" crap. Obviously, my muscles didnt need 5/6 or 7 days of rest before getting hammered again.
The funny is that i dont even eat more either, it's the oposite, i eat like a bird and sometimes even less than before, yet im making better progresses.
I guess it might depend from an indivual to another, but all in all its focusing on working out MORE often and with new techniques that got me past my plateau.
the more you train, the more chiseled muscle mass you grow, period.
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cool, but surely there is room for slight improvement?
For sure, but where do you draw the line? If I was competing and needed every edge I could get, maybe, but I just like lifting and looking strong. And to be honest, I've done my share of discussing it with people IRL as well as teaching people (clients of mine I was personal training while studying at Uni) and you just reach a stage where you've had enough of it, lol.
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hahahaha you're so dumb you heard the term pumping iron and you said you can't because you dont have a pump ::)
wow.
funny.
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wow.
funny.
not as funy as this
BOOOOM
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i wasted years believing in overtraining and the predominant importance of diet.
At some point i reached a plateau. It was obvious i wasnt making any progresses believing in that crap, or at least that i wasnt working well for me.
I said, fuck it, im going to train more often my weakest bodyparts and dont care much about diet or rest anymore. THese weak spots will get hammered until they improve!
I focused on training each bodypart every 3/4 days and get two days of rest every 3 or 4 weeks.
Ive never made so quick progresses since. It worked like a charm and i wondered why i wasted so much time beliving in that "focus on diet /rest/ dont train too much". Obviously, my muscles didnt need 5/6 or 7 days of rest before getting hammered again.
The funny is that i dont even eat more either, it's the oposite, i eat like a bird and sometimes even less than before, yet im making better progresses.
I guess it depends from an indivual to another, but all in all its focusing on working out MORE often and with new techniques that got me past my plateau.
science actually backs working out every 3 days as being optimal, so you its no surprise. 8)
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science actually backs working out every 3 days as being optimal, so you its no surprise. 8)
dear tuba player, here's a serious question for you...
how is it you claim to know so much about physiology and nutrition, but look the way you do?
i understand from previous posts that you had injured your rotator cuffs not allowing you to train, but did this debilitating injury cause you to eat yourself to the point of obesity?
just curious.
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dear tuba player, here's a serious question for you...
how is it you claim to know so much about physiology and nutrition, but look the way you do?
i understand from previous posts that you had injured your rotator cuffs not allowing you to train, but did this debilitating injury cause you to eat yourself to the point of obesity?
just curious.
hahahahaha still melting i see.
just because i own you about 100 times, theres no need to stalk me all over getbig. ;D
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hahahahaha still melting i see.
just because i own you about 100 times, theres no need to stalk me all over getbig. ;D
apparently from the pics dante posted of you, the only thing you own is a 56 inch waistline.
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apparently from the pics dante posted of you, the only thing you own is a 56 inch waistline.
wheres that pic big stuff?
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wheres that pic big stuff?
right here:
tell you what, tuba player...
i'll post a pic of myself tomorrow nite, taken tomorrow, if you do the same, according to the rules you have set down for doing so.
lets see just how much you look like the sage you claim to be, shall we, tubbo?
think you can get off that motorised cart you use for mobility long enough to snap a pic of that fine physique of yours, shamu?
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right here:
think you can get off that motorised cart you use for mobility long enough to snap a pic of that fine physique of yours, shamu?
look everyone on getbig knows you will never post a pic, why dop you insist on embarassing yourself further.
i have owned you on nutrition, training, life, getbig, being a man, etc etc
you are now stalking me from thread to thread, melting at every .
i'll tell you what, if you want to own me post 1 pic holding a sign that says i'm no one from getbig.
assuming you look better than me ? and that beach guy. ::)
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Your all wrong.
Genetics play a far larger role than training or diet.
I see guys who have shitty form, eat mcdonalds six days a week and burger king on the other day, but they have awesome genes, and look better than 99% of the people in the gym.
Why??? Because of GENETICS! ;D
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true ...I said that no genetics equals no bb
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In your opinion, taking "rest" out of the equation....give a percentage to diet and training....
How important are these two factors in your bodybulding quest...
For me, Diet 70% at LEAST.
My gains always come when i pay attention to macronutrient ratios and meal timing.
I have gone months training with high intensity, and seen no change in my body, then i pay attention to diet...
the gains start coming.
It's my belief that food is the best way to alter my physique
So for me 70% diet 30% training
drugs and respond to drugs ,, 80-90%
food and training ,,10-20%
you cant hold muscular 200+ at 5'9 or so at low bodyfat% or even high singlre digit with out hormones
if you have fakes from china you will never see a pro card up to 2000,,now days you got putnams and company so you can get a pro card even when you do it for the girls,,all a matter of how much shit you take and if legit pharma grade you will be able to pass by with a lot less and ofcourse avoid health problems
diet only helps when preping for competition,,even then todays bodybuilders that achived anything dont follow it stritly due to enourmous use of gh
with gh and the bellys you see around ..there is no need for strict diet,,look around you at the gym you can tell the gh users very fast because their tummy is always going 3 inch forward than their pecs,,
the use of trenbolone and gh with testosterone basically made the need of diet none existant during most of the year
thats bodybuilding for you 2008
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No matter how I eat the greatest progress I have seen is through hard training.
Just adding: If you give the body good stimulus and a reason to adapt, it will do it even with non optimal diet. This is my opinion. Other way around, lousy training and perfect diet, it won´t work.
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its a combination, if your diet is 100% spot on you wont create a single musclefiber with weak training.
I say its fifty-fifty.
For example you can eat just 3 meals a day, but if you do one 50 rep set standing calves with moderate (light) weight, they will grow, no question.
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ammmm...
If there is no Steroids then it will be as follows:
Diet: 75%
Training: 25%
With the help of Steroids it will be as follow:
Steroids: 80%
Diet: 15%
Training: 5%
And I stick to my mind because of what I see from my friends who are steroids users.
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In your opinion, taking "rest" out of the equation....give a percentage to diet and training....
How important are these two factors in your bodybulding quest...
For me, Diet 70% at LEAST.
My gains always come when i pay attention to macronutrient ratios and meal timing.
I have gone months training with high intensity, and seen no change in my body, then i pay attention to diet...
the gains start coming.
It's my belief that food is the best way to alter my physique
So for me 70% diet 30% training
Whilst I see what you're saying, it seems funny to say diet is more that 50%, since with diet alone you can't really put on muscle, you have to train for that to happen. Ronnie reckons training is more important, or at least his ghost writer does, I go with him. Plus I've found if you don't get stronger it's hard to make much progress.