Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:14:24 PM
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I'm leaning towards 'no.'
what do you guys think?
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for the love not this shit again...
yes its a sport, look up the definition of sport
why do you think its not?
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for the love not this shit again...
yes its a sport, look up the definition of sport
why do you think its not?
the main reason i lean towards 'no' is because as an opponent, you are not allowed to 'interact' or defend anything. shit, you can't even cough or clear your throat for that matter.
i consider it a skill, not a sport. webster might say otherwise, but there's my 2 cents anyway.
i cannot see john daly as an 'athlete.' he's won a couple majors.
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the main reason i lean towards 'no' is because as an opponent, you are not allowed to 'interact' or defend anything. shit, you can't even cough or clear your throat for that matter.
i consider it a skill, not a sport. webster might say otherwise, but there's my 2 cents anyway.
i cannot see john daly as an 'athlete.' he's won a couple majors.
Does Prince Fielder look like and athlete? How about Babe Ruth, or Glen Big Baby Davis? Bodybuilder look like athletes, but they have little to no athletic skill, and are pageant contestants. With Golf it's subjective, imo.
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Does Prince Fielder look like and athlete? How about Babe Ruth, or Glen Big Baby Davis? Bodybuilder look like athletes, but they have little to no athletic skill, and are pageant contestants. With Golf it's subjective, imo.
i see your point. sumo wrestlers dont exactly have an athletic 'look' but they definitely are athletes.
fielder isnt so bad, not worse than tony gwynn.
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the main reason i lean towards 'no' is because as an opponent, you are not allowed to 'interact' or defend anything. shit, you can't even cough or clear your throat for that matter.
i consider it a skill, not a sport. webster might say otherwise, but there's my 2 cents anyway.
i cannot see john daly as an 'athlete.' he's won a couple majors.
Yes Earl, it's a sport.
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Yes Earl, it's a sport.
sure
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the main reason i lean towards 'no' is because as an opponent, you are not allowed to 'interact' or defend anything. shit, you can't even cough or clear your throat for that matter.
i consider it a skill, not a sport. webster might say otherwise, but there's my 2 cents anyway.
i cannot see john daly as an 'athlete.' he's won a couple majors.
you cant directly interact in track and field either but that was part of the base of the olympics, swimming but apparently winning 8 gold medals in swimming is a great accomplishment. In every sport you will have ppl who dont look like atheletes, shaq is an over grown fat ass, big pappi = fat ass, the majority of offensive linemen in football that doesnt mean they arent athletic in their own right.
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I would say no. nothing they do is athletic what so ever.
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I would say no. nothing they do is athletic what so ever.
hahah clearly you have never drove a ball 300+ yds on a consistent basis
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golf and bodybuilding are both sports
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hahah clearly you have never drove a ball 300+ yds on a consistent basis
that does not support your stance on golfers being athletes. further more using pure distance of a drive as your argument to support that action as athletic is very limited. A guy can throw a football using the proper mechanics farther than an NFL QB, but that doesnt make him an athlete alone.
also let me re-phrase my first post on this thread; golf maybe a sport to some people, but golfers are not althetes. I know this thread questioned golf as a sport, the term athletes was not involved.
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When I lug my bag around and walk the course-yes
When I take a cart and drink a 12 pack-no
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that does not support your stance on golfers being athletes. further more using pure distance of a drive as your argument to support that action as athletic is very limited. A guy can throw a football using the proper mechanics farther than an NFL QB, but that doesnt make him an athlete alone.
also let me re-phrase my first post on this thread; golf maybe a sport to some people, but golfers are not althetes. I know this thread questioned golf as a sport, the term athletes was not involved.
what person do you know can throw a football as far as a pro qb? LOL
yes it is very limiting there are other factors to put into it, balance, strength, speed are just a few that go into every golf swing. Ill agree that its not a very athletic sport but to say you dont have to be athletic to play is ignorant especially at the highest level like tiger.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/athlete
athlete: A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
So yes they are athletes and yes it is a sport.
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what person do you know can throw a football as far as a pro qb? LOL
surely you do not think there are people out there who can not throw the ball farther or harder than Chad Pennington. are they then labled an athlete? this statement i made was to highlight the fact that solely driving a golf ball 300 yards does not qualify one an athlete as you did. nor does any other part of the golf game IMO.
yes it is very limiting there are other factors to put into it, balance, strength, speed are just a few that go into every golf swing. Ill agree that its not a very athletic sport but to say you dont have to be athletic to play is ignorant especially at the highest level like tiger.
the factors you mention are also applied in other contests like bowling, they are athletes i guess?
i know his name was brought up before but John Daly is not an athlete and he played at an elite level. as far as Tiger goes, nothing he has done on the golf course would lead me to include him in company of the other great athletes. He is certainly very great at what he does.
By including golfers in the category of "athlete" i assume you use the term very loosely.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/athlete
athlete: A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
So yes they are athletes and yes it is a sport.
every bowler should carry a card that has this printed on it
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surely you do not think there are people out there who can not throw the ball farther or harder than Chad Pennington. are they then labled an athlete? this statement i made was to highlight the fact that solely driving a golf ball 300 yards does not qualify one an athlete as you did. nor does any other part of the golf game IMO.
the factors you mention are also applied in other contests like bowling, they are athletes i guess?
I understand that as i can drive the ball 300+ yds but not every single time and i certainly cant place it wherever i want it and the same could be said for a person who might be able to throw a football as far as pennington...
i know his name was brought up before but John Daly is not an athlete and he played at an elite level. as far as Tiger goes, nothing he has done on the golf course would lead me to include him in company of the other great athletes. He is certainly very great at what he does.
By including golfers in the category of "athlete" i assume you use the term very loosely.
every bowler should carry a card that has this printed on it
LOL i used the term loosely? i used the term as it is defined 8)
Everybody brings up john daily but when you look at the majority of the elite golfers which by the way john daily is not they are in very good shape and
If you want to define it, then go ahead but then you cant apply it to a certain sport in general I wouldnt consider big pappi an athlete either would you?
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I understand that as i can drive the ball 300+ yds but not every single time and i certainly cant place it wherever i want it and the same could be said for a person who might be able to throw a football as far as pennington...
again only to argument your original rebuttal towards my statement; there are people out there who are not athletes that can consistently throw a football farther than Chad Pennington. He is a good qb though and an athlete.
Accomplishing something for distance only does not justify one as an athlete.
LOL i used the term loosely? i used the term as it is defined
everything is not as black and white as you see them. By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they all fall under the criteria you accept.
Everybody brings up john daily but when you look at the majority of the elite golfers which by the way john daily is not they are in very good shape and
Firstly;John Daly is brought up because he is not an athlete and a huge monkey wrench in your theory. And at one time in his career was an elite player of golf(you are aware of this im certain) and yet not an athlete under more critical terms.
Secondly; look at the majority of the elite golfers which by the way john daily is not they are in very good shape
it is possible to look like an athlete and not be one.
I wouldnt consider big pappi an athlete either would you?
you consider a John Daly or a Phil Mickleson an athlete but not Big Pappi? Big Pappi does things that most people who "look" like athletes can not come close to doing.
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golf and bodybuilding are both sports
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Earl, my man, you are mistaken! If you remove the word bodybuilding from your statement, and also the letter s from the word sports, you are 100% correct ;)
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alright in the hopes of not creating novel sized post i wont quote everything
Ive had this arguement so many times its retarded the same thing with golf being a sport
Define athlete for me i mean what your definition is of an athlete...dollars to donuts some of the ppl you think of as athletes wouldnt be considered athletes by your definition...and we will go back to the original definition of athlete.
my point was that if you dont consider john daly a athlete then you cant consider big pappi an athlete.
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bodybuilding is not a sport. the end
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Yes, Golf is a sport.
I like golf. I'm pretty average, but damn it, i try!! ;D
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not to get off track but just curious whats an average score for the golfing getbigger?
ive gotten down to mid to high 80's but would probably be in the high 90's now.
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alright in the hopes of not creating novel sized post i wont quote everything
Ive had this arguement so many times its retarded the same thing with golf being a sport
Define athlete for me i mean what your definition is of an athlete...dollars to donuts some of the ppl you think of as athletes wouldnt be considered athletes by your definition...and we will go back to the original definition of athlete.
my point was that if you dont consider john daly a athlete then you cant consider big pappi an athlete.
I consider Daly an athlete and I understand that looking like an athlete can (at times) have little to do with how good of an a person is. Thats the problem with bb's and bodybuilding. It's all based on looks (pageant), and they cant get over that a pudgy dude could be a world class athlete. Not a single pro bb could make it any level of pro sports. Shit, most hs athletes would tool on them.
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How could golf not be considered a sport?
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How could golf not be considered a sport?
People claim it doesn't really require any athletic ability.
I can agree with this, sort of. My grandfather is 86 and plays golf a couple of times a week.....
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alright in the hopes of not creating novel sized post i wont quote everything
Ive had this arguement so many times its retarded the same thing with golf being a sport
Define athlete for me i mean what your definition is of an athlete...dollars to donuts some of the ppl you think of as athletes wouldnt be considered athletes by your definition...and we will go back to the original definition of athlete.
my point was that if you dont consider john daly a athlete then you cant consider big pappi an athlete.
my firm stance is that golf maybe a sport but i dont consider golfers athletes.
since youre using the term athlete in a very liberal sense you may have an argument. but placing an elite golfer in the company of the Bruce Jenners, M. Westbrooks, Allen Iversons and Tony Gwyns of the world is a travesty.
A golfer may perform on the same level of dominance as the great athletes like Ali,Bird, Jordan, Montana and Elways but i would not consider him to be in the same athletic category.
the term athlete is subjective and goes far beyond your "Websters definition" of an athlete.
I do consider Pappi an athlete and not Daly or Mickleson. Tiger.. who knows ive never seen him do anything i would consider truly athletic, is he a dominant competitor..absolutely.
and i'll repost this for you, if you care to answer By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.
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People claim it doesn't really require any athletic ability.
I can agree with this, sort of. My grandfather is 86 and plays golf a couple of times a week.....
Neither does pushing people around and running with a ball. However to play football as well as golf at the professional level takes athletic ability.
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Neither does pushing people around and running with a ball. However to play football as well as golf at the professional level takes athletic ability.
so people who play football on a high school level are not athletes?
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my firm stance is that golf maybe a sport but i dont consider golfers athletes.
since youre using the term athlete in a very liberal sense you may have an argument. but placing an elite golfer in the company of the Bruce Jenners, M. Westbrooks, Allen Iversons and Tony Gwyns of the world is a travesty.
A golfer may perform on the same level of dominance as the great athletes like Ali,Bird, Jordan, Montana and Elways but i would not consider him to be in the same athletic category.
the term athlete is subjective and goes far beyond your "Websters definition" of an athlete.
I do consider Pappi an athlete and not Daly or Mickleson. Tiger.. who knows ive never seen him do anything i would consider truly athletic, is he a dominant competitor..absolutely.
and i'll repost this for you, if you care to answer By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.
Bowlers, yes. Marching band takes an ability for being a musician, so no. Body building being an athletic sport is debatable.
Golfers/bowlers are just a different type of athlete. Therr profession takes speed, timing, and coordination. While other sports take those i mentioned and brute force and strength.
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so people who play football on a high school level are not athletes?
No not saying that at all. My point is, your grandfather could catch a football right? So by the logic you used to say that golf isn't a sport because your grandfather plays it can be applied to football because he could catch one and throw one.
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my firm stance is that golf maybe a sport but i dont consider golfers athletes.
since youre using the term athlete in a very liberal sense you may have an argument. but placing an elite golfer in the company of the Bruce Jenners, M. Westbrooks, Allen Iversons and Tony Gwyns of the world is a travesty.
A golfer may perform on the same level of dominance as the great athletes like Ali,Bird, Jordan, Montana and Elways but i would not consider him to be in the same athletic category.
the term athlete is subjective and goes far beyond your "Websters definition" of an athlete.
I do consider Pappi an athlete and not Daly or Mickleson. Tiger.. who knows ive never seen him do anything i would consider truly athletic, is he a dominant competitor..absolutely.
and i'll repost this for you, if you care to answer By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.
No where in here did you answer me to what you believe the definition of an athlete is. only that you consider some to be athletes and others not to be, i understand that some ppl have more athletic ability than others but that doesnt mean the other who have less arent athletes by the way you have explained it. So again plz subjectively define athlete for me again dollars to donuts you will exclude some of the ppl you believe are athletes and include some who you think arent.
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Neither does pushing people around and running with a ball. However to play football as well as golf at the professional level takes athletic ability.
I don't see any 80 year olds playing football.
Playing football at a highschool level requires more athletic ability than Golf does at the highest level.
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I don't see any 80 year olds playing football.
Playing football at a highschool level requires more athletic ability than Golf does at the highest level.
But they are different sports. 80 year olds could play football, but the hospitals couldn't keep up. But as for the timing speed and coordination aspects of football they could do it like they do golf.
So that might lead us to the question: Does the definition of an activity being a sport require a degree of brute force and strength?
I personally think, Football is "more" of a sport than golf and Basket ball is "more" of a sport than football.
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No where in here did you answer me to what you believe the definition of an athlete is. only that you consider some to be athletes and others not to be, i understand that some ppl have more athletic ability than others but that doesnt mean the other who have less arent athletes by the way you have explained it. So again plz subjectively define athlete for me again dollars to donuts you will exclude some of the ppl you believe are athletes and include some who you think arent.
i think i get the gist of what you are trying to say. please dont play the "i wont answer you question until you answer mine" because i asked you By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.
long before you asked me to define my perspective of an athlete, check the thread. but i'll go ahead and answer your question anyway.
My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level. There you go have at it.
So just because my aunt can catch and throw a football does not make her an athlete. Someone bench pressing 500 lbs. is not an athlete, i know this will offend many here (the strongmen on espn are athletes) Shuffle Board players are not athletes.
can you now answer my question..see the bold typed above.
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i think i get the gist of what you are trying to say. please dont play the "i wont answer you question until you answer mine" because i asked you long before you asked me to define my perspective of an athlete, check the thread. but i'll go ahead and answer your question anyway.
My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level. There you go have at it.
So just because my aunt can catch and throw a football does not make her an athlete. Someone bench pressing 500 lbs. is not an athlete, i know this will offend many here (the strongmen on espn are athletes) Shuffle Board players are not athletes.
can you now answer my question..see the bold typed above.
sorry i got a little overzealous, not meaning to be a dick
Yes though by definition they are this is the problem and ill show a flaw in your definition and in really any definition for that matter.
"My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level."
golfers by your definition are athletes, they walk 18 holes (cardiovascular), have to hit a small ball 300+ yds at times (speed and strength), have to be able to shape the ball flight to fit the shot and place it with pin point accuracy (coordination and agility) and with the best players in the world(performance level).
I like how you tried to throw performance level and cardio in there but again as you can see they are still considered athletes, shit john daly probably gets really winded walking from time to time does that make him more of an athlete? hahah j/k
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sorry i got a little overzealous, not meaning to be a dick
Yes though by definition they are this is the problem and ill show a flaw in your definition and in really any definition for that matter.
"My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level."
golfers by your definition are athletes, they walk 18 holes (cardiovascular), have to hit a small ball 300+ yds at times (speed and strength), have to be able to shape the ball flight to fit the shot and place it with pin point accuracy (coordination and agility) and with the best players in the world(performance level).
I like how you tried to throw performance level and cardio in there but again as you can see they are still considered athletes, shit john daly probably gets really winded walking from time to time does that make him more of an athlete? hahah j/k
i know youre not trying to be a dick, neither am i.
I knew you would use cardiovascular capacity and relate it walking the 18 holes, but in all honestly walking is one of the lowest levels of cardiovascular capacity there is. Most people are capable of doing that.
i would think you'd have to be in some type of shape to be considered an athlete above the Mickelson and Daly level.
and by performance level i was dismissing the "grandpa could throw and catch therefore he is an athlete" counter.
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i know youre not trying to be a dick, neither am i.
I knew you would use cardiovascular capacity and relate it walking the 18 holes, but in all honestly walking is one of the lowest levels of cardiovascular capacity there is. Most people are capable of doing that.
i would think you'd have to be in some type of shape to be considered an athlete above the Mickelson and Daly level.
and by performance level i was dismissing the "grandpa could throw and catch therefore he is an athlete" counter.
agreed but you see here your qualifying cardiovascular level and performance level further more how do you know what their cardiovascular level is i bet mickelson could probably run as much as big pappi. Your right most ppl can walk 18 holes most ppl can run around bases too, run 100 yds as well. Gymnast probably dont get their heart rate up that much as a pro running back doing the balance beam or vault but are those not athletic acts? So what cardiovascular level would you consider an athlete and what performance level would you consider an athlete?
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agreed but you see here your qualifying cardiovascular level and performance level further more how do you know what their cardiovascular level is i bet mickelson could probably run as much as big pappi. Your right most ppl can walk 18 holes most ppl can run around bases too, run 100 yds as well. Gymnast probably dont get their heart rate up that much as a pro running back doing the balance beam or vault but are those not athletic acts? So what cardiovascular level would you consider an athlete and what performance level would you consider an athlete?
Yes i am qualifying cardio capacity with performance level because they are attributes that i feel are required to be an athlete, not just for convenience sake.
Mickelson could very well run a mile as well or as badly as Pappi, i understand where you are going with comparative athleticism. However Pappi has to run the bases and participate in other athletic type of practices,Golfers dont need to run what so ever or even jog for that matter.
As minute as simply running the bases may seem its still part of the game. Hitting a baseball off of a pitcher and running the bases is deeper than simply "running" around the bases yes anyone could do that. But what if he hits a double? he then has to sprint no? it may seem minimal but it is part of the sport.
Gymnasts are athletes of the highest level. Im not sure where youre getting the running back/gymnast comparison from but i think everyones definition of an athlete would include gymnasts regardless of where their heartrate falls.
So what cardiovascular level would you consider an athlete and what performance level would you consider an athlete?
cardiovascular level would have to be greater than what is required from golf IMO, golfers are not required to be in any type of shape.
this is going in circles my friend, if you would like to consider golfers athletes then by all means do so. I would like to think that being an athlete requires more than just hitting a golf ball accurately and walking to the next hole.
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Yes i am qualifying cardio capacity with performance level because they are attributes that i feel are required to be an athlete, not just for convenience sake.
Mickelson could very well run a mile as well or as badly as Pappi, i understand where you are going with comparative athleticism. However Pappi has to run the bases and participate in other athletic type of practices,Golfers dont need to run what so ever or even jog for that matter.
As minute as simply running the bases may seem its still part of the game. Hitting a baseball off of a pitcher and running the bases is deeper than simply "running" around the bases yes anyone could do that. But what if he hits a double? he then has to sprint no? it may seem minimal but it is part of the sport.
Gymnasts are athletes of the highest level. Im not sure where youre getting the running back/gymnast comparison from but i think everyones definition of an athlete would include gymnasts regardless of where their heartrate falls.
cardiovascular level would have to be greater than what is required from golf IMO, golfers are not required to be in any type of shape.
this is going in circles my friend, if you would like to consider golfers athletes then by all means do so. I would like to think that being an athlete requires more than just hitting a golf ball accurately and walking to the next hole.
Ahh see now your getting back to what is a sport not the definition of an athlete
you ever had to make a 40 foot putt to win a tournament? you know how hard and fast your heart would be pounding? my point is that by your definition golfers are athletes i understand you dont think they are but you cant verbally define it in a way that shows they arent only that you dont think they are athletic.
What would probably be the easiest is to say that there are different calibers of athletes and both golfers and baseball players etc...are athletes just to different degrees.
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Ahh see now your getting back to what is a sport not the definition of an athlete
you are incorrect my friend, i am explaining my definition of an athlete, which differs from yours in that my criteria is more stringent. as i said earlier your definition is very general and encompasses a very broad range of what i would consider a minimal skill set.
you ever had to make a 40 foot putt to win a tournament? you know how hard and fast your heart would be pounding?
thats a very bad example youre using. the same can be said of an elite dart player needing to close out the last number in a game of darts, would you consider him athlete also? just because you find it difficult and feel pressure does not constitute you as an athlete.
my point is that by your definition golfers are athletes
by my definition golfers are not athletes, read my post were i explained that i believe they do not require any cardiovascular capacity on a performance level, juxtaposed to your walking 18 holes as a form of cardiovascular conditioning allowing them to be considered athletes. anyone can walk 18 holes just as my grandfather would be able to catch and throw a football to a certain extent but he isnt an athlete. dont think he could have walked 18 holes though..
i understand you dont think they are but you cant verbally define it in a way that shows they arent only that you dont think they are athletic.
i did verbalize my definition in my previous post.
What would probably be the easiest is to say that there are different calibers of athletes and both golfers and baseball players etc...are athletes just to different degrees.
i guess we are at an impasse.
i am not saying i am correct by any means, its just my opinion and i enjoy a good debate.
but for the record if you took a survey and asked people the question of whether they regard golfers as athletes Im fairly confident that the majority would would be in favor with you, I just personally do not consider them as such.
i think the question "are golfers athletes?" is a difficult question to be answered by a simple yes or no.
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Playing football at a highschool level requires more athletic ability than Golf does at the highest level.
very well put
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I'm an avid golfer and this is still a hard question for me to answer :-\
at the highest level could it be a sport,maybe.
but I'll be honest the way I play it's not a sport.I usually take a cart and if I'm with friends drink some beers.
now that I'm older I can say that nothing is more fun for me than playing a round golf with my dad 8)
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now that I'm older I can say that nothing is more fun for me than playing a round golf with my dad 8)
thats awesome, looking back i should have appreciated the time i had with him a lot more instead of being an ignorant teenager. he loved to golf, still have his clubs at my moms.
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i wish my dad played golf we have alot of other things in common lifting, guns and such but it would be nice if he played golf too.
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I'm leaning towards 'no.'
what do you guys think?
No.
It's not a sport.
It is a game.
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i wish my dad played golf we have alot of other things in common lifting, guns and such but it would be nice if he played golf too.
speaking of guns, i was at at gun shop and saw an AK-Shotgun. a shotgun in the AK style that can hold up to 20 rounds!! and the handle can be changed to a pistol grip! im so temped to buy it. a friend of mine bought an AR-15.
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speaking of guns, i was at at gun shop and saw an AK-Shotgun. a shotgun in the AK style that can hold up to 20 rounds!! and the handle can be changed to a pistol grip! im so temped to buy it. a friend of mine bought an AR-15.
LOL WHAT? im gonna have to look that up was it a semi auto or a pump? Ive been wanting to buy a semi auto shot gun for a while now. I got an smith & wesson AR a few months ago for 800 from what i hear now theyve already jumped up to like 11 or 1300 now.
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LOL WHAT? im gonna have to look that up was it a semi auto or a pump? Ive been wanting to buy a semi auto shot gun for a while now. I got an smith & wesson AR a few months ago for 800 from what i hear now theyve already jumped up to like 11 or 1300 now.
its Saiga semi-auto good for up to 20 straight rounds!! it looks bad ass!! its $1100 but think you can get it cheaper. it comes with a 5 round clip and a 10 round clip and you can purchase the 20 round drum seperately. with the drum and pistol grip it looks nuts!! so intimidating.
the AR I was looking at was Russian made and was selling for $1400, the cost of those has sky rocketed for some reason. I think the semi's cost will be going up due to the fact that Obama may try and ban semi-auto's.
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its Saiga semi-auto good for up to 20 straight rounds!! it looks bad ass!! its $1100 but think you can get it cheaper. it comes with a 5 round clip and a 10 round clip and you can purchase the 20 round drum seperately. with the drum and pistol grip it looks nuts!! so intimidating.
the AR I was looking at was Russian made and was selling for $1400, the cost of those has sky rocketed for some reason. I think the semi's cost will be going up due to the fact that Obama may try and ban semi-auto's.
cool i looked it up it does look crazy and its semi auto too, 1100 is alot for a shot gun though but imagine having a semi auto shotgun with a 20 rd drum ;D ohhh that would be sweet.
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Answer: No, it's a game.