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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: jehwit on December 31, 2008, 10:25:02 AM
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I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober. Is AA the way to go? I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
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the path of death.
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the path of death.
Get thee behind me, Satan!
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It's such a dice roll really, I have a family member that got 5 or 6 dwis back in the late 70s/early 80s, had multiple divorces, beat up on his wife and gets, just a complete piece of garbage from what I hear, anyways he got on the AA/NA ticket about 15 years ago and is religious about it, has not had a drink since he joined.
Then I have a friend, who is an alcoholic who has been in and out of jail the past 7 years, always makes promises about starting fresh, and wanting to go through the program but to this day still gets drunk every night and is going nowhere
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AA is a good program but first,the person in question has to want to quit more than anything else.
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I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
bring a flashlight.....u might be waiting with your friend forever on that one!
ANY support program is gonna help more than hurt, but as stated by other posts....its up the individual...
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I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
As they told me in AA,if you`re hungry,you don`t pray to God for a couple of hot dogs.
In other words,get busy.
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AA is a good program but first,the person in question has to want to quit more than anything else.
BINGO
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get him to an AA meeting now.forget the praying.2 hands working can accomplish more than thousands clasped in prayer.Atheist get sober just the same as the religious.
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Only the person with the substance abuse problem can quit. I used to drink quite a bit because I had no negative social consequences doing it, but I decided to quit because it effected my head and my body. It wasn't easy, but after 3-5 days, I felt like I didn't need to drink often. What did it? I simply chose not to drink.
The thing you have in today's society is that people often find ways to rationalize failures. "Can't quit because of xyz, feel like shit, blah, blah." Well, suck it up and fucking stop. It's the same for people who can't get over hurdles in life, or accomplish something expected of them that make the same excuses, in that there's always some outside force to take the blame. In the end, I think these people know their fate is up to them, but since there are so many excuses, why be accountable?
If someone wants to be a junkie then let them.
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get him to an AA meeting now.forget the praying.2 hands working can accomplish more than thousands clasped in prayer.Atheist get sober just the same as the religious.
Good point but the problem with AA is that it's designed for theists only. The actual strategy they use is to get the alcoholic to admit that they are powerless over alcohol and need a higher power (insert invisible friend here) to use their magic to keep them from drinking. This psychological trick may or may not work for a theist but an atheist won't have a magic buddy for that part. Their are secular sobriety groups like SOS which teach self empowering people to stop drinking. Depending on the person's worldview either may offer some help.
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Only the person with the substance abuse problem can quit. I used to drink quite a bit because I had no negative social consequences doing it, but I decided to quit because it effected my head and my body. It wasn't easy, but after 3-5 days, I felt like I didn't need to drink often. What did it? I simply chose not to drink.
The thing you have in today's society is that people often find ways to rationalize failures. "Can't quit because of xyz, feel like shit, blah, blah." Well, suck it up and fucking stop. It's the same for people who can't get over hurdles in life, or accomplish something expected of them that make the same excuses, in that there's always some outside force to take the blame. In the end, I think these people know their fate is up to them, but since there are so many excuses, why be accountable?
If someone wants to be a junkie then let them.
I came in from working all night the other day, around 7 am, had about 6 beers then woke up about 5 hours later with a MASSIVE hangover! I mean i felt like complete dogshit.
It's just not as easy to recover from them as they used to be.
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WES is so right. Change comes from within. Best of luck to your friend.
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Good point but the problem with AA is that it's designed for theists only. The actual strategy they use is to get the alcoholic to admit that they are powerless over alcohol and need a higher power (insert invisible friend here) to use their magic to keep them from drinking. This psychological trick may or may not work for a theist but an atheist won't have a magic buddy for that part. Their are secular sobriety groups like SOS which teach self empowering people to stop drinking. Depending on the person's worldview either may offer some help.
they actually have a chapter in the AA book for Athiest.also the higher power can be anything you want it to be.your higher power could simply be the AA group itself.
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I've seen people recover with both so pick one & try it. If that doesn't work then try the other one.
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Only the person with the substance abuse problem can quit. I used to drink quite a bit because I had no negative social consequences doing it, but I decided to quit because it effected my head and my body. It wasn't easy, but after 3-5 days, I felt like I didn't need to drink often. What did it? I simply chose not to drink.
The thing you have in today's society is that people often find ways to rationalize failures. "Can't quit because of xyz, feel like shit, blah, blah." Well, suck it up and fucking stop. It's the same for people who can't get over hurdles in life, or accomplish something expected of them that make the same excuses, in that there's always some outside force to take the blame. In the end, I think these people know their fate is up to them, but since there are so many excuses, why be accountable?
If someone wants to be a junkie then let them.
Great post and great way to end the year on a truth positive note.
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I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober. Is AA the way to go? I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
You could always try introducing him to meth. Most methheads don't drink.
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A bullet to the head should cure them, Alcoholism is a disease of the West, weak western and weak western women.
jt
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Sometimes I'll just be standing there with a beer in my left hand and be thinking "What the hell am I doing", I just pour it down the sink.
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A bullet to the head should cure them, Alcoholism is a disease of the West, weak western and weak western women.
jt
aren't you on anti-depressant manufactured and designed by the "West"?
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aren't you on anti-depressant manufactured and designed by the "West"?
he's on something because a clear mind dont talk shit in that manner
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due to some poor decisions I was forced to go to AA for minimum 8 meetings, it is a mandatory requirement to have your license reinstated in my state. depending on the severity of your infraction they can make you go to 20+ meetings, not to mention before that you have to take 20 hours of classes and pay for them which is basically like an alcohol oriented dare program for adults.
as open minded as I tried to be, the majority of people in those meetings were either people desperate for attention with no concern how they get it... and weak minded individuals. their mantra is to embrace your "higher power", and for christians, God. their whole doctrine demands that you succumb that you are "powerless over alcohol" and in so many words you need to ask for help from your higher power or you are just destined to be completely fucked in life.
a lot of people go to these meetings that are just lonely individuals, they have no life outside of these meetings. they completely immerse themselves in the program, and their lives revolve around the social aspect of it and their functions. their stories tend to become nauseating after a while, and seeing a bunch of adults act like pissed off kids because someone ran over their time talking and they didn't get a chance to share was an experience that reminded me of junior high with people jockeying to establish the social hierarchy.
you don't have to participate in the holding hands and praying ritual at the end of every meeting if you don't want to... they will view your lack of participation as not completely embracing the program though, which is a prerequisite for it to supposedly work. don't be surprised when people seem way overly friendly and constantly try to talk to you, invite you to hang out etc. its almost like feeling they are trying to recruit you into their ranks.
you will see people from all walks of life, from white collar, to the homeless, mentally retarded, any demographic you can think of. it was a bit awkward at some points running into people at meetings that I knew, it was like seeing a completely different side of them as everyone talks about their major life issues and substance abuse problems.... things they would never touch upon in any other environment.
to sum it up.... some people will benefit greatly from it and it will be an extremely positive influence in their life. others will use it strictly on a social level to fill whatever need they desire, be it attention or a solution to loneliness... and even manipulative people with more sinister intentions as it is a prime breeding ground for impressionable and naive people. sure there are some good people in there, but often times I think they are very misguided but like any belief system things are open to a degree of interpretation from person to person.
me personally I thought it was a very personal thing that demanded way too much integration between the lives of yourself and many people you don't really care for at all. not to mention forcing people to go probably turns off most people... knowing that I was there against my will made me very resentful of the whole thing.
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due to some poor decisions I was forced to go to AA for minimum 8 meetings, it is a mandatory requirement to have your license reinstated in my state. depending on the severity of your infraction they can make you go to 20+ meetings, not to mention before that you have to take 20 hours of classes and pay for them which is basically like an alcohol oriented dare program for adults.
as open minded as I tried to be, the majority of people in those meetings were either people desperate for attention with no concern how they get it... and weak minded individuals. their mantra is to embrace your "higher power", and for christians, God. their whole doctrine demands that you succumb that you are "powerless over alcohol" and in so many words you need to ask for help from your higher power or you are just destined to be completely fucked in life.
a lot of people go to these meetings that are just lonely individuals, they have no life outside of these meetings. they completely immerse themselves in the program, and their lives revolve around the social aspect of it and their functions. their stories tend to become nauseating after a while, and seeing a bunch of adults act like pissed off kids because someone ran over their time talking and they didn't get a chance to share was an experience that reminded me of junior high with people jockeying to establish the social hierarchy.
you don't have to participate in the holding hands and praying ritual at the end of every meeting if you don't want to... they will view your lack of participation as not completely embracing the program though, which is a prerequisite for it to supposedly work. don't be surprised when people seem way overly friendly and constantly try to talk to you, invite you to hang out etc. its almost like feeling they are trying to recruit you into their ranks.
you will see people from all walks of life, from white collar, to the homeless, mentally retarded, any demographic you can think of. it was a bit awkward at some points running into people at meetings that I knew, it was like seeing a completely different side of them as everyone talks about their major life issues and substance abuse problems.... things they would never touch upon in any other environment.
to sum it up.... some people will benefit greatly from it and it will be an extremely positive influence in their life. others will use it strictly on a social level to fill whatever need they desire, be it attention or a solution to loneliness... and even manipulative people with more sinister intentions as it is a prime breeding ground for impressionable and naive people. sure there are some good people in there, but often times I think they are very misguided but like any belief system things are open to a degree of interpretation from person to person.
me personally I thought it was a very personal thing that demanded way too much integration between the lives of yourself and many people you don't really care for at all. not to mention forcing people to go probably turns off most people... knowing that I was there against my will made me very resentful of the whole thing.
You can pick up alot of pussy at AA/NA meetings
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You can pick up alot of pussy at AA/NA meetings
true but that's not fairgame.
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true but that's not fairgame.
Life ain't fair Alex
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I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober. Is AA the way to go? I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
Shoot him and end the misery.
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You can pick up alot of pussy at AA/NA meetings
I thought this might be the case.. however there was never a really attractive woman in any of the meetings I had to attend, and I tried many different groups to change things up in attempt to make it somewhat interesting (and to complete my hours quicker). after a while I was daydreaming thinking about railing the occasional 4 or 5 in the room (on a scale of 1-20), and then cringing when they would tell their stories. some serious headcases, I would never see a woman from a substance abuse group... it sounds good in theory but give it a whirl and see how appealing she is looking after talking about ODing and being shocked back to life, or how grateful they are for their 7 kids.
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true but that's not fairgame.
very respectable cubby :)
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I thought this might be the case.. however there was never a really attractive woman in any of the meetings I had to attend, and I tried many different groups to change things up in attempt to make it somewhat interesting (and to complete my hours quicker). after a while I was daydreaming thinking about railing the occasional 4 or 5 in the room (on a scale of 1-20), and then cringing when they would tell their stories. some serious headcases, I would never see a woman from a substance abuse group... it sounds good in theory but give it a whirl and see how appealing she is looking after talking about ODing and being shocked back to life, or how grateful they are for their 7 kids.
You ever heard of the phrase "Early, easy?"
Sometimes when you are feeling a little lazy, and don't want to pull all your game out, you gotta pick the less attractive woman with a few psychological problems.
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Alex isn't an alcoholic.
jt
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The pussy you pick up at any alcohol related help gatherings will usually be very skinny or fat and be drained to the point where their attractive attributes = non existent.
Those babes will most likely give birth to a jug of vodka and cranberry ;D
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He must hit rock bottom, or youll waste youre time
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I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober. Is AA the way to go? I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
you should pray over the koran and pamphelt of scientology to cover your bases.
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SUBSTANCE ABUSE UPDATE: After much research it has become apparent that Rational Recovery is basically evil and ineffective because it doesn't include God in it's formula. AA is the way to go, as it is God based.
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due to some poor decisions I was forced to go to AA for minimum 8 meetings, it is a mandatory requirement to have your license reinstated in my state. depending on the severity of your infraction they can make you go to 20+ meetings, not to mention before that you have to take 20 hours of classes and pay for them which is basically like an alcohol oriented dare program for adults.
as open minded as I tried to be, the majority of people in those meetings were either people desperate for attention with no concern how they get it... and weak minded individuals. their mantra is to embrace your "higher power", and for christians, God. their whole doctrine demands that you succumb that you are "powerless over alcohol" and in so many words you need to ask for help from your higher power or you are just destined to be completely fucked in life.
a lot of people go to these meetings that are just lonely individuals, they have no life outside of these meetings. they completely immerse themselves in the program, and their lives revolve around the social aspect of it and their functions. their stories tend to become nauseating after a while, and seeing a bunch of adults act like pissed off kids because someone ran over their time talking and they didn't get a chance to share was an experience that reminded me of junior high with people jockeying to establish the social hierarchy.
you don't have to participate in the holding hands and praying ritual at the end of every meeting if you don't want to... they will view your lack of participation as not completely embracing the program though, which is a prerequisite for it to supposedly work. don't be surprised when people seem way overly friendly and constantly try to talk to you, invite you to hang out etc. its almost like feeling they are trying to recruit you into their ranks.
you will see people from all walks of life, from white collar, to the homeless, mentally retarded, any demographic you can think of. it was a bit awkward at some points running into people at meetings that I knew, it was like seeing a completely different side of them as everyone talks about their major life issues and substance abuse problems.... things they would never touch upon in any other environment.
to sum it up.... some people will benefit greatly from it and it will be an extremely positive influence in their life. others will use it strictly on a social level to fill whatever need they desire, be it attention or a solution to loneliness... and even manipulative people with more sinister intentions as it is a prime breeding ground for impressionable and naive people. sure there are some good people in there, but often times I think they are very misguided but like any belief system things are open to a degree of interpretation from person to person.
me personally I thought it was a very personal thing that demanded way too much integration between the lives of yourself and many people you don't really care for at all. not to mention forcing people to go probably turns off most people... knowing that I was there against my will made me very resentful of the whole thing.
very insightful post..thanks....I know several people that go to aa and it does sound very cult like. One person I know has a serious alchohol problem but she just will not accept that she is an alcoholic because she says that the people at the meetings are very bad people that tell everyone all the bad things they did to other people. She cannot identify with these people because she hasnt commited the same atrocities and I dont blame her. I tried to point out that she has hurt herself because of drinking but that didnt quite work. So in her case aa is actually hindering her from finding the right path to sobriety.
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aren't you on anti-depressant manufactured and designed by the "West"?
another smart ass remark from good ol a23
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very insightful post..thanks....I know several people that go to aa and it does sound very cult like. One person I know has a serious alchohol problem but she just will not accept that she is an alcoholic because she says that the people at the meetings are very bad people that tell everyone all the bad things they did to other people. She cannot identify with these people because she hasnt commited the same atrocities and I dont blame her. I tried to point out that she has hurt herself because of drinking but that didnt quite work. So in her case aa is actually hindering her from finding the right path to sobriety.
Your friend will come a sad realization one day and see herself for what she really is. Good of you to try and point things out to her, but sometimes people need to come to terms themselves.
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I feel very sorry for alcoholics I do believe it is a chromosone that creates the reaction to alcohol and there is nothing one can do about that.
I believe alcoholics experience a totally different feeling from alcohol than you or I. I believe they get a high from it, not a buzz, but more like a heroine high (not that I have tried heroin.)
YOu can identify an alcholic if their personalities change drasticaly when they drink and stay high for extended periods of time, while other's buzz's have worn off long ago. They also dont experience a hangover. And after years of drinking I noticed they start to slur only after one or two drinks and always cant remember anything the following day.
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I feel very sorry for alcoholics I do believe it is a chromosone that creates the reaction to alcohol and there is nothing one can do about that.
I believe alcoholics experience a totally different feeling from alcohol than you or I. I believe they get a high from it, not a buzz, but more like a heroine high (not that I have tried heroin.)
YOu can identify an alcholic if their personalities change drasticaly when they drink and stay high for extended periods of time, while other's buzz's have worn off long ago. They also dont experience a hangover. And after years of drinking I noticed they start to slur only after one or two drinks and always cant remember anything the following day.
way too many generalizations about addictive behavior
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Your friend will come a sad realization one day and see herself for what she really is. Good of you to try and point things out to her, but sometimes people need to come to terms themselves.
yes, she has hit rock bottom more than a few times, I have no idea what could possibly make her wake up at this point.
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way too many generalizations about addictive behavior
well as far as alcohol thats what I have noticed. the slurring, the blacking out, the change in personality. the high they get. also the constant excuses they make to have a drink...night cap, celebration drink, dinner cocktail, end of the day drink, after work drink, blah blah blah
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Alcoholics Anonymous has its roots in the occult.
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Alcoholics Anonymous has its roots in the occult.
Bro i'm pretty fucking wasted right now posting, can you give me a few words of wisdom? Thanks in advance...
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Bro i'm pretty fucking wasted right now posting, can you give me a few words of wisdom? Thanks in advance...
Yes, I can. So what's your poison tonight if you don't mind sharing?
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Bro i'm pretty fucking wasted right now posting, can you give me a few words of wisdom? Thanks in advance...
Ok, here's one for you...
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
- 1 peter 5:8 (KJV)
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Ok, here's one for you...
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
- 1 peter 5:8 (KJV)
Thank you my fine man...This devil you talk about likes to toy with me...
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Yes, I can. So what's your poison tonight if you don't mind sharing?
Just beers...I've always called alcohol "the devils poison" because it was made by man...Weed and mushrooms I believe were made by God...
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I've always called alcohol "the devils poison" because it was made by man...Weed and mushrooms I believe were made by God...
True, and so was the forbidden fruit.
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True, and so was the forbidden fruit.
To'shay...
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Bro i'm pretty fucking wasted right now posting, can you give me a few words of wisdom? Thanks in advance...
I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.
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Sometimes I'll just be standing there with a beer in my left hand and be thinking "What the hell am I doing", I just pour it down the sink.
what a waste
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I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober. Is AA the way to go? I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
go to a doctor...get some Librium/10 mg
http://psyweb.com/Drughtm/jsp/librium.jsp
Chlordiazepoxide ( Libritabs, Librium ) was the first antianxiety agent ( benzodiazepines. ) Used primarily for relief anxiety. It may also be used to treat symptoms of acute alcohol withdrawals. Sometimes given before surgery.
btw....fuck AA..NO ONE on this planet will get ya clean unless ya first wanna be
been there