Author Topic: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC  (Read 4308 times)

jehwit

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ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« on: December 31, 2008, 10:25:02 AM »
I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober.  Is AA the way to go?  I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.

Mars

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 10:26:04 AM »
the path of death.

jehwit

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 10:26:48 AM »
the path of death.

Get thee behind me, Satan!

polychronopolous

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2008, 10:29:39 AM »
It's such a dice roll really, I have a family member that got 5 or 6 dwis back in the late 70s/early 80s, had multiple divorces, beat up on his wife and gets, just a complete piece of garbage from what I hear, anyways he got on the AA/NA ticket about 15 years ago and is religious about it, has not had a drink since he joined.

Then I have a friend, who is an alcoholic who has been in and out of jail the past 7 years, always makes promises about starting fresh, and wanting to go through the program but to this day still gets drunk every night and is going nowhere

wes

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2008, 12:05:53 PM »
AA is a good program but first,the person in question has to want to quit more than anything else.

wes mantooth

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 12:10:02 PM »
  I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.

bring a flashlight.....u might be waiting with your friend forever on that one!

ANY support program is gonna help more than hurt, but as stated by other posts....its up the individual...

wes

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 12:12:56 PM »
I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.
As they told me in AA,if you`re hungry,you don`t pray to God for a couple of hot dogs.

In other words,get busy.

windsor88

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 12:13:14 PM »
AA is a good program but first,the person in question has to want to quit more than anything else.

BINGO

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 12:55:33 PM »
get him to an AA meeting now.forget the praying.2 hands working can accomplish more than thousands clasped in prayer.Atheist get sober just the same as the religious.
DAWG

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 01:07:39 PM »
Only the person with the substance abuse problem can quit. I used to drink quite a bit because I had no negative social consequences doing it, but I decided to quit because it effected my head and my body. It wasn't easy, but after 3-5 days, I felt like I didn't need to drink often. What did it? I simply chose not to drink.

The thing you have in today's society is that people often find ways to rationalize failures. "Can't quit because of xyz, feel like shit, blah, blah." Well, suck it up and fucking stop. It's the same for people who can't get over hurdles in life, or accomplish something expected of them that make the same excuses, in that there's always some outside force to take the blame. In the end, I think these people know their  fate is up to them, but since there are so many excuses, why be accountable?

If someone wants to be a junkie then let them.

Naked4Jesus

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 01:08:11 PM »
get him to an AA meeting now.forget the praying.2 hands working can accomplish more than thousands clasped in prayer.Atheist get sober just the same as the religious.


Good point but the problem with AA is that it's designed for theists only.  The actual strategy they use is to get the alcoholic to admit that they are powerless over alcohol and need a higher power (insert invisible friend here) to use their magic to keep them from drinking.   This psychological trick may or may not work for a theist but an atheist won't have a magic buddy for that part.  Their are secular sobriety groups like SOS which teach self empowering people to stop drinking.   Depending on the person's worldview either may offer some help.

polychronopolous

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2008, 01:09:58 PM »
Only the person with the substance abuse problem can quit. I used to drink quite a bit because I had no negative social consequences doing it, but I decided to quit because it effected my head and my body. It wasn't easy, but after 3-5 days, I felt like I didn't need to drink often. What did it? I simply chose not to drink.

The thing you have in today's society is that people often find ways to rationalize failures. "Can't quit because of xyz, feel like shit, blah, blah." Well, suck it up and fucking stop. It's the same for people who can't get over hurdles in life, or accomplish something expected of them that make the same excuses, in that there's always some outside force to take the blame. In the end, I think these people know their  fate is up to them, but since there are so many excuses, why be accountable?

If someone wants to be a junkie then let them.

I came in from working all night the other day, around 7 am, had about 6 beers then woke up about 5 hours later with a MASSIVE hangover! I mean i felt like complete dogshit.

It's just not as easy to recover from them as they used to be.

ironjoe

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2008, 01:11:24 PM »
WES is so right.  Change comes from within.  Best of luck to your friend.

big L dawg

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2008, 01:19:51 PM »

Good point but the problem with AA is that it's designed for theists only.  The actual strategy they use is to get the alcoholic to admit that they are powerless over alcohol and need a higher power (insert invisible friend here) to use their magic to keep them from drinking.   This psychological trick may or may not work for a theist but an atheist won't have a magic buddy for that part.  Their are secular sobriety groups like SOS which teach self empowering people to stop drinking.   Depending on the person's worldview either may offer some help.

they actually have a chapter in the AA book for Athiest.also the higher power can be anything you want it to be.your higher power could simply be the AA group itself.
DAWG

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2008, 01:24:02 PM »
I've seen people recover with both so pick one & try it. If that doesn't work then try the other one.

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2008, 01:25:02 PM »
Only the person with the substance abuse problem can quit. I used to drink quite a bit because I had no negative social consequences doing it, but I decided to quit because it effected my head and my body. It wasn't easy, but after 3-5 days, I felt like I didn't need to drink often. What did it? I simply chose not to drink.

The thing you have in today's society is that people often find ways to rationalize failures. "Can't quit because of xyz, feel like shit, blah, blah." Well, suck it up and fucking stop. It's the same for people who can't get over hurdles in life, or accomplish something expected of them that make the same excuses, in that there's always some outside force to take the blame. In the end, I think these people know their  fate is up to them, but since there are so many excuses, why be accountable?

If someone wants to be a junkie then let them.
 

Great post and great way to end the year on a truth positive note.

technokc

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2008, 01:25:39 PM »
I'm trying to help a substance abusing friend get clean and sober.  Is AA the way to go?  I have been praying with my friend over The Bible for Christ to illuminate the right path.

You could always try introducing him to meth.  Most methheads don't drink.

jtsunami

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2008, 01:29:43 PM »
A bullet to the head should cure them, Alcoholism is a disease of the West, weak western and weak western women.

jt
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polychronopolous

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2008, 01:29:49 PM »
Sometimes I'll just be standing there with a beer in my left hand and be thinking "What the hell am I doing", I just pour it down the sink.

Alex23

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2008, 01:30:33 PM »
A bullet to the head should cure them, Alcoholism is a disease of the West, weak western and weak western women.

jt
 

aren't you on anti-depressant manufactured and designed by the "West"?

bigdumbbell

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 01:35:28 PM »
 

aren't you on anti-depressant manufactured and designed by the "West"?
he's on something because a clear mind dont talk shit in that manner

Jizzacked

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2008, 01:42:47 PM »
due to some poor decisions I was forced to go to AA for minimum 8 meetings, it is a mandatory requirement to have your license reinstated in my state.  depending on the severity of your infraction they can make you go to 20+ meetings, not to mention before that you have to take 20 hours of classes and pay for them which is basically like an alcohol oriented dare program for adults.

as open minded as I tried to be, the majority of people in those meetings were either people desperate for attention with no concern how they get it... and weak minded individuals.  their mantra is to embrace your "higher power", and for christians, God.  their whole doctrine demands that you succumb that you are "powerless over alcohol" and in so many words you need to ask for help from your higher power or you are just destined to be completely fucked in life.

a lot of people go to these meetings that are just lonely individuals, they have no life outside of these meetings.  they completely immerse themselves in the program, and their lives revolve around the social aspect of it and their functions.  their stories tend to become nauseating after a while, and seeing a bunch of adults act like pissed off kids because someone ran over their time talking and they didn't get a chance to share was an experience that reminded me of junior high with people jockeying to establish the social hierarchy.  

you don't have to participate in the holding hands and praying ritual at the end of every meeting if you don't want to... they will view your lack of participation as not completely embracing the program though, which is a prerequisite for it to supposedly work.  don't be surprised when people seem way overly friendly and constantly try to talk to you, invite you to hang out etc.  its almost like feeling they are trying to recruit you into their ranks.

you will see people from all walks of life, from white collar, to the homeless, mentally retarded, any demographic you can think of.  it was a bit awkward at some points running into people at meetings that I knew, it was like seeing a completely different side of them as everyone talks about their major life issues and substance abuse problems.... things they would never touch upon in any other environment.

to sum it up.... some people will benefit greatly from it and it will be an extremely positive influence in their life.  others will use it strictly on a social level to fill whatever need they desire, be it attention or a solution to loneliness... and even manipulative people with more sinister intentions as it is a prime breeding ground for impressionable and naive people.  sure there are some good people in there, but often times I think they are very misguided but like any belief system things are open to a degree of interpretation from person to person.

me personally I thought it was a very personal thing that demanded way too much integration between the lives of yourself and many people you don't really care for at all.  not to mention forcing people to go probably turns off most people... knowing that I was there against my will made me very resentful of the whole thing.

polychronopolous

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 01:44:10 PM »
due to some poor decisions I was forced to go to AA for minimum 8 meetings, it is a mandatory requirement to have your license reinstated in my state.  depending on the severity of your infraction they can make you go to 20+ meetings, not to mention before that you have to take 20 hours of classes and pay for them which is basically like an alcohol oriented dare program for adults.

as open minded as I tried to be, the majority of people in those meetings were either people desperate for attention with no concern how they get it... and weak minded individuals.  their mantra is to embrace your "higher power", and for christians, God.  their whole doctrine demands that you succumb that you are "powerless over alcohol" and in so many words you need to ask for help from your higher power or you are just destined to be completely fucked in life.

a lot of people go to these meetings that are just lonely individuals, they have no life outside of these meetings.  they completely immerse themselves in the program, and their lives revolve around the social aspect of it and their functions.  their stories tend to become nauseating after a while, and seeing a bunch of adults act like pissed off kids because someone ran over their time talking and they didn't get a chance to share was an experience that reminded me of junior high with people jockeying to establish the social hierarchy.  

you don't have to participate in the holding hands and praying ritual at the end of every meeting if you don't want to... they will view your lack of participation as not completely embracing the program though, which is a prerequisite for it to supposedly work.  don't be surprised when people seem way overly friendly and constantly try to talk to you, invite you to hang out etc.  its almost like feeling they are trying to recruit you into their ranks.

you will see people from all walks of life, from white collar, to the homeless, mentally retarded, any demographic you can think of.  it was a bit awkward at some points running into people at meetings that I knew, it was like seeing a completely different side of them as everyone talks about their major life issues and substance abuse problems.... things they would never touch upon in any other environment.

to sum it up.... some people will benefit greatly from it and it will be an extremely positive influence in their life.  others will use it strictly on a social level to fill whatever need they desire, be it attention or a solution to loneliness... and even manipulative people with more sinister intentions as it is a prime breeding ground for impressionable and naive people.  sure there are some good people in there, but often times I think they are very misguided but like any belief system things are open to a degree of interpretation from person to person.

me personally I thought it was a very personal thing that demanded way too much integration between the lives of yourself and many people you don't really care for at all.  not to mention forcing people to go probably turns off most people... knowing that I was there against my will made me very resentful of the whole thing.

You can pick up alot of pussy at AA/NA meetings

Alex23

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2008, 01:47:26 PM »
You can pick up alot of pussy at AA/NA meetings
 

true but that's not fairgame.

polychronopolous

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Re: ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, RATIONAL RECOVERY ETC
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2008, 01:48:31 PM »
 

true but that's not fairgame.

Life ain't fair Alex