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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on January 01, 2009, 06:27:59 PM
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Seems pretty clear cut. She needs to go find another job.
Teacher Fired for Marrying Divorced Man to Sue Catholic School
Wednesday, December 31, 2008
A San Antonio teacher plans to sue her former employer, a Catholic high school, saying she was fired for marrying a man who had been divorced, a proceeding not recognized by the Catholic Church, the San Antonio Express-News reported Tuesday.
Marquis LaFortune, 25, filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission after her Nov. 22 ceremony. She claims that once the school found out her fiancé had been divorced, Deacon Patrick Cunningham told her she had three options: seek an annulment, resign or be fired.
“I would have resigned if I'd felt like I'd done something wrong,” LaFortune told the Express-News last week. “I couldn't get out of bed. It's just been this cloud. It was supposed to be the best week of my life, and I had to pull myself together for the ceremony.”
Central Catholic High School said federal law upholds the institution's decision.
“We have very clear policies on what we expect from Catholic people on our faculty, and there has been a violation of that,” Brother Peter Pontolillo told the Express-News. “When a person does something that is obviously contrary to everything that our Catholic school stands for, we cannot just look through our fingers.”
Raised in the Catholic faith, LaFortune had transferred to her fiancé's nondenominational church before the conflict unfolded, the Express-News reported.
Since Central Catholic High School regularly hires non-Catholic teachers, LaFortune argued that since she no longer attended a Catholic church, she should not be held accountable to the church's laws.
The school was not persuaded.
“Do you know what the definition of scandal is?” Pontolillo told the Express-News. “If I present myself as Catholic to an institution that's Catholic, and I practice that Catholicism in the institution by attending school Masses and receiving communion and then suddenly make a decision that is published that [I am] now going to go against that Catholicism.”
LaFortune found out on her honeymoon that her husband's previous marriage had, in fact, been annulled. She plans to fight the school's decision and file a lawsuit.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474464,00.html
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Seems pretty clear cut. She needs to go find another job.
Wow. Considering private catholic school teachers make 2/3 of what their public school counterparts make, you'd think the school would have more sense than to chase away teachers. This woman did nothing wrong, except for fall in love with someone whose past marriage didn't work.
There are teachers out there who scream at students, visit kiddy porn sites, and waste a lot of taxpayer dollars with overall sloth, and they'll all still have jobs tomorrow. This woman, who fell in love with a man who didn't marry the right woman the first time, will not.
Pretty messed up. Some ppl still live in the stone age, I suppose. They'll replace her with someone who's trapped in a loveless marriage, or someone alone, who will better fit their criteria and be a lot less happy teaching. The kids lose.
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They will replace her with someone who will follow whatever the church's teachings are. She had to know that adherence to some sort of code of conduct was part of her conditions of employment when she was hired.
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They will replace her with someone who will follow whatever the church's teachings are. She had to know that adherence to some sort of code of conduct was part of her conditions of employment when she was hired.
agreed.
but...
it's an outdated code of conduct, and the kids will suffer as a result. They lose their teacher halfway thru the school year. The school looks like shit to the whole nation/community.
BB, I know you're a really religious guy, and you stand by the church. I was raised catholic, did grade 1-10 at private catholic schools. There is just as much dirt on their hands as at private schools - worse because they force students to repress so many natural feelings. I didn't masturbate for a long time because my teachers told me it was sin. Not healthy, nat natural, and when I finally did it, I felt so guilty for simple releasing a nut.
it's outdated and obsolete. Not realistic. I can see why so many people leave the church :(
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LaFortune found out on her honeymoon that her husband's previous marriage had, in fact, been annulled. She plans to fight the school's decision and file a lawsuit.
I wonder why she didn't find out until the honeymoon that her husband's previous marriage had been annulled? ...especially since she was so upset that week..could the husband not have known his previous marriage was annulled?
Maybe the Cath church only accepts annullments from a Cath church and his wasn't ?
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This has nothing to do with me, or me standing by the church. It's about the church establishing rules, a person accepting a job conditioned upon following the rules, and church enforcing those rules. It's also about the free exercise of religion.
If this woman believed the rules were outdated, she should have found a job with a public school.
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I wonder why she didn't find out until the honeymoon that her husband's previous marriage had been annulled? ...especially since she was so upset that week..could the husband not have known his previous marriage was annulled?
Maybe the Cath church only accepts annullments from a Cath church and his wasn't ?
Sounds a little convenient. Highly unusual that the woman wouldn't know her husband's complete marital history before their honeymoon.
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Seems pretty clear cut. She needs to go find another job.
the only thing that's clear cut is how fucking stupid the Catholic Church is.
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Sounds a little convenient. Highly unusual that the woman wouldn't know her husband's complete marital history before their honeymoon.
No, it's not. I have personally have people in front of me who don't know their spouses or boyfriends/girlfriends middle names. Let alone their mother in law's names.
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No, it's not. I have personally have people in front of me who don't know their spouses or boyfriends/girlfriends middle names. Let alone their mother in law's names.
not knowing a middle name or forgetting a middle name more likely is very different from not knowing your spouses marriage history. Agreed with beach she most certainly knew of this before hand and if she didnt have common sense enough to find out then its probably not somebody you want teaching kids anyway.
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“We have very clear policies on what we expect from Catholic people on our faculty, and there has been a violation of that,” Brother Peter Pontolillo told the Express-News. “When a person does something that is obviously contrary to everything that our Catholic school stands for, we cannot just look through our fingers.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474464,00.html
how about the fourth option - quite the fucking church.
If she's not Catholic how can they expect her to follow their idiotic rules.
It's really too bad she's not a molesting priest because if that were the case they would just move her to a new school and probably give her a raise too
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It's really too bad she's not a molesting priest because if that were the case they would just move her to a new school and probably give her a raise too
sad but true. and i've been catholic my whole life.
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how about the fourth option - quite the fucking church.
If she's not Catholic how can they expect her to follow their idiotic rules.
It's really too bad she's not a molesting priest because if that were the case they would just move her to a new school and probably give her a raise too
She accepted the job and in doing so agreed to their "idiotic rules"
The question should be if she couldnt follow their rules why did she take the job?
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She accepted the job and in doing so agreed to their "idiotic rules"
The question should be if she couldnt follow their rules why did she take the job?
really, do you know all of the conditions of her employment? How do you know that there are explicit requirements to be a practicing and perfect Catholic?
I have two friends (both Jewish) who teach at a Jesuit high school. I've met a few of their fellow teachers who aren't Catholic or even religious.
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Since Central Catholic High School regularly hires non-Catholic teachers, LaFortune argued that since she no longer attended a Catholic church, she should not be held accountable to the church's laws.
I missed this part.
Smart Chick.
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No, it's not. I have personally have people in front of me who don't know their spouses or boyfriends/girlfriends middle names. Let alone their mother in law's names.
Your friends sound out of the ordinary. I've never polled my married friends about whether they know their spouses middle names, but I'm sure all of them know. I'd be shocked if they didn't know their spouses marital history either. That's like pre-marital info 101.
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not knowing a middle name or forgetting a middle name more likely is very different from not knowing your spouses marriage history. Agreed with beach she most certainly knew of this before hand and if she didnt have common sense enough to find out then its probably not somebody you want teaching kids anyway.
Agree. I also wouldn't want someone teaching kids who can't follow rules.
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She accepted the job and in doing so agreed to their "idiotic rules"
The question should be if she couldnt follow their rules why did she take the job?
Exactly. It doesn't matter what her religious faith is. If she wants to teach at a Catholic school she has to follow whatever rules the Catholic church imposes, which she must have accepted at the time she started working for the school. If she had a problem with the rules she shouldn't have taken the job.
This is how religious organizations work. For example, if you want to teach at a Mormon school, you follow their guidelines. If you want to attend BYU, you abide by their code of conduct.
The only potential issue is whether they treat all employees the same:
“As a general matter, religious institutions are free to engage in religious discrimination in employment,” said Ira C. Lupu, a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School. “The question is, are they applying the policy consistently? I think the point about consistency is very important.”
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/Central_Catholic_teacher_terminated_over_marriage.html
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Agree. I also wouldn't want someone teaching kids who can't follow rules.
oh brother. None of you guys even know anything about what kind of teacher she was and since she had already switched to some other church the rules of the Catholic church don't even apply to her so their one and only lame argument is moot.
I'd like to know if this school has always applied their interpretation of the rules equally throughout their history. I'd bet not.
Hopefully she'll sue and win millions.
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really, do you know all of the conditions of her employment? How do you know that there are explicit requirements to be a practicing and perfect Catholic?
I have two friends (both Jewish) who teach at a Jesuit high school. I've met a few of their fellow teachers who aren't Catholic or even religious.
LOL no, do you? Assuming that the school put some statement in there about conducting themselves in a favorable light that is conducive with what is taught in school which is very reasonable to assume wouldnt you think?
She accepted those terms and it doesnt matter whether she herself is catholic or not she works for a catholic school so is expected to follow their rules not her own. If she works for an istitution that incorperates the church then yes she should follow the churchs laws.
I cant believe your argueing for this person, I understand where you are coming from but seriously if they believe it goes against their teachings to do what she did you really dont think its in there power to fire her?
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oh brother. None of you guys even know anything about what kind of teacher she was and since she had already switched to some other church the rules of the Catholic church don't even apply to her so their one and only lame argument is moot.
I'd like to know if this school has always applied their interpretation of the rules equally throughout their history. I'd bet not.
Hopefully she'll sue and win millions.
Wrong. The issue isn't whether or not she is a practicing Catholic, it's whether she has violated school policy.
lol . . . Win millions? For what? (Rhetorical questions.)
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oh brother. None of you guys even know anything about what kind of teacher she was and since she had already switched to some other church the rules of the Catholic church don't even apply to her so their one and only lame argument is moot.
I'd like to know if this school has always applied their interpretation of the rules equally throughout their history. I'd bet not.
Hopefully she'll sue and win millions.
again it doesnt matter what church she belongs to what matters is where she WORKS and the expectations they have for teachers which she didnt meet.
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again it doesnt matter what church she belongs to what matters is where she WORKS and the expectations they have for teachers which she didnt meet.
really?
There are non-catholics working at that school and odds are ~ 50-50 that some of those people are divorced. She claims to have quite the church prior to this becoming an issue so the school won't have a leg to stand on and if they were smart they would quietly settle.
I'll also bet there are plenty of practicing catholics teaching at that school that have violated any number of the numerous and ridiculous rules of the church without being fired. I wonder how many have received communion without first confessing that they deliberately engaged in impure thoughts.
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really?
There are non-catholics working at that school and odds are ~ 50-50 that some of those people are divorced. She claims to have quite the church prior to this becoming an issue so the school won't have a leg to stand on and if they were smart they would quietly settle.
I'll also bet there are plenty of practicing catholics teaching at that school that have violated any number of the numerous and ridiculous rules of the church without being fired. I wonder how many have received communion without first confessing that they deliberately engaged in impure thoughts.
LOL dude why do you always add like 15 extra lines to your posts?
If thats the case then ya she should get her job back, but like you asked do you know thats the case? why are odds 50-50?
Again it doesnt matter what church she goes to, why dont you understand that? She could agnostic but if she works for a catholic school that teaches church ideals she has to up hold catholic standards. Its like working for a womens rights organization and then being openly sexist. It just doesnt represent the organization in the best light or fall in line with what the organization stands for. Im not saying that they havent looked the other way on other issues but if they havent then she has no leg to stand on.
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LOL dude why do you always add like 15 extra lines to your posts?
If thats the case then ya she should get her job back, but like you asked do you know thats the case? why are odds 50-50?
Again it doesnt matter what church she goes to, why dont you understand that? She could agnostic but if she works for a catholic school that teaches church ideals she has to up hold catholic standards. Its like working for a womens rights organization and then being openly sexist. It just doesnt represent the organization in the best light or fall in line with what the organization stands for. Im not saying that they havent looked the other way on other issues but if they havent then she has no leg to stand on.
you mean the blank space at the end of my last post? I don't know why that happened. Do I really "always" do that?
The quote from the brother in the article specifies the policies are for Catholic people on their faculty which seems to cleary imply that it does matter what church they attend.....specifically the Catholic church.
“We have very clear policies on what we expect from Catholic people on our faculty, and there has been a violation of that,” Brother Peter Pontolillo told the Express-News. “When a person does something that is obviously contrary to everything that our Catholic school stands for, we cannot just look through our fingers.”
what part don't you get?
regarding the non-Catholic members of the faculty there's a good chance that some of them are divorced.
why 50/50?
Don't half of all marriages end in divorce?
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Both Straw Man & Beach Bum are correct.
Straw Man in his assertion the catholic church is made up of a bunch of idiots,
...and BeachBum in his assertion that rules are rules. Of course he forgets that her husband's marriage was annulled, which according to the rules of catholicism, didn't exist. Therefore, she was fired for no reason.
I hope she sues, ...and gets millions.
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you mean the blank space at the end of my last post? I don't know why that happened. Do I really "always" do that?
The quote from the brother in the article specifies the policies are for Catholic people on their faculty which seems to cleary imply that it does matter what church they attend.....specifically the Catholic church.
what part don't you get?
regarding the non-Catholic members of the faculty there's a good chance that some of them are divorced.
why 50/50?
Don't half of all marriages end in divorce?
LOL see this post had spaces in it too but only like 3 the last post had like 8 wtf is that all about?
if you read the last part of the quote you posted it also says "When a person does something that is obviously contrary to everything that our Catholic school stands for, we cannot just look through our fingers.” This statement in no way applies to just catholic teachers and therefore she is just as responsible for it as others.
No 50% percent of marriages dont end in divorce that number is greatly exaggerated the actual number is in the mid to high 30's.
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LOL see this post had spaces in it too but only like 3 the last post had like 8 wtf is that all about?
if you read the last part of the quote you posted it also says "When a person does something that is obviously contrary to everything that our Catholic school stands for, we cannot just look through our fingers.” This statement in no way applies to just catholic teachers and therefore she is just as responsible for it as others.
No 50% percent of marriages dont end in divorce that number is greatly exaggerated the actual number is in the mid to high 30's.
Nothing gets by you eh?
The spaces were intentional this time. I don't know why they were there last time.
Are we really going to keep parsing this quote?
“We have very clear policies on what we expect from Catholic people on our faculty, and there has been a violation of that,” Brother Peter Pontolillo told the Express-News. “When a person does something that is obviously contrary to everything that our Catholic school stands for, we cannot just look through our fingers.”
So you think when he specifies "Catholic people on our faculty" in the first sentence that it has no significance on the meaning of the word "person" in the second sentence". If so, why even bother saying the first sentence?
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Nothing gets by you eh?
The spaces were intentional this time. I don't know why they were there last time.
Are we really going to keep parsing this quote?
So you think when he specifies "Catholic people on our faculty" in the first sentence that it has no significance on the meaning of the word "person" in the second sentence". If so, why even bother saying the first sentence?
LOL you trying to screw with my head?
Could it maybe, you really think that the school doesnt have a code of conduct which it expects its teachers to follow? Again probably a blanket statement refferring to upholding the teachings of the school
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Exactly. It doesn't matter what her religious faith is. If she wants to teach at a Catholic school she has to follow whatever rules the Catholic church imposes, which she must have accepted at the time she started working for the school. If she had a problem with the rules she shouldn't have taken the job.
This is how religious organizations work. For example, if you want to teach at a Mormon school, you follow their guidelines. If you want to attend BYU, you abide by their code of conduct.
The only potential issue is whether they treat all employees the same:
“As a general matter, religious institutions are free to engage in religious discrimination in employment,” said Ira C. Lupu, a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School. “The question is, are they applying the policy consistently? I think the point about consistency is very important.”
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/Central_Catholic_teacher_terminated_over_marriage.html
Here's is where they will probably get stuck.
What are the odd's that they applied this same level of scrutinity and punishment to all faculty members, most especially those that are practising Catholics. Any inconsistency and they're probably screwed.
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LOL you trying to screw with my head?
Could it maybe, you really think that the school doesnt have a code of conduct which it expects its teachers to follow? Again probably a blanket statement refferring to upholding the teachings of the school
Dude - the brother being quoted specifies Catholic faculty members and from reading other articles the "beef" seems to be that she attended mass as the school and received communion (this being the crux of the matter). She ate their magic cookie.
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Here's is where they will probably get stuck.
What are the odd's that they applied this same level of scrutinity and punishment to all faculty members, most especially those that are practising Catholics. Any inconsistency and they're probably screwed.
i agree with you but we dont know their history, here is the irony if they dont apply the same rules to catholic as non catholic members is that consistent?
Dude - the brother being quoted specifies Catholic faculty members and from reading other articles the "beef" seems to be that she attended mass as the school and received communion (this being the crux of the matter). She ate their magic cookie.
LOL magic cookie, im not catholic but from what i understand you only take communion if you are catholic sooo....
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More bullshit from a corrupt "church" that allowed pedo priests to fvck little boys in the ass.
Fvck the Catholic church.
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Wow. Considering private catholic school teachers make 2/3 of what their public school counterparts make, you'd think the school would have more sense than to chase away teachers. This woman did nothing wrong, except for fall in love with someone whose past marriage didn't work.
There are teachers out there who scream at students, visit kiddy porn sites, and waste a lot of taxpayer dollars with overall sloth, and they'll all still have jobs tomorrow. This woman, who fell in love with a man who didn't marry the right woman the first time, will not.
Pretty messed up. Some ppl still live in the stone age, I suppose. They'll replace her with someone who's trapped in a loveless marriage, or someone alone, who will better fit their criteria and be a lot less happy teaching. The kids lose.
Sad but true I guess. :P
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More bullshit from a corrupt "church" that allowed pedo priests to fvck little boys in the ass.
Fvck the Catholic church.
I hate to say it, but....
Good post