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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: body88 on January 05, 2009, 09:00:50 AM
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He will be franchised by the Patriots soon. After an 11-5 season and proving that he can win in the NFL, I believe that he will be the hottest FA target this year. I don't expect the pats to make a move until draft day, but you never know. They have to be careful how they do things, because the tag and trade is frowned on by the CBA. They might have him start the first three or four games then trade him, or they might do it right before the season when Brady "makes up lots of ground with his injury ::)".
08 numbers:
6 Peyton Manning IND QB 371 555 66.8 34.7 4,002 7.2 250.1 27 12 210 37.8 75 40 7 14 95.0
7 Donovan McNabb PHI QB 345 571 60.4 35.7 3,916 6.9 244.8 23 11 196 34.3 90T 52 11 23 86.4
8 Matt Cassel NE QB 327 516 63.4 32.2 3,693 7.2 230.8 21 11 182 35.3 76T 37 6 47 89.4
I know that the bucs are 49 million under the cap. The Lions, KC (they are going after Pioli), the Niners, the Bears, the Vikes, the Jets (won't happen) and the Dolphins could all go after Cassel. If the Lions were smart, they would trade their second rounder to the pats for Cassel, throw a bank at Scott Pioli and use their first round one pick on the best DT in the draft....then trade off their second round 1 pick for a high second and also extra picks. From there they get the best OT or G available and go defense the rest of the way with all their picks. No skill position players before round 4.
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Bears will not go after him... Guranteed.
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Bears will not go after him... Guranteed.
They should, the kid the have now is not the answer. You're right though, they love to have bad qb's.
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They should, the kid the have now is not the answer. You're right though, they love to have bad qb's.
I wouldn't even say bad QB's.. The last 20 years they have not had a qb. I think that Orton can become a decent QB. I don't think he is a superstar, but I am okay as a diehard fan with keeping him on the field.
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espn reports they are going to franchise tag him to keep him another year just in case Brady is not ready to go
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espn reports they are going to franchise tag him to keep him another year just in case Brady is not ready to go
They have to say that either way (due to the CBA rules). They are keeping Cassel in case of Brady's late return, but they are going to tag and trade him. That's the real reason they franchised him.
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Can't Cassel refuse the franchise tag and become a FA if he wishes?
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Can't Cassel refuse the franchise tag and become a FA if he wishes?
No, he can refuse the tag, get tagged and then sit out for a year (in which he will still get 14 million bucks). There is no way he would do that. He knows what the pats did in drafting him when he had never thrown a pass in college. The pats are going to tag him, trade him and the 14 million will be dumped into Cassels singing bonus for a long term deal with whatever suitor that makes a play for him. Cassel has a great relashonship with the franchise and in interviews he has said that he would help the team when he could.
Rumors have the pats and Cassels agent working on trade scenarios.
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Got it.
I think your scenario makes total sense then.
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Got it.
I think your scenario makes total sense then.
Also, I don't think the pats will know if Brady will be 100% healthy until May, so this is the right thing to do from an insurance standpoint. If the pats can pull this off that would be epic. They pick 24th, they have two second round picks, two third round picks, a 4th, 5th, two sixths and a seventh this year. To get a second first rounder, or a third second rounder for Cassel would be huge. They had a huge draft this year and will have some cash peeling off the books for 09. They have quilty been rebuilding the defense (Mayo (DROTY winner), Guyton, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather and Crable over the last year, and I think one more solid draft would set them up for a long time.
Imo, in this years draft they should go
#1 LB/TE
#2 OT/DT/LB
#3 CB/RB
#4 CB
#5 WR
#6 WR/DT
#7 OT
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Also, I don't think the pats will know if Brady will be 100% healthy until May, so this is the right thing to do from an insurance standpoint. If the pats can pull this off that would be epic. They pick 24th, they have two second round picks, two third round picks, a 4th, 5th, two sixths and a seventh this year. To get a second first rounder, or a third second rounder for Cassel would be huge. They hadf a huge draft this year, and another one would put them over the top imo.
NFL network reported a week ago that Brady had an infection in his knee that could set him back till half way through the season...
then ESPN reported everything was fine and he was on schedule...
We won't know the truth until the season starts It will be interesting he will be wanted by many teams and the Pats should if trade him get a good return.
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NFL network reported a week ago that Brady had an infection in his knee that could set him back till half way through the season...
then ESPN reported everything was fine and he was on schedule...
We won't know the truth until the season starts It will be interesting he will be wanted by many teams and the Pats should if trade him get a good return.
Tom Curran from the Globe reported what you are talking about and he has very good sources. Then Peter King reported the opposite ( he also has good sources). You're right, we wont know for sure until at least May. That said, this story could have been floated so the CBA would not get all pissed off at a tag and trade. ESPN picked up both the stories I just outlined and sensationalized them.
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Also, I don't think the pats will know if Brady will be 100% healthy until May, so this is the right thing to do from an insurance standpoint. If the pats can pull this off that would be epic. They pick 24th, they have two second round picks, two third round picks, a 4th, 5th, two sixths and a seventh this year. To get a second first rounder, or a third second rounder for Cassel would be huge. They hadf a huge draft this year, and another one would put them over the top imo.
I think it makes more sense to trade Brady. I am sure I will catch hell for that statement, I just got off the phone with a buddy in SD who played pro ball and he said Brady is in LA from what he heard and might need another full reconstruction surgery. If this comes out to be true, who is to say that Brady will ever be the Brady of old. I would trade his ass for something good, who carries more weight Brady or Cassell in trade talks?
Brady is getting older as well, while Cassel is still young. I just think that if your going to talk trade look at the older, rehabing player who's name carries a lot of weight?What do you guys think about this scenario?
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vike me
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I think it makes more sense to trade Brady. I am sure I will catch hell for that statement, I just got off the phone with a buddy in SD who played pro ball and he said Brady is in LA from what he heard and might need another full reconstruction surgery. If this comes out to be true, who is to say that Brady will ever be the Brady of old. I would trade his ass for something good, who carries more weight Brady or Cassell in trade talks?
Brady is getting older as well, while Cassel is still young. I just think that if your going to talk trade look at the older, rehabing player who's name carries a lot of weight?What do you guys think about this scenario?
it is a tuff tuff decision but if Brady is out another full season and Cassel does well I think you go ahead and cut ties with Brady...at the end of the "09" season.
Now if Brady is healthy for 09 then Brady is your guy but you hold on to Cassel just in case...
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it is a tuff tuff decision but if Brady is out another full season and Cassel does well I think you go ahead and cut ties with Brady...at the end of the "09" season.
Now if Brady is healthy for 09 then Brady is your guy but you hold on to Cassel just in case...
I just think that with Cassel you have a longer career and less worrry. Who is to say that one hit to Brady's knee and his career is over for good. I wouldn't myself want the lottery ticket, I'd rather just have the young kid who looks promising...
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I think it makes more sense to trade Brady. I am sure I will catch hell for that statement, I just got off the phone with a buddy in SD who played pro ball and he said Brady is in LA from what he heard and might need another full reconstruction surgery. If this comes out to be true, who is to say that Brady will ever be the Brady of old. I would trade his ass for something good, who carries more weight Brady or Cassell in trade talks?
Brady is getting older as well, while Cassel is still young. I just think that if your going to talk trade look at the older, rehabbing player who's name carries a lot of weight?What do you guys think about this scenario?
You act like Brady is old...Brady is 31 and he is still in his prime. I appreciate what your buddy said, but I don't think thats a very credible source to have. Brady was in Boston last week at a charity event walking around just fine. further more, Peter King just flat out said that his sources tell him that Brady is doing better than expected. If anything Brady may need a bit more time to recover from the infection he got, but I don't think anyone credible is saying he needs a whole new surgery. Not here in Boston anyway.
Brady was never mobile to start with, and the injury he had will not effect him as much as people want to think. My brother tore both his MCL and PCL and he is just fine. Look at Rivers this year....he tore his ACL last year and he had the season off his life this year. Brady might be hurt more than people are letting on, but I think you stick with him until all this CBA stuff regarding the tag and trade blows over.
There is no way you trade Brady if he will make a full recovery. The pats have another kid on the team who is just like Cassel.
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I just think that with Cassel you have a longer career and less worrry. Who is to say that one hit to Brady's knee and his career is over for good. I wouldn't myself want the lottery ticket, I'd rather just have the young kid who looks promising...
Whos to say someone wont hit Cassel in the knee and tear his acl? Also, the Pats have a kid named Kevin Oconnel who they drafted in the third round that they feel pretty good about. We are just going to have to wait and see. What happens if you trade Brady and Cassel turns out to be a good but not great QB? Brady is PROVEN to be one of the greatest to ever play the game. If he is healthy you go with him 100%. The pats have proven they can draft qb's, they can get another one.
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One way or the other the Pats are in a good situation regardless who is the QB next year....
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You act like Brady is old...Brady is 31 and he is still in his prime. I appreciate what your buddy said, but I don't think that a very credible source to have. Brady was in Boston las week at a charity event walking around just fine. Further more, Peter King just flat out said that his sources tell him that Brady is doing better than expected. If anything Brady may need a bit more time to recoever from the infection he got, but I don't think anyone credible is saying he needs a whole new surgery. Not here in Boston anyway.
Brady was never mobile to start with, and the injury he had will not effect him as much as people want to think. My brother tore both his MCL and PCL and he is just fine. Look at Rivers this year, he tore his ACL last year and he had the season off his life this year.
There is no way you trade Brady if he will make a full recoevery. The pats have another kid on the team who is just like Cassel.
My buddy is usually spot on shit, but I didn't say it was fact.. I don't think that he is old (Brady), but Cassel is a lot younger. I also understand that anything could happen, fuck Cassel could get hit by a train tomorrow and then they wouldn't have him, but I am just saying that an injured QB is more likely to be re-injured then a QB who hasn't been injured. IMO.
You are correct about Brady not being a runner, but the knee could be more then they are leading onto. Walking around just fine is a lot differant then running from a 250 lb Dman, or getting hit with a helmet to the knee. I just think that until we see Brady on the knee in practice or similar situation that he is a very risky call at this point... You do make some good points.
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My buddy is usually spot on shit, but I didn't say it was fact.. I don't think that he is old (Brady), but Cassel is a lot younger. I also understand that anything could happen, fuck Cassel could get hit by a train tomorrow and then they wouldn't have him, but I am just saying that an injured QB is more likely to be re-injured then a QB who hasn't been injured. IMO.
You are correct about Brady not being a runner, but the knee could be more then they are leading onto. Walking around just fine is a lot differant then running from a 250 lb Dman, or getting hit with a helmet to the knee. I just think that until we see Brady on the knee in practice or similar situation that he is a very risky call at this point... You do make some good points.
No disrespect meant towards your buddy, but Peter King said the exact opposite of him (and he is a legit NFL reporter with good sources). That said, I'm not going to say the reports of Brady needing more surgery are false. Looking at the situation, I highly doubt the pats would carry a 28 million dollar salary if they where not confident that Cassel was going to be traded at some point. I think you would see them working on a 2 year deal if Brady was not going to be back in 09.
I think the pats were pretty clear about what happened to Brady's knee. ACL+PCL tear that was staph infected after the surgery. That injury is not as serious when the player is not mobile to start with. Brady wouldn't get very far if he was running from a DL in the first place. Brady's greatness comes from his ability to shuffle and step-up in the pocket, and also to sense pressure and process defenses very fast. Tons of guys are more athletic than Tom (including Cassel), but not many guys can read a defense as fast as Tom, or sense pressure like he can. Infact, thre are only a few guys in history that can be compared. The knee could effect him, but I don't think it will when he is all healed up. He is a pure pocket passer, and an MCL and PCL is not going to stop him from stepping and moving. Shit, Brady is better than everyone short of Manning at 90% anyway.
As you said, we have to wait and see. Also, keep in mind that you could be right about this. That would suck, but we have Cassel if the worst happens so all is not lost either way. I think Brady will be ok.
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No disrespect meant towards your buddy, but Peter King said the exact opposite of him (and he is a legit NFL reporter with good sources). That said, I'm not going to say the reports of Brady needing more surgery are false. Looking at the situation, I highly doubt the pats would carry a 28 million dollar salary if they where not confident that Cassel was going to be traded at some point. I think you would see them working on a 2 year deal if Brady was not going to be back in 09.
I think the pats were pretty clear about what happened to Brady's knee. ACL+PCL tear that was staph infected after the surgery. That injury is not as serious when the player is not mobile to start with. Brady wouldn't get very far if he was running from a DL in the first place. Brady's greatness comes from his ability to shuffle and step-up in the pocket, and also to sense pressure and process defenses very fast. Tons of guys are more athletic than Tom (including Cassel), but not many guys can read a defense as fast as Tom, or sense pressure like he can. Infact, thre are only a few guys in history that can be compared. The knee could effect him, but I don't think it will when he is all healed up. He is a pure pocket passer, and an MCL and PCL is not going to stop him from stepping and moving. Shit, Brady is better than everyone short of Manning at 90% anyway.
As you said, we have to wait and see. Also, keep in mind that you could be right about this. That would suck, but we have Cassel if the worst happens so all is not lost either way. I think Brady will be ok.
In the sports world everyone has a new rumor. SO no offense taken. From what my friend told me, he said that because of the infection that Brady will need another full blown surgery before he is ready for the field again. We will wait and see what happens for his sake I hope it's just a rumor. I just want to know how much effect the initial infection caused.
You are right about Brady being a pocket pressence, he has great pressence in the pocket and that is why he is able to do what he does. He sees all sides of the field and has a good group of guys on his line to give him time. The one guy that can read a D like Tom is Peyton. Not a big fan of the man, but it is cool to watch him change it up at the line based off of what the D looks like.
I would love to see Cassel get traded just to see what kind of production he can put up without the Pats squad with him. Lord knows he wont be going to a powerhouse, wherever he goes. lets hope he can pull a team together and that he goes somewhere with a few options.
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Sin, I forgot to mention that I saw Tom and Giselle at Bricco on Friday night, and he looked to be fine. I know you cant tell much from that, but if it was that serious I don't think he would be out and about strolling.
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Sin, I forgot to mention that I saw Tom and Giselle at Bricco on Friday night, and he looked to be fine. I know you cant tell much from that, but if it was that serious I don't think he would be out and about strolling.
No doubt, I can't see someone walking around who needs surgery, but who knows.. Is giselle as hot in person?
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No doubt, I can't see someone walking around who needs surgery, but who knows.. Is giselle as hot in person?
Yes.....but she has a very weird voice. Sounds like Paris Hilston on crack. I guess no one is perfect.
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Anybody who thinks Cassel owes the Pats anything are out of the fucking tree...Cassel could sit out the year collect 14 million and then sign a 10 year deal the following year worth more money then just about anyone in history...Or as Body88 states, he is one good terms with the Pats so if Brady isn't ready to go, he would start and get the same pay as if he sat ::) But if he got hurt, there goes his 100 million plus...No way Cassel is going to start for 14 million...He already proved himself 10fold...There isn't an agent in the world who would Jeopardize that much money...This is a business...Cassel isn't retarded...Lets not forget that the Patriots are cut throat when it comes to their players...Cassel and his agent know this, as does the union...The only way Cassel plays for the Pats next year is if they trade Brady...Can't happen any other way...
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You act like Brady is old...Brady is 31 and he is still in his prime. I appreciate what your buddy said, but I don't think thats a very credible source to have. Brady was in Boston last week at a charity event walking around just fine. further more, Peter King just flat out said that his sources tell him that Brady is doing better than expected. If anything Brady may need a bit more time to recover from the infection he got, but I don't think anyone credible is saying he needs a whole new surgery. Not here in Boston anyway.
Brady was never mobile to start with, and the injury he had will not effect him as much as people want to think. My brother tore both his MCL and PCL and he is just fine. Look at Rivers this year....he tore his ACL last year and he had the season off his life this year. Brady might be hurt more than people are letting on, but I think you stick with him until all this CBA stuff regarding the tag and trade blows over.
There is no way you trade Brady if he will make a full recovery. The pats have another kid on the team who is just like Cassel.
There is no up side to Brady...He had the best year of all time and still didn't get the ring...Cassel never really played any football and in his first real chance at playing, should be in the pro bowl...The upside of Cassel is off the charts...
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There is no up side to Brady...He had the best year of all time and still didn't get the ring...Cassel never really played any football and in his first real chance at playing, should be in the pro bowl...The upside of Cassel is off the charts...
That would be a good example if Brady didn't already win three rings in four years, and the MVP last year. Brady was also good for 5 more wins last year and 50 td's to 4 ints. Which would mean he has better upside than Cassel based on your argument (since neither of them won the sb this year or last). The pats didn't lose last years superbowl because of Brady.
I think Cassel has a lot of upside, but unless Brady is done, you go with Brady imo. I'm basing this on watching both of them since they were drafted.
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Not ure if Brady would be shopping if his knee was all messed up. That said, he still might not start the year in order to save the CBA from getting their panties in a bunch. I know this video proves nothing, but some people are talking as if Brady is in a wheel chair.
http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=0aaa3448-a8a1-48c1-8894-0ca718f6ec1a
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That said, he still might not start the year in order to save the CBA from getting their panties in a bunch.
If Brady is healthy enough to play, he'll play. There's no way he miss games he could play to pacify the CBA.
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I think Cassel has a lot of upside, but unless Brady is done, you go with Brady imo. I'm basing this on watching both of them since they were drafted.
Absolutely. Fans up here who advocate trading Brady and keeping Cassell are insane.
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If Brady is healthy enough to play, he'll play. There's no way he miss games he could play to pacify the CBA.
I could see it happening. If Brady is 90% at the start of the season they will hold him out to please the CBA and to jack Cassels trade value higher. Thats if Cassel is not traded during the draft.
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Absolutely. Fans up here who advocate trading Brady and keeping Cassell are insane.
Agreed. Brady is 31, and he threw FIFTY TWO TD'S to FOUR int's last year, with he same offensive team. Not only that, he has won 3sb's, and MVP and has led his team to a 16-0 season. Cassel is going to be very good, but Brady is the guy if he is healthy. The pats have proven that they can draft the shit out of QB's. Bledsoe, Brady and now Cassel. I am confident that O'Connel (the highest picked QB of Belichicks tenure) is going to be good to.
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Agreed. Brady is 31, and he threw FIFTY TWO TD'S to FOUR int's last year, with he same offensive team. Not only that, he has won 3sb's, and MVP and has led his team to a 16-0 season. Cassel is going to be very good, but Brady is the guy if he is healthy. The pats have proven that they can draft the shit out of QB's. Bledsoe, Brady and now Cassel. I am confident that O'Connel (the highest picked QB of Belichicks tenure) is going to be good to.
Yeah, there are few players that change the whole dynamic of a conference if they get hurt. I'll bet so many teams felt they had a chance when Brady got injured that previously didn't. It was remarkable.
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I could see it happening. If Brady is 90% at the start of the season they will hold him out to please the CBA and to jack Cassels trade value higher. Thats if Cassel is not traded during the draft.
I understand the theory, but if Cassel's still with the team next year, it means Brady's not 90%.
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I understand the theory, but if Cassel's still with the team next year, it means Brady's not 90%.
If Brady is a bit behind schedule and the pats feel the need to start Cassel and trade him a few games into the season they will do it. There is no way to know for sure. We don't know what is fact and what is fiction at this point. Things will change 100 times.
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Considering the Pats are cut throat with their players, why in the world would Cassel dare step on the field for the Pats next year with only a one year deal and possibly have a chance in fcking his legs up like Brady...That makes zero business sense...The guy played his ass off this year and is in line to sign for massive amounts of money right now...Cassel owes the Pats nothing...If Brady isn't ready to go next year, the Pats are fcked...
If Cassel sits out next year, he collects his 14 million and the Pats deal him anyway...Where ever he goes, he sits until he signs a major deal...Which would be in the neighborhood of well over 100 million...
Or Brady isn't ready to start, so Cassel plays for his 14 million(he gets away) with a possibly of hurting himself(like Brady) and his Career could possibly be done... ::)
So some of you think that Cassel is so stupid that he would leave probably well over 100 million dollars on the table just to start a couple of games for a team who is cut throat with every player as it is...Who would do such a thing...
Bottom line, the Pats have to trade Cassel or sign him and trade Brady...(Brady is probably the best to play the game so its most likey Brady is here to stay) but Cassel has to look out of Cassel and he now has nothing to prove...The money is waiting there for him right now...Cassel can not chance losing all the money for a couple games...No way...
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Absolutely. Fans up here who advocate trading Brady and keeping Cassell are insane.
Possibly...But even Brady has stated to many people over the last couple years that Cassell is a freak of nature...Brady is a work horse and Cassell is a natural athlete...I too wouldn't want to see Brady go but if his legs end up being toast, it is something that has to seriously be considered by people who know a lot more then us...
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Even injured, Brady's trade value will never be higher.
Rivers and Brees have both recovered from devastating injuries to put up monster numbers, though, so I'm sure that's being considered. But there's also Carson Palmer, who hasn't shown much of anything since getting hurt.
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Considering the Pats are cut throat with their players, why in the world would Cassel dare step on the field for the Pats next year with only a one year deal and possibly have a chance in fcking his legs up like Brady...That makes zero business sense...The guy played his ass off this year and is in line to sign for massive amounts of money right now...Cassel owes the Pats nothing...If Brady isn't ready to go next year, the Pats are fcked...
If Cassel sits out next year, he collects his 14 million and the Pats deal him anyway...Where ever he goes, he sits until he signs a major deal...Which would be in the neighborhood of well over 100 million...
Or Brady isn't ready to start, so Cassel plays for his 14 million(he gets away) with a possibly of hurting himself(like Brady) and his Career could possibly be done... ::)
So some of you think that Cassel is so stupid that he would leave probably well over 100 million dollars on the table just to start a couple of games for a team who is cut throat with every player as it is...Who would do such a thing...
Bottom line, the Pats have to trade Cassel or sign him and trade Brady...(Brady is probably the best to play the game so its most likely Brady is here to stay) but Cassel has to look out of Cassel and he now has nothing to prove...The money is waiting there for him right now...Cassel can not chance losing all the money for a couple games...No way...
If the pats franchise Cassel he has to start according to NFL rules. Cassel has always said how much he loves the pats, and how grateful he is for being drafted after never playing a down of football in college. Also, the pats stuck with Cassel when everyone in NE wanted him gone. They gave him his shot. You will see one of three things. 1.) A tag and trade, a two year deal worth 10millish per year or Brady being traded. The first two scenarios are far more likely than the last.
Cassel played last season for under 500k ad he was foaming at the mouth to do so. If the pats offer him 14 million dollars in guaranteed money to play for a year (and jack his trade value even more), or sign him to a two year deal for 20 million bones, there is no way he leaves that on the table. Imo its a moot point because he will be tagged and traded. The starting price will be what Eli Manning was had for by the Giants.
For the record, the pats are not cutthroat with all their players. They stuck with Cassel after a very poor showing last year spelling Brady is games, and also a very poor preseason. The guys the pat have told to hit the brick are players who are not performing, or guys who are all about the money, and that demand more than the system deems them worth. Qb's very valuable to the pats. They will offer him a more than fair deal.
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Even injured, Brady's trade value will never be higher.
Rivers and Brees have both recovered from devastating injuries to put up monster numbers, though, so I'm sure that's being considered. But there's also Carson Palmer, who hasn't shown much of anything since getting hurt.
You're right and I have been saying this all along. Rivers had his entire ACL replaced and he just had the best season of his career this year. Breeze was thought of as damaged good after he was hurt, not so much now after passing for 5000+ yards. Brady's injury was not as severe as Palmer's (where the knee cap was shattered along with the PCL being torn). In short, Plamer blew out the entire knee, including damage to the cap of the knee. Brady had a slight MCL and a torn ACL. He may come back late, but he will be back.