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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: MuscleMcMannus on January 25, 2009, 12:09:31 AM
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I guess while we are at it....we might as well take on China. ::)
http://progressive.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/article.php?article_id=283
A terrifying development has taken place in Asia. Iran has considered allowing China to construct a military base on one of its Persian Gulf ports. This significant geopolitical move would unsettle the U.S. superpower’s unrivaled hegemony in the oil region. Yet this action is a microcosm of a larger reshuffling of geopolitical power in Asia, particularly in regard to two of its most powerful nations: Iran and China. These events have taken place in a new context that breaks from the Cold War landscape and that responds directly to American policies. This event shows that tension is reaching a new level and may represent a new foreign policy for Iran. This growing desperation in Iran is a loud warning sign to Washington that its policy of nonengagement isn’t working and is only further alienating Iran, which will only harden the regime and diminish popular resistance.
It is clear that China is interested in growth at any cost, is happy to trade and engage with dictators, ignore human rights abuses, and secure necessary resources even from some of the worst regimes on earth. China’s engagement with Iran not only undermines the West’s embargo and exclusion, but also stabilizes and empowers the Iranian regime. China has been aggressively pursuing oil and gas resources to fuel its voracious growth and remains heavily dependent on energy imports from Iran and the other Persian Gulf states. China’s largest oil refiner, Sinopec, has just finalized a multi-billion dollar deal to develop the massive oil field in Yadavaran, Iran, in addition to the “deal of the century” contract to tap Iran’s immense North Pars natural gas fields.
The ties do not end at oil, as China has already surpassed Germany to become Iran’s number one trade partner. Chinese contractors are already busy constructing oil terminals for Iran in the Caspian Sea, expanding the Tehran metro system, and building airports. The two nations have entered into a number of cooperation agreements. Most alarmingly, China has been happily supplying Iran with ballistic missile technology and air-defense radar systems.
The U.S. frustrated China with its recent turnaround in support of India’s civilian nuclear program, commonly viewed as a long-term plan to counter rising Chinese power with a friendly nuclear democracy on the continent. China is on track to become the greatest power in Asia politically, economically, and culturally, and is aggressively seeking international respect, which it well deserves. China is not just a faceless threat, but a rising power and potentially strong ally. Now is the time to engage with China and encourage its growth, but also challenge its human rights and environmental record, and support its democratic stirrings that were crushed at Tiananmen. Yet while China’s actions perhaps foreshadow larger issues for the future, the most immediate threat now is Iran.
Iran’s consideration of a Chinese military base on its territory presents a dangerous possibility for the region and proves that condemning the actors from afar without diplomatic links will neither insure peace nor further U.S. Interests. This policy has only further hardened the regime against a perceived aggressor and given the Iranian regime an opponent against which to define itself. Some have suggested that Iran is on the verge of collapse and another Revolution, but this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, particularly after Bush’s policies that have only strengthened the regime rather than weakened it.
Much in the way the U.S. maintains constructive relationships with China while strongly opposing and condemning certain aspects of its internal and international policies, Washington should approach Iran with an openness to common interest while continuing to denounce dangerous policies. Any real rapprochement of Tehran can only occur in the context of meaningful engagement on the most pressing issues of nuclear development, terrorism, and regional stability.
The U.S. must have a new strategy for a new century. While Iran may not actually follow through with its threat, the U.S. must take its quest for attention and respect seriously and engage directly with Iran. The U.S.’s influence in Asia will continue to diminish as China rises as a world power and talking tough will only accelerate this decline. By engaging directly with Iran and China, the U.S. can both legitimate and challenge the regime and promote democracy. The Obama administration will fundamentally reshape American foreign policy, but the pressure is on us to challenge our adversaries in a way that will both advance our national interest and further peace and (hopefully) democracy in the Middle East.
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wonderful. just great.
hey, let's piss off the world for 8 years because we can do anything we want.
They can't do anything, except form alliances, limit oil access, and build bases next to ours.
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wonderful. just great.
hey, let's piss off the world for 8 years because we can do anything we want.
They can't do anything, except form alliances, limit oil access, and build bases next to ours.
I'm sure HH6 will come on here saying how China is no match for the US. We can take em.......grrrrrrr! Meanwhile they have us by our financial balls.
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Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.
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Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.
i'm all about us supremacy. I just don't like when our leaders have that braggadocio to them. Bush acted like a jerk, said he didn't care what the world thought, and many dumped the buck as a result. Act humble and carry a large stick. Don't stand up and brag about being the decider - just make decisions.
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As regards China...Bush did just that. Our Treasury sec....or soon to be T Sec has made the Chinese very unhappy over recent comments about currency value.
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Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.
You can only win militarily, ...if you have the ability to finance the war.
Do you think China would bankroll a US war against it? you must be on drugs. ::)
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You can only win militarily, ...if you have the ability to finance the war.
Do you think China would bankroll a US war against it? you must be on drugs. ::)
Genius, if the US will go to war against China the first thing it will do will be to write off it's debt.
That will free up tons of optional debt.
So yeah...you need to get back to selling hoax pills.
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Genius, if the US will go to war against China the first thing it will do will be to write off it's debt.
That will free up tons of optional debt.
???
This is the first I've heard of this.
In the past five years, China has spent as much as one-seventh of its entire economic output on the purchase of foreign debt -most to us. 1.4 trillion - more than any other country.
We currently borrow untold billions each day to maintain our way of life. Despite this, states and banks and companies are still failing.
Yes, the first thing we would do is "write off" that debt. This would make the dollar worthless, and 50 other countries of the world would dump this worthless paper overnight. If you remove 15% of the 10 tril debt instantly, it's finished.
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If we're in a war with China, debt and the dollar won't really matter will it. What kind of circumstances have to happen for us to go to war with China. Yeah china is going to war with its cash cow. Wacking the guy who owes u money, pour billions into ur country in contracts and trade goods.....not happening.
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Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.
Haha Mr. CIA intelligence says China is "several" generations behind us? You're clueless if you think that. ::)
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Haha Mr. CIA intelligence says China is "several" generations behind us? You're clueless if you think that. ::)
what do you mean headhuntersix is all knowing.Because he's in the military.he's being all he can be ;D
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Haha Mr. CIA intelligence says China is "several" generations behind us? You're clueless if you think that. ::)
Lets go bro...what do they have. What secret military knowledge do u have that I might have missed.....don't just post some snarky comment and run away. Debate there expert on everything....
When was the last time the Chinese deployed combat forces in a major way...... Vietnam in 1979. When was the last time they conducted joint combat operations with all areas of their military...never. We're doing it as we speak. There is more to combat then numbers. Sure they have a very good defensive infrastructure...no real blue water navy....no combat trained land force etc. Considering I can actually debate this topic with facts.....not cut and paste articles, ur going to loose. I know well what they can and can't do.
Hey big dawg....I do this for a living, I know a bit more then ol muscles mick whiny... and its army strong now.
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Lets go bro...what do they have. What secret military knowledge do u have that I might have missed.....don't just post some snarky comment and run away. Debate there expert on everything....
When was the last time the Chinese deployed combat forces in a major way...... Vietnam in 1979. When was the last time they conducted joint combat operations with all areas of their military...never. We're doing it as we speak. There is more to combat then numbers. Sure they have a very good defensive infrastructure...no real blue water navy....no combat trained land force etc. Considering I can actually debate this topic with facts.....not cut and paste articles, ur going to loose. I know well what they can and can't do.
Hey big dawg....I do this for a living, I know a bit more then ol muscles mick whiny... and its army strong now.
You said China is several generations behind in military technology. They may not be a match toe to toe for the U.S. right now......but they are expanding and are a very challenging adversary. To brush them off as some sort of pesky annoyance militarily is naive.
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If we're in a war with China, debt and the dollar won't really matter will it. What kind of circumstances have to happen for us to go to war with China. Yeah china is going to war with its cash cow. Wacking the guy who owes u money, pour billions into ur country in contracts and trade goods.....not hapening.
Exactly, the US is China's biggest debt.
And 240 doesn't understand that when you go to war you tell that fucker to fuck off and erase his debt.
The rest of the world will actually be happy since they will know that the US have more free money to pay them and soon enough will conquer China.
Some of you really don't understand what it means to be technologically advanced in military terms, people haven't seen a full scale war in decades.
You all keep thinking terrorists wars, full scale war are somewhat "easier" since you know who is your target and you gather tons of info on him for decades, military bases can't put civilian clothes and disappear in a crowd like a terrorist.
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You said China is several generations behind in military technology. They may not be a match toe to toe for the U.S. right now......but they are expanding and are a very challenging adversary. To brush them off as some sort of pesky annoyance militarily is naive.
I know very well what China can and can't do in abroad sense. See half of what I do is Information Operations, under that large umbrella is several things. Mil dec or military desception/Psyop/cyber intrusion/electronic warfare/ and some other area's. After Georgia we got a classified brief on the cyber attacks on the Georgian infrastructure, by the Russians. 2.5 hours of that brief was spent on chinese cyber capablities. They are very good at it. Wrapped in that brief was about 40 min summary of the conventional threat assessment of the PLA/PLAF/ and their Navy. Again I'm not blowing them off....but i think I have a much better position on how good they are then u do.
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I know very well what China can and can't do in abroad sense. See half of what I do is Information Operations, under that large umbrella is several things. Mil dec or military desception/Psyop/cyber intrusion/electronic warfare/ and some other area's. After Georgia we got a classified brief on the cyber attacks on the Georgian infrastructure, by the Russians. 2.5 hours of that brief was spent on chinese cyber capablities. They are very good at it. Wrapped in that brief was about 40 min summary of the conventional threat assessment of the PLA/PLAF/ and their Navy. Again I'm not blowing them off....but i think I have a much better position on how good they are then u do.
Obviously you don't if you think they are "several generations" behind us in technology. They don't spend nearly as much as we do on defense. But that's changing. They have just as much technological potential and innovation in their country to become a superpower. Especially with all the people selling them US missile and nuclear technology.
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Muscles...flashy bullshit is great....but grunts fight wars....ur not getting it. Stick to ur day job and I'll stick to mine.
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Muscles...flashy bullshit is great....but grunts fight wars....ur not getting it. Stick to ur day job and I'll stick to mine.
Hey dumbass you're not a "grunt". You pick up trash and sit behind a computer.
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Yet another outstandingly witty comment by MuscleMcMannus.
Excellent!
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Obviously you don't if you think they are "several generations" behind us in technology. They don't spend nearly as much as we do on defense. But that's changing. They have just as much technological potential and innovation in their country to become a superpower. Especially with all the people selling them US missile and nuclear technology.
Do you realize that some Intel fabs are located in specific countries and not China because of the technology? The US government doesn't allow that tech to be in some countries and that's civilian tech.
Spending lots of money now won't mean they can suddenly evaporate a gap of decades of spending and researching and collaborating with other advanced nations like the US did.
Why do you think the A bomb is still rare? Because its a secret and you need to reinvent it....hardly something easy, most of the countries who got the bomb decades ago got it through spying.
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Hey dumbass you're not a "grunt". You pick up trash and sit behind a computer.
Ur right....damm I've been owned by a worthless ct wackjob....I better go hide in shame...oh wait muscle uninformed opinion doesn't really matter...u bring nothing to the board.
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Do you realize that some Intel fabs are located in specific countries and not China because of the technology? The US government doesn't allow that tech to be in some countries and that's civilian tech.
Spending lots of money now won't mean they can suddenly evaporate a gap of decades of spending and researching and collaborating with other advanced nations like the US did.
Why do you think the A bomb is still rare? Because its a secret and you need to reinvent it....hardly something easy, most of the countries who got the bomb decades ago got it through spying.
So is it safe to say the US in the 1940s was more scientifically advanced than most of the rest of the world is today?
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So is it safe to say the US in the 1940s was more scientifically advanced than most of the rest of the world is today?
In some terms yes.
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In some terms yes.
WRONG! A lot of our technological advancement came not only from our adaptation to WWII but from Nazi scientists. Many of the best and brightest Nazi scientists came to work for America after the war.
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Which helped our space, nuclear and ballistic weapons programs....
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Which helped our space, nuclear and ballistic weapons programs....
Yeah but unforutnately 20 years from now our kids are so fucking lazy and stupid we will end up being 20 years behind China technologically speaking. It's scary to think of the younger generations living now will be leading this once great nation.
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My son is 14 and is not lazy...there are plenty of kids working hard, doing well and they'll lead. I'm sorry if u think that Americans' suck or we're doomed. The Chinese have a massive population to feed and much of their country is borderline 3rd world. Much like their military, some modern units and a huge majority working with 1960's tech and training.
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My son is 14 and is not lazy...there are plenty of kids working hard, doing well and they'll lead. I'm sorry if u think that Americans' suck or we're doomed. The Chinese have a massive population to feed and much of their country is borderline 3rd world. Much like their military, some modern units and a huge majority working with 1960's tech and training.
LOL I knew you'd come back with that remark. The US public education systme is a joke. A big sinkhole of government spending with the usual dismal piss poor results. Of course not all kids are lazy and stupid. But the average American kid is spoiled, lazy, not nearly as smart as their foreign counterpart. Many kids in Russia are learning 6th grade math in 3rd grade. Maybe your kid goes to private school who knows. I don't hate my country. I hate the direction it is headed thanks to our corrupt and shitty government. I'm American to the core. I don't think we suck buddy. But you can bet your ass that if we keep heading in the direction we are heading we will suck. See I'm the type of person that focuses on our problems so that change can come.......instead of burying my head in the sand and telling myself how great everything is.
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On the state level, public education is by far the largest cash-burner. I saw somewhere that Cali is #1 in school expenditures, yet in the bottom 5 in performance.
Maybe it's different in Massachusetts
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On the state level, public education is by far the largest cash-burner. I saw somewhere that Cali is #1 in school expenditures, yet in the bottom 5 in performance.
Maybe it's different in Massachusetts
What's funny is Washington DC spends more on public education and has even more dismal results than California. HAHA.
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Yeah but unforutnately 20 years from now our kids are so fucking lazy and stupid we will end up being 20 years behind China technologically speaking. It's scary to think of the younger generations living now will be leading this once great nation.
MIT and other institutions undergrads,grads and PhD students will disagree with you.
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MIT and other institutions undergrads,grads and PhD students will disagree with you.
Haha and what's your argument there genius? MIT is only 10,000 students. Not even a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of the world population. And have you ever stepped foot in MIT? No you probably haven't. It's filled with Asians, Hispanics, and Indians. In fact Asians represent over a quarter of all undergraduates at MIT. Why don't you guess the percentage of Asians that make up the US population???????????? It's much much lower. You have no point and no argument. You know why? Because many many minorities especially Asians and Indians are loyal not to America but to their home country. You'd be surprised at how many foreigners come here to study, take advantage of our welfare nation and move back to their country. MIT is one of the biggest fucking recipients of government money. Get your facts straight before you go off at the mouth!
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HAHA According to your video L dawg we will need another planet Earth to satisfy China's growing economy. LMAO! The world is fucked! WWIII will happen in my lifetime that's for sure.
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Haha and what's your argument there genius? MIT is only 10,000 students. Not even a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of the world population. And have you ever stepped foot in MIT? No you probably haven't. It's filled with Asians, Hispanics, and Indians. In fact Asians represent over a quarter of all undergraduates at MIT. Why don't you guess the percentage of Asians that make up the US population???????????? It's much much lower. You have no point and no argument. You know why? Because many many minorities especially Asians and Indians are loyal not to America but to their home country. You'd be surprised at how many foreigners come here to study, take advantage of our welfare nation and move back to their country. MIT is one of the biggest fucking recipients of government money. Get your facts straight before you go off at the mouth!
Your posts make no sense, stop smoking crack.
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Your posts make no sense, stop smoking crack.
that was a well thought out retort right there :-\
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that was a well thought out retort right there :-\
I'm tired of explaining things to people on this board who are obviously not here for a debate or education but rather come here to spout some retarded propaganda.
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I'm tired of explaining things to people on this board who are obviously not here for a debate or education but rather come here to spout some retarded propaganda.
No your tired of people who don't agree with you and spoonfeed your bullshit. Same goes for HH6. You're not educated. Far from it. Look at your silly avatar.
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I'm tired of explaining things to people on this board who are obviously not here for a debate or education but rather come here to spout some retarded propaganda.
Fact is 26% of Asians make up the student body at MIT. I posted FACTS.
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Yes, we still have smart kids.
However, the trend is that there is a whole new generation of Indians, chinamen, and other nations where they are indeed catching up.
We still have the best schools in the world. BUT in a generation or two, when this group of learners goes home and re-teachers what they've learned here... we are going to be in trouble.
Our lead is shrinking. Due to the internet and many other reasons. to deny it's shrinking would be insane. To say "we're still winning, so blow me" is naive too. They're gaining ground on us. And we can't have the 37th best (or wherever we are) education system in the world for long until that trickles upward to colleges.
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Yes, we still have smart kids.
However, the trend is that there is a whole new generation of Indians, chinamen, and other nations where they are indeed catching up.
We still have the best schools in the world. BUT in a generation or two, when this group of learners goes home and re-teachers what they've learned here... we are going to be in trouble.
Our lead is shrinking. Due to the internet and many other reasons. to deny it's shrinking would be insane. To say "we're still winning, so blow me" is naive too. They're gaining ground on us. And we can't have the 37th best (or wherever we are) education system in the world for long until that trickles upward to colleges.
Of course it's shrinking. The rest of the world is going to play catch up eventually. Whether they pass us or not is the question. And frankly, I don't think they will. China has plenty of their own massive problems brewing. And all these "asians" at MIT and what not are mostly American born. I can't say I'm positive because I didn't look at the statistic but I find it hard to believe that 2,600 of the 10,000 students at MIT are Asian born.
Edit: Just looked it up. 3,000 international students at MIT including undergrad and graduate, with 50% being from Asia (China, India, Japan, Thailand, etc...)
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Of course it's shrinking. The rest of the world is going to play catch up eventually. Whether they pass us or not is the question. And frankly, I don't think they will. China has plenty of their own massive problems brewing. And all these "asians" at MIT and what not are mostly American born. I can't say I'm positive because I didn't look at the statistic but I find it hard to believe that 2,600 of the 10,000 students at MIT are Asian born.
Edit: Just looked it up. 3,000 international students at MIT including undergrad and graduate, with 50% being from Asia (China, India, Japan, Thailand, etc...)
Bingo!
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Bingo!
What bingo? You implied that 3,000 students are from China. I would reckon the distribution is probably pretty even among Chinese, Indian and Japanese students. Too lazy to dig up exact country numbers.
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What bingo? You implied that 3,000 students are from China. I would reckon the distribution is probably pretty even among Chinese, Indian and Japanese students. Too lazy to dig up exact country numbers.
26% of undergrads are Asian. Combine that with your stats genius not many at MIT are American born caucasians. LOL. You're a bright one!
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26% of undergrads are Asian. Combine that with your stats genius not many at MIT are American born caucasians. LOL. You're a bright one!
Who the fuck is talking about caucasians? There are more than just caucasians in this country who fit the term "American". You were proven wrong, your point is moot. You're implying that 3,000 students at MIT are from China, when in reality, it's probably 600 or so. ;)
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Because I'm in the mood to prove you wrong, I just did the numbers. There are 10,299 students at MIT. 26% would be 2677. However, there are only 3005 international students at MIT, with 51% of them being Asian. That means there are approximately 1533 Asians there. The term Asian encompasses Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, etc. Let's be generous and say half of those 1533 asians are Chinese. That would still only be 777 students. So you were again proven wrong. Maybe next time you won't feel like pulling statistics out of your ass.
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Because I'm in the mood to prove you wrong, I just did the numbers. There are 10,299 students at MIT. 26% would be 2677. However, there are only 3005 international students at MIT, with 51% of them being Asian. That means there are approximately 1533 Asians there. The term Asian encompasses Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, etc. Let's be generous and say half of those 1533 asians are Chinese. That would still only be 777 students. So you were again proven wrong. Maybe next time you won't feel like pulling statistics out of your ass.
Thanks, I was too tired of proving them wrong.
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You guys haven't proved shit. LOL. MIT is only ~10K students. The entire US public education system sucks. The bottomline is foreign kids are smarter, and doing much better than their American counterpart. Higher Education might be a little different as far as statistics. But that's because there is a greater % of foreign students who come to this country to learn. But let's get back to this argument in 10-20 years.
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No muscles but unlike u, he used some thought instead of hurling insults. I'd love to hear what u do for a living, life experience etc....ur an idiot...please find another board.
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No muscles but unlike u, he used some thought instead of hurling insults. I'd love to hear what u do for a living, life experience etc....ur an idiot...please find another board.
LMAO. Says the idiot middle aged father who spends his hours on a fucking bodybuilding website. If I'm your age with a 14 year old son and family and I'm still plugging away on here.....shoot me.
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LMAO. Says the idiot middle aged father who spends his hours on a fucking bodybuilding website. If I'm your age with a 14 year old son and family and I'm still plugging away on here.....shoot me.
No logic, what does age have to do with it? So you claim that only young and stupid people should be at Getbig? Because when they are old and smart they know better? And you also admit to being young and stupid?
Wow...simply wow.
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No logic, what does age have to do with it? So you claim that only young and stupid people should be at Getbig? Because when they are old and smart they know better? And you also admit to being young and stupid?
Wow...simply wow.
3 out of 4 posts on this getbig are fucking moronic and childish. And I don't even see HH6 even posting in the other forums. The political forum is his stomping grounds. Probably because this is the only website he can hold his own.............again which doesn't say much. If he went to another board that was purely a foreign policy or political board (aka www.ronpaulforums.com) he'd have his ass handed to him. Most of the content on getbig is pretty fucking childish. Hence why its the most entertaining board.
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No logic, what does age have to do with it? So you claim that only young and stupid people should be at Getbig? Because when they are old and smart they know better? And you also admit to being young and stupid?
Wow...simply wow.
I mean look at your fucking avatar. How old are you? 16?
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3 out of 4 posts on this getbig are fucking moronic and childish. And I don't even see HH6 even posting in the other forums. The political forum is his stomping grounds. Probably because this is the only website he can hold his own.............again which doesn't say much. If he went to another board that was purely a foreign policy or political board (aka www.ronpaulforums.com) he'd have his ass handed to him. Most of the content on getbig is pretty fucking childish. Hence why its the most entertaining board.
I'm 34 there toughguy...I post here because its fun. If I lived ur boring worthless life I'd have ended it a long time ago. Its amazing how much time u just spent worring about me. I post on several forums and blogs.....I don't post on the other boards because the level of moronic banter is way to high.
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you do have to kinda question a guy on a bodybuilding forum that only post on the political part.
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I mean look at your fucking avatar. How old are you? 16?
Yawn, I knew you were borderline illiterate but now you just admit it, in case you missed it, there is a writing in the avatar "I got the ban stick", might have to do with me having access to another account on this board, a moderator account.
So you admit you do actions you think are wrong and foolish? How about you explode yourself in a market full of people, you seem to support to actions bitch.
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Hugo?
Is that you?
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Hugo?
Is that you?
Hell no, fuck that liberal asshole.