Author Topic: China building military bases in Iran!  (Read 3192 times)

MuscleMcMannus

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China building military bases in Iran!
« on: January 25, 2009, 12:09:31 AM »
I guess while we are at it....we might as well take on China.   ::)

http://progressive.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/article.php?article_id=283


A terrifying development has taken place in Asia. Iran has considered allowing China to construct a military base on one of its Persian Gulf ports. This significant geopolitical move would unsettle the U.S. superpower’s unrivaled hegemony in the oil region. Yet this action is a microcosm of a larger reshuffling of geopolitical power in Asia, particularly in regard to two of its most powerful nations: Iran and China. These events have taken place in a new context that breaks from the Cold War landscape and that responds directly to American policies. This event shows that tension is reaching a new level and may represent a new foreign policy for Iran. This growing desperation in Iran is a loud warning sign to Washington that its policy of nonengagement isn’t working and is only further alienating Iran, which will only harden the regime and diminish popular resistance.

It is clear that China is interested in growth at any cost, is happy to trade and engage with dictators, ignore human rights abuses, and secure necessary resources even from some of the worst regimes on earth. China’s engagement with Iran not only undermines the West’s embargo and exclusion, but also stabilizes and empowers the Iranian regime. China has been aggressively pursuing oil and gas resources to fuel its voracious growth and remains heavily dependent on energy imports from Iran and the other Persian Gulf states. China’s largest oil refiner, Sinopec, has just finalized a multi-billion dollar deal to develop the massive oil field in Yadavaran, Iran, in addition to the “deal of the century” contract to tap Iran’s immense North Pars natural gas fields.

The ties do not end at oil, as China has already surpassed Germany to become Iran’s number one trade partner. Chinese contractors are already busy constructing oil terminals for Iran in the Caspian Sea, expanding the Tehran metro system, and building airports. The two nations have entered into a number of cooperation agreements. Most alarmingly, China has been happily supplying Iran with ballistic missile technology and air-defense radar systems.

The U.S. frustrated China with its recent turnaround in support of India’s civilian nuclear program, commonly viewed as a long-term plan to counter rising Chinese power with a friendly nuclear democracy on the continent. China is on track to become the greatest power in Asia politically, economically, and culturally, and is aggressively seeking international respect, which it well deserves. China is not just a faceless threat, but a rising power and potentially strong ally. Now is the time to engage with China and encourage its growth, but also challenge its human rights and environmental record, and support its democratic stirrings that were crushed at Tiananmen. Yet while China’s actions perhaps foreshadow larger issues for the future, the most immediate threat now is Iran.

Iran’s consideration of a Chinese military base on its territory presents a dangerous possibility for the region and proves that condemning the actors from afar without diplomatic links will neither insure peace nor further U.S. Interests. This policy has only further hardened the regime against a perceived aggressor and given the Iranian regime an opponent against which to define itself. Some have suggested that Iran is on the verge of collapse and another Revolution, but this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, particularly after Bush’s policies that have only strengthened the regime rather than weakened it.

Much in the way the U.S. maintains constructive relationships with China while strongly opposing and condemning certain aspects of its internal and international policies, Washington should approach Iran with an openness to common interest while continuing to denounce dangerous policies. Any real rapprochement of Tehran can only occur in the context of meaningful engagement on the most pressing issues of nuclear development, terrorism, and regional stability.

The U.S. must have a new strategy for a new century. While Iran may not actually follow through with its threat, the U.S. must take its quest for attention and respect seriously and engage directly with Iran. The U.S.’s influence in Asia will continue to diminish as China rises as a world power and talking tough will only accelerate this decline. By engaging directly with Iran and China, the U.S. can both legitimate and challenge the regime and promote democracy. The Obama administration will fundamentally reshape American foreign policy, but the pressure is on us to challenge our adversaries in a way that will both advance our national interest and further peace and (hopefully) democracy in the Middle East.

240 is Back

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 05:39:35 AM »
wonderful.  just great. 

hey, let's piss off the world for 8 years because we can do anything we want.

They can't do anything, except form alliances, limit oil access, and build bases next to ours.

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 05:50:14 AM »
wonderful.  just great. 

hey, let's piss off the world for 8 years because we can do anything we want.

They can't do anything, except form alliances, limit oil access, and build bases next to ours.

I'm sure HH6 will come on here saying how China is no match for the US.  We can take em.......grrrrrrr!  Meanwhile they have us by our financial balls. 

headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 11:51:23 AM »
Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.
L

240 is Back

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 12:00:52 PM »
Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.

i'm all about us supremacy.  I just don't like when our leaders have that braggadocio to them.  Bush acted like a jerk, said he didn't care what the world thought, and many dumped the buck as a result.  Act humble and carry a large stick.  Don't stand up and brag about being the decider - just make decisions.

headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 03:48:41 PM »
As regards China...Bush did just that. Our Treasury sec....or soon to be T Sec has made the Chinese very unhappy over recent comments about currency value.
L

24KT

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 04:40:57 PM »
Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.

You can only win militarily, ...if you have the ability to finance the war.

Do you think China would bankroll a US war against it? you must be on drugs.  ::)
w

IFBBwannaB

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 09:11:47 PM »
You can only win militarily, ...if you have the ability to finance the war.

Do you think China would bankroll a US war against it? you must be on drugs.  ::)


Genius, if the US will go to war against China the first thing it will do will be to write off it's debt.
That will free up tons of optional debt.

So yeah...you need to get back to selling hoax pills.

240 is Back

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 10:03:44 PM »
Genius, if the US will go to war against China the first thing it will do will be to write off it's debt.
That will free up tons of optional debt.

???

This is the first I've heard of this.

In the past five years, China has spent as much as one-seventh of its entire economic output on the purchase of foreign debt -most to us.  1.4 trillion - more than any other country.

We currently borrow untold billions each day to maintain our way of life.  Despite this, states and banks and companies are still failing.

Yes, the first thing we would do is "write off" that debt.  This would make the dollar worthless, and 50 other countries of the world would dump this worthless paper overnight.  If you remove 15% of the 10 tril debt instantly, it's finished.



headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 07:15:58 AM »
If we're in a war with China, debt and the dollar won't really matter will it. What kind of circumstances have to happen for us to go to war with China. Yeah china is going to war with its cash cow. Wacking the guy who owes u money, pour billions into ur country in contracts and trade goods.....not happening.
L

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 09:38:48 AM »
Uh yeah..militarily we can...they're several generations behind us in most area's. So what, we're not going to war with china anytime soon. Now u guys love China and Iran...240 really ur too much.

Haha Mr. CIA intelligence says China is "several" generations behind us?  You're clueless if you think that.   ::)

big L dawg

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 09:48:45 AM »
Haha Mr. CIA intelligence says China is "several" generations behind us?  You're clueless if you think that.   ::)

what do you mean headhuntersix is all knowing.Because he's in the military.he's being all he can be ;D
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headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2009, 10:18:16 AM »
Haha Mr. CIA intelligence says China is "several" generations behind us?  You're clueless if you think that.   ::)

Lets go bro...what do they have. What secret military knowledge do u have that I might have missed.....don't just post some snarky comment and run away. Debate there expert on everything....

When was the last time the Chinese deployed combat forces in a major way......  Vietnam in 1979. When was the last time they conducted joint combat operations with all areas of their military...never. We're doing it as we speak. There is more to combat then numbers. Sure they have a very good defensive infrastructure...no real blue water navy....no combat trained land force etc. Considering I can actually debate this topic with facts.....not cut and paste articles, ur going to loose. I know well what they can and can't do.

Hey big dawg....I do this for a living, I know a bit more then ol muscles mick whiny... and its army strong now.
L

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2009, 10:29:33 AM »
Lets go bro...what do they have. What secret military knowledge do u have that I might have missed.....don't just post some snarky comment and run away. Debate there expert on everything....

When was the last time the Chinese deployed combat forces in a major way......  Vietnam in 1979. When was the last time they conducted joint combat operations with all areas of their military...never. We're doing it as we speak. There is more to combat then numbers. Sure they have a very good defensive infrastructure...no real blue water navy....no combat trained land force etc. Considering I can actually debate this topic with facts.....not cut and paste articles, ur going to loose. I know well what they can and can't do.

Hey big dawg....I do this for a living, I know a bit more then ol muscles mick whiny... and its army strong now.

You said China is several generations behind in military technology.  They may not be a match toe to toe for the U.S. right now......but they are expanding and are a very challenging adversary.  To brush them off as some sort of pesky annoyance militarily is naive. 

IFBBwannaB

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2009, 11:57:54 AM »
If we're in a war with China, debt and the dollar won't really matter will it. What kind of circumstances have to happen for us to go to war with China. Yeah china is going to war with its cash cow. Wacking the guy who owes u money, pour billions into ur country in contracts and trade goods.....not hapening.

Exactly, the US is China's biggest debt.

And 240 doesn't understand that when you go to war you tell that fucker to fuck off and erase his debt.
The rest of the world will actually be happy since they will know that the US have more free money to pay them and soon enough will conquer China.

Some of you really don't understand what it means to be technologically advanced in military terms, people haven't seen a full scale war in decades.

You all keep thinking terrorists wars, full scale war are somewhat "easier" since you know who is your target and you gather tons of info on him for decades, military bases can't put civilian clothes and disappear in a crowd like a terrorist.

headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2009, 12:23:54 PM »
You said China is several generations behind in military technology.  They may not be a match toe to toe for the U.S. right now......but they are expanding and are a very challenging adversary.  To brush them off as some sort of pesky annoyance militarily is naive. 

I know very well what China can and can't do in abroad sense. See half of what I do is Information Operations, under that large umbrella is several things. Mil dec or military desception/Psyop/cyber intrusion/electronic warfare/ and some other area's. After Georgia we got a classified brief on the cyber attacks on the Georgian infrastructure, by the Russians. 2.5 hours of that brief was spent on chinese cyber capablities. They are very good at it. Wrapped in that brief was about 40 min summary of the conventional threat assessment of the PLA/PLAF/ and their Navy. Again I'm not blowing them off....but i think I have a much better position on how good they are then u do.
L

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 02:32:42 PM »
I know very well what China can and can't do in abroad sense. See half of what I do is Information Operations, under that large umbrella is several things. Mil dec or military desception/Psyop/cyber intrusion/electronic warfare/ and some other area's. After Georgia we got a classified brief on the cyber attacks on the Georgian infrastructure, by the Russians. 2.5 hours of that brief was spent on chinese cyber capablities. They are very good at it. Wrapped in that brief was about 40 min summary of the conventional threat assessment of the PLA/PLAF/ and their Navy. Again I'm not blowing them off....but i think I have a much better position on how good they are then u do.

Obviously you don't if you think they are "several generations" behind us in technology.  They don't spend nearly as much as we do on defense.  But that's changing.  They have just as much technological potential and innovation in their country to become a superpower.  Especially with all the people selling them US missile and nuclear technology. 

headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 04:18:50 PM »
Muscles...flashy bullshit is great....but grunts fight wars....ur not getting it. Stick to ur day job and I'll stick to mine.
L

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 10:21:57 PM »
Muscles...flashy bullshit is great....but grunts fight wars....ur not getting it. Stick to ur day job and I'll stick to mine.

Hey dumbass you're not a "grunt".  You pick up trash and sit behind a computer. 

Hereford

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 11:17:58 PM »
Yet another outstandingly witty comment by MuscleMcMannus.

Excellent!

IFBBwannaB

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2009, 11:48:02 PM »
Obviously you don't if you think they are "several generations" behind us in technology.  They don't spend nearly as much as we do on defense.  But that's changing.  They have just as much technological potential and innovation in their country to become a superpower.  Especially with all the people selling them US missile and nuclear technology. 


Do you realize that some Intel fabs are located in specific countries and not China because of the technology? The US government doesn't allow that tech to be in some countries and that's civilian tech.

Spending lots of money now won't mean they can suddenly evaporate a gap of decades of spending and researching and collaborating with other advanced nations like the US did.

Why do you think the A bomb is still rare? Because its a secret and you need to reinvent it....hardly something easy, most of the countries who got the bomb decades ago got it through spying.


headhuntersix

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2009, 06:29:50 AM »
Hey dumbass you're not a "grunt".  You pick up trash and sit behind a computer. 


Ur right....damm I've been owned by a worthless  ct wackjob....I better go hide in shame...oh wait muscle uninformed opinion doesn't really matter...u bring nothing to the board.
L

Hereford

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2009, 08:49:59 AM »

Do you realize that some Intel fabs are located in specific countries and not China because of the technology? The US government doesn't allow that tech to be in some countries and that's civilian tech.

Spending lots of money now won't mean they can suddenly evaporate a gap of decades of spending and researching and collaborating with other advanced nations like the US did.

Why do you think the A bomb is still rare? Because its a secret and you need to reinvent it....hardly something easy, most of the countries who got the bomb decades ago got it through spying.

So is it safe to say the US in the 1940s was more scientifically advanced than most of the rest of the world is today?

IFBBwannaB

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2009, 09:14:24 AM »
So is it safe to say the US in the 1940s was more scientifically advanced than most of the rest of the world is today?


In some terms yes.

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: China building military bases in Iran!
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2009, 09:39:23 AM »

In some terms yes.

WRONG!  A lot of our technological advancement came not only from our adaptation to WWII but from Nazi scientists.  Many of the best and brightest Nazi scientists came to work for America after the war.