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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on February 04, 2009, 03:44:53 PM
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Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
Posted: 12:37 PM ET
(CNN) – President Obama will unveil a revamped office of Faith-Based Initiatives Thursday, and a new approach to the controversial program established by former President George Bush.
The office, tasked with steering federal funds to charitable organizations tied to churches and faith-based organizations, will be headed by Josh DuBois – a 26 year-old Pentecostal minister who was in charge of religious outreach for the Obama campaign.
According to a White House official, the basic structure of the office will remain the same as it was under Bush, but Obama is introducing a new component: an advisory council of 25 leaders — secular and religious — who will help inform the Office and provide advice on other policy issues.
According to a person familiar with the makeup of the council, some of the 25 members include:
–Rabbi David Saperstein, head of the DC Religious Action Center of Reform Judiasm
–Judith Vredenburgh, CEO of Big Brothers and Big Sisters of America
–Bishop Vashti McKenzie, first female Bishop of the African Methodist Episcopal Church
–The Rev. Joel Hunter, the senior pastor of Northland church in Orlando, Florida
–The Rev. Frank Page, the conservative past president of the Southern Baptist Convention
The official announcement of the revamped office is set to take place Thursday at the National Prayer Breakfast.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/04/obama-to-unveil-new-faith-based-office/#more-38582
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Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office
- Story Highlights
Bush faith office allowed religious groups to discriminate in hiring
During campaign, Obama said federal money shouldn't go to discriminatory groups
Obama faith office's position on the issue is unclear so far
Religious, secular groups take stands on both sides
By Alexander Mooney
CNN
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Obama's newly revamped Office of Faith Based Initiatives is reigniting a contentious debate across the ideological spectrum over whether religious organizations that accept funds from the government should be allowed to discriminate when hiring.
In one corner is a string of religion-backed organizations that have accepted federal funds from the 8-year-old program to advance their secular charity work. President Bush issued an executive order in 2002 that allowed these groups to continue their practice of discrimination with respect to hiring. Specifically, many of the organizations carry policies against hiring outside their religion or hiring homosexuals whose lifestyles conflict with church doctorines.
In the other corner are separation-of-church-and-state advocates and human-rights organizations that say the government must constitutionally compel these organizations to follow nondiscrimination laws if they accept federal funding. Anything less, they say, would at best be a violation of church-state separation and at worst an implicit endorsement of discrimination.
"[President Obama] is under heavy pressure from those who support faith-based hiring in these enterprises to not just eliminate it," said Ira C. Lupu, a professor at The George Washington University Law School. "Others say that hiring on the basis of religion is discriminatory and that the government should never subsidize that. As a political matter, there is a lot of pressure from both sides."
Obama himself waded into the debate during the presidential campaign, delivering a widely viewed speech in Zanesville, Ohio, during which he endorsed faith-based programs, but said the beneficiaries of such government aid should be forced to cease discriminatory practices.
"If you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion," Obama said in the July 1 speech at the East Side Community Ministry.
But since Election Day, the president and his aides have been far less clear on whether the new faith-based initiatives office will significantly depart from the Bush administration's policy.
In an executive order to be announced on Thursday, Obama does not rescind Bush's provision to allow faith-based groups to discriminate in their hiring practices, but does provide a legal process for organizations to go through in order to that ensure hiring is legal and non-discriminatory.
Administration sources say the new legal safeguard is a "key step forward" in addressing the thorny issue of faith-based hiring.
But Dr. Joel Hunter, a senior pastor at Northland Church in Longwood, Florida, who will be part of a 25-member council of religious leaders in the faith-based office, said the issue is a particularly tricky one for religious leaders.
"We're going to have to work that out, because on the one hand, you don't want to use federal funds to discriminate. But on the other hand, we can't have religious organizations taking money on the condition that they will hire people who live a lifestyle contrary to what they teach," he said.
If the Obama administration moves slowly on resolving the issue, the new president risks alienating a large bloc of his supporters, many of whom are already wary of faith-based funding from the federal government.
"In an ideal world, there would be no faith-based office," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.[/b] "But if we must have this office, certain steps must be taken to bring it into line with the commands of the Constitution."
For the faith-based groups, the issue is not so clear-cut. Under the Civil Rights act of 1964, faith-based organizations have a right to discriminate in hiring with respect to religion. Many of these organizations argue they risk losing their fundamental identity if the government forces them to hire individuals outside their faith.
"To us, it's not a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of our faith ethos," said Samuel Rodriguez, the president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. "What they are telling us is to negate who we are in order to acquire federal grants. ... That's just unacceptable."
Rodriguez, whose organization represents more than 19,000 churches, said he and other religious leaders have directly communicated their concerns to the Obama administration and are confident the president will not seek to rescind the policy.
"President Obama understands he's at risk of alienating the vast majority of the evangelical community," Rodriguez said.
But opponents argue organizations use the right to hire within their religion as an excuse to implicitly discriminate against gays and lesbians -- many of whom may share the same faith as the organization but are deemed not good practitioners of it.
"The Bush administration's policies and initiatives that have allowed religious institutions to discriminate against [lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual] Americans with public money are not consistent with the values espoused by President Obama and his Administration," Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign said. "We are hopeful that the new administration will take the necessary steps to address this critical issue of fairness expeditiously."
At Pastor Rick Warren's presidential forum in August, then-presidential candidate Obama said a distinction should be made between how federally funded groups hire within their own mission and how they hire when it comes to secular charitable work.
"The devil's in the details," he said then. "What we do want to make sure of is that as a general principle we're not using federal funding to discriminate, but that is only when it comes to the narrow program that is being funded by the federal government. That does not affect any of the other ministries that are being taken, that are taking place."
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The government has no business getting involved in this nonsense.
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The government has no business getting involved in this nonsense.
I agree - we shouldn't spend 1 cent of tax payer money on this kind of nonsense.
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I agree - we shouldn't spend 1 cent of tax payer money on this kind of nonsense.
This is why I dont want the polticians to get any more $$$ from us. They waste everything.
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Obama has delusions of grandeur. I mean, he thinks he's some kind of rock star or superhero and he's determined to do everything bigger and better than his predecessor. Bigger and better!!! That seems to be his mantra. And why the hell shouldn't it be? He's got a blank check signed by the American taxpayer.
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Barry Lynn. ::)
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I agree - we shouldn't spend 1 cent of tax payer money on this kind of nonsense.
I am a Goldwater Conservative.
This type of garbage has no business being paid for by taxpayers.
Obama should be ashamed of himself for pushing this type of nonsense that the left would scream about if it were Bush doing this.
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I am a Goldwater Conservative.
This type of garbage has no business being paid for by taxpayers.
Obama should be ashamed of himself for pushing this type of nonsense that the left would scream about if it were Bush doing this.
I've thought this was ridiculous since the day Bush established this (apparently his first official executive order)
It's completely innappropriate and shouldn't get a cent of tax dollars
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Barry Lynn. ::)
yeah - too bad there aren't more like him. One of the rare rational christians in this country.
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yeah - too bad there aren't more like him. One of the rare rational christians in this country.
::) He's an extremist. He ought to go work for the ACLU.
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yeah - too bad there aren't more like him. One of the rare rational christians in this country.
Actually, Obama seems to be setting up the US Govt to be the next major religion in this world.
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::) He's an extremist. He ought to go work for the ACLU.
your definition of extremist seems to be anyone who disagrees with your extremist view
textbook example of projection
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Actually, Obama seems to be setting up the US Govt to be the next major religion in this world.
my comment was in reference to Barry Linn
how can the US Govt be a religion?
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your definition of extremist seems to be anyone who disagrees with your extremist view
textbook example of projection
My definition of extremist includes Barry Lynn. And the ACLU. And you. :)
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My definition of extremist includes Barry Lynn. And the ACLU. And you. :)
like I said classic projection:
In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. According to Wade, Tavris (2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else..[1]
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::)
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my comment was in reference to Barry Linn
how can the US Govt be a religion?
Are you serious????????
Many people even on this board fit the definition of following the Obama and USG religion.
They worship the state and and place all their hopes and wishes in the ability of the USG to provide everything and anything, all wishes, all needs, all sustinence.
They look to Obama and DC for everything,
They think their rights to life liberalty and the pursuit of happiness come the government.
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Are you serious????????
Many people even on this board fit the definition of following the Obama and USG religion.
They worship the state and and place all their hopes and wishes in the ability of the USG to provide everything and anything, all wishes, all needs, all sustinence.
They look to Obama and DC for everything,
They think their rights to life liberalty and the pursuit of happiness come the government.
There may be some Obama worshipers here and certainly there are in this country but (as I've said before) I think they will be disappointed when they realize he's not Super Lib and the republicans may come to grudgingly agree with him ....when he actually starts doing something and getting tangible results.
There are already a few things he's done that I don't like at all ....including perpetuating this Office of Faith based crap. I'm also not a fan of his pick for Commerce Secretary and a few other things.
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This religious BS has got to go.
Embarrassing.
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I am a Goldwater Conservative.
This type of garbage has no business being paid for by taxpayers.
Obama should be ashamed of himself for pushing this type of nonsense that the left would scream about if it were Bush doing this.
Bush did do/start this shit. Am I missing something? No I'm not happy it's going to the next stage.
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Bush did do/start this shit. Am I missing something? No I'm not happy it's going to the next stage.
I dpnt remember. If so, it was wrong.
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Are you serious????????
Many people even on this board fit the definition of following the Obama and USG religion.
They worship the state and and place all their hopes and wishes in the ability of the USG to provide everything and anything, all wishes, all needs, all sustinence.
They look to Obama and DC for everything,
They think their rights to life liberalty and the pursuit of happiness come the government.
I dont think so. We went from having the most corrupt 8 yrs in recent history to having someone speak up as to matters that matter. As you can see hes catching hell for trying to push in packages like canceling e-verify and sodding the concrete lawn.
The bottom line is we had to listen to bush tell us the market is strong, while we were wondering what goddamn planet he was living on.....then mccain did the same thing and sealed the presidency for obama.
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I dpnt remember. If so, it was wrong.
Not only did Bush start it.
It was the first friggin thing he did.
Apparently Bush thought the most urgent issue facing the country at that time was the lack of an Office of Faith Based Initiaves.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2001-wbush.html
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Not you, but others.
Obama is going to be a monumental disaster.
Look GWB screwed up big time, no doubt, but Obama, after only two weeks, is showing he is racing to match GWBS terrible record, only years and years sooner.
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UUUGGHHH.
What nonsense. If the original GW was not for it, I dont think it is necessary or even a good thing. Let people be religious on their own damn time.
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polls from when Bush opened this door:
Conservatives, Republicans and frequent churchgoers are much more likely to favor faith-based initiatives.
In the February Gallup poll, a majority of those who indicated they attend church at least monthly favored Bush's faith-based initiative, while only 37% of those who "seldom" or "never" attend church favored it.
Additionally, nearly seven in 10 Republicans approved of Bush's initiative, as compared to just 32% of Democrats. The numbers are quite similar among conservatives (62% approve) and liberals (30%).
http://www.gallup.com/poll/4750/Public-Favors-Bushs-FaithBased-Charities-Initiative.aspx
If more conservatives and repubulicans would have been against it back then, maybe it wouldn't have flown. So kind of wrong to lay the blame on Obama's feet. You should have yelled about it then.
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would be interesting to see a present poll of conservatives and liberals on this. I don't most liberals who were against it under Bush, will be for it just because Obama's doing it. But it would be funny to see if conservatives switch and now call it wasteful lol.
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I don't believe for a second that Bush gives a rat's ass about Faith Based initiatives.
I think this office was set up to funnel tax payer $$'s to various church groups to essentially start working on getting him re-elected (just my opinion)
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2005/02/Please-Keep-Faith.aspx
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This is the really perturbing bit:
an advisory council of 25 leaders — secular and religious — who will help inform the Office and provide advice on other policy issues.
You guys are getting like us ;D
We have epic religion in government, as in priests are sitting senators etc, hence our far, far, far right laws on social matters, like a soft sharia law really we have.
I never see why religious leaders should butt into government affairs, its a way a life here so will never change, total fact - but to head that way for you guys kinda blows.
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I don't believe for a second that Bush gives a rat's ass about Faith Based initiatives.
I think this office was set up to funnel tax payer $$'s to various church groups to essentially start working on getting him re-elected (just my opinion)
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2005/02/Please-Keep-Faith.aspx
that's true. That was all about carving out a solid voter base plus benefits. With the door open and a pretty big portion of the country all for it, it's much harder if not impossible for a politician to put them all back in their room. best to stop this crap when it starts, not two terms down the road.
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The government has no business getting involved in this nonsense.
yep
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This is the really perturbing bit:
You guys are getting like us ;D
We have epic religion in government, as in priests are sitting senators etc, hence our far, far, far right laws on social matters, like a soft sharia law really we have.
I never see why religious leaders should butt into government affairs, its a way a life here so will never change, total fact - but to head that way for you guys kinda blows.
Seperation of church and state is in our founding constitution, as our fathers knew from their previous monarchys that it doesnt work. :-\
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UUUGGHHH.
What nonsense. If the original GW was not for it, I dont think it is necessary or even a good thing. Let people be religious on their own damn time.
Maybe it's just me, but I thought the purpose of these programs was to provide federal aid for social services (homeless shelters, drug/alcohol rehab, food banks, battered women's safehouses, etc).
If that's the case, exactly why would you spend millions of dollars to build those, when they already exist in certain cities (just because the existing centers are run by churches).
There in no "separation of church and state" in the US Constitution. Plus, this issue was somewhat addressed in the Cleveland school voucher case that went to the Supreme Court. The public school system there was TERRIBLE. So the city started a voucher system to let parents (especially black parents) pick the school of their choice for their child. Even though the students' performance was improved, certain folk cried about the issue for one reason: Of the 4200+ families who got those vouchers, nearly all of them (96%) used those vouchers to send their kids to Christian schools.
The Supreme Court ruled (5-4) that was no Constitutional breach, because the vouchers were used for a secular purpose, educating the children. The program gave the parents multiple options, regarding where they could send their kids. The fact that the overwhelming number of parents picked religious schools showed no unconstitutionality of the program and was solely due the choice of the parents.
The way I see it, the social services thing is of the same vein. It ain't like the food banks take back the chicken, if you don't confess Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior. Getting saved isn't a requirement to get into rehab. And, nobody is asking battered women if they're born again, prior to entering the facitility.
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This is the really perturbing bit:
You guys are getting like us ;D
We have epic religion in government, as in priests are sitting senators etc, hence our far, far, far right laws on social matters, like a soft sharia law really we have.
I never see why religious leaders should butt into government affairs, its a way a life here so will never change, total fact - but to head that way for you guys kinda blows.
It's as Dr. King said. The church should be the conscience of the state, not its master nor its slave.
Government affairs are about policy and policy is based on what people believe is right and wrong. To that end, your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) help shape that sense of right and wrong.
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would be interesting to see a present poll of conservatives and liberals on this. I don't most liberals who were against it under Bush, will be for it just because Obama's doing it. But it would be funny to see if conservatives switch and now call it wasteful lol.
Why is that such a far-out concept, liberals who didn't like a faith-based initiative, started under Bush, now liking a similar initiative under Obama? Politicians on both sides aren't beyond being petty.
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Why is that such a far-out concept, liberals who didn't like a faith-based initiative, started under Bush, now liking a similar initiative under Obama? Politicians on both sides aren't beyond being petty.
The government needs to downsize massively and radically. This type of garbage should never be funded by the labors of taxpayers.
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Nothing wrong with the office at all. They provide social services to the community. Certainly nothing to get worked up over.
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More waste fraud and abuse.
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Why is that such a far-out concept, liberals who didn't like a faith-based initiative, started under Bush, now liking a similar initiative under Obama? Politicians on both sides aren't beyond being petty.
that's what I would like to see. I think the same number of liberals would oppose it under Obama. It would be interesting to see a poll on it. I didn't support it before, I don't support it under Obama and I think it should have been nipped when it started under Bush.
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that's what I would like to see. I think the same number of liberals would oppose it under Obama. It would be interesting to see a poll on it. I didn't support it before, I don't support it under Obama and I think it should have been nipped when it started under Bush.
Not necessarily, especially within black communities. I don't think they'd have a problem seeing humanitarian centers, food banks, battered women shelters, and the like (run by churches) getting some of that $$$$$$.
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Not necessarily, especially within black communities. I don't think they'd have a problem seeing humanitarian centers, food banks, battered women shelters, and the like (run by churches) getting some of that $$$$$$.
maybe we should add all the stuff taken out the stimulus bill to the budget of the office of Faith Based Initiatives
I'm sure the social conservatives won't object
what's the diff between a humanitarian center and a school?
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maybe we should add all the stuff taken out the stimulus bill to the budget of the office of Faith Based Initiatives
I'm sure the social conservatives won't object
what's the diff between a humanitarian center and a school?
We should not be adding anything. We need to cut spending, not increase it.
Let people have more of their own money back and they can fund these things if they wish.
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We should not be adding anything. We need to cut spending, not increase it.
Let people have more of their own money back and they can fund these things if they wish.
jeez man, I was making a joke. You know most of the Repubs on this board who have no problem with throwing billions as the office of FBI are the same ones bitching about the bailout.
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jeez man, I was making a joke. You know most of the Repubs on this board who have no problem with throwing billions as the office of FBI are the same ones bitching about the bailout.
They are part of the problem, not the solution.
We need to get back to 1776 principles.
Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
Obama, the Banksters, Massive International Corp., Pelosi, the lobbyits, all offer chains and slavery.
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They are part of the problem, not the solution.
We need to get back to 1776 principles.
Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
Obama, the Banksters, Massive International Corp., Pelosi, the lobbyits, all offer chains and slavery.
weren't there actual slaves in 1776
I can't quite figure out what your ideal world view is supposed to look like.
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weren't there actual slaves in 1776
I can't quite figure out what your ideal world view is supposed to look like.
Yeah, I want slavery. Right.
Get real. you know exactly what i meant. Therse politicians, particularly Pelosi and Obama, need to be dumped in the river. They offer nothing but slavery and chains to the govt.
Its time to revive Jefferson/ Washington/ and the founders of this nation and what it was founded upon.
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Yeah, I want slavery. Right.
Get real. you know exactly what i meant. Therse politicians, particularly Pelosi and Obama, need to be dumped in the river. They offer nothing but slavery and chains to the govt.
Its time to revive Jefferson/ Washington/ and the founders of this nation and what it was founded upon.
Honestly, there are many times when I have no idea what you're talking about
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Honestly, there are many times when I have no idea what you're talking about
Read a history book and maybe you would.
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Read a history book and maybe you would.
I doubt it would help me to decipher your postings.
were you a Ron Paul supporter?
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I doubt it would help me to decipher your postings.
were you a Ron Paul supporter?
Tell me specifically what you do not understand?
Only a liberal like yourself could claim that following the constitution and founding principles is something you cannot understand.
Of course I like Ron Paul. He is the only one with an ounce of sense any more.
Obama the messiah has already proven himself to be the phony and fraud we said he was and everyone knows it.
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Tell me specifically what you do not understand?
Only a liberal like yourself could claim that following the constitution and founding principles is something you cannot understand.
Of course I like Ron Paul. He is the only one with an ounce of sense any more.
Obama the messiah has already proven himself to be the phony and fraud we said he was and everyone knows it.
Ron Paul is wrong when it comes to such things as the gold standard and the FED.
The problems in the market has more to do with a massive lack of oversite and not enough criminal persecutions for fraud.
Followed up by bad strategies like derivative trading and mortgage practices.
Government regulation is essential even Adam Smith thought so.
"Nobody but a beggar chooses to depend chiefly upon the benevolence of his fellow-citizens."
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Tell me specifically what you do not understand?
Only a liberal like yourself could claim that following the constitution and founding principles is something you cannot understand.
Of course I like Ron Paul. He is the only one with an ounce of sense any more.
Obama the messiah has already proven himself to be the phony and fraud we said he was and everyone knows it.
Well at least you gave Obama a fair chance before deciding he is a phony and fraud
I'll just say I agree with some liberal, conservative, libertarian and others
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Well at least you gave Obama a fair chance before deciding he is a phony and fraud
I'll just say I agree with some liberal, conservative, libertarian and others
I said he is a fraud because he ran a campaign against GWB and is now proving he is just more of the same and going along with almost everything Bush did, but a lot worse.