Author Topic: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office  (Read 2647 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2009, 06:26:03 PM »
UUUGGHHH.

What nonsense.  If the original GW was not for it, I dont think it is necessary or even a good thing.  Let people be religious on their own damn time.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2009, 06:29:40 PM »
polls from when Bush opened this door:

Conservatives, Republicans and frequent churchgoers are much more likely to favor faith-based initiatives.
In the February Gallup poll, a majority of those who indicated they attend church at least monthly favored Bush's faith-based initiative, while only 37% of those who "seldom" or "never" attend church favored it.

Additionally, nearly seven in 10 Republicans approved of Bush's initiative, as compared to just 32% of Democrats. The numbers are quite similar among conservatives (62% approve) and liberals (30%).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/4750/Public-Favors-Bushs-FaithBased-Charities-Initiative.aspx



If more conservatives and repubulicans would have been against it back then, maybe it wouldn't have flown.  So kind of wrong to lay the blame on Obama's feet.  You should have yelled about it then.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2009, 06:35:14 PM »
would be interesting to see a present poll of conservatives and liberals on this.  I don't most liberals who were against it under Bush, will be for it just because Obama's doing it.  But it would be funny to see if conservatives switch and now call it wasteful lol.

Straw Man

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2009, 06:36:08 PM »
I don't believe for a second that Bush gives a rat's ass about Faith Based initiatives.

I think this office was set up to funnel tax payer $$'s to various church groups to essentially start working on getting him re-elected (just my opinion)

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2005/02/Please-Keep-Faith.aspx


CQ

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2009, 06:46:18 PM »
This is the really perturbing bit:

Quote
an advisory council of 25 leaders — secular and religious — who will help inform the Office and provide advice on other policy issues.

You guys are getting like us ;D

We have epic religion in government, as in priests are sitting senators etc, hence our far, far, far right laws on social matters, like a soft sharia law really we have.

I never see why religious leaders should butt into government affairs, its a way a life here so will never change, total fact - but to head that way for you guys kinda blows.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2009, 06:47:44 PM »
I don't believe for a second that Bush gives a rat's ass about Faith Based initiatives.

I think this office was set up to funnel tax payer $$'s to various church groups to essentially start working on getting him re-elected (just my opinion)

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2005/02/Please-Keep-Faith.aspx


that's true.  That was all about carving out a solid voter base plus benefits.  With the door open and a pretty big portion of the country all for it, it's much harder if not impossible for a politician to put them all back in their room.  best to stop this crap when it starts, not two terms down the road.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2009, 06:51:07 PM »
The government has no business getting involved in this nonsense.

yep
S

War-Horse

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2009, 06:54:31 PM »
This is the really perturbing bit:

You guys are getting like us ;D

We have epic religion in government, as in priests are sitting senators etc, hence our far, far, far right laws on social matters, like a soft sharia law really we have.

I never see why religious leaders should butt into government affairs, its a way a life here so will never change, total fact - but to head that way for you guys kinda blows.



Seperation of church and state is in our founding constitution,   as our fathers knew from their previous monarchys that it doesnt work.   :-\

MCWAY

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2009, 12:12:15 PM »
UUUGGHHH.

What nonsense.  If the original GW was not for it, I dont think it is necessary or even a good thing.  Let people be religious on their own damn time.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought the purpose of these programs was to provide federal aid for social services (homeless shelters, drug/alcohol rehab, food banks, battered women's safehouses, etc).

If that's the case, exactly why would you spend millions of dollars to build those, when they already exist in certain cities (just because the existing centers are run by churches).

There in no "separation of church and state" in the US Constitution. Plus, this issue was somewhat addressed in the Cleveland school voucher case that went to the Supreme Court. The public school system there was TERRIBLE. So the city started a voucher system to let parents (especially black parents) pick the school of their choice for their child. Even though the students' performance was improved, certain folk cried about the issue for one reason: Of the 4200+ families who got those vouchers, nearly all of them (96%) used those vouchers to send their kids to Christian schools.

The Supreme Court ruled (5-4) that was no Constitutional breach, because the vouchers were used for a secular purpose, educating the children. The program gave the parents multiple options, regarding where they could send their kids. The fact that the overwhelming number of parents picked religious schools showed no unconstitutionality of the program and was solely due the choice of the parents.

The way I see it, the social services thing is of the same vein. It ain't like the food banks take back the chicken, if you don't confess Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior. Getting saved isn't a requirement to get into rehab. And, nobody is asking battered women if they're born again, prior to entering the facitility.

MCWAY

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2009, 03:58:12 PM »
This is the really perturbing bit:

You guys are getting like us ;D

We have epic religion in government, as in priests are sitting senators etc, hence our far, far, far right laws on social matters, like a soft sharia law really we have.

I never see why religious leaders should butt into government affairs, its a way a life here so will never change, total fact - but to head that way for you guys kinda blows.

It's as Dr. King said. The church should be the conscience of the state, not its master nor its slave.

Government affairs are about policy and policy is based on what people believe is right and wrong. To that end, your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) help shape that sense of right and wrong.

MCWAY

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2009, 06:08:09 PM »
would be interesting to see a present poll of conservatives and liberals on this.  I don't most liberals who were against it under Bush, will be for it just because Obama's doing it.  But it would be funny to see if conservatives switch and now call it wasteful lol.

Why is that such a far-out concept, liberals who didn't like a faith-based initiative, started under Bush, now liking a similar initiative under Obama? Politicians on both sides aren't beyond being petty.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2009, 06:09:45 PM »
Why is that such a far-out concept, liberals who didn't like a faith-based initiative, started under Bush, now liking a similar initiative under Obama? Politicians on both sides aren't beyond being petty.



The government needs to downsize massively and radically.  This type of garbage should never be funded by the labors of taxpayers.

Dos Equis

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2009, 06:55:01 PM »
Nothing wrong with the office at all.  They provide social services to the community.  Certainly nothing to get worked up over. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2009, 06:57:43 PM »
More waste fraud and abuse. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2009, 07:36:00 PM »
Why is that such a far-out concept, liberals who didn't like a faith-based initiative, started under Bush, now liking a similar initiative under Obama? Politicians on both sides aren't beyond being petty.


that's what I would like to see.  I think the same number of liberals would oppose it under Obama.  It would be interesting to see a poll on it.  I didn't support it before, I don't support it under Obama and I think it should have been nipped when it started under Bush.

MCWAY

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2009, 04:01:31 PM »
that's what I would like to see.  I think the same number of liberals would oppose it under Obama.  It would be interesting to see a poll on it.  I didn't support it before, I don't support it under Obama and I think it should have been nipped when it started under Bush.

Not necessarily, especially within black communities. I don't think they'd have a problem seeing humanitarian centers, food banks, battered women shelters, and the like (run by churches) getting some of that $$$$$$.

Straw Man

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2009, 07:27:19 PM »
Not necessarily, especially within black communities. I don't think they'd have a problem seeing humanitarian centers, food banks, battered women shelters, and the like (run by churches) getting some of that $$$$$$.

maybe we should add all the stuff taken out the stimulus bill to the budget of the office of Faith Based Initiatives

I'm sure the social conservatives won't object

what's the diff between a humanitarian center and a school?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2009, 05:21:54 AM »
maybe we should add all the stuff taken out the stimulus bill to the budget of the office of Faith Based Initiatives

I'm sure the social conservatives won't object

what's the diff between a humanitarian center and a school?

We should not be adding anything.  We need to cut spending, not increase it. 

Let people have more of their own money back and they can fund these things if they wish.

 

Straw Man

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2009, 07:24:20 AM »
We should not be adding anything.  We need to cut spending, not increase it. 

Let people have more of their own money back and they can fund these things if they wish.

jeez man, I was making a joke.  You know most of the Repubs on this board who have no problem with throwing billions as the office of FBI are the same ones bitching about the bailout. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2009, 07:41:00 AM »
jeez man, I was making a joke.  You know most of the Repubs on this board who have no problem with throwing billions as the office of FBI are the same ones bitching about the bailout. 

They are part of the problem, not the solution. 

We need to get back to 1776 principles. 

Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

Obama, the Banksters, Massive International Corp., Pelosi, the lobbyits, all offer chains and slavery.

Straw Man

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2009, 08:32:30 AM »
They are part of the problem, not the solution. 

We need to get back to 1776 principles. 

Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

Obama, the Banksters, Massive International Corp., Pelosi, the lobbyits, all offer chains and slavery.

weren't there actual slaves in 1776

I can't quite figure out what your ideal world view is supposed to look like.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2009, 08:38:43 AM »
weren't there actual slaves in 1776

I can't quite figure out what your ideal world view is supposed to look like.


Yeah, I want slavery. Right.   

Get real.  you know exactly what i meant.  Therse politicians, particularly Pelosi and Obama, need to be dumped in the river.  They offer nothing but slavery and chains to the govt.

Its time to revive Jefferson/ Washington/ and the founders of this nation and what it was founded upon.

 



Straw Man

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2009, 09:49:37 AM »
Yeah, I want slavery. Right.   

Get real.  you know exactly what i meant.  Therse politicians, particularly Pelosi and Obama, need to be dumped in the river.  They offer nothing but slavery and chains to the govt.

Its time to revive Jefferson/ Washington/ and the founders of this nation and what it was founded upon.


Honestly, there are many times when I have no idea what you're talking about

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2009, 09:52:57 AM »
Honestly, there are many times when I have no idea what you're talking about

Read a history book and maybe you would. 


Straw Man

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Re: Obama to unveil new Faith-Based office
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2009, 09:55:02 AM »
Read a history book and maybe you would. 

I doubt it would help me to decipher your postings.

were you a Ron Paul supporter?