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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Dos Equis on March 07, 2009, 04:11:44 PM
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Anyone remember this? Saw this on CNN/SI today. I have this copy packed away somewhere. He was a total chemical creation. Many thought he was going to be the greatest O-lineman ever.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1989/0424_large.jpg)
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/9169/index.htm?eref=sircrc&eref=sisf
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One of the most over-hyped prospects ever.
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No doubt. GB took him over Barry and Deion.
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His combine numbers were insane. Ran a 4.65 40 yeard dash. Bench pressed 225 lbs. 39 times.
But like Beach already said...total chemical concoction with a big mouth. But totally came clean about everything and even admitted that he was a joke.
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True journalists try to avoid using terms such as "best (or worst) ever," but then again, who said the magazine folks were journalists? I imagine that Tony Mandarich: Good Potential wouldn't sell too many copies, so the magazines just give the people what they want.
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Mandarich was a huge bust....but he did go on to have a pretty long pro career. He was a decent player.
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Mandarich was a huge bust....but he did go on to have a pretty long pro career. He was a decent player.
he was horrible! He wasn't a good player in any capacity during his career. His career was not as long as you think. He played three years with Green Bay, got released, and made a respectable comeback in 1995 with the Colts and was out of football again two years later.
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he was horrible! He wasn't a good player in any capacity during his career. His career was not as long as you think. He played three years with Green Bay, got released, and made a respectable comeback in 1995 with the Colts and was out of football again two years later.
Like I said, he had a decent pro career. I never said he was a good player. Lots of guys sit on the practice squad for their entire careers and they don't start. 6 years is the average NFL career, I believe. Mandarich was a huge bust, but he was your average run of the mill jag who stayed in the NFL for 6 years and from 96-98 was noteworthy with the Colts.
To me, a guy like Leaf is worse. At least Manderich was able to contribute something to his team. He was a bust, but at least he did something.
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he was horrible! He wasn't a good player in any capacity during his career. His career was not as long as you think. He played three years with Green Bay, got released, and made a respectable comeback in 1995 with the Colts and was out of football again two years later.
I agree. He in no way, shape, or form, had a good career. To keep things in perspective, Green Bay drafted him over Barry Sanders and Deion Sanders, both HOF players. Imagine what Favre in his prime would have done handing the ball off to Barry in his prime.
Mandarich started 63 games in 6 years. Never played up to his draft status. A good career for an OT is at least ten years. I think Leaf is probably the biggest bust in NFL history, but Mandarich would definitely be in my top 5.
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Like I said, he had a decent pro career. I never said he was a good player. Lots of guys sit on the practice squad for their entire careers and they don't start. 6 years is the average NFL career, I believe. Mandarich was a huge bust, but he was your average run of the mill jag who stayed in the NFL for 6 years and from 96-98 was noteworthy with the Colts.
To me, a guy like Leaf is worse. At least Manderich was able to contribute something to his team. He was a bust, but at least he did something.
Body88...this guy was the #2 overall selection in the 1989 draft. #2....just like Leaf. Came into the NFL on a tidal wave of hype. You can't compare this guy to practice squad players. practice squad players are not selected in the top 5. Hell, not even in the first round. IMO, he was just as big a bust as Ryan leaf. The guy didn't even have a decent career. As soon as he was off the juice in the NFL, he was getting manhandled by every defensive end on the league. He was pathetic.
don't mean to jump down your throat because I do respect your opinions.
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Body88...this guy was the #2 overall selection in the 1989 draft. #2....just like Leaf. Came into the NFL on a tidal wave of hype. You can't compare this guy to practice squad players. practice squad players are not selected in the top 5. Hell, not even in the first round. IMO, he was just as big a bust as Ryan leaf. The guy didn't even have a decent career. As soon as he was off the juice in the NFL, he was getting manhandled by every defensive end on the league. He was pathetic.
don't mean to jump down your throat because I do respect your opinions.
It's cool! As I said, the guy was a total bust!!!! But he was a average to decent player for the 6 years he was in the NFL....thats all : )
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It's cool! As I said, the guy was a total bust!!!! But he was a average to decent player for the 6 years he was in the NFL....thats all : )
Respectfully disagree about being decent. He was awful, which is obviously worse than average.
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His record against the Steelers was better than the Baltimore Browns'.
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His record against the Steelers was better than the Baltimore Browns'.
Whoa! Rim Shot!
You should take the act out on the road, tough guy.....
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I loved that dude and i thought it was phenominal when Bo called him out and saw that he was on the juice. I remember meeting that dude when i was like 7 when MICHIGAN played Michigan State.
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I loved that dude and i thought it was phenominal when Bo called him out and saw that he was on the juice. I remember meeting that dude when i was like 7 when MICHIGAN played Michigan State.
Lol at calling out Tony for being on the juice......50-60% of college athletes are!
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Lol at calling out Tony for being on the juice......50-60% of college athletes are!
Really? You think the % is that high? Not too many phenomonally gifted athletes left out there anymore that don't need anabolics??
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Really? You think the % is that high? Not too many phenomonally gifted athletes left out there anymore that don't need anabolics??
He might be short on his guess :-\ I'm no expert but I heard that at least a majority of red-shirt freshmen juice.
a good friend of mine has a son that was a good player here in CT. the kid and his father took a recruiting trip to a Div 2 school.and the coach told both of them that he was gonna have to juice to get bigger{he never said the words steroids but it was very apparent what he meant}....hell,2 of the local high schools in my area have been accused of their kids juicing for football with the coaches supposedly knowing all about it.
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i would say atleast half are on something....
coming out of highschool, i see a lot of lb'ers around 6'1''-6'3'' like 210-225 pds. Thats not gonna cut it.
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Really? You think the % is that high? Not too many phenomonally gifted athletes left out there anymore that don't need anabolics??
Yes. I played at a small NCAA school for a year and a lot of guys juiced. If yoru dream was to play pro ball and you played for major program, would you juice if it could help you get into the NFL?
It might be higher than 60%
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Yes. I played at a small NCAA school for a year and a lot of guys juiced. If yoru dream was to play pro ball and you played for major program, would you juice if it could help you get into the NFL?
It might be higher than 60%
I think it's at least 60 percent.
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The what happens when they get into the pro's? They stop juicing? If they needed juice to get to the pro level to begin with, then what happens when they go pro? They stay on cycle throughout the season, every year to stay above the competition??
Maybe I'm naive but don't think that's the case. I still think the % is lower than 60%.
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The what happens when they get into the pro's? They stop juicing? If they needed juice to get to the pro level to begin with, then what happens when they go pro? They stay on cycle throughout the season, every year to stay above the competition??
Maybe I'm naive but don't think that's the case. I still think the % is lower than 60%.
They're still on the sauce in the pros IMO. They have to keep doing it to stay competitive. I think it depends on positions. Not many QBs, lots of D-lineman, not many kickers, lots of LBs, etc.
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Tony Mandrich had a decent career..... he was a little over hyped but he at least played for a while...... 2 of the most over hyped guys ever were Trev Alberts of Nebraska and Ryan Leaf of Washington State.
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Tony Mandrich had a decent career..... he was a little over hyped but he at least played for a while...... 2 of the most over hyped guys ever were Trev Alberts of Nebraska and Ryan Leaf of Washington State.
Injuries derailed Trev Alberts career. He was a sensational player coming out of Nebraska. White boy too. If not for serious shoulder injuries his first two years, I think he would have been a very good player in the NFL.
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Tony Mandrich had a decent career..... he was a little over hyped but he at least played for a while...... 2 of the most over hyped guys ever were Trev Alberts of Nebraska and Ryan Leaf of Washington State.
Rick Leach was also a highly touted player that turned out to be a BUST
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No doubt. GB took him over Barry and Deion.
Drafting's like a box of chocalates!!!
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Drafting's like a box of chocalates!!!
You got that right. You really don't know if you're getting Manning or Leaf.
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Believe it or not Chase Daniels may end up being the Tom Brady (drafted or not) of all the opther qb's. The only thing against him is is hight, other than that he was one of the most outstanding qbs this year and last. I am hoping Dallas nabs him in the 5th just to play it safe.
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You got that right. You really don't know if you're getting Manning or Leaf.
Eddie George or Lawrence Phillips. (note: I don't know if they were the same draft class...just making another boom vs bust comparison)
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The what happens when they get into the pro's? They stop juicing? If they needed juice to get to the pro level to begin with, then what happens when they go pro? They stay on cycle throughout the season, every year to stay above the competition??
Maybe I'm naive but don't think that's the case. I still think the % is lower than 60%.
I read in one of the steroid book (can't remember which one) that said the NFL drug test was easy to beat. Anyway, they only were able to detect THG because someone sent them a sample, so it's not naive to think there's a ton of other undetectable, designer drugs out there.
I think it's the same with baseball. Guys still use, but are careful not to get the ripped Luiz Gonzalez / Bentio Santiago look, or bulk up too much.
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Eddie George or Lawrence Phillips. (note: I don't know if they were the same draft class...just making another boom vs bust comparison)
Yep. Same draft. 1996. Some other notables from that draft:
1st - Me-Shawn
18th - Eddie Kennison
19th - Marvin Harrison
26th - Ray Lewis
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biggest busts in NFL history
Tony Mandarich
Brian Bosworth
Ryan Leaf
Art Schlicter (gambling and jail)
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Archie Griffin ;D
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Archie Griffin ;D
Archie wasn't really a bust..just an average player....played a number of years
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Archie wasn't really a bust..just an average player....played a number of years
Kind of an Aundray Bruce-like figure.
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Robert Gallery reminds me of Mandarich sort of.
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biggest busts in NFL history
Tony Mandarich
Brian Bosworth
Ryan Leaf
Art Schlicter (gambling and jail)
colts steve ettman,was another monster type with avg career.
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colts steve ettman,was another monster type with avg career.
True, although I take a softer view on him since his career was hampered by injuries as opposed to being a knucklehead.
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Todd Marinovich......QB picked by Oakland....super bust!!!!
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Maurice Claurett :D
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here's an old school player remember eric dorsey giants,not a bust but kind of a pre strahan type with potential,was huge saw him at movies with what was known at the time a blond type white girl hot ,he had traps that started at the ears and big arms.
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Recent bust......REGGIE BUSH
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I don't think Bush is a bust. A little injury prone, but very good player. Probably a little early to judge him too.
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I don't think Bush is a bust. A little injury prone, but very good player. Probably a little early to judge him too.
to be taken as what the second pick in the draft? and all the hype about him coming out of college..and now he's not an every down back though he may be solid as a kick returner, he is near being a bust i would say. Im sure there are players picked in that same draft that who are more valuable to their team. The Texans made the right choice.
Matt Leinhart is also a bust, though he did drop in the draft.
hopefully Colt can move up the the 2nd spot!
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to be taken as what the second pick in the draft? and all the hype about him coming out of college..and now he's not an every down back though he may be solid as a kick returner, he is near being a bust i would say. Im sure there are players picked in that same draft that who are more valuable to their team. The Texans made the right choice.
Matt Leinhart is also a bust, though he did drop in the draft.
hopefully Colt can move up the the 2nd spot!
MAtt gets a pass due to warner's hot hand right now.
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MAtt gets a pass due to warner's hot hand right now.
but they tried to hand him the team a few times already. Warner has been hot for a few years now in AZ with the same weapons that Leinhar had. this is the first year going in to the season that AZ has had an official starter, the previous years it was either Leinhart penciled in as the starter or an open comp. i really have no faith in the guy already.
i remember Dan Mcguire also from San Diego State, marks brother he was like 6'8" or something and highly touted as an nfl prospect.
and Michael Stonbreaker from Notre Dame the LB..
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that quarterback for the Tennessee Titans, Vince Young, might become a bust if he doesn't get his job back from Kerry Collins
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to be taken as what the second pick in the draft? and all the hype about him coming out of college..and now he's not an every down back though he may be solid as a kick returner, he is near being a bust i would say. Im sure there are players picked in that same draft that who are more valuable to their team. The Texans made the right choice.
Matt Leinhart is also a bust, though he did drop in the draft.
hopefully Colt can move up the the 2nd spot!
I think he should have been the first overall pick. His production has been pretty good over three years, especially given that he was in RBBC with McAllister and others:
1550 yards rushing, 12 TDs
1599 yards receiving, 8 TDs
4 TDs on punt returns
I wouldn't call that a bust at all.
I never liked Leinart. Always thought he was overrated. But I think it's too early to call him a bust too.
I think Colt can be the QB2. He was on 1420 the other morning and said he is about 90 percent healthy. Did you hear they also signed Chase Daniels?
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Mike Williams out of U$C and Charles Rodgers out of M$U
My poor Lions :'(
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Mike Williams out of U$C and Charles Rodgers out of M$U
My poor Lions :'(
At least they didn't draft a WR in the first this year. :)
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Maybe I'm naive but don't think that's the case.
you are
i'd say at least 80% are on something
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I think he should have been the first overall pick. His production has been pretty good over three years, especially given that he was in RBBC with McAllister and others:
1550 yards rushing, 12 TDs
1599 yards receiving, 8 TDs
4 TDs on punt returns
I wouldn't call that a bust at all.
that would be okay if it was 1 or 2 seasons worth... especially for a #2 overall pick.
There's no way he should have been drafted over Mario Williams...even though I thought that the Texans made a mistake back then. Thank God I'm not a GM.
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Heath Shuler....QB picked by the Redskins.....they gave this guy a ton of dough and had him doing a lot of stuff in the community like he was the mayor or something....Bust
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I think he should have been the first overall pick. His production has been pretty good over three years, especially given that he was in RBBC with McAllister and others:
1550 yards rushing, 12 TDs
1599 yards receiving, 8 TDs
4 TDs on punt returns
I wouldn't call that a bust at all.
I never liked Leinart. Always thought he was overrated. But I think it's too early to call him a bust too.
I think Colt can be the QB2. He was on 1420 the other morning and said he is about 90 percent healthy. Did you hear they also signed Chase Daniels?
2008 New Orleans Saints 10 9 106 404 3.8
2007 New Orleans Saints 12 10 157 581 3.7
2006 New Orleans Saints 16 8 155 565 3.6
Bush has created 1150 yards rushing (516 per year) and 1600 yards receiving (533 per year) with a 3.6 ypc avg over the last 3 years (That ypc avg is poor). 8 td's per year over three years for the 24 td's. This cost the Saints 20 million + in guaranteed money. You could have drafted a rb and a wr in the second and third round that could match that same production over three years for under 4 million bucks in guaranteed money. Bush = bad draft choice. Actually, the Saints could have had Jone Drew at #43 and Brandon Marshal at #108, traded down from their first rounder with some retard who thought Bush was a great player and had Antonio Cromartie (while creating an extra second or third rounder for 2007).
Hindsight is 20/20 but you get the point. Bush takes away from what the saints could add with his high cost vs production ratio. What you listed is not worth what he is being paid.
Bush is a crappy rb who is to small to be an every down player. he's explosive but pretty much ineffective in between the tackles and is hurt all the time. He's a good pass catcher, but so what, they throw the ball every down. Williams was by far the better choice.
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2008 New Orleans Saints 10 9 106 404 3.8
2007 New Orleans Saints 12 10 157 581 3.7
2006 New Orleans Saints 16 8 155 565 3.6
Bush has created 1150 yards rushing (516 per year) and 1600 yards receiving (533 per year) with a 3.6 ypc avg over the last 3 years (awful). 8 td's per year over three years for the 24 td's. This cost the Saints 20 million + in guaranteed money. You could have drafted a rb and a wr in the second and third round that could match that same production over three years for under 4 million bucks in guaranteed money. Bush = bad draft choice. Actually, the Saints could have had Jone Drew at #43 and Brandon Marshal at #108, traded down from their first rounder with some retard who thought Bush was a great player and had Antonio Cromartie (while creating an extra second or third rounder for 2007).
off the top of my head the saints would have:
A beast of a second rb
A pro bowl wr
And a pro bowl cb
+ a draft pick
For one Reggie Bush.
Hidsight is 20/20 but you get the point.
Bush is a crappy rb who is to small to be an every down player. He's a good pass catcher, but so what, they throw the ball every down. Williams was by far the better choice.
Yes it is hindsight. They also could have drafted Hester in the second. I can look at the draft of any team in the league and find eggs all over the place.
A crappy RB? Hardly. His numbers are based on sharing the load with McAllister and others. I think he's extremely talented. Hard to underestimate the importance of punt return TDs. Those are typically game-changing plays. He's a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball.
Given what was on the table, I would have rather had him than Williams or Vince Young.
Also, he's one of the best dual threats in the game IMO.
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bush was supposed to be the michael jordan of football, everybody said the texans were stupid for taking williams over bush and even vince young
i don't know if i'd call him a bust but arguably the most overhyped player ever
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Yes it is hindsight. They also could have drafted Hester in the second. I can look at the draft of any team in the league and find eggs all over the place.
A crappy RB? Hardly. His numbers are based on sharing the load with McAllister and others. I think he's extremely talented. Hard to underestimate the importance of punt return TDs. Those are typically game-changing plays. He's a threat to do the distance every time he touches the ball.
Given what was on the table, I would have rather had him than Williams or Vince Young.
Also, he's one of the best dual threats in the game IMO.
Heres the bottom line. The saints paid 20+ million in guaranteed money over the last three years for 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average. Not to mention the guy is always hurt so he cant even play in a full 16 games. Thats a bad investment and the same production can be had by smart drafting and smart veteran pick ups - for much less money.
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Heres the bottom line. The saints paid 20+ million in guaranteed money over the last three years for 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average. Not to mention the guy is always hurt so he cant even play in a full 16 games. Thats a bad investment and the same production can be had by smart drafting and smart veteran pick ups - for much less money.
Using hindsight, you are absolutely correct. Using hindsight, I can draft an All Pro team every year. But in looking at what was on the table and how players were evaluated going into the draft, with the only true choices being Young, Williams, or Bush, I think the Saints made the right choice.
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Using hindsight, you are absolutely correct. Using hindsight, I can draft an All Pro team every year. But in looking at what was on the table and how players were evaluated going into the draft, with the only true choices being Young, Williams, or Bush, I think the Saints made the right choice.
I'm not using hindsight. I'm saying that after three years Williams was the far better choice. I have been arguing your point about Bush being "productive" over the last three years and saying you would have taken him first overall even after seeing how things panned out.
I know one thing: 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average is horrible for the number two pick in the draft at the three year point.
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I'm not using hindsight. I'm saying that after three years Williams was the far better choice. I have been arguing your point about Bush being "productive" over the last three years and saying you would have taken him first overall even after seeing how things panned out.
I know one thing: 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average is horrible for the number two pick in the draft at the three year point.
Don't forget the 4 return TDs. Not horrible at all given the fact he was splitting time.
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Don't forget the 4 return TDs. Not horrible at all given the fact he was splitting time.
I didn't....if not for those return td's Bush, would have averaged 6.6 td's per year. Look, Bush is not a bust as an NFL player, he is a bust as a sensationalized prospect who was taken much higher than he should have been. He's not in the realm of a Peterson. Thats a top 3 pick! His return on the Saints investment has been poor. They gave the guy what, 25 million up front?
However, he does help them sell tickets, so all is not lost.
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Reggie Bush... can you say Blair Thomas???
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I didn't....if not for those return td's Bush, would have averaged 6.6 td's per year. Look, Bush is not a bust as an NFL player, he is a bust as a sensationalized prospect who was taken much higher than he should have been. He's not in the realm of a Peterson. Thats a top 3 pick! His return on the Saints investment has been poor. They gave the guy what, 25 million up front?
However, he does help them sell tickets, so all is not lost.
No he isn't AP, who as of today is the best RB in the NFL IMO. But AP wasn't in the 2006 draft.
I think his only major problem has been injuries. He played in 16 games as a rookie, 12 in 07, and 10 last year. If they start him and he plays 16 games he'll be pretty good.
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Reggie Bush... can you say Blair Thomas???
Not even close.
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I didn't....if not for those return td's Bush, would have averaged 6.6 td's per year. Look, Bush is not a bust as an NFL player, he is a bust as a sensationalized prospect who was taken much higher than he should have been. He's not in the realm of a Peterson. Thats a top 3 pick! His return on the Saints investment has been poor. They gave the guy what, 25 million up front?
However, he does help them sell tickets, so all is not lost.
yep.
i would never take a specialist that high. Only pass rushers go that high..and even then they should be an every down player.
He wasan everydown guy in college. The pro's..not so much
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yep.
i would never take a specialist that high. Only pass rushers go that high..and even then they should be an every down player.
He wasan everydown guy in college. The pro's..not so much
He split carriesw with Lendale White at USC.
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He split carriesw with Lendale White at USC.
OH SHIT REALLY? LIKE, I NEVER KNEW THAT.
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OH SHIT REALLY? LIKE, I NEVER KNEW THAT.
Apparently you didn't, because you said he was an every down back at USC:
He wasan everydown guy in college. The pro's..not so much
So which is it? Did you know or were you simply pulling stuff out of your rear end again?
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Reggie Bush... can you say Blair Thomas???
I was gonna say Blair Thomas....but I didn't think anyone would remember him!!!! ;D
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Apparently you didn't, because you said he was an every down back at USC:
So which is it? Did you know or were you simply pulling stuff out of your rear end again?
every down back as in, them using him on 1-3 downs.
nice try buddy.
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every down back as in, them using him on 1-3 downs.
nice try buddy.
lol. Nice spin. He's used exactly the same way in NO that he was used at USC: 1st through 3rd downs, but split with another RB.
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lol. Nice spin. He's used exactly the same way in NO that he was used at USC: 1st through 3rd downs, but split with another RB.
how is that spin. It's your fault for thinking that "every down back" meant that they used him on every down and only him. People know the term every down back means a complete back...the game is a llot different in the pros.
yes they tried to use him as an every down back in N.O. but that failed, he can't run between tackles and pound it...therefor he isn't an every down back, only situational. Duece got the dive plays the first couple years. Last year it was pierre thomas
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how is that spin. It's your fault for thinking that "every down back" meant that they used him on every down and only him. People know the term every down back means a complete back...the game is a llot different in the pros.
yes they tried to use him as an every down back in N.O. but that failed, he can't run between tackles and pound it...therefor he isn't an every down back, only situational. Duece got the dive plays the first couple years. Last year it was pierre thomas
[sigh] Wrong again. Deuce was not a short yardage back. He started. Bush rotated. They rotated series, not situations. That means Bush would play an entire series: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down.
What's a dive play? I think they might run those plays in high school, maybe Pop Warner. :)
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[sigh] Wrong again. Deuce was not a short yardage back. He started. Bush rotated. They rotated series, not situations. That means Bush would play an entire series: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down.
what the hell are you talking about man?
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Another note about Bush: he led the team in receptions as a rookie with 52 and was second in 07 and 08 with 73 and 88, respectively.
That has to be as good or better than any RB in the NFL during that period, particularly for a RB who is splitting time.
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westbrook has more catches in that time period. Jones-drew is up there too
bush also led the team in td's on special teams last year. Something a #1 rb doesnt do, ever.
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westbrook has more catches in that time period. Jones-drew is up there too
bush also led the team in td's on special teams last year. Something a #1 rb doesnt do, ever.
You're right about Westbrook. Has a few more catches than Bush during that period. Jones-Drew isn't really close.
RBs almost never return punts. That's part of what makes Bush special.
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Last year Payton was studying the Eagles offense to get Bush to be more like Westbrook. Didn't happen. Bush is a bust (so far). He has the numbers of a 2nd or 3rd rounder at best. Its still early though. At least he has Kim Kardashion.
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bush doesnt have the instincts yet to be on wb's level, nor will he ever imo. Not to mention bush was ultra fumble prone.
but to be fair the eagles have had a top 5 offensive line for the past few years, that has nothing to do with bush's inablility to hold on to the rock though.
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Andre Wadsworth was another bust... wasn't he picked right after Ryan Leaf? Everybody calls Leaf the biggest bust ever... but they forget Wadsworth was drafted right after him.
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You're right about Westbrook. Has a few more catches than Bush during that period. Jones-Drew isn't really close.
RBs almost never return punts. That's part of what makes Bush special.
Maroney did it his rookie year.... he the league in return yards that year. Most backs don't return kicks because they produce running the ball (unlike Bush) and you don't want to risk injury on a punt or kick return. Bush is not special. He's good, but I've shown you why he is vastly overrated and not worth the money that he is being paid.
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ANDRE WARE ANOTHER ONE,was touted from unv houston set passing records,nfl nada....
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bush doesnt have the instincts yet to be on wb's level, nor will he ever imo. Not to mention bush was ultra fumble prone.
but to be fair the eagles have had a top 5 offensive line for the past few years, that has nothing to do with bush's inablility to hold on to the rock though.
The Saints have a pretty decent offensive line, though.
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The Saints have a pretty decent offensive line, though.
their quite average IMO
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Maroney did it his rookie year.... he the league in return yards that year. Most backs don't return kicks because they produce running the ball (unlike Bush) and you don't want to risk injury on a punt or kick return. Bush is not special. He's good, but I've shown you why he is vastly overrated and not worth the money that he is being paid.
Maroney returned punts? I don't see any punt return stats: http://www.nfl.com/players/laurencemaroney/careerstats?id=MAR273311
Highly unusual for a RB to return punts.
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Maroney returned punts? I don't see any punt return stats: http://www.nfl.com/players/laurencemaroney/careerstats?id=MAR273311
Highly unusual for a RB to return punts.
Excuse me...kicks - not punts! Your right about that. We are beating a dead horse here anyway. You showed me a few things about Bush that back me off the total bust, stance. However, I do think he is somewhat of a bust ( if you look at the ROI for the Saints).
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their quite average IMO
True but I don't see Bush doing good with a great offensive line anyway...he's not a carry the load runningback. Never was never will be.
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Excuse me...kicks - not punts! Your right about that. We are beating a dead horse here anyway. You showed me a few things about Bush that back me off the total bust, stance. However, I do think he is somewhat of a bust ( if you look at the ROI for the Saints).
I understand your point and I think you can certainly make the argument that he hasn't produced like someone taken that high in the draft should. I'll give him, Leinart, Young, Mario Williams, etc. a little more time before calling anyone of them a bust, underachievers, etc.