Author Topic: Tony Mandarich  (Read 14074 times)

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2009, 07:21:18 PM »
Mike Williams out of U$C and Charles Rodgers out of M$U

My poor Lions  :'(

At least they didn't draft a WR in the first this year.   :)

Earl1972

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2009, 07:25:39 PM »


Maybe I'm naive but don't think that's the case.

you are

i'd say at least 80% are on something

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jerseyhurricane

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2009, 01:33:42 PM »
I think he should have been the first overall pick.  His production has been pretty good over three years, especially given that he was in RBBC with McAllister and others:

1550 yards rushing, 12 TDs
1599 yards receiving, 8 TDs
4 TDs on punt returns

I wouldn't call that a bust at all. 
   

 that would be okay if it was 1 or 2 seasons worth... especially for a #2 overall pick.
There's no way he should have been drafted over Mario Williams...even though I thought that the Texans made a mistake back then. Thank God I'm not a GM.
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andreisdaman

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2009, 11:15:19 AM »
Heath Shuler....QB picked by the Redskins.....they gave this guy a ton of dough and had him doing a lot of stuff in the community like he was the mayor or something....Bust

body88

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2009, 12:05:04 PM »
I think he should have been the first overall pick.  His production has been pretty good over three years, especially given that he was in RBBC with McAllister and others:

1550 yards rushing, 12 TDs
1599 yards receiving, 8 TDs
4 TDs on punt returns

I wouldn't call that a bust at all. 

I never liked Leinart.  Always thought he was overrated.  But I think it's too early to call him a bust too. 

I think Colt can be the QB2.  He was on 1420 the other morning and said he is about 90 percent healthy.  Did you hear they also signed Chase Daniels? 


2008  New Orleans Saints  10  9  106 404 3.8
2007  New Orleans Saints  12 10 157 581 3.7
2006  New Orleans Saints  16  8  155 565 3.6


Bush has created 1150 yards rushing (516 per year) and 1600 yards receiving (533 per year) with a 3.6 ypc avg over the last 3 years (That ypc avg is poor). 8 td's per year over three years for the 24 td's.  This cost the Saints 20 million + in guaranteed money.  You could have drafted a rb and a wr in the second and third round that could match that same production over three years for under 4 million bucks in guaranteed money.  Bush = bad draft choice.  Actually, the Saints could have had Jone Drew at #43 and Brandon Marshal at #108, traded down from their first rounder with some retard who thought Bush was a great player and had Antonio Cromartie (while creating an extra second or third rounder for 2007).

Hindsight is 20/20 but you get the point.  Bush takes away from what the saints could add with his high cost vs production ratio.  What you listed is not worth what he is being paid.

Bush is a crappy rb who is to small to be an every down player.  he's explosive but pretty much ineffective in between the tackles and is hurt all the time.  He's a good pass catcher, but so what, they throw the ball every down.  Williams was by far the better choice.

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2009, 01:59:14 PM »

2008  New Orleans Saints  10  9  106 404 3.8
2007  New Orleans Saints  12 10 157 581 3.7
2006  New Orleans Saints  16  8  155 565 3.6


Bush has created 1150 yards rushing (516 per year) and 1600 yards receiving (533 per year) with a 3.6 ypc avg over the last 3 years (awful). 8 td's per year over three years for the 24 td's.  This cost the Saints 20 million + in guaranteed money.  You could have drafted a rb and a wr in the second and third round that could match that same production over three years for under 4 million bucks in guaranteed money.  Bush = bad draft choice.  Actually, the Saints could have had Jone Drew at #43 and Brandon Marshal at #108, traded down from their first rounder with some retard who thought Bush was a great player and had Antonio Cromartie (while creating an extra second or third rounder for 2007).

off the top of my head the saints would have:

A beast of a second rb
A pro bowl wr
And a pro bowl cb
+ a draft pick
For one Reggie Bush.

Hidsight is 20/20 but you get the point.

Bush is a crappy rb who is to small to be an every down player.  He's a good pass catcher, but so what, they throw the ball every down.  Williams was by far the better choice.

Yes it is hindsight.  They also could have drafted Hester in the second.  I can look at the draft of any team in the league and find eggs all over the place.   

A crappy RB?  Hardly.  His numbers are based on sharing the load with McAllister and others.  I think he's extremely talented.  Hard to underestimate the importance of punt return TDs.  Those are typically game-changing plays.  He's a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball. 

Given what was on the table, I would have rather had him than Williams or Vince Young. 

Also, he's one of the best dual threats in the game IMO. 

Earl1972

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2009, 02:01:08 PM »
bush was supposed to be the michael jordan of football, everybody said the texans were stupid for taking williams over bush and even vince young

i don't know if i'd call him a bust but arguably the most overhyped player ever

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body88

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2009, 02:30:01 PM »
Yes it is hindsight.  They also could have drafted Hester in the second.  I can look at the draft of any team in the league and find eggs all over the place.   

A crappy RB?  Hardly.  His numbers are based on sharing the load with McAllister and others.  I think he's extremely talented.  Hard to underestimate the importance of punt return TDs.  Those are typically game-changing plays.  He's a threat to do the distance every time he touches the ball. 

Given what was on the table, I would have rather had him than Williams or Vince Young. 

Also, he's one of the best dual threats in the game IMO. 


Heres the bottom line.  The saints paid 20+ million in guaranteed money over the last three years for 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average.  Not to mention the guy is always hurt so he cant even play in a full 16 games.  Thats a bad investment and the same production can be had by smart drafting and smart veteran pick ups - for much less money. 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2009, 03:11:49 PM »

Heres the bottom line.  The saints paid 20+ million in guaranteed money over the last three years for 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average.  Not to mention the guy is always hurt so he cant even play in a full 16 games.  Thats a bad investment and the same production can be had by smart drafting and smart veteran pick ups - for much less money. 

Using hindsight, you are absolutely correct.  Using hindsight, I can draft an All Pro team every year.  But in looking at what was on the table and how players were evaluated going into the draft, with the only true choices being Young, Williams, or Bush, I think the Saints made the right choice.   

body88

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2009, 05:13:10 PM »
Using hindsight, you are absolutely correct.  Using hindsight, I can draft an All Pro team every year.  But in looking at what was on the table and how players were evaluated going into the draft, with the only true choices being Young, Williams, or Bush, I think the Saints made the right choice.   

I'm not using hindsight.  I'm saying that after three years Williams was the far better choice.  I have been arguing your point about Bush being "productive" over the last three years and saying you would have taken him first overall even after seeing how things panned out. 

I know one thing: 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average is horrible for the number two pick in the draft at the three year point.


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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2009, 05:23:23 PM »
I'm not using hindsight.  I'm saying that after three years Williams was the far better choice.  I have been arguing your point about Bush being "productive" over the last three years and saying you would have taken him first overall even after seeing how things panned out. 

I know one thing: 516 rushing yards per year, 550 receiving yards per year, 8 td's per year and a 3.6 ypc average is horrible for the number two pick in the draft at the three year point.



Don't forget the 4 return TDs.  Not horrible at all given the fact he was splitting time. 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2009, 07:10:07 PM »
Don't forget the 4 return TDs.  Not horrible at all given the fact he was splitting time. 

I didn't....if not for those return td's Bush, would have averaged 6.6 td's per year.  Look, Bush is not a bust as an NFL player, he is a bust as a sensationalized prospect who was taken much higher than he should have been.  He's not in the realm of a Peterson.  Thats a top 3 pick!  His return on the Saints investment has been poor.  They gave the guy what, 25 million up front? 

However, he does help them sell tickets, so all is not lost.

jerseyhurricane

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2009, 09:21:28 AM »
Reggie Bush... can you say Blair Thomas???
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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2009, 12:31:27 PM »
I didn't....if not for those return td's Bush, would have averaged 6.6 td's per year.  Look, Bush is not a bust as an NFL player, he is a bust as a sensationalized prospect who was taken much higher than he should have been.  He's not in the realm of a Peterson.  Thats a top 3 pick!  His return on the Saints investment has been poor.  They gave the guy what, 25 million up front? 

However, he does help them sell tickets, so all is not lost.

No he isn't AP, who as of today is the best RB in the NFL IMO.  But AP wasn't in the 2006 draft. 

I think his only major problem has been injuries.  He played in 16 games as a rookie, 12 in 07, and 10 last year.  If they start him and he plays 16 games he'll be pretty good. 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2009, 12:32:25 PM »
Reggie Bush... can you say Blair Thomas???

Not even close. 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2009, 12:38:05 PM »
I didn't....if not for those return td's Bush, would have averaged 6.6 td's per year.  Look, Bush is not a bust as an NFL player, he is a bust as a sensationalized prospect who was taken much higher than he should have been.  He's not in the realm of a Peterson.  Thats a top 3 pick!  His return on the Saints investment has been poor.  They gave the guy what, 25 million up front? 

However, he does help them sell tickets, so all is not lost.

yep.

i would never take a specialist that high. Only pass rushers go that high..and even then they should be an every down player.

He wasan everydown guy in college. The pro's..not so much

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2009, 01:16:25 PM »
yep.

i would never take a specialist that high. Only pass rushers go that high..and even then they should be an every down player.

He wasan everydown guy in college. The pro's..not so much

He split carriesw with Lendale White at USC. 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2009, 01:34:50 PM »
He split carriesw with Lendale White at USC. 


OH SHIT REALLY? LIKE, I NEVER KNEW THAT.

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2009, 01:54:13 PM »

OH SHIT REALLY? LIKE, I NEVER KNEW THAT.

Apparently you didn't, because you said he was an every down back at USC:


Quote

He wasan everydown guy in college. The pro's..not so much

So which is it?  Did you know or were you simply pulling stuff out of your rear end again? 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2009, 02:19:40 PM »
Reggie Bush... can you say Blair Thomas???




I was gonna say Blair Thomas....but I didn't think anyone would remember him!!!! ;D

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2009, 04:07:48 PM »
Apparently you didn't, because you said he was an every down back at USC:



So which is it?  Did you know or were you simply pulling stuff out of your rear end again? 

every down back as in, them using him on 1-3 downs.

nice try buddy.

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2009, 04:24:03 PM »
every down back as in, them using him on 1-3 downs.

nice try buddy.

lol.  Nice spin.  He's used exactly the same way in NO that he was used at USC:  1st through 3rd downs, but split with another RB. 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2009, 04:29:55 PM »
lol.  Nice spin.  He's used exactly the same way in NO that he was used at USC:  1st through 3rd downs, but split with another RB. 

how is that spin. It's your fault for thinking that "every down back" meant that they used him on every down and only him. People know the term every down back means a complete back...the game is a llot different in the pros.

yes they tried to use him as an every down back in N.O. but that failed, he can't run between tackles and pound it...therefor he isn't an every down back, only situational. Duece got the dive plays the first couple years. Last year it was pierre thomas

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2009, 04:38:32 PM »
how is that spin. It's your fault for thinking that "every down back" meant that they used him on every down and only him. People know the term every down back means a complete back...the game is a llot different in the pros.

yes they tried to use him as an every down back in N.O. but that failed, he can't run between tackles and pound it...therefor he isn't an every down back, only situational. Duece got the dive plays the first couple years. Last year it was pierre thomas

[sigh]  Wrong again.  Deuce was not a short yardage back.  He started.  Bush rotated.  They rotated series, not situations.  That means Bush would play an entire series:  1st, 2nd, and 3rd down. 

What's a dive play?  I think they might run those plays in high school, maybe Pop Warner.   :) 

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Re: Tony Mandarich
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2009, 04:43:47 PM »
[sigh]  Wrong again.  Deuce was not a short yardage back.  He started.  Bush rotated.  They rotated series, not situations.  That means Bush would play an entire series:  1st, 2nd, and 3rd down. 

what the hell are you talking about man?