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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on April 17, 2009, 08:24:00 AM
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So it is then a conspiracy that goes beyond 19 guys?
That's a conspiracy theory, dude.
If they had state or pvt funding, then bad guys are sitll on the loose and it was certainly more than the 911 commish reports.
And if its the case, why not investigate or even question those with knowledge to invest heavily right before? (A from 911 commission: Because we only looked at Al-Q). WTF?
By definition its hard to see those 19 hijackers acted completely on their own and that there was not one the person or entity involved.
con⋅spir⋅a⋅cy
/kənˈspɪrəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-spir-uh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
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Yes, the definition of "conspiracy" is skewed in a major way.
It was a conspiracy by definition.
pakistan pays $100k to 15 saudis to blow stuff up. We invade afghanistan.
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Yes, the definition of "conspiracy" is skewed in a major way.
It was a conspiracy by definition.
It might be, but it is what it is.
There was a 9/11 conspiracy.
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You need to watch the documentary Mohammed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus to answer all questions regarding Mohammed Atta and the INVISIBLE terrorist...
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You need to watch the documentary Mohammed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus to answer all questions regarding Mohammed Atta and the INVISIBLE terrorist...
huh?
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By definition its hard to see those 19 hijackers acted completely on their own and that there was not one the person or entity involved.
con⋅spir⋅a⋅cy
/kənˈspɪrəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-spir-uh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
It is not the kind of "conspiracy" that some like to think of, all neat and planned.
Please consider that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Sauid's, Bin Ladin is a Saudi.
Who has the largest oil export business ? Yup, the Saudi's
If the Saudi royal family sits back and lets some wackos do their dirty work, they can and did make a ton of cash from the oil $$. Simple idea here. Allow some terror attack to destabilize the US economy. Help the Iraq propoganda along as well and you get the US to squash your biggest threat in the region...Iraq.
The Sauid's got a big bennefit from 9/11 and I think were the cause.
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Howard's theory actually makes sense. 240 and Samson pay attention, you might learn something.
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You need to watch the documentary Mohammed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus to answer all questions regarding Mohammed Atta and the INVISIBLE terrorist...
good documentry.
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what the hell is the argument in this thread?
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Hugo you girl- For the second time- Who is that hot slut in your avatar? >:(
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looks like her name is Katia
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Katia Corriveau
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Howard's theory actually makes sense. 240 and Samson pay attention, you might learn something.
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if the saudis were behind it, and bush didn't spank them, then he really didn't serve america well, now did he?
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if the saudis were behind it, and bush didn't spank them, then he really didn't serve america well, now did he?
How do you relate this post to your loony toons theories , should Newton come and spank you?
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240- I don't think you need a PHD to figure out that at least some of the Saudi's were behind the attack. What was Bush supposed to do? Invade Saudi Arabia and shut down the worlds oil supply? There are hundreds of princes and other "royal" relations that are literally billionares- Which one helped Bin Laden, who the hell knows. No one there took responsibility and their government is cooperative with us behind the scenes.
Also- Dont be naive. Invading Saudi Arabia would not only alienate the entire rest of the worlds governments, but would 110% cause a massive backlash that would probably lead to WW3 and shut down our economy.
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240- I don't think you need a PHD to figure out that at least some of the Saudi's were behind the attack. What was Bush supposed to do? Invade Saudi Arabia and shut down the worlds oil supply? There are hundreds of princes and other "royal" relations that are literally billionares- Which one helped Bin Laden, who the hell knows. No one there took responsibility and their government is cooperative with us behind the scenes.
Also- Dont be naive. Invading Saudi Arabia would not only alienate the entire rest of the worlds governments, but would 110% cause a massive backlash that would probably lead to WW3 and shut down our economy.
I see.
So, to be clear with your point...
Bush didn't let 911 happen... but he did let some of those responsible get away with it?
is that your position, George?
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Because Saudis were involved their government was behind it?
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ozmo, what the hell is the point of this thread? I don't get it. There's some issue with the term conspiracy?
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ozmo, what the hell is the point of this thread? I don't get it. There's some issue with the term conspiracy?
No, no issue with the term. Although some have alluded to having an issue with it. I don't.
What i find is that in discussing/debating with some people on 9/11 is that they refer to impossibility of 19 hijackers doing it by themselves. Which is obvious. And there fore 9/11 is a conspiracy based on the definition. However that is far different from saying a missile hit the pentagon.
In other words, i want to highlight the distinction between those to "theories" that both fall under the same definition.
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240 obviously has a reading comprehension problem. Everyone knows the Saudi's fund terrorism. Who exactly in Saudi Arabia- with hundreds of billonaire relatives getting money from oil, is another question. Being that nobody took responsibility for the terrorist funding of 911- (No one ever would) we didn't invade Saudi Arabia and we went after the muscle instead of the money.
I dont think this constitutes a conspiracy- its just common sense. No missles, no fucking TNT wired in the building or any of this other garbage. A terrorist organization funded by someone in Saudi Arabia took the towers down. Ozmo is 100% right.
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Jesus Christ.
Of Course the attacks of 9/11 were a conspiracy. Legally you need to show an agreement btn 2 or more people to break the law ( and sometimes, an affirmative step to that end).
There were 19 guys working in unison to hijack airplanes. Doesn't get more conspiratorial than that.
End of story.
Now there's the speculation about 9/11 which is wrongly labeled 'conspiracy'. That's another matter.
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Jesus Christ.
Of Course the attacks of 9/11 were a conspiracy. Legally you need to show an agreement btn 2 or more people to break the law ( and sometimes, an affirmative step to that end).
There were 19 guys working in unison to hijack airplanes. Doesn't get more conspiratorial than that.
End of story.
Now there's the speculation about 9/11 which is wrongly labeled 'conspiracy'. That's another matter.
exactly, I still don't get what ozmo is getting at for sure.
but speculation on a suggested conspiracy like that which goes on with 9/11 is a conspiracy theory or open to conspiracy.
I think the term conspiracy theory gets a bad rap. How many times does the prosecution have a conspiracy theory? Anytime they're trying to make a case that 2 or more conspired to... They build a theory and attempt to support that with testimony and evidence. That's really all that a person with a CT is doing but they're not in a courtroom. Even the media is into conspiracy theories. I've watched a lot of investigative journalism over the years that suggested conspiracy which led to legit investigations and people facing conspiracy charges among other charges. The only difference with 9/11 is that the major media won't touch that even though there is a pretty large public demand.
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exactly, I still don't get what ozmo is getting at for sure.
but speculation on a suggested conspiracy like that which goes on with 9/11 is a conspiracy theory or open to conspiracy.
I think the term conspiracy theory gets a bad rap. How many times does the prosecution have a conspiracy theory? Anytime they're trying to make a case that 2 or more conspired to... They build a theory and attempt to support that with testimony and evidence. That's really all that a person with a CT is doing but they're not in a courtroom.
Exactly, but there's a distinction between CT's. 19 Hijackers had help versus the WTC wired with thermite
Even the media is into conspiracy theories. I've watched a lot of investigative journalism over the years that suggested conspiracy which led to legit investigations and people facing conspiracy charges among other charges.
The media is into conspiracy theories because they sell advertising. Americans love CT's.
The only difference with 9/11 is that the major media won't touch that even though there is a pretty large public demand.
Doesn't seem to be otherwise the movement would be much larger. I think most people, as I've outlined, see it 2 different ways.
1. 19 hijackers had help
2. Missiles into the pentagon, WTC wired with thermite, etc...
I think most people dismiss the later as ridiculous. Of course there's many that don't. But it's a very small part of it.
Then there's the larger group pf people that have many unanswered questions, that perhaps see the official report as a cover up for massive intelligence failures, trails to other governments, etc...
In time , there will be a "investigative journalism" piece on the 9/11 cover ups. Bush and his boys just got out of office. :)
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2 different ways.
1. 19 hijackers had help
2. Missiles into the pentagon, WTC wired with thermite, etc...
Here's the problem.
How much "help" did they have from certain Americans?
Transportation Secretary Norman minetta testifying that Cheney was told the object was 40, 30, 20, 10 miles out by an aide, and screaming "Yes, of course the order still stands, did you hear anything different?"
What was that order?
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Here's the problem.
How much "help" did they have from certain Americans?
Transportation Secretary Norman minetta testifying that Cheney was told the object was 40, 30, 20, 10 miles out by an aide, and screaming "Yes, of course the order still stands, did you hear anything different?"
What was that order?
Or if they had any help at all.
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Exactly, but there's a distinction between CT's. 19 Hijackers had help versus the WTC wired with thermite
Not sure who would dispute that? They're both accusations of conspiracy, one accepted by the government and one accused by a group of people. This isn't new or shocking in any way which I guess is why I really didn't get your point.
The media is into conspiracy theories because they sell advertising. Americans love CT's.
The media has failed because they sell advertising. They no longer wish to really rock the boat with serious inquiry for fear of losing money. When they have done investigative reports uncovering conspiratorial wrong doing, that's not necessarily done because they sell advertising.
Doesn't seem to be otherwise the movement would be much larger. I think most people, as I've outlined, see it 2 different ways.
1. 19 hijackers had help
2. Missiles into the pentagon, WTC wired with thermite, etc...
I think most people dismiss the later as ridiculous. Of course there's many that don't. But it's a very small part of it.
Then there's the larger group pf people that have many unanswered questions, that perhaps see the official report as a cover up for massive intelligence failures, trails to other governments, etc...
In time , there will be a "investigative journalism" piece on the 9/11 cover ups. Bush and his boys just got out of office. :)
polls have shown there are more Americans concerned about a larger conspiracy around 9/11 than probably all other conspiracy accusations combined.
These are not the kind of numbers that you can dismiss as fringe or irrelevant. 1/3 believing in a larger conspiracy and 2/3 believing that at least government officials intentionally looked the other way. There have been a few of these polls done over the years and none of them have returned "very small" numbers.
http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll
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Not sure who would dispute that? They're both accusations of conspiracy, one accepted by the government and one accused by a group of people. This isn't new or shocking in any way which I guess is why I really didn't get your point.
The media has failed because they sell advertising. They no longer wish to really rock the boat with serious inquiry for fear of losing money. When they have done investigative reports uncovering conspiratorial wrong doing, that's not necessarily done because they sell advertising.polls have shown there are more Americans concerned about a larger conspiracy around 9/11 than probably all other conspiracy accusations combined.
These are not the kind of numbers that you can dismiss as fringe or irrelevant. 1/3 believing in a larger conspiracy and 2/3 believing that at least government officials intentionally looked the other way. There have been a few of these polls done over the years and none of them have returned "very small" numbers.
http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll
I agree with you about the media losing its integrity to money. However, the larger conspiracy they are concerned about is not: Explosives in the WTC's, Missiles into the pentagon, passengers getting executed at some secret based to further the world order etc...
People who believe that at a very small percentage (up to 16%) outside of the 1/3 and 2/3 you identified.
If only 16% would actually believe that the WTC's were wired, it does not make good business for the credibility of a major news outlet to do a show supporting that theory, unless there is real evidence of it outside nut job web sites and non peer reviewed science.
I'm willing to bet there at least 16% of Americans who cant competently tell where Japan is located. so I'm not surprised 1 in 6 people would actually believe some of that stuff.
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I agree with you about the media losing its integrity to money. However, the larger conspiracy they are concerned about is not: Explosives in the WTC's, Missiles into the pentagon, passengers getting executed at some secret based to further the world order etc...
People who believe that at a very small percentage (up to 16%) outside of the 1/3 and 2/3 you identified.
If only 16% would actually believe that the WTC's were wired, it does not make good business for the credibility of a major news outlet to do a show supporting that theory, unless there is real evidence of it outside nut job web sites and non peer reviewed science.
I'm willing to bet there at least 16% of Americans who cant competently tell where Japan is located. so I'm not surprised 1 in 6 people would actually believe some of that stuff.
16% is still not what I would call "very small" Other than that I agree with most of what you said. Still don't get the point of the thread. It's to say there is those who believe the official conspiracy and those who believe in a different version? yea and? Wasn't that already a given?
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I can't understand why some of you take debating with 240 seriously, I feel like I'm watching the special Olympics here.
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I can't understand why some of you take debating with 240 seriously, I feel like I'm watching the special Olympics here.
well, you're a phd candidate in mechianical engineering who speaks 5 languages and enjoys hip hop music who spells words incorrectly just to test us. You're obviously heads and shoulders above the rest of us.
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well, you're a phd candidate in mechianical engineering who speaks 5 languages and enjoys hip hop music who spells words incorrectly just to test us. You're obviously heads and shoulders above the rest of us.
LOL
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well, you're a phd candidate in mechianical engineering who speaks 5 languages and enjoys hip hop music who spells words incorrectly just to test us. You're obviously heads and shoulders above the rest of us.
Nice try to conceal your BS with exaggeration, kind of like when you proved that the US went to Iraq for the oil when you quoted 100 Trillion barrels ;D
Your exaggeration technique doesn't work here boy. Unlike you, you will never catch me bullshitting, I will delete my account if you will find one post of mine claiming any of what you said boy. On the other hand, you got caught on lies several times :-*
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Nice try to conceal your BS with exaggeration, kind of like when you proved that the US went to Iraq for the oil when you quoted 100 Trillion barrels ;D
Your exaggeration technique doesn't work here boy. Unlike you, you will never catch me bullshitting, I will delete my account if you will find one post of mine claiming any of what you said boy. On the other hand, you got caught on lies several times :-*
That took about 60 seconds. Delete your account :)
Not to mention taking the war to their grounds.
You cant stay in defensive mode,you cant keep track of everything and anyone that gets in the US.
The death toll of 9/11 was almost the same as the entire Iraqi war,by taking the war to them you make your home safer and with the possibility of a dirty bomb exploding in a major city this sort of action is a must.
Bush is a cowboy,he saw the target and went for it and said fuck all you idiots that say no.
There is a reason to why a president have veto power and is almost impossible to be impeached,its in order to give him the freedom and safety to do longterm plans and thats what Bush did.
That's some bullshitting right there.
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Your exaggeration technique doesn't work here boy. Unlike you, you will never catch me bullshitting
The death toll of 9/11 was almost the same as the entire Iraqi war
3000 people died on 9/11.
4200+ soldiers have died in Iraq, along with (a VERY conservative estimate of) 50,000 Iraqis died. Most estimates are much higher.
Is 3000 "almost the same as" 54,000
???
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how about Bush is a Cowboy :D and Presidents are almost impossible to be impeached :D LOLOL and the best, "taking the war to them you make your home safer "
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I can't understand why some of you take debating with 240 seriously, I feel like I'm watching the special Olympics here.
The only reason you feel like that is because intellectually you are a retard :)
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16% is still not what I would call "very small" Other than that I agree with most of what you said. Still don't get the point of the thread. It's to say there is those who believe the official conspiracy and those who believe in a different version? yea and? Wasn't that already a given?
Not really, IMO. I think, if i remember correctly, some 2/3 people believed there was a conspiracy in the JFK assassination. And from that we got lots of stuff from the media including the mythic JFK movie by Oliver Stone. 16% of the american population believing "x". I bet you could find 16% of us believing some crazy stuff.
When it comes to different versions of the conspiracy there is no comparison. Believing 19 hijackers had help is totally different from believing the WTC were wired. I wouldn't put those people in the same category.
But the point is, 9/11 was a conspiracy.
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But the point is, 9/11 was a conspiracy.
well yea, was that in question?
also, I have nowhere to go if you think 2/3 of the population believing a conspiracy in the JFK case is also irrelevant. I guess it would take the whole country in unison on the rampage about it to ruffle you :D
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well yea, was that in question?
also, I have nowhere to go if you think 2/3 of the population believing a conspiracy in the JFK case is also irrelevant.
Did i say I believe its irrelevant? ???
The 9/11 conspiracy is not in question. It's the distinction between the 16% that believe the WTC's where brought down by explosives and the 66% that believe the official story isn't complete or parts of it are not true.
I guess it would take the whole country in unison on the rampage about it to ruffle you :D
Not really. Facts would ruffle me. Not popular belief. In the 9/11 conspiracy of WTC's wired for explosives and such, there are no real determining facts. Same with JFK. Same with the moon landing. Lots of speculation though.
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The 9/11 conspiracy is not in question.
Ah, for a lot of ignorant people, it is.
"hahaha, that guy thinks 911 is a conspiracy, what a dumass (sic)."
I think we've seen that quote about 10,000,000 times on getbig. oz, you're a mod on the political board. You're no dummy. but the average poster can't tell the difference between a theory on thermite, one that bush let it happen, or one that saudis and pakis paid atta to do it.
they just use the conspiracy term to wrap it all up.
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Ah, for a lot of ignorant people, it is.
"hahaha, that guy thinks 911 is a conspiracy, what a dumass (sic)."
I think we've seen that quote about 10,000,000 times on getbig. oz, you're a mod on the political board. You're no dummy. but the average poster can't tell the difference between a theory on thermite, one that bush let it happen, or one that saudis and pakis paid atta to do it.
they just use the conspiracy term to wrap it all up.
This is kind of what I'm talking about. People call those who believe in a 9/11 CT nuts because they associate them with the WTC wired for explosives group. But the reality is, 9/11 was a conspiracy.
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But the reality is, 9/11 was a conspiracy.
you're parading that like it's a special revelation? Is this like an ah-ha I'm not getting or what?
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you're parading that like it's a special revelation? Is this like an ah-ha I'm not getting or what?
no.
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That took about 60 seconds. Delete your account :)
That's some bullshitting right there.
You god damn retarded asshole, that post was an opinion, my opinion.
On the other hand 240 invented facts, like Iraq oil reserves and WTC7 falling speed, the last post regarding my personal details, now that's bullshit.
If people would delete their accounts for bullshit opinions you wouldn't have reached your second post.
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You god damn retarded asshole, that post was an opinion, my opinion.
yea, a bullshitting opinion... delete delete delete...
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yea, a bullshitting opinion... delete delete delete...
Poor little boy want people to stop calling on his BS? You and 240 make quite the couple, so who's the receiver ? Do you two feed each other as much dick as you feed BS and grow off the lies of the other?
I still can't understand why you're so pissed, I proved over and over that he is a liar and I'm calling him on it, he NEVER replied to any of those subjects after being exposed. Once I proved him that WTC7 didn't fall at that speed he went into meltdown mode and started posting tons of fucked up videos and after he lied on Iraq reservoirs he evaporated from that thread.
So you prefer a liar with similar opinions to an honest man with different opinions? Nice, I guess you really are Chavez greatest fanboy.