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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Ontheway on June 30, 2009, 12:42:10 AM
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Hey guys,
We had a discussion with some friends yesterday on how long to stay on. We all agree on the rull "as long off as on"...
But some were arguing that being 35 years old you can for example stay on 250 mg of testo as long as you want, cause basically you are just replacing what you don´t have naturally anymore... You are not "destroying your body"...
Same for winstrol, that you can use it for 20 weeks constant no problem..
I have done some searches and I have also stayed on for testo for 16 straight weeks but that was the longest I ever dared too (I am around 35 and was using 250 mg/w)...
Can somebody give some insight into our discussions??
Thanks,
t
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The on/off rule is there for a reason, after a while your receptor's stop responding the same, plus your body just gets worn out, longest cycle for me was 4 months, then 4 month break.
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normal 16 weeks always
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6-8 months
switch it up, up the dosage
done
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after a while your receptor's stop responding the same, plus your body just gets worn out..
no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...
the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started
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no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...
the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started
While androgen receptors do down regulate over time, I agree that it's overblown and an eccentric conclusion to jump to right ou of the gate. Diet and training are pivotal. I'd point my
finger at SHBG before AR receptors as well. Still far off and not as big a detriment as a stagnant diet and training.
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no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...
the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started
Again, dude...something I've seen with many years of experience having a ton of friends that juice, as opooste theory
don't worry, one day you'll learn ;)
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burning out receptors LOL biggest bs ever just change drug compounds if you dont feel anything anymore
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in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder. :)
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in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder. :)
You're right dude, we should all stay on for 5 years straight, until we make those great gains we wanted ::) ::)
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You're right dude, we should all stay on for 5 years straight, until we make those great gains we wanted ::) ::)
see, if you didnt put those little emoticons there, i would think you were being obtuse and not sarcastic........ :) :)
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in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder. :)
I fully agree. Once you are beyond your natural genetic max you WILL lose muscle while off and simply go up and down in weight. It only makes sense. You can't cheat mother nature.
The only exception is if you use insulin and GH while "off" AAS, but even then you can only get so big before you just have to stay on to retain your gains.
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and let me further qualify this by saying that i do not promote the 5 year on plan like cap eq mentioned.........there are logical ways to mainain hard-earned mass while in between cycles..........i would say it is realistic to spend about about half the amount of total cycle time off...........tht means if you are on a twelve week cycle.........at least try to take 6 off.........if you are working towards a specific goal, like a competition, and cannot afford to go into a catabolic state...........bridging with a low dose of test or deca works pretty well........a shot of cyp every week or two.
if you can afford it, a couple units of growth a day, is also a reasonable way to maintain gains........and when you start becoming a real student of the game........you will learn about bridging with t3, gh, slin or possibly 1gf-1
but something as simple a 30g of creatin a day will certainly have a positive effect.
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I have been clean for nearly 9 years.....but when I was on the gear.....I would stay on no longer than 12 weeks.......2, 12 week cycles a year.
Usually deca or durateston......one amp every 5 days......and either 50mgs of Anadrol or 20mgs of dianabol......nothing too crazy......never used any growth or clenbuterol.......defini tely no synthol.........you can grow on rather small amounts of gear. IMHO
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no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...
the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started
I actually agree with Captain E on this one.
seems my body gets a worn out look and I start losing some pumps after being on the juice for a while
maybe it's just in my head but I don't think so
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in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder. :)
Yes Agree very much. Sure the more moderation someone takes with the gear use the less chance for sides. Something like 2 cycles a year 500-600mg EW total per cycle for 12 weeks, will be a nice safe bet for someone concerned with sides. But they will not make any dramatic changes to their physiques as they take 2 steps forward, 1.9 steps back cycling like that.
While androgen receptors do down regulate over time, I agree that it's overblown and an eccentric conclusion to jump to right ou of the gate. Diet and training are pivotal.
Well put. Same can be said about all receptors in your body including clenbuterol, have always thought and felt in my experience the whole receptor thing there is overblown, another case of someone a long time ago comimg up with a theory, similar to the steroid receptor degradation crew. There is no science to back this up, just urban myth.
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This also comes down to your goals, if you're trying to be a top NPC competitor or Pro, then of course you will have to stay on for longer and longer and do heavier and heavier cycles as you move forward in size and down in bf%. If you're a gym rat that likes having a great physique with the assistance of steroids (like me) then you will do the smart rational thing and do two 2-3 month cycles a year and take some time off and let your HPTA recover.
One of my friends that's a pro destroyed his natural test production, he's a middle eastern guy who's been juicing hard and heavy for over 20 years (hard = fina, anadrol, suspension, halo, cheque drops) he now can no longer have kids, and his wife is not happy. He fucked himself and his future/offspring for a pro card.
:)
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in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder. :)
Definitely true, as you grow obviously you need more gear, calories too. People expect the same gains using a certain amount of mg's, meanwhile their muscle mass has went up 10-20%.
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Definitely true, as you grow obviously you need more gear, calories too. People expect the same gains using a certain amount of mg's, meanwhile their muscle mass has went up 10-20%.
No, I for one was talking about the law of diminishing returns.
keep on believing your fantasies guys..that your lack of gains/growth on prolonged use of gear is due to diet.. LOL
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No, I for one was talking about the law of diminishing returns.
keep on believing your fantasies guys..that your lack of gains/growth on prolonged use of gear is due to diet.. LOL
Agree you can keep eating more and more and the only thing after a point is you are "growing" more fat. Personally i believe there is a ceiling in everyone that will determine how much muscle you can build, tons of gear or no gear it does not matter.
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Agree you can keep eating more and more and the only thing after a point is you are "growing" more fat. Personally i believe there is a ceiling in everyone that will determine how much muscle you can build, tons of gear or no gear it does not matter.
It's like red lining your car with every shift...at some point that engine's gonna go...the body needs a break every once in a while as well..you can't keep going 120% non stop
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This also comes down to your goals, if you're trying to be a top NPC competitor or Pro, then of course you will have to stay on for longer and longer and do heavier and heavier cycles as you move forward in size and down in bf%. If you're a gym rat that likes having a great physique with the assistance of steroids (like me) then you will do the smart rational thing and do two 2-3 month cycles a year and take some time off and let your HPTA recover.
One of my friends that's a pro destroyed his natural test production, he's a middle eastern guy who's been juicing hard and heavy for over 20 years (hard = fina, anadrol, suspension, halo, cheque drops) he now can no longer have kids, and his wife is not happy. He fucked himself and his future/offspring for a pro card.
:)
thats my greatest fear
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Definitely true, as you grow obviously you need more gear, calories too. People expect the same gains using a certain amount of mg's, meanwhile their muscle mass has went up 10-20%.
exactly.
for X amount of muscle, Y amount of steroid will produce T results...as long as there is a sufficient diet.
then the person gets XX muscle, and expects Y to still produce T result. with more muscle, there will need to be more gear..in order to keep growing at the same rate.
and not only does a person need more gear to grow at the same rate, but also more food.
if your gaining 1 lb a week for the first 10 weeks and you were eating 3000 calories per day... and then you stop gainign a pound a week and now its a pound a month... thats because your no longer activating the same % of receptors and yoru caloric surplus is now smaller because of an increased BMR from increased muscle mass.
more muscle = more gear = more food.
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This also comes down to your goals, if you're trying to be a top NPC competitor or Pro, then of course you will have to stay on for longer and longer and do heavier and heavier cycles as you move forward in size and down in bf%. If you're a gym rat that likes having a great physique with the assistance of steroids (like me) then you will do the smart rational thing and do two 2-3 month cycles a year and take some time off and let your HPTA recover.
One of my friends that's a pro destroyed his natural test production, he's a middle eastern guy who's been juicing hard and heavy for over 20 years (hard = fina, anadrol, suspension, halo, cheque drops) he now can no longer have kids, and his wife is not happy. He fucked himself and his future/offspring for a pro card.
:)
its not like he didn't know the consequences...
+ getting a pro card is quite an achievement and his wife should recognise...
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more muscle = more gear = more food.
Add in luv2hurt quote about 2 steps forward 1.9 back with short/time on-time off cycles and thats the bottom line.
If there are no side issues, which most people dont have btw, if your goal to get as big and muscular as you can possibly get, theres no reason to not keep going until youve reached your potential. Which is usually when your doses in relation to your response to the drugs have been maxed out, the point of diminishing returns. Everyone's different in that regard.
If you want to see what your car can do, you dont keep backing off the accelerator every time you get to 3500 rmp and start over time and time again, you never get there.
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go off when you decide to not lift weights seriously like when your 40 or 50, till then stay on.
jt
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go off when you decide to not lift weights seriously like when your 40 or 50, till then stay on.
jt
Damn JT why would you not wanna seriously lift weights when your in your 40s and 50s? Thats when the gear can be really handy.
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Damn JT why would you not wanna seriously lift weights when your in your 40s and 50s? Thats when the gear can be really handy.
i prolly will be too tired of weights by then i would guess, just get bored of the shit, being doin it for so long. Maybe I still will be, but I doubt it. How old are you luv?
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i prolly will be too tired of weights by then i would guess, just get bored of the shit, being doin it for so long. Maybe I still will be, but I doubt it. How old are you luv?
LOL thats why I said it Im in my 40's :'(
During a period in my early to mid 30's I trained very little so I guess I took a break. Thing is when you get on in years is when you wanna make sure you are still training, keeps you young.
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One thing that surprises me is that there is so much knowledge on this board as well as som much dashing...:) really sometimes I am just LOL on some things, but then I post this question and you get all this... thanks guys!
Let me clear one thing. I have no intention on becoming a pro. I have had a lot of shit in my life lately, that basically drained my energy. I just hated waking up in the morning and I could go home after the first set in the gym. Not to mention no lust for sex. Stress at work and stress at home took its toll... All this at 34, NOT fun!
I have tried to eliminate most of it, but still... so I have read about testosterone supplementation and decided to give it a try. I have been on 250 mg/w cypionate since April.
Results: I am lean, I wake up with a hardon every morning, I am overperforming at my job (got promoted), I can hit gym after 3 hours of sleep, I am not fighting with my GF cause I am tired and moody... But HEY it has been almost 4 months now! I have done one HCG cycle to be safe some week ago. Somewhere in my head I start worry cause of the length of the cycle and I know I should stop... But then I am thinking it is "only" 250 mg/w and being 34 that is not much, although I am affraid of shutting of my own testo production...
No sides so far...
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LOL thats why I said it Im in my 40's :'(
During a period in my early to mid 30's I trained very little so I guess I took a break. Thing is when you get on in years is when you wanna make sure you are still training, keeps you young.
haha thats funny, prolly will happen to me too, the older i get i still feel like im youger than my age i can't imagine being 40 or 50. I hope my body holds up well that long.
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One thing that surprises me is that there is so much knowledge on this board as well as som much dashing...:) really sometimes I am just LOL on some things, but then I post this question and you get all this... thanks guys!
Let me clear one thing. I have no intention on becoming a pro. I have had a lot of shit in my life lately, that basically drained my energy. I just hated waking up in the morning and I could go home after the first set in the gym. Not to mention no lust for sex. Stress at work and stress at home took its toll... All this at 34, NOT fun!
I have tried to eliminate most of it, but still... so I have read about testosterone supplementation and decided to give it a try. I have been on 250 mg/w cypionate since April.
Results: I am lean, I wake up with a hardon every morning, I am overperforming at my job (got promoted), I can hit gym after 3 hours of sleep, I am not fighting with my GF cause I am tired and moody... But HEY it has been almost 4 months now! I have done one HCG cycle to be safe some week ago. Somewhere in my head I start worry cause of the length of the cycle and I know I should stop... But then I am thinking it is "only" 250 mg/w and being 34 that is not much, although I am affraid of shutting of my own testo production...
No sides so far...
why not just stay on 250 mg /w for however you feel it is working well for you. I doubt it will raise your BP much it is a very low dose, and the positive effects far outway the negative imo, I mean at 34 do you plan on having kids anytime later on in life, I would just stay with 250 a week for now and not plan to come off.
also 3hrs of sleep is just crazy to do everynight, that right there will stress you out and make your brain not fuction well, you need around 6 or so at least will make you feel so much better.
jt
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yes I do plan to have kids at some point, but right now it just doesn´t feel like the right time or having the right partner... maybe I should trade one for a limited edition Ipod... :) learnt from Brüno :)
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yes I do plan to have kids at some point, but right now it just doesn´t feel like the right time or having the right partner... maybe I should trade one for a limited edition Ipod... :) learnt from Brüno :)
LOL
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DIE BIG DIE STRONG as long as my health is good i will be lifting and supplementing i plan on getting to a certain size and then stop the gear for a while and just try to maintain as much of what i gained and then when iam old enough ill start doing it through inssurence yeah buddy i want to look like RAMBO when im 60
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So I am on since 1st of March meaning 8 months (32 weeks) using 250 mg of Test. Did 3 HCG cycles inbetween...
What I can see now is some more acne on my back... But otherwise life feels still like a 18 year old.
Blood test done 1 time in July all good...
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I hav been on since march as well...this is my last week:-(..I'm going to stay on the growth this whole year so hopefully that will help retain some more of my gains
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So I am on since 1st of March meaning 8 months (32 weeks) using 250 mg of Test. Did 3 HCG cycles inbetween...
What I can see now is some more acne on my back... But otherwise life feels still like a 18 year old.
Blood test done 1 time in July all good...
I'm starting to think this is the best way to use test... under 500mg/week but for longer periods of time and consitently, I'm too lazy to pin in the winter/fall so I usually take 2-3 andriol's a day and feel fucking amazing, like an 18 year old again as well..it just rejuvinates you, of course you can add other light stuff around it like anavar and winstrol since you're already taking something to compromise your natural HPTA :)
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So I am on since 1st of March meaning 8 months (32 weeks) using 250 mg of Test. Did 3 HCG cycles inbetween...
What I can see now is some more acne on my back... But otherwise life feels still like a 18 year old.
Blood test done 1 time in July all good...
ask your doc for some mild acne med, nothing like accutane, but something to cool it down a little.
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I'm starting to think this is the best way to use test... under 500mg/week but for longer periods of time and consitently, I'm too lazy to pin in the winter/fall so I usually take 2-3 andriol's a day and feel fucking amazing, like an 18 year old again as well..it just rejuvinates you, of course you can add other light stuff around it like anavar and winstrol since you're already taking something to compromise your natural HPTA :)
yeah this is great, just whatever wets your appetite in between just try it out for fun, btw your so sexy.
jt
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Hey guys,
We had a discussion with some friends yesterday on how long to stay on. We all agree on the rull "as long off as on"...
But some were arguing that being 35 years old you can for example stay on 250 mg of testo as long as you want, cause basically you are just replacing what you don´t have naturally anymore... You are not "destroying your body"...
Same for winstrol, that you can use it for 20 weeks constant no problem..
I have done some searches and I have also stayed on for testo for 16 straight weeks but that was the longest I ever dared too (I am around 35 and was using 250 mg/w)...
Can somebody give some insight into our discussions??
Thanks,
t
At age 44, I'm just finishing out my longest straight cycle to date, a full 8 months of serious compounds, and am cycling down now on just prop for 4 more weeks. Results were unbelievable. Sad to see it end, really...
Should be shooting pool with a rope by December :(.
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At age 44, I'm just finishing out my longest straight cycle to date, a full 8 months of serious compounds, and am cycling down now on just prop for 4 more weeks. Results were unbelievable. Sad to see it end, really...
Should be shooting pool with a rope by December :(.
dude why not just stay on?
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Ya just stay on with a lower dose. I started 750/week enanthate last Nov and i feel great. Blood work done every 3 months and last BP was 119/72. Iam also 44 and have used much higher doses when i competed but since i have no plans to compete in the near future i will cruise at this dose. I find you have to juice in your forties or you feel and look like crap.
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I am on test and HCG prescribed by my doctor. I have been for over 3 years now. I am 34. I get my blood tested every 3 months and my dosage goes up and down based on the results. But for the most part its been 1.5 - 2 ML per 7 days. I got a little worried that maybe this could be bad so I consulted another doctor and he told me that it was healthy because its not what you take its what your levels are. I get my heart measured once every 9 months. It hasnt grown at all. My doctor told me this rules out the typical heart problems that abusers encounter. So from what I gather from asking my doctor a lot of questions testosterone isnt bad if you are using it to keep yourself in a normal range. Its when you make yourself have gorilla level that you will inevitably have heart problems because your heart is a muscle and steroids will undoubtedly make it grow like every other muscle. Make not mistake, on only that amount I get some great results. Im sure im not as big as some of the monsters on this board, but I am definitely big, I feel great and I dont go to sleep worried that I'm destroying my body.
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I am on test and HCG prescribed by my doctor. I have been for over 3 years now. I am 34. I get my blood tested every 3 months and my dosage goes up and down based on the results. But for the most part its been 1.5 - 2 ML per 7 days. I got a little worried that maybe this could be bad so I consulted another doctor and he told me that it was healthy because its not what you take its what your levels are. I get my heart measured once every 9 months. It hasnt grown at all. My doctor told me this rules out the typical heart problems that abusers encounter. So from what I gather from asking my doctor a lot of questions testosterone isnt bad if you are using it to keep yourself in a normal range. Its when you make yourself have gorilla level that you will inevitably have heart problems because your heart is a muscle and steroids will undoubtedly make it grow like every other muscle. Make not mistake, on only that amount I get some great results. Im sure im not as big as some of the monsters on this board, but I am definitely big, I feel great and I dont go to sleep worried that I'm destroying my body.
Why did your doctor put you on hrt at 31? Seems like a big dose, 1.5-2ML every 7 days, for hrt. Good info btw about the heart testing.
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Why did your doctor put you on hrt at 31? Seems like a big dose, 1.5-2ML every 7 days, for hrt. Good info btw about the heart testing.
he didn't say how it was dosed per ml, it could be dosed at 50mg per ml for all we know.
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I am on test and HCG prescribed by my doctor. I have been for over 3 years now. I am 34. I get my blood tested every 3 months and my dosage goes up and down based on the results. But for the most part its been 1.5 - 2 ML per 7 days. I got a little worried that maybe this could be bad so I consulted another doctor and he told me that it was healthy because its not what you take its what your levels are. I get my heart measured once every 9 months. It hasnt grown at all. My doctor told me this rules out the typical heart problems that abusers encounter. So from what I gather from asking my doctor a lot of questions testosterone isnt bad if you are using it to keep yourself in a normal range. Its when you make yourself have gorilla level that you will inevitably have heart problems because your heart is a muscle and steroids will undoubtedly make it grow like every other muscle. Make not mistake, on only that amount I get some great results. Im sure im not as big as some of the monsters on this board, but I am definitely big, I feel great and I dont go to sleep worried that I'm destroying my body.
You know the "heart enlargement" aspect is something that's been talked about for years. I am not convinced either way as to what the absolute truth is on this matter. Yes, the heart is a muscle, and based on that alone it would be possible that it could grow somewhat if testosterone is taken raising levels above normal. And heart enlargement, that's a pretty serious issue, an enlarged heart is typically not good news.
Then when you look at say the last 40 years, all the men who have used testosterone for bodybuilding purposes, there are several who have had serious heart issues, there have been deaths. None of those deaths have been 100% proven to be caused by AAS but there is a lot of speculation. Then we look at the millions who have used testosterone and the total number of men who have had these heart problems does not seem to be that high.
Freakfest MD, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about this if you're around. I know this is not your specialty but if anyone on here could have a viable thought, I figured it would be you.
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One thing that surprises me is that there is so much knowledge on this board as well as som much dashing...:) really sometimes I am just LOL on some things, but then I post this question and you get all this... thanks guys!
Let me clear one thing. I have no intention on becoming a pro. I have had a lot of shit in my life lately, that basically drained my energy. I just hated waking up in the morning and I could go home after the first set in the gym. Not to mention no lust for sex. Stress at work and stress at home took its toll... All this at 34, NOT fun!
I have tried to eliminate most of it, but still... so I have read about testosterone supplementation and decided to give it a try. I have been on 250 mg/w cypionate since April.
Results: I am lean, I wake up with a hardon every morning, I am overperforming at my job (got promoted), I can hit gym after 3 hours of sleep, I am not fighting with my GF cause I am tired and moody... But HEY it has been almost 4 months now! I have done one HCG cycle to be safe some week ago. Somewhere in my head I start worry cause of the length of the cycle and I know I should stop... But then I am thinking it is "only" 250 mg/w and being 34 that is not much, although I am affraid of shutting of my own testo production...
No sides so far...
Wow bro you have it all wrong. First off you don't really cycle HCG in the sense that you do it for a week or so and then get off. If your going to run HCG While your "ON", and not for PCT then you need to get on it and stay on it other wise your probably just doing more harm than good. Shutting down your HTPA and restarting it with HCG over and over is not a good. Either remain shut down, or remain on HCG creating your own natty test. Desensitization does not come from duration of HCG use, but is rather dose dependent. You really need to be more educated before running these powerful drugs.
250mg of test ew is more of a replacement dose than a cycle, which is probably what you need. If I was you I would get some blood work done, and see where your levels are at and maybe continue the TRT for life. At 34 yoa, you are right there as far as possible low test goes. THere is nothing wrong with being on TRT, but it is a life long commitment for true TRT. You described a lot of the symptoms of low testosterone in your post. Do your self a favor and look into it, it may be a good thing for you. I also suspect you could save your self a little bit of $$ and drop your dose down to 150-200mg ew and get just as good results. This post is not flaming bro, just educating.
One thing I want to stress is shutting down and restarting your HTPA too many times is not a good thing and we will not get away with it to many times before something breaks. Either remain shut down, or remain full functioning. You can use HCG while on TRT and remain full functioning. Just be wise when using these drugs, because they can be harsh.
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Wow bro you have it all wrong. First off you don't really cycle HCG in the sense that you do it for a week or so and then get off. If your going to run HCG While your "ON", and not for PCT then you need to get on it and stay on it other wise your probably just doing more harm than good. Shutting down your HTPA and restarting it with HCG over and over is not a good. Either remain shut down, or remain on HCG creating your own natty test. Desensitization does not come from duration of HCG use, but is rather dose dependent. You really need to be more educated before running these powerful drugs.
250mg of test ew is more of a replacement dose than a cycle, which is probably what you need. If I was you I would get some blood work done, and see where your levels are at and maybe continue the TRT for life. At 34 yoa, you are right there as far as possible low test goes. THere is nothing wrong with being on TRT, but it is a life long commitment for true TRT. You described a lot of the symptoms of low testosterone in your post. Do your self a favor and look into it, it may be a good thing for you. I also suspect you could save your self a little bit of $$ and drop your dose down to 150-200mg ew and get just as good results. This post is not flaming bro, just educating.
One thing I want to stress is shutting down and restarting your HTPA too many times is not a good thing and we will not get away with it to many times before something breaks. Either remain shut down, or remain full functioning. You can use HCG while on TRT and remain full functioning. Just be wise when using these drugs, because they can be harsh.
good post, love the quote this post is not flaming bro, just educting, so smooth so sexual so 4thAD!
also i think it is good if you going to get on gear, stay on, cycling just keeps shutting you down and on, can't be good for your system I can't think.
jt
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good post, love the quote this post is not flaming bro, just educting, so smooth so sexual so 4thAD!
also i think it is good if you going to get on gear, stay on, cycling just keeps shutting you down and on, can't be good for your system I can't think.
jt
Haha thats good stuff Jt! So sexual LOL ;D
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Wow bro you have it all wrong. First off you don't really cycle HCG in the sense that you do it for a week or so and then get off. If your going to run HCG While your "ON", and not for PCT then you need to get on it and stay on it other wise your probably just doing more harm than good. Shutting down your HTPA and restarting it with HCG over and over is not a good. Either remain shut down, or remain on HCG creating your own natty test. Desensitization does not come from duration of HCG use, but is rather dose dependent. You really need to be more educated before running these powerful drugs.
250mg of test ew is more of a replacement dose than a cycle, which is probably what you need. If I was you I would get some blood work done, and see where your levels are at and maybe continue the TRT for life. At 34 yoa, you are right there as far as possible low test goes. THere is nothing wrong with being on TRT, but it is a life long commitment for true TRT. You described a lot of the symptoms of low testosterone in your post. Do your self a favor and look into it, it may be a good thing for you. I also suspect you could save your self a little bit of $$ and drop your dose down to 150-200mg ew and get just as good results. This post is not flaming bro, just educating.
One thing I want to stress is shutting down and restarting your HTPA too many times is not a good thing and we will not get away with it to many times before something breaks. Either remain shut down, or remain full functioning. You can use HCG while on TRT and remain full functioning. Just be wise when using these drugs, because they can be harsh.
What do you do about "ball shrinkage"??? I have read some people do HCG midd cycle to evit the shrinkage...
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What do you do about "ball shrinkage"??? I have read some people do HCG midd cycle to evit the shrinkage...
nothing, they don't shrink super small like you are thinking, and does it really matter to you if they shrink if you are cycling or just on gear, who cares, it's not your dick.
jt
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nothing, they don't shrink super small like you are thinking, and does it really matter to you if they shrink if you are cycling or just on gear, who cares, it's not your dick.
jt
agree
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nothing, they don't shrink super small like you are thinking, and does it really matter to you if they shrink if you are cycling or just on gear, who cares, it's not your dick.
jt
I hope my girl still finds them while going down on me... :) Thanks for the tip!!!
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I hope my girl still finds them while going down on me... :) Thanks for the tip!!!
If they shrink down that small then something else is going on non gear related. Don't buy into the hysteria you hear about shrinkage...yes it happens to a degree but more than anything it's brought up by others as nothing more than a scare tactic.
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They don't shrink up too small...if anything it makes your dick bigger from much harder erections...especially on some test
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If they shrink down that small then something else is going on non gear related. Don't buy into the hysteria you hear about shrinkage...yes it happens to a degree but more than anything it's brought up by others as nothing more than a scare tactic.
very effective tough, just hearing the words make me cringe
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very effective tough, just hearing the words make me cringe
You know what's really funny to me, all the "warnings" against steroids that you hear, heart failure, liver and kidney failure, psychological impairment, etc...guys hear that and they usually shrug it off. Then they hear "Your balls will shrink" and they run for their lives. Somethings wrong with the world, lol!
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You know what's really funny to me, all the "warnings" against steroids that you hear, heart failure, liver and kidney failure, psychological impairment, etc...guys hear that and they usually shrug it off. Then they hear "Your balls will shrink" and they run for their lives. Somethings wrong with the world, lol!
;D
I think that has to do with the fact that the more serious sides you mentioned are what can happen in worst case scenario, but very very rare. However ball shrinkage, acne, gyno etc are more common and is to be expected. am i right? i'm right, right?
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;D
I think that has to do with the fact that the more serious sides you mentioned are what can happen in worst case scenario, but very very rare. However ball shrinkage, acne, gyno etc are more common and is to be expected. am i right? i'm right, right?
Ball shrinkage, to an extent yes, but it's not anything even remotely major. Doubt your girlfriend/wife would even notice.
Acne, it's hit or miss, some guys yes, some no, but for those that fall in yes I think more than not it's just a few bumps here and there on their back or shoulders...huge breakouts are not that common. Not saying it doesn't happen, it does, but on the whole those guys fall into the minority.
Gyno, if you use and use for years and years of cycling, at some point the odds are strong that you'll experience something in this category. Not saying you'll get full blown gyno but you may experience some swelling, itchiness or things like that. All of those things can be combated with AI's in most cases. It's when you ignore the problem, don't take precautions that things usually end up bad. Yes there are some guys who are going to get it no matter what they do, they fall into a very, very small minority. Now I've heard some people say, people who have good knowledge on this topic, that if you're a hardcore user for years that it's inevitable. I don't know if it's true or not, but there are a lot of these guys who go ahead and have their glands removed just to be safe.
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Ball shrinkage, to an extent yes, but it's not anything even remotely major. Doubt your girlfriend/wife would even notice.
Acne, it's hit or miss, some guys yes, some no, but for those that fall in yes I think more than not it's just a few bumps here and there on their back or shoulders...huge breakouts are not that common. Not saying it doesn't happen, it does, but on the whole those guys fall into the minority.
Gyno, if you use and use for years and years of cycling, at some point the odds are strong that you'll experience something in this category. Not saying you'll get full blown gyno but you may experience some swelling, itchiness or things like that. All of those things can be combated with AI's in most cases. It's when you ignore the problem, don't take precautions that things usually end up bad. Yes there are some guys who are going to get it no matter what they do, they fall into a very, very small minority. Now I've heard some people say, people who have good knowledge on this topic, that if you're a hardcore user for years that it's inevitable. I don't know if it's true or not, but there are a lot of these guys who go ahead and have their glands removed just to be safe.
Don't they or can't they use AI or AE year round if they're on all the time? if regular joe gets it i can understand, but when it happens to pros... you'd think they know what they're doing and try to avoid it.
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Don't they or can't they use AI or AE year round if they're on all the time? if regular joe gets it i can understand, but when it happens to pros... you'd think they know what they're doing and try to avoid it.
it is much more common sense wise to just get it cut out by good plastic surgeon and not waste all that money on AI's and anti e's if you are ON all the time. The surgery cost a couple thousand, but if you are on for a few years it would pay off in drugs you wouldn't be buying.
jt
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Don't they or can't they use AI or AE year round if they're on all the time? if regular joe gets it i can understand, but when it happens to pros... you'd think they know what they're doing and try to avoid it.
When you're on nearly all the time and running massive amounts, sometimes AI's won't be enough to help. What JT said above makes the most sense, especially in this case.
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So is that what most pros do? to save on drugs and just walk around with a ton of estrogen in them... when they use AE it's only to keep bloat/water down for contest?
but if you remove the gland won't the nipples "collapse" inwards, some have that look, it's terrible.
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So is that what most pros do? to save on drugs and just walk around with a ton of estrogen in them... when they use AE it's only to keep bloat/water down for contest?
but if you remove the gland won't the nipples "collapse" inwards, some have that look, it's terrible.
No you gotta get a good plastic surgeon, Dr Blau in white plains NY is great. There was a guy I think Dr Corbin or something that use to do it out in Cali or that area, but he isn't around anymore.
A few that have had it done, chris cormier, kevin levrone, ronnie coleman, evan cetropini, pj braun, on and on dave palumbo, derek anthony, there are a lot on that list you would never know they had it done if you look at them even closely. I wouldn't get it done if you don't have a problem, but if you start to get gyno and you plan to stay on ALL the TIME, then I would get it done instead of endlessly trying to combat it with AI and AE's.
jt
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No you gotta get a good plastic surgeon, Dr Blau in white plains NY is great. There was a guy I think Dr Corbin or something that use to do it out in Cali or that area, but he isn't around anymore.
A few that have had it done, chris cormier, kevin levrone, ronnie coleman, evan cetropini, pj braun, on and on dave palumbo, derek anthony, there are a lot on that list you would never know they had it done if you look at them even closely. I wouldn't get it done if you don't have a problem, but if you start to get gyno and you plan to stay on ALL the TIME, then I would get it done instead of endlessly trying to combat it with AI and AE's.
jt
Wow interesting stuff! you seem to be in the know. Never knew so many did it as a precaution. I though AE's were necessary for other sides too.
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Wow interesting stuff! you seem to be in the know. Never knew so many did it as a precaution. I though AE's were necessary for other sides too.
well most I listed people who have had it, I dunno if they got it as a precaution, I doubt they did. AE's yeah help for bloat, but that doesn't really matter unless you want to look good on the beach or you are going to do a competition.
jt
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2.5 years was my longest stint. I've been off for about 6 months right now.
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2.5 years was my longest stint. I've been off for about 6 months right now.
damn
how are you feeling
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I can't believe no one has mentioned any effects on the thyroid after being on trt to above normal trt doseages. TSH/ t3/t4 WILL be affected to some degree after long term use, especially when talking about supraphysiological (sp?) levels of test.
I encourage you lifers to get get some thyroid panels done.
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What do you do about "ball shrinkage"??? I have read some people do HCG midd cycle to evit the shrinkage...
All shrinkage suggests is that you are no longer producing natural testosterone (you are shut down; testicular atrophy). Now with that said you do not need to experience testicular atrophy to be shut down. HCG is important weather or not you have shrinkage as it ensures testicular health during the cycle. It has been said that running HCG while on cycle may even prevent prostate problems as your body is functioning correctly. Studies have shown that most men with prostate problems have low testosterone levels, which means they are kind of in a natural state of shut down.