Author Topic: How long have you stayed on gear... (Read 13960 times)

Ontheway · « **on:** June 30, 2009, 12:42:10 AM »

Hey guys,

We had a discussion with some friends yesterday on how long to stay on. We all agree on the rull "as long off as on"...

But some were arguing that being 35 years old you can for example stay on 250 mg of testo as long as you want, cause basically you are just replacing what you don´t have naturally anymore... You are not "destroying your body"...

Same for winstrol, that you can use it for 20 weeks constant no problem..

I have done some searches and I have also stayed on for testo for 16 straight weeks but that was the longest I ever dared too (I am around 35 and was using 250 mg/w)...

Can somebody give some insight into our discussions??

Thanks,
t

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2009, 05:54:31 AM »

The on/off rule is there for a reason, after a while your receptor's stop responding the same, plus your body just gets worn out, longest cycle for me was 4 months, then 4 month break.

dexterJ · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2009, 06:12:29 AM »

normal 16 weeks always

Spike · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2009, 09:22:23 AM »

6-8 months

switch it up, up the dosage

done

tbombz · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2009, 02:15:04 PM »

Quote from: Captain Equipoise on June 30, 2009, 05:54:31 AM

after a while your receptor's stop responding the same, plus your body just gets worn out..

no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...

the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started

dustin · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2009, 09:17:30 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on June 30, 2009, 02:15:04 PM

no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...

the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started

While androgen receptors do down regulate over time, I agree that it's overblown and an eccentric conclusion to jump to right ou of the gate. Diet and training are pivotal. I'd point my
finger at SHBG before AR receptors as well. Still far off and not as big a detriment as a stagnant diet and training.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2009, 08:03:47 AM »

Quote from: tbombz on June 30, 2009, 02:15:04 PM

no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...

the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started

Again, dude...something I've seen with many years of experience having a ton of friends that juice, as opooste theory

don't worry, one day you'll learn

g101 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:05:16 PM »

burning out receptors LOL biggest bs ever just change drug compounds if you dont feel anything anymore

MethodGNA · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:11:28 PM »

in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:42:06 AM »

Quote from: MethodGNA on July 01, 2009, 06:11:28 PM

in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder.

You're right dude, we should all stay on for 5 years straight, until we make those great gains we wanted

MethodGNA · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:47:59 AM »

Quote from: Captain Equipoise on July 02, 2009, 07:42:06 AM

You're right dude, we should all stay on for 5 years straight, until we make those great gains we wanted

see, if you didnt put those little emoticons there, i would think you were being obtuse and not sarcastic........

abc123 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2009, 02:47:03 PM »

Quote from: MethodGNA on July 01, 2009, 06:11:28 PM

in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder.

I fully agree. Once you are beyond your natural genetic max you WILL lose muscle while off and simply go up and down in weight. It only makes sense. You can't cheat mother nature.

The only exception is if you use insulin and GH while "off" AAS, but even then you can only get so big before you just have to stay on to retain your gains.

MethodGNA · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:30:40 PM »

and let me further qualify this by saying that i do not promote the 5 year on plan like cap eq mentioned.........there are logical ways to mainain hard-earned mass while in between cycles..........i would say it is realistic to spend about about half the amount of total cycle time off...........tht means if you are on a twelve week cycle.........at least try to take 6 off.........if you are working towards a specific goal, like a competition, and cannot afford to go into a catabolic state...........bridging with a low dose of test or deca works pretty well........a shot of cyp every week or two.

if you can afford it, a couple units of growth a day, is also a reasonable way to maintain gains........and when you start becoming a real student of the game........you will learn about bridging with t3, gh, slin or possibly 1gf-1

but something as simple a 30g of creatin a day will certainly have a positive effect.

wild willie · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:56:23 AM »

I have been clean for nearly 9 years.....but when I was on the gear.....I would stay on no longer than 12 weeks.......2, 12 week cycles a year.

Usually deca or durateston......one amp every 5 days......and either 50mgs of Anadrol or 20mgs of dianabol......nothing too crazy......never used any growth or clenbuterol.......defini tely no synthol.........you can grow on rather small amounts of gear. IMHO

Stavios · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2009, 09:16:10 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on June 30, 2009, 02:15:04 PM

no... you may slown down growing, but this is because of diet, not receptors...

the bigger you get the more food you need... if you started at 220lbs eating 4000 calories... now yoru 230lbs still eating 4000calories... you wonder why your not growing anymore? start eating an extra 500-1000 calories and youll start growing just like you did when you started

I actually agree with Captain E on this one.

seems my body gets a worn out look and I start losing some pumps after being on the juice for a while

maybe it's just in my head but I don't think so

Luv2Hurt · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:55:36 AM »

Quote from: MethodGNA on July 01, 2009, 06:11:28 PM

in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder.

Yes Agree very much. Sure the more moderation someone takes with the gear use the less chance for sides. Something like 2 cycles a year 500-600mg EW total per cycle for 12 weeks, will be a nice safe bet for someone concerned with sides. But they will not make any dramatic changes to their physiques as they take 2 steps forward, 1.9 steps back cycling like that.

Quote from: dustin on June 30, 2009, 09:17:30 PM

While androgen receptors do down regulate over time, I agree that it's overblown and an eccentric conclusion to jump to right ou of the gate. Diet and training are pivotal.

Well put. Same can be said about all receptors in your body including clenbuterol, have always thought and felt in my experience the whole receptor thing there is overblown, another case of someone a long time ago comimg up with a theory, similar to the steroid receptor degradation crew. There is no science to back this up, just urban myth.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2009, 07:13:10 PM »

This also comes down to your goals, if you're trying to be a top NPC competitor or Pro, then of course you will have to stay on for longer and longer and do heavier and heavier cycles as you move forward in size and down in bf%. If you're a gym rat that likes having a great physique with the assistance of steroids (like me) then you will do the smart rational thing and do two 2-3 month cycles a year and take some time off and let your HPTA recover.
One of my friends that's a pro destroyed his natural test production, he's a middle eastern guy who's been juicing hard and heavy for over 20 years (hard = fina, anadrol, suspension, halo, cheque drops) he now can no longer have kids, and his wife is not happy. He fucked himself and his future/offspring for a pro card.

Dr Loomis · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2009, 07:16:15 PM »

Quote from: MethodGNA on July 01, 2009, 06:11:28 PM

in my experience the people using the same time on/same time off rule...........end up being the same people asking why they cant break plateaus, why they lose most of their gains, and why they will never look like a bodybuilder.

Definitely true, as you grow obviously you need more gear, calories too. People expect the same gains using a certain amount of mg's, meanwhile their muscle mass has went up 10-20%.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2009, 07:35:14 PM »

Quote from: Dr Loomis on July 08, 2009, 07:16:15 PM

Definitely true, as you grow obviously you need more gear, calories too. People expect the same gains using a certain amount of mg's, meanwhile their muscle mass has went up 10-20%.

No, I for one was talking about the law of diminishing returns.

keep on believing your fantasies guys..that your lack of gains/growth on prolonged use of gear is due to diet.. LOL

Luv2Hurt · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:21:38 PM »

Quote from: Captain Equipoise on July 08, 2009, 07:35:14 PM

No, I for one was talking about the law of diminishing returns.

keep on believing your fantasies guys..that your lack of gains/growth on prolonged use of gear is due to diet.. LOL

Agree you can keep eating more and more and the only thing after a point is you are "growing" more fat. Personally i believe there is a ceiling in everyone that will determine how much muscle you can build, tons of gear or no gear it does not matter.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:46:21 PM »

Quote from: Luv2Hurt on July 08, 2009, 08:21:38 PM

Agree you can keep eating more and more and the only thing after a point is you are "growing" more fat. Personally i believe there is a ceiling in everyone that will determine how much muscle you can build, tons of gear or no gear it does not matter.

It's like red lining your car with every shift...at some point that engine's gonna go...the body needs a break every once in a while as well..you can't keep going 120% non stop

Stavios · « **Reply #21 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:25:42 PM »

Quote from: Captain Equipoise on July 08, 2009, 07:13:10 PM

This also comes down to your goals, if you're trying to be a top NPC competitor or Pro, then of course you will have to stay on for longer and longer and do heavier and heavier cycles as you move forward in size and down in bf%. If you're a gym rat that likes having a great physique with the assistance of steroids (like me) then you will do the smart rational thing and do two 2-3 month cycles a year and take some time off and let your HPTA recover.
One of my friends that's a pro destroyed his natural test production, he's a middle eastern guy who's been juicing hard and heavy for over 20 years (hard = fina, anadrol, suspension, halo, cheque drops) he now can no longer have kids, and his wife is not happy. He fucked himself and his future/offspring for a pro card.

thats my greatest fear

tbombz · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2009, 12:30:26 AM »

Quote from: Dr Loomis on July 08, 2009, 07:16:15 PM

Definitely true, as you grow obviously you need more gear, calories too. People expect the same gains using a certain amount of mg's, meanwhile their muscle mass has went up 10-20%.

exactly.

for X amount of muscle, Y amount of steroid will produce T results...as long as there is a sufficient diet.

then the person gets XX muscle, and expects Y to still produce T result. with more muscle, there will need to be more gear..in order to keep growing at the same rate.

and not only does a person need more gear to grow at the same rate, but also more food.

if your gaining 1 lb a week for the first 10 weeks and you were eating 3000 calories per day... and then you stop gainign a pound a week and now its a pound a month... thats because your no longer activating the same % of receptors and yoru caloric surplus is now smaller because of an increased BMR from increased muscle mass.

more muscle = more gear = more food.

io856 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:01:41 AM »

Quote from: Captain Equipoise on July 08, 2009, 07:13:10 PM

This also comes down to your goals, if you're trying to be a top NPC competitor or Pro, then of course you will have to stay on for longer and longer and do heavier and heavier cycles as you move forward in size and down in bf%. If you're a gym rat that likes having a great physique with the assistance of steroids (like me) then you will do the smart rational thing and do two 2-3 month cycles a year and take some time off and let your HPTA recover.
One of my friends that's a pro destroyed his natural test production, he's a middle eastern guy who's been juicing hard and heavy for over 20 years (hard = fina, anadrol, suspension, halo, cheque drops) he now can no longer have kids, and his wife is not happy. He fucked himself and his future/offspring for a pro card.

its not like he didn't know the consequences...

+ getting a pro card is quite an achievement and his wife should recognise...

Dr Loomis · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2009, 08:08:49 AM »

Quote from: tbombz on July 09, 2009, 12:30:26 AM

more muscle = more gear = more food.

Add in luv2hurt quote about 2 steps forward 1.9 back with short/time on-time off cycles and thats the bottom line.

If there are no side issues, which most people dont have btw, if your goal to get as big and muscular as you can possibly get, theres no reason to not keep going until youve reached your potential. Which is usually when your doses in relation to your response to the drugs have been maxed out, the point of diminishing returns. Everyone's different in that regard.

If you want to see what your car can do, you dont keep backing off the accelerator every time you get to 3500 rmp and start over time and time again, you never get there.

Author Topic: How long have you stayed on gear... (Read 13960 times)

dustin

Stavios

Stavios

io856