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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on August 04, 2009, 11:35:57 AM
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Interesting. . . .
Poll: Most Americans Support Dropping WWII Atom Bombs
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 12:40 PM
NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- A Quinnipiac University poll finds a majority of Americans surveyed believe dropping atomic bombs on Japan during World War II was the right thing to do.
The poll released Tuesday found 61 percent of American voters questioned believe the U.S. did the right thing. Twenty-two percent called it wrong and 16 percent were undecided.
The first bomb was dropped Aug. 6, 1945, on Hiroshima. An estimated 140,000 people were killed instantly or died within a few months. Tens of thousands more died from radiation poisoning in the years following.
Three days later, another bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, killing about 80,000 people. Japan surrendered less than a week later.
Quinnipiac surveyed 2,409 registered voters from July 27 to Aug. 3. The poll has a margin of error of 2 percentage points.
http://www.newsmax.com/us/us_hiroshima_nagasaki_poll/2009/08/04/243730.html
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Most Americans believe in an invisible man in the sky. ;D
Also to note, 80-90 percent of Americans did not want to enter World War II at its start.
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Most Americans believe in an invisible man in the sky. ;D
Also to note, 80-90 percent of Americans did not want to enter World War II at its start.
and what does either of those things have to do with the poll or its results?
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and what does either of those things have to do with the poll or its results?
Nothing.
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Most Americans believe in an invisible man in the sky. ;D
Also to note, 80-90 percent of Americans did not want to enter World War II at its start.
If its me or some enemy who already bombed my country and raped and pillaged China - Bombs Away.
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Interesting. . . .
Poll: Most Americans Support Dropping WWII Atom Bombs
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 12:40 PM
NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- A Quinnipiac University poll finds a majority of Americans surveyed believe dropping atomic bombs on Japan during World War II was the right thing to do.
The poll released Tuesday found 61 percent of American voters questioned believe the U.S. did the right thing. Twenty-two percent called it wrong and 16 percent were undecided.
The first bomb was dropped Aug. 6, 1945, on Hiroshima. An estimated 140,000 people were killed instantly or died within a few months. Tens of thousands more died from radiation poisoning in the years following.
Three days later, another bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, killing about 80,000 people. Japan surrendered less than a week later.
Quinnipiac surveyed 2,409 registered voters from July 27 to Aug. 3. The poll has a margin of error of 2 percentage points.
http://www.newsmax.com/us/us_hiroshima_nagasaki_poll/2009/08/04/243730.html
The majority of those surveyed probably weren't aware of all the circumstances surrounding those bombings, including the ongoing surrender talks. There was no reason to murder all those people, ...but ignorance & propaganda over the years have a way of influencing public opinion. In the absence of rationality, morality, or truth, you can always find a majority of people to agree with anything.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
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Most Americans believe in an invisible man in the sky. ;D
Also to note, 80-90 percent of Americans did not want to enter World War II at its start.
The American government sure found a quick way to change their minds now didn't they?
It never ceases to amaze me how easily simpletons are riled up & manipulated at whim.
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Ongoing surrender talks:
America: unconditionally surrender
Japan: no
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Ongoing surrender talks:
America: unconditionally surrender
Japan: no
America: bombs away.
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The American government sure found a quick way to change their minds now didn't they?
It never ceases to amaze me how easily simpletons are riled up & manipulated at whim.
You mean like Pearl Harbor?
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The bombs also are what staved off a WW3 between the Russians and others since we showed that we are not afraid to use it if we have to.
WW1 was supposed to be the War to End all Wars - look how that ended.
The only thing that prevented war between the russiand,USA, and others was MAD.
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it's a shame so many people failed at their jobs simultaneously in order for the attacks on pearl harbor to be successful.
luckily, all the nice ships were moved outta there right before the attacks.
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The American government sure found a quick way to change their minds now didn't they?
It never ceases to amaze me how easily simpletons are riled up & manipulated at whim.
So FDR bombed Pearl Harbor like Bush did 9/11????
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it's a shame so many people failed at their jobs simultaneously in order for the attacks on pearl harbor to be successful.
luckily, all the nice ships were moved outta there right before the attacks.
The attack really wasn't successful in retrospect. They only permanently sunk 2 ships and failed to destroy the oil reserves and Carriers. the attack ended bringing American vengeance into the war.
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So FDR bombed Pearl Harbor like Bush did 9/11????
haha brutal red herring. next, connect anti-semitism to 911 so that you can now call anyone who questions pearl harbor a nazi.
pathetic move, 33386. hey, attach it to the moon landing too.
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it's a shame so many people failed at their jobs simultaneously in order for the attacks on pearl harbor to be successful.
luckily, all the nice ships were moved outta there right before the attacks.
I'm willing to bet MOST Americans don't know that ;). And if Jay Leno's, "Jay Walking" shows anything, I willing to bet most Amercians, either don't know where Pearl Harbor is, nor when or where the bombs were dropped, nor the fact that Japan was going to surrender.
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Jag: you mean like simpletons who believe your gas caps actually work when it has been demonstrated that they dont do squat????
The liberal mindset would have allowed 100k more US soldiers to get slaughtered in an invasion on Japan. No thanks.
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I'm willing to bet MOST Americans don't know that ;). And if Jay Leno's, "Jay Walking" shows anything, I willing to bet most Amercians, either don't know where Pearl Harbor is, nor when or where the bombs were dropped, nor the fact that Japan was going to surrender.
Japan was going to surrender on their terms not ours
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haha brutal red herring. next, connect anti-semitism to 911 so that you can now call anyone who questions pearl harbor a nazi.
pathetic move, 33386. hey, attach it to the moon landing too.
240 - Jags post:
"The American government sure found a quick way to change their minds now didn't they?"
What is the implication there?
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You mean like Pearl Harbor?
I mean simpletons like 333386 :P
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I mean simpletons like 333386 :P
Funny coming from someone who touts MLM as a legitimate business model and sells snake oil to people. .
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Jag: you mean like simpletons who believe your gas caps actually work when it has been demonstrated that they dont do squat????
No I mean simpletons like you who prefer their ignorance to the truth.
Greater minds than you or I have thoroughly researched this product and the technology.
If scientist's saw fit to award it a Nobel Prize in Chemistry, who are you to question it?
The liberal mindset would have allowed 100k more US soldiers to get slaughtered in an invasion on Japan. No thanks.
Liberal mindset? So Patton & McCarthur were liberals? ok. And no, US soldiers wouldn't have gotten slaughtered. the Russians would have gotten there first. in any event, the war was ending. Those were needless massacres.
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Japan was going to surrender on their terms not ours
Who cares? The war was about to end!
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Beach, maybe you could add a poll to this thread
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Japan was going to surrender on their terms not ours
Hey, a surrender is a surrender...
They had the their terms nonetheless ;). Introduce superior cheaper cars, introduce superior electronics...They won the war...
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Who cares? The war was about to end!
Who cares? The people who fought the war and didn't want the existing war mongering militaristic oppressive expansionist Japanese government and military to stay intact and fight another day.
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Funny coming from someone who touts MLM as a legitimate business model
MLM is a legitimate business model.
and sells snake oil to people. .
I don't sell snake oil, ...but I wouldn't expect someone like you to know the difference.
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Beach, maybe you could add a poll to this thread
Great idea Stella. How do I do that?
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Hey, a surrender is a surrender...
They had the their terms nonetheless ;). Introduce superior cheaper cars, introduce superior electronics...They won the war...
No it's not, not even close. The Japanese are very industrious people, no doubt they survived and did something with their country, Because we forced them to surrender the way we wanted them to, Tojo and his war mongering cronies were eliminated from ever waging war again and a peaceful productive free nation was born from the ashes.
REad your history books, study war or simething " a surrender is a surrender..." ::) com on.
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Who cares? The people who fought the war and didn't want the existing war mongering militaristic oppressive expansionist Japanese government and military to stay intact and fight another day.
The bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki weren't about destroying the military.
The only thing Japan wanted to allow their emperor to remain emperor.
If wiping out an existing war mongering militaristic oppresive expansionist goverment and military is valid reason to brutally and needlessly massacres millions of innocent civilians in an instant, ...you might want to move to another country. Cause when comeuppance comes, ...and it always does, ...it's going to be a bitch! :o
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Looking back its easier to criticize...thats a lot of dead civilians, which makes me initially lean toward no, we must limit collateral damage in any war...however, we don't have the details and at that point there had been so much death and destruction. I suppose I could only make that decision at that time with all the info available (and after making sure the Japanese would not consider a surrender on their own knowing there would be grave consequences). Thats probably what was done, tough, tough decision.
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Jag, if a surrender was underway as you say, why didnt Japan surrender after the first bomb was dropped?
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Adonis, I am all for staying out of regional conflicts (like Vietnam and Iraq) but Hitler was destroying Europe and committing genocide bro...Americans probably supported the war once they found out more of what was going on.
I am very interested in WWII and that time period. Unfortunately, the war took way too many people (as it nearly always does) and destroyed some of Europe's great cities. As an admirer of historical architecture, that sucks!
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I don't think surrender was on its way...at least not from what I remember reading. Very good question 33386 (you didn't change your screen name to Patton yet!)
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No it's not, not even close. The Japanese are very industrious people, no doubt they survived and did something with their country, Because we forced them to surrender the way we wanted them to, Tojo and his war mongering cronies were eliminated from ever waging war again and a peaceful productive free nation was born from the ashes.
REad your history books, study war or simething " a surrender is a surrender..." ::) com on.
Agreed with what you stated. But it was the Japanese, or rather, that allowance of Japan to strike PH, that force the America hand (or get the ignorant American public behind the the war) . Churchill couldn't convince or Pres of the grave danger of the Axis powers.
Japan achieved one of the greatest naval feats in producing the biggest battleship of all time...wouldn't even fit thru the Panama canal.
But in order to defeat the US, it has been shown, as I stated introduce the goods I stated, use American arrogance against them. The American Big 3 are in trouble, something I doubt that the very conservative Honda, Toyota would be. Introduce far better electronics than the US can match. I'm willing to bet that most of the cars driven to the American of all American things baseball and NASCAR are Japanese vehicles. Nothing says owned more than, actually buying and preferring the goods of a foreign country over your own...No need for guns, a silent war can be raged. And Toyota existed and was strong prior to WWII.
And as someone else stated thru legal or illegal immigration.
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Adonis, I am all for staying out of regional conflicts (like Vietnam and Iraq) but Hitler was destroying Europe and committing genocide bro...Americans probably supported the war once they found out more of what was going on.
I am very interested in WWII and that time period. Unfortunately, the war took way too many people (as it nearly always does) and destroyed some of Europe's great cities. As an admirer of historical architecture, that sucks!
Japan also committed mass atrocities in China.
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I'm pretty happy the way WW2 ended and things turned out...only the leftist douchbags enjoy revisionist history. Hey Jag aren't u Filippino....two of my relatives liberated ur country. Ur welcome.
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The bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki weren't about destroying the military.
The only thing Japan wanted to allow their emperor to remain emperor.
If wiping out an existing war mongering militaristic oppresive expansionist goverment and military is valid reason to brutally and needlessly massacres millions of innocent civilians in an instant, ...you might want to move to another country. Cause when comeuppance comes, ...and it always does, ...it's going to be a bitch! :o
The bombings were about getting the blindly loyal (to the emperor) and fanatical Japanese government and people to surrender under our terms. One fire bombing of Tokyo killed more. The emperor remained the emperor, that was never the issue. The issue was Japan refusal to surrender unconditionally which meant the militaristic government controlled by Tojo to be dismantled.
Read your history books.
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The majority of those surveyed probably weren't aware of all the circumstances surrounding those bombings, including the ongoing surrender talks. There was no reason to murder all those people, ...but ignorance & propaganda over the years have a way of influencing public opinion. In the absence of rationality, morality, or truth, you can always find a majority of people to agree with anything.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
Ahh yes, but you, in all your GED-carrying and fraudent gas cap selling wisdom, know everything. RIGHT?
Hey, a surrender is a surrender...
They had the their terms nonetheless ;). Introduce superior cheaper cars, introduce superior electronics...They won the war...
The fuck are you talking about? A surrender isn't a surrender. See, when you're winning the war, you dictate how it goes. Why in our right mind would we have let Japan dictate the terms of their surrender when, you know, we pushed them all the way back to their mainland? Since when do the losers in war get to dictate anything?
They didn't want to unconditionally surrender. They got bombed. Pretty cut and dry.
I value the lives of the 100k+ Americans that would have died had we invaded Japan much more than the Japanese that were killed in the bombings.
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Actually reading a history book, by most on here would be a bridge to far. Ask TA...wiki is ur friend. ::)
Parker....she's a left wing loon...they have no concept of war, history or what it takes to remain free.
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Agreed with what you stated. But it was the Japanese, or rather, that allowance of Japan to strike PH, that force the America hand (or get the ignorant American public behind the the war) . Churchill couldn't convince or Pres of the grave danger of the Axis powers.
Japan achieved one of the greatest naval feats in producing the biggest battleship of all time...wouldn't even fit thru the Panama canal.
But in order to defeat the US, it has been shown, as I stated introduce the goods I stated, use American arrogance against them. The American Big 3 are in trouble, something I doubt that the very conservative Honda, Toyota would be. Introduce far better electronics than the US can match. I'm willing to bet that most of the cars driven to the American of all American things baseball and NASCAR are Japanese vehicles. Nothing says owned more than, actually buying and preferring the goods of a foreign country over your own...No need for guns, a silent war can be raged. And Toyota existed and was strong prior to WWII.
And as someone else stated thru legal or illegal immigration.
Japan produced the biggest battleship of all time in the age of carrier warfare making a near obsolete contribution to the war.
All public groups tend to be ignorant at times. American didn't want to be in the war. Japan foolishly gave them a reason and as a result, as Yamato put it, awakened a sleeping Giant. Also as a result of Japan's attack, american ended up becoming a super power. Japan's economy flourished in the post war, and they became a economic super power friendly tot he USA. ;D
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Actually reading a history book, by most on here would be a bridge to far. Ask TA...wiki is ur friend. ::)
Parker....she's a left wing loon...they have no concept of war, history or what it takes to remain free.
It's funny to see people who obviously have little knowledge on the matter and immediately take liberal passive slant on the history of war.
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Great idea Stella. How do I do that?
In the bottom right area of a page of a thread on a board you mod, there should be an "add poll" button.
Just press the one in this thread and make your poll. I'm pretty sure it will show up at the top of the first page of this thread.
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Ahh yes, but you, in all your GED-carrying and fraudent gas cap selling wisdom, know everything. RIGHT?
The fuck are you talking about? A surrender isn't a surrender. See, when you're winning the war, you dictate how it goes. Why in our right mind would we have let Japan dictate the terms of their surrender when, you know, we pushed them all the way back to their mainland? Since when do the losers in war get to dictate anything?
They didn't want to unconditionally surrender. They got bombed. Pretty cut and dry.
I value the lives of the 100k+ Americans that would have died had we invaded Japan much more than the Japanese that were killed in the bombings.
Try, 1,000,000+ dead.
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It's funny to see people who obviously have little knowledge on the matter and immediately take liberal passive slant on the history of war.
That is because they live in dream world 99% of the time where up is down and white is black.
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Warfare always hindges on a few things, such as Germany building heavy bombers or Japan building more flat tops instead of heavy cruisers and the massive battleships.
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::)
Right down party lines without even looking at who posted what I can tell.
You cant have a serious debate with Jaguar about anything that doesnt involve holding hands and pretending everyone is equal and that there are no good guys or bad guys. In her world, she gets to judge what happens years later and then she forms her opinion based on her own misinformed and nonsensical ideology. Arguing with her about things like war, law enforcement and terrorism is like trying to persuade a delusional quadripeligic into coming to terms with the fact that they wont ever become a green beret. Its obvious to the point of absurdity, but brainwashed zealots are impervious to logic and reason.
240 believes any conspiracy theory there is, no matter how ridiculous. I have my own conspiracy theory. Here it is: You are a douchebag. Actually, its not a conspiracy at all, its just reality.
As far as bombing Japan goes, of course it was horrible. Countless civilians were vaporized, not once but twice. However, it gives me greater pause to think of what might have happened if such drastic action were not taken against the Japanese; who by all accounts were complete madmen. Forget about the kamikaze missions ( which were really just suicide bombings in uniform), the rape of nanking and the other attrocities committed in China are enough to make anyones stomach turn. They were crazy, violent and by all accounts willing to do anything to win. We gave them the chance to surrender peacefully and they declined. We then bombed them into the stone age and they surrendered. Cause= Effect.
Hopefully we never have to do that again, but if its 1 million civilians in Iran or North Korea or anywhere versus America getting nuked or hit with biological weapons, I would like to think our government would do what needs to be done.
I dont think Kim Jong Il, Ahmedinijhad or Bin Laden are coming to the whitehouse for beer and weenies anytime soon.
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::)
Right down party lines without even looking at who posted what I can tell.
You cant have a serious debate with Jaguar about anything that doesnt involve holding hands and pretending everyone is equal and that there are no good guys or bad guys. In her world, she gets to judge what happens years later and then she forms her opinion based on her own misinformed and nonsensical ideology. Arguing with her about things like war, law enforcement and terrorism is like trying to persuade a delusional quadripeligic into coming to terms with the fact that they wont ever become a green beret. Its obvious to the point of absurdity, but brainwashed zealots are impervious to logic and reason.
240 believes any conspiracy theory there is, no matter how ridiculous. I have my own conspiracy theory. Here it is: You are a douchebag. Actually, its not a conspiracy at all, its just reality.
As far as bombing Japan goes, of course it was horrible. Countless civilians were vaporized, not once but twice. However, it gives me greater pause to think of what might have happened if such drastic action were not taken against the Japanese; who by all accounts were complete madmen. Forget about the kamikaze missions ( which were really just suicide bombings in uniform), the rape of nanking and the other attrocities committed in China are enough to make anyones stomach turn. They were crazy, violent and by all accounts willing to do anything to win. We gave them the chance to surrender peacefully and they declined. We then bombed them into the stone age and they surrendered. Cause= Effect.
Hopefully we never have to do that again, but if its 1 million civilians in Iran or North Korea or anywhere versus America getting nuked or hit with biological weapons, I would like to think our government would do what needs to be done.
I dont think Kim Jong Il, Ahmedinijhad or Bin Laden are coming to the whitehouse for beer and weenies anytime soon.
Great post as always. With that, this debate should be settled IMHO.
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Yes great post. I won't argue the merits of the historical debate because I think we've settled it again...as this crops up every few monhs for some reason. Its fun to see where everybody settles on on this.
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Warfare always hindges on a few things, such as Germany building heavy bombers or Japan building more flat tops instead of heavy cruisers and the massive battleships.
Or attacking Russia opening a 2 front war, letting the English escape at Dunkirk, insisting the Me-262 become a bomber, building expensive tanks and rushing them into service, Kursk, Stalingrad, Panzer divisions outside of Caen, and the list goes on and on.
Or Japan repressing and oppressing the Filipinos when there was already anit-american sentiment, starting a war with the hopes of suing for peace.
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Amazing how the fire bombing of Tokyo is forgotten.
The Little boy and Fat Man bombs were buy far, less inhumane then the fire bombing.
The notion of Japan unconditionally surrendering before this happened is a joke.
They tried that in WW1 and all it caused was WW2.
Jag you should read some Canadian history. Sir Aurthur Currie wanted to roll into Berlin.
But the rest of the alliance pussied out. Even though Canada was spear heading the greatest 100 days.
As for the bombs you can look to Canadian technology, Heavy Water and Uranium in making it happen.
It was our greatest nuclear achievement. Yet you don't hear much about it.
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Amazing how the fire bombing of Tokyo is forgotten.
The Little boy and Fat Man bombs were buy far, less inhumane then the fire bombing.
The notion of Japan unconditionally surrendering before this happened is a joke.
They tried that in WW1 and all it caused was WW2.
Jag you should read some Canadian history. Sir Aurthur Currie wanted to roll into Berlin.
But the rest of the alliance pussied out. Even though Canada was spear heading the greatest 100 days.
As for the bombs you can look to Canadian technology, Heavy Water and Uranium in making it happen.
It was our greatest nuclear achievement. Yet you don't hear much about it.
I think it was the idea that all those people died from 2 bombs. Yet even after the fire bombings and the first nuke they didn't surrender. Those Canadian divisions which i think were all volunteer were hard core. If Monty doesn't screw up on Market Garden, maybe history is different.
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Try, 1,000,000+ dead.
I was going to use a higher number, but I figured the "all-knowing seller of gas caps" would probably refute that with some estimate she made based off her own research. Either way, 100k or 1 million+, still too many American lives to not drop the bomb. ::)
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Amazing how the fire bombing of Tokyo is forgotten.
The Little boy and Fat Man bombs were buy far, less inhumane then the fire bombing.
The notion of Japan unconditionally surrendering before this happened is a joke.
They tried that in WW1 and all it caused was WW2.
Jag you should read some Canadian history. Sir Aurthur Currie wanted to roll into Berlin.
But the rest of the alliance pussied out. Even though Canada was spear heading the greatest 100 days.
As for the bombs you can look to Canadian technology, Heavy Water and Uranium in making it happen.
It was our greatest nuclear achievement. Yet you don't hear much about it.
thats right and is all that needs to be said to "a surrender is a surrender" ::) very amusing some of the idiocy from 240, parker and jag in this thread is.
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I'm okay with nuking them. Our president had far more info than we did. Did what we had to do.
My own preference is that he would have gone on tv in early 1941 and just straight up told Americans to man the fck up, we're going to help Europe because ger will be at our doorstep next. Or, at worst, made up some BS explosion that kills nobody, and blame german U-boats.
Dropping the ball on intel so that 3000 soldiers die, to rally americans, is lame.
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I'm okay with nuking them. Our president had far more info than we did. Did what we had to do.
My own preference is that he would have gone on tv in early 1941 and just straight up told Americans to man the fck up, we're going to help Europe because ger will be at our doorstep next. Or, at worst, made up some BS explosion that kills nobody, and blame german U-boats.
Dropping the ball on intel so that 3000 soldiers die, to rally americans, is lame.
Once a CT'er always a CT'er :o;D 8)
Oh yeah, and nice sarcasm in the beginning.
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Or attacking Russia opening a 2 front war, letting the English escape at Dunkirk, insisting the Me-262 become a bomber, building expensive tanks and rushing them into service, Kursk, Stalingrad, Panzer divisions outside of Caen, and the list goes on and on.
Or Japan repressing and oppressing the Filipinos when there was already anit-american sentiment, starting a war with the hopes of suing for peace.
Absolutely....but don't post too much TA will feel left out and quickly post some drivel to show us how smart he is.
Monty got alot of Paratroopers killed. Dismounts against SS Panzer's doesn't work.
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I'm okay with nuking them. Our president had far more info than we did. Did what we had to do.
My own preference is that he would have gone on tv in early 1941 and just straight up told Americans to man the fck up, we're going to help Europe because ger will be at our doorstep next. Or, at worst, made up some BS explosion that kills nobody, and blame german U-boats.
Dropping the ball on intel so that 3000 soldiers die, to rally americans, is lame.
youre a fuking idiot you know that?
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240 do u have any idea how intel worked back then. They lost an entire fleet, radar was rudimentary, and couldn't detect Carrier launched aircraft let alone several carrier battlegroups. Bud u need to disconnect the net and spend a month reading ur history, military as well as political...and get back to us.
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Absolutely....but don't post too much TA will feel left out and quickly post some drivel to show us how smart he is.
Monty got alot of Paratroopers killed. Dismounts against SS Panzer's doesn't work.
Do you think the war would have been different had hitler chosen not to invade Russia(obviously, but in what regards)?
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Without going into detail...look at the Order of Battle (stuff) that went against Russia. Now picture that hitting England. Or how about a 2 year delay..one year even. Now u might have King tigers, rockets and Jets. U might have every German Grunt armed with an StG 44 (forrunner of the AK-47). U might have a German controled N. Africa. Germany needed oil and Russia had it, so its more of a question of delay rather then never invading.
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Absolutely....but don't post too much TA will feel left out and quickly post some drivel to show us how smart he is.
Monty got alot of Paratroopers killed. Dismounts against SS Panzer's doesn't work.
The irony about Caen is that it was viewed as an almost complete failure by Canada because the Rest of the Allies moved so quickly past it.
Only later did the Allies realize how they benefited, Hitler hated Canadians.
My Great Uncle died there in Falaise Gap. Went there 2 years ago. Beautiful Country.
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Whats left of the old timers there still really appreciate America and the Allies.
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Without going into detail...look at the Order of Battle (stuff) that went against Russia. Now picture that hitting England. Or how about a 2 year delay..one year even. Now u might have King tigers, rockets and Jets. U might have every German Grunt armed with an StG 44 (forrunner of the AK-47). U might have a German controled N. Africa. Germany needed oil and Russia had it, so its more of a question of delay rather then never invading.
The end for Germany was about November 1941.
They had no more money, very little oil, there equipment was getting obsolete and the U-Boats didn't win the war of the Atlantic and the US was about to enter the War.
1940 was terrible for the allies.
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Whats left of the old timers there still really appreciate America and the Allies.
Even the young families.
Almost all of the War Graves are taken care of buy school age children for part of the year.
Met some of the nicest people there.
Once they hear a North American accent they know why you are there and appreciative of why you came.
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In the bottom right area of a page of a thread on a board you mod, there should be an "add poll" button.
Just press the one in this thread and make your poll. I'm pretty sure it will show up at the top of the first page of this thread.
Thanks Stella. Done! :)
You can all cast your votes.
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Even the young families.
Almost all of the War Graves are taken care of buy school age children for part of the year.
Met some of the nicest people there.
Once they hear a North American accent they know why you are there and appreciative of why you came.
Yup...its nice. See Jag, people actually appreciate us.
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No I mean simpletons like you who prefer their ignorance to the truth.
Greater minds than you or I have thoroughly researched this product and the technology.
If scientist's saw fit to award it a Nobel Prize in Chemistry, who are you to question it?
Really I can't find a fucking thing about these MPGcaps that gives more than a hard sell. I bet you don't even know what the "pills" are made of. They were designed for/by NASA? Really I wasn't aware rockets or the space shuttle used gasoline or diesel engines. Oh and then there are the complaints about fuel systems damage.
(http://theprofessionalanswer.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/snake_oil_1.JPG)
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9 to 1?
Wow!
Who wants to guess who the one was?
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No I mean simpletons like you who prefer their ignorance to the truth.
Greater minds than you or I have thoroughly researched this product and the technology.
If scientist's saw fit to award it a Nobel Prize in Chemistry, who are you to question it?
Liberal mindset? So Patton & McCarthur were liberals? ok. And no, US soldiers wouldn't have gotten slaughtered. the Russians would have gotten there first. in any event, the war was ending. Those were needless massacres.
Which chemist won the Nobel Prize for designing gas caps? I'd love to read about them. ::)
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This guy..he lives with jag in her make-believe world.
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So far we have 2 people who have voted either to keep Japans war mongering government in power that brutally invaded nearly every Island in the south pacific and the far east or send 1,000,000 soldiers to their death while we keep fire bombing Japanese killing more then the nukes did.
Bravo!
It must feel so surreal to live in LA LA land where the fuzzy bunnies rule.
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Yup......there are several members who live there,
Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles.
Thats were Jag lives.
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Did you see any giggle drops lying around?
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9 to 1?
Wow!
Who wants to guess who the one was?
Lol, i did it our of pure boredom
;D
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I'm pretty happy the way WW2 ended and things turned out...only the leftist douchbags enjoy revisionist history. Hey Jag aren't u Filippino....two of my relatives liberated ur country. Ur welcome.
I can be Philipino if you like. I consider it no insult. As long as I don't have to eat balut, ...I'm fine. :D
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Really I can't find a fucking thing about these MPGcaps that gives more than a hard sell. I bet you don't even know what the "pills" are made of. They were designed for/by NASA? Really I wasn't aware rockets or the space shuttle used gasoline or diesel engines. Oh and then there are the complaints about fuel systems damage.
Maybe you're looking in the wrong place?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst)
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9 to 1?
Wow!
Who wants to guess who the one was?
Twasn't me, ...I'm only now just seeing the poll.
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Maybe you're looking in the wrong place?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst)
A. Wikipedia? Really? If you would like to have an intelligent debate about this, lets do it.
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Which chemist won the Nobel Prize for designing gas caps? I'd love to read about them. ::)
Sir Geoffrey Wikinson won the Nobel prize in chemistry for his study of the technology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst)
Why you people insist on throwing completely unrelated off topic issues into a discussion is beyond me. ::)
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A. Wikipedia? Really? If you would like to have an intelligent debate about this, lets do it.
I'm done debating it. It is what it is. Millions of dollars worth of this product is happily purchased throughout the world, and I'm quite content with my ongoing residual income as a result. Customers are happy with their purchases, they're able to increase their mileage, reduce their emissions, ...and the world is a much better, cleaner place. If you doubt it, ...don't buy it. It's really very simple.
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Lol, i did it our of pure boredom
;D
hehehehe
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Wow. 4 now.
You passive house cats. ;D
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Actually reading a history book, by most on here would be a bridge to far. Ask TA...wiki is ur friend. ::)
Parker....she's a left wing loon...they have no concept of war, history or what it takes to remain free.
Actually, I have limited knowledge on military history, world and US history--that would be my strong point, and lets not get into flora and fauna.
HH6, I guess, you were directing a statement towards me, because I'm no "she" ;).
Here is a question...Had Germany and Japan won, who do you think would have won between them...and which side would have persuaded the US, to fight with them?
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240 do u have any idea how intel worked back then. They lost an entire fleet, radar was rudimentary, and couldn't detect Carrier launched aircraft let alone several carrier battlegroups. Bud u need to disconnect the net and spend a month reading ur history, military as well as political...and get back to us.
In an interesting bit of alternate universe thought,...if the US Navy had been successful in lighter than air operations.(the Zeppelins) It is thought by some that with a couple of air ships patrolling over the Pacific that the oncoming carrier force would have been sighted. This was the very reason they tried so hard to make the airships work. (Macon, Los Angeles, Akron, Shenandoah,...they all crashed ) It is known that the Japanese force had orders that if they were detected, they were to cancel the attack.
Also there is some telecommunication components to the situation. While it is true that some in Washington had strong suspicions that something was about to happen, (due to decryption) they couldn't just pick up a telephone and ring up Pearl Harbor.
1) There was no telephone cable under the pacific to Hawaii then, they would have had to use a radio link.
2) They didn't want anyone to know that Washington was decrypting the Japanese ciphers.
3) They knew that the Axis Powers could decrypt the best telephone scrambler the United States had at the time, in real time.
4) So they send the famous encrypted cable gram through Western Union which arrives while the attack is underway.
Because of this Bell Labs develop Sigsally, the first digital phone scrambler in the early months of the War. This is also why the United States military is so obsessed with communications.
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Arthur McCollum and the Hull memo. Look it up. Don`t need to say anymore than that.
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Arthur McCollum and the Hull memo. Look it up. Don`t need to say anymore than that.
The McCollum memo means little in the grand scheme of things pertaining to how the bureaucracy and decision making processes in the military are handled. It was a single memo, memos go out all the time like this. I'm not debating it's real, but it's a memo. Not policy or a set directive. One person may have read it, or 1,000 or none.
And what about the "Hull Memo"? It was a declaration of terms to the Japanese. We wanted them out of China, amongst other things (and to get China to open its markets to U.S. goods). If accepted, the U.S. would end the oil embargo. And of course the Japanese were going to say 'no', take a look at their expansion, warmongering and atrocities up to that point. Our oil embargo was crippling their ability to wage war and conquer. In hindsight, they probably should have accepted Cordell Hull's terms and saved themselves the annihilation they received.
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Amazing how the fire bombing of Tokyo is forgotten.
The Little boy and Fat Man bombs were buy far, less inhumane then the fire bombing.
The notion of Japan unconditionally surrendering before this happened is a joke.
They tried that in WW1 and all it caused was WW2.
Jag you should read some Canadian history. Sir Aurthur Currie wanted to roll into Berlin.
But the rest of the alliance pussied out. Even though Canada was spear heading the greatest 100 days.
As for the bombs you can look to Canadian technology, Heavy Water and Uranium in making it happen.
It was our greatest nuclear achievement. Yet you don't hear much about it.
Great Post
The Japanese displayed their fanaticism during every battle the U.S. military had with them. Land, air and sea. Totally devoted to the God Emperor, they were never going to surrender, never. We fired bombed them, destroyed their navy, choked off their resources,
de-housed what was left of their able population, the list goes on...yet no surrender. What makes anyone think different? Some crazed heartfelt notion or poorly understood history? The Japanese govt. had to be dismantled and the U.S. would then write them a constitution and help get the Japanese get back on their feet...which leads us to another thread for another day.
The bombs were to make sure they got the point and accepted Americas terms. The bombs also showed the Russians to stay put in Eastern Europe as well as let us and the W. Europeans to disarm and spend the capital and time on rebuilding.
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Jagilicious are you Flip or any combination of the sort? you can pm if youd rather...i keep secrets very well 8)
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Arthur McCollum and the Hull memo. Look it up. Don`t need to say anymore than that.
Planners had been expecting an attack/war from Japan since the 1920's...One military man named Billy Mitchell during his court martial in the mid 1920's famously testified on the record that he expected an attack/war with Japan...
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Planners had been expecting an attack/war from Japan since the 1920's...One military man named Billy Mitchell during his court martial in the mid 1920's famously testified on the record that he expected an attack/war with Japan...
Mitchell was way ahead of his time.
People point to the Cordell/McCullum memo's like they're some huge revelation or a smoking gun to prove their Conspiracy Theory. Those documents are neither.
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Planners had been expecting an attack/war from Japan since the 1920's...One military man named Billy Mitchell during his court martial in the mid 1920's famously testified on the record that he expected an attack/war with Japan...
Change Expecting to Inviting and Provoking and you will be on the correct path. With around 90 percent of the country not wanting a war, FDR purposely provoked the Japanese and knew through McCollum and other agents that the strike would occur where it did. A memo was sent a year ago before Pearl Harbor by the Japanese Ambassador to the Whitehouse stating that the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor as a Central and main target.
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Yet an attack on Pearl Harbor was thought to be a reach by Japanese forces. An easier attack on the Aluetians was looked at as a possibility. This memo is not a smoking gun but continues to mold a picture of what happened. The facts that Japan attacked, would have been good enough to get us into a war. Sinking our fleet and killing 3000 plus sailors, Marines and airmen was not what Roosevelt had in mind.
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Change Expecting to Inviting and Provoking and you will be on the correct path. With around 90 percent of the country not wanting a war, FDR purposely provoked the Japanese and knew through McCollum and other agents that the strike would occur where it did. A memo was sent a year ago before Pearl Harbor by the Japanese Ambassador to the Whitehouse stating that the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor as a Central and main target.
Are the memo's official policy statements?
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No...its a smart guy expounding a theory or plan to see what play it gets at higher circles. We do this alot now. Back then a memo from an 04 carries about as much weight as it does now.....
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Yet an attack on Pearl Harbor was thought to be a reach by Japanese forces. An easier attack on the Aluetians was looked at as a possibility. This memo is not a smoking gun but continues to mold a picture of what happened. The facts that Japan attacked, would have been good enough to get us into a war. Sinking our fleet and killing 3000 plus sailors, Marines and airmen was not what Roosevelt had in mind.
Exactly.
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More to the point...so what. Things worked out as they did and I'm pretty happy about it.
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No...its a smart guy expounding a theory or plan to see what play it gets at higher circles. We do this alot now. Back then a memo from an 04 carries about as much weight as it does now.....
Roosevelt kept McCollum pretty close to his side. McCollum was born in Japan in 1898 and studied there after the Naval Academy for three years where his concentration was Culture and Language of the Orient. After serving on nearly every single type of ship and commanding some as well, he was the head of the Far East section of the Office of Naval Intelligence and assistant attatche to the American Embassy in Tokyo.
He was also Fleet Intelligence Officer on the Staff of Commander In Chief, US Fleet. (a direct line to the President).
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Sir Geoffrey Wikinson won the Nobel prize in chemistry for his study of the technology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson%27s_catalyst)
Why you people insist on throwing completely unrelated off topic issues into a discussion is beyond me. ::)
Haha, so you're trying to piggy back your product on the research of a Nobel Chemist? Fuck off out of here with your snake oil shit, clown. ::)
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Haha, so you're trying to piggy back your product on the research of a Nobel Chemist? Fuck off out of here with your snake oil shit, clown. ::)
Her & TA make an amazing pair:
Military historians
Law Enforcement experts
Legal experts
Chemistry experts
Economic geniuses
Nuclear & Environmental scientists
Is there anything these two cant do????
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Her & TA make an amazing pair:
Military historians
Law Enforcement experts
Legal experts
Chemistry experts
Economic geniuses
Nuclear & Environmental scientists
Is there anything these two cant do????
Add Experienced Chef to that list!
I just baked a Cafe Au Lait pie to go along with Dahi Achar Gosht (Lamb with Pickled Mangoes and Yogurt) and some Pancakes with Grade B Maple Syrup. 8)
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Add Experienced Chef to that list!
I just baked a Cafe Au Lait pie to go along with Gahi Achar Gosht (Lamb with Pickled Mangoes and Yogurt) and some Pancakes with Grade B Maple Syrup. 8)
Pancakes w/syrup and lamb?
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Add Experienced Chef to that list!
I just baked a Cafe Au Lait pie to go along with Gahi Achar Gosht (Lamb with Pickled Mangoes and Yogurt) and some Pancakes with Grade B Maple Syrup. 8)
I guess you are truly a Renescience man????
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Pancakes w/syrup and lamb?
Not all at once.
Pancakes were for this morning. I flavored them with Lemon Oil and Almond Extract along with Some shaved Ginger.
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Pancakes w/syrup and lamb?
that sounds good as shit right now
ive been eating cereal all day
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I guess you are truly a Renescience man????
Well I am still learning in all areas, thats for sure. I will be my whole life. If I am ever in your area, I would like to cook for you actually.
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Well I am still learning in all areas, thats for sure. I will be my whole life. If I am ever in your area, I would like to cook for you actually.
Why? You want to poison me like 3/4 of the people around here would pay you to do?
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that sounds good as shit right now
ive been eating cereal all day
Nothing wrong with cereal at all. What kind do you have? I bet I can put something magnificent together using just simple things you already have in your cupboards.
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Why? You want to poison me like 3/4 of the people around here would pay you to do?
Food transcends all differences.
For you, I`d make Senator Bean Soup, the traditional meal for Congress. I haven`t made it yet, but apparently both Republicans and Democrats eat it by the gallon.
I also have Senator Mitch McConnell`s recipe for Kentucky Burgoo. He may not know much in congress, but he does seem to have a firm handle on Burgoo.
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Food transcends all differences.
For you, I`d make Senator Bean Soup, the traditional meal for Congress. I haven`t made it yet, but apparently both Republicans and Democrats eat it by the gallon.
I also have Senator Mitch McConnell`s recipe for Kentucky Burgoo. He may not know much in congress, but he does seem to have a firm handle on Burgoo.
A Burger and Fries will do.
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A Burger and Fries will do.
Can`t go wrong there at all.
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Can`t go wrong there at all.
Fine. A Steak will do. But you have to eat first because I am not sure this is not a rouse to poison me. I have plenty of enemies around here who would love it if you did me in.
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Not all at once.
Pancakes were for this morning. I flavored them with Lemon Oil and Almond Extract along with Some shaved Ginger.
Nice.
Try peaches and ricotta sometime.
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Nothing wrong with cereal at all. What kind do you have? I bet I can put something magnificent together using just simple things you already have in your cupboards.
What can you do w/BooBerry? :D
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Roosevelt kept McCollum pretty close to his side. McCollum was born in Japan in 1898 and studied there after the Naval Academy for three years where his concentration was Culture and Language of the Orient. After serving on nearly every single type of ship and commanding some as well, he was the head of the Far East section of the Office of Naval Intelligence and assistant attatche to the American Embassy in Tokyo.
He was also Fleet Intelligence Officer on the Staff of Commander In Chief, US Fleet. (a direct line to the President).
All of which u got from wiki..I read the same stuff. He ran his memo through two of President Roosevelts' military aides and it got some play....ok. At this point who cares.
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All of which u got from wiki..I read the same stuff. He ran his memo through two of President Roosevelts' military aides and it got some play....ok. At this point who cares.
Not much matters. Japan attack on Pearl Harbor brought America into the war and it was a monster miscalculation on Japan's part highlighting their arrogance and racial bias. We did need to get into the war and Japan made it easy for us.