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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on August 13, 2009, 03:42:22 PM
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2 Dead, 2 Injured: Harlem Biz Owner Shoots Suspected Robbers
Photograph by yojimbot on Flickr
Two men are dead after a Harlem business owner fired at four people trying to rob his store. City Room reports that the owner used a shotgun when the four "tried to rob his restaurant-supply business... The business, the Kaplan Brothers Blue Flame Corporation, at 523 West 125th Street, near Amsterdam Avenue, provides parts and repairs for commercial gas and electric ranges. It was not immediately known whether the robbers were armed, or whether the business owner had a license for the shotgun." The owner is reportedly Charles Augusto Jr., who is 72.
The other two men are injured and at the hospital. According to WCBS 2 (reporter Lou Young happened to be near there and was one of 911 callers), "A man standing outside the business was seen shouting at one of the dead bodies lying on the sidewalk in front of the shop, 'You're dead! You're dead!' He told police the suspects put a gun to his head. A second dead body rested in the street near a car that had visible blood stains on it. Another man was down across the street with his pants around his ankles, perhaps falling down as he ran away. His face was covered in blood, however he was still breathing."
A witness told WABC 7, "An officer had lifted the sheet up off the body and I happened to see the face from a distance. I don't know who he is, but I could tell he was young." And the incident occurred next to a day care center—children were ferried through the crime scene by their teachers.
Update: CityRoom now says, "The four would-be robbers entered the business and announced that they were robbing it. One of them took out a 9-mm pistol and started to to pistol-whip a 33-year old employee inside the store. The owner then took out a shotgun and opened fire, striking the four men."
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When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.
Thank God for the Second Amendment!
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Awesome! Guy should get a civic award and keys to the city!
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Awesome! Guy should get a civic award and keys to the city!
I like Bloomberg, but on this issue he is dead wrong.
This guy is a hero than thank God for the armed citizen!
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They really are good for home defense too.
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I like Bloomberg, but on this issue he is dead wrong.
This guy is a hero than thank God for the armed citizen!
what if he was an illegal?
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They really are good for home defense too.
I love this quote:
"Another man was down across the street with his pants around his ankles, perhaps falling down as he ran away. His face was covered in blood, however he was still breathing."
You know exactly what that means.
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what if he was an illegal?
If it was the store owner - how did he get the firearm and whose SS # did he steal?
If the perps were all illegals?? - Great job by the store owner.
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I love this quote:
"Another man was down across the street with his pants around his ankles, perhaps falling down as he ran away. His face was covered in blood, however he was still breathing."
You know exactly what that means.
It means he shot a fucktard too stupid to wear clothes properly.
No more, no less.
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It means he shot a fucktard too stupid to wear clothes properly.
No more, no less.
By IKIMULISA LIVINGSTON, JOHN DOYLE and LUKAS I. ALPERT
hide topics Last updated: 7:31 pm
August 13, 2009
Posted: 5:51 pm
August 13, 2009
A 72-year-old Harlem business owner turned Bernie Goetz on four would-be robbers this afternoon, pulling a pump-action shot gun from beneath his desk and opening fire, killing two and wounding the others, cops said.
The four men barged into Kaplan Bros. Blue Flame Corp. -- a restaurant supply company at 523 W. 125th St. -- around 3 p.m. and one of them pulled out a handgun and began pistol whipping an employee.
That prompted the owner to pull out the 12-gauge shotgun and fire three shots, striking all four men, cops said. The four robbers ran, but two collapsed to the ground just outside the store. One fell right in the doorway and was declared dead at the scene. The other was rushed to the hospital where he died.
The other two ran but were picked up nearby and hospitalized.
Public records identified the owner of the business and the building it is in as Charles Augusto Jr., 72, of Irvington, NY.
Witnesses described a wild scene as the four men came running out of the business, pursued by one of Augusto's angry employees.
"I heard two blasts," said Vernon McKenzie who rents an apartment in the building from Augusto. "I came down and saw one of the guys who works there over a man in the doorway screaming, 'You're dead! You're dead!"
"He's been robbed before and I guess he was prepared," McKenzie said. "Those dudes ran into some real tough stuff today."
Several witnesses said the employee than dragged the man into the middle of the pavement where he died.
"The man pulled him from inside the store," said a woman who watched from her window across the street. "His face had blood all over it."
The man's body remained on the sidewalk covered by a sheet for several hours - his right shoe lying next to his head - as police investigated the crime scene.
Augusto and his employees were being questioned at the 26 Precinct late yesterday and no charges were immediately filed. It was unclear if Augusto was licensed to carry the gun.
A woman who answered the phone at Augusto's home late yesterday only said, "Thank you, but I have no comment" before hanging up.
Stefany Blyn, 56, who has lived above the business for 25 years described Augusto - who she said was known as Gus -- as "very laid back, very relaxed."
"Gus has been robbed a few times over the years. There have been attempts made before - some successful," she said. "He wasn't afraid of the neighborhood."
Augusto has run the business in Harlem for as long as most residents could remember. Records show that it first opened in 1920, selling professional gas ranges to commercial kitchens and home owners alike.
Additional reporting by Jamie Schram
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Damn! This sounds like Gran Turino!
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Damn good shooting!
I agree that a shotgun is the best defensive weapon in most situations. If you're stationary, the shotgun is hands down the best choice. Keep buckshot loaded in the gun and get a shell holder for the stock to keep slugs and you're set for any situation. :)
For advancing on someone, I'd still take my Glock in most indoor situations, although that would make it an offensive weapon. A shotgun would be relatively easy to take away in the right situation where you can tuck a Glock in close to your body as you advance and make it impossible to get without taking a few to the chest in the process.
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Damn good shooting!
I agree that a shotgun is the best defensive weapon in most situations. If you're stationary, the shotgun is hands down the best choice. Keep buckshot loaded in the gun and get a shell holder for the stock to keep slugs and you're set for any situation. :)
For advancing on someone, I'd still take my Glock in most indoor situations, although that would make it an offensive weapon. A shotgun would be relatively easy to take away in the right situation where you can tuck a Glock in close to your body as you advance and make it impossible to get without taking a few to the chest in the process.
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Thieves try taking away the man's livelihood and he's probably going to die broke from legal fees.
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Thieves try taking away the man's livelihood and he's probably going to die broke from legal fees.
I will help out pro bono if need be. This man is a hero. I hope the punks around my hood take note. Some jerkoff in the Bronx tries that shit in my office he will meet the same fate courtesy of a 12 guage.
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I think what happened was great/tragic
But how many years do you think this guy will spend behind bars?
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I will help out pro bono if need be. This man is a hero. I hope the punks around my hood take note. Some jerkoff in the Bronx tries that shit in my office he will meet the same fate courtesy of a 12 guage.
just curious, whats your address, hmm?
;D
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Running shoes are your frirst option :)
Aside from that, nothing beats a pistol grip mossberg in most CQB situations.
AR-15 would be a nice second choice, but you don't wnt to kill your neighbors with the bullets punching thru the bad guys.
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Awesome!!! ;D
Good Guy: 4
Shitbags: 0
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just curious, whats your address, hmm?
;D
Corner of Neireid Ave. & Webster Ave., Bronx, N.Y.
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Corner of Neireid Ave. & Webster Ave., Bronx, N.Y.
Going to the city in Oct for a wedding.
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Going to the city in Oct for a wedding.
Nice. October is a wierd month. the beginning is always warm and by the end it gets cold.
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Nice. October is a wierd month. the beginning is always warm and by the end it gets cold.
HARLEM STORE OWNER: I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SHOOT THUGS
Read Comments Leave a Comment By MATT NESTEL, IKIMULISA LIVINGSTON, JOHN DOYLE and LUKAS I. ALPERT
August 14, 2009
Charles Augusto, Jr., bought a gun 20 years ago after he was first robbed, but never discharged it until yesterday, when four would-be robbers entered his Harlem restaurant-supply company yesterday afternoon, pulled a gun on him and demanded money.
"I was hoping I could have talked them out of it. I'm sorry they're dead but they didn't give me any other choice," Augusto said.
After the Westchester Co. resident made it clear there was no money in the Kaplan Bros. Blue Flame Corp. store-- they hadn't even had any customers in the store that day -- the bandits turned their attention to his 33-year-old assistant, JB, and starting pistol-whipping him and demanding money.
That prompted Augusto to pull the 12-gauge, pump-action shotgun and fire three times, cops said. The blasts struck all four men, two of them in the back.
One of the perps, James Morgan, 29, fell in the doorway and died outside the building, with a gun near his body. Raylin Footman, 21, who had prior arrests for robbery and weapons charges, collapsed across the street, and later died at St. Luke's Hospital.
Two other suspects, Bernard Witherspoon, 21, and Shamel McCloud, 21, were caught a few blocks away.
Augusto said he told the thugs, "No one even came in here today. Take your gun, put it in your pocket and go home."
"I could see it in the guy's eyes that he wanted to go home. I just had a feeling he wanted to forget about it. It's a damn shame."
Augusto, who hasn't been charged in the shootings, retold the harrowing tale this morning.
"I was sitting at the desk there. (Feet up) And there was a ruckus up front. There were men upfront. And a guy standing with a pistol pointed at me screaming 'where's the money?, where's the money?' I told him there was no money. I told him to put away the gun. This doesn't make sense. Put down the gun there's no money. Go home and we'll forget about it'
The gunman instead left Augusto to help the other thugs beat up JB, who has worked for Augusto for 19 years. They demanded the money from his pockets as they beat him with the gun.
"You lost your life for $4.35 cents. That's all I had on me. There was no money here," JB, who was shot in the face 16 years ago, said.
Left alone in the back of the store, Augusto went for his gun, which had been hidden for 20 years.
"I didn't have it in my hand. I wasn't even going to go looking for it. I had to wait till they moved. That's when they made a mistake. They got out of my sight and that's when I could grab the gun. Some kids are dead because of it."
This morning, JB said, "How you gonna talk down a guy with a gun in my face. I hit him. That's all I had on me. I stuck up for my life. To make sure this wasn't going to happen to me. I have a 13-year-old."
Augusto said, "What's the worst they could do, shoot me? I guess so. I'm not going to lay down and die. I'm just not going to. It wasn't my choice. It was their choice."
"I did what I had to do. I didn't want to. I'm sad that there're mothers and fathers who lost a son today."
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Wow. What a story.
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Awsome story.....
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parents should tell this story at bedtime instead of the 3 little pigs.
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parents should tell this story at bedtime instead of the 3 little pigs.
This story is getting a ton of local air play.
The dems are silent on it and the talk radio hosts are all over it.
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This story is getting a ton of local air play.
The dems are silent on it and the talk radio hosts are all over it.
The dems are silent? ??? Most current events stories don't elicit responses along political lines unless they are overtly political. Pretty much everyone in New York feels that scum got what they deserved.
It's ridiculous to try to politicize this story, but if you were absolutely determined to do so, this story would serve as a better example of why there should be gun control laws. I don't have strong feelings for or against gun control and I don't really follow the issue much, but the most prominent gun control measures I'm aware of involve limiting the amount of guns one customer can buy at a time and limiting access to guns to known criminals. Considering the thugs involved had criminal records and more than likely purchased their guns on the black market, and the store owner had a registered shotgun, how does this case show that gun regulations are bad?
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The dems are silent? ??? Most current events stories don't elicit responses along political lines unless they are overtly political. Pretty much everyone in New York feels that scum got what they deserved.
It's ridiculous to try to politicize this story, but if you were absolutely determined to do so, this story would serve as a better example of why there should be gun control laws. I don't have strong feelings for or against gun control and I don't really follow the issue much, but the most prominent gun control measures I'm aware of involve limiting the amount of guns one customer can buy at a time and limiting access to guns to known criminals. Considering the thugs involved had criminal records and more than likely purchased their guns on the black market, and the store owner had a registered shotgun, how does this case show that gun regulations are bad?
They should congratulate the man for taking these thugs off the streets and saving the lives of himself and co=workers.
However Schumer, Bloomberg, Patterson et al are all rabid anti-gun fanatics. Gillibrand is a complete waste of space and turned her back on the 2nd amendment.
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By MATTHEW NESTEL, JAMIE SCHRAM and LUKAS I. ALPERT
COURAGE: Charles Augusto Jr., yesterday at his Harlem shop, made good on the warning above him. "They had a chance to leave," he said.
Posted: 3:32 am
August 15, 2009
CONTINUED
"I had to shoot them. It was a tough thing to do," he said. "I have to live with that. I'm sad that there are mothers and fathers who lost sons."
But Augusto's beaten employee -- who would only give his name as J.B. -- had little sympathy.
"S- - - went real bad for them, not for me," he said. "I'm breathing. They dead."
The 35-year-old had nothing but praise for his boss.
"I know Gus is a good dude. He's looked out for me since I was 19," he said. "He saved my life, man."
Augusto said: "I don't feel like a hero. I would have felt like a hero if I'd talked that kid down and into going home."
It wasn't the first time lowlifes had tried to rob Augusto. After a robbery 20 years ago, he bought the pump-action shotgun and stuck it under his desk. Until Thursday, he'd never had to use it.
"I hadn't touched it all this time. I didn't even know if it would work," he said. "I never fired it all this time."
But he left it loaded, just in case.
"If every single citizen were allowed to hold a gun, there would be less carjackings and robberies," he said.
Augusto's gun was properly registered with police, and he does not face any charges, authorities said.
The Coast Guard vet, who was born in Yonkers and lives with his wife of 48 years in Irvington, Westchester County, said he had been selling commercial kitchen equipment for nearly 50 years and had no intention of quitting.
"What's the worst they could do? Shoot me? I guess so. I'm not going to lay down and die. I'm just not going to," he said.
J.B. said his boss likes to do things "the old-fashioned way."
"Of course, he's going to keep open," he said.
Augusto and his employees tried to get back to business as usual yesterday, although it wasn't easy. When a woman came to place a candle outside the shop, J.B. angrily kicked it across the pavement.
"Who's this for?" he demanded of the startled woman. "For the guy who died? F- - - him!"
Additional reporting by Lachlan Cartwright, Shari Logan and Larry Celona
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(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u68/bamahead/obama-rip-constitution.jpg)
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(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/JohnnyK3886/1240471687524.gif)
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They should congratulate the man for taking these thugs off the streets and saving the lives of himself and co=workers.
However Schumer, Bloomberg, Patterson et al are all rabid anti-gun fanatics. Gillibrand is a complete waste of space and turned her back on the 2nd amendment.
I've never heard of Patterson, Schumer or Bloomberg supporting a complete ban on handguns.
Do you believe that this story is an example of why there should be fewer gun control regulations?
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This shows that there are enough regulations and that the idiots that support "gun control" are just that, idiots. The laws on the books workl for the most part. Limiting weapons makes it harder for law abiding citizens to have guns, criminals will always have em. While in the military, I don't consider myself a gun nut. I have several hand-guns and a shotgun. They are all used for home defense. I barely shoot unless its for work, which I enjoy immensly. This guy had every right to do what he did. This isn't about guns for libs, is the aborance of violence or taking a life. I have no problem with either, especially when the life and property of my family is envolved. Recently some asshate has taken to shooting bb's at my dogs while they are inside our walled backyard. They bark, thats what dogs do. Apparently the mexicans don't like barking dogs. My wife has begun taking our Benelli out when she lets them out in the late afternoon. She's more pissed off then I've ever seen her. This appears to have stopped the problem. People suck, therefore guns are neccesary. Luckily Texas has very liberal gun laws. She'll be moving soon to a more civilized part of the country, prior to my deployment to Iraq. Guns are a major neccessity where I live.
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This shows that there are enough regulations and that the idiots that support "gun control" are just that, idiots. The laws on the books workl for the most part. Limiting weapons makes it harder for law abiding citizens to have guns, criminals will always have em. While in the military, I don't consider myself a gun nut. I have several hand-guns and a shotgun. They are all used for home defense. I barely shoot unless its for work, which I enjoy immensly. This guy had every right to do what he did. This isn't about guns for libs, is the aborance of violence or taking a life. I have no problem with either, especially when the life and property of my family is envolved. Recently some asshate has taken to shooting bb's at my dogs while they are inside our walled backyard. They bark, thats what dogs do. Apparently the mexicans don't like barking dogs. My wife has begun taking our Benelli out when she lets them out in the late afternoon. She's more pissed off then I've ever seen her. This appears to have stopped the problem. People suck, therefore guns are neccesary. Luckily Texas has very liberal gun laws. She'll be moving soon to a more civilized part of the country, prior to my deployment to Iraq. Guns are a major neccessity where I live.
Yes, due to the large amount of lowlifes, Gangstas, and third-world criminals that now reside in many areas in the US, guns are definitely a neccesity for defense. I don't see the situation improving so i would really dread it, if laws will be passed that outlaw guns.
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Its much to ingrained in our culture and it crosses party lines. Mnay people like guns for guns, others hunt, and still others use them as tools for self/home defense. They aren't going away as much as the lefties want them to.
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This shows that there are enough regulations and that the idiots that support "gun control" are just that, idiots.
This story in no way shows that. I guess your failing comes in the fact that you are projecting so much when you read this story. You read the story with such a blind opposition to gun control measures that you wrongly believe they are intended to keep guns out of the hands of people like the shop owner. That's not the case.
This is exactly the type of case that shows why there should be regulations.
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I think it's naive to believe that any sort of regulations will keep guns out of the hands of thugs and gangstas. It's not as if they're going to the local guns store and buying their weapons. The machine guns that many of them have are not purchased through legal channels.
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This story in no way shows that. I guess your failing comes in the fact that you are projecting so much when you read this story. You read the story with such a blind opposition to gun control measures that you wrongly believe they are intended to keep guns out of the hands of people like the shop owner. That's not the case.
This is exactly the type of case that shows why there should be regulations.
Like what? There will be alot of dead law abiding citizens should they ever try and take our guns. At this point the cops won't enforce it nor will the ATF be able to do anything about it either. Remember Ruby Ridge, that worked out well for everrybody invloved. ::). Gun control measures in DC are doing exactly that, the shitbags have em, law abiding citizens don't. There are'nt Repubs going on record saying people shouldn't have guns, its all u libs.
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I think it's naive to believe that any sort of regulations will keep guns out of the hands of thugs and gangstas. It's not as if they're going to the local guns store and buying their weapons. The machine guns that many of them have are not purchased through legal channels.
Likewise, it's wreckless not to even attempt to try. It's like saying people are going to rob banks anyway, so there's no point in having any type of security there at all.
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...you wrongly believe they are intended to keep guns out of the hands of people like the shop owner. That's not the case.
You are just wrong. The Anti-Gun crowd wants to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens just as much as the criminals. This is from the big case that the SC made a decisive ruling about:
"In February 2003, the six residents of Washington, D.C. filed a lawsuit in the District Court for the District of Columbia, challenging the constitutionality of provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975, a local law (part of the District of Columbia Code) enacted pursuant to District of Columbia home rule. This law restricted residents from owning handguns, excluding those grandfathered in by registration prior to 1975 and those possessed by active and retired law enforcement officers. The law also required that all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock."[5] The District Court dismissed the lawsuit."
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I like the fact that they got shot. Hopefully it'll make some other scum bags think twice. I carry and don't have an issue shooting if I have to draw my weapon.
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This story in no way shows that. I guess your failing comes in the fact that you are projecting so much when you read this story. You read the story with such a blind opposition to gun control measures that you wrongly believe they are intended to keep guns out of the hands of people like the shop owner. That's not the case.
This is exactly the type of case that shows why there should be regulations.
WTF are you talking about???? NYC already has a ban on handguns and these punks had an illegal 9mm. The regulations in place did not work.
The 2nd amendment needs to be promoted, exercised, and cherished.
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parents should tell this story at bedtime instead of the 3 little pigs.
hahahah yes. very true. im more of a dem and hate republicans but i also love guns and im all for stuff like this. this guy did the right thing and hes right- it was their choice, not his.
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You are just wrong. The Anti-Gun crowd wants to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens just as much as the criminals. This is from the big case that the SC made a decisive ruling about:
Most people aren't anti-gun. Even people who are for gun control are mostly about regulations and restrictions. DC gun ban goes back like 30 years, when crack and crime were epidemics.
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WTF are you talking about???? NYC already has a ban on handguns and these punks had an illegal 9mm. The regulations in place did not work.
The 2nd amendment needs to be promoted, exercised, and cherished.
??? There is no handgun ban in the city.
No regulation works 100% all the time, but regulations do help. Law abiding citizens can apply for licenses in NYC.
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Most people aren't anti-gun. Even people who are for gun control are mostly about regulations and restrictions. DC gun ban goes back like 30 years, when crack and crime were epidemics.
I never said most people were anti-gun - try and keep up, Al.
And there are tons of regulations and restrictions currently on the books. Nowadays, gun control is about bans and the interpretation of the 2nd amendment (which the SC seems to have put to a rest -- at least for the time being).
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I never said most people were anti-gun - try and keep up, Al.
And there are tons of regulations and restrictions currently on the books. Nowadays, gun control is about bans and the interpretation of the 2nd amendment (which the SC seems to have put to a rest -- at least for the time being).
You are the one who brought up the "anti-gun crowd". Being for gun control and being anti-gun aren't the same thing.
And, no, most gun control efforts these days AREN"T about bans. Outright bans are the least popular aspect of the gun control movement.
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I don't know what ur smoking but the vaaast majority of gun control folks are anti-gun. I'd love to find a guy who's for gun control and has a full gun closet. We have plenty of laws that, if enforced, do the job.
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I don't know what ur smoking but the vaaast majority of gun control folks are anti-gun. I'd love to find a guy who's for gun control and has a full gun closet. We have plenty of laws that, if enforced, do the job.
Most gun control advocates are only for restrictions, not outright bans.
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Most gun control advocates are only for restrictions, not outright bans.
Suppose we'll just have to disagree. :'(
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??? There is no handgun ban in the city.
No regulation works 100% all the time, but regulations do help. Law abiding citizens can apply for licenses in NYC.
I live in NYC and it is almost impossible to get a handgun license. I have a full carry in NYS and it clearly states that it is not valid on NYC.
For long guns you need to pay a $400 permit fee and go through a ton os crap and register each long arm.
Additionally, the State Senate is trying to pass regulations regarding ammo that effectively make handgun ownership near impossible,. They want registered ammo, microstamping, etc.