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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on September 05, 2009, 10:55:45 AM
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Angry Parents Suing California Schools Over Mandatory Gay-Friendly Classes
Thursday, September 03, 2009
FOX News
Dion Evans addresses a meeting in California where parents spoke out about a mandatory class on gay families that will be taught to all elementary school students in the Alameda school district.
A lawsuit in California that was filed last month by angry parents who object to a gay-friendly curriculum they say is being foisted on kindergartners could well become a test case for schools around the country.
Parents in the Alameda Unified School District were refused the right to excuse their kids from classes that would teach all kids in the district's elementary schools about gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender alternative families.
The parents say they are concerned about "indoctrination" in the schools, but administrators say the course is needed to protect against sexual discrimination — and that the lessons are protected by laws in California and 10 other states.
Those states, which stretch from Washington to Maine, will now be eyeing the court results in California in a case that warring sides say pits parents' rights against a schools' responsibilities.
To learn more about controversial teachings in school tune in to a FOX News Reporting special, "Do You Know What Textbooks Your Children Are Really Reading?" which premieres Friday, Sept. 4 at 9 p.m. EDT. Click here for a preview.
The contested California curriculum includes an annual 45-minute LGBT lesson taught to kids from kindergarten through the fifth grade. The kindergartners will focus on the harms of teasing, while the fifth graders will study sexual orientation stereotypes.
The move toward the new classes began two years ago, when teachers noticed that even kindergarten students were using derogatory words about sexuality, such as "fag."
FULL COVERAGE: Textbook Bias
The FOX News Reporting unit was present at a debate in the school district in May when angry parents pushed back against the controversial lessons, capturing over 10 hours of heated dispute, which saw parents shouting back and forth across the aisle.
• Click here to see video from the debate.
Some parents like Carrie Brash said the curriculum is necessary to combat bigotry that was already rearing its head among even young children, who were bullying her daughter in school.
Brash said her daughter had to endure taunting chants of "Lesbian, lesbian, your mom's a lesbian," from kids in school.
But other parents said the new curriculum ignores other kids who have been targeted for abuse.
"My child has been the product of bullying because she's black," said Dion Evans, who noted that students have "never viewed a single video in the classroom" that deals with racism.
But Evans said he wasn't expecting the district to take care of what he called a parent's duties in educating his daughter, as the school is "already (too) strapped for cash to incorporate these changes."
"I know how to successfully parent, educate, and instill value and self-worth in my child," he said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,546280,00.html?test=latestnews
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They should just have a class about bigotry of all kinds instead of just one kind
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They should just have a class about bigotry of all kinds instead of just one kind
How many Christians do you think would flunk a class like that?
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How many Christians do you think would flunk a class like that?
LOL yes b/c the left is so tolerant ::)
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Good it's not the schools place to decide what kids think is and isn't moral.
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Good it's not the schools place to decide what kids think is and isn't moral.
how about what is legal and illegal?
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Since when has thinking homosexuality is immoral become illegal?
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Since when has thinking homosexuality is immoral become illegal?
the class wouldn't be about thinking it would be about actions
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the class wouldn't be about thinking it would be about actions
Maye you think it takes a village to raise a child, but IMHO it is the job of the parents.
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Maye you think it takes a village to raise a child, but IMHO it is the job of the parents.
what's taking a village got to do with it
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what's taking a village got to do with it
seriously, youve got to be drinking right now please tell me youre drinking right now
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seriously, youve got to be drinking right now please tell me youre drinking right now
what does having a class about discrimination have to do with a village, taking a village etc..
just explain it and maybe I'll see what you mean
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what does having a class about discrimination have to do with a village, taking a village etc..
just explain it and maybe I'll see what you mean
do you understand the saying "it takes a village"?
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Maye you think it takes a village to raise a child, but IMHO it is the job of the parents.
Unfortunately too many parents all too often too a poor job of raising their children.
I don't know if I am for this teaching in schools because i don't know the exact details of what's being taught. I would think what's being taught isn't "promoting a gay lifestyle" but instead teaching tolerance and respect for individual choices.
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Unfortunately too many parents all too often too a poor job of raising their children.
I don't know if I am for this teaching in schools because i don't know the exact details of what's being taught. I would think what's being taught isn't "promoting a gay lifestyle" but instead teaching tolerance and respect for individual choices.
Ill agree with that but i wonder if they will be stressing religion etc...as one of their examples? ::) I honestly doubt it
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Ill agree with that but i wonder if they will be stressing religion etc...as one of their examples? ::) I honestly doubt it
I donno. But they should if they aren't. Alameda in right next to Oakland. About 45 minutes from where i live. It's a huge melting pot of cultures. Asian, Indian, Chinese, Black, Mexican, M.E., etc...
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I donno. But they should if they aren't. Alameda in right next to Oakland. About 45 minutes from where i live. It's a huge melting pot of cultures. Asian, Indian, Chinese, Black, Mexican, M.E., etc...
I agree with stressing understanding and acceptance of difference among us I just see this turning into some politically correct wet dream is all...
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I agree with stressing understanding and acceptance of difference among us I just see this turning into some politically correct wet dream is all...
After that overkill fiasco with the UH coach I am not very hopeful.
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Hmmmmm..... more gays trying to force their agenda onto everyone else....
What a surprise.
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LOL yes b/c the left is so tolerant ::)
And your attempted deflection with a statement regarding political parties..... is what again?
Last time I checked, there were Christians on both sides of the aisles. So whatever point you thought you were making, you failed.
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And your attempted deflection with a statement regarding political parties..... is what again?
Last time I checked, there were Christians on both sides of the aisles. So whatever point you thought you were making, you failed.
sure im positive when you lib dousche bags refer to the religious zealots in this country they are refering to the left? ::)
LOL I wonder how many liberals would flunk this class? better?
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There are christians on both sides of the aisles.
Splitting hairs and attempting to seperate them by political affiliation is not making a point of any kind. At least not a rational or relevant one. But keep trying. Eventually you might make some sense.
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How many Christians do you think would flunk a class like that?
Not a whole lot.
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Unfortunately too many parents all too often too a poor job of raising their children.
I don't know if I am for this teaching in schools because i don't know the exact details of what's being taught. I would think what's being taught isn't "promoting a gay lifestyle" but instead teaching tolerance and respect for individual choices.
Keep in mind the movement isn't just about "a gay lifestyle." It's "GLBT," "gender identity," and one I recently heard about: "intersex" (whatever the heck that means).
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Keep in mind the movement isn't just about "a gay lifestyle." It's "GLBT," "gender identity," and one I recently heard about: "intersex" (whatever the heck that means).
Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. All parts of human culture have a right to exist with in reason.
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Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. All parts of human culture have a right to exist with in reason.
Everyone has the right to do whatever they want on their own time within the confines of the law. Whether all of these things should be part of compulsory education that indicates all of this behavior is normal is another story.
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Everyone has the right to do whatever they want on their own time within the confines of the law. Whether all of these things should be part of compulsory education that indicates all of this behavior is normal is another story.
Well, one charge is promoting gay lifestyle. Don't see it. And whether its normal or not it does exist. And no one should get persecuted, disrespected, or discriminated for a lifestyle choice. A lack of guidance and eduction breeds hatred and fear.
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Well, one charge is promoting gay lifestyle. Don't see it. And whether its normal or not it does exist. And no one should get persecuted, disrespected, or discriminated for a lifestyle choice. A lack of guidance and eduction breeds hatred and fear.
It's not just the "gay lifestyle." It's much more than that.
Whether all these lifestyle practices should be deemed normal is a parental decision. It is entirely possible to disapprove of a lifestyle without disliking, persecuting, etc. the person. Failing to force this stuff on kids isn't going to breed hatred and fear.
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Keep in mind the movement isn't just about "a gay lifestyle." It's "GLBT," "gender identity," and one I recently heard about: "intersex" (whatever the heck that means).
you don't know what intersex means?
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::)
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::)
what does that mean?
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It's not just the "gay lifestyle." It's much more than that.
Whether all these lifestyle practices should be deemed normal is a parental decision. It is entirely possible to disapprove of a lifestyle without disliking, persecuting, etc. the person. Failing to force this stuff on kids isn't going to breed hatred and fear.
It's not about forcing anything on a kid. Furthermore, these lifestyles aren't normal. There's nothing wrong with being not normal. Failing to educate kids does risk the entrance of hatred and fear. Additionally it is very possible to disapprove a lifestyle and yet educate a person on the sanctity of personal freedoms/choices.
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It's not about forcing anything on a kid. Furthermore, these lifestyles aren't normal. There's nothing wrong with being not normal. Failing to educate kids does risk the entrance of hatred and fear. Additionally it is very possible to disapprove a lifestyle and yet educate a person on the sanctity of personal freedoms/choices.
especially if they're being taught intolerance at home
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especially if they're being taught intolerance at home
You mean like teaching your child to call former president BUSH a murderer? ;) ;D
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You mean like teaching your child to call former president BUSH a murderer? ;) ;D
not exactly
it's ok to be intolerant of murderers
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not exactly
it's ok to be intolerant of murderers
lol ;D
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It's not about forcing anything on a kid. Furthermore, these lifestyles aren't normal. There's nothing wrong with being not normal. Failing to educate kids does risk the entrance of hatred and fear. Additionally it is very possible to disapprove a lifestyle and yet educate a person on the sanctity of personal freedoms/choices.
That's exactly what they're doing (using force). Unless a parent can afford to put the kid in private school or home school the kid, both the kid and the parent have no choice in this matter.
I haven't seen the curriculum, but I would be floored if it didn't treat all of these lifestyle practices as "normal." There is something wrong with compulsory education that teaches a kid that abnormal behavior is normal.
I don't buy that "hatred and fear" argument. It's a total overstatement. Like saying that all people who don't approve of these varying lifestyle choices are "bigots."
We are all already taught to respect people. We have laws on the books that protect everyone, regardless of what kind of lifestyle they lead. I view this as similar to unnecessary "hate crimes" legislation. We already criminalize assault, murder, etc.
This really is about trying to force-feed an agenda to the public and normalize abnormality. But at the end of the day, the primary issue for me is the intrusion on the parents' rights.
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That's exactly what they're doing (using force). Unless a parent can afford to put the kid in private school or home school the kid, both the kid and the parent have no choice in this matter.
I haven't seen the curriculum, but I would be floored if it didn't treat all of these lifestyle practices as "normal." There is something wrong with compulsory education that teaches a kid that abnormal behavior is normal.
I don't buy that "hatred and fear" argument. It's a total overstatement. Like saying that all people who don't approve of these varying lifestyle choices are "bigots."
We are all already taught to respect people. We have laws on the books that protect everyone, regardless of what kind of lifestyle they lead. I view this as similar to unnecessary "hate crimes" legislation. We already criminalize assault, murder, etc.
This really is about trying to force-feed an agenda to the public and normalize abnormality. But at the end of the day, the primary issue for me is the intrusion on the parents' rights.
bum - what is your "worst case" scenario if your kid had to sit through a class teaching them that it was no OK to intimidate or make fun of kids who might be gay or even just kids they think are strange and abnormal
I'm not quite clear on the harm that could happen to your kid
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bum - what is your "worst case" scenario if your kid had to sit through a class teaching them that it was no OK to intimidate or make fun of kids who might be gay or even just kids they think are strange and abnormal
I'm not quite clear on the harm that could happen to your kid
My kids go to private school.
I don't really care if you're clear or not. HTH. :)
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My kids go to private school.
I don't really care if you're clear or not. HTH. :)
ok - let's pretend you're not avoiding the question
let's pretend we're talking about someone who shares your views but can't afford private school
how about that kid
what do you think it is the worst thing that could happen if she/he had to attend that class
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That's exactly what they're doing (using force). Unless a parent can afford to put the kid in private school or home school the kid, both the kid and the parent have no choice in this matter.
That already exists with other curriculum.
I haven't seen the curriculum, but I would be floored if it didn't treat all of these lifestyle practices as "normal." There is something wrong with compulsory education that teaches a kid that abnormal behavior is normal.
I doubt theyd call these lifestyle choices normal and i doubt the kids would see these choices as normal because they see normal and abnormal everyday.
I don't buy that "hatred and fear" argument. It's a total overstatement. Like saying that all people who don't approve of these varying lifestyle choices are "bigots."
Not at all. Lack of education about social subjects can provoke fear and hatred. Of course not in every instance or person.
We are all already taught to respect people. We have laws on the books that protect everyone, regardless of what kind of lifestyle they lead. I view this as similar to unnecessary "hate crimes" legislation. We already criminalize assault, murder, etc.
This is true, but its not working and adding more education will make it work better and more effectively with more people circumventing parents who would teach their children to hate and persecute.
This really is about trying to force-feed an agenda to the public and normalize abnormality.
I don't see anything here that supports the argument that they are trying to normalize abnormal behavior.
But at the end of the day, the primary issue for me is the intrusion on the parents' rights.
In that regard parents rights are already trampled on.
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That already exists with other curriculum.
I doubt theyd call these lifestyle choices normal and i doubt the kids would see these choices as normal because they see normal and abnormal everyday.
Not at all. Lack of education about social subjects can provoke fear and hatred. Of course not in every instance or person.
This is true, but its not working and adding more education will make it work better and more effectively with more people circumventing parents who would teach their children to hate and persecute.
I don't see anything here that supports the argument that they are trying to normalize abnormal behavior.
In that regard parents rights are already trampled on.
All public school curriculum is forced on parents and kids. That's pretty much my whole point. Don't take controversial social issues like this and force them on kids over the parents' objections.
How do you conclude that the laws we currently have on the books aren't working? People are always going to break the law. We already teach kids to obey the law. That's not what this whole thing is about.
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All public school curriculum is forced on parents and kids. That's pretty much my whole point. Don't take controversial social issues like this and force them on kids over the parents' objections.
How do you conclude that the laws we currently have on the books aren't working? People are always going to break the law. We already teach kids to obey the law. That's not what this whole thing is about.
the class won't do any harm so there's no reason for all the fuss
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All public school curriculum is forced on parents and kids. That's pretty much my whole point. Don't take controversial social issues like this and force them on kids over the parents' objections.
How do you conclude that the laws we currently have on the books aren't working? People are always going to break the law. We already teach kids to obey the law. That's not what this whole thing is about.
Did you read the article you posted? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just don't know any other way to say it.
Basically, you got a bunch of parents who think teaching kids to be respectful of other people's individual choices means promoting alternative lifestyles to their kids. Nothing in the article or anything posted here, to my knowledge supports that. You keep on using the word "forced" where it doesn't apply at all in this situation.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of parents out there who teach their kids to "hate" because in essence, they are ignorant. That's why education and guidelines on conduct and behavior is important with our kids.
You ask how do I know that the laws we currently have on our books aren't working? Are you actually suggesting that there isn't sexual orientation discrimination? Are you suggesting children of gay parents never get severely cruelly teased? We do already teach kids to obey the law. But also need to teach kids to be respectful of other lifestyle choices. That's what this is about. Just as kids are taught, I would hope, that racism is wrong.
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Did you read the article you posted? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just don't know any other way to say it.
Basically, you got a bunch of parents who think teaching kids to be respectful of other people's individual choices means promoting alternative lifestyles to their kids. Nothing in the article or anything posted here, to my knowledge supports that. You keep on using the word "forced" where it doesn't apply at all in this situation.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of parents out there who teach their kids to "hate" because in essence, they are ignorant. That's why education and guidelines on conduct and behavior is important with our kids.
You ask how do I know that the laws we currently have on our books aren't working? Are you actually suggesting that there isn't sexual orientation discrimination? Are you suggesting children of gay parents never get severely cruelly teased? We do already teach kids to obey the law. But also need to teach kids to be respectful of other lifestyle choices. That's what this is about. Just as kids are taught, I would hope, that racism is wrong.
Yes I read the article. The way I read it is they are going to teach "all kids in the district's elementary schools about gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender alternative families," which will include some kind of instruction these people are engaged in normal behavior. If the parents disagree with this instruction, they don't have the option of pulling their kid out of school with an excused absence. Kids are required to be in school. That makes it forced. It certainly isn't voluntary.
There is all kinds of discrimination. But in response to my contention that we already have laws on the books and we already teach kids to obey the law, you said "This is true, but its not working." That's why I asked the question.
What they are proposing isn't necessary. I'm personally involved with volunteer work in elementary schools and one of the things we focus on is bullying and teasing. I'm sure this is done all over the country, including in California.
But again, this isn't about teaching kids not to tease. This kind of teaching is already done. It's about advancing an agenda.
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Yes I read the article. The way I read it is they are going to teach "all kids in the district's elementary schools about gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender alternative families," which will include some kind of instruction these people are engaged in normal behavior. If the parents disagree with this instruction, they don't have the option of pulling their kid out of school with an excused absence. Kids are required to be in school. That makes it forced. It certainly isn't voluntary.
There is all kinds of discrimination. But in response to my contention that we already have laws on the books and we already teach kids to obey the law, you said "This is true, but its not working." That's why I asked the question.
What they are proposing isn't necessary. I'm personally involved with volunteer work in elementary schools and one of the things we focus on is bullying and teasing. I'm sure this is done all over the country, including in California.
But again, this isn't about teaching kids not to tease. This kind of teaching is already done. It's about advancing an agenda.
You still haven't shown anything that supports advancing an agenda. Also can you show me where it's instructed that these people are engaged in normal behavior? And if that "teaching" about teasing is already done, It's not being done effectively.
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Not a whole lot.
Bullshit.
Christians are the most intolerant group of people you can encounter.
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what does that mean?
It's his typical response when he has nothing of any depth to post or counter argue with.
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You still haven't shown anything that supports advancing an agenda. Also can you show me where it's instructed that these people are engaged in normal behavior? And if that "teaching" about teasing is already done, It's not being done effectively.
I can't show you anything from the curriculum, because I haven't seen it. Just using common sense. The people who support this agenda believe all of these alternative lifestyles are normal. In fact, many of them argue it's genetic. They also put these lifestyle choices in the same category as innate traits, like race and gender. You can believe they will be either neutral or say that the behavior is abnormal, but I don't think that's realistic.
No amount of teaching or punishment will completely stop teasing.
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Bullshit.
Christians are the most intolerant group of people you can encounter.
Quite the opposite. True Christians are some of the most tolerant group of people you can encounter.
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It's his typical response when he has nothing of any depth to post or counter argue with.
::)
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::)
you seem to be incapable of using words
what is the problem?
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I can't show you anything from the curriculum, because I haven't seen it. Just using common sense. The people who support this agenda believe all of these alternative lifestyles are normal. In fact, many of them argue it's genetic. They also put these lifestyle choices in the same category as innate traits, like race and gender. You can believe they will be either neutral or say that the behavior is abnormal, but I don't think that's realistic.
No amount of teaching or punishment will completely stop teasing.
That's an assumption. I support these classes and i don't think homosexual behavior is normal. How could anyone think think ti's normal? Are most people in the world gay? In fact most of your argument seems based on assumption and bias. You keep on referring to an "agenda" being "forced" on children.
BTW, Religion is also a life style choice.
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Quite the opposite. True Christians are some of the most tolerant group of people you can encounter.
O'rly? I guess true christians are not those found in the conservative ideal party then huh?
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::)
No need to prove my statement any further.
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O'rly? I guess true christians are not those found in the conservative ideal party then huh?
The vast majority of Christians I know are very tolerant. It's the groups, certain churches, coalitions, etc... that often times are not.
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Quite the opposite. True Christians are some of the most tolerant group of people you can encounter.
yeah, we've seen that incredible tolerance and compassion from you on this board
here's a story from todays news: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/09/07/ktvk.az.rally.church.ktvk
This preacher is clearly not a "true christian" like you.
Since guys like this are giving true christians like you a bad name (note, not you but TRUE CHRISTIANS like you) why don't the true christians like you go help these people understand the error of their ways.
It's the moderates in a religion who allow the radicals to stain the whole religion
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haha "gay-unfriendly classes"
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That's an assumption. I support these classes and i don't think homosexual behavior is normal. How could anyone think think ti's normal? Are most people in the world gay? In fact most of your argument seems based on assumption and bias. You keep on referring to an "agenda" being "forced" on children.
BTW, Religion is also a life style choice.
We're both making assumptions. Ozmo you know good and well that numerous people who advance the GLBT agenda contend that these lifestyle choices are actually genetic.
The free exercise of religion (or no religion) is also ingrained in the Constitution. "Gender identity" is not.
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O'rly? I guess true christians are not those found in the conservative ideal party then huh?
True Christians are found everywhere. Has nothing to do with political parties.
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The vast majority of Christians I know are very tolerant.
Same here.
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The vast majority of Christians I know are very tolerant. It's the groups, certain churches, coalitions, etc... that often times are not.
I'm sure the same goes for Muslims too
unfortunately the tolerant ones are not very newsworthy and its' only the radical fringe that causes all the problems and paints the whole group with that broad brush
that's the reason why the moderates should be the first and most vocal opponents of the radicals
unfortunately I think there are moderates who like the radical elements because they do and say the things that the moderates think but don't have the guts to do themselves
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can't they just teach the kids not to tease, or make fun of anyone? to treat everyone with respect? this includes blacks, whites, gays, handicapped, muslims - everyone.
what definition are they using to tell these kids what gay means? that these people are attracted to and having sex with each other?
why does a kindergarten thru fifth grader need to be told about sex from their school in any form?
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can't they just teach the kids not to tease, or make fun of anyone? to treat everyone with respect? this includes blacks, whites, gays, handicapped, muslims - everyone.
what definition are they using to tell these kids what gay means? that these people are attracted to and having sex with each other?
why does a kindergarten thru fifth grader need to be told about sex from their school in any form?
Good questions. They already teach kids not to tease, etc. This is unnecessary.
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We're both making assumptions. Ozmo you know good and well that numerous people who advance the GLBT agenda contend that these lifestyle choices are actually genetic.
The free exercise of religion (or no religion) is also ingrained in the Constitution. "Gender identity" is not.
People don't make choices based on genetics. People may have a genetic disposition to making a choices however. You are right in that we are both making assumptions about this. Maybe more will be revealed in the future.
I agree, that perhaps this can be address by existing instruction on teasing, but I also think, it needs to singled out in certain areas.
So until more is revealed, I am still for this, and don't see any evidence as advancing any kind of agenda.