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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Skip8282 on September 27, 2009, 07:20:15 PM

Title: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Skip8282 on September 27, 2009, 07:20:15 PM
 :D

Anybody else think this is a good idea?

-----------

More school: Obama would curtail summer vacation


By LIBBY QUAID
WASHINGTON - Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.

But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.

Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.

"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."

Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.

Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?

---

Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.

"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."

While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests - Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).

---

Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.

Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.

"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."

In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.

Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.

In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics - kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.

Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.

Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.

Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.

Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.

That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.

Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.

"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.

Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.

The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.

Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs.

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 27, 2009, 07:26:37 PM
As a former teacher, I can tell you it's a GREAT IDEA in my opinion.  Kids lose so much info and skill over the summer.  Quarter 1 of each year is just dedicated to review of last year.

I think the old breakdown (same 180 day schedule) is something like 45 days in school, 15 days of vacation...(5 days a week)  Or, 9 weeks of school, followed by 3 weeks of vacation. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: tonymctones on September 27, 2009, 07:45:52 PM
yes and no the system itself is pretty shitty right now adding more time in a shitty system will not produce the effects we are seeking.

I really dont think keeping kids in school for 9 hours a day is the answer I say make the 7 hours more efficient and get rid of some useless shit.

I wouldnt mind a less of a summer break but i just think 9 hours a day of school is just to much...
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 27, 2009, 07:55:12 PM
yes and no the system itself is pretty shitty right now adding more time in a shitty system will not produce the effects we are seeking.

I really dont think keeping kids in school for 9 hours a day is the answer I say make the 7 hours more efficient and get rid of some useless shit.

I wouldnt mind a less of a summer break but i just think 9 hours a day of school is just to much...

10 weeks on, 2 weeks off might be a better split.  Plus christmas, thanksgiving and spring breaks.

What do you define as useless sh*t, tony? 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: tonymctones on September 27, 2009, 08:23:08 PM
10 weeks on, 2 weeks off might be a better split.  Plus christmas, thanksgiving and spring breaks.

What do you define as useless sh*t, tony? 
I dont really like that either man if they kids all got the same 2 weeks off ok that would be ok but the year round bs isnt cool

This are still kids and they need to have a life outside of school imho

tons of shit, teaching toward exams instead of simply teaching, I think more of an emphasis on math would be a good thing less so on english that might just be me though, ignorant shit like black history month extra curricular activities.

Perhaps raise the standards of extra curricular to like a 3.0 GPA

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: brooklynbruiser on September 27, 2009, 08:24:37 PM
I think Mr. POTUS needs to prioritize and the media stop with the sensational headlines. Figure out if we will even have money to pay these teachers first, eh? :)
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: tonymctones on September 27, 2009, 08:33:43 PM
Also i think most of the shit that is taught in a year can be taught in half the time enabling you to get twice as much in.

The whole no child left behind BS screws ppl and that mind set in general screws ppl set up time after school for those struggling shit you could even make it mandetory.

BUT DONT slow down the learning process of others for the sake of one or two teach to the class's level not the ones who have trouble and then tutor after school.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 27, 2009, 08:37:30 PM
i taught from 98 til 2004.  gr 3, 4, 5, then k-8 computer.  then adult education.

and before 'no child', teachers could literally teach anything they wanted.  if they didn't understand a chapter in a math book, they could skip it.

From what i can tell.... 'no child' wasn't about the kids... it was about getting the teachers to use a uniform curriculum.  Many old-timers were offended 'the govt is trying to tell us what to teach!"  But they were all doing diff stuff.

They 'teach to the test' now - but it means they're teaching the same 5 strands of curriculum now. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: tonymctones on September 27, 2009, 08:43:56 PM
i taught from 98 til 2004.  gr 3, 4, 5, then k-8 computer.  then adult education.

and before 'no child', teachers could literally teach anything they wanted.  if they didn't understand a chapter in a math book, they could skip it.

From what i can tell.... 'no child' wasn't about the kids... it was about getting the teachers to use a uniform curriculum.  Many old-timers were offended 'the govt is trying to tell us what to teach!"  But they were all doing diff stuff.

They 'teach to the test' now - but it means they're teaching the same 5 strands of curriculum now. 
Man I remember back in high school we would have specific classes set aside to get us ready for tests. I mean seriously we should have this shit covered in regular class and if you dont get it like I said after school tutoring.

I understand wanting to be told what to do or how to teach I think giving guidelines of what needs to be taught and then letting teachers decide how they teach it is best. Then let the teachers teach what they deem necessary in the time left over.

My school actually taught toward the tests 240 not specific curriculum I mean like I said they had classes set aside specifically for test prep that everyone had to attend.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on September 27, 2009, 08:52:14 PM
the system itself is pretty shitty right now adding more time in a shitty system will not produce the effects we are seeking.



This.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on September 27, 2009, 11:03:18 PM
This.

Makes sense....

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 27, 2009, 11:23:53 PM
One thing I heard the other day that was kind of interesting. This teacher and scientist suggested to stop with the homeworks and assignments. His reason was that we as adults always says 'don't bring your job home'. but with our kids, it's supposedly a good thing.
he further argued that the best place to study is in the school and that's where professionals are able to assist.
It made me change my mind a little bit.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: tonymctones on September 27, 2009, 11:44:02 PM
One thing I heard the other day that was kind of interesting. This teacher and scientist suggested to stop with the homeworks and assignments. His reason was that we as adults always says 'don't bring your job home'. but with our kids, it's supposedly a good thing.
he further argued that the best place to study is in the school and that's where professionals are able to assist.
It made me change my mind a little bit.

Ill agree with that part most ppl cant study at home myself included
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: MM2K on September 28, 2009, 01:18:27 AM
Meeehhhh, he needs to get his priorities straight. Whatever the merits or demerits of the length of the schoolyear, it is the least of our education problems.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 04:41:03 AM
This.

This is another idiotic idea that has huge implications none of you are considering. 

In most states, school education is financed by primarily by local sales and property taxes. 

Additionally, most teachers and people who work for the education system are unionized and under contract.

Mandating more hours like Dear Leader is saying will only cause these contracts to be broken and massive tax increases needed to fund this. 

Adding to the tax burden is not the answer to the problems in education.       
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: pedro01 on September 28, 2009, 05:20:32 AM
School holidays bring back a flood of happy childhood memories to me. Playing soccer in the park with my pals, goofing around, a holiday with my family. They were 6 weeks but they seemed to last forever.

It would be a sad day indeed when that is taken away from kids.

I managed to learn at school, find good work, start a business. I can't see how more time in that boring fucking classroom would have done anything for me.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 05:31:21 AM
School holidays bring back a flood of happy childhood memories to me. Playing soccer in the park with my pals, goofing around, a holiday with my family. They were 6 weeks but they seemed to last forever.

It would be a sad day indeed when that is taken away from kids.

I managed to learn at school, find good work, start a business. I can't see how more time in that boring fucking classroom would have done anything for me.

The issue is what is going on during the day.     
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 05:48:00 AM
School holidays bring back a flood of happy childhood memories to me. Playing soccer in the park with my pals, goofing around, a holiday with my family. They were 6 weeks but they seemed to last forever.

It would be a sad day indeed when that is taken away from kids.

I managed to learn at school, find good work, start a business. I can't see how more time in that boring fucking classroom would have done anything for me.

This is just opinion on this matter but:

From what I can tell most teachers are women and themselves not the top of their graduating classes, especially in the subject matter that they are teaching.  Most of these women are dealing with unruly brats and have little ability to really run a tight ship where learning is the primary focus.  Many have little support from admn and upper levels to discipline kids and, from what I can tell, are encouraged to inflate grades and simply teach to mandatory tests so their school passes certain evaluations, etc.

Additionally, and probably most importantly, is that schools are not teaching and concentrating on the basics. 

Reading, Writing, Math. 

Those subjects are the foundation for everything else, not global warming, slavery, etc.

The entire education process seems very diluted IMHO where a lot of these students know a little about a lot of subjects, but are proficient in none.         

 

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: BM OUT on September 28, 2009, 06:19:14 AM
Great more time to teach kids to sing "barack hussein Obama hmm,hmm,hm".Super.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: MCWAY on September 28, 2009, 06:22:45 AM
:D

Anybody else think this is a good idea?

-----------

More school: Obama would curtail summer vacation


By LIBBY QUAID
WASHINGTON - Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.

But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.

Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.

"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."

Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.

Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?

---

Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.

"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."

While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests - Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).

---

Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.

Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.

"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."

In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.

Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.

In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics - kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.

Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.

Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.

Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.

Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.

That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.

Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.

"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.

Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.

The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.

Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs.

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."



There goes the youth vote for 2012 for Obama!!

 ;D
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 28, 2009, 06:41:41 AM
when you cut art and music, studies have shown performance in math and writing drop in a major way.  One of huckabee's major major platforms in 2007 when he went on Imus and got his ball rolling for 2008.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 06:47:13 AM
when you cut art and music, studies have shown performance in math and writing drop in a major way.  One of huckabee's major major platforms in 2007 when he went on Imus and got his ball rolling for 2008.

I am not an expert on this situation, however, it seems to me that with the all the "advancements" in education, things have been getting worse. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 28, 2009, 07:01:36 AM
I am not an expert on this situation, however, it seems to me that with the all the "advancements" in education, things have been getting worse. 

we're doing better than we did 30 years ago, to be sure.  It's just that the rest of the world has advanced much more. 

our school system isn't terrible.  it's just too laid back, that's all.  Changing the schedule might alleviate that a bit.  without that 11 week gap every summer (and the lag time before and after it), focus and retention might be better.

parents know how much time their kids waste each summer.  If summer break suddenly changed into 4 mini-breaks, retention at the very least would skyrocket.

I'm down for trying the idea in some districts and seeing how performance changes.  I'm sure it will increase. it'll just be a matter of whether or not it's worth it with other issues that arise. 


contracts are haywire right now anyway.  every year they are battling cause budget $ aren't there.  no more yearly raises, and new teachers... whew... no work for ya!
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: BM OUT on September 28, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
when you cut art and music, studies have shown performance in math and writing drop in a major way.  One of huckabee's major major platforms in 2007 when he went on Imus and got his ball rolling for 2008.

There should be ZERO art and music.Its a total waste of time.Hukabee is a little girl.Id rather have them give more time for recess so kids can play sports then learn to play some faggy musical instrument.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 28, 2009, 07:17:03 AM
There should be ZERO art and music.Its a total waste of time.Hukabee is a little ####.Id rather have them give more time for recess so kids can play sports then learn to play some faggy musical instrument.

A lot of creative processes develop from art and music that contribute to success in writing and math problem solving.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: BM OUT on September 28, 2009, 07:30:58 AM
A lot of creative processes develop from art and music that contribute to success in writing and math problem solving.

Yeah,like teaching kids to sing "barack husein obama hmm hmm hmm".Thanks but no thanks.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Option D on September 28, 2009, 07:31:14 AM
Well personally i agree with tomy here...I think the system is fucked, I was talkin to my lady this morning and our system is all the way bad...we dont need more time in class...we need more efficient teachers and why the fuck do we constantly compare ourselves to the chinese...i dont give a shit about what china does....
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Option D on September 28, 2009, 07:32:39 AM
Yeah,like teaching kids to sing "barack husein obama hmm hmm hmm".Thanks but no thanks.

 ::)


lord...here we go again...

"its clear that obama has a deep seeded hatred for white people". (2 min later).."um...err..im not saying he dosent like white people"

And you fucks take this as gosepel...


Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: BM OUT on September 28, 2009, 07:41:01 AM
::)


lord...here we go again...

"its clear that obama has a deep seeded hatred for white people". (2 min later).."um...err..im not saying he dosent like white people"

And you fucks take this as gosepel...




Ive said from day one he HATES whites.Ive given example after example of how he hates whites from DAY ONE of his presidency when he let that filthy little racist inarticulate nit wit Rev. Lowery get up there and insult whites at his inauguration.Obama= Wright.

Now,if you expand the school year how does this help those kids who live in rural areas who have to help on the farm?How is Obama,the great brilliant thinker who's entire career is community organising a city into ruins going to fix that dilemma?How about kids with summer jobs?Kids who play travel sports?Stick to fucking up the economy and trying to make everyone poor,don't screw with our established systems.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2009, 08:06:45 AM
Ive said from day one he HATES whites.Ive given example after example of how he hates whites from DAY ONE of his presidency when he let that filthy little racist inarticulate nit wit Rev. Lowery get up there and insult whites at his inauguration.Obama= Wright.

Now,if you expand the school year how does this help those kids who live in rural areas who have to help on the farm?How is Obama,the great brilliant thinker who's entire career is community organising a city into ruins going to fix that dilemma?How about kids with summer jobs?Kids who play travel sports?Stick to fucking up the economy and trying to make everyone poor,don't screw with our established systems.

Like it or not Billy.

The Western World is shifting more and more into a tech society.

Farming will always have its place.

But these days, eg milk farmers don't even guide their cows to their milk robots anymore.

It's completely automized.

But someone will have to be able to construct, or even develop, those milk robots in the first place.

What I'm getting at, is that education, and high education, will become increasingly important.

You can be pissed at Obama all you want.

I actually agree with you on some of the internet integrity issues he's coming down on.

But where you're getting the idea that he's a racist, I just don't understand. He's born of A WHITE MOTHER.

The guy is just as white as he is black.

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Option D on September 28, 2009, 08:15:28 AM
Like it or not Billy.

The Western World is shifting more and more into a tech society.

Farming will always have its place.

But these days, eg milk farmers don't even guide their cows to their milk robots anymore.

It's completely automized.

But someone will have to be able to construct, or even develop, those milk robots in the first place.

What I'm getting at, is that education, and high education, will become increasingly important.

You can be pissed at Obama all you want.

I actually agree with you on some of the internet integrity issues he's coming down on.

But where you're getting the idea that he's a racist, I just don't understand. He's born of A WHITE MOTHER.

The guy is just as white as he is black.



Dude....Fox News says hes racist so dammit...he is racist
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 08:24:05 AM
Like it or not Billy.

The Western World is shifting more and more into a tech society.

Farming will always have its place.

But these days, eg milk farmers don't even guide their cows to their milk robots anymore.

It's completely automized.

But someone will have to be able to construct, or even develop, those milk robots in the first place.

What I'm getting at, is that education, and high education, will become increasingly important.

You can be pissed at Obama all you want.

I actually agree with you on some of the internet integrity issues he's coming down on.

But where you're getting the idea that he's a racist, I just don't understand. He's born of A WHITE MOTHER.

The guy is just as white as he is black.



Hedge - just read Dreams of My Father.  It starts there.  Obama has a lot of serious mental issues and totally divorced himself from his white side, despite the fact that his black father abandoned him and his white relatives raised him. 

 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2009, 08:32:03 AM
Hedge - just read Dreams of My Father.  It starts there.  Obama has a lot of serious mental issues and totally divorced himself from his white side, despite the fact that his black father abandoned him and his white relatives raised him. 

 

Ok. I'm game.

I will read Dreams From My Father.

You will too.

Let's do this. For real.

You and me, a little Getbig Book club. I will pick up a paperback copy tomorrow.

Lets have it read by the end of the week and then give some feedback.

It will be interesting, actually. :)
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 08:33:51 AM
Ok. I'm game.

I will read Dreams From My Father.

You will too.

Let's do this. For real.

You and me, a little Getbig Book club. I will pick up a paperback copy tomorrow.

Lets have it read by the end of the week and then give some feedback.

It will be interesting, actually. :)

Hell No! 

Even if obama gets .15 cent royalty I am not buying the rubbish.  I have read enough exerpts online to know what is going on.   
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: BM OUT on September 28, 2009, 08:37:02 AM
Where do I get he is a racist?
1-Lowery at his inaugeration
2-Reich insulting whites and Obama saying nothing
3-black panther issue
4-Sotomayor
5-Gates
6-Van Jones
7-his head of fcc diversity

Thats 7 issues SINCE hes been president.Add to that THE WHITE MANS GREED RUNS A WORLD IN NEED,GOING TO REV. WRIGHTS CHURCH FOR TWENTY YEARS,I mean how much more evidence do you need.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2009, 08:38:26 AM
Hell No! 

Even if obama gets .15 cent royalty I am not buying the rubbish.  I have read enough exerpts online to know what is going on.   

Borrow one from a friend or a library then?

If you're gonna tell me to read a book by Obama, the very least one would expect is that you would have read it yourself?

Or is prepared to read it? ???
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 08:42:54 AM
Borrow one from a friend or a library then?

If you're gonna tell me to read a book by Obama, the very least one would expect is that you would have read it yourself?

Or is prepared to read it? ???

I have read many exerpts online.  He states clear as day that from 12-13 since thereon in he considers himself black and has divorced himself from any "whiteness". 

I am reading a book by Hayek right now which I consider far more informative, enlightening, and uselful, than something ghost written by William Ayeres. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2009, 08:48:35 AM
Where do I get he is a racist?
1-Lowery at his inaugeration
2-Reich insulting whites and Obama saying nothing
3-black panther issue
4-Sotomayor
5-Gates
6-Van Jones
7-his head of fcc diversity

Thats 7 issues SINCE hes been president.Add to that THE WHITE MANS GREED RUNS A WORLD IN NEED,GOING TO REV. WRIGHTS CHURCH FOR TWENTY YEARS,I mean how much more evidence do you need.

The really big issue I agree with, and this is actually a pretty strong issue with me, is Reverend Wright.

And it's more of the fact I think Obama shows that he's just another crooked politician that will do whatever it takes to get elected (sit in a church with a crazy reverend), rather than stand up for what is truly right.

That really disappointed me.

So that one issue is a big blow. Maybe not in the same regard as you view it, but I do see it as hypocrisy and weak.

Spineless and cowardly behavior.

Opportunism.

I'm still positive that Obama is not a racist though.

Why would he pick Biden and not Richardson as a vice president? Your answer will probably be "because he needs to sucker the whites".

If he had picked a white guy instead of Sotomayor? Then your reason for that would've been the same "He needed to fool the whiteys, make 'em think they're safe".

I have no stats to base my judgement on Obama on. It's just my gut feeling from watching the guy speak, and doing his job these first days.

He's got his flaws, and the shit with Wright was wrong (pun intended). Obama is just another politician IMO.

But no more racist than anyone of us.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2009, 08:51:46 AM
I have read many exerpts online.  He states clear as day that from 12-13 since thereon in he considers himself black and has divorced himself from any "whiteness". 

I am reading a book by Hayek right now which I consider far more informative, enlightening, and uselful, than something ghost written by William Ayeres. 

Why did you tell me to read Dreams From my Father to get an insight on Obama if you don't think it was written by Barrack Obama?
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
Why did you tell me to read Dreams From my Father to get an insight on Obama if you don't think it was written by Barrack Obama?

I think that it was a collaborative effort.

BTW - you said:


Why would he pick Biden and not Richardson as a vice president? Your answer will probably be "because he needs to sucker the whites".


In case you did not know - Richardson is currently under Grand Jury investigation for a few issues regarding pay for play and illegal donations. 

 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 09:07:57 AM
Saturday, March 29, 2008
Quotes from the Obama autobiography, Dreams of my father

 
WARNING: These Quotes include Offensive Language and Racism.

"That’s just how white folks will do you. It wasn’t merely the cruelty involved; I was learning that black people could be mean and then some. It was a particular brand of arrogance, an obtuseness in otherwise sane people that brought forth our bitter laughter. It was as if whites didn’t know they were being cruel in the first place. Or at least thought you deserving of their scorn."

"In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school"

"I Studied the Koran"

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

" I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE"

"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

"Desperate times called for desperate measures, and for many blacks, times were chronically desperate. If nationalism could create a strong and effective insularity, deliver on its promise of self-respect, then the hurt it might cause well-meaning whites, or the inner turmoil it caused people like me, would be of little consequence."

'It was obvious that certain whites could be exempted from the general category of our distrust: Ray was always telling me how cool my grandparents were. The term white was simply a shorthand for him, I decided, a tag for what my mother would call a bigot. And although I recognized the risks in his terminology-how easy it was to fall into the same sloppy thinking that my basketball coach had displayed (“There are white folks, and then there are ignorant motherfuckers like you,” I had finally told the coach before walking off the court that day)-Ray assured me that we would never talk about whites as whites in front of whites without knowing exactly what we were doing. Without knowing that there might be a price to pay."

"To avoid being mistaken for a [racial] sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.  We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy."

“Sister Regina,” Marcus said. “You know Barack, don’t you? I’m trying to tell Brother Barack here about this racist tract he’s reading.” He held up a copy of Heart of Darkness , evidence for the court. I reached over to snatch it out of his hands….I tossed the book into my backpack. “Actually, he’s right,” I said. “It is a racist book. The way Conrad sees it, Africa’s the cesspool of the world, black folks are savages, and any contact with them breeds infection.” Regina blew on her coffee. “So why are you reading it?” because the book teaches me things,” I said. “About white people, I mean. See, the book’s not really aboutAfrica. Or black people. It’s about the man who wrote it. The European. The American. A particular way of looking at the world. If you can keep your distance, it’s all there, in what’s said and what’s left unsaid. So I read the book to help me understand just what it is that makes white people so afraid. Their demons. The way ideas get twisted around. It helps me understand how people learn to hate.”

“And that’s important to you.”My life depends on it, I thought to myself. But I didn’t tell Regina that. I just smiled and said, “That’s the only way to cure an illness, right? Diagnose it.”

"When the weather was good, my roommate and I might sit out on the fire escape to smoke cigarettes and study the dusk washing blue over the city, or watch white people from the better neighborhoods nearby walk their dogs down our block to let the animals shit on our curbs-“Scoop the poop, you bastards!” my roommate would shout with impressive rage, and we’d laugh at the faces of both master and beast, grim and unapologetic as they hunkered down to do the deed.  I enjoyed such moments-but only in brief."

"As it was, I learned to slip back and forth between my black and white worlds, understanding that each possessed its own language and customs and structures of meaning, convinced that with a bit of translation on my part the two worlds would eventually cohere. Still, the feeling that something wasn’t quite right stayed with me, a warning that sounded whenever a white girl mentioned in the middle of conversation how much she liked Stevie Wonder; or when a woman in the supermarket asked me if I played basketball; or when the school principal told me I was cool." (Side Note, I'm White and get the Basketball question all the time, its the height, not the race, What a reactionary bozo.)

________________________ ___________________

I'll post tons of more Hedge. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 28, 2009, 09:31:26 AM
Public education is one of the most inefficient entities in our society.  If I was a parent I could teach my kid more in 3 months of summer vacation than they would probably get in 3 months of school.  That's the entire point of summer vacation.  Families going on trips together, fathers and mothers spending time with their children teaching them things they may not necessarily learn in school.  And let's face it kids need to learn a lot more about the things they aren't learning in school nowadays like courtesy, respect, relationships, how to change the car in their oil, etc.  

Plus some kids actually have to fucking work during the summer to pay for shit.  Obama is a fucking out of touch douchebag like most politicians. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 09:36:08 AM
Public education is one of the most inefficient entities in our society.  If I was a parent I could teach my kid more in 3 months of summer vacation than they would probably get in 3 months of school.  That's the entire point of summer vacation.  Families going on trips together, fathers and mothers spending time with their children teaching them things they may not necessarily learn in school.  And let's face it kids need to learn a lot more about the things they aren't learning in school nowadays like courtesy, respect, relationships, how to change the car in their oil, etc.  

Plus some kids actually have to fucking work during the summer to pay for shit.  Obama is a fucking out of touch douchebag like most politicians. 

Damn right, my dad put me to work at 11 y/o with as a laborer for a fence company where I worked every summer in Greenwich CT.  I did all sorts of stuff, mixed cement, learned how to erect fences, dig holes, make repairs, etc. 

I did it all the way through college and made decent mnoney all while learning how to make money and get stuff done. 
 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 28, 2009, 10:10:48 AM
Damn right, my dad put me to work at 11 y/o with as a laborer for a fence company where I worked every summer in Greenwich CT.  I did all sorts of stuff, mixed cement, learned how to erect fences, dig holes, make repairs, etc. 

I did it all the way through college and made decent mnoney all while learning how to make money and get stuff done. 
 

Me too bro!  Kids need to do physical labor to build character.  Kids need to be taught that not everything comes at the push of a button or the swipe of a credit card.  There are actual people out there that work to produce things in this country.  Maybe part of their year round schooling kids should have to spend their 3 months summer vacation working on a farm, a ranch, or doing some sort of physical labor like construction.  Blood sweat and tears!  I'm not about to say kids should spend 3 months doing community service i.e. serving their government but some program that's mandatory like the Boy Scouts or some other system wouldn't be a bad idea.  But this nonsense that kids should spend another 3 months in a feminized class room listening to some teacher tell them what they think they need to know to be another groomed corporate slave......no way. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2009, 10:13:26 AM
Me too bro!  Kids need to do physical labor to build character.  Kids need to be taught that not everything comes at the push of a button or the swipe of a credit card.  There are actual people out there that work to produce things in this country.  Maybe part of their year round schooling kids should have to spend their 3 months summer vacation working on a farm, a ranch, or doing some sort of physical labor like construction.  Blood sweat and tears!  I'm not about to say kids should spend 3 months doing community service i.e. serving their government but some program that's mandatory like the Boy Scouts or some other system wouldn't be a bad idea.  But this nonsense that kids should spend another 3 months in a feminized class room listening to some teacher tell them what they think they need to know to be another groomed corporate slave......no way. 

Actually - thats probably something to look at. 

One year focus on construction and basic use of tools.

One Year - focus on survivial and shit like that.

One Year- farming, planting and growing. 

One Year - Self Defense, marksmanship, safety, etc.


Sounds good to me. 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Skip8282 on September 28, 2009, 04:23:42 PM
I don't see any reason we can't increase the school year and still promote the great ideas posted in this thread.  Something like 240's 10 weeks on 2 weeks off sounds like a good start.

Vacations with kids?  You'll still be able to take them.
Hard work?  Hell yea you guys are right.  They should.  I think we've all happened upon the college kid who thinks he's entitled to 100K/yr starting and a personal blackberry.  But, hard work can also be fit into a modified schedule.

I think Hedge is right though.  Although there's a lot to be said about hard work, working SMARTER, is what's going to get these kids ahead in our society.  It doesn't matter how well I lay the foundation of my porch, it's how I manipulate database variables that's going to get me the promotion at work.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: headhuntersix on September 28, 2009, 04:33:06 PM
Wow..I even agree with the morons I can't stand, on this one. All good ideas. What we don't need is more money spent. If they do decide to overhaul or lengthen our system, we need to look at the teachers. Many of these folks are rocks. They (whoever they are) need to relook the teachers unions. They also need to look at the instruction. I think the music and art programs, especially the music are not bad things, especially if ur kid can get a world class education for playing a the, further down the road. If teachers want raises, make them profomance or bonus based. U could start pilot programs in highschool for kids excepted to college  etc. I also don't want more standarized tests, the results are bogus and teachers teach to the test to avoid getting canned.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Hedgehog on September 28, 2009, 06:53:54 PM
We also got to realise facts. not all people are made out to be teachers. which means that a certain percentage after a long education will still not be fit to stand in front of a group of kids. could be a number of things. insecurity, or whatever.
But there has to be a better way to deal with persons like this today than to keep them as bad teachers.
some could get into school book publishing, some into research. other find a New job. but keeping them as bad teachers is just a disservice to all
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: doison on September 28, 2009, 07:13:02 PM
The smart kids self-study over the summer anyway. 
The dumb kids won't pay attention whether or not they're in school over the summer months. 

It does nothing but give bitter people the chance to claim "good!  these damned kids need to learn what it's like in the real world!" 
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: tonymctones on September 28, 2009, 09:03:22 PM
Me too bro!  Kids need to do physical labor to build character.  Kids need to be taught that not everything comes at the push of a button or the swipe of a credit card.  There are actual people out there that work to produce things in this country.  Maybe part of their year round schooling kids should have to spend their 3 months summer vacation working on a farm, a ranch, or doing some sort of physical labor like construction.  Blood sweat and tears!  I'm not about to say kids should spend 3 months doing community service i.e. serving their government but some program that's mandatory like the Boy Scouts or some other system wouldn't be a bad idea.  But this nonsense that kids should spend another 3 months in a feminized class room listening to some teacher tell them what they think they need to know to be another groomed corporate slave......no way. 
agreed, honestly doing manual labor brings a different perspective into your life.

It also gives you the desire to work harder so that you wont have to do manual labor for the rest of your life.

I don't see any reason we can't increase the school year and still promote the great ideas posted in this thread.  Something like 240's 10 weeks on 2 weeks off sounds like a good start.

Vacations with kids?  You'll still be able to take them.
Hard work?  Hell yea you guys are right.  They should.  I think we've all happened upon the college kid who thinks he's entitled to 100K/yr starting and a personal blackberry.  But, hard work can also be fit into a modified schedule.

I think Hedge is right though.  Although there's a lot to be said about hard work, working SMARTER, is what's going to get these kids ahead in our society.  It doesn't matter how well I lay the foundation of my porch, it's how I manipulate database variables that's going to get me the promotion at work.
I agree with this too, but lets fix the problems in the system before we simply add more time in a shitty system. I dont like the idea of 9 hour school days i mean come the shit on  ::).
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 28, 2009, 09:06:05 PM
Wow..I even agree with the morons I can't stand, on this one. All good ideas.

LMAO!

Finally all of getbig comes together.
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: 240 is Back on September 28, 2009, 09:08:54 PM
Teachers work 3 years and they are guaranteed a job for 30 years.

They get tenure and then can only be removed for major infractions.

I can enter the teaching arena tomorrow with my MBA and teaching degree, and some half-wit teacher with no classroom control and shitty scores is guaranteed the job first.

teachers love tenure... but it's very rare in the 'real' world.  Should administrators have the abilty to hure younger, more effective (and cheaper) teachers?  Or make them keep those making 2x the salary who just don't have the energy to do it effectively anymore?

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: MCWAY on September 29, 2009, 06:20:44 AM
Public education is one of the most inefficient entities in our society.  If I was a parent I could teach my kid more in 3 months of summer vacation than they would probably get in 3 months of school.  That's the entire point of summer vacation.  Families going on trips together, fathers and mothers spending time with their children teaching them things they may not necessarily learn in school.  And let's face it kids need to learn a lot more about the things they aren't learning in school nowadays like courtesy, respect, relationships, how to change the car in their oil, etc.  

Plus some kids actually have to fucking work during the summer to pay for shit.  Obama is a fucking out of touch douchebag like most politicians. 

A lot of parents feel that way, which is why the homeschooling has increased DRASTICALLY over the last several years. It can be a good option for those who are disgusted with public schools yet can’t afford to send their kids to private schools.

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on September 29, 2009, 06:23:14 AM
I was "home schooled" for a while, worked out well, I also went to a Christian School that was light years ahead of the public school I previously attended.

How do Children who are home schooled through High School earn a diploma though?  ???
Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: MCWAY on September 29, 2009, 07:32:12 AM
I was "home schooled" for a while, worked out well, I also went to a Christian School that was light years ahead of the public school I previously attended.

How do Children who are home schooled through High School earn a diploma though?  ???

These are the rules, at least in the state of Florida.

My student is home schooled, how does he receive a high school diploma?

Home School students may not receive a diploma from their school district, adult
high schools or community colleges. However, a home education student may elect
to take the General Education Development (GED) test and be awarded a Florida
High School diploma from the State of Florida Education Department, if the student
receives a passing score. Alternatively, some home school students enroll with an
umbrella school, which will oversee their home schooling and issue them a diploma,
if applicable to their institution. There are many accountability measures to consider
when using these types of schools, please refer to www.fpea.com for more
information.


http://www.flvs.net/Students/Documents/FLVS_Complete_HomeEd_Guide.pdf (http://www.flvs.net/Students/Documents/FLVS_Complete_HomeEd_Guide.pdf)

Some homeschoolers register with an "umbrella" school, usually a private Christian school. That school will also let homeschooled students "march" with their kids during their graduation ceremony.

Title: Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on September 29, 2009, 07:35:03 AM
These are the rules, at least in the state of Florida.

My student is home schooled, how does he receive a high school diploma?

Home School students may not receive a diploma from their school district, adult
high schools or community colleges. However, a home education student may elect
to take the General Education Development (GED) test and be awarded a Florida
High School diploma from the State of Florida Education Department, if the student
receives a passing score. Alternatively, some home school students enroll with an
umbrella school, which will oversee their home schooling and issue them a diploma,
if applicable to their institution. There are many accountability measures to consider
when using these types of schools, please refer to www.fpea.com for more
information.


http://www.flvs.net/Students/Documents/FLVS_Complete_HomeEd_Guide.pdf (http://www.flvs.net/Students/Documents/FLVS_Complete_HomeEd_Guide.pdf)

Some homeschoolers register with an "umbrella" school, usually a private Christian school. That school will also let homeschooled students "march" with their kids during their graduation ceremony.



Oh I see, thanks for the info!