Author Topic: I fully support the POTUS here!!  (Read 3004 times)

Skip8282

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I fully support the POTUS here!!
« on: September 27, 2009, 07:20:15 PM »
 :D

Anybody else think this is a good idea?

-----------

More school: Obama would curtail summer vacation


By LIBBY QUAID
WASHINGTON - Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.

But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.

Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.

"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."

Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.

Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?

---

Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.

"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."

While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests - Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).

---

Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.

Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.

"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."

In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.

Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.

In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics - kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.

Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.

Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.

Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.

Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.

That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.

Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.

"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.

Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.

The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.

Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs.

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."


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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2009, 07:26:37 PM »
As a former teacher, I can tell you it's a GREAT IDEA in my opinion.  Kids lose so much info and skill over the summer.  Quarter 1 of each year is just dedicated to review of last year.

I think the old breakdown (same 180 day schedule) is something like 45 days in school, 15 days of vacation...(5 days a week)  Or, 9 weeks of school, followed by 3 weeks of vacation. 

tonymctones

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2009, 07:45:52 PM »
yes and no the system itself is pretty shitty right now adding more time in a shitty system will not produce the effects we are seeking.

I really dont think keeping kids in school for 9 hours a day is the answer I say make the 7 hours more efficient and get rid of some useless shit.

I wouldnt mind a less of a summer break but i just think 9 hours a day of school is just to much...

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2009, 07:55:12 PM »
yes and no the system itself is pretty shitty right now adding more time in a shitty system will not produce the effects we are seeking.

I really dont think keeping kids in school for 9 hours a day is the answer I say make the 7 hours more efficient and get rid of some useless shit.

I wouldnt mind a less of a summer break but i just think 9 hours a day of school is just to much...

10 weeks on, 2 weeks off might be a better split.  Plus christmas, thanksgiving and spring breaks.

What do you define as useless sh*t, tony? 

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2009, 08:23:08 PM »
10 weeks on, 2 weeks off might be a better split.  Plus christmas, thanksgiving and spring breaks.

What do you define as useless sh*t, tony? 
I dont really like that either man if they kids all got the same 2 weeks off ok that would be ok but the year round bs isnt cool

This are still kids and they need to have a life outside of school imho

tons of shit, teaching toward exams instead of simply teaching, I think more of an emphasis on math would be a good thing less so on english that might just be me though, ignorant shit like black history month extra curricular activities.

Perhaps raise the standards of extra curricular to like a 3.0 GPA


brooklynbruiser

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2009, 08:24:37 PM »
I think Mr. POTUS needs to prioritize and the media stop with the sensational headlines. Figure out if we will even have money to pay these teachers first, eh? :)
Almost always, yes.

tonymctones

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2009, 08:33:43 PM »
Also i think most of the shit that is taught in a year can be taught in half the time enabling you to get twice as much in.

The whole no child left behind BS screws ppl and that mind set in general screws ppl set up time after school for those struggling shit you could even make it mandetory.

BUT DONT slow down the learning process of others for the sake of one or two teach to the class's level not the ones who have trouble and then tutor after school.

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2009, 08:37:30 PM »
i taught from 98 til 2004.  gr 3, 4, 5, then k-8 computer.  then adult education.

and before 'no child', teachers could literally teach anything they wanted.  if they didn't understand a chapter in a math book, they could skip it.

From what i can tell.... 'no child' wasn't about the kids... it was about getting the teachers to use a uniform curriculum.  Many old-timers were offended 'the govt is trying to tell us what to teach!"  But they were all doing diff stuff.

They 'teach to the test' now - but it means they're teaching the same 5 strands of curriculum now. 

tonymctones

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2009, 08:43:56 PM »
i taught from 98 til 2004.  gr 3, 4, 5, then k-8 computer.  then adult education.

and before 'no child', teachers could literally teach anything they wanted.  if they didn't understand a chapter in a math book, they could skip it.

From what i can tell.... 'no child' wasn't about the kids... it was about getting the teachers to use a uniform curriculum.  Many old-timers were offended 'the govt is trying to tell us what to teach!"  But they were all doing diff stuff.

They 'teach to the test' now - but it means they're teaching the same 5 strands of curriculum now. 
Man I remember back in high school we would have specific classes set aside to get us ready for tests. I mean seriously we should have this shit covered in regular class and if you dont get it like I said after school tutoring.

I understand wanting to be told what to do or how to teach I think giving guidelines of what needs to be taught and then letting teachers decide how they teach it is best. Then let the teachers teach what they deem necessary in the time left over.

My school actually taught toward the tests 240 not specific curriculum I mean like I said they had classes set aside specifically for test prep that everyone had to attend.

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2009, 08:52:14 PM »
the system itself is pretty shitty right now adding more time in a shitty system will not produce the effects we are seeking.



This.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2009, 11:03:18 PM »
S

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2009, 11:23:53 PM »
One thing I heard the other day that was kind of interesting. This teacher and scientist suggested to stop with the homeworks and assignments. His reason was that we as adults always says 'don't bring your job home'. but with our kids, it's supposedly a good thing.
he further argued that the best place to study is in the school and that's where professionals are able to assist.
It made me change my mind a little bit.
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tonymctones

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2009, 11:44:02 PM »
One thing I heard the other day that was kind of interesting. This teacher and scientist suggested to stop with the homeworks and assignments. His reason was that we as adults always says 'don't bring your job home'. but with our kids, it's supposedly a good thing.
he further argued that the best place to study is in the school and that's where professionals are able to assist.
It made me change my mind a little bit.

Ill agree with that part most ppl cant study at home myself included

MM2K

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2009, 01:18:27 AM »
Meeehhhh, he needs to get his priorities straight. Whatever the merits or demerits of the length of the schoolyear, it is the least of our education problems.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2009, 04:41:03 AM »
This.

This is another idiotic idea that has huge implications none of you are considering. 

In most states, school education is financed by primarily by local sales and property taxes. 

Additionally, most teachers and people who work for the education system are unionized and under contract.

Mandating more hours like Dear Leader is saying will only cause these contracts to be broken and massive tax increases needed to fund this. 

Adding to the tax burden is not the answer to the problems in education.       

pedro01

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2009, 05:20:32 AM »
School holidays bring back a flood of happy childhood memories to me. Playing soccer in the park with my pals, goofing around, a holiday with my family. They were 6 weeks but they seemed to last forever.

It would be a sad day indeed when that is taken away from kids.

I managed to learn at school, find good work, start a business. I can't see how more time in that boring fucking classroom would have done anything for me.

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2009, 05:31:21 AM »
School holidays bring back a flood of happy childhood memories to me. Playing soccer in the park with my pals, goofing around, a holiday with my family. They were 6 weeks but they seemed to last forever.

It would be a sad day indeed when that is taken away from kids.

I managed to learn at school, find good work, start a business. I can't see how more time in that boring fucking classroom would have done anything for me.

The issue is what is going on during the day.     

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2009, 05:48:00 AM »
School holidays bring back a flood of happy childhood memories to me. Playing soccer in the park with my pals, goofing around, a holiday with my family. They were 6 weeks but they seemed to last forever.

It would be a sad day indeed when that is taken away from kids.

I managed to learn at school, find good work, start a business. I can't see how more time in that boring fucking classroom would have done anything for me.

This is just opinion on this matter but:

From what I can tell most teachers are women and themselves not the top of their graduating classes, especially in the subject matter that they are teaching.  Most of these women are dealing with unruly brats and have little ability to really run a tight ship where learning is the primary focus.  Many have little support from admn and upper levels to discipline kids and, from what I can tell, are encouraged to inflate grades and simply teach to mandatory tests so their school passes certain evaluations, etc.

Additionally, and probably most importantly, is that schools are not teaching and concentrating on the basics. 

Reading, Writing, Math. 

Those subjects are the foundation for everything else, not global warming, slavery, etc.

The entire education process seems very diluted IMHO where a lot of these students know a little about a lot of subjects, but are proficient in none.         

 


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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 06:19:14 AM »
Great more time to teach kids to sing "barack hussein Obama hmm,hmm,hm".Super.

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 06:22:45 AM »
:D

Anybody else think this is a good idea?

-----------

More school: Obama would curtail summer vacation


By LIBBY QUAID
WASHINGTON - Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.

But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.

Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.

"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."

Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.

Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?

---

Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.

"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."

While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests - Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).

---

Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.

Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.

"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."

In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.

Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.

In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics - kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.

Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.

Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.

Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.

Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.

That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.

Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.

"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.

Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.

The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.

Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs.

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."



There goes the youth vote for 2012 for Obama!!

 ;D

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2009, 06:41:41 AM »
when you cut art and music, studies have shown performance in math and writing drop in a major way.  One of huckabee's major major platforms in 2007 when he went on Imus and got his ball rolling for 2008.

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2009, 06:47:13 AM »
when you cut art and music, studies have shown performance in math and writing drop in a major way.  One of huckabee's major major platforms in 2007 when he went on Imus and got his ball rolling for 2008.

I am not an expert on this situation, however, it seems to me that with the all the "advancements" in education, things have been getting worse. 

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2009, 07:01:36 AM »
I am not an expert on this situation, however, it seems to me that with the all the "advancements" in education, things have been getting worse. 

we're doing better than we did 30 years ago, to be sure.  It's just that the rest of the world has advanced much more. 

our school system isn't terrible.  it's just too laid back, that's all.  Changing the schedule might alleviate that a bit.  without that 11 week gap every summer (and the lag time before and after it), focus and retention might be better.

parents know how much time their kids waste each summer.  If summer break suddenly changed into 4 mini-breaks, retention at the very least would skyrocket.

I'm down for trying the idea in some districts and seeing how performance changes.  I'm sure it will increase. it'll just be a matter of whether or not it's worth it with other issues that arise. 


contracts are haywire right now anyway.  every year they are battling cause budget $ aren't there.  no more yearly raises, and new teachers... whew... no work for ya!

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2009, 07:12:00 AM »
when you cut art and music, studies have shown performance in math and writing drop in a major way.  One of huckabee's major major platforms in 2007 when he went on Imus and got his ball rolling for 2008.

There should be ZERO art and music.Its a total waste of time.Hukabee is a little girl.Id rather have them give more time for recess so kids can play sports then learn to play some faggy musical instrument.

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Re: I fully support the POTUS here!!
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2009, 07:17:03 AM »
There should be ZERO art and music.Its a total waste of time.Hukabee is a little ####.Id rather have them give more time for recess so kids can play sports then learn to play some faggy musical instrument.

A lot of creative processes develop from art and music that contribute to success in writing and math problem solving.