This might help quell one's fears.....
Physicists Will Not Destroy the World!
Why we need not worry
about the Large Hadron Collider
by Lawrence Krauss
LLOYD B. LUEPTOW’S ARTICLE on the “Large Hadron Collider and the Threats of Catastrophe” clearly illustrates how science is different than sociology. The author seems to think that by doing a literature search and quoting every possible source and every possible viewpoint that he will get closer to scientific truth. However, that is simply not how science works. One doesn’t do a democratic weighting of the literature.
Rather, in science one applies logic (usually mathematical in form) to ideas that are constrained by experiment and observation. Nature, not a majority vote, determines what is false and what is not.
Instead one sees here a substitution of a comprehensive reference list, without filtering based on knowledge, for sound thinking. The result is a silly argument about why we should never perform experiments whose results we are not certain about beforehand — a recipe for ending scientific discovery.
Now, to specifics.
It doesn’t matter to me that Dr. Otto E. Rossler has 300 publications to his credit. Does he have any demonstrated expertise in particle theory, quantum gravity, or general relativity? I could not find any. Rossler’s estimates are not based on standard quantum gravitational or general relativistic calculations.
Lueptow misrepresents misplaced concerns of a few individuals with real controversy within the scientific community … the same misconception that has clouded public understanding of evolutionary biology and global warming. To my knowledge, no credible expert has expressed concern about the LHC.
Cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth and moon with thousands of times more energy than the particles at the LHC will have, and we have survived for 4.5 billion years. For those who are somehow concerned that the LHC will produce such particles in the center of mass frame, whereas collisions in the moon will not be in the center of mass, allowing any collision products to travel forward and thereby somehow miraculously make it all the way through the moon without stopping, similar arguments apply to unbelievably dense neutron stars, almost certain to capture any collision products. These are observed to exist for at least hundreds of millions, if not billions of years. This empirical evidence obviates any concerns about what might happen at the LHC.
Ordinary mini-black holes cannot be produced at the LHC unless a host of (unlikely) new physics, involving dramatic modifications of gravity and the existence of other large dimensions is the case. Not only is this possibility very remote, but even if it were true, the same quantum processes that might produce such microscopic black holes would allow them to decay by quantum processes. While it is true that our understanding of the latter stages of black hole evaporation is spotty at the present time, what is true is that precisely the same calculations that suggest the remote possibility that miniblack holes might be produced at the LHC also would imply that these behave like elementary particles and also decay quickly. If they are wrong, then the black holes will not be produced anyway.
Estimates produced in speculative papers should not be taken as assertions. Savas Dimopoulos, for example, who is quoted as saying that one mini-black hole will be produced each second, was performing calculations that explored various hypothetical possibilities. Moreover, it should be noted that Prof. Dimopoulos has never argued that the mini-black hole that might conceivably be produced if these speculative ideas were correct would be anything but exotic curiosities to be explored at accelerators, and not earth-destroying monsters.
The Tevatron at Fermilab is already operating at energies within a factor of 5 of the LHC, and we are still around. This provides additional evidence that a catastrophe at the LHC is unlikely.
The discussion of strangelets is irrelevant. The scientific community examined this possibility before the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven turned on, and decided there was no danger, and years after it did turn on, we are still here.
Science is not carried out by debates between teams. The community is open, and all ideas are considered, and those that survive the test of time, and experiment, rise to the top. The great thing about science is that we don’t have to continue to follow both sides of an argument, because ultimately one side is generally proved to be wrong.
The author clearly has another confusion that is common. The fact that there is much we do not know about the universe at its extremes of scale does not imply that there is little we do know. We can use our existing knowledge to reliably constrain the range of phenomena that can happen at the LHC
Finally, there will always be some uncertainty in any experiment we perform where we are opening a new window on nature. But to suggest that we close all windows and shutter all doors to rational inquiry, whether the subject is particle physics or genetic engineering is a recipe for disaster. We need to keep an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall out.
This might help quell one's fears.....
Physicists Will Not Destroy the World!
Why we need not worry
about the Large Hadron Collider
by Lawrence Krauss
LLOYD B. LUEPTOW’S ARTICLE on the “Large Hadron Collider and the Threats of Catastrophe” clearly illustrates how science is different than sociology. The author seems to think that by doing a literature search and quoting every possible source and every possible viewpoint that he will get closer to scientific truth. However, that is simply not how science works. One doesn’t do a democratic weighting of the literature.
Rather, in science one applies logic (usually mathematical in form) to ideas that are constrained by experiment and observation. Nature, not a majority vote, determines what is false and what is not.
Instead one sees here a substitution of a comprehensive reference list, without filtering based on knowledge, for sound thinking. The result is a silly argument about why we should never perform experiments whose results we are not certain about beforehand — a recipe for ending scientific discovery.
Now, to specifics.
It doesn’t matter to me that Dr. Otto E. Rossler has 300 publications to his credit. Does he have any demonstrated expertise in particle theory, quantum gravity, or general relativity? I could not find any. Rossler’s estimates are not based on standard quantum gravitational or general relativistic calculations.
Lueptow misrepresents misplaced concerns of a few individuals with real controversy within the scientific community … the same misconception that has clouded public understanding of evolutionary biology and global warming. To my knowledge, no credible expert has expressed concern about the LHC.
Cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth and moon with thousands of times more energy than the particles at the LHC will have, and we have survived for 4.5 billion years. For those who are somehow concerned that the LHC will produce such particles in the center of mass frame, whereas collisions in the moon will not be in the center of mass, allowing any collision products to travel forward and thereby somehow miraculously make it all the way through the moon without stopping, similar arguments apply to unbelievably dense neutron stars, almost certain to capture any collision products. These are observed to exist for at least hundreds of millions, if not billions of years. This empirical evidence obviates any concerns about what might happen at the LHC.
Ordinary mini-black holes cannot be produced at the LHC unless a host of (unlikely) new physics, involving dramatic modifications of gravity and the existence of other large dimensions is the case. Not only is this possibility very remote, but even if it were true, the same quantum processes that might produce such microscopic black holes would allow them to decay by quantum processes. While it is true that our understanding of the latter stages of black hole evaporation is spotty at the present time, what is true is that precisely the same calculations that suggest the remote possibility that miniblack holes might be produced at the LHC also would imply that these behave like elementary particles and also decay quickly. If they are wrong, then the black holes will not be produced anyway.
Estimates produced in speculative papers should not be taken as assertions. Savas Dimopoulos, for example, who is quoted as saying that one mini-black hole will be produced each second, was performing calculations that explored various hypothetical possibilities. Moreover, it should be noted that Prof. Dimopoulos has never argued that the mini-black hole that might conceivably be produced if these speculative ideas were correct would be anything but exotic curiosities to be explored at accelerators, and not earth-destroying monsters.
The Tevatron at Fermilab is already operating at energies within a factor of 5 of the LHC, and we are still around. This provides additional evidence that a catastrophe at the LHC is unlikely.
The discussion of strangelets is irrelevant. The scientific community examined this possibility before the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven turned on, and decided there was no danger, and years after it did turn on, we are still here.
Science is not carried out by debates between teams. The community is open, and all ideas are considered, and those that survive the test of time, and experiment, rise to the top. The great thing about science is that we don’t have to continue to follow both sides of an argument, because ultimately one side is generally proved to be wrong.
The author clearly has another confusion that is common. The fact that there is much we do not know about the universe at its extremes of scale does not imply that there is little we do know. We can use our existing knowledge to reliably constrain the range of phenomena that can happen at the LHC
Finally, there will always be some uncertainty in any experiment we perform where we are opening a new window on nature. But to suggest that we close all windows and shutter all doors to rational inquiry, whether the subject is particle physics or genetic engineering is a recipe for disaster. We need to keep an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall out.
Keep in mind LHC is EXPERIMENTAL and is dealing with the UNKNOWN. This device not only has a frightening look to it (sort of like an mechanical octopus), it reminds me of the movie FRANKENSTEIN... and just like THE MONSTER it was an experiment that ended up going ALL WRONG even though Dr. Frankenstein thought everything was under control and nothing could/would happen. His own experiment/science/monster ended up causing his death and massive destuction. Well the LHC is more than THE MONSTER...much more. Not only is this dealing with the unknown the theoretical potential of creating black holes, unknown energy fields, Anti matter, abberations of all types should make anyone second guess messing around with it. I am surprised the French and Swiss people are so calm about this thing starting up again given its potential. COuld France and Switzerland etc be wiped off the map as though a many mega ton atomic blast had happened in Europe? The potential is there. I just personally think it is something best left alone.