Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: musclecenter on December 10, 2009, 12:49:07 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em)
Bodybuilders See Kidney Damage With Steroids
By KATIE THOMAS
Published: December 9, 2009
Many competitive bodybuilders take anabolic steroids to achieve their freakishly exaggerated physiques. That is no secret. But steroids can be only one part of an extreme regimen that can wreak havoc on the body.
Human growth hormone, supplements, painkillers and diuretics can also be used to create the “shrink-wrapped” muscles so prized in the aesthetic. And the high concentration of muscle mass puts stress on the body, as if the lifter were obese.
Lifting weights in the gym is “extremely healthy for you,” said Kenneth Wheeler, a former elite bodybuilder known as Flex. “But if you want to be a bodybuilder and compete at the highest level, it has nothing to do with health.” A relatively rare form of kidney disease forced Wheeler to retire in 2003 at age 37, and he needed a kidney transplant later that year.
Determining the extent of the damage that bodybuilders inflict on themselves is difficult, in part because there is little interest in financing studies on such an extreme group, and because bodybuilders are not always honest about what they take. That is why a case study published last month by a top kidney journal is generating interest in the nephrology and bodybuilding communities. It is among the first to assert a direct link between long-term steroid use and kidney disease.
The study began 10 years ago when a kidney pathologist at Columbia University Medical Center in New York noticed that a bodybuilder had an advanced form of kidney disease. Curious, she started looking for similar cases and eventually studied 10 men with serious kidney damage who acknowledged using steroids. Nine were bodybuilders and one was a competitive powerlifter with a similar training routine.
All 10 men in the case series, published in November by the Journal of the American Society of Nephrology, showed damage to the filters of the kidney. Nine had an irreversible disease known as focal segmental glomerulosclerosis — the same disease contracted by Wheeler — even though the men in the study did not have other apparent risk factors. Their disease was worse than in obese patients with a higher body-mass index, suggesting that steroids — combined with the other practices — might be harming the kidneys.
Among the study’s most persuasive details is the story of a man, 30 years old at the time, who damaged his kidneys after more than a decade of bodybuilding. The patient’s condition improved after he stopped using the drugs, discontinued his regimen and lost 80 pounds. But it worsened after the man, who became depressed, returned to bodybuilding and steroids.
“These patients are likely the tip of the iceberg,” said Vivette D. D’Agati, the lead researcher. “It’s a risk. A significant risk.”
Several experts not affiliated with the study said that while the claims were intriguing, the study’s value was limited because it focused only on intensive steroid users and because the bodybuilders’ layered training practices had to be taken into account. “I think it’s hard to be certain what’s causing their kidney disease,” said William Bremner, chairman of the Department of Medicine at the University of Washington and an endocrinologist who studies steroids.
D’Agati said, “It’s probably multiple factors that are converging in these patients, but the common entity in all of them is anabolic steroids.”
One participant in the study, Patrick Antonecchia, 46, competed in powerlifting and strong man events for more than 25 years and said he used steroids, supplements and a high-protein diet to attain feats such as pulling a 40,000-pound truck. He ended his career and stopped using steroids about a year ago, and in February received a diagnosis of serious kidney damage. His doctors warned him not to use the drugs again. “They said: ‘Pat. Don’t. Because it comes back,’ ” he said.
Antonecchia has lost about 50 pounds and said he misses the attention his 290-pound frame attracted: “The toughest thing now is it was my identity for 25 years. Now, when people see me, they say, ‘What happened to you?’ ”
Jerry Brainum writes a column for Iron Man Magazine called Bodybuilding Pharmacology and said he welcomes more research on the subject. “I found it very alarming, quite frankly,” Brainum said.
Since the 1990s, at least eight accomplished bodybuilders have died at a young age, and in addition to Wheeler, another six were forced to stop competing because of serious illness, often involving kidney disease.
The main source of information for bodybuilders is word of mouth and experimentation, Brainum said. “These guys have no guidance, they talk among themselves, and they don’t even tell the truth to each other,” he said.
The risk-taking has been made worse by a trend toward ever larger physiques among the sport’s top competitors, some said. Jay Cutler, who won the 2009 Mr. Olympia contest, weighs almost 40 pounds more than Arnold Schwarzenegger did when he won the title in 1974, even though Cutler is five inches shorter.
“Each decade you have a guy that comes along that sets new standards and you say O.K., now I’m going to have to take it to the next level,” said Shahriar Kamali, a professional bodybuilder known as King.
The International Federation of Body Building and Fitness reserves the right to test for steroids and human growth hormone at the professional level, and testing is done on a random basis, said Bob Cicherillo, athlete representative for the federation, which is the main governing body for bodybuilding.
But several bodybuilders said the testing was nearly nonexistent, and Cicherillo said he could not provide specific figures on competitors who tested positive. In addition, the chairman of the organization’s medical commission, Robert M. Goldman, is a leading champion of the anti-aging effects of human growth hormone, a drug that is banned by most sports governing bodies.
James Manion, who runs the professional division of the federation, did not return several calls seeking comment.
Some bodybuilders expressed doubt that their practices were dangerous, pointing to former competitors who are still healthy in their 70s. They attributed the deaths of elite bodybuilders to the abuse of over-the-counter painkillers and diuretics, not steroids. The bodybuilding federation tests for diuretics at professional events, although competitors said they are still used.
Bodybuilders said that they were unfairly singled out as drug abusers when athletes in most other sports were also using performance-enhancing drugs. “Like anything else, it’s use and abuse,” Cicherillo said. “We’re the ones who are visual. We’re the ones who walk around, and you see us with the big muscles.”
Wheeler said he was convinced steroid use did not cause his kidney disease, although it might have made it worse.
The patient whose case was the centerpiece of the kidney study said he was most likely predisposed to develop the condition. “The drugs weren’t the reason I got sick,” said the man, who declined to be identified because his steroid use was illegal. After taking a year off from steroids and bodybuilding because of the kidney disease, the man, age 34, is returning to competition. His symptoms have worsened, a sacrifice he said he is willing to accept.
“It’s just really hard to walk away from it,” he said. “I know I can only do this until my early 40s, so I really want to give it my all now.”
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haha, king kamai, flex, bob..........it's a who's who of bb'ing. :o
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People can't get enough of muscle. Regardless if they like it or not, they'll look.
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Good article there. 8)
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kamali failed on taking it to the next level though :'(
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Good article there. 8)
this article show the average people's viewpoint I think.
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this article show the average people's viewpoint I think.
Yep - average people are never going to accept bodybuilding unless steroids themselves are glamorised or accepted - which is never going to happen.
Bodybuilding belongs as an underground subculture and fans of bodybuilding who want it to become more mainstream need to accept that it's going to have to stay that way, certainly in our lifetime.
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good. at least now we guys stand out from the crowd with our fit bodies. it shouldnt become popular.
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Yeah, I was hoping this would be a fluff piece on Jay's comeback and Kai's rise. Why they getting all negative?
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this article show the average people's viewpoint I think.
yeah, why bother listening to educated doctors...pay attention to the meathead poking himself in the ass, shoulders, and legs--filled with abscesses, backne, hairloss, limp dick, and a pocketful of schmoe money...keep living that dream fellas.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em)
The International Federation of Body Building and Fitness reserves the right to test for steroids and human growth hormone at the professional level, and testing is done on a random basis, said Bob Cicherillo, athlete representative for the federation, which is the main governing body for bodybuilding.
:D
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"The International Federation of Body Building and Fitness reserves the right to test for steroids and human growth hormone at the professional level, and testing is done on a random basis, said Bob Cicherillo, athlete representative for the federation, which is the main governing body for bodybuilding."
Just look at all the people that get in trouble each year from the random testing... ::)
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Typical Chick.....dodge the question and sidestep
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Hahahaha, salami got punked, they wouldn't address him as 'king' they used 'shahriar'
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fucking chick should run for public office...
bullshit,bullshit, bullshit, ifbb, bullshit, bullshit, signs my paychecks...we run, bullshit, a clean, bullshit, bullshit, federation...just ask papa joe.
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This study is so flawed and skewed is not even funny. Where is the other study to accompany it whwere they test 10 other people who have never touched steroids to see how many of them suffer the same consequences? I gave much info to the writer, of course, she decided to omit most of it that raises more questions, and facts like a high protein diet, pain relievers, diet, etc arent even taken into consideration.
It's HYPERTENTION that causes stress to the kidneys, ultimately...that can be a result of weight gain, or a myriad of other reasons...not necessarily steroids. Not saying they may not contribute to the cause, but to try and link them DIRECTLY is disingenous.
Most probable, it's a combination of many factors that can contribute to kidney problems...the LEAST significant, is steroids.
Classic mainstream journalism...
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and advil..remember advil!
:o
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em)
Bodybuilders See Kidney Damage With Steroids
By KATIE THOMAS
Published: December 9, 2009
Many competitive bodybuilders take anabolic steroids to achieve their freakishly exaggerated physiques. That is no secret. But steroids can be only one part of an extreme regimen that can wreak havoc on the body.
Human growth hormone, supplements, painkillers and diuretics can also be used to create the “shrink-wrapped” muscles so prized in the aesthetic. And the high concentration of muscle mass puts stress on the body, as if the lifter were obese.
Lifting weights in the gym is “extremely healthy for you,” said Kenneth Wheeler, a former elite bodybuilder known as Flex. “But if you want to be a bodybuilder and compete at the highest level, it has nothing to do with health.” A relatively rare form of kidney disease forced Wheeler to retire in 2003 at age 37, and he needed a kidney transplant later that year.
Determining the extent of the damage that bodybuilders inflict on themselves is difficult, in part because there is little interest in financing studies on such an extreme group, and because bodybuilders are not always honest about what they take. That is why a case study published last month by a top kidney journal is generating interest in the nephrology and bodybuilding communities. It is among the first to assert a direct link between long-term steroid use and kidney disease.
The study began 10 years ago when a kidney pathologist at Columbia University Medical Center in New York noticed that a bodybuilder had an advanced form of kidney disease. Curious, she started looking for similar cases and eventually studied 10 men with serious kidney damage who acknowledged using steroids. Nine were bodybuilders and one was a competitive powerlifter with a similar training routine.
All 10 men in the case series, published in November by the Journal of the American Society of Nephrology, showed damage to the filters of the kidney. Nine had an irreversible disease known as focal segmental glomerulosclerosis — the same disease contracted by Wheeler — even though the men in the study did not have other apparent risk factors. Their disease was worse than in obese patients with a higher body-mass index, suggesting that steroids — combined with the other practices — might be harming the kidneys.
Among the study’s most persuasive details is the story of a man, 30 years old at the time, who damaged his kidneys after more than a decade of bodybuilding. The patient’s condition improved after he stopped using the drugs, discontinued his regimen and lost 80 pounds. But it worsened after the man, who became depressed, returned to bodybuilding and steroids.
“These patients are likely the tip of the iceberg,” said Vivette D. D’Agati, the lead researcher. “It’s a risk. A significant risk.”
Several experts not affiliated with the study said that while the claims were intriguing, the study’s value was limited because it focused only on intensive steroid users and because the bodybuilders’ layered training practices had to be taken into account. “I think it’s hard to be certain what’s causing their kidney disease,” said William Bremner, chairman of the Department of Medicine at the University of Washington and an endocrinologist who studies steroids.
D’Agati said, “It’s probably multiple factors that are converging in these patients, but the common entity in all of them is anabolic steroids.”
One participant in the study, Patrick Antonecchia, 46, competed in powerlifting and strong man events for more than 25 years and said he used steroids, supplements and a high-protein diet to attain feats such as pulling a 40,000-pound truck. He ended his career and stopped using steroids about a year ago, and in February received a diagnosis of serious kidney damage. His doctors warned him not to use the drugs again. “They said: ‘Pat. Don’t. Because it comes back,’ ” he said.
Antonecchia has lost about 50 pounds and said he misses the attention his 290-pound frame attracted: “The toughest thing now is it was my identity for 25 years. Now, when people see me, they say, ‘What happened to you?’ ”
Jerry Brainum writes a column for Iron Man Magazine called Bodybuilding Pharmacology and said he welcomes more research on the subject. “I found it very alarming, quite frankly,” Brainum said.
Since the 1990s, at least eight accomplished bodybuilders have died at a young age, and in addition to Wheeler, another six were forced to stop competing because of serious illness, often involving kidney disease.
The main source of information for bodybuilders is word of mouth and experimentation, Brainum said. “These guys have no guidance, they talk among themselves, and they don’t even tell the truth to each other,” he said.
The risk-taking has been made worse by a trend toward ever larger physiques among the sport’s top competitors, some said. Jay Cutler, who won the 2009 Mr. Olympia contest, weighs almost 40 pounds more than Arnold Schwarzenegger did when he won the title in 1974, even though Cutler is five inches shorter.
“Each decade you have a guy that comes along that sets new standards and you say O.K., now I’m going to have to take it to the next level,” said Shahriar Kamali, a professional bodybuilder known as King.
The International Federation of Body Building and Fitness reserves the right to test for steroids and human growth hormone at the professional level, and testing is done on a random basis, said Bob Cicherillo, athlete representative for the federation, which is the main governing body for bodybuilding.
But several bodybuilders said the testing was nearly nonexistent, and Cicherillo said he could not provide specific figures on competitors who tested positive. In addition, the chairman of the organization’s medical commission, Robert M. Goldman, is a leading champion of the anti-aging effects of human growth hormone, a drug that is banned by most sports governing bodies.
James Manion, who runs the professional division of the federation, did not return several calls seeking comment.
Some bodybuilders expressed doubt that their practices were dangerous, pointing to former competitors who are still healthy in their 70s. They attributed the deaths of elite bodybuilders to the abuse of over-the-counter painkillers and diuretics, not steroids. The bodybuilding federation tests for diuretics at professional events, although competitors said they are still used.
Bodybuilders said that they were unfairly singled out as drug abusers when athletes in most other sports were also using performance-enhancing drugs. “Like anything else, it’s use and abuse,” Cicherillo said. “We’re the ones who are visual. We’re the ones who walk around, and you see us with the big muscles.”
Wheeler said he was convinced steroid use did not cause his kidney disease, although it might have made it worse.
The patient whose case was the centerpiece of the kidney study said he was most likely predisposed to develop the condition. “The drugs weren’t the reason I got sick,” said the man, who declined to be identified because his steroid use was illegal. After taking a year off from steroids and bodybuilding because of the kidney disease, the man, age 34, is returning to competition. His symptoms have worsened, a sacrifice he said he is willing to accept.
“It’s just really hard to walk away from it,” he said. “I know I can only do this until my early 40s, so I really want to give it my all now.”
as i posted earlier the first twelve mr america's aau died at an average age of 78.3 years well above the avg age of death at the time. the next twelve died at just 58.9 years of age well below the national average at the time . your call?
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note the lack of roid gut in mr grimek pictured above.
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It's HYPERTENTION that causes stress to the kidneys, ultimately...that can be a result of weight gain or a myriad of other reasons...not necessarily steroids. Not saying they may not contribute to the cause, but to try and link them DIRECTLY is disingenuous.
Classic mainstream journalism...
Chick no disrespect but seriously what you wrote susbscribes to this writer indirectly yet you disagree
1) The minute you increase your weight to more that what naturally your body can take you risk Hypertention which later cause stress to your Kidney as according to your quote.
2) We know biological that your body can process a certain amount of protein - the excess can cause stress to your kidneys and therefore medical complications.
3) Fear is that the information that is perpetuated within our peers/bodybuilders is not well informed or qualified as a rep you/organisation should be giving all the good, bad and the evil in regards to information and then we the un/educated ones like us are informed and then make the decision whether to bust my health or not..
I know some will not agree but I think its very important that there is that balance in the aspirations of the organisation to educate and inform - not only training or gh here or whatever steroid it is - but also the education and caution and advisory of the side effects -
The article is not far from the truth - is just the one we don't want to agree on ... ::)
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The article is not far from the truth - is just the one we don't want to agree on ... ::)
It's not really surprising that the only people who try to undermine the arguments on health effects of steroids are the users themselves. ::)
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Chick is drinking the Koolaid...hahahaha enjoy dialysis in a few years lol hahhaa
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It's not really surprising that the only people who try to undermine the arguments on health effects of steroids are the users themselves. ::)
No, they're argued by those of us that have better knowledge/ experience than the 20 something year old girl that wrote the article...by all means though...make your argument...cant wait to hear this
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"The International Federation of Body Building and Fitness reserves the right to test for steroids and human growth hormone at the professional level, and testing is done on a random basis, said Bob Cicherillo, athlete representative for the federation, which is the main governing body for bodybuilding.
::)
Right because one look at the Olympia contestents tells you thats exactly what is happening
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No, they're argued by those of us that have better knowledge/ experience than the 20 something year old girl that wrote the article...by all means though...make your argument...cant wait to hear this
yeah cause dudes who lift weights, strip for old queens and take 'substances' they can't even spell are much better sources of knowledge and information than some woman who graduated top of her class in the NYU School of Journalism and is a published writer for one of the top, if not the TOP newspaper on the planet ::) ::) ::) ::) oh please... just post the John gosslin pic already
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yeah cause dudes who lift weights, strip for old queens and take 'substances' they can't even spell are much better sources of knowledge and information than some woman who graduated top of her class in the NYU School of Journalism and is a published writer for one of the top, if not the TOP newspaper on the planet ::) ::) ::) ::) oh please... just post the John gosslin pic already
Didnt know they had a course in "steroids 101" that she took at the NYU school of journalism...my bad
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they don't make any distinction between orals and injevtables...
are they suggesting that injectable test causes kidney problems?
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they don't make any distinction between orals and injevtables...
are they suggesting that injectable test causes kidney problems?
Exactly my point...no distinction was made of this "study"...way to many variables to consider.
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Exactly my point...no distinction was made of this "study"...way to many variables to consider.
Pro Bodybuilding is on its way out, the general public is losing interest. Since the 80's and early 90's it just a drug freak show.
Congrats
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Pro Bodybuilding is on its way out, the general public is losing interest. Since the 80's and early 90's it just a drug freak show.
Congrats
The "general public" never had any interest
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The "general public" never had any interest
So who is interested?
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question...has anyone ever been tested at an the olympia? or any other event staged by the IFBB?
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So who is interested?
The non general public...like all nitche sports
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question...has anyone ever been tested at an the olympia? or any other event staged by the IFBB?
Yes.
There is a testing program currently in use in the IFBB... I'm sure Bob would be more qualified to discuss it, but it is random and the positive tests are not made public.
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Yes.
There is a testing program currently in use in the IFBB... I'm sure Bob would be more qualified to discuss it, but it is random and the positive tests are not made public.
Really ???? ??? So are you telling me that this year's Olympia contestants were tested? ::)
It's so random that no one ever gets caught ;D Exhibit A: Jay Cutler
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I always had high liver values (ALT, AST), at some points 7-8 times the normal level. I spoke to many guys who were serious with similar levels (juicing or not).
Then i tried lowering the protein i was eating just to see what would happen generally and next blood test results? Liver values normal.
Overdoing anything for a length of time can cause problems and eating excessive protein IMO can't be that great for you.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em)
But several bodybuilders said the testing was nearly nonexistent, and Cicherillo said he could not provide specific figures on competitors who tested positive. In addition, the chairman of the organization’s medical commission, Robert M. Goldman, is a leading champion of the anti-aging effects of human growth hormone, a drug that is banned by most sports governing bodies.
James Manion, who runs the professional division of the federation, did not return several calls seeking comment.
whats wrong bob couldn't answer the question?
seems like your daddy was tongue tied as well...
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so this 20 year old girl basically made you and your federation look like joke.
shame your "better knowledge and experience" can't help explain why its ok to break the law and not follow your own rules.
No, they're argued by those of us that have better knowledge/ experience than the 20 something year old girl that wrote the article...by all means though...make your argument...cant wait to hear this
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what a pathetic fool you are chick.
attempting to belittle the journalist for exposing your federation as a joke.
btw - you never did tell us which CVS supplied you the humalog without a script.
Didnt know they had a course in "steroids 101" that she took at the NYU school of journalism...my bad
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I always had high liver values (ALT, AST), at some points 7-8 times the normal level. I spoke to many guys who were serious with similar levels (juicing or not).
Then i tried lowering the protein i was eating just to see what would happen generally and next blood test results? Liver values normal.
Overdoing anything for a length of time can cause problems and eating excessive protein IMO can't be that great for you.
interesting, let's hear the grams, what was high and what did you lower them to?
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interesting, let's hear the grams, what was high and what did you lower them to?
First of all i weigh everything so i knew what i was eating.
When i was younger i ate around 350 a day.
Even at around 230-250 a day it was consistently 2.5-3 times normal.
Now i eat at least 5 clean meals (maybe a junk meal in there due to fast met.) and i would only eat around 25 grams of protein a meal. So all up with the crap maybe 150 a day.
Didn't notice any size change, bit leaner maybe but i always stay very lean. I felt a lot better, eating excess protein i was out of breath sometimes between meals and i would wonder why. It was due to eating too much to be digested so once i dropped it i felt better.
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Really ???? ??? So are you telling me that this year's Olympia contestants were tested? ::)
It's so random that no one ever gets caught ;D Exhibit A: Jay Cutler
From my understanding they test several IFBB professional BBers randomly, and pull from the whole of the Pro Division... So theoretically a pro may go his whole career without being tested.
The IFBB (as a whole) does have a drug testing program, but the Mr. Olympia contest itself was not tested.
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whats wrong bob couldn't answer the question?
seems like your daddy was tongue tied as well...
x2!
the TRUTH is , there is NO testing- its too costly and the IFBB doesnt care about the athletes health.
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haha, king kamai, flex, bob..........it's a who's who of bb'ing. :o
Exactly, I was waiting for Palumbo to pop up since he's from NY.
WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?em)
Bodybuilders said that they were unfairly singled out as drug abusers when athletes in most other sports were also using performance-enhancing drugs. “Like anything else, it’s use and abuse,” Cicherillo said.
When it comes to pro BB (IFBB) its all about abuse even Flex said it at the begining of article.
WOOOOSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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“But if you want to be a bodybuilder and compete at the highest level, it has nothing to do with health"
this statement should be posted AT EVERY BODYBUILDING SHOW/EXPOS
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I suppose they cant write an article on bbing without mentioning aas.
Extremely High-protein diets, painkiller abuse, diuretic abuse, extreme dieting(force-feeding, extreme cutting diets) practices, dnp/clen, t3, eca abuse and rec drugs are actually the main reason for the problems, with aas, slin & hgh abuse contributing, but not the whole of the problem.
Momo died of heart failure due to dehidration and an apple puree only diet.
Sonny Schmidt abused rec drugs
Tom Prince abused pain killers
Francois retired due to collitis which occurs usually in ppl that go through major weight fluctuations
Flex was predisposed to kidney trouble, and had/has a very experimental personality
Mattarazzo has hereditary heart disease, and followed an extreme diet
etc, etc...
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First of all i weigh everything so i knew what i was eating.
When i was younger i ate around 350 a day.
Even at around 230-250 a day it was consistently 2.5-3 times normal.
Now i eat at least 5 clean meals (maybe a junk meal in there due to fast met.) and i would only eat around 25 grams of protein a meal. So all up with the crap maybe 150 a day.
Didn't notice any size change, bit leaner maybe but i always stay very lean. I felt a lot better, eating excess protein i was out of breath sometimes between meals and i would wonder why. It was due to eating too much to be digested so once i dropped it i felt better.
wow, 150 seems so little. I eat between 250-300g complete protein per day. 300 is where i draw the line, no more than that, let's not get carried away.
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The non general public...like all nitche sports beauty pagents
FIXED
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some interested read.
http://www.anthonyroberts.co.za/2009/12/ifbb-on-the-run-from-the-ny-times/
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Yeh it was posted in another thread this Anthony Roberts guy is fucking stupid
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Yeh it was posted in another thread this Anthony Roberts guy is fucking stupid
Why because hes being honest? hes right the ifbb doesnt test and they are to test by law if someone stepped in from the goverment and they did real testing,You would see 280 pound bb turn into 220 pound bb ifbb done......
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Why because hes being honest? hes right the ifbb doesnt test and they are to test by law if someone stepped in from the goverment and they did real testing,You would see 280 pound bb turn into 220 160 pound bb ifbb done......
fixed
(reference Mustafa thread)
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Why because hes being honest? hes right the ifbb doesnt test and they are to test by law if someone stepped in from the goverment and they did real testing,You would see 280 pound bb turn into 220 pound bb ifbb done......
You would also see all the Olympic games times drop dramatically.
But my point was made in the other thread, he likes to attack certain things just to attack someone and get attention he doesn't even look at the issue properly.
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This study is so flawed and skewed is not even funny. Where is the other study to accompany it whwere they test 10 other people who have never touched steroids to see how many of them suffer the same consequences? I gave much info to the writer, of course, she decided to omit most of it that raises more questions, and facts like a high protein diet, pain relievers, diet, etc arent even taken into consideration.
It's HYPERTENTION that causes stress to the kidneys, ultimately...that can be a result of weight gain, or a myriad of other reasons...not necessarily steroids. Not saying they may not contribute to the cause, but to try and link them DIRECTLY is disingenous.
Most probable, it's a combination of many factors that can contribute to kidney problems...the LEAST significant, is steroids.
Classic mainstream journalism...
*Sigh*
Chick... ALL steroids cause water retention to varying degrees, which in turn elevates blood pressure. All steroids also cause your blood lipid profiles to get out of whack...(More HDL...less LDL...with the exception of low doses of Turinabol).
This of course is not the ONLY cause...but it is the first and foremost problem. You carry around that much extra weight/water, you put your system under more stress. Yes... compound this with diuretics, painkiller abuse, (which is probably worse then steroids, but we cant assume every pro bodybuilder is abusing Advil...they are all however taking steroids beyond safe doses), and often times absurd amounts of protein...then you have a serious problem.
I'm not saying steroids are as evil as some would have us believe...but to say its the least of the evils, instead of the primary evil is silly.
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First of all i weigh everything so i knew what i was eating.
When i was younger i ate around 350 a day.
Even at around 230-250 a day it was consistently 2.5-3 times normal.
Now i eat at least 5 clean meals (maybe a junk meal in there due to fast met.) and i would only eat around 25 grams of protein a meal. So all up with the crap maybe 150 a day.
Didn't notice any size change, bit leaner maybe but i always stay very lean. I felt a lot better, eating excess protein i was out of breath sometimes between meals and i would wonder why. It was due to eating too much to be digested so once i dropped it i felt better.
I have always been convinced that high protein diet is way overrated. I just feel sorry for the people who will become the victim of the supplement industry's fake marketing.
When will people learn...
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I have always been convinced that high protein diet is way overrated. I just feel sorry for the people who will become the victim of the supplement industry's fake marketing.
When will people learn...
This is very true...while I think it probably differs from person to person... I think most bodybuilders eat WAY more protein then they really need.
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This is very true...while I think it probably differs from person to person... I think most bodybuilders eat WAY more protein then they really need.
That has been said for years By guys like Ferrigno,Strydom,Nubret ..there was an article someone posted here a while back with quotes of pro BB telling it like it is.
WOOOOSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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*Sigh*
Chick... ALL steroids cause water retention to varying degrees, which in turn elevates blood pressure. All steroids also cause your blood lipid profiles to get out of whack...(More HDL...less LDL...with the exception of low doses of Turinabol).
This of course is not the ONLY cause...but it is the first and foremost problem. You carry around that much extra weight/water, you put your system under more stress. Yes... compound this with diuretics, painkiller abuse, (which is probably worse then steroids, but we cant assume every pro bodybuilder is abusing Advil...they are all however taking steroids beyond safe doses), and often times absurd amounts of protein...then you have a serious problem.
I'm not saying steroids are as evil as some would have us believe...but to say its the least of the evils, instead of the primary evil is silly.
Point was...if you take ridiculous amounts of any of the things I listed, Steroids ARE the least of the problems...which is why you've heard of virtually 100% of th guys with problems, linked to the items I listed...diuretics, advil, nubain, high protein, etc
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I have always been convinced that high protein diet is way overrated. I just feel sorry for the people who will become the victim of the supplement industry's fake marketing.
When will people learn...
In my first 2 years i made awesome strength and size gains (bit fat but after dieted down it was worth it), and while i ate protein i didn't really eat excessive amounts. Then i started eating a clean BBer diet and that's when i had problems.
Same with 'clean' carbs, there is only so much i can eat before i feel like shit. Sometimes i need to carb up for 1-2 meals in a row (excluding breakfast) but even then it's not that many carbs. I stick with fats, vegtables, small amount of carbs and protein. Then junk ;) stay leaner feel much better
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Chick is right. Steroids have little health consequences. Kids that look up to Chick should learn where to buy syringes and vials from him. He could coach them on dosages.
This is rationalization at it's finest. Every steroid user sees themself as some kind of chemist/doctor because of the cocktail of crap they take. Putting a syringe in your ass doesn't make you a doctor.
When a user has to stop taking drugs due to health, finance or because of an arrest they suddenly look like crap after a couple of short months. I have seen it time after time.
There is no amount of logic you can use to convince a user that maybe bodybuilding drugs are a risk to health. Even when stung by health complications they use rationalization to say non bodybuilders get these health problems also.
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Chick,
A liar for an athlete rep - embarrassing.
The International Federation of Body Building and Fitness reserves the right to test for steroids and human growth hormone at the professional level, and testing is done on a random basis, said Bob Cicherillo, athlete representative for the federation, which is the main governing body for bodybuilding.
But several bodybuilders said the testing was nearly nonexistent, and Cicherillo said he could not provide specific figures on competitors who tested positive.
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So where is the lie?
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So where is the lie?
when is the last time an athlete was randomly tested? who was it and what was the outcome?
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you aren't very smart are you?
So where is the lie?
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when is the last time an athlete was randomly tested? who was it and what was the outcome?
silence is deafening from chic
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silence is deafening from chic
maybe he's researching your answer?
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Chick is right. Steroids have little health consequences. Kids that look up to Chick should learn where to buy syringes and vials from him. He could coach them on dosages.
This is rationalization at it's finest. Every steroid user sees themself as some kind of chemist/doctor because of the cocktail of crap they take. Putting a syringe in your ass doesn't make you a doctor.
When a user has to stop taking drugs due to health, finance or because of an arrest they suddenly look like crap after a couple of short months. I have seen it time after time.
There is no amount of logic you can use to convince a user that maybe bodybuilding drugs are a risk to health. Even when stung by health complications they use rationalization to say non bodybuilders get these health problems also.
Apparently, if someone chooses the Pro bodybuilder lifestyle, which neccesitates ingesting large quantities of steroids, they will always ignore any study or any common sense observation that shows huge doses of stuff like Trenbelone and other harsh androgens can stress the kidneys. They have too much psychologically invested to admit the truth to themselves. When they see several top guys from the 70's including Padilla, Corney, Coe, Arnold and many others that have had heart surgery, they will never admit steroids had anything to do with it. So, if you are objective and open minded, you see the link..If you're too invested in the lifestyle, you will look for all these nonsensical genetic reasons.