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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Fury on January 25, 2010, 12:07:53 PM
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Paris, France (CNN) -- French lawmakers could recommend Tuesday that the fiercely secular country ban the burqa, the full-body covering worn by some Muslim women.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy controversially told lawmakers in June that the traditional Muslim garment was "not welcome" in France.
"The problem of the burqa is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burqa is not welcome in France," Sarkozy said.
A day later, the French National Assembly announced the creation of an inquiry into whether women in France should be allowed to wear the covering.
A cross-party panel of 32 lawmakers has been studying whether the burqa poses a threat to France's constitutionally-mandated secularism. A ban could make it impossible for women who wear the burqa to receive any public services, from buying a bus ticket to picking up a child at school.
Some members of parliament want to go even further with a law that might make wearing a full veil subject to a $1,000 fine.
"You know, it is not only an article of clothing to hide your face," said parliamentary majority leader Jean-Francois Cope. "I am sorry, it's a choice which is not compatible with the rules of the republic."
Within days of Sarkozy's announcement, al Qaeda threatened to "take revenge" on France "by every means and wherever we can reach them," according to a statement posted on radical Islamist Web sites.
"We will not tolerate such provocations and injustices, and we will take our revenge from France," said the statement, signed by Abu Musab Abdul Wadud, calling himself "commander of al Qaeda in North Africa [Islamic Maghreb]."
But more than half of French people support the ban, according to a recent opinion poll. The Ipsos poll for Le Point magazine found 57 percent of French people said it should be illegal to appear in public wearing clothes that cover the face, like the burqa.
That's despite government estimates that less than 2,000 women in the country actually wear the full Islamic veil.
France has about 3.5 million Muslims, representing about 6 percent of the population, according to research by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. The country does not collect its own statistics on religion in accordance with laws enshrining France's status as a secular state.
French lawmakers believe the burqa is a growing phenomenon beneath which lies a not-so-subtle message of fundamentalism.
Those who advocate the ban say women are often forced to wear full veils by the men around them -- husbands, fathers or brothers -- and that it is a sign of subjugation.
However, women who actually wear the veils deny that.
"You are going to isolate these women and then you can't say that it is Islam that has denied them freedom, but that the law has," said Mabrouka Boujnah, a language teacher of Tunisian origin.
Boujnah, who at 28 is about to have her first child, says she came to wearing a full veil gradually, after wearing headscarves as an teenager. She believes a law like the one being discussed will take away fundamental rights of Muslim women.
She and her friend Oumkheyr say they prefer to cover their faces out of piety.
Oumkheyr, in her 40s and unmarried, says she even has friends who wear full veils against the wishes of their husbands. Oumkheyr, who is from Algeria, would not give her last name.
The women, both French citizens, say they are only following their religious beliefs and France should respect that.
But even some Muslims here think the full veil goes too far.
There is nothing in Quran that directs women to cover their faces, said Imam Hassen Chalghoumi, who runs the Islamic center in Drancy, a Paris suburb. He said it is ridiculous to do so in France.
While French lawmakers from both left- and right-wing parties seem ready to pass at least a resolution discouraging the full veil in public places, it's a choice Boujnah and Oumkheyr say they will continue to make. They pair say they will willingly show their faces for identification purposes -- but if it comes to it, they will break any law that runs contrary to their religious beliefs..
At the very least any law directed at full veils is likely to be challenged in the courts both here and at the European level. What's more, even police find it hard to imagine how they could -- or would -- enforce such a ban.
In 2004, the French parliament passed legislation banning Muslim girls from wearing headscarves in state schools, prompting widespread Muslim protests. The law also banned other conspicuous religious symbols including Sikh turbans, large Christian crucifixes and Jewish skull caps.
In 2008, France's top court denied a Moroccan woman's naturalization request on the grounds that she wore a burqa.
France is not the only European Union country to consider banning the burqa. Dutch lawmakers voted in favor of a ban in 2005, although the government at the time left office before legislation could be passed.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/25/france.burqa/index.html?hpt=T2
About time someone took a stand against these Islamic Crusaders.
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Damn, I find myself actually liking something the French may do. Crazy times...
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Go France!
Ban muslims too while you're at it. Your terrorism rates will plummet.
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Each country to it's own. I just hope this doesn't impinge religious freedom like the swiss have done with their minaret ban.
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Each country to it's own. I just hope this doesn't impinge religious freedom like the swiss have done with their minaret ban.
What!? does not having a minaret prevent someone from practicing Islam? No? Then it is not impinging on anyones religious freedom.
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What!? does not having a minaret prevent someone from practicing Islam? No? Then it is not impinging on anyones religious freedom.
For someone who believes in rights and freedoms you take a weird stance on things sometimes. Perhaps it's due to a palatable anti-muslim sentiment most americans like yourself hold.
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Each country to it's own. I just hope this doesn't impinge religious freedom like the swiss have done with their minaret ban.
The burqa has nothing to do with Islam. It's used as a means of making women subservient. ::)
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For someone who believes in rights and freedoms you take a weird stance on things sometimes. Perhaps it's due to a palatable anti-muslim sentiment most americans like yourself hold.
No I don't have a weird stance, answer the question, does not having a minaret prevent anyone from practicing Islam? Do you even know what the purpose of a minaret is?
If they banned the steeple on a church would that prevent people from practicing Christianity?
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The burqa has nothing to do with Islam. It's used as a means of making women subservient. ::)
islam means submission. it's a faith of submission. banning part of that is banning part of the faith. I believe muslim woman should be allowed to choose. if they wish to wear a burqa then that is their choice, not the govts to make.
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No I don't have a weird stance, answer the question, does not having a minaret prevent anyone from practicing Islam? Do you even know what the purpose of a minaret is?
If they banned the steeple on a church would that prevent people from practicing Christianity?
well it serves the purpose of a call to prayer. is it essential? No. But that doesn't mean it should be taken away, it's apart of religious expression and freedom. By banning it you are on a slippery slope.
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islam means submission. it's a faith of submission. banning part of that is banning part of the faith. I believe muslim woman should be allowed to choose. if they wish to wear a burqa then that is their choice, not the govts to make.
It is the government's choice to make. France is a VERY secular society and it's even mandated in their constitution. Muslim men forcing their women to wear the burqa is assaulting that very principle. Thankfully they're on track to ban that useless garb.
Wearing a burqa will not affect the practicing of Islam in anyway. What it will affect is a man's control over his slavewoman. It is a means of subjugation and nothing more.
As Sakorzy said last summer, "The problem of the burqa is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burqa is not welcome in France."
Either way, it looks like the French lawmakers pussed out and are recommending only a partial ban. ::)
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well it serves the purpose of a call to prayer. is it essential? No. But that doesn't mean it should be taken away, it's apart of religious expression and freedom. By banning it you are on a slippery slope.
There is no slope and it is not slippery, the Swiss have not banned Islam. A mosque, church, synagog are simply buildings. No where I have even seen a guarantee that you can build a place of worship, only that you can worship.
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They banned the minaret because the Muslim Crusaders insist on building them higher than any other building in the area (another way of displaying their perceived superiority) and couldn't care less about destroying the view or skyline. It serves no purpose and every one of them should be torn down or built at a height on par with the rest of the buildings.
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It is the government's choice to make. France is a VERY secular society and it's even mandated in their constitution. Muslim men forcing their women to wear the burqa is assaulting that very principle. Thankfully they're on track to ban that useless garb.
Wearing a burqa will not affect the practicing of Islam in anyway. What it will affect is a man's control over his slavewoman. It is a means of subjugation and nothing more.
As Sakorzy said last summer, "The problem of the burqa is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burqa is not welcome in France."
Either way, it looks like the French lawmakers pussed out and are recommending only a partial ban. ::)
So you believe the govt can choose what you can and can not wear?
I agree woman should have a right to choose, islam has too many men that wish to crush female free will. But this is a case of the govt doing the exact same thing is it not?
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So you believe the govt can choose what you can and can not wear?
I agree woman should have a right to choose, islam has too many men that wish to crush female free will. But this is a case of the govt doing the exact same thing is it not?
I believe France, whose constitution mandates secularism, can indeed choose what someone can and can't wear if what someone is wearing violates one of the founding principles of the country.
And for what it's worth, over 50% of French people agree. Out with the burqa. It violates one of France's most prominent laws and has no business in French culture. If women want to be subjugated like that they could go back to their Muslim country and wear their burqas.
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I believe France, whose constitution mandates secularism, can indeed choose what someone can and can't wear if what someone is wearing violates one of the founding principles of the country.
And for what it's worth, over 50% of French people agree. Out with the burqa. It violates one of France's most prominent laws and has no business in French culture. If women want to be subjugated like that they could go back to their Muslim country and wear their burqas.
And if they have been born in france then where are they to go? Will they be arrested for expressing their religious freedom? This is nothing but a chance to take away someones freedom because you are scared of what you don't understand. Sure they'll trot out examples of terrorists and dirt bag males who subjugate woman to horrible conditions, but what of those woman who choose this. Are they suppose to be forced into something because of fear and idiots in their religion?
What if your freedoms were taken because of some idiots in your race, family, religion etc?
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And if they have been born in france then where are they to go? Will they be arrested for expressing their religious freedom? This is nothing but a chance to take away someones freedom because you are scared of what you don't understand. Sure they'll trot out examples of terrorists and dirt bag males who subjugate woman to horrible conditions, but what of those woman who choose this. Are they suppose to be forced into something because of fear and idiots in their religion?
What if your freedoms were taken because of some idiots in your race, family, religion etc?
No, this is a chance to take away someone's ability to subjugate a woman because their constitution MANDATES secularism. Women who choose to wear it can leave France. The French constitution was around long before they were born and they're welcome to leave if they don't like it. They'll be in the minority as over 50% of French people agree with banning the burqa.
The country is built on secularism. The Muslim Crusaders, try as they might (and they usually succeed), are not exempt from that. Removing the burqa will not affect the practicing of their religion. Just like removing the eyesore that is those minarets won't affect Muslims practicing in Switzerland.
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(http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/500/Drivers-License-876.jpg)
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They should ban all religious garb for the sake of equality.
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They should ban all religious garb for the sake of equality.
Religious garb offends me.
Where's my lawyer....
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No, this is a chance to take away someone's ability to subjugate a woman because their constitution MANDATES secularism. Women who choose to wear it can leave France. The French constitution was around long before they were born and they're welcome to leave if they don't like it. They'll be in the minority as over 50% of French people agree with banning the burqa.
The country is built on secularism. The Muslim Crusaders, try as they might (and they usually succeed), are not exempt from that. Removing the burqa will not affect the practicing of their religion. Just like removing the eyesore that is those minarets won't affect Muslims practicing in Switzerland.
So a French citizen who wishes to wear the burqa should just leave their homeland? This is your justification that 50% of people want to suppress a minority? Wow you would have fitted right in with the Nazis and other Anti-Semites throughout history. Quite ironic really that Muslims are being treated much the same way Jews were for hundreds (in not thousands) of years, as second class citizens with no rights, all at the behest of a misinformed angry 'majority'.
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So a French citizen who wishes to wear the burqa should just leave their homeland? This is your justification that 50% of people want to suppress a minority? Wow you would have fitted right in with the Nazis and other Anti-Semites throughout history. Quite ironic really that Muslims are being treated much the same way Jews were for hundreds (in not thousands) of years, as second class citizens with no rights, all at the behest of a misinformed angry 'majority'.
Dude your argument has just ventured into the surreal. Yeah Muslims are treated like 2nd class citizens ::), as soon as they are enslaved by the Egyptians or rounded up by the Nazi's, or purged by the Communist you can make the comparison. No rights my ass, they come to the host country and try to impose their culture on it, and when things don't go their way they try to use the countries own laws against them.
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Dude your argument has just ventured into the surreal. Yeah Muslims are treated like 2nd class citizens ::), as soon as they are enslaved by the Egyptians or rounded up by the Nazi's, or purged by the Communist you can make the comparison. No rights my ass, they come to the host country and try to impose their culture on it, and when things don't go their way they try to use the countries own laws against them.
Why dont those "women" go the hell home if they dont like it.
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So a French citizen who wishes to wear the burqa should just leave their homeland? This is your justification that 50% of people want to suppress a minority? Wow you would have fitted right in with the Nazis and other Anti-Semites throughout history. Quite ironic really that Muslims are being treated much the same way Jews were for hundreds (in not thousands) of years, as second class citizens with no rights, all at the behest of a misinformed angry 'majority'.
Nice try but my problem rests with the fact that France is a secular country. It's dictated in their constitution and this applies to ALL religions. Muslims, in their great crusade against the West, are again trying to circumvent that fact. France's constitution has now been around for a few centuries. The Muslims, try as they might, are not exempt from the constitution because they have a problem with everything. If they don't like it, they can go back to a Muslim country and rock their burqa and be modern day slaves to their heart's content.
Not that it matters. The French government pussied out and is only recommending a "partial" burqa ban. ::)
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Dude your argument has just ventured into the surreal. Yeah Muslims are treated like 2nd class citizens ::), as soon as they are enslaved by the Egyptians or rounded up by the Nazi's, or purged by the Communist you can make the comparison. No rights my ass, they come to the host country and try to impose their culture on it, and when things don't go their way they try to use the countries own laws against them.
This is the start Kazan. You chip away at the rights and freedoms of someone based on their religion and it's a snowball effect. Jews weren't put straight into death camps etc. It's was a process over years. Like a river that carves out a canyon, it's not an overnight thing.
Who says they came anywhere. The countries a lot of them came from were french territories for hundreds of years and allowed them passage into France. Thousands have grown up there, were born there, are French in every sense of the word. But now because they are muslim they must give up their freedom to choose how they will dress?
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Why dont those "women" go the hell home if they dont like it.
They are home retard. They are either born in france or came from french territories ::)
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They are home retard. They are either born in france or came from french territories ::)
Than if they dont like it, or feel it is a violation of some right, they can:
A. Move
B. Sue to repeal it.
c. Blow themselves up.
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Nice try but my problem rests with the fact that France is a secular country. It's dictated in their constitution and this applies to ALL religions. Muslims, in their great crusade against the West, are again trying to circumvent that fact. France's constitution has now been around for a few centuries. The Muslims, try as they might, are not exempt from the constitution because they have a problem with everything. If they don't like it, they can go back to a Muslim country and rock their burqa and be modern day slaves to their heart's content.
Not that it matters. The French government pussied out and is only recommending a "partial" burqa ban. ::)
It's not a try at anything. It exposes you to what you really are. A discriminatory figure who believes someones rights should be taken away based on their beliefs which you yourself have admitted to not agreeing with. I stand by that this is exactly the type of behavior exhibited by Anti-Semites throughout history.
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Than if they dont like it, or feel it is a violation of some right, they can:
A. Move
B. Sue to repeal it.
c. Blow themselves up.
So you'd be okay with the US Govt telling you what to wear? I mean you'd just move, blow yourself up or spend thousands of dollars trying to sue right? You'd have no issues because those are your options right?
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It's not a try at anything. It exposes you to what you really are. A discriminatory figure who believes someones rights should be taken away based on their beliefs which you yourself have admitted to not agreeing with. I stand by that this is exactly the type of behavior exhibited by Anti-Semites throughout history.
What rights? Not wearing a burqa does not affect one's ability to practice Islam, dipshit.
It is a tool used to subjugate women and nothing more. Thus, it has no place in Western society. Try as the Muslim Crusaders might, women are not slaves in Western society.
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So you'd be okay with the US Govt telling you what to wear? I mean you'd just move, blow yourself up or spend thousands of dollars trying to sue right? You'd have no issues because those are your options right?
This is France, not the USA.
I dont know what their laws are. If their constittion permits it, they are free to enact this law.
If the 365/24/7 Halloween crowd does not like it, they can move.
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What rights? Not wearing a burqa does not affect one's ability to practice Islam, dipshit.
It is a tool used to subjugate women and nothing more. Thus, it has no place in Western society. Try as the Muslim Crusaders might, women are not slaves in Western society.
It's a freedom that is being taken away. I've already agreed that it should not be used as a tool by men against woman but if a woman wishes to wear one then so be it, that is HER choice. Not the Govts, not yours, not mine, HERS. You are as bad as the men trying to force woman to wear it, both of you have little regard for their rights in this instance.
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This is France, not the USA.
I dont know what their laws are. If their constittion permits it, they are free to enact this law.
If the 365/24/7 Halloween crowd does not like it, they can move.
So freedom doesn't matter to you? Just wanted to make sure of that so next time you go crying about gun rights or taxes or the govt you'll take your own advice and either
A. Move
B. Sue to repeal it.
c. Or Blow yourself up.
:)
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It's a freedom that is being taken away. I've already agreed that it should not be used as a tool by men against woman but if a woman wishes to wear one then so be it, that is HER choice. Not the Govts, not yours, not mine, HERS. You are as bad as the men trying to force woman to wear it, both of you have little regard for their rights in this instance.
No, it's not her choice. Her choice does not override the French constitution. Is that so hard for you to grasp?
The French constitution was around before she was born and will probably be around long after she's dead. If they have a problem with it, they can leave. Their perceived rights (which wearing a burqa isn't) do not come before what the constitution mandates. If they have a problem with secularism, they can move to Saudi Arabia or another country where women get beaten for not wearing their burqa.
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No, it's not her choice. Her choice does not override the French constitution. Is that so hard for you to grasp?
The French constitution was around before she was born and will probably be around long after she's dead. If they have a problem with it, they can leave. Their perceived rights (which wearing a burqa isn't) do not come before what the constitution mandates. If they have a problem with secularism, they can move to Saudi Arabia or another country where women get beaten for not wearing their burqa.
Please be specific where is says a woman cannot choose what she wishes to wear in the french constitution? A burqa is a choice of clothing is it not? So you would also support a ban on all winter jackets or all pairs of jeans too right?
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Please be specific where is says a woman cannot choose what she wishes to wear in the french constitution? A burqa is a choice of clothing is it not? So you would also support a ban on all winter jackets or all pairs of jeans too right?
The burqa has become intertwined with Islam due to the subjugating nature of the Koran, and thus it violates the principle of secularism that France was founded on and is very adamant about protecting. Thus it does not belong in French society. Banning it will not affect the practicing of Islam. Nothing more needs to be said.
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So freedom doesn't matter to you? Just wanted to make sure of that so next time you go crying about gun rights or taxes or the govt you'll take your own advice and either
A. Move
B. Sue to repeal it.
c. Or Blow yourself up.
:)
We are talking about France, not the USA.
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The burqa has become intertwined with Islam due to the subjugating nature of the Koran, and thus it violates the principle of secularism that France was founded on and is very adamant about protecting. Thus it does not belong in French society. Banning it will not affect the practicing of Islam. Nothing more needs to be said.
No people have deemed the burqa to be all those things. Some muslim men have played their part in helping that belief but islam as a whole is submission to god. The burqa is a submissive statement by some woman who wish to stay covered to the eyes of anyone but their husbands and god. It is THEIR decision to make, not a govts, not yours and not mine. Simple as that.
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This is the start Kazan. You chip away at the rights and freedoms of someone based on their religion and it's a snowball effect. Jews weren't put straight into death camps etc. It's was a process over years. Like a river that carves out a canyon, it's not an overnight thing.
Who says they came anywhere. The countries a lot of them came from were french territories for hundreds of years and allowed them passage into France. Thousands have grown up there, were born there, are French in every sense of the word. But now because they are muslim they must give up their freedom to choose how they will dress?
Again how does not wearing a tent, or not having a minaret stop someone from practicing Islam? The Swiss didn't ban mosques, and beside noise laws would prevent the using them for a call to prayer anyway, so they would be useless.
Take a look at the license picture in the other post, how the fuck can someone be identified dressed like that?
And to your point about the government Federal/State/Local having a say it what you wear, well they already do.
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No people have deemed the burqa to be all those things. Some muslim men have played their part in helping that belief but islam as a whole is submission to god. The burqa is a submissive statement by some woman who wish to stay covered to the eyes of anyone but their husbands and god. It is THEIR decision to make, not a govts, not yours and not mine. Simple as that.
It is THEIR decision to make, not a govts, not yours and not mine. Simple as that.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Whatever KC. The day those "women" stop wearing it, they get their throats slit by those barbarians who worship a pedophile murderer.
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It is THEIR decision to make, not a govts, not yours and not mine. Simple as that.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Whatever KC. The day those "women" stop wearing it, they get their throats slit by those barbarians who worship a pedophile murderer.
I've already stated my disagreement with those men who would force a woman to wear a burqa. However, the govt taking away a womans right to choose what to wear is exactly the same thing, just on the other spectrum. Both actions inhibit the freedom of choice by a muslim woman.
I can see by your later statement you really have no credibility on this issue as you (Like BF) are not unbiased at all to the facts and only wish to take freedoms away from those you do not understand or care to understand. This is how terrorism finds breeding grounds.
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No people have deemed the burqa to be all those things. Some muslim men have played their part in helping that belief but islam as a whole is submission to god. The burqa is a submissive statement by some woman who wish to stay covered to the eyes of anyone but their husbands and god. It is THEIR decision to make, not a govts, not yours and not mine. Simple as that.
So now you are an expert on Islam? Have you read the Koran? You can regurgitate all the propaganda you hear from the Muslims, but when it comes down to it the whole point is to conquer and turn the world into the caliphate under Shiria law.
Why is Al-Taqiyya OK?
You do understand that in Islam there is the house of peace ( Mulsims ) and the house of war (everyone else)?
Why is it OK for Muslims to force someone to convert to Islam, and then if they fail to practice become apostate?
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I've already stated my disagreement with those men who would force a woman to wear a burqa. However, the govt taking away a womans right to choose what to wear is exactly the same thing, just on the other spectrum. Both actions inhibit the freedom of choice by a muslim woman.
I can see by your later statement you really have no credibility on this issue as you (Like BF) are not unbiased at all to the facts and only wish to take freedoms away from those you do not understand or care to understand. This is how terrorism finds breeding grounds.
Yeah, I am causing terrorism by my verbal disgust for those who kill, bomb, rape, and and strap dogs with bombs.
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I've already stated my disagreement with those men who would force a woman to wear a burqa. However, the govt taking away a womans right to choose what to wear is exactly the same thing, just on the other spectrum. Both actions inhibit the freedom of choice by a muslim woman.
I can see by your later statement you really have no credibility on this issue as you (Like BF) are not unbiased at all to the facts and only wish to take freedoms away from those you do not understand or care to understand. This is how terrorism finds breeding grounds.
The funny thing is that most of the Muslim women polled don't agree with wearing the burqa. It's only for fear of being beaten to death or honor murdered by their husband/family that they wear it. ::)
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So now you are an expert on Islam? Have you read the Koran? You can regurgitate all the propaganda you hear from the Muslims, but when it comes down to it the whole point is to conquer and turn the world into the caliphate under Shiria law.
Why is Al-Taqiyya OK?
You do understand that in Islam there is the house of peace ( Mulsims ) and the house of war (everyone else)?
Why is it OK for Muslims to force someone to convert to Islam, and then if they fail to practice become apostate?
Those are strict interpretations of Islam not necessarily correct ones. The christian bible also calls for a lot of actions most would deem reprehensible and a lot of blood has been shed in the name of God by all people, not just muslims.
This is not about muslims or islam, it's about the freedom to choose what you wear. Muslims are being attacked and having their rights taken because of a complete lack of understanding and because a few fu*ked up people.
The fact you don't get this yet jump up and down about freedoms and rights in the US is quite the double standard.
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Those are strict interpretations of Islam not necessarily correct ones. The christian bible also calls for a lot of actions most would deem reprehensible and a lot of blood has been shed in the name of God by all people, not just muslims.
This is not about muslims or islam, it's about the freedom to choose what you wear. Muslims are being attacked and having their rights taken because of a complete lack of understanding and because a few fu*ked up people.
The fact you don't get this yet jump up and down about freedoms and rights in the US is quite the double standard.
I hate to break it to you, but you're the one with the lack of understanding. Perhaps you should do some research on the Koran before you start spouting off what does and doesn't violate the "rules" of Islam. ::)
Hint: The Koran does not mention the burqa. It was only intertwined with Islam as a means of subjugating women. And since it has become intertwined with Islam, it violates the secularism that is mandated by the French constitution.
And since it is not mentioned in the Koran, banning it will not affect one's ability to practice Islam. It will affect a Muslim man's ability to subjugate his slave wife, however.
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Those are strict interpretations of Islam not necessarily correct ones. The christian bible also calls for a lot of actions most would deem reprehensible and a lot of blood has been shed in the name of God by all people, not just muslims.
This is not about muslims or islam, it's about the freedom to choose what you wear. Muslims are being attacked and having their rights taken because of a complete lack of understanding and because a few fu*ked up people.
The fact you don't get this yet jump up and down about freedoms and rights in the US is quite the double standard.
Do you support these women wearing their Burqa when they go for photo ID for a drivers' license?
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I hate to break it to you, but you're the one with the lack of understanding. Perhaps you should do some research on the Koran before you start spouting off what does and doesn't violate the "rules" of Islam. ::)
Hint: The Koran does not mention the burqa. It was only intertwined with Islam as a means of subjugating women. And since it has become intertwined with Islam, it violates the secularism that is mandated by the French constitution.
And since it is not mentioned in the Koran, banning it will not affect one's ability to practice Islam. It will affect a Muslim man's ability to subjugate his slave wife, however.
What does it matter if it's in the koran or not? It's a womans right to choose what she wears, plain and simple. The fact you're now saying you believe it has nothing to do with a religion just furthers my point. It's a freedom being taken from someone. and that freedom is the right to choose what you wear.
I don't expect you to get this, you don't believe in freedom that much is obvious. Unless of course it's freedom for anyone but muslims. ::)
What a joke of a poster you are. We really don't need any more bigots here at getbig so take 333's advice -
leave,
sue someone or
blow yourself up
;D
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Do you support these women wearing their Burqa when they go for photo ID for a drivers' license?
Govt issued ID is not a right or freedom per say. Choosing what you wear around town and in your home is. But if you want govt ID you should be subject to the same rules everyone else follows.
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What does it matter if it's in the koran or not? It's a womans right to choose what she wears, plain and simple. The fact you're now saying you believe it has nothing to do with a religion just furthers my point. It's a freedom being taken from someone. and that freedom is the right to choose what you wear.
I don't expect you to get this, you don't believe in freedom that much is obvious. Unless of course it's freedom for anyone but muslims. ::)
What a joke of a poster you are. We really don't need any more bigots here at getbig so take 333's advice -
leave,
sue someone or
blow yourself up
;D
It's clear that you have no grasp of what you're talking about are nothing more than your typical Muslim apologist.
Muslims, despite their constant attempts, are not exempt from the laws that every other religion in France has to abide by. :D
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Those are strict interpretations of Islam not necessarily correct ones. The christian bible also calls for a lot of actions most would deem reprehensible and a lot of blood has been shed in the name of God by all people, not just muslims.
This is not about muslims or islam, it's about the freedom to choose what you wear. Muslims are being attacked and having their rights taken because of a complete lack of understanding and because a few fu*ked up people.
The fact you don't get this yet jump up and down about freedoms and rights in the US is quite the double standard.
So now you are going to throw yet more propaganda at me and try to quantify it with Christianity? What are those actions? And don't post a bunch of passages from the old testament, because if you do you are only showing how little you really know about Christianity as well as Islam.
To a Muslim the Koran is the undisputed pure word of Allah, why do you think they get to pissed when someone "disrespects" the Koran?
So you say its not about Islam but freedom to wear what you want, then in the next sentence it is about Islam, make up your mind.
There is no double standard other than the one in your imagination, a burqa does not stop one from practicing Islam.
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It's clear that you have no grasp of what you're talking about are nothing more than your typical Muslim apologist.
Muslims, despite their constant attempts, are not exempt from the laws that every other religion in France has to abide by. :D
You just said the burqa wasn't related to islam because it's not in the koran. therefore it's not about religion it's about choice ;D
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You just said the burqa wasn't related to islam because it's not in the koran. therefore it's not about religion it's about choice ;D
Yeah Choice KC. ::) ::)
Wear it or get your throat slit. A real choice KC.
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So now you are going to throw yet more propaganda at me and try to quantify it with Christianity? What are those actions? And don't post a bunch of passages from the old testament, because if you do you are only showing how little you really know about Christianity as well as Islam.
To a Muslim the Koran is the undisputed pure word of Allah, why do you think they get to pissed when someone "disrespects" the Koran?
So you say its not about Islam but freedom to wear what you want, then in the next sentence it is about Islam, make up your mind.
There is no double standard other than the one in your imagination, a burqa does not stop one from practicing Islam.
You won't find one mention of it in the Koran. You know, the book that is supposedly the word of God and all that jazz. ;)
You just said the burqa wasn't related to islam because it's not in the koran. therefore it's not about religion it's about choice ;D
It is not mentioned in the Koran. However, it has become part of Islam due to years of Muslim men subjugating their women and forcing them to wear it. Thus it warrants banning as it violates the secularism mandated by France's constitution. :D
It is worn by most Muslim women out of fear of being beaten and/or murdered for not wearing it. Hardly a choice. ;)
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You won't find one mention of it in the Koran. You know, the book that is supposedly the word of God and all that jazz. ;)
It is not mentioned in the Koran. However, it has become part of Islam due to years of Muslim men subjugating their women and forcing them to wear it. Thus it warrants banning as it violates the secularism mandated by France's constitution. :D
It is worn by most women Muslim for fear of being beaten and/or murdered. Hardly a choice. ;)
I've never disagreed that woman who are forced to wear it should have a choice. You're saying its a symbol to you of subjugation. That is not the case with a lot of muslim woman who choose to wear it. Since it's not apart of the religion according to you, then it's akin to banning doc martin boots because in my opinion they are worn by skinheads who attack other races, you would support such a ban on doc martins right?
Would you also support a ban on shaved heads because those too are the symbol of skinheads??
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I've never disagreed that woman who are forced to wear it should have a choice. You're saying its a symbol to you of subjugation. That is not the case with a lot of muslim woman who choose to wear it. Since it's not apart of the religion according to you, then it's akin to banning doc martin boots because in my opinion they are worn by skinheads who attack other races, you would support such a ban on doc martins right?
Would you also support a ban on shaved heads because those too are the symbol of skinheads??
You're trying to spin my words but it's not working. It isn't mentioned in the Koran but it has indeed become a part of the Muslim religion due to years of Muslim men forcing their women to wear it. And because it has become completely intertwined with the practice of Islam, it does indeed violate the idea of secularism that the constitution of France mandates. And because it violates that, it warrants banning. Plain and simple.
Banning it will not affect the practicing of Islam. Not that most Muslims are educated enough to understand that. Years of brainwashing their slave women have ensured that.
You're welcome to try to spin this into some "choice" thing. And that was one of the most idiotic comparisons I've seen with the Doc Martin boots. Talk about reaching. ::)
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You're trying to spin my words but it's not working. It isn't mentioned in the Koran but it has indeed become a part of the Muslim religion due to years of Muslim men forcing their women to wear it. And because it has become completely intertwined with the practice of Islam, it does indeed violate the idea of secularism that the constitution of France mandates. And because it violates that, it warrants banning. Plain and simple.
Banning it will not affect the practicing of Islam. Not that most Muslims are educated enough to understand that. Years of brainwashing their slave women have ensured that.
You're welcome to try to spin this into some "choice" thing. And that was one of the most idiotic comparisons I've seen with the Doc Martin boots. Talk about reaching. ::)
Not reaching at all. It's the same thing. Both are an item of clothing that has been radicalized in some peoples eyes by aggressive people. If you support one ban you must support another.
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Not reaching at all. It's the same thing. Both are an item of clothing that has been radicalized in some peoples eyes by aggressive people. If you support one ban you must support another.
You libs are funny lot, always some half-assed comparison trying to quantify your argument.
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You libs are funny lot, always some half-assed comparison trying to quantify your argument.
You right wingers are funny always preaching freedom and rights until a muslim comes along, then the don't have any.
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You right wingers are funny always preaching freedom and rights until a muslim comes along, then the don't have any.
This is France you dope.
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You right wingers are funny always preaching freedom and rights until a muslim comes along, then the don't have any.
Again, how the fuck does not wearing a burka prevent the practice of Islam? About as much as banning doc martins would stop one from being a skinhead. Your nonsense is getting tiresome.
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You right wingers are funny always preaching freedom and rights until a muslim comes along, then the don't have any.
I'm fairly liberal on most issues. However, I have a problem with the Islamic Crusade being waged on Western society.