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Title: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 12:07:09 PM
Nancy Pelosi: Health care was 'hijacked'
Politico ^

Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:16:39 PM by Sub-Driver


Nancy Pelosi: Health care was 'hijacked'

By: Andy Barr March 11, 2010 12:02 PM EST

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi concedes that Democrats allowed the health care reform debate to get “hijacked” by insurance companies and other interests set on killing the bill.

Pelosi, in the second part of an interview with PBS’s Charlie Rose that aired Wednesday, said that early Democratic messaging attempts were plagued by the fact that the House and Senate had yet to come to any agreement about what would be in the bill.

“When you don't (have) a bill yet, anyone can characterize it any way you want,” the California Democrat said. “I think that while there's some well-intentioned people who have concerns about budget and this and that, a lot of that sentiment was hijacked by a concerted effort on the part of the insurance companies and their supporters to make sure we don't a bill.”

“They could characterize it any way they wanted,” she added. “They could focus the debate.”

Pelosi pointed specifically to the focus on a public option as a tactic health care reform opponents used to damage the bill.

“If you are an insurance company, you want to take down public option, right? You want to get rid of that. But as you do it, you want to confuse the issue on health care reform,” Pelosi explained. “So as long as people are talking about this — the public option — they're not talking about what is in the bill for the American people.”


(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...

________________________ ________________________ ______________________

This nasty fucking bitch needs to go. 

Does she even realize that most of know that she and MAObama are the ones FORCING us to buy insurance from these same companies she and bammer attack daily? 


Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Kazan on March 11, 2010, 12:50:57 PM
I guess health insurance companies are the new "big oil", the boogeyman that waits under your bed for you at night.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 12:52:48 PM
I guess health insurance companies are the new "big oil", the boogeyman that waits under your bed for you at night.

BUT THESE CRIMINALS ARE FORCING US TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS! 


HOW DONT PEOPLE REALIZE THIS? 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: MCWAY on March 11, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
Nancy Pelosi: Health care was 'hijacked'
Politico ^

Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:16:39 PM by Sub-Driver


Nancy Pelosi: Health care was 'hijacked'

By: Andy Barr March 11, 2010 12:02 PM EST

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi concedes that Democrats allowed the health care reform debate to get “hijacked” by insurance companies and other interests set on killing the bill.

Pelosi, in the second part of an interview with PBS’s Charlie Rose that aired Wednesday, said that early Democratic messaging attempts were plagued by the fact that the House and Senate had yet to come to any agreement about what would be in the bill.

“When you don't (have) a bill yet, anyone can characterize it any way you want,” the California Democrat said. “I think that while there's some well-intentioned people who have concerns about budget and this and that, a lot of that sentiment was hijacked by a concerted effort on the part of the insurance companies and their supporters to make sure we don't a bill.”

“They could characterize it any way they wanted,” she added. “They could focus the debate.”

Pelosi pointed specifically to the focus on a public option as a tactic health care reform opponents used to damage the bill.

“If you are an insurance company, you want to take down public option, right? You want to get rid of that. But as you do it, you want to confuse the issue on health care reform,” Pelosi explained. “So as long as people are talking about this — the public option — they're not talking about what is in the bill for the American people.”


(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...

________________________ ________________________ ______________________

This nasty fucking bitch needs to go. 

Does she even realize that most of know that she and MAObama are the ones FORCING us to buy insurance from these same companies she and bammer attack daily? 




The usual liberal mantra: It ain't my fault.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Kazan on March 11, 2010, 12:59:20 PM
BUT THESE CRIMINALS ARE FORCING US TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS! 


HOW DONT PEOPLE REALIZE THIS? 

They are know as "Useful Idiots", every communist needs them.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: BM OUT on March 11, 2010, 02:14:10 PM
I thought they had a fillibuster proof senate and a super majority in the house.Is she saying dems were bought off by insurance companies because republicans sure couldnt have stopped it.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 02:16:09 PM
I thought they had a fillibuster proof senate and a super majority in the house.Is she saying dems were bought off by insurance companies because republicans sure couldnt have stopped it.

This nasty bitch along with MAObama are two of the worst dirtbags in public life I have ever seen. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 02:18:48 PM
Actually, what I think she is saying is that the insurance companies have convinced the American public into believing that they are better than the government running the same practice.

That seems to be a matter of speculation for the most part.

These anti-public healthcare people are often the same people that say "Don't touch my medicare".

I'm sure you've seen those people.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 02:19:44 PM
Quote
This nasty bitch along with MAObama are two of the worst dirtbags in public life I have ever seen.

Ridiculous... Just say you don't like the woman and the black man in charge and at least be honest about it.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 02:20:33 PM
Actually, what I think she is saying is that the insurance companies have convinced the American public into believing that they are better than the government running the same practice.

That seems to be a matter of speculation for the most part.

These anti-public healthcare people are often the same people that say "Don't touch my medicare".

I'm sure you've seen those people.

SHE AND MAOBAMA ARE THE ONES FORCING US TO BUY PRIVATE INSURANCE UNDER THREAT OF IRS PENALTY!

  
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 02:22:01 PM
Ridiculous... Just say you don't like the woman and the black man in charge and at least be honest about it.

Why?  These two need jail cells for what they are doing. 

Forcing me to buy private health insurance from the very companies they claim are trying to kill me has to be the most hypocritical and disgusting thing in my memory are as as legislation goes. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 02:22:30 PM
If people had a public option, they could simply choose to enroll in that one. Which we can't have because you great freedom loving Americans didn't want it.

So now... you get what you get.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 02:32:18 PM
If people had a public option, they could simply choose to enroll in that one. Which we can't have because you great freedom loving Americans didn't want it.

So now... you get what you get.

GMAFB - still blaming the GOP.

The Dems had and have huge majorities and couldnt get it done because of landriex, nelson, lincoln, and lieberman. 

Stop the BS because MAObama lied about supporting the publicoption from day one and you have only him, stretch, and dingy harry to blame. 

Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 02:50:51 PM
Oh... I'm not blaming the GOP.

Don't get it twisted... I'm blaming it on 4 total things.

See... unlike you seem to be in this case, I can focus it on the very specific things that I think are fucked up about it.

1. Insurance Companies convincing the American People that they do things in the Peoples best interest when we know they do not.

2. The Dems being pussies and being afraid that they will lose all of their votes if it passes without Republican buy in.

3. Congress as a whole not saying WE WILL USE THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN ALSO.

4. The Republican Party pushing a ton of fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD as we like to call it) on a plan that really at it's core, makes sense...

If you pay less in taxes for the addition of healthcare which is just as good as what you get from private companies who are only out to make a profit, then you aren't paying more.

But people are scared shitless... No one has any real fact that it won't go well... everyone is just fucking scared to do it.

300 million scared shitless people in this country afraid to do something different, which is insane considering shit is completely fucked up as is.

So YOU GMAFB.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 02:55:42 PM
Oh... I'm not blaming the GOP.

Don't get it twisted... I'm blaming it on 4 total things.

See... unlike you seem to be in this case, I can focus it on the very specific things that I think are fucked up about it.

1. Insurance Companies convincing the American People that they do things in the Peoples best interest when we know they do not.

2. The Dems being pussies and being afraid that they will lose all of their votes if it passes without Republican buy in.

3. Congress as a whole not saying WE WILL USE THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN ALSO.

4. The Republican Party pushing a ton of fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD as we like to call it) on a plan that really at it's core, makes sense...

If you pay less in taxes for the addition of healthcare which is just as good as what you get from private companies who are only out to make a profit, then you aren't paying more.

But people are scared shitless... No one has any real fact that it won't go well... everyone is just fucking scared to do it.

300 million scared shitless people in this country afraid to do something different, which is insane considering shit is completely fucked up as is.

So YOU GMAFB.

Did it ever dawn on you or the others that support this monstrosity that the bill itself sucks and maybe that is why no one wants it? 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Kazan on March 11, 2010, 02:58:02 PM
Again who sets the rules and regulations for the insurance companies? Who gave them a monopoly? Yeah thats right the government. So yeah lets just all get on board with the very assholes who created this fucked up mess in the first place. No thanks
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 02:58:14 PM
People were shitting on this Bill before it was even a Bill.

The absolute second that people heard "government healthcare". People such as yourself were all over talking about how terrible it would be... how much it would cost the American tax payer and shitting all over the place.

So while you may have a point that the Bill would or may, or could in fact suck... I don't believe that's at all the problem.

You never even gave the idea a chance... You were very happy with the status quo and many of your compatriots are the same as you... I know, I've  talked to them.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 03:02:30 PM
People were shitting on this Bill before it was even a Bill.

The absolute second that people heard "government healthcare". People such as yourself were all over talking about how terrible it would be... how much it would cost the American tax payer and shitting all over the place.

So while you may have a point that the Bill would or may, or could in fact suck... I don't believe that's at all the problem.

You never even gave the idea a chance... You were very happy with the status quo and many of your compatriots are the same as you... I know, I've  talked to them.


No i am not happy with the status quo as i believe the govt has directly driven price inflation in medical costs. 

I have been on this disaster of a bill since day 1, correct, because it is so invasive, expensive, unconstitutional, and insane. 

Its no my fault MAObama and Stretch decided to put an abortion of a bill together and try to get me to eat it.  That is on them. 

Go to DU, KOS, or other sites and they make the same complaints I do about this POFS bill.  Does that make me a lib or progressive?  Never, but anyone with a brain can see that enacting this solely to MASSAge bams' ego is insane. 

Kill the bill and start over without the bribes, kickbacks, taxes, etc.   
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Kazan on March 11, 2010, 03:04:33 PM
Which brings up my next point, where is the federal governments constitutional authority to provide healthcare? It doesn't exist, and they know the only way they can get control of that as well is to force all Americans to take a bite of the shit burger they are serving up. Because it is a fact not a possibility, a fact that once something like this( no matter how unconstitutional)passes it will be handing around our neck like an albatros forever.

Why you or anyone has any faith that the federal government could actually run something without turning it into fucked useless buracracy is beyond me.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 03:26:14 PM
Have you seen those signs from the tea-party members saying "Don't touch my medicare?"

I'd say that must be working to some extent because a lot of people love that shit...

Obviously you have faith in your military... They run that.

There's the TSA, people seem to be down with that... The CIA, NSA, FAA... All seem to be fully functional.

To me personally, the debate about whether or not the government can run something successfully is another FUD position with no real validity.

Is there a problem with too much spending... YES... the problem is that NEITHER side is willing to cut spending (across the board).

Is your problem with the way things are run or just that they end up costing more tax dollars than you would like?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 03:29:11 PM
Have you seen those signs from the tea-party members saying "Don't touch my medicare?"

I'd say that must be working to some extent because a lot of people love that shit...

Obviously you have faith in your military... They run that.

There's the TSA, people seem to be down with that... The CIA, NSA, FAA... All seem to be fully functional.

To me personally, the debate about whether or not the government can run something successfully is another FUD position with no real validity.

Is there a problem with too much spending... YES... the problem is that NEITHER side is willing to cut spending (across the board).

Is your problem with the way things are run or just that they end up costing more tax dollars than you would like?

Have you seen my posts as a whole, or only the ones bashing MAObama? 

The military does what it does, but it is not efficient.  I dont like 95% of the govt. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 11, 2010, 03:32:23 PM
I'll be honest...

Most of your posts that I have read, are by far, against the democratic party... So, yeah, I'd say at best 10 percent of your posts might be negative towards the Republicans and that is a stretch I feel.

Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 11, 2010, 03:43:34 PM
I'll be honest...

Most of your posts that I have read, are by far, against the democratic party... So, yeah, I'd say at best 10 percent of your posts might be negative towards the Republicans and that is a stretch I feel.



I was thrown off FR in 2005 for bashing Bush and the GOP. 

When and if the GOP comes in and if they pursue similar policies to what we see now, I promise you I will be as vociferous against them as I am against the dems.   
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Skip8282 on March 11, 2010, 04:35:09 PM
There's the TSA, people seem to be down with that... The CIA, NSA, FAA... All seem to be fully functional.

To me personally, the debate about whether or not the government can run something successfully is another FUD position with no real validity.



People are down with the TSA?  Typically everything I read is nothing but negative and I haven't seen anybody liking the TSA.

Here's a USAToday poll where travelers hate them as much as the IRS.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-12-20-tsa-survey_N.htm

CIA, NSA?  Who's happy about that.  The entire reason the DHS exists (another worthless monstrosity) is because the FBI, CIA, and NSA were inept.

Experience is one of the most valuable lessons around so why shouldn't people take into consideration piss poor performance by the government?  It doesn't have to be a sole factor, but it should certainly be a predominant one.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 12, 2010, 02:19:45 PM
I travel constantly and while people may dislike the extra security and shit... I can not say they are doing a bad job.

I can't say the CIA or NSA or FBI has done a poor job either... I feel like they're all doing an adequate job and while 9-11 did occur... You can't stop every lunatic on the planet.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 12, 2010, 02:21:58 PM
I travel constantly and while people may dislike the extra security and shit... I can not say they are doing a bad job.

I can't say the CIA or NSA or FBI has done a poor job either... I feel like they're all doing an adequate job and while 9-11 did occur... You can't stop every lunatic on the planet.

Tell that to Randy Weaver and his wife. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 13, 2010, 06:54:55 AM
You're going to bring up the Ruby Ridge incident? Really? I mean, we're talking about 1 out of thousands of operations the authorized by the DOJ.

Are you forgetting the fact that really, he was a criminal... supplying illegal guns and what not? Involved in white supremacist groups and the like?

If he had done his illegal firearms deals today, he'd be a terrorist and thrown under a hole.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 13, 2010, 07:14:16 AM
You're going to bring up the Ruby Ridge incident? Really? I mean, we're talking about 1 out of thousands of operations the authorized by the DOJ.

Are you forgetting the fact that really, he was a criminal... supplying illegal guns and what not? Involved in white supremacist groups and the like?

If he had done his illegal firearms deals today, he'd be a terrorist and thrown under a hole.

That was but one example, there are countless others if you want me to list them. 

Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 13, 2010, 07:18:07 AM
I'm sure you can... like I said... thousands of DOJ approved operations occur constantly... The ones you will mention are but a few in the thousands.

Sorry man, but the assertion that the government is just completely wrong and that all pieces are just broken doesn't make sense.

Are you now saying that federal law enforcement officials consistently do a poor job?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 13, 2010, 07:19:40 AM
I'm sure you can... like I said... thousands of DOJ approved operations occur constantly... The ones you will mention are but a few in the thousands.

Sorry man, but the assertion that the government is just completely wrong and that all pieces are just broken doesn't make sense.

Are you now saying that federal law enforcement officials consistently do a poor job?

I didnt say all, I said most.  and those that do "work" usually do so at a massive cost to the taxpayer far exceeding the cost of what the private sector could do.  . 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 13, 2010, 01:28:27 PM
The cost is the overhead and bureaucracy... The easy and accurate solution to the government expense problem is simple.

Make people responsible for their jobs or they get fired... Period.

The problem is that people are allowed to perform poorly and it's impossible to fire them.

You fix that issue and government will not cost more than private sector.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 13, 2010, 01:37:23 PM
The cost is the overhead and bureaucracy... The easy and accurate solution to the government expense problem is simple.

Make people responsible for their jobs or they get fired... Period.

The problem is that people are allowed to perform poorly and it's impossible to fire them.

You fix that issue and government will not cost more than private sector.

no kidding but I am not holding my breath. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: OzmO on March 13, 2010, 01:45:54 PM
Nancy Pelosi: Health care was 'hijacked'
Politico ^

Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:16:39 PM by Sub-Driver


Nancy Pelosi: Health care was 'hijacked'

By: Andy Barr March 11, 2010 12:02 PM EST

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi concedes that Democrats allowed the health care reform debate to get “hijacked” by insurance companies and other interests set on killing the bill.

Pelosi, in the second part of an interview with PBS’s Charlie Rose that aired Wednesday, said that early Democratic messaging attempts were plagued by the fact that the House and Senate had yet to come to any agreement about what would be in the bill.

“When you don't (have) a bill yet, anyone can characterize it any way you want,” the California Democrat said. “I think that while there's some well-intentioned people who have concerns about budget and this and that, a lot of that sentiment was hijacked by a concerted effort on the part of the insurance companies and their supporters to make sure we don't a bill.”

“They could characterize it any way they wanted,” she added. “They could focus the debate.”

Pelosi pointed specifically to the focus on a public option as a tactic health care reform opponents used to damage the bill.

“If you are an insurance company, you want to take down public option, right? You want to get rid of that. But as you do it, you want to confuse the issue on health care reform,” Pelosi explained. “So as long as people are talking about this — the public option — they're not talking about what is in the bill for the American people.”


(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...

________________________ ________________________ ______________________

This nasty fucking bitch needs to go. 

Does she even realize that most of know that she and MAObama are the ones FORCING us to buy insurance from these same companies she and bammer attack daily? 




I think this may go don't as one of the greatest BOHICA's in our recent history. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 13, 2010, 01:48:26 PM
Ozmo - I am at a loss at how Obama Pelosi and the liberals and Democrats claiming the insurance companies are out to kill us cant see how insane and ridiculous it appears when it is Obama/Reid/Pelosi forcing an individual mandate to purchase insurance from these very same companies under threat of fines and jail? 

How anyone cannot see the gross contradiction in this is beyond me. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: drkaje on March 13, 2010, 01:57:34 PM
Will insurance companies be able to close down under their model?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: OzmO on March 13, 2010, 01:59:11 PM
Ozmo - I am at a loss at how Obama Pelosi and the liberals and Democrats claiming the insurance companies are out to kill us cant see how insane and ridiculous it appears when it is Obama/Reid/Pelosi forcing an individual mandate to purchase insurance from these very same companies under threat of fines and jail? 

How anyone cannot see the gross contradiction in this is beyond me. 

Because not too many people (including me) have taken the time to really examine it.  Obama has to pass something or he'll surely lose the next election.

So I will have to buy insurance from these companies or i get fined?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: drkaje on March 13, 2010, 02:10:01 PM
Because not too many people (including me) have taken the time to really examine it.  Obama has to pass something or he'll surely lose the next election.

So I will have to buy insurance from these companies or i get fined?

Do you believe private companies can be mandated (legally) to administer a government run healthcare plan?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: OzmO on March 13, 2010, 02:22:21 PM
Do you believe private companies can be mandated (legally) to administer a government run healthcare plan?

Are they already with Medicare?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: drkaje on March 13, 2010, 05:56:32 PM
Are they already with Medicare?

Secondary insurance isn't a good example. They only pay a percentage of a percentage.. after co-pay, until the patient's yearly deductible has been met. Unless you have a very busy practice it wouldn't even be worth billing them except for complying with the laws because getting a clean form through without paying a billing service or relatively expensive software is pretty time consuming.

I'm specifically wondering if insurance companies can do it. Unless you're talking about automatic checks the govt is pretty inept at paying claims in a timely manner. My first year in practice physicians were complaining that TriCare was 2+ years behind in payments and should be avoided like the plague.

My hope is that whatever gets passed is affordable, workable and sustainable. We really don't need a class war or the middle class to get hammered into submission. We definitely don't need 40+ million people to be insured one day and have nothing whatsoever the next.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Dos Equis on March 13, 2010, 06:16:44 PM
I travel constantly and while people may dislike the extra security and shit... I can not say they are doing a bad job.

I can't say the CIA or NSA or FBI has done a poor job either... I feel like they're all doing an adequate job and while 9-11 did occur... You can't stop every lunatic on the planet.

I travel quite a bit too, and I think they do a terrible job.  Nice people, but I think anytime someone wants to sneak something on a plane, they can probably do it.  Meanwhile, law abiding people like me have to darn near strip going through security. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: 240 is Back on March 13, 2010, 06:23:41 PM
randy weaver?

he sold illegally modified shotguns... then started a gunfight with the feds, with his own kids in the middle of it.

poor example of a 'victim' here.  Yes, the ATF were some major a-holes in the 90s and WACO stinks... but he wasn't exactly an angel.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Dos Equis on March 13, 2010, 06:29:44 PM
randy weaver?

he sold illegally modified shotguns... then started a gunfight with the feds, with his own kids in the middle of it.

poor example of a 'victim' here.  Yes, the ATF were some major a-holes in the 90s and WACO stinks... but he wasn't exactly an angel.

There is that version, then there is what actually happened, after the feds killed his family:

Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident, a total of ten counts including the original firearms charges and murder. Attorney Gerry Spence handled Weaver's defense, and argued successfully that Weaver's actions were justifiable as self-defense. The judge dismissed two counts after hearing prosecution witness testimony. The jury acquitted Weaver of all remaining charges except two, one of which the judge set aside. Weaver was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, for which Weaver was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. The reason he failed to appear was due to the fact that he was officially told the court case was on the 20th March when in fact it was on the 20th February. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all criminal charges.[16]

In August 1995, the federal government avoided trial on a civil lawsuit filed by the Weavers, by awarding the three surviving daughters $1,000,000 each and Randy Weaver $100,000 over the deaths of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. The attorney for Kevin Harris pressed Harris' civil suit for damages, although federal officials vowed they would never pay someone who had killed a U.S. Marshal (Harris had been acquitted by a jury trial on grounds of self-defense). In September 2000 after persistent appeals, Harris was awarded a $380,000 settlement from the government.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver#Aftermath_of_the_Ruby_Ridge_incident
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: 240 is Back on March 13, 2010, 06:33:20 PM
you didn't mention the sawed-off shotguns he sold.

Not surprising a birther like yourself would leave out things like details
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Dos Equis on March 13, 2010, 08:00:39 PM
Read the excerpt.  The feds killed his wife and one of his kids.  He was acquitted in a criminal trial.  He sued the government and they paid his surviving family members millions. 

Not that the facts matter to you. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: drkaje on March 14, 2010, 05:50:30 AM
Read the excerpt.  The feds killed his wife and one of his kids.  He was acquitted in a criminal trial.  He sued the government and they paid his surviving family members millions. 

Not that the facts matter to you. 

Why is it only considered collateral damage when we drop bombs in distant lands?
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 14, 2010, 07:07:21 AM
Why is it only considered collateral damage when we drop bombs in distant lands?

Just one of those things I guess.

However, i like how Beach utterly destroyed 240 above.  Hysterical. 
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 14, 2010, 10:02:31 AM
PELOSI = OWNED

Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 14, 2010, 12:41:09 PM
Even Weaver does not deny he sold illegal shotguns.

That's a well documented fact.

The entire gun battle however, and how it made the government "look", especially considering how the death toll ended up, is why there was no criminal trial.

I don't believe a trial even occurred after that mess.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Skip8282 on March 14, 2010, 02:20:36 PM
Even Weaver does not deny he sold illegal shotguns.

That's a well documented fact.



Maybe it's not well documented because you don't have it right.  He's never denied selling shotguns.  He has repeatedly denied selling illegal shotguns.  He claimed the gov't shortened the barrels after he sold them.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Dos Equis on March 14, 2010, 08:35:18 PM
Even Weaver does not deny he sold illegal shotguns.

That's a well documented fact.

The entire gun battle however, and how it made the government "look", especially considering how the death toll ended up, is why there was no criminal trial.

I don't believe a trial even occurred after that mess.

?

Quote

Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident, a total of ten counts including the original firearms charges and murder. Attorney Gerry Spence handled Weaver's defense, and argued successfully that Weaver's actions were justifiable as self-defense. The judge dismissed two counts after hearing prosecution witness testimony. The jury acquitted Weaver of all remaining charges except two, one of which the judge set aside. Weaver was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, for which Weaver was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. The reason he failed to appear was due to the fact that he was officially told the court case was on the 20th March when in fact it was on the 20th February. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all criminal charges.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver#Aftermath_of_the_Ruby_Ridge_incident
/quote]
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 15, 2010, 08:48:58 PM
I'm talking about a trial relating to his illegal shotgun sale.

The trial was about the incident in ruby ridge... not the previous sales of illegal shotguns which he did do and is, as I've said previously, documented.
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: 240 is Back on March 15, 2010, 08:53:57 PM
After that PR nightmare, there was NO WAY the govt wanted a big trial for the weaver case.  Way easier to give up $5 mil and end the issue, than to have a 3-year court trial at a cost of millions of dollars, with plenty of opportunities and targets for militant types to get riled up at.  Just pay the money and let the case die.  The guy suffered enough.


Yes, the feds definitely over-reacted in that case.  However, he should have surrendered, got a lawyer, and sued the pants off them.  Putting your kin in the middle of a gunfight is just not the right move.  you surrender, get representation, and you fvck them mercilessly in court.  He had rights.  But letting shit get ugly like that is not a good move.  Enduring a standoff - those poor kids having to sit there with their mother's body for several days... very horrible.  Just surrender and get F Lee bailey...
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: Dos Equis on March 15, 2010, 09:23:55 PM
I'm talking about a trial relating to his illegal shotgun sale.

The trial was about the incident in ruby ridge... not the previous sales of illegal shotguns which he did do and is, as I've said previously, documented.

"Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident, a total of ten counts including the original firearms charges and murder."
Title: Re: Nancy Pelosi: Health care was "hijacked by Health Insurance Companies"
Post by: tu_holmes on March 15, 2010, 10:06:48 PM
Then I'm corrected... That doesn't change that there is still tons of documented evidence that shows he sold illegal shotguns.