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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Butterbean on March 21, 2010, 01:27:12 PM
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Saying President Obama signed an Executive Order excluding public monies from paying for abortions.
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obama still has to sign it stells, he will sign it after it passes if im not mistaken...What I think will likely happen is obama will make a token gesture and sign something that equates to nothing more than a publicity stunt leaving the door open for publicly funded abortions.
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obama still has to sign it stells, he will sign it after it passes if im not mistaken...What I think will likely happen is obama will make a token gesture and sign something that equates to nothing more than a publicity stunt leaving the door open for publicly funded abortions.
Some Congressman buddy of STupak's was interviewed and said he had spoken to him in the last hour and told him that another Executive Order could be signed rescinding the first...and a former Governor said legislation could be passed to rescind the EO as well
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Some Congressman buddy of STupak's was interviewed and said he had spoken to him in the last hour and told him that another Executive Order could be signed rescinding the first...and a former Governor said legislation could be passed to rescind the EO as well
correct I think they were saying that even if obama signed an executive order that he could simply sign another one to rescend the first. I could be wrong but I dont think he has signed anything yet in regards to this bill and abortion as this bill isnt law as of yet. He would have to wait to see what the final bill looks like as the final language may change due to ammendments made in the senate.
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isn't abortion part of a seperate "attached" bill and not the main thing?
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That's a good compromise. Even though EO's can be rescinded, Obama would be committing political suicide if he did that.
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isn't abortion part of a seperate "attached" bill and not the main thing?
ahhh I think the original stupak language was an ammendment to one of the bills. I dont think any language specifically addresses the subject in the health care bill only relys on the hyde language which has to be approved every year I believe or couple years. I think the reps will try to get an ammendment in the senate though when this bill goes to them.
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Stupak Announces Deal With White House on Abortion Funding Ban
FOXNews.com
updated March 21, 2010
Stupak Announces Deal With White House on Abortion Funding Bantaxpayer money goes to abortion services, Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., who led Democratic lawmakers opposed to the Senate bill, said Sunday.
Stupak made the announcement surrounded by a handful of Democratic lawmakers who had held out their "yes" votes on a massive health insurance overhaul set for a vote on Sunday over abortion. The swing appeared to give Democratic leaders enough votes to pass the 10-year, nearly $1 trillion legislation.
"I'm pleased to announce that we have an agreement, and it's with the help of the president and the speaker we were able to come to an agreement to protect the sanctity of life in the health care reform. There will be no public funding for abortion in this legislation," Stupak said.
Stupak announced support for the bill as the White House issued its statement about the executive order.
The president "will be issuing an executive order after the passage of the health insurance reform law that will reaffirm its consistency with longstanding restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion," reads a statement from White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer.
"While the legislation as written maintains current law, the executive order provides additional safeguards to ensure that the status quo is upheld and enforced, and that the health care legislation's restrictions against the public funding of abortions cannot be circumvented," the statement reads.
Opponents say an executive order does not have the force of law that legislation would provide.
"That is not the rule of law. That's the rule of man. One man can sign an executive order and one man can repeal that again, the president of the United States," said Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis. "So for those of us in the pro-life movement and the -- and my Democrat friends who are pro-life, that doesn't cut it. A executive order is not something that is permanent law."
House Minority Leader John Boehner added that the executive order "can direct members of the executive branch, it cannot direct the private sector."
"Because of Roe v. Wade, courts have interpreted the decision as a statutory mandate that the government must provide federal funding for elective abortion in through federal programs. In other words, no executive order or regulation can override a statutory mandate unless Congress passes a law that prohibits federal funding from being used in this manner," Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a statement.
Stupak had frustrated Democratic liberals who said they were fine with the language in the Senate health care that stipulated taxpayer money for abortions not be used by private insurance plans operating in a new insurance marketplace.
Opponents of the Senate bill, however, had wanted more rigorous language like that which had passed the House in November under the "Stupak amendment." Stupak said statutory language would've been preferable but would not pass the Senate.
But concerns seemed to be allayed by the executive order even though the Senate bill creates a tricky accounting technique to separate out federal subsidies for premiums on plans that allow abortion coverage and those that do not.
He added that he was confident the language would not be rescinded by Obama.
The president "said there will be no federal dollars for abortion. The president has put his commitment in writing," Stupak said. "This is a very extensive order, he does not plan on rescinding it."
Health insurance provided by government-run exchanges is not set to go into effect until 2014, after the 2012 election.
Stupak said he was confident the changes in the language would give House Speaker Nancy Pelosi the numbers she needed to pass the bill universally opposed by Republicans though he hesitated on the count.
"We're well past 216," he said, later adding, "I think we're pretty darn close to having 216, yes."
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Well there goes the neighborhood.
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A text of the pending executive order follows:
Executive Order
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ensuring enforcement and implementation of abortion restrictions in the patient protection and affordable care act
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” (approved March __, 2010), I hereby order as follows:
Section 1. Policy.
Following the recent passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“the Act”), it is necessary to establish an adequate enforcement mechanism to ensure that Federal funds are not used for abortion services (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered), consistent with a longstanding Federal statutory restriction that is commonly known as the Hyde Amendment. The purpose of this Executive Order is to establish a comprehensive, government-wide set of policies and procedures to achieve this goal and to make certain that all relevant actors—Federal officials, state officials (including insurance regulators) and health care providers—are aware of their responsibilities, new and old.
The Act maintains current Hyde Amendment restrictions governing abortion policy and extends those restrictions to the newly-created health insurance exchanges. Under the Act, longstanding Federal laws to protect conscience (such as the Church Amendment, 42 U.S.C. §300a-7, and the Weldon Amendment, Pub. L. No. 111-8, §508(d)(1) (2009)) remain intact and new protections prohibit discrimination against health care facilities and health care providers because of an unwillingness to provide, pay for, provide coverage of, or refer for abortions.
Numerous executive agencies have a role in ensuring that these restrictions are enforced, including the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and the Office of Personnel Management (OPM).
Section 2. Strict Compliance with Prohibitions on Abortion Funding in Health Insurance Exchanges. The Act specifically prohibits the use of tax credits and cost-sharing reduction payments to pay for abortion services (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered) in the health insurance exchanges that will be operational in 2014. The Act also imposes strict payment and accounting requirements to ensure that Federal funds are not used for abortion services in exchange plans (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered) and requires state health insurance commissioners to ensure that exchange plan funds are segregated by insurance companies in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles, OMB funds management circulars, and accounting guidance provided by the Government Accountability Office.
I hereby direct the Director of OMB and the Secretary of HHS to develop, within 180 days of the date of this Executive Order, a model set of segregation guidelines for state health insurance commissioners to use when determining whether exchange plans are complying with the Act’s segregation requirements, established in Section 1303 of the Act, for enrollees receiving Federal financial assistance. The guidelines shall also offer technical information that states should follow to conduct independent regular audits of insurance companies that participate in the health insurance exchanges. In developing these model guidelines, the Director of OMB and the Secretary of HHS shall consult with executive agencies and offices that have relevant expertise in accounting principles, including, but not limited to, the Department of the Treasury, and with the Government Accountability Office. Upon completion of those model guidelines, the Secretary of HHS should promptly initiate a rulemaking to issue regulations, which will have the force of law, to interpret the Act’s segregation requirements, and shall provide guidance to state health insurance commissioners on how to comply with the model guidelines.
Section 3. Community Health Center Program.
The Act establishes a new Community Health Center (CHC) Fund within HHS, which provides additional Federal funds for the community health center program. Existing law prohibits these centers from using federal funds to provide abortion services (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered), as a result of both the Hyde Amendment and longstanding regulations containing the Hyde language. Under the Act, the Hyde language shall apply to the authorization and appropriations of funds for Community Health Centers under section 10503 and all other relevant provisions. I hereby direct the Secretary of HHS to ensure that program administrators and recipients of Federal funds are aware of and comply with the limitations on abortion services imposed on CHCs by existing law. Such actions should include, but are not limited to, updating Grant Policy Statements that accompany CHC grants and issuing new interpretive rules.
Section 4. General Provisions.
(a) Nothing in this Executive Order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect: (i) authority granted by law or presidential directive to an agency, or the head thereof; or (ii) functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This Executive Order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.
(c) This Executive Order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity against the United States, its departments, agencies, entities, officers, employees or agents, or any other person.
THE WHITE HOUSE,
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/21/text-white-house-on-abortion-related-executive-order/?hpt=T1
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Fat Lady is singing! :D :D :D
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Fat Lady is singing! :D :D :D
of course...fat lazy bitch wants free health care without working for it
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of course...fat lazy bitch wants free health care without working for it
lol
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Saying President Obama signed an Executive Order excluding public monies from paying for abortions.
hey bro
where ya been dude?
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hey bro
where ya been dude?
::)
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::)
I didnt get that, stells is a woman straw
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I didnt get that, stells is a woman straw
bum knows what I'm talking about
I've never met stella so I have no idea if he/she is a man or woman
how do you know?
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has anyone heard the story that some other congressman called Stupak a baby killer?
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bum knows what I'm talking about
I've never met stella so I have no idea if he/she is a man or woman
how do you know?
im lost...well first she says she is a woman, crazy i know ;)
second there are a few pics of her floating around and she sure looks like a woman, a quite nice looking woman if I do say so myself
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im lost...well first she says she is a woman, crazy i know ;)
second there are a few pics of her floating around and she sure looks like a woman, a quite nice looking woman if I do say so myself
I don't know if I've ever used this word on the board (if I have I don't remember), but only a complete douchebag would pick a fight or have a problem with Stella. ::) And yes "Straw Man," I'm talking about you.
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im lost...well first she says she is a woman, crazy i know ;)
second there are a few pics of her floating around and she sure looks like a woman, a quite nice looking woman if I do say so myself
ok - i have no proof that he/she is a guy or a girl
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I don't know if I've ever used this word on the board (if I have I don't remember), but only a complete douchebag would pick a fight or have a problem with Stella. ::) And yes "Straw Man," I'm talking about you.
how I am picking a fight with her/him?
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I don't know if I've ever used this word on the board (if I have I don't remember), but only a complete douchebag would pick a fight or have a problem with Stella. ::) And yes "Straw Man," I'm talking about you.
agreed stella is just to nice to fight with, have never seen her post one mean comment...plus she is my getbig G-MA ;)
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agreed stella is just to nice to fight with, have never seen her post one mean comment...plus she is my getbig G-MA ;)
who's fighting with her/him?
I like Stella whatever he or she is
she or he has always been nice to me
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who's fighting with her/him?
I like Stella whatever he or she is
she or he has always been nice to me
I was simply agreeing the with beach, not saying you are
what makes you think that she maybe a he?
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I was simply agreeing the with beach, not saying you are
what makes you think that she maybe a he?
My only reason is thtat Stella referred to me as "bro" in a response in another thread and I've never had a girl call me bro before.
Usually you have to be a bro to call someone a bro but it seems like an easy mistake to make if you're a guy pretending to be a girl on a message board
Other than that I have no clue whether Stella is a guy or girl and no proof of either
Sorry bro, I went and cleaned some spots on the carpet trying to post my last post. ::)
Hope it answered your above first question but now you are asking another I think?
Least of these (brothers of mine) = Jews
Your second question (first part) above= all unbelievers; righteous = believers
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My only reason is thtat Stella referred to me as "bro" in a response in another thread and I've never had a girl call me bro before.
Usually you have to be a bro to call someone a bro but it seems like an easy mistake to make if you're a guy pretending to be a girl on a message board
Other than that I have no clue whether Stella is a guy or girl and no proof of either
LOL pretty crappy logic if you ask me... ;)
again plenty of proof she is a female
we have no proof youre a male perhaps we should start calling you "little miss"?
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LOL pretty crappy logic if you ask me... ;)
again plenty of proof she is a female
we have no proof youre a male perhaps we should start calling you "little miss"?
I don't care either way
I'm just telling you my reason why I think she might be a he
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NOW 'incensed' over anti-abortion executive order
National Organization for Women President Terry O'Neill issued a statement Sunday afternoon slamming President Obama, saying that he had broken his faith with women by agreeing to issue an executive order that prohibits federal funding for abortions.
"The National Organization for Women is incensed that President Barack Obama agreed today to issue an executive order designed to appease a handful of anti-choice Democrats who have held up health care reform in an effort to restrict women's access to abortion. Through this order, the president has announced he will lend the weight of his office and the entire executive branch to the anti-abortion measures included in the Senate bill, which the House is now prepared to pass.
"President Obama campaigned as a pro-choice president, but his actions today suggest that his commitment to reproductive health care is shaky at best. Contrary to language in the draft of the executive order and repeated assertions in the news, the Hyde Amendment is not settled law - it is an illegitimate tack-on to an annual must-pass appropriations bill. NOW has a longstanding objection to Hyde and, in fact, was looking forward to working with this president and Congress to bring an end to these restrictions. We see now that we have our work cut out for us far beyond what we ever anticipated. The message we have received today is that it is acceptable to negotiate health care on the backs of women, and we couldn't disagree more."
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/21/now-incensed-over-anti-abortion-executive-order/?hpt=T1
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Gotta love those anti abortion folks
Dumber than ever
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/stupak-called-baby-killer-on-h.html?wprss=44
Stupak called 'baby-killer' on House floor
Updated 12:12 a.m.
By Paul Kane
Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.) acknowledged late Sunday night that a Republican yelled "baby killer" as Democratic Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) urged his fellow Democrats to vote down a Republican amendment on abortion services in the health-care legislation.
The remark drew immediate shouts of derision from the Democratic side of the aisle, as Stupak is considered the leading anti-abortion Democrat and held out his support for the legislation until President Obama issued an executive order restating the ban on federal funding of abortion.
Campbell, initially suspected as the lawmaker who shouted the phrase, told reporters that he didn't say it and believed that it came from a member sitting a row behind him, where the Texas Republicans usually sit. Campbell said he heard "a Southern accent".
"The people who know won't give it up," Campbell told reporters.
He said the remark was "clear as a bell."
Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas) said he heard the remark and said it did come from in the area of where the Texas and California delegations sit. He said he believes he knows who yelled it, but declined to say anymore.
"I can make a guess," Barton said.
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hey bro
where ya been dude?
What's happening Son? Been around!
How you doin Homie :)
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hell NOOOOO public money should not pay for abortions
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What's happening Son? Been around!
How you doin Homie :)
Hey Bro, good to have you back dude
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hell NOOOOO public money should not pay for abortions
Public money alreayd pays for abortions
The health insurance plan that Stupak and his family and hundreds of thousands of other Federal employeess enjoy covers abortions.
Where does the money come from to pay for that insurance?
US Taxpayers
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Gotta love those anti abortion folks
Dumber than ever
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/stupak-called-baby-killer-on-h.html?wprss=44
Stupak called 'baby-killer' on House floor
Updated 12:12 a.m.
By Paul Kane
Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.) acknowledged late Sunday night that a Republican yelled "baby killer" as Democratic Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) urged his fellow Democrats to vote down a Republican amendment on abortion services in the health-care legislation.
The remark drew immediate shouts of derision from the Democratic side of the aisle, as Stupak is considered the leading anti-abortion Democrat and held out his support for the legislation until President Obama issued an executive order restating the ban on federal funding of abortion.
Campbell, initially suspected as the lawmaker who shouted the phrase, told reporters that he didn't say it and believed that it came from a member sitting a row behind him, where the Texas Republicans usually sit. Campbell said he heard "a Southern accent".
"The people who know won't give it up," Campbell told reporters.
He said the remark was "clear as a bell."
Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas) said he heard the remark and said it did come from in the area of where the Texas and California delegations sit. He said he believes he knows who yelled it, but declined to say anymore.
"I can make a guess," Barton said.
Abortion is the killing of a baby.I find it laughable that libs put in a 25,000 dollar fine for anyone smashing the egg of a bald eagle but think sluaughtering a kid in the womb is ok.
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Abortion is the killing of a baby.I find it laughable that libs put in a 25,000 dollar fine for anyone smashing the egg of a bald eagle but think sluaughtering a kid in the womb is ok.
If abortion is killing a baby then an embryo must be a baby
we can freeze embryos so I guess we can freeze babies too
I hope Stupak get's harrassed for the rest of his life and called baby killer wherever he goes.
Maybe someone like you will even murder him in the name of righteous christians like yourself
You're in favor of murdering doctors so maybe you will actually have the balls to put your words into action and do the deed yourself instead of just being a loud mouth pussy on a message board
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Public money alreayd pays for abortions
The health insurance plan that Stupak and his family and hundreds of thousands of other Federal employeess enjoy covers abortions.
Where does the money come from to pay for that insurance?
US Taxpayers
Straw...facts and NeoCons do not mix. :D :D :D
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If abortion is killing a baby then an embryo must be a baby
we can freeze embryos so I guess we can freeze babies too
I hope Stupak get's harrassed for the rest of his life and called baby killer wherever he goes.
Maybe someone like you will even murder him in the name of righteous christians like yourself
You're in favor of murdering doctors so maybe you will actually have the balls to put your words into action and do the deed yourself instead of just being a loud mouth pussy on a message board
Im in favor of people winning the lottery also but I dont think I will win that either.Im a huge fan of pro bodybuilders but I wont be one of those either.Now,why you call me a Christian is beyond my ability to understand.NOT ONCE have I ever claimed that or posted anything proclaiming that.
Now,you can believe what you want to about abortion or babies.I believe its a baby from the time of conception.Now,do you believe your mother had the right to abort you.Do you believe that decision was in her hands?I dont,but perhaps you do.Once again,25,000 dollar fine to smash a bald eagles egg but killing babies is fine.
Lastly,Im married with a son.HOWEVER know this,if ANYTHING happened to them.I WILL BE BLOWING UP ABORTION CLINICS!!!!Im telling you that on a public forum right now,I will kill abortion doctors if anything ever happened to my son.There ,are you satisfied?
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Ron Paul: Stupak Deal Unconstitutional
Monday, 22 Mar 2010
Rep. Ron Paul, R-Tex., blasted the so-called "Stupak deal" as "unconstitutional." "It's an outrage," he says. "Why does the Congress allow the executive branch to write law? Republicans do it, Democrats do it, it's lawlessness. Congress should be curtailing that rather than encouraging it," according to a report in the National Review Online.
The executive order in question reads: “it is necessary to establish an adequate enforcement mechanism to ensure that Federal funds are not used for abortion services (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered), consistent with a longstanding Federal statutory restriction that is commonly known as the Hyde Amendment.”
The order further requires the Department of Health and Human Services to draft guidelines which states must follow to ensure that federal funds don’t pay for abortion coverage. Any coverage under the new state insurance exchanges would have to be paid for by the insured.
The executive order was published by the White House minutes before Congressman Bart Stupak, D-Mich., declared that he and his bloc of pro-life Democrats would be providing the missing votes to allow the healthcare bill to pass Sunday evening by a 219-212 margin.
http://newsmax.com/InsideCover/Ron-Paul-stupak-Deal/2010/03/22/id/353454
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Im in favor of people winning the lottery also but I dont think I will win that either.Im a huge fan of pro bodybuilders but I wont be one of those either.Now,why you call me a Christian is beyond my ability to understand.NOT ONCE have I ever claimed that or posted anything proclaiming that.
Now,you can believe what you want to about abortion or babies.I believe its a baby from the time of conception.Now,do you believe your mother had the right to abort you.Do you believe that decision was in her hands?I dont,but perhaps you do.Once again,25,000 dollar fine to smash a bald eagles egg but killing babies is fine.
Lastly,Im married with a son.HOWEVER know this,if ANYTHING happened to them.I WILL BE BLOWING UP ABORTION CLINICS!!!!Im telling you that on a public forum right now,I will kill abortion doctors if anything ever happened to my son.There ,are you satisfied?
what the fuck does something happening to your son have to do with abortion clinics?
If "something" hapens to your son you're going to strike out against abortion clinics?
you have advocated the murder of abortion doctors haven't you? If you're in favor of murdering doctors then stop with the lip service and walk your talk
what town do you city and state do you live in?
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you have advocated the murder of abortion doctors haven't you? If you're in favor of murdering doctors then stop with the lip service and walk your talk
Well, you've advocated certain people off themselves. Don't see you setting the example...
Don't let anybody here stop you.
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Well, you've advocated certain people off themselves. Don't see you setting the example...
Don't let anybody here stop you.
If I suffered the extreme paranoid delusions of some people who post on this site or was filled with the extreme self loathing and fear of others I might consider it.
I'm sure of course that Billy doesn't really want to see more doctors murdered and was only joking about being glad about others who have already been murdered.
right Billy?
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what the fuck does something happening to your son have to do with abortion clinics?
If "something" hapens to your son you're going to strike out against abortion clinics?
you have advocated the murder of abortion doctors haven't you? If you're in favor of murdering doctors then stop with the lip service and walk your talk
what town do you city and state do you live in?
LOL for someone who wont even tell us what you do for a living after I was so forthcoming with details in my life you sure ask a lot of personal questions... ::)
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LOL for someone who wont even tell us what you do for a living after I was so forthcoming with details in my life you sure ask a lot of personal questions... ::)
that was your choice
I see no value in it
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that was your choice
I see no value in it
LOL the value is showing respect to those youre conversing with...I.E. if i answer your questions you should be respectful and answer mine... ::)
otherwise its just you talking at ppl not conversing...you seem to do this quite a bit
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LOL the value is showing respect to those youre conversing with...I.E. if i answer your questions you should be respectful and answer mine... ::)
otherwise its just you talking at ppl not conversing...you seem to do this quite a bit
I think I treat people fairly and always (at least in the begining) try to have an actual dialogue
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I think I treat people fairly and always (at least in the begining) try to have an actual dialogue
well then would you kindly tell us all what you do? and what your area of expertise is?
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well then would you kindly tell us all what you do? and what your area of expertise is?
why do you care?
why should I?
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why do you care?
why should I?
just curious...
b/c i was forth coming when you asked me about mine even though you turned and ridiculed me for it :D I promise not to make fun...Im just honestly curious
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just curious...
b/c i was forth coming when you asked me about mine even though you turned and ridiculed me for it :D I promise not to make fun...Im just honestly curious
yeah I felt bad about giving you shit and I said so
to tell you the truth I run an abortion clinic
actually a few abortion clinics
I'm thinking of franchising
you'd be amazed how much money you can save when you hire illegal aliens to perform the abortions
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yeah I felt bad about giving you shit and I said so
to tell you the truth I run an abortion clinic
actually a few abortion clinics
I'm thinking of franchising
you'd be amazed how much money you can save when you hire illegal aliens to perform the abortions
::) ::) ::)
again you arent conversing youre talking at me...
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::) ::) ::)
again you arent conversing youre talking at me...
okay
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If I suffered the extreme paranoid delusions of some people who post on this site or was filled with the extreme self loathing and fear of others I might consider it.
I'm sure of course that Billy doesn't really want to see more doctors murdered and was only joking about being glad about others who have already been murdered.
right Billy?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!I want to see as many of them killed as possible!!!!!I find it funny that you wring your hands over a statement like that but would think it was fine for Americans to kill Nazis at the end of WW2.Quite frankly I see no difference between a Nazi death camp doctor and an abortionist.I laughed my ass off when Tiller got smoked,I only wish they could reanimate them so he could be killed again.I howled with delight when Slepian was killed.I find it as satisfying as when the US kills a muslim terrorist,in fact I see no difference between the two.Hopefully Tiller is burning for all eternity and the babies he killed are roasting him on a spit.
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!I want to see as many of them killed as possible!!!!!I find it funny that you wring your hands over a statement like that but would think it was fine for Americans to kill Nazis at the end of WW2.Quite frankly I see no difference between a Nazi death camp doctor and an abortionist.I laughed my ass off when Tiller got smoked,I only wish they could reanimate them so he could be killed again.I howled with delight when Slepian was killed.I find it as satisfying as when the US kills a muslim terrorist,in fact I see no difference between the two.Hopefully Tiller is burning for all eternity and the babies he killed are roasting him on a spit.
IF YOU MUST LIVE BY THE SWORD - THAN YOU SHALL DIE BY THE SWORD.
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!I want to see as many of them killed as possible!!!!!I find it funny that you wring your hands over a statement like that but would think it was fine for Americans to kill Nazis at the end of WW2.Quite frankly I see no difference between a Nazi death camp doctor and an abortionist.I laughed my ass off when Tiller got smoked,I only wish they could reanimate them so he could be killed again.I howled with delight when Slepian was killed.I find it as satisfying as when the US kills a muslim terrorist,in fact I see no difference between the two.Hopefully Tiller is burning for all eternity and the babies he killed are roasting him on a spit.
When did I ever say it was fine for Americans to kill Nazis at the end of WWII?
are you talking about actual combat or simpy murdering people?
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Well, you've advocated certain people off themselves. Don't see you setting the example...
Don't let anybody here stop you.
here you go Skip
here's a great example of the sane and rational political discourse from some members of this site:
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!I want to see as many of them killed as possible!!!!!I find it funny that you wring your hands over a statement like that but would think it was fine for Americans to kill Nazis at the end of WW2.Quite frankly I see no difference between a Nazi death camp doctor and an abortionist.I laughed my ass off when Tiller got smoked,I only wish they could reanimate them so he could be killed again.I howled with delight when Slepian was killed.I find it as satisfying as when the US kills a muslim terrorist,in fact I see no difference between the two.Hopefully Tiller is burning for all eternity and the babies he killed are roasting him on a spit.
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here you go Skip
here's a great example of the sane and rational political discourse from some members of this site:
Bro - you argued that spending money on condoms was a good use of the stim bill money and that barney frank's boyfriend running a gay whorehouse out of his apartment was no big deal. you are the last person to talk about anyone elses' posts.
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Bro - you argued that spending money on condoms was a good use of the stim bill money and that barney frank's boyfriend running a gay whorehouse out of his apartment was no big deal. you are the last person to talk about anyone elses' posts.
find quotes where I said that
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find quotes where I said that
::) ::)
We only spent page after page after page on this. Dont play dumb.
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::) ::)
We only spent page after page after page on this. Dont play dumb.
I'm not playing dumb dipshit.
I never said what you wrote about Barney Frank (I know that for sure).
The condom thing was probably about some job that was created or retained but again don't recall aything like you've written
go find the quotes and then tell me what it's got to do with taking pleasure and advocating murder
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I'm not playing dumb dipshit.
I never said what you wrote about Barney Frank (I know that for sure).
The condom thing was probably about some job that was created or retained but again don't recall aything like you've written
go find the quotes and then tell me what it's got to do with taking pleasure and advocating murder
You were talking about posters having irrational and ridiculous beliefs. Probably 75% of people would qualify your two ideas, that on spending money on condoms in the stim bill and barney franks boyfriends' whorehouse as being in the same league as those you point your finger at.
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You were talking about posters having irrational and ridiculous beliefs. Probably 75% of people would qualify your two ideas, that on spending money on condoms in the stim bill and barney franks boyfriends' whorehouse as being in the same league as those you point your finger at.
find the quotes where I said what you've claimed I said or you're a fucking liar.
can you I make it any more clear for you?
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find the quotes where I said what you've claimed I said or you're a fucking liar.
can you I make it any more clear for you?
When I have time, that was back around Feb of last year.
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Sorry your so upset a scum bag like Tiller got smoked,a man that murdered 60,000 babies.He made Joseph Mengele look like a Sunday school picknicker.Like I said,I wish they would dig him up,hang his corpse from a tree and let us hit like a piniatta.
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I fucking love Slayer. They even did a Pro-Life song about this.
Straw - listen to these lyrics and get a clue.
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333 / Billy
great job with the sane rational political dialogue
why would anyone ever think that this board is a waste of time
It's not every day you can talk to raving lunatics and homicidal maniacs
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333 / Billy
great job with the sane rational political dialogue
why would anyone ever think that this board is a waste of time
It's not every day you can talk to raving lunatics and homicidal maniacs
Seriously, I dont get to talk about issues with LGBT progressives whose only complaint is that we are not moving faster in the socialist direction. I love this board!
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Seriously, I dont get to talk about issues with LGBT progressives whose only complaint is that we are not moving faster in the socialist direction. I love this board!
who the fuck brought up LGBT in this thread
We're talking about baby killers
right Billy?
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who the fuck brought up LGBT in this thread
We're talking about baby killers
right Billy?
Stupac is a fucking sell out who pretends to be pro life but is pro death just like that filthy Obama who not only supports abortion in EVERY circumstance including the day of the birth but actually supports infanticide if the baby survives the abortion.Obama says let the living baby die.Yeah,Im homicidal.We have a guy who supports infantacide running the dam country.Too bad his mother didnt abort him.
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Stupac is a fucking sell out who pretends to be pro life but is pro death just like that filthy Obama who not only supports abortion in EVERY circumstance including the day of the birth but actually supports infanticide if the baby survives the abortion.Obama says let the living baby die.Yeah,Im homicidal.We have a guy who supports infantacide running the dam country.Too bad his mother didnt abort him.
keep up the good work
You sound more sane and rational with each new post
hey 333 - you better pick up the pace.
I think Billy is gunning for your spot as the craziest person on this board
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keep up the good work
You sound more sane and rational with each new post
hey 333 - you better pick up the pace.
I think Billy is gunning for your spot as the craziest person on this board
Please show me where that post had one factual error.You cant!!!!So ,instead,just like a typical lib you call names.Obama voted for that bill at least twice when he was in the state senate in Ill.He voted to let the baby die if it survived an abortion.THATS A FACT,YOU CANT DISPUTE IT!!!!!!I dare you you to show me where that isnt 100% true.
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Please show me where that post had one factual error.You cant!!!!So ,instead,just like a typical lib you call names.Obama voted for that bill at least twice when he was in the state senate in Ill.He voted to let the baby die if it survived an abortion.THATS A FACT,YOU CANT DISPUTE IT!!!!!!I dare you you to show me where that isnt 100% true.
this entire post is factually incorrect - just starting with the part about Stupak being pro-death.
that's not only a complete lie but it's fucking ridiculous. that guy is a die hard pro-life christian
Stupac is a fucking sell out who pretends to be pro life but is pro death just like that filthy Obama who not only supports abortion in EVERY circumstance including the day of the birth but actually supports infanticide if the baby survives the abortion.Obama says let the living baby die.Yeah,Im homicidal.We have a guy who supports infantacide running the dam country.Too bad his mother didnt abort him.
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this entire post is factually incorrect - just starting with the part about Stupak being pro-death.
that's not only a complete lie but it's fucking ridiculous. that guy is a die hard pro-life christian
::) ::)
He admitted on Meygn Kelly last night that he knows the EO Obama promised is bs and can be rescinded. Planned parenthood said the same thing.
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::) ::)
He admitted on Meygn Kelly last night that he knows the EO Obama promised is bs and can be rescinded. Planned parenthood said the same thing.
so you're saying Stupak really is a secret baby killer and that whole pro-life christian thing was just a ruse?
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so you're saying Stupak really is a secret baby killer and that whole pro-life christian thing was just a ruse?
I'm saying that he folded under the pressure at the end and really did not stick up for his beliefs.
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I'm saying that he folded under the pressure at the end and really did not stick up for his beliefs.
his only goal was to get his face on TV.
his entire argument is a sham.
The female members of his family and hundreds of thousands of federal employees have the option of getting legal elective abortion paid for by tax payers dollars.
If he's got a problem with that then let's see him change the insurance plan that his family has first before he tells others they can't have it.
Let's also be clear that many women who might access the federal plan would most likely be paying for the premiums with their own money so what Stupak wants is to restrict coverage available to people who are using their own money to buy private insurance.
No doubt some woman will get subsidies but then they are just like Stupaks family and the hundreds of thousands of federal employees who get their insurance paid for by you and me and have access to legal, elective abortions
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this entire post is factually incorrect - just starting with the part about Stupak being pro-death.
that's not only a complete lie but it's fucking ridiculous. that guy is a die hard pro-life christian
Yeah sure he is.He had a chance to defund planned parenthood,voted against it.Had a chamnce to stop a health care bill that allows tax payers to fund abortions for the poor,he voted against it.Words mean nothing,deeds mean everything.By his deeds,he is pro abortion.
Now,care to defend Obamas infantacide votes?I doubt it.
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Yeah sure he is.He had a chance to defund planned parenthood,voted against it.Had a chamnce to stop a health care bill that allows tax payers to fund abortions for the poor,he voted against it.Words mean nothing,deeds mean everything.By his deeds,he is pro abortion.
Now,care to defend Obamas infantacide votes?I doubt it.
well he is a Christian so the chances are high that he is also a hypocrite and perhaps even a patholigical liar
Since you think Stupak is pro death (your words) would you advocate that someone should kill him (we know you would never do such a thing) to prevent him for continuing in his surreptitious baby killing agenda?
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his only goal was to get his face on TV.
his entire argument is a sham.
The female members of his family and hundreds of thousands of federal employees have the option of getting legal elective abortion paid for by tax payers dollars.
If he's got a problem with that then let's see him change the insurance plan that his family has first before he tells others they can't have it.
Let's also be clear that many women who might access the federal plan would most likely be paying for the premiums with their own money so what Stupak wants is to restrict coverage available to people who are using their own money to buy private insurance.
No doubt some woman will get subsidies but then they are just like Stupaks family and the hundreds of thousands of federal employees who get their insurance paid for by you and me and have access to legal, elective abortions
I think he and Kucinich look like hacks after this is all said and done.
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well he is a Christian so the chances are high that he is also a hypocrite and perhaps even a patholigical liar
Since you think Stupak is pro death (your words) would you advocate that someone should kill him (we know you would never do such a thing) to prevent him for continuing in his surreptitious baby killing agenda?
No,just because someone supports an issue they dont deserve death.However,those that kill 60,000 babies CLEARLY do deserve it and their death is a mercy killing.
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No,just because someone supports an issue they dont deserve death.However,those that kill 60,000 babies CLEARLY do deserve it and their death is a mercy killing.
I'm going to put aside your own personal definition of the word "baby" for now (we all know a acorn is not a oak tree just like an embryo isn't a baby).
I think you've said you're not a christian (or at least you won't admit you are) so where does your radical anti-abortion stance come from? (and you have to admit that murdering doctors is not part of the mainstream prolife agenda)?
Isn't Stupak responsible for those deaths if he enables such action?
Are there any other law abiding citizens who you advocate murdering?
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I think he and Kucinich look like hacks after this is all said and done.
since when were you a Kucinich fan to begin with or even a Stupak fan for that matter
aren't they both evil Dems helping Obama further his communist agenda?
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since when were you a Kucinich fan to begin with or even a Stupak fan for that matter
aren't they both evil Dems helping Obama further his communist agenda?
i have said from day 1 kucinich was telling the truth on this mess and you could look at my threads. I posted at least 5 threads with his clips as to what obamacare was. I dont agree with his solutions, but he was dead right about what this mess means for taxpayers and I said it many times. That is why I was shocked how he foleded so easily.
Stupak just looks awful IMHO.
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i have said from day 1 kucinich was telling the truth on this mess and you could look at my threads. I posted at least 5 threads with his clips as to what obamacare was. I dont agree with his solutions, but he was dead right about what this mess means for taxpayers and I said it many times. That is why I was shocked how he foleded so easily.
Stupak just looks awful IMHO.
and he was telling the truth about single payer too right?
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and he was telling the truth about single payer too right?
I dont know enough about sinlge payer to make an honest decision about that.
My biggest thing is being able to have the lowest taxes and costs possible for taxpayers and I will be in favor of whatever that is. If you canmake a good case for single payer that it will lower my costs, taxes etc, i am totally open for a look at that.
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I'm going to put aside your own personal definition of the word "baby" for now (we all know a acorn is not a oak tree just like an embryo isn't a baby).
I think you've said you're not a christian (or at least you won't admit you are) so where does your radical anti-abortion stance come from? (and you have to admit that murdering doctors is not part of the mainstream prolife agenda)?
Isn't Stupak responsible for those deaths if he enables such action?
Are there any other law abiding citizens who you advote murdering?
Hmmmm,is an eagle egg an Eagle?Yet its a 25,000 dollar fine if you smash one.Are you saying a bird is more valuable then a human being?
Why are we going after Bin Laden?Did he kill ANYONE here?What laws did he break here?There are MANY MANY people that Id like to see dead.One just died,Ted Kennedy,I hope it was a painful death,although I doubt it as he was probably drunk.Another one just died that I giggled about John Murtha.Now,I never advocated the murder of anyone,I simply celebrate the deaths of people who I feel are enemies of the state.The guy who killed Tiller,should hang for his crimes,he will get a big salute from me for his crime,but we are a land of laws,so he must go.NEVER do I call for anyones death,I simply chose to celebrate when scum bags are slaughtered like dogs.
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Hmmmm,is an eagle egg an Eagle?Yet its a 25,000 dollar fine if you smash one.Are you saying a bird is more valuable then a human being?
Why are we going after Bin Laden?Did he kill ANYONE here?What laws did he break here?There are MANY MANY people that Id like to see dead.One just died,Ted Kennedy,I hope it was a painful death,although I doubt it as he was probably drunk.Another one just died that I giggled about John Murtha.Now,I never advocated the murder of anyone,I simply celebrate the deaths of people who I feel are enemies of the state.The guy who killed Tiller,should hang for his crimes,he will get a big salute from me for his crime,but we are a land of laws,so he must go.NEVER do I call for anyones death,I simply chose to celebrate when scum bags are slaughtered like dogs.
when did I ever compare the value of a human being to an eagle egg (I assume you mean bald eagle but since when do you worry about details?)
eagles can fly
can an eagle egg fly?
you can freeze an embyro
can you freeze a baby?
we can go on like this all day
if you want to believe a microscopic cluster of cells is a baby then thats your choice
you can believe in the Easter Bunny too if you want to but that doesn't justify killing people who don't agree with your belief
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Hmmmm,is an eagle egg an Eagle?Yet its a 25,000 dollar fine if you smash one.Are you saying a bird is more valuable then a human being?
Why are we going after Bin Laden?Did he kill ANYONE here?What laws did he break here?There are MANY MANY people that Id like to see dead.One just died,Ted Kennedy,I hope it was a painful death,although I doubt it as he was probably drunk.Another one just died that I giggled about John Murtha.Now,I never advocated the murder of anyone,I simply celebrate the deaths of people who I feel are enemies of the state.The guy who killed Tiller,should hang for his crimes,he will get a big salute from me for his crime,but we are a land of laws,so he must go.NEVER do I call for anyones death,I simply chose to celebrate when scum bags are slaughtered like dogs.
this is you not advocating murder right?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!I want to see as many of them killed as possible!!!!!I find it funny that you wring your hands over a statement like that but would think it was fine for Americans to kill Nazis at the end of WW2.Quite frankly I see no difference between a Nazi death camp doctor and an abortionist.I laughed my ass off when Tiller got smoked,I only wish they could reanimate them so he could be killed again.I howled with delight when Slepian was killed.I find it as satisfying as when the US kills a muslim terrorist,in fact I see no difference between the two.Hopefully Tiller is burning for all eternity and the babies he killed are roasting him on a spit.
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I want them to die,but Im not telling anyone to do it.I simply celebrate and cheer and giggle when it happens.If they all dies tommorow,and if every clinic blew up Id do a little dance in my living room.
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I dont know enough about sinlge payer to make an honest decision about that.
My biggest thing is being able to have the lowest taxes and costs possible for taxpayers and I will be in favor of whatever that is. If you canmake a good case for single payer that it will lower my costs, taxes etc, i am totally open for a look at that.
Are you f'ng kidding me man
You've been posting virtually nonstop on the healthcare legislation and you actually admit you don't know enough about the single payer concept to make an honest decision
Serious question - when has that ever stopped you before?
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Are you f'ng kidding me man
You've been posting virtually nonstop on the healthcare legislation and you actually admit you don't know enough about the single payer concept to make an honest decision
Serious question - when has that ever stopped you before?
Single payer was never on the table as an option in this present debate. It was only discussed amongst the far left kooks on DU, HP, Kos, etc.
Personally, from what i know so far I would not ever be for it since I think it would explode costs and place the govt in full control of everything, which I dont like. But if someone can show me otherwise, I will look at it.
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Single payer was never on the table as an option in this present debate. It was only discussed amongst the far left kooks on DU, HP, Kos, etc.
Personally, from what i know so far I would not ever be for it since I think it would explode costs and place the govt in full control of everything, which I dont like. But if someone can show me otherwise, I will look at it.
Charles Krauthammer said on the O'Reilly Factor that the reason that Kucinnich and others (screaming for the public option) caved is because Obama got it through their "thick heads", convincing them that this bill is effectively a public option.
And, that's because the private insurance companies will simply be arms of the government, due to excessive regulation.
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Single payer was never on the table as an option in this present debate. It was only discussed amongst the far left kooks on DU, HP, Kos, etc.
Personally, from what i know so far I would not ever be for it since I think it would explode costs and place the govt in full control of everything, which I dont like. But if someone can show me otherwise, I will look at it.
of course it was on the table and discussed and debated (and demonized)
are you really trying to revise history that just happened a few months ago?
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Charles Krauthammer said on the O'Reilly Factor that the reason that Kucinnich and others (screaming for the public option) caved is because Obama got it through their "thick heads", convincing them that this bill is effectively a public option.
And, that's because the private insurance companies will simply be arms of the government, due to excessive regulation.
I already posted a thread on that. We are screwed.
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Charles Krauthammer said on the O'Reilly Factor that the reason that Kucinnich and others (screaming for the public option) caved is because Obama got it through their "thick heads", convincing them that this bill is effectively a public option.
And, that's because the private insurance companies will simply be arms of the government, due to excessive regulation.
have you checked the stock prices of health insurance companies in the last few days.
why would their stock prices go up if the government is going to take them over and/or drive them out of business?
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have you checked the stock prices of health insurance companies in the last few days.
why would their stock prices go up if the government is going to take them over and/or drive them out of business?
Perhaps, it's because they know insurance companies are going to JACK THEIR RATES THROUGH THE ROOF, between now and 2014.
Ever heard of the "dot.com" bubble? At one time, it was BOOMING, then it went bust. Those in the know, maxed their profits and BOUNCED, before the whole thing collapsed.
And the insurance companies will do the same.
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of course it was on the table and discussed and debated (and demonized)
are you really trying to revise history that just happened a few months ago?
Sorry Straw - go read some of the reporting, you libs were played for fools in this and Obbama never intended single payor or anything else. he did that to string to morons along to support this present bs.
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Perhaps, it's because they know insurance companies are going to JACK THEIR RATES THROUGH THE ROOF, between now and 2014.
Ever heard of the "dot.com" bubble? At one time, it was BOOMING, then it went bust. Those in the know, maxed their profits and BOUNCED, before the whole thing collapsed.
And the insurance companies will do the same.
so you're predicting the collapse of private insurance companies?
how long until the first one crashes?
which one is going first?
when should I start shorting?
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have you checked the stock prices of health insurance companies in the last few days.
why would their stock prices go up if the government is going to take them over and/or drive them out of business?
Because the govt, by the threat of the jack booted IRS, is delivering them 30 million new customers and now know we are captive to the system.
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so you're predicting the collapse of private insurance companies?
how long until the first one crashes?
which one is going first?
when should I start shorting?
To answer your first two questions, "Yes", they will collapse. As to when, I'd say within 10 years or less.
What do you think is going to happen, when they're forced to take all these "pre-existing-conditions" cases, without getting the money to cover them.
Why do you think Walgreens is now rejecting Medicaid cases as of mid-April?
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I already posted a thread on that. We are screwed.
wait - so you're agreeing with McWAy's opinion that we have a de facto public option (Obamas sure is sneaky and Kucinich and Weiner are laughing all the way to the Kremlin) and now you know we're screwed.
I thought you said just yesterday you didn't enough about the public option to make a decision but somehow you learned enough about it in the last 15 minutes to know we're screwed?
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wait - so you're agreeing with McWAy's opinion that we have a de facto public option (Obamas sure is sneaky and Kucinich and Weiner are laughing all the way to the Kremlin) and now you know we're screwed.
I thought you said just yesterday you didn't enough about the public option to make a decision but somehow you learned enough about it in the last 15 minutes to know we're screwed?
Thats not what we have Straw. We have the very definition of Facism now and it was delivered by your buddies on the left. These carriers are now basically proxies of the govt and there is NO COST CONTROL WHATSOEVER and now you are left with no option to opt out.
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Thats not what we have Straw. We have the very definition of Facism now and it was delivered by your buddies on the left. These carriers are now basically proxies of the govt and there is NO COST CONTROL WHATSOEVER and now you are left with no option to opt out.
so you're saying you disagree with McWay and that Obama is not sneaking in a backdoor single payer system?
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so you're saying you disagree with McWay and that Obama is not sneaking in a backdoor single payer system?
No, this is intended to collapse the system and obama already said this is what he wants to do.
He admits we need a 10-15 year transition plan before going to single payor. So he is doing a crap plan now intended to collapse the system. Just watch this and about half way through he admits it.
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333 - you're cracking me up man
that first clip is from 2003
when was the second clip (was he even a candidate yet or the nominee).
basically what you're saying is that you do agree with McWay and I guess you're still undecided on whether a single payer system is good or bad.
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333 - you're cracking me up man
that first clip is from 2003
when was the second clip (was he even a candidate yet or the nominee).
basically what you're saying is that you do agree with McWay and I guess you're still undecided on whether a single payer system is good or bad.
Straw - he admited in the second clip what he wants to do.
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Straw - he admited in the second clip what he wants to do.
yeah - hows he gonna do anything in 15 or 20 years when he is limited to 2 terms
btw - what time period was that second clip from?
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yeah - hows he gonna do anything in 15 or 20 years when he is limited to 2 terms
btw - what time period was that second clip from?
Because they are creating a system that by its nature will collapse on to itself and there will be no option left.
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Because they are creating a system that by its nature will collapse on to itself and there will be no option left.
so you're saying at some point there will be a huge shorting opportunity similar to what was available in banking stocks in late 2007 and 2008?
luckily since you know about it now and have warned us we all have the opportunity to get rich and then it won't even matter because we can just go with Rush to Costa Rica or whereever all our doctors will go.
problem solved
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so you're saying at some point there will be a huge shorting opportunity similar to what was available in banking stocks in late 2007 and 2008?
luckily since you know about it now and have warned us we all have the opportunity to get rich and then it won't even matter because we can just go with Rush to Costa Rica or whereever all our doctors will go.
problem solved
Straw this is basic economics and math. They are creating a system destined to collapse all on to itself. Ask Shoot or Kaje.
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Straw this is basic economics and math. They are creating a system destined to collapse all on to itself. Ask Shoot or Kaje.
dr. kaje really knows his stuff, i would def put him up there with larry summers when it comes to sound economic policy. Dr Kaje writes really great stuff for the Harvard business review..
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dr. kaje really knows his stuff, i would def put him up there with larry summers when it comes to sound economic policy. Dr Kaje writes really great stuff for the Harvard business review..
Kaje is a doctor who practices who understands the math behind this nonnsense.
You on the other hand, are a coke fiend looking for a hand out from Obama.
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Kaje is a doctor who practices who understands the math behind this nonnsense.
You on the other hand, are a coke fiend looking for a hand out from Obama.
he's a chiropractor..Most insurance plans don't even pay for Chiropractor visit's if i recall correctly. My current plan does pay for CHR visits...I'm not looking for a hand-out. Like i said i'm utilitarian, so i even have your flotsam interest in mind.
While kaje is a smart, guy...he's not exaclty the end all "source" in this debate
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he's a chiropractor..Most insurance plans don't even pay for Chiropractor visit's if i recall correctly. My current plan does pay for CHR visits...I'm not looking for a hand-out. Like i said i'm utilitarian, so i even have your flotsam interest in mind.
While kaje is a cool, smart, guy...he's not exaclty the end all source in this debate
You are just happy obamacare is going to cover drug addiction.
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You are just happy obamacare is going to cover drug addiction.
I'm not addicted to drugs...Only for rec value... 8)
Lights out
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Besides 333367 you are the one who will win..you currently have a bare-bones plan if i recall correctly, which costs you almost 300 bucks a month..While my plan is a lot better than yours..
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Besides 333367 you are the one who will win..you currently have a bare-bones plan if i recall correctly, which costs you almost 300 bucks a month..While my plan is a lot better than yours..
I work for myself and dont want to pay for a cadiclac plan. I stash money into my SEP and pay for a disability policy and and can cover my deductibles easily.
Go into business for yourself fool and see if you last a week.
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I work for myself and dont want to pay for a cadiclac plan. I stash money into my SEP and pay for a disability policy and and can cover my deductibles easily.
Go into business for yourself fool and see if you last a week.
I don't want to go to business for myself, to much stress. What is your SEP plan invested in? Real estate? Gold?
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Straw this is basic economics and math. They are creating a system destined to collapse all on to itself. Ask Shoot or Kaje.
right man
like I said - thanks to your paranoid delusion (er I mean foresight) we're all going to get filthly rich shorting the healthcare sector.
Thanks man
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right man
like I said - thanks to your paranoid delusion (er I mean foresight) we're all going to get filthly rich shorting the healthcare sector.
Thanks man
Like I said Straw - ask Shoot or Kaje if this is going to work.
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Like I said Straw - ask Shoot or Kaje if this is going to work.
why the fuck would I ask them (no offense to either one)?
wtf?
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why the fuck would I ask them (no offense to either one)?
wtf?
Both are doctors who currently work in the system and probably are best able to tell us the overall effects of this mess.
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he's a chiropractor..
hahahahaha...now that explains a lot.