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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on March 24, 2010, 03:30:55 PM
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More outrageous conduct by Planned Parenthood. Heard a reporter say that Planned Parenthood told the girl if she tells her parents they will have to pay for the abortion, but if she kept it a secret the abortion is free. Your tax dollars at work people.
Teen Gets Abortion With Help of Her Seattle High School
The 15-Year-Old Was Reportedly Taken During School Hours in a Taxi to get an Abortion
By EMILY FRIEDMAN
March 24, 2010
A Seattle mother is irate after she said her 15-year-old daughter's school arranged an abortion for her daughter without her knowledge.
Mom says school helped assist in her daughter's abortion during school hours.The mother, whose name has been withheld at her request to protect her privacy, told ABC News' Seattle affiliate KOMO-TV that the clinic gave her daughter a pass and helped her get a taxi that took her to a facility where she underwent an abortion.
The mother did not immediately return messages left by ABCNews.com. It was not immediately clear how far along in the pregnancy the teen was at the time of the abortion.
The mother said that she had signed a consent form that permitted her daughter to go to the teen health center on the campus of Ballard High School for what she believed were ailments like earaches, or for routine physicals, but not for an abortion.
"She took a pregnancy test at school at the teen health center," the mother told KOMO. "Nowhere in the paperwork does it mention abortion or facilitating abortion."
The form also allowed her daughter to receive birth control from the school's health clinic, the mother said.
But even so, the mother is furious that her daughter, who is on the school's honor roll, was given an abortion without the school notifying her parents.
"We had no idea this was being facilitated on campus," said the mother. "They just told her that if she concealed it from her family, that it would be free of charge and no financial responsibility."
A spokeswoman for the Seattle School District, which includes Ballard High School, declined to comment and referred all questions to the King County Health Department, the administrator of school-based health programs.
Angry as the mother is that she was not informed about her daughter's quest and receipt of an abortion, the health clinic at the school did not break any laws.
A Seattle mother is furious with her 15-year-old daughter's high school after the health clinic there reportedly sent the teen to a clinic to have an abortion.
(ABC News)Under Washington state law, parental consent is not required when providing health care to minors, even when that care includes abortion.
"Minors may receive an abortion and abortion-related services at any age without the consent of a parent, guardian or the father of the child," the law states.
Minors who are older than 13 can also receive testing for sexually transmitted diseases, both inpatient and outpatient mental health care, and prenatal care without having parental consent, under the law.
T.J. Cosgrove, a representative of the King County Health Department, told KOMO that it's "always best if parents are involved in their children's health care, but they don't always have a say."
"At any age in the state of Washington, an individual can consent to a termination of pregnancy," said Cosgrove.
A representative of the Swedish Medical Center, which runs the clinic at Ballard High, referred ABCNews.com to the King County Health Department but did confirm that Swedish runs the clinic where the abortion was said to be arranged.
The mother told KOMO that she is speaking out so that other parents will become aware of the services that are provided at high school health clinics.
On a MySpace page that appears to belong to the mother, a status message apparently referring to KOMO-TV's coverage of her daughters abortion, reads, "komonews.com front page story! I'm shouting a top my soapbox of justice and human/parental rights!" ABC News could not independently confirm who wrote the post.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/teen-abortion-high-school/story?id=10189694
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this is another example of fucked up liberal bull shit, a young girl can get an abortion without her parents even knowing, but a kid with asthma cant even have a fucking inhalor at school without parental consent and it has to be kept in the nurses office after filling out a mound of paper work from dr. and parents, fucking idiots
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School Abortion
March 24, 2010 - 4:46 PM | by: Dan Springer
The mother of a 15-year old Seattle girl is furious because her daughter had an abortion with some assistance from the nurses at her school and she was never informed. She only found out after the fact when her daughter had an unrelated health problem and finally revealed she had terminated a pregnancy.
The girl attends Ballard High School in Seattle which has a teen health clinic inside. The clinic is run by Swedish Medical Center and administered by the King County Health Department.
According to the girl's mother, who did not want to give her name, her daughter was given a pregnancy test at the school clinic which was positive. She was then told by the nurse that she could have an abortion at a nearby Planned Parenthood clinic without her parents' knowledge.
The girl was then called a taxi, which picked her up at the school and drove her by herself to Planned Parenthood. The mother says once at the clinic a Planned Parenthood worker discouraged her daughter from informing her parents. She claims the worker told her that if she kept quiet the procedure would be free, but if she told her parents they would have to pay for the abortion.
The mother acknowledges she signed a consent form at the beginning of the school year giving the school permission to administer health care off campus. She assumed that meant in cases of emergency. Nowhere on the form is abortion mentioned.
A King County Health official would not speak about any of the details surrounding the case, but did say that no laws were broken. In Washington State a girl of any age can get an abortion without her parent's being notified. It's one of 15 states without either parental consent or parental notification laws.
The county health official also says that schools routinely send kids in taxis when they're taken off campus for medical procedures.
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/24/school-abortion/
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State law wasn't violated.
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Thats damn dispecable that a person under the age of 18 can get an abortion and her parents not be told about it...
This is a medical procedure, how can someone perform a medical procedure on a minor without consent from their guardian?
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Thats damn dispecable that a person under the age of 18 can get an abortion and her parents not be told about it...
This is a medical procedure, how can someone perform a medical procedure on a minor without consent from their guardian?
So you're against states having the right to decide things?
This is a case where no law was broken. It literally shouldn't have even made the news other than advancing someone's political agenda.
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IDK where I would draw the line, but a 15 yr old is more than competent to make this decision on her own and should not have to get the consent of parents.
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So you're against states having the right to decide things?
This is a case where no law was broken. It literally shouldn't have even made the news other than advancing someone's political agenda.
I agree in part. Yes states should have the right to decide this kind of thing and the majority of states require parental notification. But there should not be some kind of clandestine operation that misleads the parents. And Planned Parenthood? ::) Basically bribed the kid. They are an abortion mill.
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I agree in part. Yes states should have the right to decide this kind of thing and the majority of states require parental notification. But there should not be some kind of clandestine operation that misleads the parents. And Planned Parenthood? ::) Basically bribed the kid. They are an abortion mill.
Evidently her state is not one of those that require parental consent.
Personally, I think that if a teen doesn't require parental consent to get pregnant in the first place,
then they should not be required to have parental consent to terminate that pregnancy.
There does not appear to be a clandestine operation. The teen was the patient, not her parents.
It's as drkaje says... no laws were broken, and this sh/wouldn't be a story if not for someone's personal political agenda. There is also the issue of privacy, and clearly this parent has no respect for her daughter's right to privacy. I wonder how she'd feel if she came down with a wicked case of syphilis or gonorrhea, and her daughter shouted it from the mountaintops that her mom had the clap. It would serve her right. >:(
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its kinda hard to get parent consent when the lil fuckers sneak out and lie about where they are, the parents should deffinently know if the girl has an abortion, maybe then she would have to be accountable and have to tell her parents she was sneaking around lieing
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this girls parent also pay for the funding for planned parenthood and tax money goes to the schools , the parents have every right to have notification and give consent.
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this girls parent also pay for the funding for planned parenthood and tax money goes to the schools , the parents have every right to have notification and give consent.
By that reasoning, every taxpayer out there has a say in it. I think she's old enough to make the decision on her own.
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she didnt pop out of every tax payers vagina, but her moms so couple that with the fact that her mom pays taxes she should have the say so over her kid, not the school or planned crook parenthood
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she didnt pop out of every tax payers vagina, but her moms so couple that with the fact that her mom pays taxes she should have the say so over her kid, not the school or planned crook parenthood
Neither the school nor planned parenthood is exercising any "say" over the girl. They are merely providing her with the means to do with her body as she pleases. And at 15, she's old enough to make that judgement.
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at 15 she is not legaly accountable , her parents are, planned parenthood should not be allowed to do it without consent, the school should have to notify the parents, i mean if it is anything else they are required to notify parents fighting, drugs, skipping, vandalism, failing grades, ect. this is no diff
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at 15 she is not legaly accountable , her parents are, planned parenthood should not be allowed to do it without consent, the school should have to notify the parents, i mean if it is anything else they are required to notify parents fighting, drugs, skipping, vandalism, failing grades, ect. this is no diff
Legal accountability is neither here nor there, she hasn't broken any laws or done anything illegal. She's making a choice about her own body.
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she is allowing a proceedure that her mother should have been notified about, its not up to the school or planned parenthood to make that call , nor should it have been on school time, learning should be going on during this time, if the mother wanted the daughter out of school then she could take her out, but she wasnt even giving the option cause she didnt know, this is wrong.
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she is allowing a proceedure that her mother should have been notified about, its not up to the school or planned parenthood to make that call , nor should it have been on school time, learning should be going on during this time, if the mother wanted the daughter out of school then she could take her out, but she wasnt even giving the option cause she didnt know, this is wrong.
The school and planned parenthood did not make the call, the 15 yr old did. And I see no reason why she shouldn't have that right with her own body. She allowed a procedure to be done on her own body, and she's old enough to make that decision.
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i have a kid that works for me that wants to work more but is told he cant leave school except for certain hours, and he has to get permission from a parent, but this lil bitch can be shuttled off in secret with no consent from a parent so she can have an abortion behind her moms back . do you really not see the major issues in this story? where is the accountability, ? how is this lil girl ever going to learn any better if she can just sneak off behind her moms back with support from the school and planned parenthood and get it taken care of?
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So you're against states having the right to decide things?
This is a case where no law was broken. It literally shouldn't have even made the news other than advancing someone's political agenda.
its also law that a person is a minor until the age of 18...Im not against states having the right to decide things.
She is legally a minor she cant get a tattoo or buy alcohol but she can have an abortion without consent? ::)
if she legally cant be held accountable as an adult under the law for her actions than she should have to have parental consent or at the very minimum parental notification
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man i hope you have a daughter thats all i have to say
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Evidently her state is not one of those that require parental consent.
Personally, I think that if a teen doesn't require parental consent to get pregnant in the first place,
then they should not be required to have parental consent to terminate that pregnancy.
There does not appear to be a clandestine operation. The teen was the patient, not her parents.
It's as drkaje says... no laws were broken, and this sh/wouldn't be a story if not for someone's personal political agenda. There is also the issue of privacy, and clearly this parent has no respect for her daughter's right to privacy. I wonder how she'd feel if she came down with a wicked case of syphilis or gonorrhea, and her daughter shouted it from the mountaintops that her mom had the clap. It would serve her right. >:(
Id expect nothing less from you ::) The dont need parental consent to do a lot of things that there parents are informed of if they fuk up on...
slavery didnt break the law at one time so I guess it was ok then right? ::) the law isnt always just and whats just isnt always the law...take into account your double standards on abortions and men and women ::)
Apparently her parents didnt like the fact that their underage child had a medical procedure without their knowledge...lets see are there any other medical procedures that are allowed on minors without their gaurdians approval? hmmmm
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man i hope you have a daughter thats all i have to say
I have 2 daughters, both older than this girl. Amazingly, they're not out committing crimes, doing drugs, or anything else. The real issue seems to be that you don't think a 15 year old can consent to a procedure on her own body and I do.
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well maybe cause you raised 2 girls the right way it sounds like, but unfortunatly some are dumb ass fucking shit, and if your dumb enough to get preg at 15 your not smart enough to make a proper choice for a med proceedure, all the more reason the mother shoulda been told
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I have 2 daughters, both older than this girl. Amazingly, they're not out committing crimes, doing drugs, or anything else. The real issue seems to be that you don't think a 15 year old can consent to a procedure on her own body and I do.
do you think that they should be able to go get tit jobs at 15 without parental consent? how about lipsuction?
any other medical procedure?
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hell you cant get a beeper at 15 lol it is obserd to be able to get abortions without consent
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do you think that they should be able to go get tit jobs at 15 without parental consent? how about lipsuction?
any other medical procedure?
lol. Not really issues I would compare to abortion, but, if they saved their money, thought through the consequences and chose to get those procedures, I suppose I wouldn't have a strong objection.
Now that brings up another issue. I'm not fond of other people paying for this kids abortion.
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not only did they pay for that they paid for the fucking taxi, like they couldnt wait to get her there and get it done...
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lol. Not really issues I would compare to abortion, but, if they saved their money, thought through the consequences and chose to get those procedures, I suppose I wouldn't have a strong objection.
Now that brings up another issue. I'm not fond of other people paying for this kids abortion.
forget the idea of abortion the problem is the idea that a person who is not of the age of legal consent can have a medical procedure without the consent of their legal guardian...abortion(which in my mind makes this more heinous) is simply how this issue has presented itself in this instance.
what about dating older men at 15? if they thought through the consequences and chose to date a 30 yr old lets say?
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I have 2 daughters, both older than this girl. Amazingly, they're not out committing crimes, doing drugs, or anything else. The real issue seems to be that you don't think a 15 year old can consent to a procedure on her own body and I do.
I have daughters too and I disagree. A fifteen-year-old girl cannot consent to sex. She isn't old enough to make decisions about a medical procedure like this. A hospital wouldn't perform elective surgery on a girl this age without her parents' consent. The fact a procedure of this magnitude is permissible with deliberate concealment by the state (assuming it's a public school) and a federally funded abortion mill is just wrong. Yes it's the people of the state of Washington who allow this, but it's still wrong IMO. They should change the law.
But regarding teenagers, they typically do not appreciate the long-term consequences of their actions.
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forget the idea of abortion the problem is the idea that a person who is not of the age of legal consent can have a medical procedure without the consent of their legal guardian...abortion(which in my mind makes this more heinous) is simply how this issue has presented itself in this instance.
what about dating older men at 15? if they thought through the consequences and chose to date a 30 yr old lets say?
lol. Didn't read this till after my post. I agree. :)
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I would love to see the girl come back and sue the school and planned parent hood for this as she is not at the age of legal consent, I would like to see how the state rules on that...
ppl under the age of 18 in the vast majority of cases cannot enter into an enforceable legal contract. Which is not to say they cant enter into a contract if the party entering with them is willing only that in the vast majority of cases those contracts are unenforceable by that party. So any and all waivers etc she may have signed are basically worthless to planned parent hood in court.
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legally anything not signed in front of 2 lawyers, a notarty or a judge are junk, no matter of age
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legally anything not signed in front of 2 lawyers, a notarty or a judge are junk, no matter of age
I dont know about that Ive never heard anything along those lines and courts dont have any problems enforcing contracts that arent signed in front of judges, lawyers or notaries...
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i have seen companies get sued the pants off of, and they had the lil disclaimer waiver b.s. there is no proof that you actually signed, it, then they can argue were you forced, were you high or drunk and not in a proper state of mind to make the choice, where you tricked into signing something unlawfully, ect.. its a long list , man being in business for myself i see and here all kinds of stories. if you want anything to hold up atleast have a notary present, most dont charge anything if you go to them
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I just don't really care about this kind of stuff. I'd never raise the kind of idiot whore that would do something like this, and no one in my family would, so I really just don't care. :-\
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If you've failed as a parent, and raised the kind of girl that would do something so despicable, do you even deserve to know?
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Eyeball you should talk to parents whose kids have made mistakes. Not every kid who does dumb things is a "whore" and not every parent of kids who make mistakes is a failure.
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Eyeball you should talk to parents whose kids have made mistakes. Not every kid who does dumb things is a "whore" and not every parent of kids who make mistakes is a failure.
The kind of girl that has a conscience that would allow them to get an abortion at a young age (killing your parents grandchild as some of you like to put it) without telling their mom or dad is really fucking crazy if you ask me... Maybe I'm just weird... I think something like that is light years beyond just being a "mistake"...
Something has to be seriously wrong in that case... :(
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i have seen companies get sued the pants off of, and they had the lil disclaimer waiver b.s. there is no proof that you actually signed, it, then they can argue were you forced, were you high or drunk and not in a proper state of mind to make the choice, where you tricked into signing something unlawfully, ect.. its a long list , man being in business for myself i see and here all kinds of stories. if you want anything to hold up atleast have a notary present, most dont charge anything if you go to them
well you can sue for anything...you cant succesfully sue for anything but you can file a law suit for anything
actually everything you said all falls under the person have "capacity" to enter into a contract...to have capacity you have to have 2 things one of which is an understanding of the consequences of the contract which is why contracts with minors are not generally enforceable by the other party even though they are generally enforceable by the minor as the minor legally does not have capacity until the age of 18.
you can also not be forced into a contract I forget the technical name for it
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i have seen companies get sued the pants off of, and they had the lil disclaimer waiver b.s. there is no proof that you actually signed, it, then they can argue were you forced, were you high or drunk and not in a proper state of mind to make the choice, where you tricked into signing something unlawfully, ect.. its a long list , man being in business for myself i see and here all kinds of stories. if you want anything to hold up atleast have a notary present, most dont charge anything if you go to them
If I were you and you are worried about it and you have your clients sign something I would put something in it about agreeing to arbitration by signing this document. That way at least you avoid a costly and lengthy law suit, most online business have a clause that forces arbitration and nobody really ever pays attention to it until they try to file a lawsuit and get a notice saying that they agreed to arbitration.
Arbitration is legally binding as well.
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If I were you and you are worried about it and you have your clients sign something I would put something in it about agreeing to arbitration by signing this document. That way at least you avoid a costly and lengthy law suit, most online business have a clause that forces arbitration and nobody really ever pays attention to it until they try to file a lawsuit and get a notice saying that they agreed to arbitration.
Arbitration is legally binding as well.
What?
What are you talking about?
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What?
What are you talking about?
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sorry broham that was meant for body I accidentally quoted you its fixed now
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sorry broham that was meant for body I accidentally quoted you its fixed now
Ohhhhhh I see, I didn't look at any other posts and I didn't get it. Sorry! ;D
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Ohhhhhh I see, I didn't look at any other posts and I didn't get it. Sorry! ;D
LOL np it was my mistake
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The law specifically allows doctors to administer birth control, STD treatment and in some states abortion to teens. Teenagers may not share (or have to be held liable for) some of their parent's values.
I'm not needlessly flippant about abortion. It's just one of those distractions I'm sick of people arguing about when much bigger evils are afoot. I'm even tired of asking people who insist less regulation will make the country a better place why they feel a moral/spiritual obligation to legislate control the bodies of others.
There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me.
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The law specifically allows doctors to administer birth control, STD treatment and in some states abortion to teens. Teenagers may not share (or have to be held liable for) some of their parent's values.
I'm not needlessly flippant about abortion. It's just one of those distractions I'm sick of people arguing about when much bigger evils are afoot. I'm even tired of asking people who insist less regulation will make the country a better place why they feel a moral/spiritual obligation to legislate control the bodies of others.
There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me.
I agree about the spiritual comment my feeling is if you dont like others pushing their personal beliefs on you than you shouldnt push them on others who are unwilling...
but there are plenty and I mean PLENTY of reasons to be against abortion that have not one thing to do with religion. There is also a legitimate question here as to why a person who is not of the legal age of consent can have a medical procedure without their guardians approval...
just stating b/c its the law doesnt make it right as Ive pointed out slavery was once legal but it was still wrong.
can you think of any other medical procedures that can be performed on a minor without parental consent doc?
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Eyeball you should talk to parents whose kids have made mistakes. Not every kid who does dumb things is a "whore" and not every parent of kids who make mistakes is a failure.
Excellent Point.
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I agree about the spiritual comment my feeling is if you dont like others pushing their personal beliefs on you than you shouldnt push them on others who are unwilling...
but there are plenty and I mean PLENTY of reasons to be against abortion that have not one thing to do with religion. There is also a legitimate question here as to why a person who is not of the legal age of consent can have a medical procedure without their guardians approval...
just stating b/c its the law doesnt make it right as Ive pointed out slavery was once legal but it was still wrong.
can you think of any other medical procedures that can be performed on a minor without parental consent doc?
Guardians can be wrong, misinformed, ignorant, stupid, etc... Having children doesn't mean you're smart or competent to make decisions for others. It simply means you could have children. :)
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The kind of girl that has a conscience that would allow them to get an abortion at a young age (killing your parents grandchild as some of you like to put it) without telling their mom or dad is really fucking crazy if you ask me... Maybe I'm just weird... I think something like that is light years beyond just being a "mistake"...
Something has to be seriously wrong in that case... :(
You should talk to parents who have raised teenagers. They do some pretty dumb things sometimes. Bill Cosby was right: kids are brain damaged. :)
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The law specifically allows doctors to administer birth control, STD treatment and in some states abortion to teens. Teenagers may not share (or have to be held liable for) some of their parent's values.
I'm not needlessly flippant about abortion. It's just one of those distractions I'm sick of people arguing about when much bigger evils are afoot. I'm even tired of asking people who insist less regulation will make the country a better place why they feel a moral/spiritual obligation to legislate control the bodies of others.
There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me.
And yet here you are. :)
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Excellent Point.
Thank you. :)
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And yet here you are. :)
I wrote "There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me." not "There's just no entertainment value left in the people on either side of this issue for me." :)
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I wrote "There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me." not "There's just no entertainment value left in the people on either side of this issue for me." :)
Ah so. :D
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Guardians can be wrong, misinformed, ignorant, stupid, etc... Having children doesn't mean you're smart or competent to make decisions for others. It simply means you could have children. :)
yes they can but more so than a 15 yr old on a contiuous basis?
the fact is adults generally have the ability to make a more informed decision hence the whole "age of legal consent"
again do you know of any other medical procedure that can occur on a minor without their consent?
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I don't know, doing things like getting high at school, wrecking your parents car, getting your girlfriend pregnant, shoplifting, etc seem like normal teen "mistakes".
On the other hand, getting pregnant as a teen girl, not telling anyone, letting a doctor stick some kind of vacuum machine up your vagina, and facing your parents before hand (and after) without saying anything...
Something has got to be seriously wrong with a teen girl who's conscience would allow her to do that... Something like that goes well beyond just being a "teenage mistake" and makes me believe that kind of girl and the people who supposedly "raised" her need serious help.
Maybe I'm just naive, maybe the world is full of more sociopaths than I realized...
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yes they can but more so than a 15 yr old on a contiuous basis?
the fact is adults generally have the ability to make a more informed decision hence the whole "age of legal consent"
again do you know of any other medical procedure that can occur on a minor without their consent?
Emergency and lifesaving procedures.
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Emergency and lifesaving procedures.
and rightly so...where does abortion fall in regards to emergency and lifesaving procedures?
so why should they be allowed to have these without parental consent or the absolute minimum parental notification?
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and rightly so...where does abortion fall in regards to emergency and lifesaving procedures?
so why should they be allowed to have these without parental consent or the absolute minimum parental notification?
Already explained that: Parents aren't always right. Leaving, growing or incubating DNA doesn't mean you know a damn thing and are able to make sound decisions for others. I see plenty of people with obese children as proof of this.
If you want to split hairs.... We also aren't necessarily qualified to make decisions for others. :)
No state laws were broken. This isn't news. It could have easily been a case of incest where parental notification would have resulted in her being forced to keep a two headed baby, physical abuse, rape or jail time for a parent and being forced to stay with a resentful enabler until emancipated. There are just as many reasons a parent shouldn't know as why they should be informed.
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Already explained that: Parents aren't always right. Leaving, growing or incubating DNA doesn't mean you know a damn thing and are able to make sound decisions for others. I see plenty of people with obese children as proof of this.
If you want to split hairs.... We also aren't necessarily qualified to make decisions for others. :)
No state laws were broken. This isn't news. It could have easily been a case of incest where parental notification would have resulted in her being forced to keep a two headed baby, physical abuse, rape or jail time for a parent and being forced to stay with a resentful enabler until emancipated. There are just as many reasons a parent shouldn't know as why they should be informed.
That doesn't really respond to tony's question. There is no other elective medical procedure that I can think of that doesn't require parental consent.
Regarding whether "no state laws were broken," I'm not sure that's true. I haven't read the Washington law, but I question whether it permits a school and an abortion mill to participate in a coverup.
More importantly, schools are mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect. Unless the age of consent in Washington is under 16, this girl was raped and the school had a duty to report this to either the police or child protective services.
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That doesn't really respond to tony's question. There is no other elective medical procedure that I can think of that doesn't require parental consent.
Regarding whether "no state laws were broken," I'm not sure that's true. I haven't read the Washington law, but I question whether it permits a school and an abortion mill to participate in a coverup.
More importantly, schools are mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect. Unless the age of consent in Washington is under 16, this girl was raped and the school had a duty to report this to either the police or child protective services.
I did answer Tony's question. You just didn't like the response, LOL! If it were a boob job, I'd agree but we're specifically talking about certain states limiting parental dominion over children's reproductive rights.
The statutory rape, if he was older than 17, is another issue because school officials and doctors are mandated reporters.
Coverup is incorrect language. The girl still has a right to privacy so it's entirely possible telling her to STFU was to more to prevent foolishness, not conceal illegal activity. They literally may not be able to provide free birth control once parental consent is given.
We can only speculate as to what else will come out on this story later. That being true, some people would already be in jail if a state law was broken.
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I did answer Tony's question. You just didn't like the response, LOL! If it were a boob job, I'd agree but we're specifically talking about certain states limiting parental dominion over children's reproductive rights.
The statutory rape, if he was older than 17, is another issue because school officials and doctors are mandated reporters.
Coverup is incorrect language. The girl still has a right to privacy so it's entirely possible telling her to STFU was to more to prevent foolishness, not conceal illegal activity. They literally may not be able to provide free birth control once parental consent is given.
We can only speculate as to what else will come out on this story later. That being true, some people would already be in jail if a state law was broken.
Tony was asking what other elective procedure a hospital could perform without parental consent. You didn't answer that question. Are you aware of any other elective procedure that doesn't require parental consent?
I agree we need to let this play out. We don't know the whole story.
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Tony was asked what other elective procedure a hospital could perform without parental consent. You didn't answer that question. Are you aware of any other elective procedure that doesn't require parental consent?
I agree we need to let this play out. We don't know the whole story.
Elective?! Not off the top of my head unless you're talking about someone already emancipated.
If it's her parent's cooter they should have been keeping a better eye on it. :)
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Elective?! Not off the top of my head unless you're talking about someone already emancipated.
If it's her parent's cooter they should have been keeping a better eye on it. :)
Now that answers the question. :)
They could have kept a better eye and the kid could have still gotten pregnant. I know some pretty strict parents whose kids have gotten pregnant.
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Already explained that: Parents aren't always right. Leaving, growing or incubating DNA doesn't mean you know a damn thing and are able to make sound decisions for others. I see plenty of people with obese children as proof of this.
If you want to split hairs.... We also aren't necessarily qualified to make decisions for others. :)
No state laws were broken. This isn't news. It could have easily been a case of incest where parental notification would have resulted in her being forced to keep a two headed baby, physical abuse, rape or jail time for a parent and being forced to stay with a resentful enabler until emancipated. There are just as many reasons a parent shouldn't know as why they should be informed.
again please stop using the its ok b/c its the law arguement...slavery was once legal was it ok then?
LOL ok so to protect the 1% of abortions that take place in this country as a result of rape, incest or sexual abuse lets not require any of them to have parental consent or even parental notification? ::) talk about over reacting
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I did answer Tony's question. You just didn't like the response, LOL! If it were a boob job, I'd agree but we're specifically talking about certain states limiting parental dominion over children's reproductive rights.
The statutory rape, if he was older than 17, is another issue because school officials and doctors are mandated reporters.
Coverup is incorrect language. The girl still has a right to privacy so it's entirely possible telling her to STFU was to more to prevent foolishness, not conceal illegal activity. They literally may not be able to provide free birth control once parental consent is given.
We can only speculate as to what else will come out on this story later. That being true, some people would already be in jail if a state law was broken.
whoa whoa whoa its her cooter and she can do what she wants in regards to abortion but if she wanted to have sex with a guy whos over 17 that youre all of a sudden against?
its ok for a 15 year old to decide to have an abortionb/c hey its her body but she isnt free to choose who impregnates her?
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whoa whoa whoa its her cooter and she can do what she wants in regards to abortion but if she wanted to have sex with a guy whos over 17 that youre all of a sudden against?
its ok for a 15 year old to decide to have an abortionb/c hey its her body but she isnt free to choose who impregnates her?
Is it the state's cooter?!
I'd be more than a little worried about the state having that much control over our bodies.
As for the slavery question.... we're not talking about right or wrong here. Right and wrong aren't absolutes, they're determined by political outcomes.
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Right and wrong aren't absolutes, they're determined by political outcomes.
[insert Peter Griffin voice]: Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. :) You're not injecting moral skepticism into this are you? I think tony and I had this discussion a while back, and we didn't really agree, but there are some things that are absolutely immoral. For example, rape, child molestation, elder abuse. All absolutely immoral and "wrong," regardless of political outcome.
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Is it the state's cooter?!
I'd be more than a little worried about the state having that much control over our bodies.
As for the slavery question.... we're not talking about right or wrong here. Right and wrong aren't absolutes, they're determined by political outcomes.
but you support the state saying she has the right to choose in one instance and dont in another in regards to age and sex?
the problem is the system has to be consistant...and it does strive to be right even in political terms
you cant say that a girl isnt of legal age cant have elective surgery and then turn around and say ohhh except for this without reason...if your reasoning for that is b/c its her body, did it stop being her body in terms of who she sleeps with and their age?
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but you support the state saying she has the right to choose in one instance and dont in another in regards to age and sex?
the problem is the system has to be consistant...and it does strive to be right even in political terms
you cant say that a girl isnt of legal age cant have elective surgery and then turn around and say ohhh except for this without reason...if your reasoning for that is b/c its her body, did it stop being her body in terms of who she sleeps with and their age?
There's where we disagree, LOL! Right is decided by whoever has enough power or votes but morals are personal. People externalize personal morals/values through legislation and then claim to be right.
The obsession with control over cooters is kind of ironic considering many republicans claim to be for a smaller government.
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There's where we disagree, LOL! Right is decided by whoever has enough power or votes but morals are personal. People externalize personal morals/values through legislation and then claim to be right.
The obsession with control over cooters is kind of ironic considering many republicans claim to be for a smaller government.
thats fine it still doesnt doesnt excuse legislation from contradicting one another...you cant be for her being able to decide she wants an abortion under the legal age of consent and also for prosecuting men who have sex with girls under the legal age of consent b/c as you said its their cooter LOL
why does she have the right to decide in one instance but not the other?
Legislation still needs rationale behind it and the rationale needs to be consistant
also I will say conservatives believe in taking responsibiity for your actions...whether it be welfare, abortions, crime etc....liberals like to make it about control when its really about ppl being responsible ;)
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The law specifically allows doctors to administer birth control, STD treatment and in some states abortion to teens. Teenagers may not share (or have to be held liable for) some of their parent's values.
I'm not needlessly flippant about abortion. It's just one of those distractions I'm sick of people arguing about when much bigger evils are afoot. I'm even tired of asking people who insist less regulation will make the country a better place why they feel a moral/spiritual obligation to legislate control the bodies of others.
There's just no entertainment value left in the issue for me.
A very fine post. Spot on.
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[insert Peter Griffin voice]: Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. :) You're not injecting moral skepticism into this are you? I think tony and I had this discussion a while back, and we didn't really agree, but there are some things that are absolutely immoral. For example, rape, child molestation, elder abuse. All absolutely immoral and "wrong," regardless of political outcome.
Marriage ages were much different a long time ago in the US. Were all those older men rapists and molesters?
We, as a culture, have lack any morals beyond whatever is convenient and there's no degree of depravity or indifference to the suffering of others we cannot rationalize if it suits our needs.
Saying "we have no morals" is a fact, not skepticism, LOL!
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thats fine it still doesnt doesnt excuse legislation from contradicting one another...you cant be for her being able to decide she wants an abortion under the legal age of consent and also for prosecuting men who have sex with girls under the legal age of consent b/c as you said its their cooter LOL
why does she have the right to decide in one instance but not the other?
Legislation still needs rationale behind it and the rationale needs to be consistant
also I will say conservatives believe in taking responsibiity for your actions...whether it be welfare, abortions, crime etc....liberals like to make it about control when its really about ppl being responsible ;)
bump for doc
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thats fine it still doesnt doesnt excuse legislation from contradicting one another...you cant be for her being able to decide she wants an abortion under the legal age of consent and also for prosecuting men who have sex with girls under the legal age of consent b/c as you said its their cooter LOL
why does she have the right to decide in one instance but not the other?
Legislation still needs rationale behind it and the rationale needs to be consistant
also I will say conservatives believe in taking responsibiity for your actions...whether it be welfare, abortions, crime etc....liberals like to make it about control when its really about ppl being responsible ;)
Laws are created by people and rarely make perfect sense. Why can someone be drafted at 18 but can't drink until 21?
Age of consent is more or less to protect children from relationships deemed socially inappropriate. Arguing 'age of consent for sex and medical procedures should be identical' is reaching to bit. For sake of argument let's say you're right... should people take a separate driving test for SUVs? Often I see people who cannot park their Tahoe/H2/Explorer, should the state make them prove driving competence first?
I'm for limiting the state's power, not selectively expanding it to advance certain political goals. Picking and choosing where we should limit or expand the states power based upon who has the most votes is dangerous.
As for consistency...... who do hard core republicans insist on poor people keeping unwanted pregnancies yet refuse to insure the babies? If insurance is a matter of personal responsibility they having babies should be as well.
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Marriage ages were much different a long time ago in the US. Were all those older men rapists and molesters?
We, as a culture, have lack any morals beyond whatever is convenient and there's no degree of depravity or indifference to the suffering of others we cannot rationalize if it suits our needs.
Saying "we have no morals" is a fact, not skepticism, LOL!
If a man was allowed to "marry" a child, then yes that was wrong, regardless of what the "law" said at the time. Rationalization and the law don't always determine right and wrong. There are some things that are universally immoral.
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If a man was allowed to "marry" a child, then yes that was wrong, regardless of what the "law" said at the time. Rationalization and the law don't always determine right and wrong. There are some things that are universally immoral.
Morals aren't universal so how can anything be universally immoral?
Murder, freedom fighter, terrorist, etc... are political definitions during war.
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Morals aren't universal so how can anything be universally immoral?
Murder, freedom fighter, terrorist, etc... are political definitions during war.
You're too smart to believe that some things are not universally immoral. For example, don't you believe child molestation is universally immoral?
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You're too smart to believe that some things are not universally immoral. For example, don't you believe child molestation is universally immoral?
Queef's in NAMBLA or ALCU would disagree.
That's an example that should be universally immoral but I'm no expert on how other cultures define it or the extent to which we have a right/obligation to impose our morals on them. I'm not counting countries with oil or other valuable resources because it's very important for us to share proper morals with them. :)
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Queef's in NAMBLA or ALCU would disagree.
That's an example that should be universally immoral but I'm no expert on how other cultures define it or the extent to which we have a right/obligation to impose our morals on them. I'm not counting countries with oil or other valuable resources because it's very important for us to share proper morals with them. :)
It's not something that should be immoral (child molestation). It is immoral, whether it's legal or not. I'm not saying everything that is universally immoral is or always has been illegal. That's a different issue IMO. I'm talking about what reasonable people know to be right and wrong. There are a number of things that most of us will agree are wrong, whether they are legal or not. Child molestation is one, right?
The NAMBLA freaks are just a scourge on society. Doesn't really matter what those perverts think.
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It's not something that should be immoral (child molestation). It is immoral, whether it's legal or not. I'm not saying everything that is universally immoral is or always has been illegal. That's a different issue IMO. I'm talking about what reasonable people know to be right and wrong. There are a number of things that most of us will agree are wrong, whether they are legal or not. Child molestation is one, right?
The NAMBLA freaks are just a scourge on society. Doesn't really matter what those perverts think.
I'll at least agree with ya on the NAMBLA/ACLU freaks but don't find most people reasonable unless perfectly getting their way. :)
Your language isn't usually this careful, LOL! "There are a number of things that most of will agree are wrong"?! Is essentially saying a majority gets to decide right and wrong?
Morals are another story. I'd argue moral behavior is more likely to stem from right thinking than morality. People complying with whatever rules/limits society has imposed or fearful of consequences aren't necessarily moral. The results are probably the same but moral and legally right may not always be the same.
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I'll at least agree with ya on the NAMBLA/ACLU freaks but don't find most people reasonable unless perfectly getting their way. :)
Your language isn't usually this careful, LOL! "There are a number of things that most of will agree are wrong"?! Is essentially saying a majority gets to decide right and wrong?
Morals are another story. I'd argue moral behavior is more likely to stem from right thinking than morality. People complying with whatever rules/limits society has imposed or fearful of consequences aren't necessarily moral. The results are probably the same but moral and legally right may not always be the same.
I'm not talking about what eventually makes it way onto the law books and becomes legal or illegal. I'm talking about an inherent sense of right and wrong. Most people have it. You can see it in little kids, despite their selfishness and innate ability to lie. :)
I understand where you're coming from. Point I'm trying to make is right and wrong isn't necessarily decided by what's on the books.
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I'm not talking about what eventually makes it way onto the law books and becomes legal or illegal. I'm talking about an inherent sense of right and wrong. Most people have it. You can see it in little kids, despite their selfishness and innate ability to lie. :)
I understand where you're coming from. Point I'm trying to make is right and wrong isn't necessarily decided by what's on the books.
Our instruction and examples probably help children probably unlearn many good instincts. :)
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Our instruction and examples probably help children probably unlearn many good instincts. :)
They learn a lot of bad stuff from us too. :-\
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I have 2 daughters, both older than this girl. Amazingly, they're not out committing crimes, doing drugs, or anything else. The real issue seems to be that you don't think a 15 year old can consent to a procedure on her own body and I do.
how do you know? maybe they do a bunch of bad things and there are adults that they can go to to help cover it up. maybe they've gotten a few abortions. if you lived in this school district they wouldn't have to tell you.