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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 24KT on March 28, 2010, 06:15:42 PM
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Was School Strip-Search Legal?
Case Pits Students' Privacy Rights vs. Need to Keep Drugs, Weapons Out of Schools
By REYNOLDS HOLDING
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
March 28, 2008
A student strip-searched for drugs when she was in eighth grade took her case to a federal appeals court on Wednesday, arguing through a lawyer that school officials had violated her constitutional rights by overzealously enforcing a strict policy against alcohol, narcotics – and, in her case, Ibuprofen.
(http://a.abcnews.com/images/TheLaw/abc_strip_080328_mn.jpg)
(PhotoDisc/iStockphoto)
Savana Redding says she was "confused" and "ashamed" after the officials in Safford, Ariz., suspected her in 2003 of giving other students prescription Ibuprofen pills and ordered her to expose her breasts and pelvic area during a search in the school nurse's office. She denied having any pills, and none were found. Her mother later filed on her behalf a federal lawsuit claiming the search was unreasonable and therefore illegal.
"A strip search, particularly of an adolescent, is a grave invasion of privacy and should be reserved for emergency situations," Andrew Petersen, one of Redding's lawyers, said in a written statement. "The misguided actions of these school officials must not become the status quo in our nation's schools."
But a lawyer for the school district insisted that there were ample grounds for the search.
"When it comes to drugs and weapons," Matthew Wright said, "school districts just can't take the chance of not going forward and being sure."
The case is one of dozens that have recently challenged public schools on where to draw the line between the privacy rights of students and the need to keep drugs and violence out of the classroom. Courts have generally upheld school strip searches only when they were necessary to avoid a severe health or safety threat. But laws banning or strictly limiting such searches exist in seven states: California, Iowa, Missouri, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Virginia and Wisconsin, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.
Wednesday's argument was the third round in a legal fight that has been going on since 2004. On March 15, 2005, a U.S. district judge ruled in favor of the school district without a trial. Last year, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals in San Francisco upheld that ruling by a vote of 2-1. In January, the full court of appeals agreed to review the case, and it heard oral arguments Wednesday. A decision is not expected for at least several months
According to court documents, the dispute started in October 2003, when a student at Safford Middle School in Safford, Ariz., told the vice principal that Redding, then 13, and her friends were bringing drugs to school. A week later, the student showed the vice principal a pill that he said was from Redding's friend. The pill turned out to be prescription-strength Ibuprofen.
A recently adopted school policy prohibited all drugs on school grounds, including any "prescription or over-the-counter drug" like Ibuprofen, except when specifically permitted by the school. The vice principal asked Redding's friend about the pill, and she said Redding had given it to her.
The vice principal then hauled Redding out of class for questioning. After she denied knowing anything about the pills, he asked if she would agree to be searched, and she said she would. The vice principal looked in her backpack, found nothing and then sent her to the nurse's office.
"I was just like, did I do something wrong?" Redding recalls. "I was thinking, if I don't do this [go to the nurse's office], they're going to think that I did do something wrong, and I'll get into more trouble."
While the nurse watched, a female secretary had Redding strip to her underwear, pull her bra to the side and her panties out at the crotch and expose her breasts and pelvic area. After no pills appeared, Redding got dressed.
Redding says she didn't return to class but sat in the vice principal's office and called her mother to pick her up. She was afraid to tell her mom on the phone what had happened, she recalls, because "the secretary was listening" and "I was like really ashamed, like it was my fault." A friend later spilled the beans about the search, and Redding says her mom "was more mad than I was. I felt really stupid."
The incident was so humiliating that Redding says she couldn't return to school for months. "Everyone knew what had happened, and they were talking about me," she recalls. "I got really nervous, developed ulcers and started puking."
Eventually, Redding transferred to another school, and today, at age 17, she is still trying to make up for lost time at what she describes as an alternative high school.
"I remember how much I enjoyed school," she says. "I won all kinds of certificates, I was on the honor roll, I was doing pretty good. And I had never been in trouble before."
"I would have felt better if they had called my mom" before doing the strip search, she says.
Wright, the lawyer for the school district, says the school's strict drug policy is still in effect. He is not aware of any specific rules on strip searches but stresses the duty of schools "to closely supervise students and provide a safe environment." As for the strip search of Redding, he says it was based on "reasonable grounds."
"Remember," he says, "this was prescription strength Ibuprofen."
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Yes and she shouldn't have been bringing drugs to school.
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homeschool
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well if a school can advocate abortions without parental consent I guess you should be ok with this as well ::)
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well if a school can advocate abortions without parental consent I guess you should be ok with this as well ::)
So you're OK with the kid bringing drugs to school?
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So you're OK with the kid bringing drugs to school?
nope but in regards to strip searching...if your ok with schools advocating abortions without parental consent is strip searching that big a deal?
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nope but in regards to strip searching...if your ok with schools advocating abortions without parental consent is strip searching that big a deal?
I'm not ok with either.
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nope but in regards to strip searching...if your ok with schools advocating abortions without parental consent is strip searching that big a deal?
A. It was 2003, she should probably STFU and get over it.
B. She denied having drugs. Most of us wouldn't want our kids getting drugs in schools.
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if a teen girl can go get an abortion without parental consent much less even being told about it, she can dam sure be strip searched.
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A. It was 2003, she should probably STFU and get over it.
B. She denied having drugs. Most of us wouldn't want our kids getting drugs in schools.
most of us wouldnt want our kids having abortions without our consent never the less without our knowledge ;)
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WTF?
This isn't OK
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if a teen girl can go get an abortion without parental consent much less even being told about it, she can dam sure be strip searched.
The girl in question got an abortion without her parent's consent? Or are you holding her accountable for others? Maybe she's even against abortions for all we know.
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The girl in question got an abortion without her parent's consent? Or are you holding her accountable for others? Maybe she's even against abortions for all we know.
its in reference to another thread in which ppl defended the right of schoools to assist in abortions without parental consent or even informing the parent...
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its in reference to another thread in which ppl defended the right of schoools to assist in abortions without parental consent or even informing the parent...
I can understand that and it's a topic to itself. I would also agree, parents should be fully informed. I just don't know what this girl has to do with that? Like I said, for all we know, she's against abortion and maybe thinks a child should have their parent's consent too. I don't know what this has to do with her strip search.
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I can understand that and it's a topic to itself. I would also agree, parents should be fully informed. I just don't know what this girl has to do with that? Like I said, for all we know, she's against abortion and maybe thinks a child should have their parent's consent too. I don't know what this has to do with her strip search.
just see the inconsistancy in some that feel its ok for the school to assist with abortions as well as the concealment of abortions and then get upset when the school strip searches a student...I agree with you the school is wrong on both accounts...
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just see the inconsistancy in some that feel its ok for the school to assist with abortions as well as the concealment of abortions and then get upset when the school strip searches a student...I agree with you the school is wrong on both accounts...
I missed this thread you're talking about? Do you remember who advocated for the parent's not being informed of their child's abortion? Or link to the thread? I just curious to see who here feels that way. It sounds crazy to me.
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I missed this thread you're talking about? Do you remember who advocated for the parent's not being informed of their child's abortion? Or link to the thread? I just curious to see who here feels that way. It sounds crazy to me.
Ill see if i can find it...I wouldnt say that doc advocated it simply defended it b/c he said "it didnt break any laws"...
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Ill see if i can find it...I wouldnt say that doc advocated it simply defended it b/c he said "it didnt break any laws"...
do you remember who advocated it here off hand?
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do you remember who advocated it here off hand?
Actually Dr. kaje did advocate for it...I dont think he was for it but more so in defense of his stance...heres the link
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=325342.25
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Another student admitted this girl was giving out pills at school.
Hey, if a kid eats 10 ibuprofin, the kid dies, right? It's serious, even if it is OTC medicine. We don't konw if some other idiot kid is gonna put them in someone's food or just eat them because kids do stupid shit.
If your kid needs medicine, keep him/her home. Don't be an idiot and send her to school and end up with a shitstorm like this. Plus, WTF is an 8th grader doing passing out pills at school? Kick that kid's ass.
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Actually Dr. kaje did advocate for it...I dont think he was for it but more so in defense of his stance...heres the link
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=325342.25
After reading the thread, wow, it appears DrKaje argued that the parents are to stupid to make the right choice with their children. Can't say I can follow with that. I'm also pretty sure conservatives would not agree.
Thanks for looking up the thread tony.
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After reading the thread, wow, it appears DrKaje argued that the parents are to stupid to make the right choice with their children. Can't say I can follow with that. I'm also pretty sure conservatives would not agree.
well Ive seen doc post enough to think he was just trying to make a point...and I cant see that in certain instances how the parents wouldnt necissarily make a great decision but i still dont understand how ppl feel its ok for them to decide to have an elective procedure like abortion withoout parental consent but not any other surgery...or why they think it should be against the law for them to date men older than 18.
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it's a tough argument. I was in cuffs this year "for the safety and good of all" so this weak looking rookie cop could get my gun from my pocket without being in danger.
It sucked for me, violated me for sure. But it is what it is.
If someone told the principal this girl had a handgun, would it be cool to search her? You bet your ass it would be cool to search her. Cause if she denies it, walks into the hallway and shoots 5 kids...
I wouldn't want my kid getting searched by some d-bag perv office staff because of a tip. But I wouldn't want my kids' classmates being able to smuggle drugs, guns, whatever because kids know nobody can search them.
I used to teach at a rough middle school, and the Student resource officer (a real cop) would search certain kids from time to time, it was just how things were.
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Another student
yea, important. It came from another student. You're sure she wasn't lying to cover her ass? If my kid can be strip searched on the word of another student, I'm not enrolling my kid in that school.
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it's a tough argument. I was in cuffs this year "for the safety and good of all" so this weak looking rookie cop could get my gun from my pocket without being in danger.
It sucked for me, violated me for sure. But it is what it is.
If someone told the principal this girl had a handgun, would it be cool to search her? You bet your ass it would be cool to search her. Cause if she denies it, walks into the hallway and shoots 5 kids...
I wouldn't want my kid getting searched by some d-bag perv office staff because of a tip. But I wouldn't want my kids' classmates being able to smuggle drugs, guns, whatever because kids know nobody can search them.
I used to teach at a rough middle school, and the Student resource officer (a real cop) would search certain kids from time to time, it was just how things were.
good points
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well Ive seen doc post enough to think he was just trying to make a point...and I cant see that in certain instances how the parents wouldnt necissarily make a great decision but i still dont understand how ppl feel its ok for them to decide to have an elective procedure like abortion withoout parental consent but not any other surgery...or why they think it should be against the law for them to date men older than 18.
I'm not telling you to side against him. If you agree with him most of the time that's cool. But one of the points he clearly made in that thread was against the parents, pretty much calling them to stupid to be trusted.
Sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't. It's just what it is. I'm not going to back you on everything because I agree with you on some stuff.
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"If my kid can be strip searched on the word of another student, I'm not enrolling my kid in that school."
Every school i've taught in... has been exactly like that. if safety is an issue, they let the cop search the kid.
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I'm not telling you to side against him. If you agree with him most of the time that's cool. But one of the points he clearly made in that thread was against the parents, pretty much calling them to stupid to be trusted.
Sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't. It's just what it is. I'm not going to back you on everything because I agree with you on some stuff.
oh no I totally agree with you on that point...I think thats one of the reasons we have the legal age of consent b/c kids under that age generally cant make a informed decision based on all the relevant information and circumstances...
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"If my kid can be strip searched on the word of another student, I'm not enrolling my kid in that school."
Every school i've taught in... has been exactly like that. if safety is an issue, they let the cop search the kid.
I never remember hearing about kids being strip searched at school ever growing up in Wyoming. If that's the way the do it in Florida whatfuckingever. I don't live down there and you don't live up here. Here is what I would want to happen. On the sole word of another student, fucking nothing. Any student could be covering their own ass or that of a friend. If there must be a search, the child held in the nurses office until a parent arrives to be witness since the child is underage PERIOD. I'm not even sure I agree with any of that. If there is something illegal going on, the school should not take it into their own hands. They should contact the police and report what they know and let an actual investigation into the matter take place.
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the prob is that if you're lucky, you'll get 1 tip from a kid about the drug, gun, whatever.
if the administration doesn't act - and that kid sells drugs to a kid that dies... then everybody gets shitcanned, lawsuits, etc.
if they do act and the kid is guilty, nobody sues cause the kid is in deep shit.
if they search and find nothing, it's a case by case and they're better safe than sorry.
In the school I was at, they'd find a gun per month on kids - grade 6 to 8. As a teacher who had to leave my own piece locked in trunk - I was damn happy the police were searching and expelling kids. I was more worried about one of their immature, emotional 12 year old minds going blank and starting shooting, than I was about their rights.
Wrong, yes. But it is what it is.
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the prob is that if you're lucky, you'll get 1 tip from a kid about the drug, gun, whatever.
if the administration doesn't act - and that kid sells drugs to a kid that dies... then everybody gets shitcanned, lawsuits, etc.
if they do act and the kid is guilty, nobody sues cause the kid is in deep shit.
if they search and find nothing, it's a case by case and they're better safe than sorry.
In the school I was at, they'd find a gun per month on kids - grade 6 to 8. As a teacher who had to leave my own piece locked in trunk - I was damn happy the police were searching and expelling kids. I was more worried about one of their immature, emotional 12 year old minds going blank and starting shooting, than I was about their rights.
Wrong, yes. But it is what it is.
actually you're just wrong on this point.
If the school was tipped off to illegal activity, their only duty is to report it to the authorities. I don't think they should have the right to launch their own investigation into accusations of illegal activity. If this had been reported to authorities, chances are they could have come down and questioned everyone and got to the bottom of it before stipping a student was needed. I would absolutely take my kid out of a school that made these choices. Would you be as comfortable with your children being stripped on the word of another student? Would you at least want to be there?
Interesting, the principle asked the student if she would consent to a search? How do you think she would have answered if the principle asked if she would consent to being strip searched? From what you're saying, the principle didn't even have to ask for her consent.
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actually you're just wrong on this point.
If the school was tipped off to illegal activity, their only duty is to report it to the authorities. I don't think they should have the right to launch their own investigation into accusations of illegal activity. If this had been reported to authorities, chances are they could have come down and questioned everyone and got to the bottom of it before stipping a student was needed. I would absolutely take my kid out of a school that made these choices. Would you be as comfortable with your children being stripped on the word of another student? Would you at least want to be there?
I agree with this, this is how my high school worked...we had drug sniffing dogs come in from time to time and they hit on my car one time and while the assistant principle was the one who informed me and communicated with me it was the police who conducted the investigation...which found nothing by the way
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yeah - you are right there - the secretary shuldn't have done it - the school SRO should have done it - all legal then.
Of courtse I wouldn't want my kid to go thru that. And I'd like to be there if so - with my lawyer - and the school did screw up there.
I went off on the tangent of a cop doing it - and I'm okay with it. However, if nothing is found, the informant deserves a boot in the ass.
I dont know the law... I just know that in my old rough school, they'd call the cop, say they had suspicion, then they'd find a way to get to the bottom of it. Most kids would crack in the room and just give up the pot, knife, whatever. But some needed them to bring in a second officer and yea, they would sometimes have a .32 on them or whatever. 99% of the time it was in their backpack, which they can toss without permission.
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hey in todays society kids wana act more and more like adults, and be treated more like adults at younger ages so being searched is just part of being treated as an adult, life isnt fair , learn it young and get over it
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I was searched in high school by the principal, but she just did the ole empty your pockets, not a strip search.
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I was searched in high school by the principal, but she just did the ole empty your pockets, not a strip search.
hahah I got that a couple times too, I had a tongue ring in high school and the AP would make me stick out my tongue whenever she saw me to make sure i didnt have it in.
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hahah I got that a couple times too, I had a tongue ring in high school and the AP would make me stick out my tongue whenever she saw me to make sure i didnt have it in.
LOL. you had a tongue ring?
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hahah I got that a couple times too, I had a tongue ring in high school and the AP would make me stick out my tongue whenever she saw me to make sure i didnt have it in.
This bitch searched me because she claimed I smelled like weed. ::)
Searched a couple of other times too, but hey, I never had to take off my clothes.
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This bitch searched me because she claimed I smelled like weed. ::)
Searched a couple of other times too, but hey, I never had to take off my clothes.
hahaha had a buddy who got his locker searched b/c they said he smelled like alcohol...didnt find anything but if i remember correctly they sent him home...he was drunk though
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LOL. you had a tongue ring?
LOL I did actually I still have the piercing even though I dont wear a stud anymore...I streched it down to a 2 gauge which is about the size of a pen but a tad smaller. I havent worn a stud in years so im starting to think it may never close...
I also had my labret pierced I think thats how you spell it...iono but I never streched that one
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hahaha had a buddy who got his locker searched b/c they said he smelled like alcohol...didnt find anything but if i remember correctly they sent him home...he was drunk though
I was drunk off my ass and chuked in Algebra and the teacher didn't even send me to the nurse, she just gave me some gum and asked if I was OK. ;D
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I was drunk off my ass and chuked in Algebra and the teacher didn't even send me to the nurse, she just gave me some gum and asked if I was OK. ;D
hahahhahaa ;D
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LOL I did actually I still have the piercing even though I dont wear a stud anymore...I streched it down to a 2 gauge which is about the size of a pen but a tad smaller. I havent worn a stud in years so im starting to think it may never close...
I also had my labret pierced I think thats how you spell it...iono but I never streched that one
Just never figured you for the type. It's cool, not judging.
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LOL I did actually I still have the piercing even though I dont wear a stud anymore...I streched it down to a 2 gauge which is about the size of a pen but a tad smaller. I havent worn a stud in years so im starting to think it may never close...
I also had my labret pierced I think thats how you spell it...iono but I never streched that one
It won't.
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Just never figured you for the type. It's cool, not judging.
LOL thats ok you can judge me...now looking back I think it was pretty dumb myself I must have looked like an idiot to some ppl but ive never cared.
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It won't.
actually I kinda like the idea that it wont but its just kinda wierd that its been so long and its still there but then again i have a small divot in my chin from the labret piercing too hahahahha
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LOL thats ok you can judge me...now looking back I think it was pretty dumb myself I must have looked like an idiot to some ppl but ive never cared.
naaa, I'm not going to call you out on it. We all do shit in our teens that we wouldn't later, even if you had them in now I wouldn't judge. It's not any of that, for some reason I just had you pictured as the strict traditional conservative type Texan, that's all.
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naaa, I'm not going to call you out on it. We all do shit in our teens that we wouldn't later, even if you had them in now I wouldn't judge. It's not any of that, for some reason I just had you pictured as the strict traditional conservative type Texan, that's all.
LOL well I am pretty conservative in terms of family values and society but I probably dont really look the part ;D
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lol what did chris rock say about tongue rings?
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Was School Strip-Search Legal?
Case Pits Students' Privacy Rights vs. Need to Keep Drugs, Weapons Out of Schools
By REYNOLDS HOLDING
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
March 28, 2008
This article is two years old? What's newsworthy about it now? Did something happen with the case?
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newsworthy to those who didn't know about it. It also doesn't have to be new to be worth debating. I don't remember debating it here. I thought it was interesting to talk about so it doesn't bug me that's it's 2 years old.
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It doesn't bug me either, just asking why she posted it now. I thought maybe a decision came down or something.
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It doesn't bug me either, just asking why she posted it now. I thought maybe a decision came down or something.
Her and SAMSON are anti-American so anything they find to point out how bad America is they post it without regards to how old it is.
Still a good topic for debate, could happen in any country, even canada.
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If they need to search a kid they need to bring in the police to do it.This is just like drug testing student athletes.I wouldnt allow my son to piss in a cup in front of a school administrator.You want piss,bring him to a lab and have professionals do it I will pay for it,but some piss ant teacher isnt going to do it.
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If they need to search a kid they need to bring in the police to do it.This is just like drug testing student athletes.I wouldnt allow my son to piss in a cup in front of a school administrator.You want piss,bring him to a lab and have professionals do it I will pay for it,but some piss ant teacher isnt going to do it.
but you're ok with them being exposed to a stranger via nude scan in the airport? I'm getting whiplash reading your posts lol...
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but you're ok with them being exposed to a stranger via nude scan in the airport? I'm getting whiplash reading your posts lol...
The nude scan is black and white and you cant make out a thing.By the way,the people doing the scanning are professionals whos profession it is to do such a job.Is a filthy punk ass teacher or coach an expert on collecting urine samples?Is a filthy school administrator an expert on strip searches?