Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ~UN_$ung~ on April 02, 2010, 10:23:33 AM
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we forget what a superb bodybuilder mike francois was, literally no weak points.
other then that he won some pro shows, most notable the ASC in the mid 90s i dont know much about him........can anyone fill us in?
why didnt he ever get more notoriety? why did his career end early? why was his talent not fully realized?
(on a side note, notice this clip: the ASC was being presented on ESPN :o :o)
this nationals appearance is even more impressive.....
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we forget what a superb bodybuilder mike francois was, literally no weak points.
other then that he won some pro shows, most notable the ASC in the mid 90s i dont know much about him........can anyone fill us in?
why didnt he ever get more notoriety? why did his career end early? why was his talent not fully realized?
(on a side note, notice this clip: the ASC was being presented on ESPN :o :o)
this nationals appearance is even more impressive.....
he had a great back that's for sure
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Great bodybuilder, trained powerlifting style. He was a ordained Priest or was in seminary, I forgot. There is a pic in Flex mag of a close up of him on the vertical leg press, one eff insane leg shot. He had a black physique though. If he didn't get sick, there would be no Jay Cutler...Mike was the shit...
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we forget what a superb bodybuilder mike francois was, literally no weak points.
other then that he won some pro shows, most notable the ASC in the mid 90s i dont know much about him........can anyone fill us in?
why didnt he ever get more notoriety? why did his career end early? why was his talent not fully realized?
(on a side note, notice this clip: the ASC was being presented on ESPN :o :o)
this nationals appearance is even more impressive.....
??? Did bodybuilding used to be a sport?
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Great bodybuilder, trained powerlifting style. He was a ordained Priest or was in seminary, I forgot. There is a pic in Flex mag of a close up of him on the vertical leg press, one eff insane leg shot. He had a black physique though. If he didn't get sick, there would be no Jay Cutler...Mike was the shit...
is that what happened, he got sick???
was it a typical 90s BB type thing, liver or kidneys??
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is that what happened, he got sick???
was it a typical 90s BB type thing, liver or kidneys??
colon, they removed alot of it.
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colon, they removed alot of it.
is that a joke?
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is that a joke?
not a joke...true story.
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not a joke...true story.
well did it have anything to do with the bodybuilding lifestyle and the "supplements"
or was it just a freak thing??
this guys owns jay cutler genetically, yates as well
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is that what happened, he got sick???
was it a typical 90s BB type thing, liver or kidneys??
Severe Ulcerative Colitis I believe...he had to have one of those "bags"as well, I think. Came at the wrong time, he was on the verge of becoming the next "one"...
It seems the ones destined for greatness are shot down early, like Dennis Newman and his luekemia, Don Long, etc. All three had the "model face" look. Which is why Weider banked heavily on them.
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well did it have anything to do with the bodybuilding lifestyle and the "supplements"
or was it just a freak thing??
this guys owns jay cutler genetically, yates as well
i dont think gear had a hand in the problem. mike was great but his abs sucked(genetically) and he was not as thick as Yates in the back. standing next to Yates he was no where near as big.
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
don't you have a suicide bombing to practice for?
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i dont think gear had a hand in the problem. mike was great but his abs sucked(genetically) and he was not as thick as Yates in the back. standing next to Yates he was no where near as big.
yeh, i will concede that his abs were probably his weakest part
but his back was pretty impressive............it just seems like he didnt have alot of time.......he was on the scene in like 93--94 and off by what, 96?
(http://www.darkwoods.com/bodybuilder/male/bb/gallery/fullsize/franc60.jpg)
(http://www.darkwoods.com/bodybuilder/male/bb/gallery/fullsize/franc36.jpg)
(http://www.darkwoods.com/bodybuilder/male/bb/gallery/fullsize/franc08.jpg)
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
Yeah, but he placed 3rd at the ASC and won a couple of pro shows:
http://musclememory.com
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He has a pretty successful personal training business in Columbus and he promotes the Francois Classic each May. His calves are still big as shit!!!!!!
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Yeah, but he placed 3rd at the ASC and won a couple of pro shows:
http://musclememory.com
He won the AC in 95, then got 7th at the Olympia that year. Got 3rd at one AC behind Wheeler and Nasser. Unfairly won the NOC in 94. Like I said, good bodybuilder overall but to consider him as top tier is a stretch
Besides, everyone says Wheeler was weak in 95 so was the 95 AC win that big of a deal, especially considering that later in the same year the AC winner lost to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd placers from the 95 NOC (which is supposed to be a weaker show) at the Olympia? (Nasser, Taylor and Cormier)
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I would have considered him top tier at his time.
Not now. I think what is being said about him is that if he did not get sick and competed longer he would have done even more. Besides his abs, his other weakness (back thickness) could have been improved.
Great bodybuilder IMO.
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Yeah, but he placed 3rd at the ASC and won a couple of pro shows:
http://musclememory.com
no he won the ASC in 95
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
You're just being biased because he's not Nasser ::) ::)
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I would have considered him top tier at his time.
Not now. I think what is being said about him is that if he did not get sick and competed longer he would have done even more. Besides his abs, his other weakness (back thickness) could have been improved.
Great bodybuilder IMO.
Are you serious? Back and back thickness was his strong points.
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I would have considered him top tier at his time.
Not now. I think what is being said about him is that if he did not get sick and competed longer he would have done even more. Besides his abs, his other weakness (back thickness) could have been improved.
Great bodybuilder IMO.
Maybe, but I dont think its very likely that he would have cracked top 6 at an Olympia or few.
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You're just being biased because he's not Nasser ::) ::)
Look at the facts I posted
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Are you serious? Back and back thickness was his strong points.
thats what im saying, look at a few of the pics Nd and i posted.....he was fameous for having dense, thick spinal erectors
look again at how fuckin thick this back is
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
There are a lot of things you don't understand about bodybuilding old news , hype? he turned pro in 1993 and then proceded to win his first four pro shows beating many seasoned pros in the process
He did better in the spring shows and always came in off during the later ones , if he never got sick he would have surely won more contests
and he was only ' overrated ' because he kicked Nasser's ass at the NOC and Nasser was in good shape too so of course as usual it can't be Nasser was not good enough , no , it had to be politics and bullshit ::) it must suck living your life full of excuses and denial
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thats what im saying, look at a few of the pics Nd and i posted.....he was fameous for having dense, thick spinal erectors
look again at how fuckin thick this back is
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
at one point his back needed improvement and he really improved , I believe this is from his Nationals contest and you can see the difference
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There are a lot of things you don't understand about bodybuilding old news , hype? he turned pro in 1993 and then proceded to win his first four pro shows beating many seasoned pros in the process
He did better in the spring shows and always came in off during the later ones , if he never got sick he would have surely won more contests
and he was only ' overrated ' because he kicked Nasser's ass at the NOC and Nasser was in good shape too so of course as usual it can't be Nasser was not good enough , no , it had to be politics and bullshit ::) it must suck living your life full of excuses and denial
So Muscletime is also "full of excuses and denial" when they posted this? ::)
"Mike Francois won the show with Nasser El Sonbaty in second. (Everbody in the industry knew that Nasser should have won, but he was a newcomer and for some reason he was placed in second"
You know there are opinions that differ from judges in a subjective "sport" without having to be labelled as being "bullshit," "excuses," etc.
He had a good four years but even at his best there's at least 6 guys who he could never beat when they were in their top shape.
You will always blindly say that judges are 100% correct in every show because that's the only way you can justify Dorian winning all 6 of his Mr. Olympias
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Yup its "bullshit" to say that Francois' 94 NOC victory was deserved and anyone who thinks otherwise is "full of excuses and denial" LOL:
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37050&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37053&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37093&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37092&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37051&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37091&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37100&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37099&Itemid=266)
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So Muscletime is also "full of excuses and denial" when they posted this? ::)
"Mike Francois won the show with Nasser El Sonbaty in second. (Everbody in the industry knew that Nasser should have won, but he was a newcomer and for some reason he was placed in second"
You know there are opinions that differ from judges in a subjective "sport" without having to be labelled as being "bullshit," "excuses," etc.
He had a good four years but even at his best there's at least 6 guys who he could never beat when they were in their top shape.
You will always blindly say that judges are 100% correct in every show because that's the only way you can justify Dorian winning all 6 of his Mr. Olympias
wow Mucletime huh? they had Levrone winning in 1992 lol don't use them as a source oh and they had Heath winning too , see a pattern here of Muscltimes opinions?
Just another example of you can't admitting the obvious , your hero wasn't good enough a common theme with you
if Dorian and Mike won fixed contests than all of Nassers wins were fixed as well you can't have it both ways. you're stuck in chasing your tail in circles with this pathetic logic of every single contest being fixed except Nasser's wins it's sad to see you make excuses for a guy who was never and never will be as good as you made him out to be
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So Muscletime is also "full of excuses and denial" when they posted this? ::)
"Mike Francois won the show with Nasser El Sonbaty in second. (Everbody in the industry knew that Nasser should have won, but he was a newcomer and for some reason he was placed in second"
You know there are opinions that differ from judges in a subjective "sport" without having to be labelled as being "bullshit," "excuses," etc.
He had a good four years but even at his best there's at least 6 guys who he could never beat when they were in their top shape.
You will always blindly say that judges are 100% correct in every show because that's the only way you can justify Dorian winning all 6 of his Mr. Olympias
with the exception of 97 I think Dorian dominated every year and deserved straight firsts.
you can have 97 Dorian looked gross as fuck (esp from front)
Dorian shoulda been knocked off to second IMO for his gut, seeing how Nasser was in decent shape.
If Nasser showed up in 97 like he did in 95 I think the judges would have had no choice but to give Nasser the title
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wow Mucletime huh? they had Levrone winning in 1992 lol don't use them as a source oh and they had Heath winning too , see a pattern here of Muscltimes opinions?
Just another example of you can't admitting the obvious , your hero wasn't good enough a common theme with you
if Dorian and Mike won fixed contests than all of Nassers wins were fixed as well you can't have it both ways. you're stuck in chasing your tail in circles with this pathetic logic of every single contest being fixed except Nasser's wins it's sad to see you make excuses for a guy who was never and never will be as good as you made him out to be
All I'm saying is in a subjective "sport" there are biases, and in shows like 94 NOC, 97 Olympia, 2007 Olympia, some others - the biases show pretty clearly!
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with the exception of 97 I think Dorian dominated every year and deserved straight firsts.
you can have 97 Dorian looked gross as fuck (esp from front)
Dorian shoulda been knocked off to second IMO for his gut, seeing how Nasser was in decent shape.
If Nasser showed up in 97 like he did in 95 I think the judges would have had no choice but to give Nasser the title
So in other words you agree that judges are not always 100% correct, in other words you disagree with ND on that.
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So in other words you agree that judges are not always 100% correct, in other words you disagree with ND on that.
well looking at what the judges were looking for dorian was the winner ;D but im just saying for the sport, nasser shoulda won, looks bad when your champ looks like that, and runner up looks basically as good with out gut.
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So Muscletime is also "full of excuses and denial" when they posted this? ::)
"Mike Francois won the show with Nasser El Sonbaty in second. (Everbody in the industry knew that Nasser should have won, but he was a newcomer and for some reason he was placed in second"
Nasser was a newcomer in his 4th pro show, but Francois wasn't in his 2nd?
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well looking at what the judges were looking for dorian was the winner ;D but im just saying for the sport, nasser shoulda won, looks bad when your champ looks like that, and runner up looks basically as good with out gut.
Fair opinion. I think most people agree that judges do have their biases, ND is the only one who seems to insist every show is 100% fair.
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Francois looked better than Nasser. The first bodybuilding Mag a i ever bought was a Ironman mag that had the contest in it. I was a Francois fan after that. Francois won it fair and square. Better aesthetics than Nasser, better conditioning and better back. In fact, Alq Gurley should have placed ahead of Nasser as well.
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Nasser was a newcomer in his 4th pro show, but Francois wasn't in his 2nd?
Was one of Nasser's first shows in the U.S. Francois was competing in the U.S. Nationals, was much more known than Nasser was at the time, and the cards were on him before the show started.
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They also had a Flex mag photoshoot scheduled for the morning after the show together - Nasser and Francois. Francois "conveniently" did not show up, probably didn't want to have more comparison pics in Flex mag where people would question his victory.
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All I'm saying is in a subjective "sport" there are biases, and in shows like 94 NOC, 97 Olympia, 2007 Olympia, some others - the biases show pretty clearly!
You all you're saying is Nasser was better than he was and the judges disagree , I'm sure guys who competed in contests Nasser won felt there were biases as well does that make them right?
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Francois looked better than Nasser. The first bodybuilding Mag a i ever bought was a Ironman mag that had the contest in it. I was a Francois fan after that. Francois won it fair and square. Better aesthetics than Nasser, better conditioning and better back. In fact, Alq Gurley should have placed ahead of Nasser as well.
Better back yes, and Nasser had him on every other bodypart as well as overall condition and aesthetics. Just look at the pictures.
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Fair opinion. I think most people agree that judges do have their biases, ND is the only one who seems to insist every show is 100% fair.
The judges simply ranked the competitors on a sheet of paper, awarding the best man one point, the second two and so on. It was a simple
method in which the lowest score won. DeMilia had devised a system where the computer randomly selected one judge per round as an alternate,
thus eliminating their score. It then removed the three highest and the three lowest scoring judges. From the twelve judges, then, just five papers
counted in any one round, and the judges were unaware of which they were, " To fix a contest, definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt, Wayne had
told me, somewhat gleefully, ' you gotta buy off nine judges. I figured this out mathematically. You gotta buy off nine judges. In our sport, with all
the big mouths and gossips and everything else, you think nine judges could keep their mouths shut? And lets face it, you gotta go to nine
judges and one says ' I don't wanna do it, ' you gotta go to number ten...You think that one other guy ain't gonna talk? ' Hey he tried to buy me
off, but I didn't take it. He didn't offer me enough money..." how much money is it gonna take.?"
Learn how contests are judged and then come to your senses , Nasser wasn't as good as you think he was facts prove this
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You all you're saying is Nasser was better than he was and the judges disagree , I'm sure guys who competed in contests Nasser won felt there were biases as well does that make them right?
Nope, in fact they are entitled to their opinion, but when someone argues that every judging decision is 100% perfect that's just silly, and I know the reason you insist on that is to justify all of Dorian's wins.
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Was one of Nasser's first shows in the U.S. Francois was competing in the U.S. Nationals, was much more known than Nasser was at the time, and the cards were on him before the show started.
I think judging by the pics you posted it coulda went either way, but i'm a little nasser biased so who knows.
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Nope, in fact they are entitled to their opinion, but when someone argues that every judging decision is 100% perfect that's just silly, and I know the reason you insist on that is to justify all of Dorian's wins.
See above with this information to claim contests are fixed is ignorant and lame , in fact let me post it again
The judges simply ranked the competitors on a sheet of paper, awarding the best man one point, the second two and so on. It was a simple
method in which the lowest score won. DeMilia had devised a system where the computer randomly selected one judge per round as an alternate,
thus eliminating their score. It then removed the three highest and the three lowest scoring judges. From the twelve judges, then, just five papers
counted in any one round, and the judges were unaware of which they were, " To fix a contest, definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt, Wayne had
told me, somewhat gleefully, ' you gotta buy off nine judges. I figured this out mathematically. You gotta buy off nine judges. In our sport, with all
the big mouths and gossips and everything else, you think nine judges could keep their mouths shut? And lets face it, you gotta go to nine
judges and one says ' I don't wanna do it, ' you gotta go to number ten...You think that one other guy ain't gonna talk? ' Hey he tried to buy me
off, but I didn't take it. He didn't offer me enough money..." how much money is it gonna take.?"
-
The judges simply ranked the competitors on a sheet of paper, awarding the best man one point, the second two and so on. It was a simple
method in which the lowest score won. DeMilia had devised a system where the computer randomly selected one judge per round as an alternate,
thus eliminating their score. It then removed the three highest and the three lowest scoring judges. From the twelve judges, then, just five papers
counted in any one round, and the judges were unaware of which they were, " To fix a contest, definitely beyond a shadow of a doubt, Wayne had
told me, somewhat gleefully, ' you gotta buy off nine judges. I figured this out mathematically. You gotta buy off nine judges. In our sport, with all
the big mouths and gossips and everything else, you think nine judges could keep their mouths shut? And lets face it, you gotta go to nine
judges and one says ' I don't wanna do it, ' you gotta go to number ten...You think that one other guy ain't gonna talk? ' Hey he tried to buy me
off, but I didn't take it. He didn't offer me enough money..." how much money is it gonna take.?"
Learn how contests are judged and then come to your senses , Nasser wasn't as good as you think he was facts prove this
Yup, and if Wayne D said it it must be true lol
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Yup, and if Wayne D said it it must be true lol
There you go , when faced with facts looks for a way out. That's exactly how contests are judged if you claim a contest was fixed you would have to buy off 9 judges NINE !!
you can't offer up a cognizant response so question Wayne ::) you're in a perpetual state of denial and making excuses , if contexts are fixed Nasser's wins were fixed you can't have it any other way
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There you go , when faced with facts looks for a way out. That's exactly how contests are judged if you claim a contest was fixed you would have to buy off 9 judges NINE !!
you can't offer up a cognizant response so question Wayne ::) you're in a perpetual state of denial and making excuses , if contexts are fixed Nasser's wins were fixed you can't have it any other way
Obviously Wayne is not going to admit that his judging system has flaws lol - you make it sound like its blasphemy to question one man's claims about a judging system under him.
And at times you seem intelligent then I wonder why its so hard for you to understand (and I have to keep repeating myself) - I never said all contests are "fixed" just that many judges have biases and the majority of people would agree with me on that. Sure someone can claim that biases favoured Nasser if they like, I'd argue that the pictures show otherwise.
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Obviously Wayne is not going to admit that his judging system has flaws lol - you make it sound like its blasphemy to question one man's claims about a judging system under him.
And at times you seem intelligent then I wonder why its so hard for you to understand (and I have to keep repeating myself) - I never said all contests are "fixed" just that many judges have biases and the majority of people would agree with me on that. Sure someone can claim that biases favoured Nasser if they like, I'd argue that the pictures show otherwise.
true judges are humans, biases for a certain look that is not in line with the system can occur
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at one point his back needed improvement and he really improved , I believe this is from his Nationals contest and you can see the difference
there is one reason and one reason that he got that back only.
he worked with Louie Simmons and westsidebarbell club and they lived on good mornings,reverse hypers, all lower back work I read about it a while ago..
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(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37093&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37092&Itemid=266)
They used to say that in bodybuilding the best back usually wins ;)
Nasser might have been bigger and better in some poses but he had absolutely no back in these pics.
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Yup its "bullshit" to say that Francois' 94 NOC victory was deserved and anyone who thinks otherwise is "full of excuses and denial" LOL:
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37050&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37053&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37093&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37092&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37051&Itemid=202)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37091&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37100&Itemid=266)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37099&Itemid=266)
way to shoot yourself in the foot AGAIN knobs........except for that side tricep (where francois is still in transition) francois is beating nasser handedly in every single shot. and on every level, conditioning and mass . i will conced ethat nasser had better abdominals.
for future reference, when you are trying to make a point using pictures....it helps if the pictures actually contribute to you making your point.
as one would expect, nasser is being particularly dominated in the back shots
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way to shoot yourself in the foot AGAIN knobs........except for that side tricep (where francois is still in transition) francois is beating nasser handedly in every single shot. and on every level, conditioning and mass . i will conced ethat nasser had better abdominals.
for future reference, when you are trying to make a point using pictures....it helps if the pictures actually contribute to you making your point.
as one would expect, nasser is being particularly dominated in the back shots
i see nasser winning the last 2 shots as well.
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way to shoot yourself in the foot AGAIN knobs........except for that side tricep (where francois is still in transition) francois is beating nasser handedly in every single shot. and on every level, conditioning and mass . i will conced ethat nasser had better abdominals.
for future reference, when you are trying to make a point using pictures....it helps if the pictures actually contribute to you making your point.
as one would expect, nasser is being particularly dominated in the back shots
The ONLY shots Francois is winning are the back ones, no way in hell is Francois winning the FDB, FLS, front relaxed, etc. - same woudl be the case for the ab-thigh shot I just dont have a comparison pic but can post singles but whats the point when guys like you show your blind opinions.
and lmao Francois is not "in transition" in any of those shots.
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Obviously Wayne is not going to admit that his judging system has flaws lol - you make it sound like its blasphemy to question one man's claims about a judging system under him.
And at times you seem intelligent then I wonder why its so hard for you to understand (and I have to keep repeating myself) - I never said all contests are "fixed" just that many judges have biases and the majority of people would agree with me on that. Sure someone can claim that biases favoured Nasser if they like, I'd argue that the pictures show otherwise.
Flawed how? what a just posted proves it's highly improbable to fix a contest
okay we agree contests aren't fixed and Nasser wasn't good enough to win , gotcha
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Flawed how? what a just posted proves it's highly improbable to fix a contest
Are you actually listening to yourself? It's like saying why would IRS ever need to audit someone, if the taxpayer claims there is no tax evasion it "proves" it lol. There's something called independence, and Wayne Demilia is not independent such that what he claims about his judging system acts as "proof" lol.
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Are you actually listening to yourself? It's like saying why would IRS ever need to audit someone, if the taxpayer claims there is no tax evision it "proves" it lol. There's something called independence, and Wayne Demilia is independent such that what he claims about his judging system acts as "proof" lol.
again elaborate on how it's flawed , it's next to impossible to fix a contest , explain how it's flawed. It's flawed because you see pictures 15 years after the fact? I mean serious elaborate on your position
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The ONLY shots Francois is winning are the back ones, no way in hell is Francois winning the FDB, FLS, front relaxed, etc. - same woudl be the case for the ab-thigh shot I just dont have a comparison pic but can post singles but whats the point when guys like you show your blind opinions.
and lmao Francois is not "in transition" in any of those shots.
he is absolutely in transition during the sife tri shot, nasser is hitting the pose, flexing the tri, and francois is not
this is a photo (all be it grainy) of francois hitting a side tri
(http://www.darkwoods.com/bodybuilder/male/bb/gallery/fullsize/franc07.jpg)
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i dont think gear had a hand in the problem. mike was great but his abs sucked(genetically) and he was not as thick as Yates in the back. standing next to Yates he was no where near as big.
"i dont think gear had a hand in the problem....."
rofl.. ;D ::) :o
the naivety is strong in you young padawan.
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he is absolutely in transition during the sife tri shot, nasser is hitting the pose, flexing the tri, and francois is not
this is a photo (all be it grainy) of francois hitting a side tri
(http://www.darkwoods.com/bodybuilder/male/bb/gallery/fullsize/franc07.jpg)
How convenient he's not flexing inthe below pic lol - the below is a 1/4 turn pose, not a side tricep and he is clearly hitting the pose. The pic you posted above is a solo shot, b&w and not even a great shot his triceps look small there
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37051&Itemid=202)
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"i dont think gear had a hand in the problem....."
rofl.. ;D ::) :o
the naivety is strong in you young padawan.
how would gear contribute to a colon problem? im not being sarcastic. maybe you know something i do not
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How convenient he's not flexing inthe below pic lol - the below is a 1/4 turn pose, not a side tricep and he is clearly hitting the pose. The pic you posted above is a solo shot, b&w and not even a great shot his triceps look small there
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37051&Itemid=202)
nothing particularly convenient, im not looking to be in "teammike".....but you have to concede that the particular in question showed nasser fully flexed while francois was not
that is all i was saying
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nothing particularly convenient, im not looking to be in "teammike".....but you have to concede that the particular in question showed nasser fully flexed while francois was not
that is all i was saying
He is fully flexed in the comparison 1/4 turn pose with Nasser.
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He is fully flexed in the comparison 1/4 turn pose with Nasser.
You can't be sure you're speculating
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You can't be sure you're speculating
no speculation at all you can clearly see his arm is straightened out, elbow is not bent - when the arm is completely straight the tricep is flexed you should know this
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He is fully flexed in the comparison 1/4 turn pose with Nasser.
this such a stupid point to agrue, but he is not fully flexed in that photo
nasser is, and you can tell by the fact that he is turned towards the crowd, arm fully extended, shoulder down, pushing out with his hand (the way one does when they are typically flexing a tri)
while francois is not doing any of those things, he is still just standing at a quarter turn
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this such a stupid point to agrue, but he is not fully flexed in that photo
nasser is, and you can tell by the fact that he is turned towards the crowd, arm fully extended, shoulder down, pushing out with his hand (the way one does when they are typically flexing a tri)
while francois is not doing any of those things, he is still just standing at a quarter turn
That's the way he's hitting his 1/4 turn, not everybody turns to the crowd or lean forward in fact most people dont - but the fact that his arm is straightened shows its flexed.
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Let me guess he isnt fully flexed here either? ::)
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37099&Itemid=266)
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no speculation at all you can clearly see his arm is straightened out, elbow is not bent - when the arm is completely straight the tricep is flexed you should know this
I agree he's starting to tense up and stand upright however his arm doesn't look like it's fully flexed yet
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I agree he's starting to tense up and stand upright however his arm doesn't look like it's fully flexed yet
Try this yourself - extend your arm out completely such that your elbow is not bent - and voila your tricep is flexed its impossible to lock your elbow without flexing your tricep
Pretty sad that you guys are trying to dismiss this comparison by claiming he's in transition or tensed but not flexed especially when the difference between them is night and day
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Flawed how? what a just posted proves it's highly improbable to fix a contest
okay we agree contests aren't fixed and Nasser wasn't good enough to win , gotcha
To be fair even Flex Mag said the contest judging was a joke, Nasser won easily and they had Alq Gurley in 2nd and Francois in 3rd. From the pics that is pretty much true.
The problem is that BigBobs keeps saying Nasser should have won everything and was screwed over where there are times where he got gifts as well (99 Mr.O, 00 Mr.O, 99 Arnold) after he was going downhill so it's hard to take something like this seriously.
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You're just being biased because he's not Nasser ::) ::)
Bigbobs thinks that every contest Nasser loses or does not place well was judged unfairly. The one that he did win or place highly in, it was judged fairly...
When Mike won the 95 Arnold, Haney had said he thought Flex should have won, he said Mike was too blocky, and Flex shape was great. But Flex was out of condition, his barometer was the 93 Arnold/Mr. O, and he didn't meet that. I think it could have gone either way...
Now, that is a objective view, and I am a Flex fan, but I can concede that Mike was in better condition.
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Try this yourself - extend your arm out completely such that your elbow is not bent - and voila your tricep is flexed its impossible to lock your elbow without flexing your tricep
Pretty sad that you guys are trying to dismiss this comparison by claiming he's in transition or tensed but not flexed especially when the difference between them is night and day
Again he could be in the last moments of flexing , he could be in the process of pressing his lats against the tricep it's NOT impossible to lock your tricep without flexing your tricep that's analogous to saying it's impossible to stand straight without flexing your quads
he lost get over it , wow I tend to say that to you a lot ;D
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To be fair even Flex Mag said the contest judging was a joke, Nasser won easily and they had Alq Gurley in 2nd and Francois in 3rd. From the pics that is pretty much true.
The problem is that BigBobs keeps saying Nasser should have won everything and was screwed over where there are times where he got gifts as well (99 Mr.O, 00 Mr.O, 99 Arnold) after he was going downhill so it's hard to take something like this seriously.
Impossible, how can Flex mag say the contest was judged incorrectly according to ND all contest decisions are 100% accurate lol. And funny how he uses Flex mag qoutes when convenient and here he'll dismiss what Flex says. ::)
Jokes aside, its good to see someone here posting an honest opinion.
What I post about in other threads about other shows should have no bearing how people interpret pictures in this thread.
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Again he could be in the last moments of flexing , he could be in the process of pressing his lats against the tricep it's NOT impossible to lock your tricep without flexing your tricep that's analogous to saying it's impossible to stand straight without flexing your quads
he lost get over it , wow I tend to say that to you a lot ;D
Could, could, could, fact is he's getting owned in that shot.
And yes it is impossible to completely lock your elbow without having your tricep flexed its not the same as your knee joint lol. When you hang your arm completely the arm is slightly bent at the elbow whereas the knee is not.
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Could, could, could, fact is he's getting owned in that shot.
And yes it is impossible to completely lock your elbow without having your tricep flexed its not the same as your knee joint lol. When you hang your arm completely the arm is slightly bent at the elbow whereas the knee is not.
you're grasping at straws and Nasser does in my opinion beat him in a few shots but as usual overall he loses
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No i think Nasser beats him easily. Bigger and harder, and even better structure than Francois. What more do you need?
Nasser lost that streamlined look from 95-98 but he had no choice if he wanted to try and beat Dorian.
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Impossible, how can Flex mag say the contest was judged incorrectly according to ND all contest decisions are 100% accurate lol. And funny how he uses Flex mag qoutes when convenient and here he'll dismiss what Flex says. ::)
Jokes aside, its good to see someone here posting an honest opinion.
What I post about in other threads about other shows should have no bearing how people interpret pictures in this thread.
When did Flex say a contest was judged incorrectly? and in the end the ONLY opinions that matter are the judges , not the competitors , fans , writers , magazines , websites , blogs
Nasser's contests wins weren't 100% accurate then if someone says they weren't? great logic BTW ;D
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Try this yourself - extend your arm out completely such that your elbow is not bent - and voila your tricep is flexed its impossible to lock your elbow without flexing your tricep
Pretty sad that you guys are trying to dismiss this comparison by claiming he's in transition or tensed but not flexed especially when the difference between them is night and day
When you fully hit the pose, you are looking at the audience and the judges, not the back of someone's head. Duh.
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Nasser looks great in certain poses, thats for sure. But, contrary to Yates, he looks better in pictures than in videos. I just had to find my old 97 Mr.O and take a closer look. Actually, I was quite disappointed to see Nasser there. His back was so weak that it kinda 'cancels' the rest of his physique. When you have a back (and all its muscles) so underdeveloped, it ruins everything.
Its like three-legged chair - it falls over regardsless of the strength of the other legs...
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When did Flex say a contest was judged incorrectly? and in the end the ONLY opinions that matter are the judges , not the competitors , fans , writers , magazines , websites , blogs
Nasser's contests wins weren't 100% accurate then if someone says they weren't? great logic BTW ;D
They said the judging at the 94 NOC was a joke.
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When you fully hit the pose, you are looking at the audience and the judges, not the back of someone's head. Duh.
*yawn* - most pros look straight ahead during the 1/4 turn pose.
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Nasser looks great in certain poses, thats for sure. But, contrary to Yates, he looks better in pictures than in videos. I just had to find my old 97 Mr.O and take a closer look. Actually, I was quite disappointed to see Nasser there. His back was so weak that it kinda 'cancels' the rest of his physique. When you have a back (and all its muscles) so underdeveloped, it ruins everything.
Its like three-legged chair - it falls over regardsless of the strength of the other legs...
I've seen a few 96 Grand Prix's. I remember an English contest writer said the other guys were catching up to Yates at those contests. But from what i saw Dorian won easily, maybe no bigger than Nasser or Dillet but his hardness was unreal. That's why he won everything including the 97 Mr.O.
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*yawn* - most pros look straight ahead during the 1/4 turn pose.
not really they try and make eye contact with the judges
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*yawn* - most pros look straight ahead during the 1/4 turn pose.
So, Nasser is doing it incorrectly?
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not really they try and make eye contact with the judges
Some do, some don't. Regardless, looking straight ahead is no indication that you are not flexed. However, straight arm and locked elbow are, especially for someone with pro size.
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They said the judging at the 94 NOC was a joke.
I don't recall that and even if they did it doesn't matter , only the judges matter
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Francois was the real deal, dude was thick as hell and complete. If he hadn't gotten sick he would have won more contests for sure and definitely had the potential to be in the top 6 at the Olympia.
He clearly beat Nasser for the same reason others did, he was more complete. Nasser has no one to blame for his failures but himself, his back is simply embarrasing in every way.
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So, Nasser is doing it incorrectly?
Never knew there's a defined position of your head during the pose. You seem a little slow today.
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Francios was the real deal, dude was thick as hell and complete. If he hadn't gotten sick he would have won more contests for sure and definitely had the potential to be in the top 6 at the Olympia.
He clearly beat Nasser for the same reason others did, he was more complete. Nasser has no one to blame for his failures but himself, his back is simply embarrasing in every way.
Funny that you describe Nasser's contest career as a "failure" while you judge Francois' potential as to whether or not he can just crack the top 6 - something Nasser did for many years.
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I don't recall that and even if they did it doesn't matter , only the judges matter
And after the 94 NOC never once did the judges place Francois ahead of Nasser.
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Funny that you describe Nasser's contest career as a "failure" while you judge Francois' potential as to whether or not he can just crack the top 6 - something Nasser did for many years.
Did Nasser win his first four pro shows he entered? did he beat many established pros right out of the cage? NO Nasser's career was ho-hum 6 wins in a TON of tries not that impressive
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Never knew there's a defined position of your head during the pose. You seem a little slow today.
Nasser is facing the crowd, fully flexed, Mike is not, and facing Nasser's back.
Face it Nasser lost, fair and square. He lost due to lacking a back, and this early on in his career he never tried to fix it. Why? Well it was ego...he dcided to play the size game, instead of focusing on size and detail. Had he so, he possibly would have won more Arnold's and a Mr. O.
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Did Nasser win his first four pro shows he entered? did he beat many established pros right out of the cage? NO Nasser's career was ho-hum 6 wins in a TON of tries not that impressive
Nasser turned pro from Yugoslavia, where there's lesser competition than the NPC - so during his first several years as a pro he was still early in his career, growing and improving. In contrast most guys who get their pro card from winning the USA have already spent most of their years of improving because the competition is so much more tough. How many people who get their Pro card in the USA continue to grow leaps and bounds afte their USA win? not very often, that's why I think its premature and unlikely to argue that Francois would have gotten much better or had so much unseen potential. Possible but not so likely the way his fans make it seem. Besides, he was competing for what four years after his USA win?
And as for Nasser's career, he got top 3 in 29 of 31 consecutive shows over 4 years and yes that is very impressive. More so than Francois'
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Nasser is facing the crowd, fully flexed, Mike is not, and facing Nasser's back.
He's getting ONWED incredibly in that shot regardless of his head positioning or even for arguments sake if he wasn't fully flexed it woudnt make a difference because of how far behind he is.
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(http://www.bodyfreaks.com/photoplog/images/1/large/1_533443939_31a21e9055.jpg)
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Nasser turned pro from Yugoslavia, where there's lesser competition than the NPC - so during his first several years as a pro he was still early in his career, growing and improving. In contrast most guys who get their pro card from winning the USA have already spent most of their years of improving because the competition is so much more tough. How many people who get their Pro card in the USA continue to grow leaps and bounds afte their USA win? not very often, that's why I think its premature and unlikely to argue that Francois would have gotten much better or had so much unseen potential. Possible but not so likely the way his fans make it seem. Besides, he was competing for what four years after his USA win?
And as for Nasser's career, he got top 3 in 29 of 31 consecutive shows over 4 years and yes that is very impressive. More so than Francois'
Mike improved once he turned pro and that's besides the point , Nasser probably wouldn't have been able to turn pro when he did if he had to compete in the Nationals or the USA like you conceded it's much tougher , however I asked how did he fare in relation to Mike once he turned pro
what's more impressive than Mike? Nasser didn't get sick? Nasser in all his contest only won two more than Mike in 53 contests , Mike only competed in 9 and won 4 that's a fuck of a lot more impressive
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Nasser turned pro from Yugoslavia, where there's lesser competition than the NPC - so during his first several years as a pro he was still early in his career, growing and improving. In contrast most guys who get their pro card from winning the USA have already spent most of their years of improving because the competition is so much more tough. How many people who get their Pro card in the USA continue to grow leaps and bounds afte their USA win? not very often, that's why I think its premature and unlikely to argue that Francois would have gotten much better or had so much unseen potential. Possible but not so likely the way his fans make it seem. Besides, he was competing for what four years after his USA win?
And as for Nasser's career, he got top 3 in 29 of 31 consecutive shows over 4 years and yes that is very impressive. More so than Francois'
nice try, but you cant make that kind of claim with bodybuilding competitions because shows are weighted differently
a guy who wins 1 arnold classics is held in much higher esteem then a guys who wins 7 europa shows
just like try brewer could win 10 excalibur's and not be as good a bodybuilder as the guy who gets second in nationals
on top of that, francois never hit his stride.....he came on the scene wiht a bang and abruptly left.....he never really had a "prime"
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nice try, but you cant make that kind of claim with bodybuilding competitions because shows are weighted differently
a guy who wins 1 arnold classics is held in much higher esteem then a guys who wins 7 europa shows
just like try brewer could win 10 excalibur's and not be as good a bodybuilder as the guy who gets second in nationals
on top of that, francois never hit his stride.....he came on the scene wiht a bang and abruptly left.....he never really had a "prime"
well said
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Mike improved once he turned pro and that's besides the point , Nasser probably wouldn't have been able to turn pro when he did if he had to compete in the Nationals or the USA like you conceded it's much tougher , however I asked how did he fare in relation to Mike once he turned pro
what's more impressive than Mike? Nasser didn't get sick? Nasser in all his contest only won two more than Mike in 53 contests , Mike only competed in 9 and won 4 that's a fuck of a lot more impressive
Seems like your criteria for judging impressiveness is how one does in their first few pro shows and the # of wins over total contests regardless of the # of contests entered into lol, pretty silly criteria.
If Nasser got his pro card in the US like Francois he likely wouldn't have gotten it until 93, his first pro show would have been 94 NOC which we arguably could have won, then of course he won the houston and NOC in 95. Would he have been a better bodybuilder or considered having a more impressive career just because he got his pro card in the US vs. Yugoslavia? ::)
Bottom line Francois had about 4 year after the Mr. USA (which is already very competitive) and during that time did not /could not crack the top 6 at the Olympia although he did come close. Not very strong indication that he would have been a star had he not gotten sick. Lots of guys are in their best shape for their first several years after their USA win then improvements stop.
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nice try, but you cant make that kind of claim with bodybuilding competitions because shows are weighted differently
a guy who wins 1 arnold classics is held in much higher esteem then a guys who wins 7 europa shows
just like try brewer could win 10 excalibur's and not be as good a bodybuilder as the guy who gets second in nationals
on top of that, francois never hit his stride.....he came on the scene wiht a bang and abruptly left.....he never really had a "prime"
so one can't say that Francois' career was more impressive when he only entered what 9 shows, if he hadn't gotten sick his wins/# of shows would have likely decreased, same if he had entered the Grand Prix shows. That's the problem with judging someone's career in such simple terms.
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Francois peaked at the 95 Arnold Classic and never brought quite that same form again onstage even though he continued competed for some years after that before getting sick. Would he have regained his old shape and improved? Possible but unlikely, especially when you consider how few pros come-back after they start going down-hill.
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Seems like your criteria for judging impressiveness is how one does in their first few pro shows and the # of wins over total contests regardless of the # of contests entered into lol, pretty silly criteria.
If Nasser got his pro card in the US like Francois he likely wouldn't have gotten it until 93, his first pro show would have been 94 NOC which we arguably could have won, then of course he won the houston and NOC in 95. Would he have been a better bodybuilder or considered having a more impressive career just because he got his pro card in the US vs. Yugoslavia? ::)
Bottom line Francois had about 4 year after the Mr. USA (which is already very competitive) and during that time did not /could not crack the top 6 at the Olympia although he did come close. Not very strong indication that he would have been a star had he not gotten sick. Lots of guys are in their best shape for their first several years after their USA win then improvements stop.
Seems like your criteria for judging impressiveness is how one does in their first few pro shows and the # of wins over total contests regardless of the # of contests entered into lol, pretty silly criteria.
impressiveness? no contest careers which is what we're talking about yeah I know pretty silly because you don't have the stats to back up Nasser ::)
If Nasser got his pro card in the US like Francois he likely wouldn't have gotten it until 93, his first pro show would have been 94 NOC which we arguably could have won, then of course he won the houston and NOC in 95. Would he have been a better bodybuilder or considered having a more impressive career just because he got his pro card in the US vs. Yugoslavia? ::)
I think he would have been forced to improve faster if he did try and get his pro card in the USA much stiffer competition and posts pics of Nasser's pro card win and I highly doubt he could have beat Francois ( who won it that year ) or Newman or Fletecher maybe I can't say definitively because I haven't seen the pics but admittedly he didn't have much competition in Yugoslavia
Bottom line Francois had about 4 year after the Mr. USA (which is already very competitive) and during that time did not /could not crack the top 6 at the Olympia although he did come close. Not very strong indication that he would have been a star had he not gotten sick. Lots of guys are in their best shape for their first several years after their USA win then improvements stop.
You keep thinking a top 6 in the Olympia is the measure of being a star , winning his first four pro shows is something that wasn't done until Flex , so he was in outstanding company. again he was always sharper ( and improving ) in the spring shows which he won , it's as the year progressed he digressed maybe due to the injury and maybe because he was still learning his body , Nasser was a pro for five years when Mike beat him in his second pro show ever that speaks volumes
His best Olympia was 7th he had plenty of room to improve and would have been more dangerous in time
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so one can't say that Francois' career was more impressive when he only entered what 9 shows, if he hadn't gotten sick his wins/# of shows would have likely decreased, same if he had entered the Grand Prix shows. That's the problem with judging someone's career in such simple terms.
It's more impressive that he managed to win his first 4 pro shows than Nasser , it was more impressive that he only competed in 9 shows and had almost as many wins as Nasser in 50 something , what does that tell us?
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impressiveness? no contest careers which is what we're talking about yeah I know pretty silly because you don't have the stats to back up Nasser ::)
I think he would have been forced to improve faster if he did try and get his pro card in the USA much stiffer competition and posts pics of Nasser's pro card win and I highly doubt he could have beat Francois ( who won it that year ) or Newman or Fletecher maybe I can't say definitively because I haven't seen the pics but admittedly he didn't have much competition in Yugoslavia
You keep thinking a top 6 in the Olympia is the measure of being a star , winning his first four pro shows is something that wasn't done until Flex , so he was in outstanding company. again he was always sharper ( and improving ) in the spring shows which he won , it's as the year progressed he digressed maybe due to the injury and maybe because he was still learning his body , Nasser was a pro for five years when Mike beat him in his second pro show ever that speaks volumes
His best Olympia was 7th he had plenty of room to improve and would have been more dangerous in time
Again you keep stressing that it's noteworthy whether or not you win your first pro show or how many years it took Nasser to get in the top ranks, when in reality the difference is simply a matter of where you happen to have citizenship from which results in where you get your pro card and finally what level in your career you are at when you do finally enter your first pro show.
I never said Francois' career was not impressive, but that the claims and opinions of him held by many are far-fetched. For example the first post in this thread said his condition was "five years" ahead of everyone else. ::) Or people insisting that he would have likely improved had he not gotten sick.
And I do believe Nasser's career was more impressive than Francois' because over many years he placed very high in many shows.
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
Mike won 1st in every pro show he ever did!
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so one can't say that Francois' career was more impressive when he only entered what 9 shows, if he hadn't gotten sick his wins/# of shows would have likely decreased, same if he had entered the Grand Prix shows. That's the problem with judging someone's career in such simple terms.
nasser's career IS more impressive then mike's, im not arguing that
the point of my thread was the unrealized genetic potential of mike, and that he quickly disappeared from the scene; had he not disappeared (got sick), i think he might have had alot more to offer
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It's more impressive that he managed to win his first 4 pro shows than Nasser , it was more impressive that he only competed in 9 shows and had almost as many wins as Nasser in 50 something , what does that tell us?
Ever take statistics? Its hard to judge when you have a small sample (i.e. only 9 shows), and for like the 3rd time or so Francois got his pro card in the US which forced him to be near the top of his career in his first pro show, as opposed to Nasser who was early in his career when he won the pro card from Yugoslavia - purely a result of their citizenships not of their level of physique.
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nasser's career IS more impressive then mike's, im not arguing that
the point of my thread was the unrealized genetic potential of mike, and that he quickly disappeared from the scene; had he not disappeared (got sick), i think he might have had alot more to offer
Okay, putting all the Nasser vs. Francois comparisons behind for now, what do you think of the posts I made above, that Francois peaked in 95 - actually even you said earlier that his NPC Nationals performance was more impressive, meaning his pro shows he was going downhill and he had several years after the NPC Nat's to improve but didn't, and how many pros do you know who peak, then degress for 3-4 years then are able to improve again and unlock some hidden potential?
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Okay, putting all the Nasser vs. Francois comparisons behind for now, what do you think of the posts I made above, that Francois peaked in 95 - actually even you said earlier that his NPC Nationals performance was more impressive, meaning his pro shows he was going downhill and he had several years after the NPC Nat's to improve but didn't, and how many pros do you know who peak, then degress for 3-4 years then are able to improve again and unlock some hidden potential?
i dont knwo its hard to say, i think one can argue that condition wise he came pretty close to peaking at nationals....thats not to say he conditioning in his best pro wins was not superb. now im no francois expert (thats why i started this thread, cause i dont know much about him , but like his genetics) but it does look like he put on some mass after turning pro, so his conditioning was not as spot on as it was when he won nats.
but who knows when the first signs of his health problems began to manifest (which could be responsible for some of the drop off you speak of)
but i agree with you regardless that nassers career is much more impressive then mike's when compared, but had he not gotten sick , who knows, i personally think his genetics are some of the nest i have even seen on a white man
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Again you keep stressing that it's noteworthy whether or not you win your first pro show or how many years it took Nasser to get in the top ranks, when in reality the difference is simply a matter of where you happen to have citizenship from which results in where you get your pro card and finally what level in your career you are at when you do finally enter your first pro show.
I never said Francois' career was not impressive, but that the claims and opinions of him held by many are far-fetched. For example the first post in this thread said his condition was "five years" ahead of everyone else. ::) Or people insisting that he would have likely improved had he not gotten sick.
And I do believe Nasser's career was more impressive than Francois' because over many years he placed very high in many shows.
Again you keep stressing that it's noteworthy whether or not you win your first pro show or how many years it took Nasser to get in the top ranks, when in reality the difference is simply a matter of where you happen to have citizenship from which results in where you get your pro card and finally what level in your career you are at when you do finally enter your first pro show.
No the difference is how good you are in order to walk into your first professional contest and beat many established pros in the process , it's very rare it happens that someone is so advanced , Nasser wasn't this good it took him years to improve
I never said Francois' career was not impressive, but that the claims and opinions of him held by many are far-fetched. For example the first post in this thread said his condition was "five years" ahead of everyone else. ::) Or people insisting that he would have likely improved had he not gotten sick.
Obviously I don't agree he was five years ahead but the fact was he was improving up until the time he quit , look at pics of him from the nationals and then the pros that I posted , he was improving and doing well until he got sick in fact top 3 ( twice ) in his last three contests ( behind Nasser ) ironically Nasser didn't get sick and got worse ;)
And I do believe Nasser's career was more impressive than Francois' because over many years he placed very high in many shows.
if that's the only aspect you wanna go by then sure lets forget Mike didn't get sick , and he won 2 less contests in 40s less tries , Nasser was better because he was more consistent LMFAO
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MEN IN THONGS IS SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!
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i dont knwo its hard to say, i think one can argue that condition wise he came pretty close to peaking at nationals....thats not to say he conditioning in his best pro wins was not superb. now im no francois expert (thats why i started this thread, cause i dont know much about him , but like his genetics) but it does look like he put on some mass after turning pro, so his conditioning was not as spot on as it was when he won nats.
but who knows when the first signs of his health problems began to manifest (which could be responsible for some of the drop off you speak of)
but i agree with you regardless that nassers career is much more impressive then mike's when compared, but had he not gotten sick , who knows, i personally think his genetics are some of the nest i have even seen on a white man
Ha, that last part made me laugh a bit
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No the difference is how good you are in order to walk into your first professional contest and beat many established pros in the process , it's very rare it happens that someone is so advanced , Nasser wasn't this good it took him years to improve
Obviously I don't agree he was five years ahead but the fact was he was improving up until the time he quit , look at pics of him from the nationals and then the pros that I posted , he was improving and doing well until he got sick in fact top 3 ( twice ) in his last three contests ( behind Nasser ) ironically Nasser didn't get sick and got worse ;)
if that's the only aspect you wanna go by then sure lets forget Mike didn't get sick , and he won 2 less contests in 40s less tries , Nasser was better because he was more consistent LMFAO
For the fourth or fifth time your performance in your first pro show largely depends on where your citizenship is from. If Nasser had to get his pro card in the USA's its very likely he would have won his first pro show that doesnt make him any more or less impressive. I judge on how their physique is in their prime, not how many years after getting your pro card it took to reach your prime, because you are at a different point in your career when you get your pro card depending on what country you are from.
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For the fourth or fifth time your performance in your first pro show largely depends on where your citizenship is from. If Nasser had to get his pro card in the USA's its very likely he would have won his first pro show that doesnt make him any more or less impressive. I judge on how their physique is in their prime, not how many years after getting your pro card it took to reach your prime, because you are at a different point in your career when you get your pro card depending on what country you are from.
No he would not have most likely won his first pro show , you fail to understand how rare this is ! you're speculating that Francois hit his prime , NOT likely
Mike accomplished almost as much as Nasser in much less time 4 wins in 9 contests vs Nasser and his 6 in 50-something tries , he career was cut short due to health reasons so who knows what more he could have accomplished
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No he would not have most likely won his first pro show , you fail to understand how rare this is ! you're speculating that Francois hit his prime , NOT likely
Mike accomplished almost as much as Nasser in much less time 4 wins in 9 contests vs Nasser and his 6 in 50-something tries , he career was cut short due to health reasons so who knows what more he could have accomplished
Obviously no one can say for sure but I think it's more likely than not that he would not have become a Mr. Olympia or even top 3 Mr. Olympia competitor if he continued. Just my opinion and I've given my support earlier, you've given yours.
On the "winning your first pro show" Yes I know its rare but I still believe Nasser would have likely won his first pro show...had he been American and got it in 94 he would have definitely won his first pro show (95 Houston/NOC) and even if he got in 93 I think he could have won his 1st pro show (94 NOC which we debated earlier).
Nasser's many 2nd and 3rds placings also count for a lot in such a competitive era. 29 top 3 placings in 31 shows over 4 years ;) Even if you scratch out 96 that's 28 in 30 - pretty consistent over that span.
Question - was Francois sick during his 95 Olympia prep?
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Obviously no one can say for sure but I think it's more likely than not that he would not have become a Mr. Olympia or even top 3 Mr. Olympia competitor if he continued. Just my opinion and I've given my support earlier, you've given yours.
On the "winning your first pro show" Yes I know its rare but I still believe Nasser would have likely won his first pro show...had he been American and got it in 94 he would have definitely won his first pro show (95 Houston/NOC) and even if he got in 93 I think he could have won his 1st pro show (94 NOC which we debated earlier).
Nasser's many 2nd and 3rds placings also count for a lot in such a competitive era. 29 top 3 placings in 31 shows over 4 years ;) Even if you scratch out 96 that's 28 in 30 - pretty consistent over that span.
Question - was Francois sick during his 95 Olympia prep?
Obviously no one can say for sure but I think it's more likely than not that he would not have become a Mr. Olympia or even top 3 Mr. Olympia competitor if he continued. Just my opinion and I've given my support earlier, you've given yours.
Mr Olympia? doubtful then again no one pegged Ronnie
On the "winning your first pro show" Yes I know its rare but I still believe Nasser would have likely won his first pro show...had he been American and got it in 94 he would have definitely won his first pro show (95 Houston/NOC) and even if he got in 93 I think he could have won his 1st pro show (94 NOC which we debated earlier).
who knows more speculation , it's doubtful though
Nasser's many 2nd and 3rds placings also count for a lot in such a competitive era. 29 top 3 placings in 31 shows over 4 years ;) Even if you scratch out 96 that's 28 in 30 - pretty consistent over that span.
Nasser beats him in consistency , but Mike nearly matched his career wins in his first two years that's more impressive , Mike can in like a shooting star and faded most like due to his sickness , Nasser was slow and steady but in the end he only had two more wins in 40 something tries not that impressive
and I'm not sure when Mike illness started
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Francois was better than Nasser in my book. Nasser had a much longer and rewarding career....but if we are just talking physiques, i think mike was better.
Just as massive, better lines and his back absolutely crushed Nasser's. Who knows how great he could have been, that's pure speculation. But when Francois was in his prime he was considered one of the very best
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Francois was better than Nasser in my book. Nasser had a much longer and rewarding career....but if we are just talking physiques, i think mike was better.
Just as massive, better lines and his back absolutely crushed Nasser's. Who knows how great he could have been, that's pure speculation. But when Francois was in his prime he was considered one of the very best
my sentiments exactly...
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Ok, you've convinced us! nasser wins------------------------16 years later.
BigBobs:
Mike Mentzer's legacy in bodybuilding is that his is a cry baby who never got over being beaten by Arnold in the Olympia. It's too bad because he had thousands of followers of Heavy Duty and make a few million dollars along the way--and his legacy is a cray baby.
GetBig is massively popular in the bodybuilding community around the world.
I predict that you have single handedly solidified Nasser's reputation and legacy as a bitter, complaining most hated bitch in the international bodybuilding community.
What a shame.
Nasser, if you have any part in all of this. Shame on you.
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we forget what a superb bodybuilder mike francois was, literally no weak points.
other then that he won some pro shows, most notable the ASC in the mid 90s i dont know much about him........can anyone fill us in?
why didnt he ever get more notoriety? why did his career end early? why was his talent not fully realized?
(on a side note, notice this clip: the ASC was being presented on ESPN :o :o)
this nationals appearance is even more impressive.....
In his offseason, he trained with Louie Simmons at Westside barbell.
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Mr Olympia? doubtful then again no one pegged Ronnie
who knows more speculation , it's doubtful though
Nasser beats him in consistency , but Mike nearly matched his career wins in his first two years that's more impressive , Mike can in like a shooting star and faded most like due to his sickness , Nasser was slow and steady but in the end he only had two more wins in 40 something tries not that impressive
and I'm not sure when Mike illness started
You can hand-pick certain stats all you want, fact is Nasser and Francois competed against each other many times while both were at their best or near best, and Francois only beat him once (94 NOC) which was quite contraversial. You'll never read any reports that Nasser and Francois were close in any of the other shows they competed together in.
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Francois was better than Nasser in my book. Nasser had a much longer and rewarding career....but if we are just talking physiques, i think mike was better.
Just as massive, better lines and his back absolutely crushed Nasser's. Who knows how great he could have been, that's pure speculation. But when Francois was in his prime he was considered one of the very best
Just as massive are you kidding me?! In 94, before Nasser grew a lot, he's still dwarfing Francois in most shots. And better lines? wtf. ::) Look at the pictures again I'm too lazy to repost them but I can if pushed ;)
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Just as massive are you kidding me?! In 94, before Nasser grew a lot, he's still dwarfing Francois in most shots. And better lines? wtf. ::) Look at the pictures again I'm too lazy to repost them but I can if pushed ;)
Nasser carried a bit more size but IMO Francois was much more detailed, rounder, had better muscle quality and had absolutely no weak points on a better structure.
I simply prefer his physique.....you are last person I expect to agree with me.
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Nasser carried a bit more size but IMO Francois was much more detailed, rounder, had better muscle quality and had absolutely no weak points on a better structure.
I simply prefer his physique.....you are last person I expect to agree with me.
You're just throwing random words out now :) It's hard to find comparisons of Nasser and Francois since they were hardly even called out together after 94 ;) Couldn't even fit the two on the same row in the 95 mag ;D
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
Yes, awesome white man genetics. Look at that shot.. incredible. Too bad he got sick.
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You're just throwing random words out now :) It's hard to find comparisons of Nasser and Francois since they were hardly even called out together after 94 ;) Couldn't even fit the two on the same row in the 95 mag ;D
Those pics are from Francois' worst showing, he tried to go for aesthetics and came in looking like shit and small.
Nasser was a bit bigger..but I never liked Nasser's muscle quality and shape, before i even knew who you were.
please post a pic of Nasser that even comes close to this from the rear
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
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I still believe Nasser would have likely won his first pro show...had he been American
Nasser's many 2nd and 3rds placings also count for a lot in such a competitive era.
Why are you going on about Nasser? This thread is about white man genetics.
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Why are you going on about Nasser? This thread is about white man genetics.
BOOONNNGGG ;D ;D
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Why are you going on about Nasser? This thread is about white man genetics.
Babs can never resist a chance to bitch about his perceived injustices perpetrated against the bitter, oil-filled, camel fucking, wife beating, mantie salesman. It got old a couple years ago but it's obviously his life's work.
Sad, isn't it.
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Those pics are from Francois' worst showing, he tried to go for aesthetics and came in looking like shit and small.
Nasser was a bit bigger..but I never liked Nasser's muscle quality and shape, before i even knew who you were.
please post a pic of Nasser that even comes close to this from the rear
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
The pics are from two different showings - ae you saying both were his worst showings?
Yeah Francois had a better back that's it, I can post tons of different poses with the same challenge and you can't find shots of Francois doing the same poses up to Nasser's standard, which is probably why Francois lost to Nasser every time after 94 NOC - they weren't even close in placings
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Why are you going on about Nasser? This thread is about white man genetics.
If you read the thread from the start I wasn't talking about Nasser, just saying Francois is overrated and said that one of his wins was unfair, it was after ND came in with an angry post of his own that it turned into a "Nasser thread" :)
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From the pics posted, Bob makes a good case for Nasser in the front, I think he's right.
The back, as said, isn't close, Nasser loses - which I believe Bob agrees, but overall it should go to Francois. This disparity is enough to make such judgement.
As far as when people peak, it's all too, I hesitate to say the cliche genetic, but nonetheless true. You have your late and early bloomers and it's more an issue of genetic makeup than actual sport.
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From the pics posted, Bob makes a good case for Nasser in the front, I think he's right.
The back, as said, isn't close, Nasser loses - which I believe Bob agrees, but overall it should go to Francois. This disparity is enough to make such judgement.
As far as when people peak, it's all too, I hesitate to say the cliche genetic, but nonetheless true. You have your late and early bloomers and it's more an issue of genetic makeup than actual sport.
One bodypart (back) overcomes the rest of the body where Francois lags well behind Nasser? I dont think Francois himself would even claim he was better than Nasser.
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One bodypart (back) overcomes the rest of the body where Francois lags well behind Nasser? I dont think Francois himself would even claim he was better than Nasser.
true nasser was better, to argue otherwise is pure bisexual.
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One bodypart (back) overcomes the rest of the body where Francois lags well behind Nasser? I dont think Francois himself would even claim he was better than Nasser.
I'm commenting just on that show.
-Where Nasser has him beat, it's not lagging well behind for Francois. Some here will probably disagree with us and say he's better
-Where Francois has him beat, it is lagging well behind for Nasser: waist up from the back, Francois is a sharp as a roadmap compared to Nasser. You'll find no one here disagreeing with this.
That's why I'd give him the overall
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One bodypart (back) overcomes the rest of the body where Francois lags well behind Nasser? I dont think Francois himself would even claim he was better than Nasser.
A. You’re still going on about Nasser.
B. Francois competed sick. His body was not absorbing nutrients properly.. so, he hung with Nasser in a compromised state. If he was healthy and able to continue on.. he’d probably own a few sandow statues. We’ll never know.
Comparing a healthy Nasser to a very sick Francois makes you look like an asshole.. especially in a white man genetic thread :)
Still.. Nasser can't touch this -
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
Spectacular...
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A. You’re still going on about Nasser.
And rightfully so ;)
B. Francois competed sick.
BS - he retired due to sickness.
Still.. Nasser Francois can't touch this -
Great Arab Genetics...Spectacular...
Fixed :D
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Arab genetics, that's funny ;D
Nasser was great though I'll say that, but after team nasser I can't stand him anymore :-\
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This why i think Nasser is a ball-biter.
Muscle quality.
To put it in "beef" terms for the homos....Nasser was 85% lean beef while Francois was 93%. Just a better quality to the muscle.
It's true that Nasser was HUGE and got cut, but he lacked that "pop" to his muscles. He's like Cutler used to be...just a really big guy but nothing happens when he hits a shot, they just move their body from one position to the next with no visible change.
Contrast that to a Ronnie who fucking EXPLODES when he hits a shot....Quality and detail.
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/1jvqpw.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
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Wasn't Mikd responsible for the discovery of Brandon Curry? I knew it was some young black bodybuilder.
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This why i think Nasser is a ball-biter.
Muscle quality.
To put it in "beef" terms for the homos....Nasser was 85% lean beef while Francois was 93%. Just a better quality to the muscle.
It's true that Nasser was HUGE and got cut, but he lacked that "pop" to his muscles. He's like Cutler used to be...just a really big guy but nothing happens when he hits a shot, they just move their body from one position to the next with no visible change.
Contrast that to a Ronnie who fucking EXPLODES when he hits a shot....Quality and detail.
Yup Francois' muscles are "popping" here while nothing is happening with Nasser's lol - desperation = making claims that make no sense. Another common one is "so and so look worse in these pictures but in real life he looks better, pictures put Nasser at an advantage and his competitors at a disadvantage" lol
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37099&Itemid=266)
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Just got off the phone with Nasser, during the convo I asked him what he thought of Francois and his potential and he honestly said he felt that both Tom Prince and Dennis Newman had better physiques and more potential to go further than Francois had they not gotten ill. He doesn't agree with the Francois hype either, but praised Tom Prince and Dennis Newman in comparison. He did acknowledge that Francois would give a better image as a bodybuilder than the other two, since he was considered a "good boy," devout Christian, no criminal record, not involved in rec drugs, etc. Newman also had the advantage of being more facially attractive while Tom Prince had a great physique but was not as facially attractive.
He also said his parents and Sherief are meeting for a third time soon in Egypt and said they find Sherief very friendly and intelligent.
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Although this Nasser fetishism creeps me out I have to admit that he does look better than Francois in all of those shots except for the rear ones. That being said, the shot of Nasser's back all deteriorated indicates how much artificial stuff he had in there in the first place. No other bodybuilder I can think of deteriorated that badly during his competitive career. It's astounding really.
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Although this Nasser fetishism creeps me out I have to admit that he does look better than Francois in all of those shots except for the rear ones. That being said, the shot of Nasser's back all deteriorated indicates how much artificial stuff he had in there in the first place. No other bodybuilder I can think of deteriorated that badly during his competitive career. It's astounding really.
"Artificial stuff" in his back?! Are you serious? What kind of "artificial stuff" was in there? ???
The picture was taken shortly after a near-death experience in which Nasser lost lots of size and messed up the diet, was in the hospital for quite a while in the weeks coming up to the show but he still honoured his commitment to do the show even though he knew he was off, unlike some who quit or make up stories about getting attacked by ninjas ;)
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"Artificial stuff" in his back?! Are you serious? What kind of "artificial stuff" was in there? ???
The picture was taken shortly after a near-death experience in which Nasser lost lots of size and messed up the diet, was in the hospital for quite a while in the weeks coming up to the show but he still honoured his commitment to do the show even though he knew he was off, unlike some who quit or make up stories about getting attacked by ninjas ;)
Nasser used a lot of synthol in his delts, arms, and shoulders. He was hospitalized when the injection sites became infected.
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well did it have anything to do with the bodybuilding lifestyle and the "supplements"
or was it just a freak thing??
this guys owns jay cutler genetically, yates as well
Agree especially yates
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Never understood the Francois hype. Wasn't his highest Mr. O placing ever a 7th place, once? I mean yeah he was good overall but to compare him to consistent top 5 Mr. Olympia placers?
He was also overrated by judges at times like the 94 NOC, what a joke decision that was.
for the record he looks better than huge delt no tricep Nasser too
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My friend was Mike's roomate back in college.
There were stories of 12000 calorie per day junk feasts
donuts, poptarts, u name it, mike ate it apparently he had terrible gas also....
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/1jvqpw.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=326230.0;attach=365472;image)
hahahahaha wtf? is that an amateur in the first pic?
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Yup Francois' muscles are "popping" here while nothing is happening with Nasser's lol - desperation = making claims that make no sense. Another common one is "so and so look worse in these pictures but in real life he looks better, pictures put Nasser at an advantage and his competitors at a disadvantage" lol
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37099&Itemid=266)
It's my opinion...calm down there,you are melting all over the place.
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Yup Francois' muscles are "popping" here while nothing is happening with Nasser's lol - desperation = making claims that make no sense. Another common one is "so and so look worse in these pictures but in real life he looks better, pictures put Nasser at an advantage and his competitors at a disadvantage" lol
(http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=18691&id=37099&Itemid=266)
damm nasser looks sic in that pic, that and mm are his best poses imo, I didnt really like his A&T.