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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on April 15, 2010, 04:26:38 PM
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Score one for the paranoid anti-religious extremists. At least for now.
Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
April 15, 2010 - 4:49 PM | by: Mike Levine
The National Day of Prayer, honored in the United States for more than a half-century, is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Wisconsin has ruled.
In a 66-page opinion issued Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb said the holiday violates the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment, which creates a separation of church and state.
"I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray," Crabb said in her opinion. "That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination."
The opinion comes in a case filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based group of self-described "atheists" and "agnostics."
Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.
"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.
The Justice Department would not say whether it expects to appeal Crabb's ruling.
"We are reviewing the court's decision," a Justice Department spokesman said.
Within hours of the ruling, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee urged the Justice Department to "immediately" file an appeal.
"The decision undermines the values of religious freedom that America was founded upon," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., said in a statement. "What’s next? Declaring the federal holiday for Christmas unconstitutional?"
Crabb said the ruling would not have any effect until any appeals are exhausted.
She insisted her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer.
"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."
The National Day of Prayer was first established by Congress in 1952, with a more specific date for the holiday set in 1988. It is now observed on the first Thursday in May.
Smith said he can "assure" Americans that "Congress will do everything in its power to protect the National Day of Prayer."
On the holiday last year, President Obama issued a statement saying Americans have always "come together in moments of great challenge and uncertainty to humble themselves in prayer."
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/
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I think shit like this reflects bad on us atheists. National Day of Prayer? So fucking what. Nobody is being forced to pray or listen to a prayer...hell, I don't even know what day it is.
Good thing our courts are tied up dealing with tough issues like this... ::)
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I think shit like this reflects bad on us atheists. National Day of Prayer? So fucking what. Nobody is being forced to pray or listen to a prayer...hell, I don't even know what day it is.
Good thing our courts are tied up dealing with tough issues like this... ::)
Word. There are times when government crosses the line. This certainly isn't one of them. Really a waste of time and resources.
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Score one for the paranoid anti-religious extremists. At least for now.
Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
April 15, 2010 - 4:49 PM | by: Mike Levine
The National Day of Prayer, honored in the United States for more than a half-century, is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Wisconsin has ruled.
In a 66-page opinion issued Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb said the holiday violates the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment, which creates a separation of church and state.
"I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray," Crabb said in her opinion. "That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination."
The opinion comes in a case filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based group of self-described "atheists" and "agnostics."
Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.
"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.
The Justice Department would not say whether it expects to appeal Crabb's ruling.
"We are reviewing the court's decision," a Justice Department spokesman said.
Within hours of the ruling, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee urged the Justice Department to "immediately" file an appeal.
"The decision undermines the values of religious freedom that America was founded upon," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., said in a statement. "What’s next? Declaring the federal holiday for Christmas unconstitutional?"
Crabb said the ruling would not have any effect until any appeals are exhausted.
She insisted her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer.
"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."
The National Day of Prayer was first established by Congress in 1952, with a more specific date for the holiday set in 1988. It is now observed on the first Thursday in May.
Smith said he can "assure" Americans that "Congress will do everything in its power to protect the National Day of Prayer."
On the holiday last year, President Obama issued a statement saying Americans have always "come together in moments of great challenge and uncertainty to humble themselves in prayer."
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/
the judged said her opinion was based on case law (as one would hope) and went out of her way to say "The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute,"
the only one who is paranoid is you
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LOL. lol. This thread is a great case study. A smart, rational atheist. And a paranoid anti-religious extremist. lol.
This was like a Pavlov's Dog experiment. :D
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the judged said her opinion was based on case law (as one would hope) and went out of her way to say "The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute,"
the only one who is paranoid is you
Why is NOTHING else in america based upon CASE LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION?
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Why is NOTHING else in america based upon CASE LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION?
I can think of a few things
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LOL. lol. This thread is a great case study. A smart, rational atheist. And a paranoid anti-religious extremist. lol.
This was like a Pavlov's Dog experiment. :D
thanks
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Since when was prayer constitutional in the first place?
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Lurker is right. We should round up all the people who believe in God in this country and have them shot.
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Since when was prayer constitutional in the first place?
??? The last part of the article might give you a hint:
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
Then there are the chaplains in the U.S. Senate who open sessions with prayer, the military chaplains paid by your tax dollars, etc., etc.
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??? The last part of the article might give you a hint:
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
Then there are the chaplains in the U.S. Senate who open sessions with prayer, the military chaplains paid by your tax dollars, etc., etc.
I've actually met and heard Senate Chaplain, RADM (Ret.) Barry C. Black preach. The man can deliver the Word.
My wife has an autographed copy of his book, From the Hood to the Hill
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I've actually met and heard Senate Chaplain, RADM (Ret.) Barry C. Black preach. The man can deliver the Word.
My wife has an autographed copy of his book, From the Hood to the Hill
I've heard him speak too. He's terrific.
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??? The last part of the article might give you a hint:
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
Then there are the chaplains in the U.S. Senate who open sessions with prayer, the military chaplains paid by your tax dollars, etc., etc.
What part of the word "asked" in that paragraph confused you? In no way was it mandatory.
Here's a bigger hint. A secular nation having a National Prayer Day is pinnacle of irony.
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What part of the word "asked" in that paragraph confused you? In no way was it mandatory.
Here's a bigger hint. A secular nation having a National Prayer Day is pinnacle of irony.
You're apparently confused by the entire subject. The National Day of Prayer isn't "mandatory."
You're question was "Since when was prayer constitutional in the first place?" The answer, which I tried to give you, is found in a number of areas, including the fact prayer was part of the Contintental Congress in 1775 (before the Constitution was adopted) and a call for national prayer by the president was done by Lincoln (after the Constitution was adopted).
Also, if prayer was "unconstitutional," we wouldn't have taxpayer funded chaplains giving prayer to open Congressional sessions.
Nothing ironic about prayer, because we're not a secular nation. Prayer and religion are us much a part of American history and society as anything.
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Of course it isn't mandatory. I already said that. Neither prayer nor National Prayer Day.
It isn't constitutional either. Unless you can show me where it specifically established.
And yes, we are a secular nation. You can tell yourself whatever you need to believe to overcome that fact if you wish, but it doesn't change it.
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Of course it isn't mandatory. I already said that. Neither prayer nor National Prayer Day.
It isn't constitutional either. Unless you can show me where it specifically established.
And yes, we are a secular nation. You can tell yourself whatever you need to believe to overcome that fact if you wish, but it doesn't change it.
What?? What in the world are you talking about? You said "What part of the word "asked" in that paragraph confused you? In no way was it mandatory." You're the one who brought up the word mandatory.
I just gave you three examples. The last one (prayer by taxpayer funded chaplains to open Congressional sessions) has already been challeged and deemed constitutional.
Here are some references.
http://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/history.html
And here:
"In light of the unambiguous and unbroken history of more than 200 years, there can be no doubt that the practice of opening legislative sessions with prayer has become part of the fabric of our society. To invoke Divine guidance on a public body entrusted with making the laws is not, in these circumstances, an "establishment" of religion or a step toward establishment; it is simply a tolerable acknowledgment of beliefs widely held among the people of this country."
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/marsh.html
I could give you numberous examples about the inherently religious nature of our history and society, but I doubt it would do much good. :)
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What?? What in the world are you talking about? You said "What part of the word "asked" in that paragraph confused you? In no way was it mandatory." You're the one who brought up the word mandatory.
I sure did.
Then you came along right behind me and agreed with me.
The National Day of Prayer isn't "mandatory."
And now you are attempting to argue the exact same answer I gave, that you agreed with? Well..... okayyyyyyyy.
::)
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I sure did.
Then you came along right behind me and agreed with me.
And now you are attempting to argue the exact same answer I gave, that you agreed with? Well..... okayyyyyyyy.
::)
You're tripping all over yourself. :)
But I assume you're abandoning this:
It isn't constitutional either. Unless you can show me where it specifically established.
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How can something be unconstitutional when it was never constitutional in the first place?
Are you saying it is MANDATORY to have a chaplain open Congressional sessions? What if they didn't? What about congress members of other faith?
????
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How can something be unconstitutional when it was never constitutional in the first place?
Are you saying it is MANDATORY to have a chaplain open Congressional sessions? What if they didn't? What about congress members of other faith?
????
They sit by and respect the traditions of this country.
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They sit by and respect the traditions of this country.
But it is not mandatory. Period.
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How can something be unconstitutional when it was never constitutional in the first place?
Are you saying it is MANDATORY to have a chaplain open Congressional sessions? What if they didn't? What about congress members of other faith?
????
Prayer is "constitutional," meaning you can pray whenever you want (that's part of the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment). Prayer by public officials is constitutional, meaning they can do so without violating the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
I didn't say chaplains and prayer to open Congressional sessions are mandatory. I mentioned those as examples to help you undertand that "prayer is Constututional" (which was your question).
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But it is not mandatory. Period.
No one claimed it was....PERIOD!!
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No one claimed it was....PERIOD!!
Which is exactly the point I made. Oh.... several posts back.
Try to keep up.
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No one claimed it was....PERIOD!!
LOL. Right. This is too funny. He brought up the word mandatory.
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Did I?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=327645.msg4668205#msg4668205
Oh yeah... I did.
The fact that you agreed with me and still attempt to argue the exact same stance makes me wonder if you took your meds today.
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National Day of Prayer Decision Still Unpopular
United States District Court Judge Barbara Crabb’s ruling declaring the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional is still unpopular on Capitol Hill. A bipartisan group roughly 30 members strong took to the microphones Wednesday to denounce last week’s decision and urge President Barack Obama to take the necessary steps to appeal the ruling.
Despite Judge Crabb’s determination that the day “serves no purpose but to encourage a religious exercise, making it difficult for a reasonable observer to see the statute as anything other than a religious endorsement,” members viewed this as a specious claim thanks to the wording of the law.
The legislative language, according to the Co-Chair of the Congressional Prayer Caucus Rep. Mike McIntyre (D-NC), does not require a religious exercise, it merely suggests it. Reading from the original declaration Rep. McIntyre says there is no demand for prayer on a day established by the President, “on which the people of the United States may m-a-y may (sic) turn to God in prayer and meditation.” The m-word, McIntyre thinks, “clears it up.”
Over the course of the hour-long press conference, members voiced their support for the National Day of Prayer, pointing to the long history of prayer in the lives of the founding fathers and mentions of a “Supreme Being” or “Creator” in the Bill of Rights and Constitution as keystones in the nation’s identity.
On the legislative front, Congressional Prayer Caucus Member Rep. Todd Tihart (R-KS) plans to introduce a resolution calling for an appeal to Judge Crabb’s ruling. He expects it to be as popular with members as the National Day of Prayer decision is unpopular.
Members say that the ruling will reach the Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, and if the ruling is not overturned there, they will push for the case to be heard at the United States Supreme Court.
http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/21/national-day-of-prayer-decision-still-unpopular/
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What a fucking waste of time. Pray on your own time, not on tax payer time inside a Government building. Not like it serves any purpose anyways.
Its beyond me why Religious people want the government to sign off on prayers.
What in the blue hell is the point of "prayer" anyways?
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Then don't.
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Then don't.
Why do we need the Government to tell us that they are setting aside a day for it then?
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Why do we need the Government to tell us that they are setting aside a day for it then?
Our governmental leaders are taking part in a time honored tradition. Something done and/or recognized by every president in our history. Prayer and faith is so important that every legitimate presidential candidate talks about their faith, including our current president who made it a central part of his campaign.
If you or anyone doesn't like it, don't listen. It's not that complicated. If you don't want to pray, don't.
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Our governmental leaders are taking part in a time honored tradition. Something done and/or recognized by every president in our history. Prayer and faith is so important that every legitimate presidential candidate talks about their faith, including our current president who made it a central part of his campaign.
If you or anyone doesn't like it, don't listen. It's not that complicated. If you don't want to pray, don't.
Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Andrew Jackson are 3 of a few more Presidents who OBJECTED to "National Prayer" of any kind.
"I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government." --Andrew Jackson- letter to the Synod of the Reformed Church of North America, 12 June 1832, explaining his refusal of their request that he proclaim a "day of fasting, humiliation, and prayer."
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Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Andrew Jackson are 3 of a few more Presidents who OBJECTED to "National Prayer" of any kind.
"I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government." --Andrew Jackson- letter to the Synod of the Reformed Church of North America, 12 June 1832, explaining his refusal of their request that he proclaim a "day of fasting, humiliation, and prayer."
So what.
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So what.
You are claiming that every President or candidate supported or supports National Prayer Day and that is simply not true.
Furthermore "National Prayer Day" was only enacted in 1952 and then later amended in 1988 to be the first Thursday of May.
I personally find this law abhorrent and an affront to the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
We do not need the government putting a rubber stamp on any religious matter whatsoever.
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;)
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Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Andrew Jackson are 3 of a few more Presidents who OBJECTED to "National Prayer" of any kind.
"I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government." --Andrew Jackson- letter to the Synod of the Reformed Church of North America, 12 June 1832, explaining his refusal of their request that he proclaim a "day of fasting, humiliation, and prayer."
:)
In 1774, while serving in the Virginia Assembly, Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a Day of Fasting and Prayer. [2]
In 1779, as Governor of Virginia, Jefferson decreed a day of “Public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.” [3]
As President, Jefferson signed bills that appropriated financial support for chaplains in Congress and the armed services.
On March 4, 1805, President Jefferson offered “A National Prayer for Peace,” which petitioned:
“Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners.
Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues.
Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth.
In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.”
http://www.contenderministries.org/articles/separationmyth.php
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:)
In 1774, while serving in the Virginia Assembly, Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a Day of Fasting and Prayer. [2]
In 1779, as Governor of Virginia, Jefferson decreed a day of “Public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.” [3]
As President, Jefferson signed bills that appropriated financial support for chaplains in Congress and the armed services.
On March 4, 1805, President Jefferson offered “A National Prayer for Peace,” which petitioned:
“Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners.
Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues.
Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth.
In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.”
http://www.contenderministries.org/articles/separationmyth.php
Please delete or amend your above post to reflect the FACTS.
The problem with the above is that it isn't true. March 4, 1805 was the date of Jefferson's Second Inaugural Address and there is no such prayer included in it. This "prayer" shows up on a number of religious web sites on line, and is either attributed to Thomas Jefferson, with no other information or as above "Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1805". Nowhere is there a complete valid cite given. You can find his Second Inaugural Address at:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefAddr.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=7&division=div1
Thomas Jefferson, Second Inaugural Address, Monday, March 4, 1805
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You are claiming that every President or candidate supported or supports National Prayer Day and that is simply not true.
Furthermore "National Prayer Day" was only enacted in 1952 and then later amended in 1988 to be the first Thursday of May.
I personally find this law abhorrent and an affront to the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
We do not need the government putting a rubber stamp on any religious matter whatsoever.
If you find prayer abhorrent you need to build a bridge and get over it. Some facts:
1) The President of the United States has called for a National Day of Prayer every year since 1975.
2) There have been 135 national calls to prayer, humiliation, fasting and thanksgiving by the President of the United States (1789-2009).
3) There have been 57 Presidential Proclamations for a “National Day of Prayer” (1952-2009).
4) Gerald Ford (1976) and George H. Bush (1989-91) are the only U.S. Presidents to sign two National Day of Prayer Proclamations in the same year.
5) Every President since 1952 has signed a National Day of Prayer proclamation.
6) 33 of the 44 U.S. Presidents have signed proclamations for National Prayer. Four of the Presidents who did not sign a proclamation died while serving in office.
http://nationaldayofprayer.org/about/history/
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One of FDR's prayers:
My Fellow Americans:
Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.
And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:
Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.
Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.
They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.
They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest -- until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.
For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and goodwill among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.
Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.
And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas, whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.
Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.
Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces.
And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.
And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keeness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.
With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.
Thy will be done, Almighty God.
Amen.
Franklin D. Roosevelt - June 6, 1944
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/fdr-prayer.htm
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http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-11-29/news/0911280034_1_thanksgiving-day-national-day-thanksgiving-history/2
As the nation's third president, serving from 1801 to 1809, Jefferson altered his attitude toward issuing such proclamations.
In 1808, the Rev. Samuel Miller had written a letter to Jefferson suggesting a national day of fasting and prayer.
Jefferson's response was crafted by the Constitution. "I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. ... Certainly no power to prescribe any religious exercise, or to assume authority in religious discipline, has been delegated to the general government," he wrote to Miller.
"But it is only proposed that I should recommend, not prescribe a day of fasting and prayer. That is, that I should indirectly assume to the United States an authority over religious exercises, which the Constitution has directly precluded them from ... civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents," Jefferson concluded.
"In other words," Fader said, "a separation of church and state."
In 1802, in response to a letter from the Danbury (Conn.) Baptist Association regarding his election as president, Jefferson used the phrase "a wall of separation between church and state."
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Prayers by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II:
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Faith-Tools/Meditation/2005/01/Prayers-Of-The-Presidents.aspx
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If you find prayer abhorrent you need to build a bridge and get over it. Some facts:
1) The President of the United States has called for a National Day of Prayer every year since 1975.
2) There have been 135 national calls to prayer, humiliation, fasting and thanksgiving by the President of the United States (1789-2009).
3) There have been 57 Presidential Proclamations for a “National Day of Prayer” (1952-2009).
4) Gerald Ford (1976) and George H. Bush (1989-91) are the only U.S. Presidents to sign two National Day of Prayer Proclamations in the same year.
5) Every President since 1952 has signed a National Day of Prayer proclamation.
6) 33 of the 44 U.S. Presidents have signed proclamations for National Prayer. Four of the Presidents who did not sign a proclamation died while serving in office.
http://nationaldayofprayer.org/about/history/
ROFLMAO
What is the point of number 6? To invoke supernatural Superstition? Also number 3 states that there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" 1952-2009, yet number 6 claims 33 of 44 Presidents signed a Proclamation for "National Prayer Day". That does not make any sense whatsoever given the time frame. I have to only conclude that whatever site this is from, ITS BULLSHIT. It does not add up.
Get this religious garbage out of here and keep it out of the Government.
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Also, can you please delete the 1805 reference to Jefferson from your Religious Bunk site. Its factually incorrect and is dishonest to promote otherwise.
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And there are the states (probably most if not all of them), that do the same thing, including the most liberal state in the country:
GOVERNOR JOINS COMMUNITY LEADERS AT HAWAI`I PRAYER BREAKFAST
April 11 - For the fifth consecutive year, Governor Lingle and members of the cabinet joined Hawai'i's mayors, government officials, and leaders from the business, military, non-profit and faith-based communities at the Hawai`i Prayer Breakfast. "Prayer is important because it provides leaders with strength, courage and guidance throughout their work," Governor Lingle said. The Hawai‘i Prayer Breakfast is modeled after the National Prayer Breakfast, which was initiated in 1953 by President Eisenhower.
http://hawaii.gov/gov/news/events/2007/4.10.07-PrayerBreakfast-fullstory
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ROFLMAO
What is the point of number 6? To invoke supernatural Superstition? Also number 3 states that there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" 1952-2009, yet number 6 claims 33 of 44 Presidents signed a Proclamation for "National Prayer Day". That does not make any sense whatsoever given the time frame. I have to only conclude that whatever site this is from, ITS BULLSHIT. It does not add up.
Get this religious garbage out of here and keep it out of the Government.
LOL. What?? What that means is that a president signed more than one proclamation. lol . . . .
The religious garbage is here to stay. Deal with it. :) Or go file lawsuits like other paranoid anti-religious extremists.
Actually, you should read Skip's comments. He makes a lot of sense.
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Also, can you please delete the 1805 reference to Jefferson from your Religious Bunk site. Its factually incorrect and is dishonest to promote otherwise.
No. If you disagree then post your comments, sources, etc.
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LOL. What?? What that means is that a president signed more than one proclamation. lol . . . .
The religious garbage is here to stay. Deal with it. :) Or go file lawsuits like other paranoid anti-religious extremists.
Actually, you should read Skip's comments. He makes a lot of sense.
Again you are not following along.
Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".
It is also claiming
That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009
If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.
You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.
This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.
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No. If you disagree then post your comments, sources, etc.
Its not a matter of disagreeing. You are being FACTUALLY INCORRECT and promoting a falsehood.
From the University of Virginia.
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefAddr.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=7&division=div1
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OMFFGGG
I just realized that Beach Bum is actually citing sites that are advocating and discussing "The End Times Prophecy".
No wonder why they are so factually incorrect.
Beach Bum, please cite credible sources.
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Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
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Again you are not following along.
Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".
It is also claiming
That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009
If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.
You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.
This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.
NOT if certain presidents signed MULTIPLE proclamations.
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Please delete or amend your above post to reflect the FACTS.
The problem with the above is that it isn't true. March 4, 1805 was the date of Jefferson's Second Inaugural Address and there is no such prayer included in it. This "prayer" shows up on a number of religious web sites on line, and is either attributed to Thomas Jefferson, with no other information or as above "Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1805". Nowhere is there a complete valid cite given. You can find his Second Inaugural Address at:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefAddr.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=7&division=div1
Thomas Jefferson, Second Inaugural Address, Monday, March 4, 1805
Dang Adonis, go easy on the large font and colors already. Does it mean you are frustrated, angry and shouting?
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NOT if certain presidents signed MULTIPLE proclamations.
I tried to explain that to him.
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OMFFGGG
I just realized that Beach Bum is actually citing sites that are advocating and discussing "The End Times Prophecy".
No wonder why they are so factually incorrect.
Beach Bum, please cite credible sources.
::)
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I tried to explain that to him.
Again thats not the issue at all.
Please reread:
Again you are not following along.
Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".
It is also claiming
That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009
If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.
You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.
This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.
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I dont understand why any Christian would want this.You need the filthy government to have a day to tell you to pray.Are you kidding me?If the government told me to pray that day,Id make it a point not to pray that day.I know there are laws or rules or proclamations that must or should be followed but I wouldnt follow a day the stupid innept wicked government tells me to pray on.
Just like steroids,during the stupid cogressional hearings on steroids I made sure to up my doseage in honor of little idiots like Steven Lynch,Henry Waxman and the rest of those morons.Just as I will add three times as much salt to my food now and keep my house at 73 in the winter.
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I dont understand why any Christian would want this.You need the filthy government to have a day to tell you to pray.Are you kidding me?If the government told me to pray that day,Id make it a point not to pray that day.I know there are laws or rules or proclamations that must or should be followed but I wouldnt follow a day the stupid innept wicked government tells me to pray on.
Just like steroids,during the stupid cogressional hearings on steroids I made sure to up my doseage in honor of little idiots like Steven Lynch,Henry Waxman and the rest of those morons.Just as I will add three times as much salt to my food now and keep my house at 73 in the winter.
I`m with you on this one Billy. Its beyond me why anyone would want the Government to put a rubber stamp on Religion or direct them to Religious practice on a designated day.
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Again thats not the issue at all.
Please reread:
Again you are not following along.
Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".
It is also claiming
That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009
If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.
You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.
This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.
Again, what you fail to understand and what both McWay and I both tried to explain, is that presidents likely issued multiple proclamations during their presidency. These presidents had terms from between 2 and 8 years.
Also, you should watch the clips Colossus posted (I watched the first one). Barton is an outstanding historian. He can help you get a better understanding of history and the role prayer and religion played in the development of the country.
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Score one for the paranoid anti-religious extremists. At least for now.
Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
April 15, 2010 - 4:49 PM | by: Mike Levine
The National Day of Prayer, honored in the United States for more than a half-century, is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Wisconsin has ruled.
In a 66-page opinion issued Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb said the holiday violates the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment, which creates a separation of church and state.
"I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray," Crabb said in her opinion. "That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination."
The opinion comes in a case filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based group of self-described "atheists" and "agnostics."
Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.
"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.
The Justice Department would not say whether it expects to appeal Crabb's ruling.
"We are reviewing the court's decision," a Justice Department spokesman said.
Within hours of the ruling, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee urged the Justice Department to "immediately" file an appeal.
"The decision undermines the values of religious freedom that America was founded upon," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., said in a statement. "What’s next? Declaring the federal holiday for Christmas unconstitutional?"
Crabb said the ruling would not have any effect until any appeals are exhausted.
She insisted her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer.
"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."
The National Day of Prayer was first established by Congress in 1952, with a more specific date for the holiday set in 1988. It is now observed on the first Thursday in May.
Smith said he can "assure" Americans that "Congress will do everything in its power to protect the National Day of Prayer."
On the holiday last year, President Obama issued a statement saying Americans have always "come together in moments of great challenge and uncertainty to humble themselves in prayer."
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/
Who really gives a shit is the bigger question...
What a monumental ruling... ::)
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Who really gives a shit is the bigger question...
What a monumental ruling... ::)
A bipartisan majority in Congress and milliions of Americans.
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A bipartisan majority in Congress and milliions of Americans.
Sadly, you're absolutely right...
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Again, what you fail to understand and what both McWay and I both tried to explain, is that presidents likely issued multiple proclamations during their presidency. These presidents had terms from between 2 and 8 years.
Also, you should watch the clips Colossus posted (I watched the first one). Barton is an outstanding historian. He can help you get a better understanding of history and the role prayer and religion played in the development of the country.
Oh brother I don`t know what more I can do to explain. I will post this one more time. PAY attention-
Please reread:
Again you are not following along.
Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".
It is also claiming
That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009
If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.
You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.
This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Presidential terms which would be an ABSOLUTE minimum of 133 years (if each only served one term). Of course its more years than 133 given multiple terms some were elected to. But lets keep it simple.
Your article claims that at least 133 years worth of Proclamations were made (claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".)
and
It is also claiming only 57 years worth of 7 National Prayer Day Proclamations from 1952-2009.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? The math does not add up. Your article is in contradiction with itself. Your sources are totally bunk and dubious and Barton is not regarded by any credible institution as being remotely esteemed or credible.
Do you wish for me to post why he is considered a discredited loon who is factually incorrect and distorts history and at times makes things up?
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You should also be terribly ashamed by perpetuating myths of Jefferson and the 1805 Inaugural Address.
You are being factually incorrect and intellectually dishonest. Please stop trying to rewrite history.
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Barton's "work" has received no academic acceptance.
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??? ???
Loony, Loony Loony! Credible eh?
http://www.dallaspeacecenter.org/node/4248
David Barton, Minister Who Believes Hurricane Was God’s Punishment For Gays To Guide Revision Of TX Social Studies Curriculum
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Get a Fucking Clue Beach Bum:
More on your Barton:
Barton is a self-styled “historian” who has no training in social sciences or history. In his books and teachings, he argues that separation of church and state is a myth and that America’s laws should be based solely on Biblical scriptures. His numerous claims include that the Bible forbids income and capitol gains Taxes. Barton’s views are so far right that even such groups as the Texas Baptists Committeed and the Baptist Joint Committee have been vocal critics of his interpretations history and the U.S. Constitution.
Worse, in Barton’s role as a faux historian, he acknowledges using quotes–nearly a dozen in all–that he has attributed to the nation’s founders although he frely admits he cannot provide any primary source documents proving that the quotes were ever said or could be attributed to those he claims. Clearly, primary sources are a foundation of legitimate historicl pursuits, and Barton clearly isn’t a fan of any primary source aside from the Bible (and, we presume, his own creative imagination).
Barton’s controversial reputation stretches back more than a decade. In 1991, he spoke at an event hosted by groups tied to white supremacists, but later claimed he had not known that the groups were “part of a Nazi movement.” (Casper Star Tribune, 6/20/97, 6/22/97, letter from David Barton, 7/2/93; Boston, Rob. “David Barton: Master of Myth and Misinformation,” Freedom Writer, Institute for First Amendment Studies, June 1996.)
In addition, Barton’s WallBuilders Web site suggests as a “helpful” resource the National Association of Christian Educators/Citizens for Excellence in Education, an organization that calls public schools places of “social depravity” and “spiritual slaughter.”
Barton has written that U.S. Congressman Keith Ellison, who is Muslim, has “flaunted American traditions and cultural values” by openly taking his oath of office on the Koran instead of the Bible, and he has encouraged others to seek Ellison’s conversion to Christianity.
Barton has argued that the Supreme Court’s decision that sodomy laws are unconstitutional will lead to, among other things, the legalization of public sex, prostitution, polygamy, the promotion of homosexuality in public schools and the end of abstinence-only sex education.
He characterizes the debate over evolution as a “death struggle between civilizations,” with the courts siding with “non-theistic” evolution and threatening what he sees as the biblical foundations for protecting freedom.
As for Marshall, his Ministries website includes commentary by marshall attacking Muslims, characterizing the Obama administration as “wicked” and calling on Christian parents to reject public education for their children.
He has also attacked Roman Catholic and mainstream Protestent churches. Calling for a spiritual revivial in America last year, he called traditional Protestant denominations an “institutionally fossilized, Bible-rejecting shell of Christianity.”
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Nothing pisses me off more than the spreading of Disinformation, misinformation and lies.
People like Beach Bum are easily taken in by it and then promote it. It is sickening.
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Nothing pisses me off more than the spreading of Disinformation, misinformation and lies.
lol!
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lol!
Funny, no? :)
TA: shut up.
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Sadly, you're absolutely right...
Nothing sad about that part of our history and society. It's a great thing.
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Rapture Ready Rednecks. ;D
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Rapture Ready Rednecks. ;D
looks like obama is one of the rapture ready... ;)
White House to fight to preserve National Day of Prayer
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/22/national.day.of.prayer/index.html
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looks like obama is one of the rapture ready... ;)
White House to fight to preserve National Day of Prayer
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/22/national.day.of.prayer/index.html
No, no, no!!! He's lying, remember!! But TA is cool with that. To him, it's OK to lie about being a Christian for political gain.
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I dont understand why any Christian would want this.You need the filthy government to have a day to tell you to pray.Are you kidding me?If the government told me to pray that day,Id make it a point not to pray that day.I know there are laws or rules or proclamations that must or should be followed but I wouldnt follow a day the stupid innept wicked government tells me to pray on.
Just like steroids,during the stupid cogressional hearings on steroids I made sure to up my doseage in honor of little idiots like Steven Lynch,Henry Waxman and the rest of those morons.Just as I will add three times as much salt to my food now and keep my house at 73 in the winter.
The government isn't telling you to pray, anymore than Valentine's Day is telling you to love your wife (if you haven't been doing so the other 364 days, Feb. 14 isn't going to make a difference).
A better question would be why atheists are crying like a bunch of sissies, about something they are NOT required to do, with regards to Someone they swear doesn't exist.
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LOL @ anyone using Barton as the basis of their argument. Only a complete idiot would attempt to lend credibility to that ass-swish and his statements.
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The government isn't telling you to pray, anymore than Valentine's Day is telling you to love your wife (if you haven't been doing so the other 364 days, Feb. 14 isn't going to make a difference).
A better question would be why atheists are crying like a bunch of sissies, about something they are NOT required to do, with regards to Someone they swear doesn't exist.
Why would you ever allow the government to have any say on your faith?Id make it a point NOT to pray that day out of spite simply because the filthy government recognises the day.
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Why would you ever allow the government to have any say on your faith?Id make it a point NOT to pray that day out of spite simply because the filthy government recognises the day.
It doesn't have a say on my faith. That's the point. This is a voluntary thing, nothing more or less.
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Why would you ever allow the government to have any say on your faith?Id make it a point NOT to pray that day out of spite simply because the filthy government recognises the day.
Because obviously people that pray tend to NEED to be told what to do. The government, the invisible man in the sky, the picture of virgin mary in the burned toast.... they lack free will to make decisions on their own and must receive marching orders somehow from somewhere.
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Because obviously people that pray tend to NEED to be told what to do. The government, the invisible man in the sky, the picture of virgin mary in the burned toast.... they lack free will to make decisions on their own and must receive marching orders somehow from somewhere.
In your case, it's a big-eared black man from Hawaii.
;D
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As the leader of this nation, he is telling you what to do as well. Even more than the imaginary leader you talk to.
Imagine that. "God" chose that black man to lead this country. Obama as POTUS was God's Will. Hilarious that mental midgets continue to make hypocrites out of themselves by complaining about it and questioning Gods Will.
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Because obviously people that pray tend to NEED to be told what to do. The government, the invisible man in the sky, the picture of virgin mary in the burned toast.... they lack free will to make decisions on their own and must receive marching orders somehow from somewhere.
Wrong. There is no need to be told what to do. There is a spiritual need that a believer feels they have that can not be fulfilled by anything else in this world. A religious person has used his/her FREE WILL to CHOOSE to believe in and pray to such a being. Just like you have used your FREE WILL to not believe and to make ridiculous comments about something you don't understand.
You can move along now with your misguided, misinformed "views".
I Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Free Will > God
I guess God isn't as powerful as the zealots make him out to be.
So what is the answer for all those conservatives that prayed Obama would lose the election? God wasn't listening? The other side prayed harder?
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Nothing sad about that part of our history and society. It's a great thing.
Beach, I didn't know about David Barton until I heard about him on the radio. My 10yr-old and I watched all 5 of these videos yesterday. He is quite the historian. Gives me plenty of research to do in finding biographies of all of the leaders he mentions in the videos. Great stuff.
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Beach, I didn't know about David Barton until I heard about him on the radio. My 10yr-old and I watched all 5 of these videos yesterday. He is quite the historian. Gives me plenty of research to do in finding biographies of all of the leaders he mentions in the videos. Great stuff.
I feel deeply sorry for your children to have to be exposed to a complete charlatan as Barton and all the way you telling them that these are facts and treating the programme as historically legitimate. You have no idea what damage this may do in the future to your children as Barton has been chastised many times over for spreading blatant lies, myths and disinformation. I can only hope one day you realize these gross errors and what a great affront this is to actual history. (as it really occurred)
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I feel deeply sorry for your children to have to be exposed to a complete charlatan as Barton and all the way you telling them that these are facts and treating the programme as historically legitimate. You have no idea what damage this may do in the future to your children as Barton has been chastised many times over for spreading blatant lies, myths and disinformation. I can only hope one day you realize these gross errors and what a great affront this is to actual history. (as it really occurred)
In other words, they will know more than you simply by doing some actual research. TA, if you only knew, bro. But it's where you're at right now, so it's all oblivious to you. It's my hope, too, that you would come to a better understanding of what, Beach, MCWAY, Dario, and the others are trying to share with you.
Have you been to the various sites and museums in Washington to debunk any of the items mentioned in the videos? If you have some of that information, please post it. What you've submitted so far are mere character attacks. What about the actual informed that he shares.
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Beach, I didn't know about David Barton until I heard about him on the radio. My 10yr-old and I watched all 5 of these videos yesterday. He is quite the historian. Gives me plenty of research to do in finding biographies of all of the leaders he mentions in the videos. Great stuff.
Awesome. You are raising a smart kid. Congrats.
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As the leader of this nation, he is telling you what to do as well. Even more than the imaginary leader you talk to.
Imagine that. "God" chose that black man to lead this country. Obama as POTUS was God's Will. Hilarious that mental midgets continue to make hypocrites out of themselves by complaining about it and questioning Gods Will.
Who said it was God's will? If you bothered reading a Bible, you would find that Israel often strayed from the Lord's instructions.....and suffered the consequences for that.
So, Obama's election can hardly be constructed as God's will, not that McCain (had he won would have necessarily been His will either).
But, never let that stop you from saying something silly.
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Score one for the paranoid anti-religious extremists. At least for now.
Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
April 15, 2010 - 4:49 PM | by: Mike Levine
The National Day of Prayer, honored in the United States for more than a half-century, is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Wisconsin has ruled.
In a 66-page opinion issued Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb said the holiday violates the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment, which creates a separation of church and state.
"I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray," Crabb said in her opinion. "That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination."
The opinion comes in a case filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based group of self-described "atheists" and "agnostics."
Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.
"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.
The Justice Department would not say whether it expects to appeal Crabb's ruling.
"We are reviewing the court's decision," a Justice Department spokesman said.
Within hours of the ruling, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee urged the Justice Department to "immediately" file an appeal.
"The decision undermines the values of religious freedom that America was founded upon," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., said in a statement. "What’s next? Declaring the federal holiday for Christmas unconstitutional?"
Crabb said the ruling would not have any effect until any appeals are exhausted.
She insisted her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer.
"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."
The National Day of Prayer was first established by Congress in 1952, with a more specific date for the holiday set in 1988. It is now observed on the first Thursday in May.
Smith said he can "assure" Americans that "Congress will do everything in its power to protect the National Day of Prayer."
On the holiday last year, President Obama issued a statement saying Americans have always "come together in moments of great challenge and uncertainty to humble themselves in prayer."
"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/
people are too sensitive. they should leave christians alone
-El Chapo
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Who said it was God's will? If you bothered reading a Bible, you would find that Israel often strayed from the Lord's instructions.....and suffered the consequences for that.
So, Obama's election can hardly be constructed as God's will, not that McCain (had he won would have necessarily been His will either).
But, never let that stop you from saying something silly.
Of course it is God's Will. Isn't God in charge of everything? Or is that just another line you feed your kids when things are going your way? Oh wait... I know.. I know.... Obama being POTUS is just "God testing us". Isn't that the standard line to spout when things don't go your way.
God is great! He chose Obama.