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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: SAMSON123 on May 12, 2010, 08:35:30 AM
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holy shit... until seeing this clip, I really had no idea of just how HUGE this spill is becoming.
87 miles out... a mile deep... somewhere up to a million gallons of oil per day adding to the mess... and it'll be 2 to 3 months before they can slant drill under it to stop the flow, best case scenario.
Of course everyone in charge wants to minimize the damage... nobody wants to be the messenger that says "yes, this is going to RUIN a great deal of FL, TX, LA business for the next 5 to 10 years..."
"For the first time in my environmental career, I find myself using the word HOPELESS. We cannot stop this."
Damn. I'm not about placing blame here... all of the companies are pointing fingers, and neither party did what was needed to keep the safety/cleanup technology up with the drilling technologies. But as far as the impact... damn... this could end up being the biggest natural-ish event of this generation.
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I can't believe this. It is incredible what is happening down there, and not in a good way either.
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Above all is the amazement that the media spends endless hours talking about so called celebrities, american idol, elections in England and other non issues all the while this MONSTER OF A SPILL is going to impact not only the gulf states, but at this rate will effect Mexico, Florida possibly Cuba (should it began going toward the Atlantic). Now everything from sea food industry, tourism, ecological, environmental..even birds will end up being victims. Now we watch the different businesses involved in this spill all pointing fingers at each other, Obama is talking as though someone spilled a SINGLE BARREL OF OIL in the gulf as opposed to the millions of barrels that have spilled. He is so lackadaisical about what is going on and these half assed attempts to stop the gusher seem like deliberately lame attempts. Something is amiss in this for sure
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Looks like hay may be a solution. Not sure if BP would even consider this:
Full Video at this link:
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I'm sure republicans will find a way to defend this. ;D "accidents happen" ....drill baby drill... ;D
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Crazy shit guys.
That hey trick is pretty cool. 8)
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Above all is the amazement that the media spends endless hours talking about so called celebrities, american idol, elections in England and other non issues all the while this MONSTER OF A SPILL is going to impact not only the gulf states, but at this rate will effect Mexico, Florida possibly Cuba (should it began going toward the Atlantic). Now everything from sea food industry, tourism, ecological, environmental..even birds will end up being victims. Now we watch the different businesses involved in this spill all pointing fingers at each other, Obama is talking as though someone spilled a SINGLE BARREL OF OIL in the gulf as opposed to the millions of barrels that have spilled. He is so lackadaisical about what is going on and these half assed attempts to stop the gusher seem like deliberately lame attempts. Something is amiss in this for sure
They're already concerns here(in SC) that we may very well have oil on our coastline due to both the inability to stop the well and of course because they won't be able to clean all of it up so the currents will obviously take this into the Atlantic. I honestly don't think there should be a cap for the damages that this is going to cause...BP caused it, they should pay for all of it.
Once again, a big fuck you to all of you pussies saying, "But BP can't afford to clean it up, it will bankrupt them!" Waaaaaahhhh, then maybe they should take the necessary precautions so this doesn't happen in the first place. It has been made very clear that there weren't enough safety precautions in place to even contain this much less stop the well. Another company will come in their place.
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They're already concerns here(in SC) that we may very well have oil on our coastline due to both the inability to stop the well and of course because they won't be able to clean all of it up so the currents will obviously take this into the Atlantic. I honestly don't think there should be a cap for the damages that this is going to cause...BP caused it, they should pay for all of it.
Once again, a big fuck you to all of you pussies saying, "But BP can't afford to clean it up, it will bankrupt them!" Waaaaaahhhh, then maybe they should take the necessary precautions so this doesn't happen in the first place. It has been made very clear that there weren't enough safety precautions in place to even contain this much less stop the well. Another company will come in their place.
Acoustical switch = $500 000 ....too expensive for the industry ::) . No wonder with 2 oil guys in power for 8 years what do you expect.
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Looks like hay may be a solution. Not sure if BP would even consider this:
Full Video at this link:
This hay may look like a great solution, only problem is the oill is still spilling at a horrendous rate and given the size of the spill already it would probably require all the hay in america to capture what is out there right now...let alone what is still leaking
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"Once again, a big fuck you to all of you pussies saying, "But BP can't afford to clean it up, it will bankrupt them!" Waaaaaahhhh, then maybe they should take the necessary precautions so this doesn't happen in the first place. It has been made very clear that there weren't enough safety precautions in place to even contain this much less stop the well. Another company will come in their place. "
HAHAHAHA
i don't remember BP having any pity on us when gas was $4 a gallon, and they were making record 10 billion in profits.
Suddenly it's "noooo we can't let them fail!" as they sit up there in front of Congress and shrug about the millions of lives they are about to affect.
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Acoustical switch = $500 000 ....too expensive for the industry ::) . No wonder with 2 oil guys in power for 8 years what do you expect.
::) ::) BP donated more to Obama than any other politicians in the past 20 years. good try though fool.
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why do you think they didn't have the $500 switch on this pump, 33?
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Dont know. But to blame Cheney and Bush is beyond stupid.
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I'm not blaming bush.
I'm blaming the company who can pocket 10 bil in profits (was it one year, or one quarter? I think it was a record quarter)...
but doesn't have the concern for public safety to spend $500 on the switch. Yes, Bush did loosen that law which made it so they didn't legally have to possess the switch - pretty shady too.
But Obama had a year and a half to reverse that law. So he'd be to blame as well, if you want to blame presidents.
All of this shit where presidents just pass blame to the last guy - it's some bullshit. You get into office... and if you have ONE MINUTE to hit the golf course, then you have no room to blame the last guy for shit you fail to change.
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Dont know. But to blame Cheney and Bush is beyond stupid.
to say they shouldn't be blamed and possibly for a good portion of the problem is dumber.
Then, between January and March of 2001, incoming Vice President Dick Cheney conducted secret meetings with over 100 oil industry officials allowing them to draft a wish list of industry demands to be implemented by the oil friendly administration. Cheney also used that time to re-staff the Minerals Management Service with oil industry toadies including a cabal of his Wyoming carbon cronies. In 2003, newly reconstituted Minerals Management Service genuflected to the oil cartel by recommending the removal of the proposed requirement for acoustic switches. The Minerals Management Service's 2003 study concluded that "acoustic systems are not recommended because they tend to be very costly."
The acoustic trigger costs about $500,000. Estimated costs of the oil spill to Gulf Coast residents are now upward of $14 billion to gulf state communities. Bush's 2005 energy bill officially dropped the requirement for the acoustic switch off devices explaining that the industry's existing practices are "failsafe."
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ah, the switch was $500k.
Still, if you're making ten billion dollars, put the damn switch in. Bush did a shitty thing by removing them. However, surely Obama learned of this at some point, and didn't move to make the companies place the switch there. So he's at fault too.
Just like morons who blame clinton for 911. Sorry. If Dubya had 9 months to play golf and make stem cells his priority, he had time to overhaul intelligence agencies and actually read aug 5 memoes delivered to him by hand.
Buck stops here. Period. President is responsible.
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So a business is going to not incur a cost of $500,000 upfront in return for accepting a potentially unlimited liability? GMAFB.
Accidents happen. Its life. Lets clean the mess up, figure out what went wrong, and make new procdures for drilling, and get going on finding more oil asap.
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actually their liability by law was 75 million.
How many rigs does BP have?
If they have more than 150 rigs, then it was cost prohibitive.
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Again - do the math - would you not spend $500k in return for a potential $75 million liability?
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So a business is going to not incur a cost of $500,000 upfront in return for accepting a potentially unlimited liability? GMAFB.
Accidents happen. Its life. Lets clean the mess up, figure out what went wrong, and make new procdures for drilling, and get going on finding more oil asap.
::) Oh dear god, we're talking about Oil companies and you're going to cry me a fucking river over them spending half a million on a rig that will be pumping out billions for them ::) Sometimes you really are a fucking tool in your quest to totally blame Obama for everything. God forbid Obama doesn't get all the blame.
You're right 3333, you're always right ::)
PS. don't have a fit over being called a fucking tool, it's not that bad.
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Again - do the math - would you not spend $500k in return for a potential $75 million liability?
I can't listen to this shit. ::)
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it's 500k PER RIG.
I don't know how many rigs they have. They did the risk analysis, and obviously decided the cost of buying, fitting, installing and maintaining these pieces was greater than the $75 million they were required to pay if the SHTF.
Bush changed the law, and they embraced it. Obama didn't change it back.
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I'm not blaming Obama and have not blamed obama for this.
I'm saying that shit happens and will always happen. If they did not do what they should have done, then sue them and the owners and bankrupt them etc etc,.
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I can't listen to this shit. ::)
Hugo - how many businesses have you run in your life?
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So a business is going to not incur a cost of $500,000 upfront in return for accepting a potentially unlimited liability? GMAFB.
Accidents happen. Its life. Lets clean the mess up, figure out what went wrong, and make new procdures for drilling, and get going on finding more oil asap.
Yeah...its called doing things on teh cheap...I guess they believed this would never happen. Sad reality is many events happen over this same mentality and cheapness. There was a good reason for having these special valves and it is obvious because what is happening now, happened before. Now why would they NOT include this valve when the cost relative to all else is so little? Now that the trouble has come from their foolish behavior let BP open their wallet and start writing blank checks..
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it's 500k PER RIG.
I don't know how many rigs they have. They did the risk analysis, and obviously decided the cost of buying, fitting, installing and maintaining these pieces was greater than the $75 million they were required to pay if the SHTF.
Bush changed the law, and they embraced it. Obama didn't change it back.
Whatever it is, they gambled and lost. Sue them and take all their assets and clean up the mess.
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UPDATE...THE EXCUSES ARE GONNA COME LIKE RAINDROPS DURING A STORM...Everyone is innocent and it is the other guy, the other device, the lack of battery power and.or whatever other excuse that can be found
What went wrong at oil rig? A lot, probers find
AP
(http://l.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2010/5/11/burningrig-pd.jpg)
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100512/capt.2b0c1a192caa43b6b22f241608089362-2b0c1a192caa43b6b22f241608089362-0.jpg?x=213&y=147&xc=1&yc=1&wc=409&hc=282&q=85&sig=8Oo9AKFOxaKL3dbxKhR0GQ--)
Edward Markey AP – Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass, holds jar containing oil from the Gulf Coast oil spill during a House subcommittee …
WASHINGTON – Bad wiring and a leak in what's supposed to be a "blowout preventer." Sealing problems that may have allowed a methane eruption. Even a dead battery, of all things.
New disclosures Wednesday revealed a complex cascade of deep-sea equipment failures and procedural problems in the oil rig explosion and massive spill that is still fouling the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and threatening industries and wildlife near the coast and on shore.
The public also got its first look on Wednesday of oil gushing from the broken pipe that rests nearly a mile under water as BP PLC, the well's operator, released a video taken by a remotely controlled camera. Oil flowing from a break in the yellowish pipe becomes lighter in color as it mixes with natural gas. Over the past 21 days more than 4 million gallons of oil have been released.
A litany of worrisome events and findings that were at play on the night of the well explosion and pipe rupture was described in internal corporate documents, marked confidential but provided to a House committee by BP and by the manufacturer of the safety device. Lawmakers released them at a House hearing.
A senior BP executive, Lamar McKay, cautioned, "It's inappropriate to draw any conclusions before all the facts are known." But the documents established the firmest evidence to date of the sequence of catastrophic events that led to the explosion and worsening spill, a series of failures more reminiscent of the loss of the space shuttle Challenger than the wreck of the Exxon Valdez.
Like the 1986 Challenger disaster, the investigation into the Gulf spill may well show that complex and seemingly failproof technical systems went wrong because of overlooked problems that interacted with each other in unexpected ways. In the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster, a captain simply ran his ship onto a reef in Alaska's Prince William Sound, spilling nearly 11 million gallons of oil.
The April 20 BP rig explosion 40 miles off the Louisiana coast killed 11 people. Oil continuing to flow into Gulf waters threatens sensitive ecological marshes and wetlands and the region's fishing industry.
Congressional investigators revealed Wednesday that a key safety system, known as the blowout preventer, used in BP's oil-drilling rig in the Gulf had a hydraulic leak and a failed battery that probably prevented it from working as designed.
They said that BP documents and others also indicated conflicting pipe pressure tests should have warned those on the rig that poor pipe integrity may have been allowing explosive methane gas to leak into the well.
"Significant pressure discrepancies were observed in at least two of these tests, which were conducted just hours before the explosion," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., at a House hearing on the rig fire and oil leak, citing documents his committee had received from BP.
Asked about the tests, Steven Newman, president of Transocean, which owned the drilling rig, and Lamar McKay, president of BP America told the committee the pressure readings were worrisome.
They indicated "that there was something happening in the well bore that shouldn't be happening," said Newman. McKay said the issue "is critical in the investigation" into the cause of the accident.
The well explosion unleashed a massive oil spill that after three weeks remains uncontained.
But Waxman said important elements of what went wrong were beginning to surface.
While "we have far more questions than answers," it appears clear that there were problems with the blowout preventers before the accident and confusion almost right up to the time of the explosion over the success of a process in which cement is injected into the well to temporarily close it in anticipation of future production.
In other developments Wednesday:
• The White House asked Congress to raise the limits on BP's liability to cover damage from the spill beyond the $75 million cap now in law. It also wants oil companies to pay more into a federal oil spill cleanup fund.
BP president Lamar McKay said the company will pay any legitimate claim of damages beyond cleanup costs despite the federal cap.
• On the Gulf Coast, a new containment box — a cylinder called a "top hat" — was placed on the sea floor near the well leak. Engineers hope to work out ways to avoid the problem that scuttled an earlier effort with a much bigger box before they move the cylinder over the end of the 5,000-foot-long pipe from the well.
• The Minerals Management Service told a government panel of investigators in Kenner, La., that inspections of deepwater drilling rigs has turned up only "a couple of minor issues."
The House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing into the spill was the third this week at which executives of BP and two other companies were questioned by lawmakers.
The committee produced one document from BP that provided the most detailed information to date on what led up to and may have caused the explosion and spill at the Deepwater Horizon rig, floating in mile-deep waters 40 miles off the coast of Louisiana, and why equipment designed to stop a spill failed to do the job.
Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., said there were at least "four significant problems with the blowout preventer" — or BOP — including evidence that it had a significant hydraulic leak and a dead battery that was supposed to activate a so-called "deadman" trigger.
In Kenner, La., where a separate hearing is being held as part of a U.S. Coast Guard and Interior Department investigation, Michael Saucier of the Minerals Management Service testified the government isn't required to inspect the BOPs as they are built and when installed. Operators are required to test the devices every two weeks, and Saucier said the MMS monitors those tests. He said the agency relies on drillers to ensure the device is working properly.
A 2001 report by Transocean, which bought the BOP from Cameron, indicated there can be as many as 260 failure possibilities in the equipment, which is supposed to be the final safeguard against a well blowout by clamping down and sealing a gushing oil well, said Stupak, chairman of the panel's investigation's subcommittee.
"How can a device that has 260 failure modes be considered fail-safe?" asked Stupak.
Stupak said when an underwater remote vehicle tried to activate the blowout protector's devices designed to ram through the pipe and seal it, a loss of hydraulic pressure was discovered in the device's emergency power component.
When dye was injected "it showed a large leak coming from a loose fitting," said Stupak, citing BP documents. He said officials at Cameron, the company that made the preventer, had told the committee the leak was not believed to have been caused by the blowout because other fittings in the system were tight.
Stupak also questioned why the BOP had been modified.
Newman, the Transocean executive told the committee that, indeed, the BOP had been modified in 2005 at the request of BP and with approval of the Minerals Management Service.
Stupak said the committee had been told that one of the BOP's ram drivers had been changed so it could be used for routine testing and was no longer designed to activate in an emergency. He said after the spill BP "spent a day trying to use this ... useless test ram" which no longer was configured for emergency use.
Executives of the companies involved have sought to shift blame on one another at Senate and House hearings this week on the spill.
BP has cited the failure of the blowout preventer owned by Transocean, which in turn has raised questions about the cementing process conducted by Halliburton, a BP subcontractor.
At Senate hearings Tuesday and again before the House panel, Timothy Probert, an executive of Halliburton, said that its work had been completed except for the installation of a final cement cap and that it was done according to the BP drilling plan.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill
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I'm not blaming Obama and have not blamed obama for this.
I'm saying that shit happens and will always happen. If they did not do what they should have done, then sue them and the owners and bankrupt them etc etc,.
Yes, shit will always happen, but when it happens due to negligence and was completely avoidable, that's the sign of a problem. When it affects the livelihoods of a large portion of the region, that's a sign of a catastrophe.
There is no chance of BP being sued out of business. Realistically, they might not even feel too much of an impact in regards to clean up and damages costs.
The oil lobby is powerful and has been avoiding owning up to their negligence for decades. It is an industry that-quite literally- has managed to get away with murder. Not maintaining equipment properlly was a calculated risk that BP knew would be worth taking. Once the glare of the media dies down, it will be back to business as usual for them and the rest of the industry.
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Yes, shit will always happen, but when it happens due to negligence and was completely avoidable, that's the sign of a problem. When it affects the livelihoods of a large portion of the region, that's a sign of a catastrophe.
There is no chance of BP being sued out of business. Realistically, they might not even feel too much of an impact in regards to clean up and damages costs.
The oil lobby is powerful and has been avoiding owning up to their negligence for decades. It is an industry that-quite literally- has managed to get away with murder. Not maintaining equipment properlly was a calculated risk that BP knew would be worth taking. Once the glare of the media dies down, it will be back to business as usual for them and the rest of the industry.
Whoop...There it is...
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And I'm sure all of those whose lives are affected can do a class action and sue the crap out of the company as it should be.
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And I'm sure all of those whose lives are affected can do a class action and sue the crap out of the company as it should be.
Riiiiiiggghhhttttt....Yo u thnk BP is going to pay out anything in any class action suits...LOL... Not happening 3. The BP lawyers will stall until they have caused the class action suit lawyers to run out of money and patience. The game is already being played of "WHO IS TO BLAME" and that game will go on for a while in order to duck responsibility. I am surprised someone hasn't claimed AN ACT OF GOD as the reason...
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And I'm sure all of those whose lives are affected can do a class action and sue the crap out of the company as it should be.
I agree with you, but didn't it take the people of Alaska like close to 20 years before they started getting any money? I think it was something like that. I have little doubt that BP will tie this up for a long, long time. Maybe you can represent 240?
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Represent 240 for what? Did he expose himself again?
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I agree with you, but didn't it take the people of Alaska like close to 20 years before they started getting any money? I think it was something like that. I have little doubt that BP will tie this up for a long, long time. Maybe you can represent 240?
How can you agree with him, yet in the very same sentence, acknowledge how unreasonably tilted the process is in BP's favor? What exactly are you agreeing with?
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Funny how BP didn't find these valves cost prohibitive in the jurisdictions that mandated their use.
but in the US, where oil men were in office, those regulations were laxed, and all of a sudden, BP couldn't come up with the $500K. :-\
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Hugo - how many businesses have you run in your life?
how many 20 Billion a year in profit corporations have I ran in my life? Zero ::)
So let's put this into perspective most people here can understand. Clearly you need some help with this.
Lets say you have a small business that pulls in 1 million in profit annually. Putting this in equivalent terms to this small business, it would be the same as the city requesting a safety item be purchased for $2.50 for a potential problem that without the item in the event of an accident would cost a good portion of industry to be lost in the city as well as cause health concerns to the people and kill local wildlife. Equivalently it's also the same as you getting in tight with the city government and having them drop any demands for you to spend that outrageous sum of Two Dollars and Fifty Cents for the safety item in question. But, like you say, accidents happen ::)
500,000 to a 20 billion in profit business is exactly $2.50(half the cost of a starbucks) to a one million in profit business.
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come on 3333..., the equivalent burden to a small business earning a million in profit would be two fucking dollars and fifty cents. please, I want to hear your sob story excuses for the "20 billion in profit" oil companies worring about 500k?
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Not a sob story. They gambled and lost and now are going to have to pay.
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Not a sob story. They gambled and lost and now are going to have to pay.
major dodge of our little battle ;)
unless new laws are passed retroactively, BP won't have to pay jack shit as a real ratio to what they owe. or have you not been paying attention?
so that you don't avoid the question, would you as the head of a million in profit company pay $2.50 for a device that would protect the comunity and industry of your city? please answer this simple question...
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crickets 3333? ;D
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crickets 3333? ;D
Dodging what? They should have put it there. I agree with that. Their failure, for whatever reason, should and will open them up to millions of lawsuits and possible bankruptcy, as it should be.
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BP's liability is currently capped at 75 million. that's it.
if congress passes a bill, it will be retroactively raised to $10 bil.
it's going to cost waaaay more than that. The $10 bil deal would be a favor for them. They earn that in 9 months of profits.
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Maybe tot he Govt, but not to private people harmed by their negligence.
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Dodging what? They should have put it there. I agree with that. Their failure, for whatever reason, should and will open them up to millions of lawsuits and possible bankruptcy, as it should be.
it sounded like you were trying to dance around saying they should not have had to put it in?
So if you agree, then you agree that with "projects of this nature" it should not be out of line for such safety/failsafe equipment to be in place and mandated by regulations? That seems to be what you're saying now? Or are you going to try to squeeze yourself between sides? Remember, in their perspective, this is the price of a Vinte at Startbucks for a person pulling in a million a year in profits.
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Maybe tot he Govt, but not to private people harmed by their negligence.
The $75 million limit is the cap on private liability claims.
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Source?
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Wow 333, just wow. It is clearly BPs fault, this is the greatest man made disaster of all time, the clean up and damage to industries over several of our states is estimated to be over $1 trillion, and all you have to say is "Oh well, accidents happen, clean it up!" What the hell is wrong with you? What do you not understand about BPs liability with this and the stupid cap for damages? Please reread what you have posted, it simply doesn't make sense. Do you really think that a class action lawsuit will even do anything? How long will it take for it even to get to court much less the trial and appeals later. That is exactly what a corporation the size of BP wants.
They are responsible, they should both pay to clean it up, and pay for damages. Period.
Waaaaaaahhhh, a multi-BILLION dollar corporation shouldn't have to pay an upfront cost because accidents just happen, and I know better because I'm a small business owner. Waaaaaahhhhh.
Give me a break. 8)
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What would you like me to say at this point? Seriously?
Ok, its horrible, its awful, it sucks, but lets clean the damn thing up and stop further damage.
If BP did something illegal than shut em down and send the officers and principals to jail.
If they did not do something they were supposed to, go after them without abandon.
Accidents happen, they always will. If this was something that was not an accident, but something that amounted to criminal negligence, than shut em down.
I already said that they should have put the valve on there, what else do you want me to say?
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What would you like me to say at this point? Seriously?
Ok, its horrible, its awful, it sucks, but lets clean the damn thing up and stop further damage.
If BP did something illegal than shut em down and send the officers and principals to jail.
If they did not do something they were supposed to, go after them without abandon.
Accidents happen, they always will. If this was something that was not an accident, but something that amounted to criminal negligence, than shut em down.
I already said that they should have put the valve on there, what else do you want me to say?
Well, first of all, none of the "solutions" you've suggested are even feasible. Stop acting like BP is a victim and stop acting like an environmental catastrophe is a knee scratch. Clean-up? We're in, what, the third week, and containment is still an issue. And what do you think that clean up is going to consist of? Unicorns farting into the ocean? No, more chemicals... chemicals that will have to be used in such an abundant amount that no one knows how they will affect the environment. This was an avoidable occurrence that stems from...wait for it... failure to adhere to regulation.
BP is not a victim and they are not your friend. They are a corporation that regularly cuts corners and flouts safety regulations to buoy their bottom line. This is just one of their more visible "accidents".
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Who said they are a victim?
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Well, first of all, none of the "solutions" you've suggested are even feasible. Stop acting like BP is a victim and stop acting like an environmental catastrophe is a knee scratch. Clean-up? We're in, what, the third week, and containment is still an issue. And what do you think that clean up is going to consist of? Unicorns farting into the ocean? No, more chemicals... chemicals that will have to be used in such an abundant amount that no one knows how they will affect the environment. This was an avoidable occurrence that stems from...wait for it... failure to adhere to regulation.
BP is not a victim and they are not your friend. They are a corporation that regularly cuts corners and flouts safety regulations to buoy their bottom line. This is just one of their more visible "accidents".
BOOM!
Who said they are a victim?
In all honesty you have with the way you have chosen to defend them with this "accidents happen" routine. Yes, accidents happen, but when they do regardless if the valve was there or not BP is still responsible. You make it sound like you are okay with the damage cap on the corporation. You have clearly stated you are against BP having to pay $500,000 for a safety part, and while you don't blame Obama you're okay with just a measily lawsuit that you are aware will take decades for anything, if anything, will be done. It's no different than getting sued over a car accident.
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Where did I say that? I said they should be sued into bankruptcy and if they did not adhere to the regulations shut down.
I didnt say they are a victim. I'm saying they gambled and lost and now should pay the price for their negligence.
Can you should me where I agreed with a cap on damages or said they are a victim?
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Where did I say that? I said they should be sued into bankruptcy and if they did not adhere to the regulations shut down.
I didnt say they are a victim. I'm saying they gambled and lost and now should pay the price for their negligence.
Can you should me where I agreed with a cap on damages or said they are a victim?
You're statement regarding a class action suit. If I lumped you into being one of the few people(on other threads) that actually agreed with the cap on liability for damages then I apologize. You of all people, being a lawyer, should know that BP can tie this thing up in court for years if there are lawsuits.
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I dont agree with a cap on damages.
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How can you agree with him, yet in the very same sentence, acknowledge how unreasonably tilted the process is in BP's favor? What exactly are you agreeing with?
I was agreeing that the people affected will be able to sue. Whether or not they'll actually get anything out of it, I'm skeptical. And if they do, it could be 20 years down the road. Somethings seriously wrong with that.
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HAHAHAHA
i don't remember BP having any pity on us when gas was $4 a gallon, and they were making record 10 billion in profits.
Suddenly it's "noooo we can't let them fail!" as they sit up there in front of Congress and shrug about the millions of lives they are about to affect.
QFT x 100000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000
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THIS WRITER IS CORRECT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE GULF IS NOT A SPILL!!!!
Gulf Oil 'SPILL' - What A Lie
By J. Speer-Williams
5-14-10
Spill? The corporate media continues to call the volcano of continuous gushing oil, in the Gulf, a spill. How insulting. A volcano that shoots out a million gallons of crude oil a week is hardly a spill.
The common definition of a spill is the liquid that fell out of a container, a one time occurrence, not a massive flow that has no known end. An oil tanker can spill oil; but not Mother Earth, who has been and still is continuously gushing oil from 35,000 feet from within her bowels.
The Exxon Valdez oil spill, of about 10.8 million gallons of crude, on the 24th of March 1989, in the Prince William Sound of Alaska, is considered by many to be the most devastating humanly-caused environmental disaster ever to occur in history.
The definition of "gush" is to flow forth suddenly and violently. What we are faced with in the Gulf of Mexico is a continuous and monster gusher of crude oil that has no known termination point.
Currently, the oil gusher in the Gulf produces an Exxon Valdez disaster about every four days.
How long will the Monetary Cartel's media insist on calling a continuous gusher a mere spill?
Will it still be a spill when millions of people in Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida are losing consciousness from the stench in the air, that will not dissipate?
Will people have to convulse and hemorrhage from their internal organs and lungs before the corporate media will show at least a modicum of truthfulness?
First, the stench will be overwhelming and it won't go away. The air itself will kill because crude oil is composed of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, hyrogensulfide, benzene, toluene, xylenes, ethlbenzene, and trimethylbenzene.
According to the Federal Register and OSHA these are all extremely hazardous substances.
Exposure can cause the following health effects: eye and skin irritation, narcoses, and/or chemical pneumonitis.
High concentrations of hydrogen sulfide can cause headaches, dizziness, unconsciousness and/or death.
More worrisome yet is hurricane season is coming. And a Gulf hurricane that hits any part of our Gulf Coast, this summer, could produce unheard of destruction, sickness, and death.
Even in the face of all these obvious facts "our" "free," "unbiased" media insists on calling a continuous volcanic gusher of toxic crude oil a spill.
Has there ever been more evidence that the International Monetary/Banking Cartel, that own the major oil companies, also own "our," "free," and "unbiased" media?
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I'm not blaming Obama and have not blamed obama for this.
I'm saying that shit happens and will always happen. If they did not do what they should have done, then sue them and the owners and bankrupt them etc etc,.
Im not sure where you are getting your facts from... BP Sells 4 MILLION gallons a day... Since this spill they upped their barrels 2 dollars per barrel... They re MAKING an EXTRA 8 MILLION Dollars Per day, and its costing them 4 million a day in clean up... Sounds like they are not really giving a shit about the costs if you ask me... DO the math buddy... They are making everyone think they will go broke, in actuality they are going to see BILLIONS in Profit... Imagine if they up their barrels 10 dollars or 20 dollars per barrel? They could make an extra 10 billin profit off this oil spill
If we would stop worrying about fossil fuels and would invest in bio-diesel, ethanol, wind, water, solar etc... We wouldn't have to let huge companies destroy our planet for profit...
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Im not sure where you are getting your facts from... BP Sells 4 MILLION gallons a day... Since this spill they upped their barrels 2 dollars per barrel... They re MAKING an EXTRA 8 MILLION Dollars Per day, and its costing them 4 million a day in clean up... Sounds like they are not really giving a shit about the costs if you ask me... DO the math buddy... They are making everyone think they will go broke, in actuality they are going to see BILLIONS in Profit... Imagine if they up their barrels 10 dollars or 20 dollars per barrel? They could make an extra 10 billin profit off this oil spill
If we would stop worrying about fossil fuels and would invest in bio-diesel, ethanol, wind, water, solar etc... We wouldn't have to let huge companies destroy our planet for profit...
Tell that to the former president and vice president........ !! :) Of course they shut down every attempt to move us forward why wouldn't they .....afterall they had to prop the oil industry to stuff more money in their own pockets! Simple as that!! :o And BTW stop terrorizing 338...he's gonna have an aneurysm from looking at so many reasonable facts and numbers.. ;D ;D
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Right cause green tech is so profitable and efficient.
Do me a favor, don't drive your cars, heat your home, fly in a plane, put on the electricity in your home, take a bus, and live under candle light.
The fact of the matter is that wind solar and these other bogus things the greenies tout are nothing more than pixy dust fantasies at best
Ethanol? Yeah that makes a lot sense, burn our food sources and drive the price of food thruogh the roof. Brliiant plan.
Solar? What about the half of the country in cold climates?
Wind? Yeah that's makes a lot of sense. Do you guys realize that wind power is not reliable and needs to be backed up by either a coal or fossle fuel source.
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Right cause green tech is so profitable and efficient.
Do me a favor, don't drive your cars, heat your home, fly in a plane, put on the electricity in your home, take a bus, and live under candle light.
The fact of the matter is that wind solar and these other bogus things the greenies tout are nothing more than pixy dust fantasies at best
Ethanol? Yeah that makes a lot sense, burn our food sources and drive the price of food thruogh the roof. Brliiant plan.
Solar? What about the half of the country in cold climates?
Wind? Yeah that's makes a lot of sense. Do you guys realize that wind power is not reliable and needs to be backed up by either a coal or fossle fuel source.
You're going over the top 3
The whole point is to move your society away from using so much petroleum based products. so adding solar, wind, hydrogen, oxygen etc based fuels will help in reducing the amount of petroleum consumed. You sound like George Bush when the issue of making companies install buffers on their smoke stacks was pressed he (in retarded fashion) said if that done it will cost the economy. What the fuck does cleaning the pollution coming from a factory have to do with the economy? Not doing it will destroy the environment which ironically america is so vocal about.
As it stands now most cars in america are unnecessary as people really don't go anywhere that their public transportation system does not take them...and far cheaper than the cost of a car. The waste in america is obscene as nothing of quality is made which will last many years...your whole society is disposable...everything plastic...everything cheaply made so that another of the same has to be bought relatively soon thereafter.... too much "trendy" crap and not enough traditional. Air travel... considering america is almost completely homogeneous with every city looking exactly like the next there really is no need for much travel as people run from state to state only to engage in the same thing or buy and do the same things they can do in their home state. Homes and home size in america can be greatly reduced as most homes are OVERSIZED, underused and require a lot in the form of heating and cooling...MORE WASTE.
And to correct you with ethanol...IT IS NOT MADE FROM CORN THAT YOU EAT. THere are differing types of corn that serve different purposes. There is feed corn for farm animals, there is table corn for human consumption, there is green corn for ethanol production and then there is corn used for the production of meal and starch. These types of corn CAN NOT be substituted one for the other as they each have their specific qualities and traits. You can not use corn for human consumption to make ethanol so in that regard your comment is wrong.
Solar power is NOT determined by cold climates, but by SUNNY climates. As long as it is sunny no matter how cold, electricity can be generated (panels) or solar heat can be made.
WIND? There are many areas and whole states known for their consistent wind issues...Isn't Chicago called the windy city. How about North and South Dakotah? Th whole area that runs the full length along the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra? Has anyone tapped Yellowstone for its thermal heal like Iceland has done? How about Hawaii for its thermal/volcanic heat? America is a country practically surrounded buy ocean how come it is not separating that water into Hydrogen and oxygen and using the two gases as fuel?
I think the biggest problem in america is a lazy simple minded populace that is set on complaining and slow on doing. Plenty of technology could have had that country far less in need of petrochemical fuels, but then again that would require the oil giants to relinquish lots of profits...AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
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generator running off of water:
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generator running off of water:
??? Kinda shocked at no comments, what don't believe?
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In all seriousness, how long and how much would it cost to switch over to alternate energy sources that would see oil usage drop by over 50%, while still maintaining a level of energy output and the everyday products that oil supplies?
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generator running off of water:
Good example Hugo. I remember in high school and college chemistry performing the experiment where regular tap water was put into a large beaker, a current of electricity passed through it and the separating of the water into Oxygen and Hydrogen. My teacher/professor at the time said this would be the answer to cheap and abundant fuel. Well here it is so many years later, and I am still waiting on this technology to become universal.
About two years ago I watched on CSPAN a science fair held right in Washington DC where students from a number of colleges in america presented such technology as wind, solar, water power as well as still other technologies that they had perfected for the consumer to use to free themselves from the energy grid. Some of the universities were Virginia Tech, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, MIT, etc etc... Some technology was based on green homes, free electricity, solar electricity and heating of home, home designs to capitalize on the earths heat etc etc I have not heard a word about these technologies coming into use anywhere in america since the fair.
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In all seriousness, how long and how much would it cost to switch over to alternate energy sources that would see oil usage drop by over 50%, while still maintaining a level of energy output and the everyday products that oil supplies?
Most of the the technology to switch over to water as a fuel or to use geothermal or solar panels etc are practically off the shelf components. What is needed is someone to show people how to build these devices for their homes so that they can at the very least rely on this as a secondary and maybe even a primary source of energy. As it stands right now the rights to solar panels/technology is woned by the petrochemical industry. Ever wondered why solar panels are so expensive? Now you know. The petrochemical industry is factoring in the money they would lose by you using solar panels instead of electricity, gas or oil to heat/cool/light your home.
BTW...the beginning to making alternative fuels work is changing your lifestyles (something people are going to have to be FORCED into doing). High efficiency lights, no more endlessly running air conditioners, well insulated homes, waste of running many TVs all at once, yadda yadda...
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Most of the the technology to switch over to water as a fuel or to use geothermal or solar panels etc are practically off the shelf components. What is needed is someone to show people how to build these devices for their homes so that they can at the very least rely on this as a secondary and maybe even a primary source of energy. As it stands right now the rights to solar panels/technology is woned by the petrochemical industry. Ever wondered why solar panels are so expensive? Now you know. The petrochemical industry is factoring in the money they would lose by you using solar panels instead of electricity, gas or oil to heat/cool/light your home.
BTW...the beginning to making alternative fuels work is changing your lifestyles (something people are going to have to be FORCED into doing). High efficiency lights, no more endlessly running air conditioners, well insulated homes, waste of running many TVs all at once, yadda yadda...
thanks, all that and not one step closer to an answer to my questions. Again, roughly how long will it take and how much will it cost with the current forms of alt energy and peoples expectations for the same amount of power output and the oil based products they use to get to 50% less oil consumption?
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UPDATE
Here is some more recent news telling of the massive size of the oil rupture. Now it is found that the oil is hundreds of feet thick and in layers below the Gulf's waters.
Scientists find vast unreported oil leak from Deepwater Horizon
Oil and gas gushing 5,000 feet below the sea's surface
(AP)
(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00718/PLUME_PIXEL_SIZE_38_718014a.JPG)
BP video shows oil and gas gushing 5,000 feet below the sea's surface
Anne Barrowclough
A plume of oil 10 miles (16km) long, three miles wide and 300ft thick is pouring into the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico from the ruptured Deepwater Horizon oil rig.
The plume is one of a number that scientists have found gushing into the sea a mile underwater, increasing concerns that the size of the spill could be thousands of times larger than has been previously calculated, according to The New York Times.
“There’s a shocking amount of oil in the deep water, relative to what you see in the surface water,” said Samantha Joye, from the University of Georgia, who is involved in one of the first scientific missions to gather information from the spill. “There’s a tremendous amount of oil in multiple layers, three or four or five layers deep in the water column,” Dr Joye told the newspaper.
After studying footage of the gushing oil scientists on board the research vessel Pelican, which is gathering samples and information about the spill, said that it could be flowing at a rate of 25,000 to 80,000 barrels of oil a day, or 3.4 million gallons a day. The flow rate is currently calculated at 5,000 barrels a day.
The vast amounts of oil pouring from the rig, which exploded on April 20 killing 11 people, is depleting the oxygen in the immediate area, raising fears that it could kill most of the sea life near the plumes. Oxygen levels have already dropped by 30 per cent near some of the plumes.
“If you keep those kinds of rates up, you could draw the oxygen down to very low levels that are dangerous to animals in a couple of months,” she said. “That is alarming.”
News of the plumes came as the Obama Administration increased pressure on BP with a demand for “immediate public clarification” from Tony Hayward, the chief executive, over the company’s intentions about paying the costs associated with the spill. “The public has a right to a clear understanding of BP’s commitment to redress all the damage that has occurred or that will occur in the future as a result of the spill,” said Ken Salazar, the Interior Secretary.
The company is still struggling to cap the leaking underwater oil well. Last night they were making a second attempt to insert a mile-long catheter into the leaking pipe by remote control, after a previous attempt to stem the flow by clogging a faulty seabed valve with rubbish hit a snag.
Technicians using joysticks are operating robotic submersibles that will attempt to place a 6in (15cm) wide relief pipe into the remains of a 21in pipe that used to connect the wellhead to the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig on the surface.
The aim is to use the relief pipe to pump a mix of densely packed items such as golf balls, knotted rope and lumps of plastic into the oil well’s blowout preventer — the giant safety device that failed to work when the rig exploded last month.
An earlier attempt to place a containment dome over the leak was abandoned after the freezing temperatures and high underwater pressure caused a build up of mushy ice that blocked the funnel intended to carry the leaking oil to tankers on the surface of the sea.
The company is drilling a relief well that will eventually seal the leak, but that may take up to three months to complete.
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Not a sob story. They gambled and lost and now are going to have to pay.
The point is they should not have been able to gamble and potentially some of the damage from this will linger on for years. It was in the interests of greater "good" that these fucktards do their jobs properly. You watch they'll get out of doing a proper clean up now, because of course that is in their interests.