Author Topic: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)  (Read 7211 times)

SAMSON123

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2010, 03:31:23 PM »
So a business is going to not incur a cost of $500,000 upfront in return for accepting a potentially unlimited liability?  GMAFB.  

Accidents happen.  Its life.  Lets clean the mess up, figure out what went wrong, and make new procdures for drilling, and get going on finding more oil asap.  



Yeah...its called doing things on teh cheap...I guess they believed this would never happen. Sad reality is many events happen over this same mentality and cheapness. There was a good reason for having these special valves and it is obvious because what is happening now, happened before. Now why would they NOT include this valve when the cost relative to all else is so little? Now that the trouble has come from their foolish behavior let BP open their wallet and start writing blank checks..
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2010, 03:32:28 PM »
it's 500k PER RIG.

I don't know how many rigs they have.  They did the risk analysis, and obviously decided the cost of buying, fitting, installing and maintaining these pieces was greater than the $75 million they were required to pay if the SHTF.

Bush changed the law, and they embraced it.  Obama didn't change it back.  

Whatever it is, they gambled and lost.  Sue them and take all their assets and clean up the mess.

SAMSON123

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2010, 04:54:16 PM »
UPDATE...THE  EXCUSES ARE GONNA COME LIKE RAINDROPS DURING A STORM...Everyone is innocent and it is the other guy, the other device, the lack of battery power and.or whatever other excuse that can be found


What went wrong at oil rig? A lot, probers find
AP




   
Edward Markey AP – Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass, holds jar containing oil from the Gulf Coast oil spill during a House subcommittee …

  
WASHINGTON – Bad wiring and a leak in what's supposed to be a "blowout preventer." Sealing problems that may have allowed a methane eruption. Even a dead battery, of all things.

New disclosures Wednesday revealed a complex cascade of deep-sea equipment failures and procedural problems in the oil rig explosion and massive spill that is still fouling the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and threatening industries and wildlife near the coast and on shore.

The public also got its first look on Wednesday of oil gushing from the broken pipe that rests nearly a mile under water as BP PLC, the well's operator, released a video taken by a remotely controlled camera. Oil flowing from a break in the yellowish pipe becomes lighter in color as it mixes with natural gas. Over the past 21 days more than 4 million gallons of oil have been released.

A litany of worrisome events and findings that were at play on the night of the well explosion and pipe rupture was described in internal corporate documents, marked confidential but provided to a House committee by BP and by the manufacturer of the safety device. Lawmakers released them at a House hearing.

A senior BP executive, Lamar McKay, cautioned, "It's inappropriate to draw any conclusions before all the facts are known." But the documents established the firmest evidence to date of the sequence of catastrophic events that led to the explosion and worsening spill, a series of failures more reminiscent of the loss of the space shuttle Challenger than the wreck of the Exxon Valdez.

Like the 1986 Challenger disaster, the investigation into the Gulf spill may well show that complex and seemingly failproof technical systems went wrong because of overlooked problems that interacted with each other in unexpected ways. In the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster, a captain simply ran his ship onto a reef in Alaska's Prince William Sound, spilling nearly 11 million gallons of oil.

The April 20 BP rig explosion 40 miles off the Louisiana coast killed 11 people. Oil continuing to flow into Gulf waters threatens sensitive ecological marshes and wetlands and the region's fishing industry.

Congressional investigators revealed Wednesday that a key safety system, known as the blowout preventer, used in BP's oil-drilling rig in the Gulf had a hydraulic leak and a failed battery that probably prevented it from working as designed.

They said that BP documents and others also indicated conflicting pipe pressure tests should have warned those on the rig that poor pipe integrity may have been allowing explosive methane gas to leak into the well.

"Significant pressure discrepancies were observed in at least two of these tests, which were conducted just hours before the explosion," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., at a House hearing on the rig fire and oil leak, citing documents his committee had received from BP.

Asked about the tests, Steven Newman, president of Transocean, which owned the drilling rig, and Lamar McKay, president of BP America told the committee the pressure readings were worrisome.

They indicated "that there was something happening in the well bore that shouldn't be happening," said Newman. McKay said the issue "is critical in the investigation" into the cause of the accident.

The well explosion unleashed a massive oil spill that after three weeks remains uncontained.

But Waxman said important elements of what went wrong were beginning to surface.

While "we have far more questions than answers," it appears clear that there were problems with the blowout preventers before the accident and confusion almost right up to the time of the explosion over the success of a process in which cement is injected into the well to temporarily close it in anticipation of future production.

In other developments Wednesday:

• The White House asked Congress to raise the limits on BP's liability to cover damage from the spill beyond the $75 million cap now in law. It also wants oil companies to pay more into a federal oil spill cleanup fund.

BP president Lamar McKay said the company will pay any legitimate claim of damages beyond cleanup costs despite the federal cap.

• On the Gulf Coast, a new containment box — a cylinder called a "top hat" — was placed on the sea floor near the well leak. Engineers hope to work out ways to avoid the problem that scuttled an earlier effort with a much bigger box before they move the cylinder over the end of the 5,000-foot-long pipe from the well.

• The Minerals Management Service told a government panel of investigators in Kenner, La., that inspections of deepwater drilling rigs has turned up only "a couple of minor issues."

The House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing into the spill was the third this week at which executives of BP and two other companies were questioned by lawmakers.

The committee produced one document from BP that provided the most detailed information to date on what led up to and may have caused the explosion and spill at the Deepwater Horizon rig, floating in mile-deep waters 40 miles off the coast of Louisiana, and why equipment designed to stop a spill failed to do the job.

Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., said there were at least "four significant problems with the blowout preventer" — or BOP — including evidence that it had a significant hydraulic leak and a dead battery that was supposed to activate a so-called "deadman" trigger.

In Kenner, La., where a separate hearing is being held as part of a U.S. Coast Guard and Interior Department investigation, Michael Saucier of the Minerals Management Service testified the government isn't required to inspect the BOPs as they are built and when installed. Operators are required to test the devices every two weeks, and Saucier said the MMS monitors those tests. He said the agency relies on drillers to ensure the device is working properly.

A 2001 report by Transocean, which bought the BOP from Cameron, indicated there can be as many as 260 failure possibilities in the equipment, which is supposed to be the final safeguard against a well blowout by clamping down and sealing a gushing oil well, said Stupak, chairman of the panel's investigation's subcommittee.

"How can a device that has 260 failure modes be considered fail-safe?" asked Stupak.

Stupak said when an underwater remote vehicle tried to activate the blowout protector's devices designed to ram through the pipe and seal it, a loss of hydraulic pressure was discovered in the device's emergency power component.

When dye was injected "it showed a large leak coming from a loose fitting," said Stupak, citing BP documents. He said officials at Cameron, the company that made the preventer, had told the committee the leak was not believed to have been caused by the blowout because other fittings in the system were tight.

Stupak also questioned why the BOP had been modified.

Newman, the Transocean executive told the committee that, indeed, the BOP had been modified in 2005 at the request of BP and with approval of the Minerals Management Service.

Stupak said the committee had been told that one of the BOP's ram drivers had been changed so it could be used for routine testing and was no longer designed to activate in an emergency. He said after the spill BP "spent a day trying to use this ... useless test ram" which no longer was configured for emergency use.

Executives of the companies involved have sought to shift blame on one another at Senate and House hearings this week on the spill.

BP has cited the failure of the blowout preventer owned by Transocean, which in turn has raised questions about the cementing process conducted by Halliburton, a BP subcontractor.

At Senate hearings Tuesday and again before the House panel, Timothy Probert, an executive of Halliburton, said that its work had been completed except for the installation of a final cement cap and that it was done according to the BP drilling plan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill
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Al Doggity

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2010, 05:48:32 PM »
I'm not blaming Obama and have not blamed obama for this.

I'm saying that shit happens and will always happen.  If they did not do what they should have done, then sue them and the owners and bankrupt them etc etc,.  

      

Yes, shit will always happen, but when it happens due to negligence and was completely avoidable, that's the sign of a problem. When it affects the livelihoods of a large portion of the region, that's a sign of a catastrophe.

There is no chance of BP being sued out of business. Realistically, they might not even feel too much of an impact in regards to clean up and damages costs.

The oil lobby is powerful and has been avoiding owning up to their negligence for decades. It is an industry that-quite literally- has managed to get away with murder. Not maintaining equipment properlly was a calculated risk that BP knew would be worth taking. Once the glare of the media dies down, it will be back to business as usual for them and the rest of the industry.

SAMSON123

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2010, 06:08:02 PM »
Yes, shit will always happen, but when it happens due to negligence and was completely avoidable, that's the sign of a problem. When it affects the livelihoods of a large portion of the region, that's a sign of a catastrophe.

There is no chance of BP being sued out of business. Realistically, they might not even feel too much of an impact in regards to clean up and damages costs.

The oil lobby is powerful and has been avoiding owning up to their negligence for decades. It is an industry that-quite literally- has managed to get away with murder. Not maintaining equipment properlly was a calculated risk that BP knew would be worth taking. Once the glare of the media dies down, it will be back to business as usual for them and the rest of the industry.

Whoop...There it is...
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 06:42:10 PM »
And I'm sure all of those whose lives are affected can do a class action and sue the crap out of the company as it should be.

SAMSON123

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2010, 06:55:17 PM »
And I'm sure all of those whose lives are affected can do a class action and sue the crap out of the company as it should be.

Riiiiiiggghhhttttt....Yo u thnk BP is going to pay out anything in any class action suits...LOL... Not happening 3. The BP lawyers will stall until they have caused the class action suit lawyers to run out of money and patience. The game is already being played of "WHO IS TO BLAME" and that game will go on for a while in order to duck responsibility. I am surprised someone hasn't claimed AN ACT OF GOD as the reason...
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Skip8282

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2010, 06:56:21 PM »
And I'm sure all of those whose lives are affected can do a class action and sue the crap out of the company as it should be.


I agree with you, but didn't it take the people of Alaska like close to 20 years before they started getting any money?  I think it was something like that.  I have little doubt that BP will tie this up for a long, long time.  Maybe you can represent 240?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2010, 07:01:16 PM »
Represent 240 for what?  Did he expose himself again?

Al Doggity

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2010, 10:22:51 PM »

I agree with you, but didn't it take the people of Alaska like close to 20 years before they started getting any money?  I think it was something like that.  I have little doubt that BP will tie this up for a long, long time.  Maybe you can represent 240?

How can  you agree with him, yet in the very same sentence, acknowledge how unreasonably tilted the process is in BP's favor? What exactly are you agreeing with?

24KT

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2010, 11:15:20 PM »
Funny how BP didn't find these valves cost prohibitive in the jurisdictions that mandated their use.

but in the US, where oil men were in office, those regulations were laxed, and all of a sudden, BP couldn't come up with the $500K.  :-\
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2010, 04:14:11 AM »
Hugo - how many businesses have you run in your life?  
how many 20 Billion a year in profit corporations have I ran in my life?  Zero ::)

So let's put this into perspective most people here can understand.  Clearly you need some help with this.

Lets say you have a small business that pulls in 1 million in profit annually.  Putting this in equivalent terms to this small business, it would be the same as the city requesting a safety item be purchased for $2.50 for a potential problem that without the item in the event of an accident would cost a good portion of industry to be lost in the city as well as cause health concerns to the people and kill local wildlife.  Equivalently it's also the same as you getting in tight with the city government and having them drop any demands for you to spend that outrageous sum of Two Dollars and Fifty Cents for the safety item in question.  But, like you say, accidents happen ::)

500,000 to a 20 billion in profit business is exactly $2.50(half the cost of a starbucks) to a one million in profit business.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2010, 05:19:50 AM »
come on 3333..., the equivalent burden to a small business earning a million in profit would be two fucking dollars and fifty cents.  please, I want to hear your sob story excuses for the "20 billion in profit" oil companies worring about 500k?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2010, 05:24:05 AM »
Not a sob story.  They gambled and lost and now are going to have to pay.


Hugo Chavez

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2010, 05:34:48 AM »
Not a sob story.  They gambled and lost and now are going to have to pay.


major dodge of our little battle ;)

unless new laws are passed retroactively, BP won't have to pay jack shit as a real ratio to what they owe. or have you not been paying attention?

so that you don't avoid the question, would you as the head of a million in profit company pay $2.50 for a device that would protect the comunity and industry of your city?  please answer this simple question...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2010, 07:00:46 AM »
crickets 3333? ;D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2010, 07:02:28 AM »
crickets 3333? ;D

Dodging what?  They should have put it there.  I agree with that.  Their failure, for whatever reason, should and will open them up to millions of lawsuits and possible bankruptcy, as it should be.   

240 is Back

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2010, 07:05:17 AM »
BP's liability is currently capped at 75 million.  that's it.

if congress passes a bill, it will be retroactively raised to $10 bil.

it's going to cost waaaay more than that.  The $10 bil deal would be a favor for them.  They earn that in 9 months of profits.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2010, 07:08:30 AM »
Maybe tot he Govt, but not to private people harmed by their negligence. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2010, 07:18:47 AM »
Dodging what?  They should have put it there.  I agree with that.  Their failure, for whatever reason, should and will open them up to millions of lawsuits and possible bankruptcy, as it should be.   
it sounded like you were trying to dance around saying they should not have had to put it in?

So if you agree, then you agree that with "projects of this nature" it should not be out of line for such safety/failsafe equipment to be in place and mandated by regulations?  That seems to be what you're saying now?  Or are you going to try to squeeze yourself between sides?  Remember, in their perspective, this is the price of a Vinte at Startbucks for a person pulling in a million a year in profits.

Al Doggity

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2010, 08:09:27 AM »
Maybe tot he Govt, but not to private people harmed by their negligence. 

The $75 million limit is the cap on private liability claims.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2010, 08:10:11 AM »
Source? 

MRDUMPLING

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2010, 10:53:31 AM »
Wow 333, just wow.  It is clearly BPs fault, this is the greatest man made disaster of all time, the clean up and damage to industries over several of our states is estimated to be over $1 trillion, and all you have to say is "Oh well, accidents happen, clean it up!"  What the hell is wrong with you?  What do you not understand about BPs liability with this and the stupid cap for damages?  Please reread what you have posted, it simply doesn't make sense.  Do you really think that a class action lawsuit will even do anything?  How long will it take for it even to get to court much less the trial and appeals later.  That is exactly what a corporation the size of BP wants. 

They are responsible, they should both pay to clean it up, and pay for damages.  Period. 

Waaaaaaahhhh, a multi-BILLION dollar corporation shouldn't have to pay an upfront cost because accidents just happen, and I know better because I'm a small business owner.  Waaaaaahhhhh. 

Give me a break.   8)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2010, 11:02:23 AM »
What would you like me to say at this point?  Seriously? 

Ok, its horrible, its awful, it sucks, but lets clean the damn thing up and stop further damage. 

If BP did something illegal than shut em down and send the officers and principals to jail. 

If they did not do something they were supposed to, go after them without abandon.   

Accidents happen, they always will.  If this was something that was not an accident, but something that amounted to criminal negligence, than shut em down. 

I already said that they should have put the valve on there, what else do you want me to say? 

Al Doggity

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Re: Views Of Massive Oil Blowout On The Ocean (video)
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2010, 11:12:22 AM »
What would you like me to say at this point?  Seriously? 

Ok, its horrible, its awful, it sucks, but lets clean the damn thing up and stop further damage. 

If BP did something illegal than shut em down and send the officers and principals to jail. 

If they did not do something they were supposed to, go after them without abandon.   

Accidents happen, they always will.  If this was something that was not an accident, but something that amounted to criminal negligence, than shut em down. 

I already said that they should have put the valve on there, what else do you want me to say? 

Well, first of all, none of the "solutions" you've suggested are even feasible. Stop acting like BP is a victim and stop acting  like an environmental catastrophe is a knee scratch. Clean-up?  We're in, what, the third week, and containment is still an issue. And what do you think that clean up is going to consist of? Unicorns farting into the ocean? No, more chemicals... chemicals that will have to be used in such an abundant amount that no one knows how they will affect the environment. This was an avoidable occurrence that stems from...wait for it... failure to adhere to regulation. 

BP is not a victim and they are not your friend. They are a corporation that regularly cuts corners and flouts safety regulations to buoy their bottom line. This is just one of their more visible "accidents".