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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on July 26, 2010, 11:41:38 AM
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Fuck this PC bullshit.
If you are in this country illegally get the hell out.
It's not the crime and assault by illegals that bother me, becuase had they been legal they still would have committed crimes. that's what happens with large groups of people.
Its the fact that they are here illegally. And guess what? Most of them, 99% of them, are MEXICAN. So stop whining about racism and face facts, and get out.
You people who are citizens and are citing racism need to wake up ans smell the coffee.
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Fuck this PC bullshit.
If you are in this country illegally get the hell out.
It's not the crime and assault by illegals that bother me, becuase had they been legal they still would have committed crimes. that's what happens with large groups of people.
Its the fact that they are here illegally. And guess what? Most of them, 99% of them, are MEXICAN. So stop whining about racism and face facts, and get out.
You people who are citizens and are citing racism need to wake up ans smell the coffee.
Leave? What for? So that American business can take them right back across the border and give them jobs?
In July 2009, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement announced that Krispy Kreme Doughnuts Inc. agreed to pay a $40,000 fine for hiring illegal aliens.
An inspection by ICE discovered Krispy Kreme hired dozens of illegal aliens at their Cincinnati, OH factory.
According to the terms of the agreement, in addition to paying the fine, the doughnut maker promised to revamp their hiring process in order to hire only those authorized to work in this country.
No one at Krispy Kreme was sent to prison, and the $40,000 fine, for a company that saw revenues of $384 million in 2009 alone, is downright laughable.
Another 2009 investigation, discovered that 1,800 of American Apparel’s workers were illegal aliens, using fraudulent documents. The company which is located in Los Angeles is the nation’s largest clothing manufacturer, and the 1,800 illegal workers represented a third of their workforce. The owners of American Apparel have been outspoken proponents of an amnesty plan for this nation’s illegal alien population.
The following is a short list of some of the more high-profile companies recently caught with illegal aliens in their employ:
Agriprocessors Inc. - On May 12, 2008, ICE agents executed criminal and administrative search warrants at Agriprocessors, Inc., in Postville, IA, which resulted in the arrest of 389 illegal aliens. 305 of those arrested were also convicted of criminal offenses.
CEO Sholom Rubashkin was arrested and charged with federal conspiracy of harboring illegal immigrants and aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft. However, the U.S. Attorney’s office later dropped all 72 charges against him.
Pilgrim’s Pride - On April 16, 2007, ICE agents arrested 311 illegal aliens working at five Pilgrim’s Pride sites. Of the 311 arrested, 91 were charged with other criminal violations.
Del Monte Produce - On June 12, 2007, ICE agents arrested 168 illegal alien employees at their Portland, OR facility. In addition to the illegal workers, 13 managers and other workers were arrested and charged with various crimes including selling Social Security cards.
Swift and Company - On Dec. 12, 2006, ICE agents arrested 1,297 illegal aliens at six Swift meat processing factories in six states. 274 of those arrested were also charged with other criminal offenses.
Smithfield Foods - After ICE agents raided the Tar Heel, NC plant and arrested 21 illegal alien workers, 500 workers with fake Social Security numbers were promptly fired from the factory. Another raid in August 2007, netted 28 more illegal aliens, all were from Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras.
Whether it is a landscaping company run-out of someone’s den in Cicero, IL; a 30-unit independent hotel in Virginia Beach, VA; or a corporate giant such as Tyson Foods Inc., once caught with illegal aliens in their employ, the head of that company should spend the next ten years of their life in prison.
Additionally, all of that company’s profits made during the period they employed illegal aliens should be seized, with the money going directly to help pay for border enforcement.
Instead of simply rounding-up the illegal workers (many of whom will not even be deported as a result), and focusing on low-level company employees for prosecution, if there is to be any…We need to begin placing leg irons on the CEOs of companies who make a practice of hiring illegal aliens.
If we arrested these traitors in their walnut paneled offices, and perp-walked them into court for all to see, it would not only punish those who are truly responsible for the illegal replacement of the American worker, but send a powerful message to corporate America…Hire illegal aliens, and you will lose everything you have!
We must demand that our lawmakers see to it that American companies, actually hire American workers…not invaders.
Of course, those same lawmakers will first have to extract themselves from the hip pockets of many those companies.
http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigration-Reform-Examiner~y2010m2d11-We-should-adopt-mandatory-prison-sentences-for-CEOs-hiring-illegal-aliens
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Leave? What for? So that American business can take them right back across the border and give them jobs?
In July 2009, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement announced that Krispy Kreme Doughnuts Inc. agreed to pay a $40,000 fine for hiring illegal aliens.
An inspection by ICE discovered Krispy Kreme hired dozens of illegal aliens at their Cincinnati, OH factory.
According to the terms of the agreement, in addition to paying the fine, the doughnut maker promised to revamp their hiring process in order to hire only those authorized to work in this country.
No one at Krispy Kreme was sent to prison, and the $40,000 fine, for a company that saw revenues of $384 million in 2009 alone, is downright laughable.
Another 2009 investigation, discovered that 1,800 of American Apparel’s workers were illegal aliens, using fraudulent documents. The company which is located in Los Angeles is the nation’s largest clothing manufacturer, and the 1,800 illegal workers represented a third of their workforce. The owners of American Apparel have been outspoken proponents of an amnesty plan for this nation’s illegal alien population.
The following is a short list of some of the more high-profile companies recently caught with illegal aliens in their employ:
Agriprocessors Inc. - On May 12, 2008, ICE agents executed criminal and administrative search warrants at Agriprocessors, Inc., in Postville, IA, which resulted in the arrest of 389 illegal aliens. 305 of those arrested were also convicted of criminal offenses.
CEO Sholom Rubashkin was arrested and charged with federal conspiracy of harboring illegal immigrants and aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft. However, the U.S. Attorney’s office later dropped all 72 charges against him.
Pilgrim’s Pride - On April 16, 2007, ICE agents arrested 311 illegal aliens working at five Pilgrim’s Pride sites. Of the 311 arrested, 91 were charged with other criminal violations.
Del Monte Produce - On June 12, 2007, ICE agents arrested 168 illegal alien employees at their Portland, OR facility. In addition to the illegal workers, 13 managers and other workers were arrested and charged with various crimes including selling Social Security cards.
Swift and Company - On Dec. 12, 2006, ICE agents arrested 1,297 illegal aliens at six Swift meat processing factories in six states. 274 of those arrested were also charged with other criminal offenses.
Smithfield Foods - After ICE agents raided the Tar Heel, NC plant and arrested 21 illegal alien workers, 500 workers with fake Social Security numbers were promptly fired from the factory. Another raid in August 2007, netted 28 more illegal aliens, all were from Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras.
Whether it is a landscaping company run-out of someone’s den in Cicero, IL; a 30-unit independent hotel in Virginia Beach, VA; or a corporate giant such as Tyson Foods Inc., once caught with illegal aliens in their employ, the head of that company should spend the next ten years of their life in prison.
Additionally, all of that company’s profits made during the period they employed illegal aliens should be seized, with the money going directly to help pay for border enforcement.
Instead of simply rounding-up the illegal workers (many of whom will not even be deported as a result), and focusing on low-level company employees for prosecution, if there is to be any…We need to begin placing leg irons on the CEOs of companies who make a practice of hiring illegal aliens.
If we arrested these traitors in their walnut paneled offices, and perp-walked them into court for all to see, it would not only punish those who are truly responsible for the illegal replacement of the American worker, but send a powerful message to corporate America…Hire illegal aliens, and you will lose everything you have!
We must demand that our lawmakers see to it that American companies, actually hire American workers…not invaders.
Of course, those same lawmakers will first have to extract themselves from the hip pockets of many those companies.
http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigration-Reform-Examiner~y2010m2d11-We-should-adopt-mandatory-prison-sentences-for-CEOs-hiring-illegal-aliens
No kidding..... >:(
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Unless they start putting people in jail (not just illegals but managers also) and set big fines (something like a % of their total profit) most companies will prefer to have illegals and risk a small (for their profit) fine -if they are discovered that is- than employ Americans (or legal immigrants).
And of course people could boycott companies that have been caught employing illegals.
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Until the federal government can make SSN cards and ID cards that can't be faked by 5 year olds using copy machines... don't even try to say the employers are at fault.
Saying you want to have employers fined for hiring illegals is like saying you want to fine GM for drunk driving if the car used was a Buick.
The problem is the law breakers you dumbass libs. The MEXICANS, not the businesses.
Jeeze.... blame everyone except the one who caused the crime....
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Until the federal government can make SSN cards and ID cards that can't be faked by 5 year olds using copy machines... don't even try to say the employers are at fault.
Saying you want to have employers fined for hiring illegals is like saying you want to fine GM for drunk driving if the car used was a Buick.
The problem is the law breakers you dumbass libs. The MEXICANS, not the businesses.
Jeeze.... blame everyone except the one who caused the crime....
Permanent Resident Cards(Green Cards) and Naturalization Certificates can't be faked by 5 year olds using copy machines. Homeland Security offers training for personnel employees to spot fake documents. So there is no excuse for businesses.
Yes, the problem is the businesses who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and some even hire them in Mexico and then take them across the border into the US and provide them housing in trailer parks. The federal government is aware of this and does nothing about it.
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Here in CA you can't use a greencard to establish citizenship status. THey come up with a list of documents you can use, which include drivers license, SS card, etc. Everything they allow you to use can be faked easy.
Tell me how come Visa can put a hologram on their card, yet the most advanced federal government on the planet uses cheap, typed cards for identification? Something doesn't add up here, wouldn't you say?
Once again, ya gotta love the libs who try to blame everyone but the actual criminals for the crimes.
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Fuck this PC bullshit.
If you are in this country illegally get the hell out.
It's not the crime and assault by illegals that bother me, becuase had they been legal they still would have committed crimes. that's what happens with large groups of people.
Its the fact that they are here illegally. And guess what? Most of them, 99% of them, are MEXICAN. So stop whining about racism and face facts, and get out.
You people who are citizens and are citing racism need to wake up ans smell the coffee.
I agree. Get the heck out.
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Libs ::)
Anyone committing an illegal act should be punished.
Illegals for entering the country illegally, being in the country illegally and working here illegally.
Companies who knowingly employ them.
Simple.
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Here in CA you can't use a greencard to establish citizenship status. THey come up with a list of documents you can use, which include drivers license, SS card, etc. Everything they allow you to use can be faked easy.
Tell me how come Visa can put a hologram on their card, yet the most advanced federal government on the planet uses cheap, typed cards for identification? Something doesn't add up here, wouldn't you say?
Once again, ya gotta love the libs who try to blame everyone but the actual criminals for the crimes.
Nobody can use a greencard to establish US citizenship. A greencard actually says that you are not a US citizen and you are not allowed to vote or work for the federal government. What a greencard does is say that you are allowed to live and work in the US permanently, as long as you don't work for the federal government. They are extremely hard to fake, and yes they too have holograms. Any employer in the US is required to request employment authorization from a potential employee. I have worked in the US before and I was required to show employment authorization, whether it was H1 Work Visa, Creencard, Temp Work Visa, etc. There is no excuse for businesses.
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Fuck this PC bullshit.
If you are in this country illegally get the hell out.
It's not the crime and assault by illegals that bother me, becuase had they been legal they still would have committed crimes. that's what happens with large groups of people.
Its the fact that they are here illegally. And guess what? Most of them, 99% of them, are MEXICAN. So stop whining about racism and face facts, and get out.
You people who are citizens and are citing racism need to wake up ans smell the coffee.
Well said. I'm tired of the pro-amnesty crowd painting anyone who disagrees with illegal immigration and amnesty as a racist. No one is arguing against immigration. In-fact, I think it's safe to say that most Americans welcome educated, hard-working people to immigrate here through legal channels.
And for the people who keep bringing up the businesses, just because the businesses hire illegals doesn't mean that the illegals are innocent. They're both guilty and both should be punished.
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Nobody can use a greencard to establish US citizenship. A greencard actually says that you are not a US citizen and you are not allowed to vote or work for the federal government. What a greencard does is say that you are allowed to live and work in the US permanently, as long as you don't work for the federal government. They are extremely hard to fake, and yes they too have holograms. Any employer in the US is required to request employment authorization from a potential employee. I have worked in the US before and I was required to show employment authorization, whether it was H1 Work Visa, Creencard, Temp Work Visa, etc. There is no excuse for businesses.
As an employer, I cannot ask to see a 'green card' for the purposes of ascertaining whether or not a potential employee has the legal right to be in this country, and thus hold a job here.
"Any employer in the US is required to request employment authorization from a potential employee"
...and good thing mexicans never lie or else this would be problematic, huh?
Also, how well do you think governmental organizations check to see the 'authorization' of those who walk thru the door of the WIC, food stamp, section 8, etc offices?
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As an employer, I cannot ask to see a 'green card' for the purposes of ascertaining whether or not a potential employee has the legal right to be in this country, and thus hold a job here.
"Any employer in the US is required to request employment authorization from a potential employee"
...and good thing mexicans never lie or else this would be problematic, huh?
Also, how well do you think governmental organizations check to see the 'authorization' of those who walk thru the door of the WIC, food stamp, section 8, etc offices?
Why can't you ask a potential employee to provide work authorization along with all other information they have to provide anyway, name, SS#, address, drug tests, etc.? You want the police in Arizona to ask any person, whether US citizen or not, for proof of legal status, yet you cannot ask a potential employee for proof of employment authorization? No wonder you have an illegal immigration problem.
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Fuck this PC bullshit.
If you are in this country illegally get the hell out.
It's not the crime and assault by illegals that bother me, becuase had they been legal they still would have committed crimes. that's what happens with large groups of people.
Its the fact that they are here illegally. And guess what? Most of them, 99% of them, are MEXICAN. So stop whining about racism and face facts, and get out.
You people who are citizens and are citing racism need to wake up ans smell the coffee.
Agree. Europe and America has been emasculated. Not the public, the governments and leaders. They are so afraid of being politically incorrect that they would rather not do anything about it. I guess it will really be up to the public to show them the way.
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You want the police in Arizona to ask any person, whether US citizen or not, for proof of legal status,
Uh no. And your inability to grasp that simple concept speaks mounds.
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Uh no. And your inability to grasp that simple concept speaks mounds.
My post wasn't directed at you, and I don't know what you are talking about.
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Lawsuit accuses IBP of keeping pay down by hiring illegal aliens
PHIL MILFORD -- BLOOMBERG NEWS - 3/9/02
ROCK ISLAND, Ill. -- IBP Inc., the top U.S. beef processor, was sued by two former workers who say the company acquired last year by Tyson Foods Inc. artificially depressed wages for hourly employees by hiring illegal immigrants.
The lawsuit filed Wednesday by employees Deborah Baker and Richard Enyeart claims the Dakota Dunes, S.D.-based company violated federal racketeering laws.
Baker and Enyeart, who worked at the Joslin meatpacking plant, contend the company intentionally seeks to obtain illegal aliens as cheap labor and that about half the 2,000 workers there are illegally in the United States.
"IBP perpetrates the illegal immigrant hiring scheme through a complex and highly disciplined network of recruiters throughout the world," says the suit, which requests class-action status for all legal employees, damages and a halt to IBP's alleged recruiting of illegal aliens. 'BASELESS' CHARGES
Gary Mickelson, an IBP spokesman, called the allegations "baseless" and "defamatory."
"Our company uses all available tools provided by the federal government to verify the employment eligibility of our team members," he said.
The charges echo allegations made in a federal indictment in Tennessee in December, which charged IBP's parent, Tyson Foods Inc., hired illegal immigrants at 15 poultry processing plants to cut costs.
Springdale, Ark.-based Tyson entered an innocent plea at a January hearing and said the charges are unfounded.
Shares of Tyson, the world's biggest meat processor with fiscal 2001 sales of $10.7 billion, fell 1 cent to $12.74 on the New York Stock Exchange on Friday.
In the Illinois suit, Baker says she is a U.S. citizen who earned as much as $9 an hour while working for IBP in 1997 and 1998. Enyeart says he is a U.S. citizen who earned as much as $9.42 an hour at IBP from 1997 through 2001. They say a rival's plant 50 miles away pays $4 more per hour than IBP and doesn't hire illegal workers. RAID IN 1997 ALLEGED
The suit says the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service has frequently raided the Joslin plant and that a 1997 investigation resulted in the detention of 128 workers who agreed to return to Mexico.
The suit claims the company learns of immigration service inspections in advance, and when inspectors arrive, some illegal workers hide in cold meat lockers while others take the day off.
Mickelson said there was only one immigration service raid and that IBP cooperated fully and wasn't fined or penalized. He said IBP has "worked closely with the INS for many years to prevent the employment of unauthorized workers."
And he said wages are comparable with other companies' plants and are "vigorously" negotiated by the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union.
http://reconquista.tripod.com/NEWS/IBP-TysonSued020309.html
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American Companies Hiring Mexican workers in Mexico and taking them across the border into the US
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Oz,
Amnesty is gonna pass. Obama and biden supported it. Mccain supported it. Palin said last week she's okay with the illegals all staying - as long as they sign a piece of paper.
Sen Thune and Newt are probably the only 2012 potentials who are AGAINST it.... but who knows, they might crack under the pressure of wanting to pander to these new voters. Imagine obama saying "I just legalized your asses... my opponent wants to revoke your citizenship"...
Guess who gets those 15 mil votes?
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Oz,
Amnesty is gonna pass. Obama and biden supported it. Mccain supported it. Palin said last week she's okay with the illegals all staying - as long as they sign a piece of paper.
Sen Thune and Newt are probably the only 2012 potentials who are AGAINST it.... but who knows, they might crack under the pressure of wanting to pander to these new voters. Imagine obama saying "I just legalized your asses... my opponent wants to revoke your citizenship"...
Guess who gets those 15 mil votes?
yeah, you most probably will be right, and as we pass amnesty, our borders will still remain porous. Brilliant.
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By the time he's done, Obama will have done more damage to the United States of America than any foreign enemy during the past 230 years.
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yeah, you most probably will be right, and as we pass amnesty, our borders will still remain porous. Brilliant.
i think both parties are racing to CLAIM amnesty.
"WE were the party who welcomed you to America!"
The backlash won't that big (in terms of lost voters) cause let's face it, 90% of voters already know who they're voting for in 2012. You give 10 million people citizenship - and trick the other candidate into saying he will revoke it - and you win re-election easily.
Hell.... Obama could pass amnesty tomorrow - then throw $ at Thune/Newt in 2012 to run... then use their own words/anti-amnesty past to hand him the win.
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By the time he's done, Obama will have done more damage to the United States of America than any foreign enemy during the past 230 years.
I worry about this too. The only thing that can slow down the runaway money train is turnover in November.
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LOCO ive shown many many times why simply going after employers will not work and made many points to this that you never countered and still refuse to acknowledge in future debates on this subject...
youve also again misstated what the arizona law will do which many ppl have corrected you on that you never countered and again still refuse to acknowledge in future debates....
the problem is that many ppl are misinformed on the subject and while some may have never been exposed to certain realities, you have so get your facts straight brosky...
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They may very well pass it. And of course keep in mind that this could be a scenario:
Amnesty = Civil War
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http://www.baycitizen.org/blogs/pulse-of-the-bay/record-number-deported-under-obama/
A Record Number Deported Under Obama
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A record number of illegal immigrants were deported during the 2009 fiscal year, The Washington Post reported today. The deportations were up 10 percent from 2008 and 25 percent from 2007 — the final two fiscal years under President Bush's term.
A total of 400,000 people are expected to be deported this year. And that's only because 400,000 is the maximum number that "the overburdened processing, detention and immigration court system can handle," The Post says, citing an interview with Immigration and Customs Enforcement director John T. Morton.
The Post says that the deportations are part of a "difficult and politically perilous" strategy to convince Republicans to support the president's comprehensive immigration reform agenda.
Deportations under Obama have focused more on identifying undocumented felons in the criminal justice system and sifting through employer audits than on sweeps of work sites.
The Post has been closely following the administration's immigration policy for months. Here's another good read from March on Latinos' disillusionment with Obama.
An NPR blog points out that political reality often interrupts presidents' agendas: "When he pushed an immigration overhaul in 2006 and 2007 that would have included a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, Bush was rebuffed by an anti-amnesty backlash in Congress and the public."
It'll be interesting to see if Obama has enough political capital left to tackle immigration — and soon — with many political observers expecting bills similar to Arizona's to crop up in a number of Western states in time for the 2012 election.
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http://www.baycitizen.org/blogs/pulse-of-the-bay/record-number-deported-under-obama/
A Record Number Deported Under Obama
start the discussionPrintEmail
Recommend
Getty Images
A record number of illegal immigrants were deported during the 2009 fiscal year, The Washington Post reported today. The deportations were up 10 percent from 2008 and 25 percent from 2007 — the final two fiscal years under President Bush's term.
A total of 400,000 people are expected to be deported this year. And that's only because 400,000 is the maximum number that "the overburdened processing, detention and immigration court system can handle," The Post says, citing an interview with Immigration and Customs Enforcement director John T. Morton.
The Post says that the deportations are part of a "difficult and politically perilous" strategy to convince Republicans to support the president's comprehensive immigration reform agenda.
Deportations under Obama have focused more on identifying undocumented felons in the criminal justice system and sifting through employer audits than on sweeps of work sites.
The Post has been closely following the administration's immigration policy for months. Here's another good read from March on Latinos' disillusionment with Obama.
An NPR blog points out that political reality often interrupts presidents' agendas: "When he pushed an immigration overhaul in 2006 and 2007 that would have included a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, Bush was rebuffed by an anti-amnesty backlash in Congress and the public."
It'll be interesting to see if Obama has enough political capital left to tackle immigration — and soon — with many political observers expecting bills similar to Arizona's to crop up in a number of Western states in time for the 2012 election.
LOL brosky 400,000 of at a minimum 10 million maximum 20 million illegals in this country is only 4% of the illegal population at best...anybody who thinks that is a good job needs to come see me b/c im giving away free slaps to the side of the head
and the 2010 forcast is supposedly going to be much less than 2009 going off the number already deported so far in this year...ill try and dig up the link i posted for 240
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8)
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/dhs-corrects-report-that-overs.html
"Months after reporting that the number of illegal immigrants removed by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement increased 47 percent during President Obama's first year in office, the Department of Homeland Security on Monday corrected the record, saying the actual increase in those deported and "voluntary departures" was 5 percent."[/i]
"ICE removed 387,790 in illegal immigrants in the year ending Sept. 30, 2009, compared with 369,221 in 2008 -- a 5 percent increase."
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8)
from the same link
"Separately, ICE reported that as of Feb. 1, four months into fiscal 2010, total removals are running at a rate 20 percent below last year, or 17 percent lower counting only deportations"
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LOCO ive shown many many times why simply going after employers will not work and made many points to this that you never countered and still refuse to acknowledge in future debates on this subject...
youve also again misstated what the arizona law will do which many ppl have corrected you on that you never countered and again still refuse to acknowledge in future debates....
the problem is that many ppl are misinformed on the subject and while some may have never been exposed to certain realities, you have so get your facts straight brosky...
tonymctones,
You created a thread just for me to discuss this, but you suddenly abandoned the thread and the discussion. So don't come here now saying that you've shown me anything. You have not. Find your thread. I'm still waiting there for you to address my points.
And way to ignore everything I've posted in this thread about American business knowingly hiring illegals in the US and some even hiring illegals in Mexico and then taking them to the US to work!
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tonymctones,
You created a thread just for me to discuss this, but you suddenly abandoned the thread and the discussion. So don't come here now saying that you've shown me anything. You have not. Find your thread. I'm still waiting there for you to address my points.
And way to ignore everything I've posted in this thread about American business knowingly hiring illegals in the US and some even hiring illegals in Mexico and then taking them to the US to work!
It doesn't fucking matter. You keep hammering this point as if it means we should give a free pass to illegal immigrants. Sorry esse, they are not the victims here.
There's a fascinating concept that involves fixing the illegal immigration problem on multiple fronts. Believe it or not, the govt. could punish businesses who hire them while simultaneously doing other things to fix the problem!
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Like what BF, cutting off public assistance?
None of these illegals are making it on field worker and maid wages. People who would have you believe they re here to work are fooling you. Illegals are here to take any an all public handouts they can get their hands on.
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Like what BF, cutting off public assistance?
None of these illegals are making it on field worker and maid wages. People who would have you believe they re here to work are fooling you. Illegals are here to take any an all public handouts they can get their hands on.
Oh, no doubt. I said the same thing in another thread. They're here to suck the system dry. Having a job is just a nice consolation prize.
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Since we are doing away with Political Correctness in this thread, here's what I'm thinking. I would like to swap out some illegal aliens for some of our citizens. Living in Austin, we have a large illegal alien population. I've arrested my fair share of them over the years for various things but have come across a lot of them that had great work ethics, took care of their families and didn't cause any trouble. I would love to exchange those illegal aliens for some of our natural born citizens who themselves are a blight on the tax dole, are career criminals, the only work they do is breaking into cars at night, and can't seem to keep their hands off other peoples things. I'll swap a hard working illegal, trying to survive who is this country illegally for a "legal" piece of crap any day..
How's that for political incorrectness?
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It doesn't fucking matter. You keep hammering this point as if it means we should give a free pass to illegal immigrants. Sorry esse, they are not the victims here.
There's a fascinating concept that involves fixing the illegal immigration problem on multiple fronts. Believe it or not, the govt. could punish businesses who hire them while simultaneously doing other things to fix the problem!
Yes, it does matters. That is the root of your problem.
No, it does not mean we should give a free pass to illegal immigrants. I never said that. You did. You keep putting words in my mouth which shows the weakness in your arguments. Cut the BS already. That's like me saying that you and tonymctones keep hammering your point as if it means you should give a free pass to American companies and individuals who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
Everybody keeps talking about passing laws to go after the illegals, but nobody is talking about passing laws to go after the companies and the individuals who hire them.
You go ahead and keep hammering your point and I'll keep hammering my point.
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Since we are doing away with Political Correctness in this thread, here's what I'm thinking. I would like to swap out some illegal aliens for some of our citizens. Living in Austin, we have a large illegal alien population. I've arrested my fair share of them over the years for various things but have come across a lot of them that had great work ethics, took care of their families and didn't cause any trouble. I would love to exchange those illegal aliens for some of our natural born citizens who themselves are a blight on the tax dole, are career criminals, the only work they do is breaking into cars at night, and can't seem to keep their hands off other peoples things. I'll swap a hard working illegal, trying to survive who is this country illegally for a "legal" piece of crap any day..
How's that for political incorrectness?
Agnostic007,
You can't say anything nice about illegal immigrants on this board. It's forbidden!
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Yes, it does matters. That is the root of your problem.
No, it does not mean we should give a free pass to illegal immigrants. I never said that. You did. You keep putting words in my mouth which shows the weakness in your arguments. Cut the BS already. That's like me saying that you and tonymctones keep hammering your point as if it means you should give a free pass to American companies and individuals who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
You go ahead and keep hammering your point and I'll keep hammering my point.
Weak argument? You were actually arguing that illegals are good because they apparently pay into social security. It doesn't get any weaker than that.
You've also placed their rights ahead of American citizens and you've even argued against the fact that Phoenix and other parts of Arizona are kidnapping havens. When shown that legal American citizens have fallen victim to cases of mistaken identity that have resulted in illegals committing crimes against them (among the other numerous crimes they commit), you brushed it aside and couldn't care less about the citizens whose lives were ruined by people who have no business being here.
But you keep trying to hammer your idiotic point home. It's clear that you have no clue what you're talking about and are among the minority of Americans that place the perceived rights of illegal criminals above those of American citizens.
Illegals are the victims, esse! ::)
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Weak argument? You were actually arguing that illegals are good because they apparently pay into social security. It doesn't get any weaker than that.
You've also placed their rights ahead of American citizens and you've even argued against the fact that Phoenix and other parts of Arizona are kidnapping havens. When shown that legal American citizens have fallen victim to cases of mistaken identity that have resulted in illegals committing crimes against them (among the other numerous crimes they commit), you brushed it aside and couldn't care less about the citizens whose lives were ruined by people who have no business being here.
But you keep trying to hammer your idiotic point home. It's clear that you have no clue what you're talking about and are among the minority of Americans that place the perceived rights of illegal criminals above those of American citizens.
Illegals are the victims, esse! ::)
BerzerkFury,
I've said not one of those things. You can't quote me on any of it, but try if you want to.
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As an employer, I cannot ask to see a 'green card' for the purposes of ascertaining whether or not a potential employee has the legal right to be in this country, and thus hold a job here.
Employment Eligibility Verification
Purpose of Form :
All U.S. employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form.
Number of Pages :
5
Edition Date :
Rev. 08/07/09. The revision date can be found on the lower right hand corner of the form. The 02/02/09 edition is also accepted.
Where to File :
Do not file Form I-9 with U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or USCIS. Form I-9 must be kept by the employer either for three years after the date of hire or for one year after employment is terminated, whichever is later. The form must be available for inspection by authorized U.S. Government officials (e.g., Department of Homeland Security, Department of Labor, Department of Justice).
Filing Fee :
$0
Special Instructions :
You should have the latest version of the free Adobe Reader to download and use Form I-9. Note: The Spanish version of Form I-9, available below on this page, may be filled out by employers and employees in Puerto Rico ONLY. Spanish-speaking employers and employees in the 50 states and other U.S. territories may print this for their reference, but may only complete the form in English to meet employment eligibility verification requirements.
* Download I-9 (Rev. 08/07/09) (English) (447KB PDF)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
* Download I-9 (Spanish) (443KB PDF)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9_spanish.pdf
* Download Handbook for Employers, M-274 (NaNKB PDF)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/m-274.pdf
This page can be found at http://www.uscis.gov/i-9
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I don't know, it would seem to me that employers hiring illegals can't be helping to solve the problem.
I don't think i can legally go to work in most countries without sponsorship or permission
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I don't know, it would seem to me that employers hiring illegals can't be helping to solve the problem.
I don't think i can legally go to work in most countries without sponsorship or permission
Of course they're not helping. Is that the only reason that illegals continue to break the law to come here illegally? Of course not. While people like Loco will try to hammer home the point that the businesses are the bad guys in this situation, acting like they're the sole cause of the problem we have today is a joke.
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Of course they're not helping. Is that the only reason that illegals continue to break the law to come here illegally? Of course not. While people like Loco will try to hammer home the point that the businesses are the bad guys in this situation, acting like they're the sole cause of the problem we have today is a joke.
Free services is certainly a reason.
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Of course they're not helping. Is that the only reason that illegals continue to break the law to come here illegally? Of course not. While people like Loco will try to hammer home the point that the businesses are the bad guys in this situation, acting like they're the sole cause of the problem we have today is a joke.
I never said that they are the sole cause of the problem, but I do bring balance to the discussion. Everybody else seems to talk about nothing but building a wall along the border and deporting everyone who looks illegal and isn't carrying papers.
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So instead of bitching and whining like the pussy you are why don't you man the fuck up and go join the border patrol. I mean seriously..........you're a fucking "moderator" on a political forum on a bodybuilding website. LMAO! How much more fucking pathetic can you be dude? Keyboard tough guy. You wouldn't last 5 minutes manning the border with some mexican drug cartel donkey taking pot shots at you. You'd piss your pants and come crawling back to getbig. I love guys like you that talk tough.....but it's always just talk.
Don't you wipe the butts of grown men and women for a living? See any irony here?
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So instead of bitching and whining like the pussy you are why don't you man the fuck up and go join the border patrol. I mean seriously..........you're a fucking "moderator" on a political forum on a bodybuilding website. LMAO! How much more fucking pathetic can you be dude? Keyboard tough guy. You wouldn't last 5 minutes manning the border with some mexican drug cartel donkey taking pot shots at you. You'd piss your pants and come crawling back to getbig. I love guys like you that talk tough.....but it's always just talk.
Wow you got serious issues dude.
Bye Bye.
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I wonder whose gimmick you are?
Well that will end soon.
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I never said that they are the sole cause of the problem, but I do bring balance to the discussion. Everybody else seems to talk about nothing but building a wall along the border and deporting everyone who looks illegal and isn't carrying papers.
I would think that a wall or a effectively patrolled border along with penalties for business that employ illegals and a round up/deportation of present illegal aliens would solve this problem. (And in turn create a whole new set of problems)
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Another gem from Bob.
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tonymctones,
You created a thread just for me to discuss this, but you suddenly abandoned the thread and the discussion. So don't come here now saying that you've shown me anything. You have not. Find your thread. I'm still waiting there for you to address my points.
And way to ignore everything I've posted in this thread about American business knowingly hiring illegals in the US and some even hiring illegals in Mexico and then taking them to the US to work!
Which thread are you referring to loco? i must have missed your comments...
I have always acknowledged that companies hire illegals and some even bus them across the border my point is that going after them alone will NOT fix the problem.
Ive also given you many ways that going after employers is going to be problematic b/c they will simply wiggle around the laws...you cant make one company responsible for another companies hiring practices and thats what will have to happen to fix the loop hole in your plan...
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Supply and Demand. As long as there is a demand for cheap labor, Mexicans will provide it. There are armies of them here in South Florida cutting grass, hanging out at Home Depot, etc.... Blame free trade agreements, employers, the economy, and laws written that allow them access to taxpayer funded services. There is at this very moment an angry US citizen within his barricaded and secured gated community railing against illegal immigration while a Mexican yardworker is trimming his shrubs.
Don't like the violence in the southwest? Again, supply and demand. If there weren't so many Americans using dope, the violence would be steeply curtailed, in the US and Mexico. Once those free trade agreements went up, factories began dotting the Mexican landscape. Making a scant $40 a week doing dangerous, filthy work in a hot warehouse, many young Mexicans simply joined the various drug gangs for a much more lucrative but deadly life. All because Americans and other North Americans need to satiate their drug habits and pay high prices in order to do so.
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where is the blame for the companies and corporations that have enabled them here. If you think most of them have come up here to mow lawns then you're an idiot. By far it's been established business and often big corporations who have enabled illegals here in America. So look at it from an illegal's point of view. There's a demand for them. Of course they're going to fill it. There are American companies asking for them to be here and work for them. Do we blame them or do we blame those quietly demanding them?
Just to up and tell them to get out speaks to a massive lack of understanding of the problem. The entire problem needs to be seen and addressed before it can be fixed. Only dipshits simplify matters like this. There's much more involved than, "get out"
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where is the blame for the companies and corporations that have enabled them here. If you think most of them have come up here to mow lawns then you're an idiot. By far it's been established business and often big corporations who have enabled illegals here in America. So look at it from an illegal's point of view. There's a demand for them. Of course they're going to fill it. There are American companies asking for them to be here and work for them. Do we blame them or do we blame those quietly demanding them?
Just to up and tell them to get out speaks to a massive lack of understanding of the problem. The entire problem needs to be seen and addressed before it can be fixed. Only dipshits simplify matters like this. There's much more involved than, "get out"
just blaming the employers and thinking that going after them will fix the problem is also a massive lack of understanding of the problem. Employers will simply wiggle around the laws passed, they will make all employees "independent contractors" in which they are not responsible for just like they do in the construction industry...
we have to secure the border, target employers and target illegals doing only one or two of the three will garuntee we fail in this.
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Employers have already been targeted. ::) It is as simple as "get the heck out." Go to the back of the line. Do it the right way.
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Employers have already been targeted. ::) It is as simple as "get the heck out." Go to the back of the line. Do it the right way.
Beach Bum,
Have they? How so, and to what extent? I read an article from a couple of years ago that says otherwise.
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Beach Bum,
Have they? How so, and to what extent? I read an article from a couple of years ago that says otherwise.
Loco here is a thread I created a little while back: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=343007.0
I doubt Hawaii is the only state in the country to pass laws like this.
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Loco here is a thread I created a little while back: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=343007.0
I doubt Hawaii is the only state in the country to pass laws like this.
Yes, I saw that when you first posted it. I think that's a great move on Hawaii's part, but what about the rest of the country? Here is the article I was talking about. It's four years old, but nothing I've read indicates that things have changed for the better.
Illegal Hiring Is Rarely Penalized
Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.
In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three.
The government's steady retreat from workplace enforcement in the 20 years since it became illegal to hire undocumented workers is the result of fierce political pressure from business lobbies, immigrant rights groups and members of Congress, according to law enforcement veterans. Punishing employers also was de-emphasized as the government recognized that it lacks the tools to do the job well, and as the Department of Homeland Security shifted resources to combat terrorism.
The administration says it is learning from past failures, and switching to a strategy of building more criminal cases, instead of relying on ineffective administrative fines or pinprick raids against individual businesses by outnumbered agents.
It is seeking more resources to sanction employers, toughen penalties and finally set up a reliable system -- first proposed in 1981 -- to verify the eligibility of workers. That would allow the government to hold employers accountable for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.
The Homeland Security Department also is seeking access to Social Security Administration records of workers whose numbers and names don't match -- access that has long been blocked by privacy concerns.
Still, in light of the government's record, experts on all sides of the debate are skeptical that the administration will be able to remove the job magnet that attracts illegal immigrants.
"The claims of this administration and its commitment to interior enforcement of immigration laws are laughable," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group that favors tougher workplace enforcement, among other measures. "The administration only discovered immigration enforcement over the past few months, five years into its existence, and only then because they realized that a pro-enforcement pose was necessary to get their amnesty plan approved."
Angela Kelley, deputy director of the National Immigration Forum, which supports immigrant rights, agreed that enforcement has been "woefully tiny."
"Why should the public believe it, because the government hasn't done it before?" Kelley asked.
In recent months, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which succeeded the INS, has dramatically stepped up enforcement efforts. It won 127 criminal convictions last year, up from 46 in 2004, and obtained $15 million in settlements from an investigation of Wal-Mart and 12 subcontractors last fall, a spokesman said. Comparable figures before 2003 were not tracked, the agency said.
In the past few months, ICE has led several high-profile actions: against a Houston-based pallet-services company, Maryland restaurateurs and Kentucky homebuilders, among others. The activity marks a pronounced shift in emphasis, after increasing bipartisan criticism.
However, experts say the linchpin of comprehensive new enforcement plans -- developing an electronic employment-eligibility verification system to replace the paper I-9 forms used for two decades -- is years from being ready. Meanwhile, a cottage industry of document fraud and identity theft will continue, they say.
While most of the government's get-tough rhetoric has focused on people illegally crossing the border, others noted, about 40 percent of the nearly 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States entered the country legally on visas and simply stayed. That means they probably can be caught only at work.
Major work-site crackdowns have run into trouble in the past. A spring 1998 sweep that targeted the Vidalia onion harvest in Georgia, and Operation Vanguard, a 1999 clampdown on meatpacking plants in Nebraska, Iowa and South Dakota, provide case studies of how the government fared when confronted by a coalition that included low-wage immigrant workers and the industries that hire them, analysts said.
The Georgia raids netted 4,034 illegal immigrants, prompting other unauthorized workers to stay home. As the $90 million onion crop sat in the field, farmers "started screaming to their local representatives," said Bart Szafnicki, INS assistant district director for investigations in Atlanta from 1991 to 2001.
Georgia's two senators and three of its House members, led by then-Sen. Paul Coverdell (R) and Rep. Jack Kingston (R), complained in a letter to Washington that the INS did not understand the needs of America's farmers. The raids stopped.
For Operation Vanguard, the INS used a more sophisticated tactic. It subpoenaed personnel records from Midwestern meatpacking plants and checked them against INS and Social Security databases of authorized workers, then interviewed suspect employees. Of 24,148 employees checked, 4,495, or 19 percent, had dubious documents at about 40 plants in Nebraska, western Iowa and South Dakota. Of those workers, 70 percent disappeared rather than be interviewed. Of 1,042 questioned, 34 were arrested and deported.
Nebraska's members of Congress at first called for tougher enforcement, recalled Mark Reed, then INS director of operations. But when the result shut down some plants, "all hell broke loose," he said.
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns (R), who was governor at the time, appointed a task force to oppose the operation. Former governor Ben Nelson (D), now a U.S. senator, was hired as a lobbyist by meatpackers and ranchers. Sen. Chuck Hagel (R) pressured the Justice Department to stop.
Members of Congress at first hostile to immigrants embraced "all the same people who were so repugnant to them before," Reed said, "and they prevailed." Operation Vanguard -- which was designed to expand to four states in four months and nationwide the next year, eventually including the lodging, food and construction industries -- was killed.
Congress "came to recognize that these people . . . had become a very important part of their community, churches, schools, sports, barbecues, families -- and most importantly the economy," Reed said. "You've got to be careful what you ask for."
The mention of Operation Vanguard provokes strong reactions in Omaha, where people say a similar effort today would still cause trouble.
Henry Davis, chief executive of Greater Omaha Packing Company and a third-generation meatpacker, fumes that the INS singled out Nebraska's beef industry. Davis said there is a symbiosis between his company and its workers. His business, which slaughters 2,400 cattle a day, offers free English and citizenship classes, paid vacations, health fairs and citizenship ceremonies to workers, he said.
Lourdes Gouveia, a sociologist at the University of Nebraska at Omaha who has studied the meatpacking industry for two decades, said Operation Vanguard's lessons have gone unlearned. Rather than leave the country after the crackdown, workers just changed jobs.
Meatpackers "need workers, and white Americans are not going to apply for these jobs," said Ben Salazar, a longtime activist and publisher of the newspaper Nuestro Mundo. "Immigrants know they're needed, so they will take their chances."
In an interview, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff acknowledged the administration's record but said a combination of carrots and sticks for business can work.
"It would be hard to sustain political support for vigorous work-site enforcement if you don't give employers an avenue to hire their workers in a way that is legal, because you're basically saying, 'You've got to go out of business,' " Chertoff said.
On the other hand, he said, "businesses need to understand if you don't . . . play by the rules, we're really going to come down on you. . . . That's a very powerful place to stand in resisting people who are going to push back."
Company officials who knowingly employ illegal workers can be fined and, if they continue, face jail time. Housing or harboring illegal workers or laundering money can carry long prison sentences. But the easy availability of fraudulent documents frustrates investigators, as does a law that protects businesses as long as a worker's document "appears on its face to be genuine."
Statistics show that the numbers of fines and convictions dropped sharply after 1999, with fines all but phased out except for occasional small cases. After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, a 2003 memorandum issued by ICE required field offices to request approval before opening work-site cases not related to protecting "critical infrastructure," such as nuclear plants. Agents focused on removing unauthorized workers, not punishing employers.
ICE also faced a $500 million budget shortfall, and resources were shifted from traditional enforcement to investigations related to national security. Farms, restaurants and the nation's food supply chain "did not make the cut," Reed said. "We were pushed away from doing enforcement."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html
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LOCO what do you do about the problems i mentioned in targeting employers?
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Yes, I saw that when you first posted it. I think that's a great move on Hawaii's part, but what about the rest of the country? Here is the article I was talking about. It's four years old, but nothing I've read indicates that things have changed for the better.
There are state laws all over the country targeting employers:
States try to block illegal workers
Updated 7/10/2006
By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY
At least 30 states have passed laws or taken other steps this year to crack down on illegal immigrants, often making it harder for undocumented workers to find jobs or receive public services.
STATES TAKE ACTION: A state-by-state look
Acting while Congress struggles to set policy regarding the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, states have enacted at least 57 laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures and a USA TODAY analysis. Among major themes of the state legislation: fining businesses that hire undocumented workers and denying such companies public contracts if they don't verify the legal status of employees.
"The trends ... have leaned toward the punitive side," says Ann Morse, an immigration expert at the National Conference of State Legislatures. "The No. 1 topic has been employment in terms of deterring employers and employees."
Examples:
• A Colorado law enacted in June prohibits awarding state contracts to businesses that knowingly employ illegal immigrants.
• A Louisiana law approved in June subjects businesses that have state contracts and more than 10 employees to fines if they don't fire workers known to be undocumented.
• A Georgia bill enacted in April has a phased-in requirement that public employers and government contractors and subcontractors verify information on newly hired workers through a federal program.
The U.S. Senate and House have passed widely divergent immigration bills. The Senate's legislation would put most undocumented immigrants on a path to citizenship. The House bill would make illegal immigrants felons and increase penalties for hiring them.
Some lawmakers and advocates of stricter immigration enforcement say the flurry of legislation reflects states' mounting frustration with federal officials.
"State and local politicians and the grass-roots in those states are up in arms over Washington's conspicuous lack of leadership," says John Keeley, spokesman for the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors tighter controls on immigration. "Immigration ... is a driving factor for the three biggest budget items states face: education, health care and criminal justice."
Under federal law, states must provide some services to illegal immigrants, including public education and emergency medical care. States do not have to provide commercial licenses, food assistance, health care, unemployment benefits or other services.
States' focus on workers' documentation is unfair, says Brent Wilkes, national executive director of the League of United Latin American Citizens, a civil rights group. "It feels like we're back to the days when it's OK to discriminate against minorities," he says.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-07-09-states-illegal-workers_x.htm
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Illegals don't come here for jobs, they come here for public assistance handouts.
There are more of them on food stamps than on payrolls.
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Illegals don't come here for jobs, they come here for public assistance handouts.
There are more of them on food stamps than on payrolls.
x 50000000000
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Illegals don't come here for jobs, they come here for public assistance handouts.
There are more of them on food stamps than on payrolls.
Any data out there to back that up?
Curious.
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There are state laws all over the country targeting employers:
States try to block illegal workers
Updated 7/10/2006
By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY
At least 30 states have passed laws or taken other steps this year to crack down on illegal immigrants, often making it harder for undocumented workers to find jobs or receive public services.
STATES TAKE ACTION: A state-by-state look
Acting while Congress struggles to set policy regarding the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, states have enacted at least 57 laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures and a USA TODAY analysis. Among major themes of the state legislation: fining businesses that hire undocumented workers and denying such companies public contracts if they don't verify the legal status of employees.
"The trends ... have leaned toward the punitive side," says Ann Morse, an immigration expert at the National Conference of State Legislatures. "The No. 1 topic has been employment in terms of deterring employers and employees."
Examples:
• A Colorado law enacted in June prohibits awarding state contracts to businesses that knowingly employ illegal immigrants.
• A Louisiana law approved in June subjects businesses that have state contracts and more than 10 employees to fines if they don't fire workers known to be undocumented.
• A Georgia bill enacted in April has a phased-in requirement that public employers and government contractors and subcontractors verify information on newly hired workers through a federal program.
The U.S. Senate and House have passed widely divergent immigration bills. The Senate's legislation would put most undocumented immigrants on a path to citizenship. The House bill would make illegal immigrants felons and increase penalties for hiring them.
Some lawmakers and advocates of stricter immigration enforcement say the flurry of legislation reflects states' mounting frustration with federal officials.
"State and local politicians and the grass-roots in those states are up in arms over Washington's conspicuous lack of leadership," says John Keeley, spokesman for the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors tighter controls on immigration. "Immigration ... is a driving factor for the three biggest budget items states face: education, health care and criminal justice."
Under federal law, states must provide some services to illegal immigrants, including public education and emergency medical care. States do not have to provide commercial licenses, food assistance, health care, unemployment benefits or other services.
States' focus on workers' documentation is unfair, says Brent Wilkes, national executive director of the League of United Latin American Citizens, a civil rights group. "It feels like we're back to the days when it's OK to discriminate against minorities," he says.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-07-09-states-illegal-workers_x.htm
Beach,
This is all great and it's a start, but most of these laws have to do with public contracts only. And it doesn't matter how many laws are passed if they are not being enforced. Hopefully, you can see that because of powerful corporations and the government that vows to them, laws that target employers of illegal immigrants are hardly enforced.
How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico
Profits from illegal labor led to the kind of corruption that apparently worried Eisenhower. Joseph White, a retired 21-year veteran of the Border Patrol, says that in the early 1950s, some senior US officials overseeing immigration enforcement "had friends among the ranchers," and agents "did not dare" arrest their illegal workers.
Walt Edwards, who joined the Border Patrol in 1951, tells a similar story. He says: "When we caught illegal aliens on farms and ranches, the farmer or rancher would often call and complain [to officials in El Paso]. And depending on how politically connected they were, there would be political intervention. That is how we got into this mess we are in now."
Bill Chambers, who worked for a combined 33 years for the Border Patrol and the then-called US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), says politically powerful people are still fueling the flow of illegals.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
Illegal Hiring Is Rarely Penalized
The government's steady retreat from workplace enforcement in the 20 years since it became illegal to hire undocumented workers is the result of fierce political pressure from business lobbies, immigrant rights groups and members of Congress, according to law enforcement veterans. Punishing employers also was de-emphasized as the government recognized that it lacks the tools to do the job well, and as the Department of Homeland Security shifted resources to combat terrorism.
The Georgia raids netted 4,034 illegal immigrants, prompting other unauthorized workers to stay home. As the $90 million onion crop sat in the field, farmers "started screaming to their local representatives," said Bart Szafnicki, INS assistant district director for investigations in Atlanta from 1991 to 2001.
Georgia's two senators and three of its House members, led by then-Sen. Paul Coverdell (R) and Rep. Jack Kingston (R), complained in a letter to Washington that the INS did not understand the needs of America's farmers. The raids stopped.
For Operation Vanguard, the INS used a more sophisticated tactic. It subpoenaed personnel records from Midwestern meatpacking plants and checked them against INS and Social Security databases of authorized workers, then interviewed suspect employees. Of 24,148 employees checked, 4,495, or 19 percent, had dubious documents at about 40 plants in Nebraska, western Iowa and South Dakota. Of those workers, 70 percent disappeared rather than be interviewed. Of 1,042 questioned, 34 were arrested and deported.
Nebraska's members of Congress at first called for tougher enforcement, recalled Mark Reed, then INS director of operations. But when the result shut down some plants, "all hell broke loose," he said.
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns (R), who was governor at the time, appointed a task force to oppose the operation. Former governor Ben Nelson (D), now a U.S. senator, was hired as a lobbyist by meatpackers and ranchers. Sen. Chuck Hagel (R) pressured the Justice Department to stop.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html
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Illegals don't come here for jobs, they come here for public assistance handouts.
There are more of them on food stamps than on payrolls.
Says who? Got anything at all to back that up?
"Still, in light of the government's record, experts on all sides of the debate are skeptical that the administration will be able to remove the job magnet that attracts illegal immigrants."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html
"More often, he said, the decision to migrate involve a variety of reasons, such "improvement of earnings" in Mexico, even though immigrants earn very low wages in the United States.
The study's author, Rakesh Kochhar, associate director of research for the center, said that, based on estimates, undocumented Mexican immigrants earn about twice as much in construction, manufacturing and hospitality jobs as they did working south of the border."
Other factors that contributed to Mexican migration include rejoining families and improved working conditions, Suro and Kochhar said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601491.html
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Says who? Got anything at all to back that up?
"Still, in light of the government's record, experts on all sides of the debate are skeptical that the administration will be able to remove the job magnet that attracts illegal immigrants."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html
"More often, he said, the decision to migrate involve a variety of reasons, such "improvement of earnings" in Mexico, even though immigrants earn very low wages in the United States.
The study's author, Rakesh Kochhar, associate director of research for the center, said that, based on estimates, undocumented Mexican immigrants earn about twice as much in construction, manufacturing and hospitality jobs as they did working south of the border."
Other factors that contributed to Mexican migration include rejoining families and improved working conditions, Suro and Kochhar said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601491.html
Loco - you don't live here. anyone with a clue knows whats going on. illegals are like locusts.
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Still waiting for the data on illegals who come here for the benefits and not the work.
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Still waiting for the data on illegals who come here for the benefits and not the work.
What are they going to leave a filled out questionaire at the border?
Everyone with a clue knows the deal.
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What are they going to leave a filled out questionaire at the border?
Everyone with a clue knows the deal.
No, it very much sounds like a bias assumption. If its true there should be some data on it. I'm not saying it is one way or another. I'm just not going to fall into that trap.
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No, it very much sounds like a bias assumption. If its true there should be some data on it. I'm not saying it is one way or another. I'm just not going to fall into that trap.
Many impregnate a woman so the kid qualifies for benes and they go from there to qualify for housing, education, medical, food stamps, etc.
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Loco - you don't live here. anyone with a clue knows whats going on. illegals are like locusts.
I am not defending illegal immigrants. Simply stating the facts.
And having actually worked in the US before as a legal foreign worker, I have much more knowledge on the legal side of this issue than many Americans who live in the US. A getbiger on this board already claimed to be an employer in the US, yet he never heard of Form I-9.
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Many impregnate a woman so the kid qualifies for benes and they go from there to qualify for housing, education, medical, food stamps, etc.
333386,
Do you have any data whatsoever to backup Herefords two claims below?
Illegals don't come here for jobs, they come here for public assistance handouts.
There are more of them on food stamps than on payrolls.
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I am not defending illegal immigrants. Simply stating the facts.
And having actually worked in the US before as a legal foreign worker, I have much more knowledge on the legal side of this issue than many Americans who live in the US. A getbiger on this board already claimed to be an employer in the US, yet he never heard of Form I-9.
Must have been blacken700.
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Must have been blacken700.
No, it was Hereford:
As an employer, I cannot ask to see a 'green card' for the purposes of ascertaining whether or not a potential employee has the legal right to be in this country, and thus hold a job here.
Employment Eligibility Verification
Purpose of Form :
All U.S. employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form.
Number of Pages :
5
Edition Date :
Rev. 08/07/09. The revision date can be found on the lower right hand corner of the form. The 02/02/09 edition is also accepted.
Where to File :
Do not file Form I-9 with U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or USCIS. Form I-9 must be kept by the employer either for three years after the date of hire or for one year after employment is terminated, whichever is later. The form must be available for inspection by authorized U.S. Government officials (e.g., Department of Homeland Security, Department of Labor, Department of Justice).
Filing Fee :
$0
Special Instructions :
You should have the latest version of the free Adobe Reader to download and use Form I-9. Note: The Spanish version of Form I-9, available below on this page, may be filled out by employers and employees in Puerto Rico ONLY. Spanish-speaking employers and employees in the 50 states and other U.S. territories may print this for their reference, but may only complete the form in English to meet employment eligibility verification requirements.
* Download I-9 (Rev. 08/07/09) (English) (447KB PDF)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
* Download I-9 (Spanish) (443KB PDF)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9_spanish.pdf
* Download Handbook for Employers, M-274 (NaNKB PDF)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/m-274.pdf
This page can be found at http://www.uscis.gov/i-9
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Yea, I got that info from a HUD website a few years back. I have it on my harddrive somwhere, but I am looking for the origional study for you guys.
Hang tight.
@ loco: You see, illegals are experts at doing this thing called LYING. So an employer gives them a piece of paper to sign. How many do you think say "well, I am an illegal, so I better let them know" vs "tell them whatever they want to hear"?
And what if the documenets they present are faked? Almost all of them are.
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Check it out, yo.
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(http://C:\Users\joe\Desktop\Joe\AGRI 500\welfar2.gif)
Found it..... How can I upload a .gif file?
Hereford,
Click "Modify" on your post
Then click "Additional Options..."
Then click "Browse" to attach the gif.
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Got it loco, thanks.
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"Do not file Form I-9 with U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or USCIS. Form I-9 must be kept by the employer either for three years after the date of hire or for one year after employment is terminated, whichever is later."
So even if you get 'verifying' documentation, don't turn it in, keep it for three years, then throw it away. Likewise, if you commit any crime, just make a personal report and file it for three years, then it's all good. Please don't ask the government to do anything.... such as their job.
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"Do not file Form I-9 with U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or USCIS. Form I-9 must be kept by the employer either for three years after the date of hire or for one year after employment is terminated, whichever is later."
So even if you get 'verifying' documentation, don't turn it in, keep it for three years, then throw it away. Likewise, if you commit any crime, just make a personal report and file it for three years, then it's all good. Please don't ask the government to do anything.... such as their job.
You are talking about honest employers who are lied to and presented with false documents. As long as these employers fill out Form I-9 for every employee and verify, to the best of their ability, that the documents are legitimate, they have covered his own butt.
I am talking, and have posted plenty of proof, about dishonest employers who want to intentionally hire illegal immigrants. And the government knows about it and does nothing about it.
A Green Card, by the way, is nearly impossible to fake now a days.
USCIS To Issue Redesigned Green Card
WASHINGTON - U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced today that it has redesigned the Permanent Resident Card - commonly known as the "Green Card" - to incorporate several major new security features. The Green Card redesign is the latest advance in USCIS's ongoing efforts to deter immigration fraud. State-of-the-art technology incorporated into the new card prevents counterfeiting, obstructs tampering, and facilitates quick and accurate authentication. Beginning today, USCIS will issue all Green Cards in the new, more secure format.
"Redesigning the Green Card is a major achievement for USCIS," said Director Alejandro Mayorkas. "The new security technology makes a critical contribution to the integrity of the immigration system."
The enhanced features will better serve law enforcement, employers, and immigrants, all of whom look to the Green Card as definitive proof of authorization to live and work in the United States. Among the benefits of the redesign: Secure optical media will store biometrics for rapid and reliable identification of the card holder. Holographic images, laser engraved fingerprints, and high resolution micro-images will make the card nearly impossible to reproduce. Tighter integration of the card design with personalized elements will make it difficult to alter the card if stolen. Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) capability will allow Customs and Border Protection officers at ports of entry to read the card from a distance and compare it immediately to file data. Finally, a preprinted return address will enable the easy return of a lost card to USCIS.
In keeping with the Permanent Resident Card's nickname, it will now be colored green for easy recognition. USCIS will replace Green Cards already in circulation as individuals apply for renewal or replacement.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=79bd3893c4888210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=68439c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD
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Beach,
This is all great and it's a start, but most of these laws have to do with public contracts only. And it doesn't matter how many laws are passed if they are not being enforced. Hopefully, you can see that because of powerful corporations and the government that vows to them, laws that target employers of illegal immigrants are hardly enforced.
Not all. Hawaii's law applies to all contractors. Some of the others cited in my other thread (although not dealing exclusively with employers), include the following: "Colorado restricts illegal immigrants from receiving in-state tuition. Nebraska requires verification of immigration status to obtain public benefits. In Tennessee, knowingly presenting a false ID card to get a job is a misdemeanor."
Then there is federal law, which prohibits all employers from hiring illegal immigrants (see quote below). The fact the federal government isn't securing the borders and enforcing the law is the reason Arizona is trying to protect its borders and citizens. So, to say employers haven't been targeted is simply not accurate. You can argue the feds don't aggressively enforce the law, but not that laws targeting employers don't exist.
The Law Against Hiring or Harboring Illegal Aliens
The following is an overview of federal law on hiring and harboring illegal aliens. It is not a substitute for professional legal counsel in specific situations.
Summary
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization or local government) commits a federal felony when he:
assists an alien whom he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him to obtain employment,
encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by referring him to an employer, by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime.
Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.
Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens
It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States.1 It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work.2 Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified.3
It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements.4 Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with 3 days advance notice, they must be made available for inspection.
Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home.5 Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law.6
An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor.7 The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements.8
If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.9
An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts.10 Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer, that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer’s work force.11 Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual’s accent or foreign appearance. Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien workforce of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.12
It is illegal for non-profit and religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist aliens.13 Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment.14
It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to 5 years.15
Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens
It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law.16 Harboring means any conduct that tends to substantially facilitate an alien to remain in the U.S. illegally.17 The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally, but has since lost his legal status.
An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien’s illegal employment.18 Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. 19
It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien’s entry or residence is in violation of the law.20 This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that “encouraging” includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious “errors”.21 The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities “without delay” upon entry to the U.S.
The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to 20 years imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death “of any person,” the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. 22 Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored.23 A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a “victim” under the Victim and Witness Protection Act.24
Conspiracy to commit the crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years imprisonment.25
Enforcement
A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third party complaints that have “a reasonable probability of validity.”26
Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.27
State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is “no extant federal limitation” on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws.28
Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous or erratic behavior, dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship, and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient.29 Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer’s consent to enter work places or residences.30
Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.31
Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO).32 The “pattern of racketeering” activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO “enterprise” can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include non-profit associations.
Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or social security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or social security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions.33
U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than 3 employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice.34
In addition to the federal statutes summarized above, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersbcdd
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...wait a minute... wait a minute.....
Now you are saying you only want employers who knowingly hire illegals to be thrown in jail? Who the hell targets only illegals as their workforce? Are you refering to the guy needing a deck built and so goes down to the Home Depoe and picks up some essays that are loitering around the front?
Your whole approach up until now was to excuse the criminals and prosecute the business owners! By that logic lets let the drunk drive off and arrest the owner of the grocery store where the criminal bought the beer.
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...wait a minute... wait a minute.....
Now you are saying you only want employers who knowingly hire illegals to be thrown in jail? Who the hell targets only illegals as their workforce? Are you refering to the guy needing a deck built and so goes down to the Home Depoe and picks up some essays that are loitering around the front?
Your whole approach up until now was to excuse the criminals and prosecute the business owners! By that logic lets let the drunk drive off and arrest the owner of the grocery store where the criminal bought the beer.
This is what I'm talking about:
In July 2009, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement announced that Krispy Kreme Doughnuts Inc. agreed to pay a $40,000 fine for hiring illegal aliens.
An inspection by ICE discovered Krispy Kreme hired dozens of illegal aliens at their Cincinnati, OH factory.
According to the terms of the agreement, in addition to paying the fine, the doughnut maker promised to revamp their hiring process in order to hire only those authorized to work in this country.
No one at Krispy Kreme was sent to prison, and the $40,000 fine, for a company that saw revenues of $384 million in 2009 alone, is downright laughable.
Another 2009 investigation, discovered that 1,800 of American Apparel’s workers were illegal aliens, using fraudulent documents. The company which is located in Los Angeles is the nation’s largest clothing manufacturer, and the 1,800 illegal workers represented a third of their workforce. The owners of American Apparel have been outspoken proponents of an amnesty plan for this nation’s illegal alien population.
The following is a short list of some of the more high-profile companies recently caught with illegal aliens in their employ:
Agriprocessors Inc. - On May 12, 2008, ICE agents executed criminal and administrative search warrants at Agriprocessors, Inc., in Postville, IA, which resulted in the arrest of 389 illegal aliens. 305 of those arrested were also convicted of criminal offenses.
CEO Sholom Rubashkin was arrested and charged with federal conspiracy of harboring illegal immigrants and aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft. However, the U.S. Attorney’s office later dropped all 72 charges against him.
Pilgrim’s Pride - On April 16, 2007, ICE agents arrested 311 illegal aliens working at five Pilgrim’s Pride sites. Of the 311 arrested, 91 were charged with other criminal violations.
Del Monte Produce - On June 12, 2007, ICE agents arrested 168 illegal alien employees at their Portland, OR facility. In addition to the illegal workers, 13 managers and other workers were arrested and charged with various crimes including selling Social Security cards.
Swift and Company - On Dec. 12, 2006, ICE agents arrested 1,297 illegal aliens at six Swift meat processing factories in six states. 274 of those arrested were also charged with other criminal offenses.
Smithfield Foods - After ICE agents raided the Tar Heel, NC plant and arrested 21 illegal alien workers, 500 workers with fake Social Security numbers were promptly fired from the factory. Another raid in August 2007, netted 28 more illegal aliens, all were from Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras.
Whether it is a landscaping company run-out of someone’s den in Cicero, IL; a 30-unit independent hotel in Virginia Beach, VA; or a corporate giant such as Tyson Foods Inc., once caught with illegal aliens in their employ, the head of that company should spend the next ten years of their life in prison.
Additionally, all of that company’s profits made during the period they employed illegal aliens should be seized, with the money going directly to help pay for border enforcement.
Instead of simply rounding-up the illegal workers (many of whom will not even be deported as a result), and focusing on low-level company employees for prosecution, if there is to be any…We need to begin placing leg irons on the CEOs of companies who make a practice of hiring illegal aliens.
If we arrested these traitors in their walnut paneled offices, and perp-walked them into court for all to see, it would not only punish those who are truly responsible for the illegal replacement of the American worker, but send a powerful message to corporate America…Hire illegal aliens, and you will lose everything you have!
We must demand that our lawmakers see to it that American companies, actually hire American workers…not invaders.
Of course, those same lawmakers will first have to extract themselves from the hip pockets of many those companies.
http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigration-Reform-Examiner~y2010m2d11-We-should-adopt-mandatory-prison-sentences-for-CEOs-hiring-illegal-aliens
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And this:
American Companies Hiring Mexican workers in Mexico and taking them across the border into the US
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Not all. Hawaii's law applies to all contractors. Some of the others cited in my other thread (although not dealing exclusively with employers), include the following: "Colorado restricts illegal immigrants from receiving in-state tuition. Nebraska requires verification of immigration status to obtain public benefits. In Tennessee, knowingly presenting a false ID card to get a job is a misdemeanor."
Then there is federal law, which prohibits all employers from hiring illegal immigrants (see quote below). The fact the federal government isn't securing the borders and enforcing the law is the reason Arizona is trying to protect its borders and citizens. So, to say employers haven't been targeted is simply not accurate. You can argue the feds don't aggressively enforce the law, but not that laws targeting employers don't exist.
You are not targeting employers if you are not enforcing those laws. Maybe the states are enforcing those laws, I don't know!
Conspiracy to commit the crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years imprisonment.
The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years imprisonment.
How many employers have states sent to prison for five to ten years for hiring and smuggling illegal immigrants? How many employers have states collected $10,000 fines from for hiring and smuggling illegal immigrants?
By the way, given the profits some of these companies make, a $10,000 fine for hiring illegal immigrants is laughable!
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You are not targeting employers if you are not enforcing those laws. Maybe the states are enforcing those laws, I don't know!
How many employers have states sent to prison for five to ten years for hiring and smuggling illegal immigrants? How many employers have states collected $10,000 fines from for hiring and smuggling illegal immigrants?
By the way, given the profits some of these companies make, a $10,000 fine for hiring illegal immigrants is laughable!
I don't have any stats on how aggressive the feds and/or the states are being when it comes to enforcing laws that are on the books. But the fact states are passing laws targeting employers means they are in fact targeting employers. To what extent is debatable.
You're pretty much making the case for Arizona and other states to start tackling the illegal immigration problem. The feds aren't doing their job.
Also, even we assume that the government isn't enforcing existing laws against employers as aggressively as it should, that doesn't mean government shouldn't aggressively pursue illegal immigrants.
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Nails it again. Lock & Load
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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I don't have any stats on how aggressive the feds and/or the states are being when it comes to enforcing laws that are on the books. But the fact states are passing laws targeting employers means they are in fact targeting employers. To what extent is debatable.
You're pretty much making the case for Arizona and other states to start tackling the illegal immigration problem. The feds aren't doing their job.
Also, even we assume that the government isn't enforcing existing laws against employers as aggressively as it should, that doesn't mean government shouldn't aggressively pursue illegal immigrants.
My point is that you can tell illegal immigrants to "get out" all you want, but they won't get out just because you told them to. And if you deport them, they will go right back to the US, to the job that's awaiting them there. They will always go back as long as jobs are awaiting them. I would like to see which laws targeting employers of illegal immigrants Arizona is enforcing right now. How many employers has Arizona put in prison and fined for hiring illegal immigrants?
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My point is that you can tell illegal immigrants to "get out" all you want, but they won't get out just because you told them to. And if you deport them, they will go right back to the US, to the job that's awaiting them there. They will always go back as long as jobs are awaiting them. I would like to see which laws targeting employers of illegal immigrants Arizona is enforcing right now. How many employers has Arizona put in prison and fined for hiring illegal immigrants?
What do you plan to do with the problems ive mentioned in targeting employers loco?
you seem to think that only targeting employers will solve this problem?
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What do you plan to do with the problems ive mentioned in targeting employers loco?
You created a whole thread with my name on it just to discuss this and then you abandoned the discussion and ignored my points.
you seem to think that only targeting employers will solve this problem?
I never said that.
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My point is that you can tell illegal immigrants to "get out" all you want, but they won't get out just because you told them to. And if you deport them, they will go right back to the US, to the job that's awaiting them there. They will always go back as long as jobs are awaiting them. I would like to see which laws targeting employers of illegal immigrants Arizona is enforcing right now. How many employers has Arizona put in prison and fined for hiring illegal immigrants?
Why do you keep ignoring the "cutting off public handouts" angle of the argument? As long as there are welfare programs available to illegals.... do you really think they care if they hae a job here or not?
As 3 said, the job is nothing but gravy. The REAL payout is in that food stamp, section 8, WIC, etc. check.
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Why do you keep ignoring the "cutting off public handouts" angle of the argument? As long as there are welfare programs available to illegals.... do you really think they care if they hae a job here or not?
As 3 said, the job is nothing but gravy. The REAL payout is in that food stamp, section 8, WIC, etc. check.
Because his entire argument revolves around painting illegals as the victims and the businesses giving them the jobs as the villains. Acknowledging that they also come here to suck the benefit system dry runs counterintuitive to the point he's trying to make.
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I would put ICE officers at schools, hospitals, jails, courts, police stations, etc.
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Why do you keep ignoring the "cutting off public handouts" angle of the argument? As long as there are welfare programs available to illegals.... do you really think they care if they hae a job here or not?
As 3 said, the job is nothing but gravy. The REAL payout is in that food stamp, section 8, WIC, etc. check.
I'm not. By all means, cut off public handouts to illegal immigrants. For that matter cut off public handouts to everybody. All they do is breed laziness. I believe in helping the less fortunate, and I do it myself, but it should be voluntary and not forced on you through taxes.
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Because his entire argument revolves around painting illegals as the victims and the businesses giving them the jobs as the villains. Acknowledging that they also come here to suck the benefit system dry runs counterintuitive to the point he's trying to make.
No, I am not painting illegals as the victims. They are guilty too. But I do paint Americans who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and the government too, as the root of the problem. You paint Americans who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and even smuggle them into the US as the victims.
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I would put ICE officers at schools, hospitals, jails, courts, police stations, etc.
I thought one of the complaints is that ICE keeps detaining illegal immigrants, then releasing them instead of deporting them.
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I thought one of the complaints is that ICE keeps detaining illegal immigrants, then releasing them instead of deporting them.
I would train soldiers coming home from Iraq to be ICE agents to do that.
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My point is that you can tell illegal immigrants to "get out" all you want, but they won't get out just because you told them to. And if you deport them, they will go right back to the US, to the job that's awaiting them there. They will always go back as long as jobs are awaiting them. I would like to see which laws targeting employers of illegal immigrants Arizona is enforcing right now. How many employers has Arizona put in prison and fined for hiring illegal immigrants?
I agree we need to crack down on employers who hire illegals. We also need to better secure our borders to stop illegals from getting in. We need to deport illegals who get through the borders.
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I agree we need to crack down on employers who hire illegals. We also need to better secure our borders to stop illegals from getting in. We need to deport illegals who get through the borders.
Yeah.... and that's a pipe dream. I don't see it happening short of a revolt. I hope AZ keeps pushing it and other states get encouraged by their example.
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Yeah.... and that's a pipe dream. I don't see it happening short of a revolt. I hope AZ keeps pushing it and other states get encouraged by their example.
What's a real shame is you are right that it's a pipe dream.