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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: elvis on August 05, 2010, 12:26:53 AM
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Guys. I am confused.
The problem: I'm limp (even with a cialis)
The cycle. Almost 5 months on enanthate at 500mgs week. Was 750.
Also now on 500 mgs cypionate.
Some EQ, prop, and recently winni and a liquid form of anavar (ox50)
I felt a bit fucked up all of a sudden about a week ago so I started arimidex and nolva 20 mgs ed. 50 mgs ed of clomid. It has been a week and I'm not feeling much change. Any suggestions???
It
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You're probably using UG shit that's why.
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Most of the gear is ug at the moment. Started off with pharmaceutical, u have a good point. But now how do I solve the issue at hand?
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pun intended?
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I get a kick out of how the members on this site are so stuck on UG. There are a lot of great UG products out there. UG gear would have absolutely nothing to do with this problem. If the AI's/serms were UG and not dosed correct then that may be a problem. If the AI's/serms are dosed correct maybe it's just time to come off for a while, or lower the dose. Whats the EQ dose? Hows the diet, and water intake? Are you getting your sleep? Its only been a week so keep up on the AI's for a bit longer. Also what are the doses on the AI/SERM?
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Eq was 300mg, I was taking 400 ew split into 2 doses
Diet has been clean. I went from 245lbs @17.3% body fat to 236 @ 12% bf in a 3 month period and did zero cardio So diet and product r working well together. That was last checked a month ago.
I could always use a bit more h20 and I don't get much sleep.
I'm not sure if I should go off or go up on dosage.
U asked about the ai/serm, I understand what ai is but what is the serm?
20 mg nolva. 50 mg clomid I'm out of arimidex. Waiting for more.
My
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I get a kick out of how the members on this site are so stuck on UG. There are a lot of great UG products out there. UG gear would have absolutely nothing to do with this problem. If the AI's/serms were UG and not dosed correct then that may be a problem. If the AI's/serms are dosed correct maybe it's just time to come off for a while, or lower the dose. Whats the EQ dose? Hows the diet, and water intake? Are you getting your sleep? Its only been a week so keep up on the AI's for a bit longer. Also what are the doses on the AI/SERM?
Yeah you're right UG gear with too much BA/BB, incorrect dosages, a little bacteria here or a little bacteria there, a little bit of lead or cadmium there a little here. Sure no problem. It wouldn't have any affect on how someone feels right? LOL. Or the fact that most UG arimidex and Letro is probably tamoxifen or clomiphene. But yeah.....otherwise UG gear doesn't matter.
I've done enough cycles with both UG and HG gear and I feel completely different when using the latter.
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Tamaxodex 20. By wildcat research labs.
The arimidex was same lab.
Should I toss in some hcg while I'm at it
I was taking 500 iu's maybe once a week for the last 3 or 4 weeks
I have a nice assortment of gear. Most of it UG and have made some significant gains and never an issue.
I have been cycling for many years and never encountered this problem. I'm going to have to think some of the gear is under dosed or just crap.
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Bro you need to make sure you know your source especially when it comes to nolvadex and arimidex..IMO you should stop taking everything and follow a good pct to get your levels back to normal..
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Yeah you're right UG gear with too much BA/BB, incorrect dosages, a little bacteria here or a little bacteria there, a little bit of lead or cadmium there a little here. Sure no problem. It wouldn't have any affect on how someone feels right? LOL. Or the fact that most UG arimidex and Letro is probably tamoxifen or clomiphene. But yeah.....otherwise UG gear doesn't matter.
I've done enough cycles with both UG and HG gear and I feel completely different when using the latter.
So thats going to make your dick limp Huh?
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Lmaoo^^^ uh there's plenty of good ugl's the problem is every ass hole buys the first thing available to them and wonders why they have problems with It and blames It on the fact its an ugl...now i'm all about using hG gear but as long as you do some homework Your chances of having problems are Alot smaller...and besides who makes human grade mast, tren, eq?? no One! gotta use some ug gear once in a while!! just know Your source and the product before you use It!!
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Guys. I am confused.
The problem: I'm limp (even with a cialis)
The cycle. Almost 5 months on enanthate at 500mgs week. Was 750.
Also now on 500 mgs cypionate.
Some EQ, prop, and recently winni and a liquid form of anavar (ox50)
I felt a bit fucked up all of a sudden about a week ago so I started arimidex and nolva 20 mgs ed. 50 mgs ed of clomid. It has been a week and I'm not feeling much change. Any suggestions???
It
That is way too many Estrogen controllers. Drop the clomid and nolva and use the adex. also the cycle seems big "cyp + enth and some EQ, prop, winni and anavar????" My God! Thats 3 different test esters! Too much test will ruin your libido too, zero estrogen and tons of test equal limp dick and no drive. i experience the same thing on big cycles.
Drop the test to 250-500mg a week and thats it with 10 mg nolva a day you should be feeling better in a few weeks.
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That is way too many Estrogen controllers. Drop the clomid and nolva and use the adex. also the cycle seems big "cyp + enth and some EQ, prop, winni and anavar????" My God! Thats 3 different test esters! Too much test will ruin your libido too, zero estrogen and tons of test equal limp dick and no drive. i experience the same thing on big cycles.
Drop the test to 250-500mg a week and thats it with 10 mg nolva a day you should be feeling better in a few weeks.
I'd go with this :)
Its finding the balance that is correct "for you" Elvis but L2H's advice is a great starting point imo.
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Guys, thank you.
I did drop other gear. I changed to another brand of test and already feel the diff.
Thanks again. Very helpful.
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That is way too many Estrogen controllers. Drop the clomid and nolva and use the adex. also the cycle seems big "cyp + enth and some EQ, prop, winni and anavar????" My God! Thats 3 different test esters! Too much test will ruin your libido too, zero estrogen and tons of test equal limp dick and no drive. i experience the same thing on big cycles.
Drop the test to 250-500mg a week and thats it with 10 mg nolva a day you should be feeling better in a few weeks.
\
x10 completely agree
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Yeah you're right UG gear with too much BA/BB, incorrect dosages, a little bacteria here or a little bacteria there, a little bit of lead or cadmium there a little here. Sure no problem. It wouldn't have any affect on how someone feels right? LOL. Or the fact that most UG arimidex and Letro is probably tamoxifen or clomiphene. But yeah.....otherwise UG gear doesn't matter.
I've done enough cycles with both UG and HG gear and I feel completely different when using the latter.
All valid arguments but this is more of a tangent than appreciable advice. I agree that HG is the way to go but it's the compounds he's running IMO and not so much the quality of his gear. I would also agree that just going on some HG test and cutting out all the other steroids, SERMs and AIs would be a good place to start too.
When this happens to me my immediate thought is to bang back a fuckload of test but in all honesty, it's probably best to fall back on a few hundred mgs/ew and just ride it out. Some Cialis or Viagra is helpful if you're on the prowl or have a long term relationship that you don't want to toss on the rocks, but just use it sparingly and as needed. I usually find that I encounter some scares every now and again, but when it comes down to business I always rise to the occasion and fuck like a champ.
I've only ever had 1 time where I couldn't get hard and my gf was too angry to bang. After that I was harder than a diamond in an ice storm with a pissed off woman that was in NO mood to get down and dirty. Be careful when playing with fire. :'(
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How about some hcg? Bring up my natural production.
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You said you felt a bit "fucked" up, can you comment specifically what was wrong? or was it just the limp issue?
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How about some hcg? Bring up my natural production.
Personally I love HCG on cycle. If you want to keep your balls healthy and recover quicker HCG is a must IMO.
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4th when you transition into post cycle while using hcg on cycle, should you stop the hcg with your last shot of test enanthate? Or could you run hcg for a week after ur last shot?
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4th when you transition into post cycle while using hcg on cycle, should you stop the hcg with your last shot of test enanthate? Or could you run hcg for a week after ur last shot?
Stop the HCG 4 days prior to PCT.
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4th, when using hcg during a cycle, how long of a duration would u use it and at what dose?
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So thats going to make your dick limp Huh?
If you get what you think is ug eq but is actually ug deca yep! Happens A LOT!
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4th, so you would take hcg with your last shot of test and then start post cycle...or do you run your hcg after your last shot
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If you get what you think is ug eq but is actually ug deca yep! Happens A LOT!
Well in this case you would be using a pretty worthless UG right! Doesn't mean all UG's do this. Trust me Ive run enough Deca and EQ to tell the difference. Almost like saying I'm never using HG again because 90% of the amps seen out there are fake.
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4th, when using hcg during a cycle, how long of a duration would u use it and at what dose?
From first administration of hormones until 4 days prior to starting PCT. Studies show that 500ie e3d is the optimal dose.
4th, so you would take hcg with your last shot of test and then start post cycle...or do you run your hcg after your last shot
Continue the HCG, stopping 4 days prior to PCT.
Here is an interesting article on Dr. John Crislers HCG protocol:
Interesting read on HCG administration. John Crisler is a leading authority on TRT. I realize this is for TRT, but the theory is the same while running HCG on cycle as well.:
AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL
By John Crisler, DO
In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:
Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.
So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.
But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.
In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).
I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.
Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.
While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.
Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and All Things Male - Center for Men's Health clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.
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So your saying a week after my last shot of test (thursday)...i should take two more shots of hcg on monday and thursday the week after? At the same dose if been running this whole time? And 4 days later start my clomid and nolva?
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Start your PCT 2 weeks after the cycle unless you are using nandralone, or EQ, just make sure to stop the HCG at least 4 days prior to PCT.
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What im asking is should i up my hcg dose after im done taking test? Or should i run it at 300ius on monday and thursday like im doing now even after my last shot until i start clomid and nolva?
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If you get what you think is ug eq but is actually ug deca yep! Happens A LOT!
I wasn't thinking outside the box. That's a very valid point and I completely forgot about that. That'd fucking suck if that's what happened too...
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What im asking is should i up my hcg dose after im done taking test? Or should i run it at 300ius on monday and thursday like im doing now even after my last shot until i start clomid and nolva?
Well personally I bump the last two shots up to 1500iu just to be sure everything is working to full effect before signing off of the HCG. Is it extremely important to do this? I dont know, but it seemed to work for me, when I was doing PCT. Kind of the same effect of running HCG after your cycle and before PCT.
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Thanks brother
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4th, great article on hcg.
Thanks
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Thanks brother
Anytime my friend.
4th, great article on hcg.
Thanks
Glad you liked it. Crisler is an authority on TRT.