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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: kcballer on August 20, 2010, 12:49:07 PM
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This is from a comedy site Cracked.com. I'm sure some of you have read various articles from them. Here is one that is unusual for this site but highly entertaining -
I don’t usually write about politics. It’s important, but something I want no part of – kind of like a raw sewage treatment facility. But frankly, I haven’t been this upset in a long time. And it’s due to the logic-hating, herd-mentality rhetoric that some have been flinging in opposition to the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque.” For the uninitiated, there are plans to construct an Islamic Community center in lower Manhattan. And, of course, lower Manhattan is where the World Trade Center stood before terrorists destroyed it, thereby murdering 3,000 Americans. I was working in New York City at the time. As was my father. As was my pregnant wife. I remember the day well. And the days that followed. I think most of all, I remember standing on the Staten Island Ferry, coming home with 200 other silent, reverent New Yorkers of every age, race, and religion, as we watched our city still smoldering a full week later. And it is with this backdrop that I can say to every politician spouting off and opposing the construction of this Islamic community center: “Shut up. Go away. You hate America.”
I’m talking about people like professional political tumor, Newt Gingrich, and future worst President ever, Sarah Palin, who have both slammed supporters of the Islamic community center with rhetoric so flawed, I’m afraid even linking to it might impair your computer’s higher functioning circuits. But it’s not just them. Due to the wave of misinformation being spread, apparently 68% of Americans also oppose the mosque.
How did this happen? Well, basically a complacent or a complicit media helped perpetuate three ideas that are either outright lies or intellectually dishonest arguments designed to bring out the very worst in all of us. And as you continue to hear them–and you will–take out this column which you will have already printed and laminated, and recite thusly:
#1 It's Not At Ground Zero
The proposed structure is not on the hallowed ground of the former World Trade Center. It’s at an abandoned and private building blocks away that used to be the Burlington Coat Factory. That means that if every one of the “g’s” that Sarah Palin drops when she’s talkin’ folksy were 10 by10 feet large, you could still stack over 120 of them from Ground Zero to this community center. Easy.
That sort of makes all the difference, doesn’t it? I know, when I first heard they were building a mosque at Ground Zero, I literally said, “What the fuck.” Like out loud and everything. I didn’t even pull a “WTF” despite years of writing for the Internet. That’s because for the last nine years, we New Yorkers have listened to countless proposals and plans and ideas of how to best rebuild the area while honoring the memories of those who died. And suddenly it seemed we were being told, “Yep, it’s all decided. Mosque. We want a mosque here. Just feels right.”
So yeah, of course, no one was on board. That just made no sense. What happened to that proposed waterfall and wall of names? Nothing happened. Because no one was ever building a mosque on that site. It’s just a lie that was told to you by people who wanted you to be afraid, upset, and hurt. People who wanted to manipulate your tender emotions to inspire contempt for the government. It’s about as intellectually dishonest as manipulating debate footage to make it appear that “Drill, baby, drill” is Sarah Palin’s stance on partial birth abortions. It’s just wrong.
And to those who say that any location in lower Manhattan is too close for a Muslim structure, let me remind you that right now, in the shadow of what would be the former World Trade Center, there’s a Halal Meat Hot Truck with a multi-denominational line that wraps around my building every day at lunch time. And I’m positive that’s owned by a Muslim. And I’ve even suffered at his hands. (Spoiler alert: avoid the goat rhoti). Should he move a few more blocks away too? Of course, not. That would just be silly, right? Is it different? Why? Because mosques are religious and the 911 terrorists perverted Islam into something violent and hateful? Guess what? Those knights did the same thing to Christianity for the 300 years of the Crusades, and no one’s saying that churches shouldn’t be built anywhere in … Europe.
#2 It's Not Strictly A Mosque
A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you don’t call St. Mary’s Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you? Well, maybe you do. You read about politics on the Internet from a guy who claims not to write about politics, so maybe you’re functionally illiterate. But the point is, you shouldn’t.
But “Islamic Community Center open to the public” doesn’t have the same ability to scare people the way “mosque” does. I mean, you hear “mosque” you think mosquito, you think STING! You hear “mosque” you think “mask,” you think DECEPTION! You hear “community center” you think “OK. One more place I’ll never go.” So, yeah, clearly the decision was made by those who hate you to call this the “Ground Zero Mosque” even though it’s not at Ground Zero and not technically a mosque. Why are we still discussing this? Why haven’t you already asked Sarah Palin if she’s the devil on her Twitter account? Oh, that’s right. Because the devil is supposed to be good at lying.
#3 You Can't Simultaneously Acknowledge A Right And Insist That Your Government Suppress It
But the real reason I’m writing is not just because of people like Sarah Palin, but because of shameful, spineless panderers like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Here’s a statement from each of them designed to give the appearance of being tolerant while adhering to good old-fashioned common sense values:
From Sarah Palin’s Twitter Feed:
“We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?”
And from Harry Reid’s spokesperson:
While respecting that Muslims have a First Amendment right to religious freedom, Reid “thinks this mosque should be built some place else,” his spokesman Jim Manley said Monday.
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.
You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.
The Burlington Coat factory is private property. Those who want to build on it are private citizens. They are violating no law in wanting to build a community center. Under what authority do you propose we stop them? There is no “unless you’re a Muslim within X yards of a national tragedy exception” to the free exercise of religion. Do the Gingrichs and Palins and Reids want to start a precedent where you can compel people not to exercise the freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution provided enough people don’t like you?
And what are we saying to Muslims? That if they were good Americans they would willingly give up their rights? I can’t think of anything less American than that? This is America. We do what we want. And all you have to do to have that right is be a citizen here. And if you’re a traitor, well then we will prosecute you for treason and penalize you for taking up arms against the greatest country in the world, but we will NOT start curtailing your freedoms based on mere speculation fueled by lies about what you’re building and where you’re building it.
In the days following 911 it was very popular to say that we couldn’t do anything differently in America or “the terrorists would win.” We can’t stop driving gas guzzling cars. We can’t stop supporting dictators in other parts of the world for financial or political gain. We can’t vote for a Democrat. Most of that was rhetoric. Some of it was probably true. But one thing is definitely true: if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I don’t want to see that. Because unlike those with power and influence who would lie to you, I love America.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense/ (http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense/)
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1. The landing gear of the plane hit threw two stories of this building, so yes it is ground zero.
2. No one is insisting the govt violent their rights. People are asking them to voluntarily move it.
What a nonsensical article full of strawman bs.
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i bet the dust from the buildings went a 1/2 mile so is that all ground zero ???
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1. The landing gear of the plane hit threw two stories of this building, so yes it is ground zero.
2. No one is insisting the govt violent their rights. People are asking them to voluntarily move it.
What a nonsensical article full of strawman bs.
And why should they give up their right to exercise their freedom? Is freedom not what we went to war over? If we can't have freedom for our own citizens then what good are we as a beacon of freedom to the world?
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And why should they give up their right to exercise their freedom? Is freedom not what we went to war over? If we can't have freedom for our own citizens then what good are we as a beacon of freedom to the world?
Fine, I hope you join my in the exercise of my first amendment right to walk up to obama in front of his kids and call him a lazy N%^& who is a failure and will go down as one of the worst potus ever.
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Fine, I hope you join my in the exercise of my first amendment right to walk up to obama in front of his kids and call him a lazy N%^& who is a failure and will go down as one of the worst potus ever.
Go right ahead. It would be quite funny to see you get shot cause you're dumb enough to carry while in the president's personal space.
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Go right ahead. It would be quite funny to see you get shot cause you're dumb enough to carry while in the president's personal space.
Using your anaolgy - it will be funny when this stupid disgrace gets blown to smitherines by a McVeigh copycat because this imam is dumb enough to knowingly provoke and piss on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead at the hands of muslim terrorists who committed their act in the name of islam and were funded by radical muslim clerics in SA.
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Cliffs notes please...that shit is way too long (no homo)
by the way...remember some asshole was like "Clips Notes"...hahahahah ok that was random
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Using your anaolgy - it will be funny when this stupid disgrace gets blown to smitherines by a McVeigh copycat because this imam is dumb enough to knowingly provoke and piss on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead at the hands of muslim terrorists who committed their act in the name of islam and were funded by radical muslim clerics in SA.
Sounds to me like you want to be that guy. So go ahead hero. You have more in common with fundamentalists than with those who love freedom.
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1. The landing gear of the plane hit threw two stories of this building, so yes it is ground zero.
2. No one is insisting the govt violent their rights. People are asking them to voluntarily move it.
What a nonsensical article full of strawman bs.
It's not ground zero ::)
Many who are against it wishes the government would violate their rights.
The builders of this Muslin CC aren't going to move it.
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The things 333 said are correct, other things to remember:
*There's not a Muslim population living in Lower Manhattan significant enough to even build a mosque hut
*They refuse to show where funding is coming from, guess what, that is a violation of the law and beyond suspicious. If they are peace loving, hand holding, give me a hug and a kiss Muslims, then they should have no problem talking about the funding.
*From the article, the author talks about how the 911 hijackers perverted and twisted a peaceful religion...no they didn't, they carried out their religion in the exact way they are supposed to, Islamic law to the fullest extent, the violence and killing, that is true Islam, it's the so called "Peaceful" Muslims who have perverted their religion and most of them are only lying about the peace part any way.
I swear, it blows my mind, I mean that, it literally blows my mind how so many people live in a fantasy world...I seriously think many people think we're all living in Mr. Rogers Neighborhood of Make Believe.
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I disagree, the Mosque is NOT being built on Ground Zero. (but it's close enough)
When does a religious population in a given area become prerequisite for building a church?
If showing where the funding is coming from a violation of law why hasn't something been filed by a lawyer to find out where its coming from? Until then the against the law thing is BS.
*From the article, the author talks about how the 911 hijackers perverted and twisted a peaceful religion...no they didn't, they carried out their religion in the exact way they are supposed to, Islamic law to the fullest extent, the violence and killing, that is true Islam, it's the so called "Peaceful" Muslims who have perverted their religion and most of them are only lying about the peace part any way.
Any and all religions can be twisted and used to manipulate people. It has gone on since the beginning of time and is nothing new. The difference is whether of not a person chooses to allow themselves to be manipulated by it or are intelligent enough to see it.
The 9/11 hijackers were nut jobs. No doubt. And many of the Muslims in the rural areas of the ME are products of religious manipulation to the extend of creating a near 13th century fanatical culture. What's been going on since then is a campaign to manipulate people into believing that "most" Muslims are lying about wanting peace and other incorrect stereotypes. This is want happens in a cultural war. The worst stories, examples of what happens in large populations of groups of people. Most of what I've been hearing sounds like Nazi propaganda in the 1930's. Frankly, its disappointing.
The Mosque shouldn't be built there for the simple reason that 3000 people died in its name as a result of a cowardly terrorist act(s).
The people who are to blame are people in NYC who have given the ok.
Start with Bloomberg.
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It's apparently 500 feet from GZ? That's essentially at GZ, particularly with a 13 story building.
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It's apparently 500 feet from GZ? That's essentially at GZ, particularly with a 13 story building.
Essentially I agree, but its not GZ. GZ is where the buildings stood. For me, the distinction is clear. If they were building it directly on the site where the WTC's stood it would far far far more an outrage and blatant symbolism than where's its being proposed. Because of this distinction to say it's being built on GZ is very inaccurate. What it is, (to say its being built on GZ) is blatant propaganda and lots of people are falling for it. Disappointing.
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Essentially I agree, but its not GZ. GZ is where the buildings stood. For me, the distinction is clear. If they were building it directly on the site where the WTC's stood it would far far far more an outrage and blatant symbolism than where's its being proposed. Because of this distinction to say it's being built on GZ is very inaccurate. What it is, (to say its being built on GZ) is blatant propaganda and lots of people are falling for it. Disappointing.
It's a distinction without much of a difference. GZ is where the buildings stood, where they collapsed, other buildings that were affected, not just where the planes hit.
I don't really consider it propaganda. Calling it GZ, or 500 feet from GZ, doesn't change the analysis. At least not for me.
I agree the outrage would be greater if the mosque was right on top of the old WTC.
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how many feet is the cutoff?. 501?
slippery slope...
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Essentially I agree, but its not GZ. GZ is where the buildings stood. For me, the distinction is clear. If they were building it directly on the site where the WTC's stood it would far far far more an outrage and blatant symbolism than where's its being proposed. Because of this distinction to say it's being built on GZ is very inaccurate. What it is, (to say its being built on GZ) is blatant propaganda and lots of people are falling for it. Disappointing.
See, that's just not possible as NO ONE CAN BUILD THERE. That's the spinster bullshit and you know it. It's not an open field where anyone can pop in and build something. The other buildings around there are already owned. What they are doing is building as close to GZ as they possible can get it.
A piece of landing gear from one of the planes damaged 3 floors of the building they want to build it in so yes, I'd say that it's directly linked to 9/11 and Ground Zero. And no, it's not inaccurate to say that it's being built on GZ. In-fact, the Muslim leading the fucking project has been calling it the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.
how many feet is the cutoff?. 501?
slippery slope...
Ahh, more 240 spin. The cut off is that a piece of landing gear fell through 3 floors of that building.
And can someone tell me why Imam Rauf, the man helping to lead the charge on this mosque, has spent the last 6 months calling it the Ground Zero mosque? ::)
But hey, I suppose you guys are more in the know than the man in charge of building this mosque (just kidding, 240 is brain-dead on this issue and nothing more than a spinster shill).
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so seriously, if it was 30 feet from the WTC tower, but no wheel hit it, then it would be cool?
Or if it was 2000 feet and some debrits hit it, it's not cool?
This is what I'm talking about. It's pretty tricky when trying to legislate what is right/wrong. Don't get me wrong - if they're breaking the law or training bad guys, put them in prison for life, i'm not defending anything that works against the USA.
But once we give the govt to start playing these technical games, it's only a few years until it's affecting us too
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so seriously, if it was 30 feet from the WTC tower, but no wheel hit it, then it would be cool?
Or if it was 2000 feet and some debrits hit it, it's not cool?
This is what I'm talking about. It's pretty tricky when trying to legislate what is right/wrong. Don't get me wrong - if they're breaking the law or training bad guys, put them in prison for life, i'm not defending anything that works against the USA.
But once we give the govt to start playing these technical games, it's only a few years until it's affecting us too
We shouldnt even have to have this discussion if the pofs TAXPAYER FUNDED Imam who claims to want to build bridges and heal , etc etc, would move the damn thing or at least make a few decent gestures towards the families such as possibly include some of their ideas in this thing.
But no, this vile scumbag and his hag of wife are forcing the issue because of their insistence of stamping on peoples' sensibilities of the fact that 3,000 people share that very area as a grave site and burial place by devotees of islama weho committed the asct in its name along with the funding and approval by many muslims.
So stop the nonsense 240, its getting very stale.
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It's a distinction without much of a difference. GZ is where the buildings stood, where they collapsed, other buildings that were affected, not just where the planes hit.
I don't really consider it propaganda. Calling it GZ, or 500 feet from GZ, doesn't change the analysis. At least not for me.
I agree the outrage would be greater if the mosque was right on top of the old WTC.
that's the distinction.
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We shouldnt even have to have this discussion if the pofs TAXPAYER FUNDED Imam who claims to want to build bridges and heal , etc etc, would move the damn thing or at least make a few decent gestures towards the families such as possibly include some of their ideas in this thing.
But no, this vile scumbag and his hag of wife are forcing the issue because of their insistence of stamping on peoples' sensibilities of the fact that 3,000 people share that very area as a grave site and burial place by devotees of islama weho committed the asct in its name along with the funding and approval by many muslims.
So stop the nonsense 240, its getting very stale.
These people are clueless to how NYC is. They think that it's possible to get closer than 500 feet on building this mosque. Shows how utterly clueless they are.
Even arguing that because it's not right on top of the WTC (Hint: nothing is getting built there) is beyond the realm of stupidity.
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that's the distinction.
Did you see my photo? ? ? ? ? ?
This entire area is literally a burial ground for 3000 people at the hands of muslim slime who committed the act in the name of Islam.
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See, that's just not possible as NO ONE CAN BUILD THERE. That's the spinster bullshit and you know it. It's not an open field where anyone can pop in and build something. The other buildings around there are already owned. What they are doing is building as close to GZ as they possible can get it.
A piece of landing gear from one of the planes damaged 3 floors of the building they want to build it in so yes, I'd say that it's directly linked to 9/11 and Ground Zero. And no, it's not inaccurate to say that it's being built on GZ. In-fact, the Muslim leading the fucking project has been calling it the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.
What's not possible? What's spinster bullshit? I'll tell ya what spinster BS is, saying it's being built on GZ when its clearly not.
However, saying it's being built on one of the buildings damaged in 9/11 as a result of the attack is accurate.
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how many buildings were damaged by debris on 911?
I'm assuming hundreds... that pyroclastic shit cloud went 1/2 mile, didn't it?
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Did you see my photo? ? ? ? ? ?
This entire area is literally a burial ground for 3000 people at the hands of muslim slime who committed the act in the name of Islam.
Then shut down the whole island and make it memorial.
Sorry dude, I try and deal in real terms not blatant spinster propaganda crap. It's not GZ, get over it already.
What it is, is a building that was damaged as a result of 9/11, not GZ.
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We shouldnt even have to have this discussion if the pofs TAXPAYER FUNDED Imam who claims to want to build bridges and heal , etc etc, would move the damn thing or at least make a few decent gestures towards the families such as possibly include some of their ideas in this thing.
But no, this vile scumbag and his hag of wife are forcing the issue because of their insistence of stamping on peoples' sensibilities of the fact that 3,000 people share that very area as a grave site and burial place by devotees of islama weho committed the asct in its name along with the funding and approval by many muslims.
So stop the nonsense 240, its getting very stale.
I don't disagree with any of this, but the dam thing isn't being built on GZ, it's being built too close to GZ. However, this particular propaganda machine is showing just vulnerable some people are to emotional manipulation based on incorrect facts.
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Saying the Mosque is being built on GZ gets people riled up because they hear and process it literally. That's just how stupid some people are.
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I don't disagree with any of this, but the dam thing isn't being built on GZ, it's being built too close to GZ. However, this particular propaganda machine is showing just vulnerable some people are to emotional manipulation based on incorrect facts.
No, it's not. A piece of the landing gear fell through 3 floors of that build. It is directly linked to GZ.
Who are you to determine what is and isn't GZ? 500 feet away is more than close enough to be considered part of it, especially when taking into account the fact that the building was damaged by it. It as close to being directly on top of GZ as you can get for building something.
And seriously, the fucking guy building the mosque has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months. ::)
What a stupid fucking argument. And speaking of propaganda...
Saying the Mosque is being built on GZ gets people riled up because they hear and process it literally. That's just how stupid some people are.
Your argument is stupid because nothing can be built right on top of where the WTC stood (except the monument or w/e plans they have). What they can do is build as close as they can get (which is exactly what they are doing). Stop spewing your propaganda shit and hanging on your notion of what "GZ" is (it's not unreasonable to say that the building they plan to build in is part of GZ as it was damaged in the attacks).
You're just playing word games and trying to make an argument out of it. Sounds like propaganda to me. Even moreso when taking into account the fact that the man leading this mosque project has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months now. They know damn well what they're doing. You're just too much of a dhimmi to notice.
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Then shut down the whole island and make it memorial.
Sorry dude, I try and deal in real terms not blatant spinster propaganda crap. It's not GZ, get over it already.
What it is, is a building that was damaged as a result of 9/11, not GZ.
I am in this very area at least 4 times a week. You have no idea what you are talking about.
And again - my issue is the imam and his vile wife. I would not ban them or have the govt trample their rights. However, their insistence on this tells me everything I need to know about the true motivation behind this thing.
Those that think putting this there is no big deal really make me sick considering this is the burial ground of 3,000 AMERICANS who were murdered there.
Again - are local muslims pushing for this because they have no other mosques to pray in or accomodate them? No.
This is being pushed by foreigners and will be funded by money from Iran, SA, etc. I'm sure you are all peachy with the idea that you are a american citizen have to make more disclosures of where your deposit comes from to purchase a house than this Imam does as to how this thing is being paid for. Think about that.
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What's not possible? What's spinster bullshit? I'll tell ya what spinster BS is, saying it's being built on GZ when its clearly not.
However, saying it's being built on one of the buildings damaged in 9/11 as a result of the attack is accurate.
??? ??? ??? ???
If the building was damaged as a result of the langing gear slamming through two floors, inho that is just as much Ground Zero as where the building fell.
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??? ??? ??? ???
If the building was damaged as a result of the langing gear slamming through two floors, inho that is just as much Ground Zero as where the building fell.
It's just spin bullshit from the apologists. Usually coming from people who have never stepped foot in that area yet think they know what they're talking about.
Fact is that it's being built as close to where the WTC stood as humanly possible. In a building that was damaged by parts of the plane. By a man who advocates Sharia Law in the USA, refuses to denounce terrorism, is against interfaith dialogue and who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist-financing organizations and who has referred to it as the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.
How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile people up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque". Don't worry, I'm sure that will continue to go ignored just like any other valid point that shuts down these idiotic arguments.
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It's just spin bullshit from the apologists. Usually coming from people who have never stepped foot in that area yet think they know what they're talking about.
Fact is that it's being built as close to where the WTC stood as humanly possible. In a building that was damaged by parts of the plane. By a man who advocates Sharia Law in the USA, refuses to denounce terrorism, is against interfaith dialogue and who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist-financing organizations and who has referred to it as the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.
How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile people up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque". Don't worry, I'm sure that will continue to go ignored just like any other valid point that shuts down these idiotic arguments.
I read a story last night that a lot of damaging stuff is going to come out on this imam in the next feews pertaining to his sympathies with al Queada, Sharia, etc. I'll dig up the story.
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No, it's not. A piece of the landing gear fell through 3 floors of that build. It is directly linked to GZ.
Who are you to determine what is and isn't GZ? 500 feet away is more than close enough to be considered part of it, especially when taking into account the fact that the building was damaged by it. It as close to being directly on top of GZ as you can get for building something.
And seriously, the fucking guy building the mosque has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months. ::)
What a stupid fucking argument. And speaking of propaganda...
Your argument is stupid because nothing can be built right on top of where the WTC stood (except the monument or w/e plans they have). What they can do is build as close as they can get (which is exactly what they are doing). Stop spewing your propaganda shit and hanging on your notion of what "GZ" is (it's not unreasonable to say that the building they plan to build in is part of GZ as it was damaged in the attacks).
You're just playing word games and trying to make an argument out of it. Sounds like propaganda to me. Even moreso when taking into account the fact that the man leading this mosque project has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months now. They know damn well what they're doing. You're just too much of a dhimmi to notice.
No its not, you are the one that's being stupid here, you sound like a garden variety CT'er. If it was GZ, as you said, having a memorial or w/e being built on it, then the same rules would apply and or the city would have made EVERY building hit or damaged by 9/11 a memorial. Here's the facts: IT NOT ON GZ simple as that. AND it shouldn't be built on a building that was damaged by 9/11.
As for "word games".......... are you kidding me? That's what propaganda is, omitting facts using words such "Mosque being built on GZ" That's why we have "words" with meanings so BS won't be spun so easily.
And now we are bringing up the apologist card? Stop being such a tool, open your eyes.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
The Mosque shouldn't be built that close to GZ.
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No its not, you are the one that's being stupid here, you sound like a garden variety CT'er. If it was GZ, as you said, having a memorial or w/e being built on it, then the same rules would apply and or the city would have made EVERY building hit or damaged by 9/11 a memorial. Here's the facts: IT NOT ON GZ simple as that. AND it shouldn't be built on a building that was damaged by 9/11.
As for "word games".......... are you kidding me? That's what propaganda is, omitting facts using words such "Mosque being built on GZ" That's why we have "words" with meanings so BS won't be spun so easily.
And now we are bringing up the apologist card? Stop being such a tool, open your eyes.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
The Mosque shouldn't be built that close to GZ.
I am in this very area every week. How many times have you been to NYC since 911? I'm asking just to find out if you have ever been in this are of NYC.
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It's just spin bullshit from the apologists. Usually coming from people who have never stepped foot in that area yet think they know what they're talking about.
Fact is that it's being built as close to where the WTC stood as humanly possible. In a building that was damaged by parts of the plane. By a man who advocates Sharia Law in the USA, refuses to denounce terrorism, is against interfaith dialogue and who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist-financing organizations and who has referred to it as the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.
How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile people up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque". Don't worry, I'm sure that will continue to go ignored just like any other valid point that shuts down these idiotic arguments.
So because this fuck head, Iman says it's the GZ mosque that makes it so? Geez, use your brain much?
What if he said he pissing on Washington's grave in Bangkok would you fall for that too?
How about if he said BUSH helped plan 9/11?
It's bad enough all by itself that he's building a Muslim community center too close to GZ.
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No its not, you are the one that's being stupid here, you sound like a garden variety CT'er. If it was GZ, as you said, having a memorial or w/e being built on it, then the same rules would apply and or the city would have made EVERY building hit or damaged by 9/11 a memorial. Here's the facts: IT NOT ON GZ simple as that. AND it shouldn't be built on a building that was damaged by 9/11.
As for "word games".......... are you kidding me? That's what propaganda is, omitting facts using words such "Mosque being built on GZ" That's why we have "words" with meanings so BS won't be spun so easily.
And now we are bringing up the apologist card? Stop being such a tool, open your eyes.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
The Mosque shouldn't be built that close to GZ.
You are playing word games. You and I both know that you can't build DIRECTLY on top of the WTC. So that means what? That this mosque isn't being built as a shrine to Islamic supremacism because it happens to be 500 feet away? No. They are building it as close to the WTC site as they can get. In a building that is directly linked to the attacks as it was damaged in the attacks. You're playing word games and you know it.
Not that it matters. Your entire argument is nullified by the fact that the guy heading up the mosque project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque" and has done so for months now.
I'll ask again, though. How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile others up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque"?
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So because this fuck head, Iman says it's the GZ mosque that makes it so? Geez, use your brain much?
What if he said he pissing on Washington's grave in Bangkok would you fall for that too?
How about if he said BUSH helped plan 9/11?
It's bad enough all by itself that he's building a Muslim community center too close to GZ.
If the guy heading the project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque", why should we not follow suit? Should we not acknowledge that? I think we should, as they know damn well what they're doing and why they're building it there. ::)
Him claiming Bush helped plan 9/11 wouldn't surprise me given his other statements.
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I am in this very area every week. How many times have you been to NYC since 911? I'm asking just to find out if you have ever been in this are of NYC.
No, would my being in NYC change the location of GZ?
Would I have to see it from your already angry at everything non libertarian eyes?
33333 its a simple but necessary distinction. The proposal is not to build a Mosque on GZ, but instead the proposal is to build a Muslim Community Center (which is far worse and hurtfully symbolic than a mosque) near GZ, 3 blocks from it.
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If the guy heading the project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque", why should we not follow suit? Should we not acknowledge that? I think we should, as they know damn well what they're doing and why they're building it there. ::)
Him claiming Bush helped plan 9/11 wouldn't surprise me given his other statements.
What many people don't understand is that Islam is not only a religion, but a political, social, and religious system unlike other religions.
This Imam is pursuing this Victory Mosque for political reasons, not religious reasons.
If he were a truly religious man seeking compassion, healing, etc, he would never insist on something like this.
My issue is with him and the backers of this, not the govt. since I acknowledge we are constrained by laws etc to permit this. But it is very dishonest to claim this is being pursued for any reason other than its direct proximity, connection, attachment, and historical significance to the whole 9/11 narrative as a whole.
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If the guy heading the project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque", why should we not follow suit? Should we not acknowledge that? I think we should, as they know damn well what they're doing and why they're building it there. ::)
Him claiming Bush helped plan 9/11 wouldn't surprise me given his other statements.
Why shouldn't we follow suit? Because he's incorrect. And i find it funny that the very guy's you demise (and so do i) seems to be a strong influence on how you define GZ. Funny.
What many people don't understand is that Islam is not only a religion, but a political, social, and religious system unlike other religions.
This Imam is pursuing this Victory Mosque for political reasons, not religious reasons.
If he were a truly religious man seeking compassion, healing, etc, he would never insist on something like this.
My issue is with him and the backers of this, not the govt. since I acknowledge we are constrained by laws etc to permit this. But it is very dishonest to claim this is being pursued for any reason other than its direct proximity, connection, attachment, and historical significance to the whole 9/11 narrative as a whole.
I agree.
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No, would my being in NYC change the location of GZ?
Would I have to see it from your already angry at everything non libertarian eyes?
33333 its a simple but necessary distinction. The proposal is not to build a Mosque on GZ, but instead the proposal is to build a Muslim Community Center (which is far worse and hurtfully symbolic than a mosque) near GZ, 3 blocks from it.
I asked because I know living here and being in this are my entire life how close this is and what the are is like. As for my anger - yes, I am beyond angry at this point over this Imam pursuing this.
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You are playing word games. You and I both know that you can't build DIRECTLY on top of the WTC. So that means what? That this mosque isn't being built as a shrine to Islamic supremacism because it happens to be 500 feet away? No. They are building it as close to the WTC site as they can get. In a building that is directly linked to the attacks as it was damaged in the attacks. You're playing word games and you know it.
Not that it matters. Your entire argument is nullified by the fact that the guy heading up the mosque project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque" and has done so for months now.
I'll ask again, though. How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile others up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque"?
I never knew that bastard determine GZ for you. Is that why you hate muslims? Because they have that much control over you sensibilities?
Its bad enough, its wrong enough, it warrants independent action enough.................a s it is.
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No, would my being in NYC change the location of GZ?
Would I have to see it from your already angry at everything non libertarian eyes?
33333 its a simple but necessary distinction. The proposal is not to build a Mosque on GZ, but instead the proposal is to build a Muslim Community Center (which is far worse and hurtfully symbolic than a mosque) near GZ, 3 blocks from it.
You just don't get it. It is not possible to build directly on top of what you perceive to be GZ. It is, however, possible to build as close to it as you can get (which is what they are doing). This does not change anything. It does not make it any less of a shrine to Islamic Supremacism because they don't get the satisfaction of building directly on top of it and instead have to go 500 feet down the street (the length of 2 yards, LOL).
You're just arguing semantics at this point.
If Imam Rauf refers to it as the Ground Zero mosque (which, in my book, is basically an admission that they're the building it as a shrine to Islamic supremacism), then we should as well.
Why shouldn't we follow suit? Because he's incorrect. And i find it funny that the very guy's you demise (and so do i) seems to be a strong influence on how you define GZ. Funny.
I agree.
It's pretty important. Because by them calling it that, they're all but admitting that they're putting it there because of GZ, specifically to be a monument to Islam's victory over us and that area. If they had referred to it as a "NYC Community Center" from day one and not "the Ground Zero mosque", then they would have more of argument. Ignoring that would be one of the dumbest things to do.
I never knew that bastard determine GZ for you. Is that why you hate muslims? Because they have that much control over you sensibilities?
Its bad enough, its wrong enough, it warrants independent action enough.................a s it is.
I don't hate Muslims. I hate the political and militaristic ideologies of Islam. They are two different things.
I never knew you determined GZ for me. GZ, for me, includes any building directly damaged in the attacks.
You keep playing your word games, though. The other thread I posted does a good job refuting that.
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Looks like they are already moving in.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/faithful_already_filling_the_house_w1wuBCF97KVeJYYwxvA7pI
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Looks like they are already moving in.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/faithful_already_filling_the_house_w1wuBCF97KVeJYYwxvA7pI
Smart move by those snakes. They've been praying in the streets and what not for a while now in order to make it look like they don't have any mosques (ignoring the 200+ in NYC alone).
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I have a question: Why is propaganda always "spewed"?
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Ozmo how exactly do you define "ground zero"?
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Using your anaolgy - it will be funny when this stupid disgrace gets blown to smitherines by a McVeigh copycat because this imam is dumb enough to knowingly provoke and piss on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead at the hands of muslim terrorists who committed their act in the name of islam and were funded by radical muslim clerics in SA.
You accuse this imam of "pissing on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead", by building a community centre designed to promote tolerance & cultural exchange, but aren't YOU the one who has vowed to desecrate christen that same location, that very same grave & burial site of 3,000 dead with pig's blood?
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You accuse this imam of "pissing on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead", by building a community centre designed to promote tolerance & cultural exchange, but aren't YOU the one who has vowed to desecrate christen that same location, that very same grave & burial site of 3,000 dead with pig's blood?
Its a victory shrine not a cultural diversity center.
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Its a victory shrine not a cultural diversity center.
How do you know that?
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Its a victory shrine not a cultural diversity center.
While I disagree with you, for the sake of argument, I won't refute or contest your assertion.
OK, so it is a victory shrine. Were the 911 attacks victorious? If so, let 'em build their damn victory shrine.
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While I disagree with you, for the sake of argument, I won't refute or contest your assertion.
OK, so it is a victory shrine. Were the 911 attacks victorious? If so, let 'em build their damn victory shrine.
f the world.
I live here, this thing is not going up. The locals are getting utterly pissed off and are not going to take these insults much longer from the Rauf's of the world.
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f the world.
I live here, this thing is not going up. The locals are getting utterly pissed off and are not going to take these insults much longer from the Rauf's of the world.
lol
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Ozmo how exactly do you define "ground zero"?
The area where the WTC's stood.
If it was any more than that then I think NYC needs to do what was done on Pearl, Hickman & Schofield where they left bullet holes in many of the buildings there, in a sense declaring them memorials.
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Who thinks that it's intellectually honest to call it a "victory mosque"?
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Who thinks that it's intellectually honest to call it a "victory mosque"?
The PM of Turkey.
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Who thinks that it's intellectually honest to call it a "victory mosque"?
Anyone who has done any reading on the habit of Muslims planting mosques on sites of conquest. They've done it all over the world. Why would this be any different?
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The area where the WTC's stood.
If it was any more than that then I think NYC needs to do what was done on Pearl, Hickman & Schofield where they left bullet holes in many of the buildings there, in a sense declaring them memorials.
Thanks. I think it's fair to define GZ as where the planes hit and the immediate surrounding areas that were damaged by the planes and the falling buildings.
I like the idea of treating it like Pearl Harbor.
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The PM of Turkey.
I was unaware that he attacked the US or had much weight to throw around in this decision. I start school again today, so maybe that will come up.