3 reasons the "Ground Zero Mosque" debate makes no sense

[OzmO]

We shouldnt even have to have this discussion if the pofs TAXPAYER FUNDED Imam who claims to want to build bridges and heal , etc etc, would move the damn thing or at least make a few decent gestures towards the families such as possibly include some of their ideas in this thing.  

But no, this vile scumbag and his hag of wife are forcing the issue because of their insistence of stamping on peoples' sensibilities of the fact that 3,000 people share that very area as a grave site and burial place by devotees of islama weho committed the asct in its name along with the funding and approval by many muslims.  

So stop the nonsense 240, its getting very stale.  

I don't disagree with any of this, but the dam thing isn't being built on GZ, it's being built too close to GZ.  However, this particular propaganda machine is showing just vulnerable some people are to emotional manipulation based on incorrect facts.

[OzmO]

Saying the Mosque is being built on GZ gets people riled up because they hear and process it literally.  That's just how stupid some people are. 

[Fury]

I don't disagree with any of this, but the dam thing isn't being built on GZ, it's being built too close to GZ.  However, this particular propaganda machine is showing just vulnerable some people are to emotional manipulation based on incorrect facts.

No, it's not. A piece of the landing gear fell through 3 floors of that build. It is directly linked to GZ.

Who are you to determine what is and isn't GZ? 500 feet away is more than close enough to be considered part of it, especially when taking into account the fact that the building was damaged by it. It as close to being directly on top of GZ as you can get for building something.

And seriously, the fucking guy building the mosque has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months.  

What a stupid fucking argument. And speaking of propaganda...

Saying the Mosque is being built on GZ gets people riled up because they hear and process it literally.  That's just how stupid some people are.  

Your argument is stupid because nothing can be built right on top of where the WTC stood (except the monument or w/e plans they have). What they can do is build as close as they can get (which is exactly what they are doing). Stop spewing your propaganda shit and hanging on your notion of what "GZ" is (it's not unreasonable to say that the building they plan to build in is part of GZ as it was damaged in the attacks).

You're just playing word games and trying to make an argument out of it. Sounds like propaganda to me. Even moreso when taking into account the fact that the man leading this mosque project has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months now. They know damn well what they're doing. You're just too much of a dhimmi to notice.

[Soul Crusher]

Then shut down the whole island and make it memorial.  

Sorry dude, I try and deal in real terms not blatant spinster propaganda crap.  It's not GZ, get over it already.

What it is, is a building that was damaged as a result of 9/11, not GZ.  

I am in this very area at least 4 times a week.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  

And again - my issue is the imam and his vile wife.  I would not ban them or have the govt trample their rights.  However, their insistence on this tells me everything I need to know about the true motivation behind this thing.  

Those that think putting this there is no big deal really make me sick considering this is the burial ground of 3,000 AMERICANS who were murdered there.  

Again - are local muslims pushing for this because they have no other mosques to pray in or accomodate them?  No.  

This is being pushed by foreigners and will be funded by money from Iran, SA, etc.  I'm sure you are all peachy with the idea that you are a american citizen have to make more disclosures of where your deposit comes from to purchase a house than this Imam does as to how this thing is being paid for.  Think about that.    

  

[Soul Crusher]

What's not possible?  What's spinster bullshit?  I'll tell ya what spinster BS is, saying it's being built on GZ when its clearly not.  

However, saying it's being built on one of the buildings damaged in 9/11 as a result of the attack is accurate.

       

If the building was damaged as a result of the langing gear slamming through two floors, inho that is just as much Ground Zero as where the building fell.  

[Fury]

     

If the building was damaged as a result of the langing gear slamming through two floors, inho that is just as much Ground Zero as where the building fell.  

It's just spin bullshit from the apologists. Usually coming from people who have never stepped foot in that area yet think they know what they're talking about.

Fact is that it's being built as close to where the WTC stood as humanly possible. In a building that was damaged by parts of the plane. By a man who advocates Sharia Law in the USA, refuses to denounce terrorism, is against interfaith dialogue and who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist-financing organizations and who has referred to it as the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.

How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile people up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque". Don't worry, I'm sure that will continue to go ignored just like any other valid point that shuts down these idiotic arguments.

[Soul Crusher]

It's just spin bullshit from the apologists. Usually coming from people who have never stepped foot in that area yet think they know what they're talking about.

Fact is that it's being built as close to where the WTC stood as humanly possible. In a building that was damaged by parts of the plane. By a man who advocates Sharia Law in the USA, refuses to denounce terrorism, is against interfaith dialogue and who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist-financing organizations and who has referred to it as the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.

How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile people up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque". Don't worry, I'm sure that will continue to go ignored just like any other valid point that shuts down these idiotic arguments.

I read a story last night that a lot of damaging stuff is going to come out on this imam in the next feews pertaining to his sympathies with al Queada, Sharia, etc.  I'll dig up the story. 

[OzmO]

No, it's not. A piece of the landing gear fell through 3 floors of that build. It is directly linked to GZ.

Who are you to determine what is and isn't GZ? 500 feet away is more than close enough to be considered part of it, especially when taking into account the fact that the building was damaged by it. It as close to being directly on top of GZ as you can get for building something.

And seriously, the fucking guy building the mosque has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months.  

What a stupid fucking argument. And speaking of propaganda...

Your argument is stupid because nothing can be built right on top of where the WTC stood (except the monument or w/e plans they have). What they can do is build as close as they can get (which is exactly what they are doing). Stop spewing your propaganda shit and hanging on your notion of what "GZ" is (it's not unreasonable to say that the building they plan to build in is part of GZ as it was damaged in the attacks).

You're just playing word games and trying to make an argument out of it. Sounds like propaganda to me. Even moreso when taking into account the fact that the man leading this mosque project has called it the "Ground Zero mosque" for months now. They know damn well what they're doing. You're just too much of a dhimmi to notice.

No its not, you are the one that's being stupid here, you sound like a garden variety CT'er.    If it was GZ, as you said, having a memorial or w/e being built on it, then the same rules would apply and or the city would have made EVERY building hit or damaged by 9/11 a memorial.  Here's the facts:  IT NOT ON GZ simple as that.  AND it shouldn't be built on a building that was damaged by 9/11.

As for "word games"..........  are you kidding me?  That's what propaganda is, omitting facts using words such "Mosque being built on GZ"   That's why we have "words" with meanings so BS won't be spun so easily.  

And now we are bringing up the apologist card?  Stop being such a tool, open your eyes.

I agree.
I agree.
I agree.

The Mosque shouldn't be built that close to GZ.

[Soul Crusher]

No its not, you are the one that's being stupid here, you sound like a garden variety CT'er.    If it was GZ, as you said, having a memorial or w/e being built on it, then the same rules would apply and or the city would have made EVERY building hit or damaged by 9/11 a memorial.  Here's the facts:  IT NOT ON GZ simple as that.  AND it shouldn't be built on a building that was damaged by 9/11.

As for "word games"..........  are you kidding me?  That's what propaganda is, omitting facts using words such "Mosque being built on GZ"   That's why we have "words" with meanings so BS won't be spun so easily.  

And now we are bringing up the apologist card?  Stop being such a tool, open your eyes.

I agree.
I agree.
I agree.

The Mosque shouldn't be built that close to GZ.

I am in this very area every week.  How many times have you been to NYC since 911?  I'm asking just to find out if you have ever been in this are of NYC. 

[OzmO]

It's just spin bullshit from the apologists. Usually coming from people who have never stepped foot in that area yet think they know what they're talking about.

Fact is that it's being built as close to where the WTC stood as humanly possible. In a building that was damaged by parts of the plane. By a man who advocates Sharia Law in the USA, refuses to denounce terrorism, is against interfaith dialogue and who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist-financing organizations and who has referred to it as the "Ground Zero mosque" for MONTHS.

How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile people up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque". Don't worry, I'm sure that will continue to go ignored just like any other valid point that shuts down these idiotic arguments.

So because this fuck head, Iman says it's the GZ mosque that makes it so?  Geez, use your brain much?

What if he said he pissing on Washington's grave in Bangkok would you fall for that too?

How about if he said BUSH helped plan 9/11?

It's bad enough all by itself that he's building a Muslim community center too close to GZ.  

[Fury]

No its not, you are the one that's being stupid here, you sound like a garden variety CT'er.    If it was GZ, as you said, having a memorial or w/e being built on it, then the same rules would apply and or the city would have made EVERY building hit or damaged by 9/11 a memorial.  Here's the facts:  IT NOT ON GZ simple as that.  AND it shouldn't be built on a building that was damaged by 9/11.

As for "word games"..........  are you kidding me?  That's what propaganda is, omitting facts using words such "Mosque being built on GZ"   That's why we have "words" with meanings so BS won't be spun so easily.  

And now we are bringing up the apologist card?  Stop being such a tool, open your eyes.

I agree.
I agree.
I agree.

The Mosque shouldn't be built that close to GZ.

You are playing word games. You and I both know that you can't build DIRECTLY on top of the WTC. So that means what? That this mosque isn't being built as a shrine to Islamic supremacism because it happens to be 500 feet away? No. They are building it as close to the WTC site as they can get. In a building that is directly linked to the attacks as it was damaged in the attacks. You're playing word games and you know it.

Not that it matters. Your entire argument is nullified by the fact that the guy heading up the mosque project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque" and has done so for months now.

I'll ask again, though. How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile others up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque"?

[Fury]

So because this fuck head, Iman says it's the GZ mosque that makes it so?  Geez, use your brain much?

What if he said he pissing on Washington's grave in Bangkok would you fall for that too?

How about if he said BUSH helped plan 9/11?

It's bad enough all by itself that he's building a Muslim community center too close to GZ.  

If the guy heading the project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque", why should we not follow suit? Should we not acknowledge that? I think we should, as they know damn well what they're doing and why they're building it there.

Him claiming Bush helped plan 9/11 wouldn't surprise me given his other statements.

[OzmO]

I am in this very area every week.  How many times have you been to NYC since 911?  I'm asking just to find out if you have ever been in this are of NYC. 

No, would my being in NYC change the location of GZ?  

Would I have to see it from your already angry at everything non libertarian eyes?


33333  its a simple but necessary distinction.  The proposal is not to build a Mosque on GZ, but instead the proposal is to build a Muslim Community Center (which is far worse and hurtfully symbolic than a mosque) near GZ, 3 blocks from it.

[Soul Crusher]

If the guy heading the project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque", why should we not follow suit? Should we not acknowledge that? I think we should, as they know damn well what they're doing and why they're building it there.

Him claiming Bush helped plan 9/11 wouldn't surprise me given his other statements.

What many people don't understand is that Islam is not only a religion, but a political, social, and religious system unlike other religions.  

This Imam is pursuing this Victory Mosque for political reasons, not religious reasons.  

If he were a truly religious man seeking compassion, healing, etc, he would never insist on something like this.  

My issue is with him and the backers of this, not the govt. since I acknowledge we are constrained by laws etc to permit this.  But it is very dishonest to claim this is being pursued for any reason other than its direct proximity, connection, attachment, and historical significance to the whole 9/11 narrative as a whole.  

[OzmO]

If the guy heading the project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque", why should we not follow suit? Should we not acknowledge that? I think we should, as they know damn well what they're doing and why they're building it there.

Him claiming Bush helped plan 9/11 wouldn't surprise me given his other statements.

Why shouldn't we follow suit?  Because he's incorrect. And i find it funny that the very guy's you demise (and so do i) seems to be a strong influence on how you define GZ.  Funny.    

What many people don't understand is that Islam is not only a religion, but a political, social, and religious system unlike other religions. 

This Imam is pursuing this Victory Mosque for political reasons, not religious reasons. 

If he were a truly religious man seeking compassion, healing, etc, he would never insist on something like this. 

My issue is with him and the backers of this, not the govt. since I acknowledge we are constrained by laws etc to permit this.  But it is very dishonest to claim this is being pursued for any reason other than its direct proximity, connection, attachment, and historical significance to the whole 9/11 narrative as a whole. 

I agree.

[Soul Crusher]

No, would my being in NYC change the location of GZ?  

Would I have to see it from your already angry at everything non libertarian eyes?


33333  its a simple but necessary distinction.  The proposal is not to build a Mosque on GZ, but instead the proposal is to build a Muslim Community Center (which is far worse and hurtfully symbolic than a mosque) near GZ, 3 blocks from it.

I asked because I know living here and being in this are my entire life how close this is and what the are is like.    As for my anger - yes, I am beyond angry at this point over this Imam pursuing this.  

  

[OzmO]

You are playing word games. You and I both know that you can't build DIRECTLY on top of the WTC. So that means what? That this mosque isn't being built as a shrine to Islamic supremacism because it happens to be 500 feet away? No. They are building it as close to the WTC site as they can get. In a building that is directly linked to the attacks as it was damaged in the attacks. You're playing word games and you know it.

Not that it matters. Your entire argument is nullified by the fact that the guy heading up the mosque project calls it the "Ground Zero mosque" and has done so for months now.

I'll ask again, though. How can you even claim that people are saying it's being built on GZ to rile others up when the Muslim heading the project refers to it as the "Ground Zero mosque"?

I never knew that bastard determine GZ for you.  Is that why you hate muslims?  Because they have that much control over you sensibilities?  


Its bad enough, its wrong enough, it warrants independent action enough.................a s it is.

[Fury]

No, would my being in NYC change the location of GZ?  

Would I have to see it from your already angry at everything non libertarian eyes?


33333  its a simple but necessary distinction.  The proposal is not to build a Mosque on GZ, but instead the proposal is to build a Muslim Community Center (which is far worse and hurtfully symbolic than a mosque) near GZ, 3 blocks from it.

You just don't get it. It is not possible to build directly on top of what you perceive to be GZ. It is, however, possible to build as close to it as you can get (which is what they are doing). This does not change anything. It does not make it any less of a shrine to Islamic Supremacism because they don't get the satisfaction of building directly on top of it and instead have to go 500 feet down the street (the length of 2 yards, LOL).

You're just arguing semantics at this point.

If Imam Rauf refers to it as the Ground Zero mosque (which, in my book, is basically an admission that they're the building it as a shrine to Islamic supremacism), then we should as well.

Why shouldn't we follow suit?  Because he's incorrect. And i find it funny that the very guy's you demise (and so do i) seems to be a strong influence on how you define GZ.  Funny.    

I agree.

It's pretty important. Because by them calling it that, they're all but admitting that they're putting it there because of GZ, specifically to be a monument to Islam's victory over us and that area. If they had referred to it as a "NYC Community Center" from day one and not "the Ground Zero mosque", then they would have more of argument. Ignoring that would be one of the dumbest things to do.

I never knew that bastard determine GZ for you.  Is that why you hate muslims?  Because they have that much control over you sensibilities?  


Its bad enough, its wrong enough, it warrants independent action enough.................a s it is.

I don't hate Muslims. I hate the political and militaristic ideologies of Islam. They are two different things.

I never knew you determined GZ for me. GZ, for me, includes any building directly damaged in the attacks.

You keep playing your word games, though. The other thread I posted does a good job refuting that.

[Soul Crusher]

Looks like they are already moving in. 

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/faithful_already_filling_the_house_w1wuBCF97KVeJYYwxvA7pI

[Fury]

Looks like they are already moving in. 

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/faithful_already_filling_the_house_w1wuBCF97KVeJYYwxvA7pI

Smart move by those snakes. They've been praying in the streets and what not for a while now in order to make it look like they don't have any mosques (ignoring the 200+ in NYC alone).

[garebear]

I have a question: Why is propaganda always "spewed"?

[Dos Equis]

Ozmo how exactly do you define "ground zero"? 

[24KT]

Using your anaolgy - it will be funny when this stupid disgrace gets blown to smitherines by a McVeigh copycat because this imam is dumb enough to knowingly provoke and piss on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead at the hands of muslim terrorists who committed their act in the name of islam and were funded by radical muslim clerics in SA.   

You accuse this imam of "pissing on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead", by building a community centre designed to promote tolerance & cultural exchange, but aren't YOU the one who has vowed to desecrate christen that same location, that very same grave & burial site of 3,000 dead with pig's blood?

[Soul Crusher]

You accuse this imam of "pissing on the graves and burial site of more than 3,000 dead", by building a community centre designed to promote tolerance & cultural exchange, but aren't YOU the one who has vowed to desecrate christen that same location, that very same grave & burial site of 3,000 dead with pig's blood?

Its a victory shrine not a cultural diversity center. 

[garebear]

Its a victory shrine not a cultural diversity center. 

How do you know that?