Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: delta9mda on September 10, 2010, 08:59:01 AM
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what can you bros tell me about hrt?
im almost 41, got my results back and my test is at 158. doc said "test depot". im really happy about this but im just wondering what the whole deal is and how it all works. i know there are some hrt bros on here, help a bother out.
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It's great,...blood test three to four times a year, for free testosterone levels, prostate, cholesterol....if you are lucky you get a doc who will titrate your dose so you are at 1500 to 2000. You take finesteride (proscar), statin (or niacin) to control cholesterol, I also took thyroid because I was hypothyroid as well. You make gains in the gym like you are 18. You may not get to something like Cutler, but so what, what you get on HRT is much more sustainable. I did this instead of a golf club membership.
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cool deal. do they script things like adex to control estro.
my appointment to see him is in 2 weeks.
not looking to look like jay, im tired of being tired. i do want to see more for my efforts in the gym.
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cool deal. do they script things like adex to control estro.
my appointment to see him is in 2 weeks.
not looking to look like jay, im tired of being tired. i do want to see more for my efforts in the gym.
they script everything you can get in HG form. I have even seen injectable var.
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they script everything you can get in HG form. I have even seen injectable var.
i meant is adex typically scripted during hrt?
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i meant is adex typically scripted during hrt?
I'll post my list later tonight for you. Its amazing to say the least.
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im very interested in youre list. i just want an idea of what to expect (besides good times) ;)
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No most doctors will no script you for an anti-estrogen because at the dose they give you for HRT they deem it unnecessary. I'm sure you can find a few rogue doctors to prescribe you more than what would be prudently necessary but they are few and far between. Just get a small script from your doctor and order the rest black market so you can take upwards of 500-750mgs a week. You won't really notice shit from 200-250mgs every few weeks on an HRT dose, especially at age 41. And there are hardly any responsible doctors that would ever prescribe injectable anavar for HRT.
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There are a couple reputable anti-aging clinics that perscribe injjectable anavar amongst other things..
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Keep in mind these Items all need to be scripted by a Doctor. This is just a general list of Medecines that can be legally scripted(Probably more) There are also lots of injectable/oral Estrogens, and progesterones for females. Also all of the items I listed can be scripted in many different strengths:
HGH
Somatropin
Sermorelin
Omnitrop
Genptropin
Saizen
Tev-Tropin
Humatrope
Norditropin
Injectables
Sust
Test Decanoate
Delatestryl
Test E
Depo Test
Test C
Test cyp/prop/DHEA mix
Test Aqueous(suspension)
Test Prop
Test E/C/P mix
HCG
Nandralone Decanoate
Nandralone Prop
Nandralone Cyp
Stano
Stano/Oxandrolone
Oxandralone
All three types of B-12
Topicals
Androgel
Test cream
Nandrolone cream
Nandralone gel
Estriol cream
Orals
Testosterone Undecanoate
Oxymetholone
Oxandralone
Stanazolol
Fluoxymesterone
Test Troche
Hydrocortisone
Phentermine
Arimidex
Anastrozole
Clomid
Nolvadex
Teslac
Cytomel
Liothyronine
Synthroid
Armor Thyroid
DHEA
Propecia
Proscar
Finasteride
ED
Levitra
Cialis
Viagra
Cavarject Impulse
Nutraceuticals
Lots of them
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I have been on HRT for almost a year now. Urologist put me on it after prostate cancer surgery. I am prescribed 1/2 ml 2x per week of of test cyp. I stack sust for 4 months with it and then trim way back the 2 months before blood work time. I mistimed it last time when I got him to give me 3/4 mil 2x a week when I went in and my level was greater than 1500. He lowered me to 1/2 ml then. He is pretty cool, got a good laugh out of it. He knows I juiced for a while, he blames the rapid cancer growth to it which may be true. If your doc does not want to give you at least 1 ml a week I would switch docs. My buddy went through 2 other docs before he used mine. Good luck.
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No most doctors will no script you for an anti-estrogen because at the dose they give you for HRT they deem it unnecessary. I'm sure you can find a few rogue doctors to prescribe you more than what would be prudently necessary but they are few and far between. Just get a small script from your doctor and order the rest black market so you can take upwards of 500-750mgs a week. You won't really notice shit from 200-250mgs every few weeks on an HRT dose, especially at age 41. And there are hardly any responsible doctors that would ever prescribe injectable anavar for HRT.
You'd be surprised.
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I posted a response to hrt and my experience with it at http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=350155.msg4945453#msg4945453
Also I have to disagree with 4thAD with regard to what is prescribed for hrt with regard to anabolic steroids. The topicals are, the pills I cannot comment on, but the injectables are much more restrictive. Only testosterone esters (cypionate, propionate, enanthate) are prescribed. The other exotics like nandrolone may be listed for other medical problems but are not approved for HRT.
I've seen over 7 endos in the first 3 years and I had mentioned nandrolone and they either were not aware of the product or thought it was a vetinary medication.
In my experience I have found that the AMA recommendation is the law of the land when it comes to HRT. The Feds have been arresting legitimate hrt organizations out there and I have also found that none of the endos I have gone to really understand the problem and is willing to titrate you meds so you feel well.
As for topicals, don't waste your time, they damage your skin and you grow alot of hair, and after a few weeks of use become ineffective because your skin (an organ) inactivates it. This inactivation I experienced and also found some research on the web a few years ago. This fact won't be spread because the Feds and lab would be loosing much money.
As for pills. don't waste your time either. They will damage your liver.
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I posted a response to hrt and my experience with it at http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=350155.msg4945453#msg4945453
Also I have to disagree with 4thAD with regard to what is prescribed for hrt with regard to anabolic steroids. The topicals are, the pills I cannot comment on, but the injectables are much more restrictive. Only testosterone esters (cypionate, propionate, enanthate) are prescribed. The other exotics like nandrolone may be listed for other medical problems but are not approved for HRT.
I've seen over 7 endos in the first 3 years and I had mentioned nandrolone and they either were not aware of the product or thought it was a vetinary medication.
In my experience I have found that the AMA recommendation is the law of the land when it comes to HRT. The Feds have been arresting legitimate hrt organizations out there and I have also found that none of the endos I have gone to really understand the problem and is willing to titrate you meds so you feel well.
As for topicals, don't waste your time, they damage your skin and you grow alot of hair, and after a few weeks of use become ineffective because your skin (an organ) inactivates it. This inactivation I experienced and also found some research on the web a few years ago. This fact won't be spread because the Feds and lab would be loosing much money.
As for pills. don't waste your time either. They will damage your liver.
Do you think I just pulled that list out of my ass? What is this Bullshit that the pills are a waste of time and will just damage you're liver? Disagree all you want, but thats whats available!
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Do you think I just pulled that list out of my ass? What is this Bullshit that the pills are a waste of time and will just damage you're liver? Disagree all you want, but thats whats available!
That's what's available but unless you have a specific medical diagnosis requiring those drugs most HRT doctors will not prescribe most of that shit. There isn't one HRT doctor that is going to prescribe nandrolone for low test.
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That's what's available but unless you have a specific medical diagnosis requiring those drugs most HRT doctors will not prescribe most of that shit. There isn't one HRT doctor that is going to prescribe nandrolone for low test.
HRT is hormone replacement therapy. The key word here is hormone. TRT is for low test, test replacement therapy. Hope this helps.
I know you think you know everything and what every Doc will and will not prescribe, but I'm sorry to say you're wrong! There are legit ailments for nandralone.
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I don't want to be on all year. What will the doc say if I periodically go on and off again? ;D
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To your question. If you have low testosterone you will be on it your whole life. You can come off but that is your choice as you have the right to direct your own medical activity. However the side effects are lethargy, depression, painful joints, increased weight gain and generally poor health. Take a look at this site as it appears to have medically researched information and not Bro science http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/index.htm
My advice, google is your friend. Find and read everything you can get your hands on. Scrutinize anything that does not cite research and only use it as a stepping stone for further reading. and if it sites research find other research that either uses it for further study or refutes it. As you do you will start to get a good picture of what works and what to try and what to test for.
Now to 4thAD, I did not state that these drugs were not available, I said that none of the endocrinologist doctors I visited ever heard of them or had a different understanding of what they were. Also most endos are not trained in hypogonadism and will refrain from prescribing medication in an off label fashion. They simply do not want to risk their livelihood and license just to treat one patient.
There was one Internet doctor that I was seeing that know his stuff that did prescribe nandrolone and anti estrogen pills, but after about 3 years in business he and the pharmacy were gone. How about that.
Now to the issue of steroid pills. There has been numerous research both independent and by manufacturers that show that steroid pills, both anabolic an non anabolic have a deleterious effect on the liver. So unless there is a steroid pill that has overwhelming benefits and that can be shown through research (blood tests) not to have toxic results, I will take historical research over bro science.
Now what you can do to enlighten us as to the safety of such pills is to regale us with your blood tests, before, during, and after a cycle, and the physiological results of that cycle.
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HRT is hormone replacement therapy. The key word here is hormone. TRT is for low test, test replacement therapy
Just to be clear there is not such thing as "test replacement therapy". HRT encompasses all forms of hormonal replacement in men and women. It however is synonymous with replacement of testosterone and growth hormone.
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Just to be clear there is not such thing as "test replacement therapy". HRT encompasses all forms of hormonal replacement in men and women. It however is synonymous with replacement of testosterone and growth hormone.
Wrong again, because I was on test replacement therapy. Wow the internet gurus coming out of the woodwork today!
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I don't want to be on all year. What will the doc say if I periodically go on and off again? ;D
If you need TRT/HRT you will, should be on for life. The reason the Doc would prescribe for you is because you have low hormone levels. If you come off, theoretically your levels would drop even further because of reverse feedback loops until you fully recovered from the cycle.
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4thAD, you mentioned in your list that there is Nandrolone cream. and Nandralone gel. I was curious as to your source since google did not have anything on this type of application and FDA did not either. Here is the FDA site http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm
Also on searching the FDA site they show that all sales of Nan is discontinued in the US. Link and excerpt. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-19698.pdf
HUMAN SERVICES
Food and Drug Administration
[Docket No. FDA–2009–P–0218]
Determination That DECA-DURABOLIN
(Nandrolone Decanoate) Injection, 200
Milligrams/Milliliter, 1 Milliliter, Was
Not Withdrawn From Sale for Reasons
of Safety or Effectiveness
AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration,
HHS.
ACTION: Notice.
SUMMARY: The Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) is announcing its
determination that DECA-DURABOLIN
(nandrolone decanoate) Injection, 200
milligrams/milliliter (mg/mL), 1 mL,
was not withdrawn from sale for reasons
of safety or effectiveness. This
determination will allow FDA to
approve abbreviated new drug
applications (ANDAs) for nandrolone
decanoate, 200 mg/mL, 1 mL, if all other
legal and regulatory requirements are
met.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT:
Nikki Mueller, Center for Drug
Evaluation and Research, Food and
Drug Administration, 10903 New
Hampshire Ave., Bldg. 51, rm. 6312,
Silver Spring, MD 20993–0002, 301–
796–3601.
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: In 1984,
Congress enacted the Drug Price
Competition and Patent Term
Restoration Act of 1984 (Public Law 98–
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To your question. If you have low testosterone you will be on it your whole life. You can come off but that is your choice as you have the right to direct your own medical activity. However the side effects are lethargy, depression, painful joints, increased weight gain and generally poor health. Take a look at this site as it appears to have medically researched information and not Bro science http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/index.htm
My advice, google is your friend. Find and read everything you can get your hands on. Scrutinize anything that does not cite research and only use it as a stepping stone for further reading. and if it sites research find other research that either uses it for further study or refutes it. As you do you will start to get a good picture of what works and what to try and what to test for.
Now to 4thAD, I did not state that these drugs were not available, I said that none of the endocrinologist doctors I visited ever heard of them or had a different understanding of what they were. Also most endos are not trained in hypogonadism and will refrain from prescribing medication in an off label fashion. They simply do not want to risk their livelihood and license just to treat one patient.
There was one Internet doctor that I was seeing that know his stuff that did prescribe nandrolone and anti estrogen pills, but after about 3 years in business he and the pharmacy were gone. How about that.
Now to the issue of steroid pills. There has been numerous research both independent and by manufacturers that show that steroid pills, both anabolic an non anabolic have a deleterious effect on the liver. So unless there is a steroid pill that has overwhelming benefits and that can be shown through research (blood tests) not to have toxic results, I will take historical research over bro science.
Now what you can do to enlighten us as to the safety of such pills is to regale us with your blood tests, before, during, and after a cycle, and the physiological results of that cycle.
You do realize that you are on a steroid board right? I think everyone here knows the risks of steroid use and abuse, weather the use is from oils, or 17aa alkaloids and non 17aa alkaloids which both could be potentially harmful. Acetaminophen and alcohol is also harmful. If you want blood results I suggest you post up yours showing the detrimental effects of such drugs. Many on here including my self have had and frequently get regular blood work done. I am completely regulated by a physician on my steroid use, and I think he knows more than you do where my blood work is and where it should be. I never said orals are completely safe, but you are on a steroid board and you sound like a schmuck trying to tell people here to stay away from orals.
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4thAD, you mentioned in your list that there is Nandrolone cream. and Nandralone gel. I was curious as to your source since google did not have anything on this type of application and FDA did not either. Here is the FDA site http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm
Also on searching the FDA site they show that all sales of Nan is discontinued in the US. Link and excerpt. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-19698.pdf
Have you ever heard of compounding pharmacies? They can create what ever they want as long as the hormone is approved by the FDA for human use. I suggest you educate your self. Also contact an HRT clinic and get your blood work run and have them send you a list.
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Fireblade, keep in mind the list, is a list of drugs available by an HRT clinic. Are all the drugs on the list available to me, or anyone that wants them? No.
Delta9 asked if they script things like adex for estro control, and I told him I would post a list of what HRT clinics have available. The list is whats available. If you disagree I suggest you contact them and argue your point with the HRT clinic.
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4thAD, my apologies
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4thAD, help me understand, are you saying that a compounder can source Nan. from manufacturers not on the FDA list? The FDA listed manufacturers have all stopped selling the compound and none of them ever sold the product in crystalline form.
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HRT is hormone replacement therapy. The key word here is hormone. TRT is for low test, test replacement therapy. Hope this helps.
I know you think you know everything and what every Doc will and will not prescribe, but I'm sorry to say you're wrong! There are legit ailments for nandralone.
HRT/TRT pretty much the same thing when talking about men. Let's not get into semantics.
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HRT/TRT pretty much the same thing when talking about men. Let's not get into semantics.
Yeah I hear ya!
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4thAD, help me understand, are you saying that a compounder can source Nan. from manufacturers not on the FDA list? The FDA listed manufacturers have all stopped selling the compound and none of them ever sold the product in crystalline form.
Any Pharmacy can potentially compound any drug on the FDA list I would imagine. I know a lot of main stream pharmacies also have compounding capabilities. I was picking up a prescription for my wife the other day, and I over heard the Pharmacist telling another customer he could potentially dose his script of testosterone in any mg/ml he wanted(if it was prescribed). He said they had a compounding pharma right here, and it was a pharma everyone knows. I personally have a script for nandralone decanoate.
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Shit I have taken injectable anavar,winstrol,deca,and test all from a legit compounding pharmacy...fireblade have you ever gotten blood work while taking an oral steroid? I have and the enzymes do raise but never enough for my doctors to really worry...I got bloodwork done again 4 weeks after and 8 month cycle of injects and orals here and there...guess what? My levels are completely perfect
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Thanks 4thAD. Good info. As I said before I've been going to the Endos for 10 years and they look at me crazy.
To tstmaniac. Did the gels, patchs and injects. No orals since my doc advised against them, my research showed they were liver toxic and it seems that other prescription meds seem to do a number on my liver and kidneys. And yes I get blood work but of recent found that I should be doing more types of tests and more often.
To All: Found this site yesterday http://www.allthingsmale.com/. May be of value to some.
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That is Dr. John Crislers site. Been a member there for some time now. I have posted his HCG protocol on this board.
Orals can be damaging to the liver. So can a plethora of other over the counter drugs as well. Acetaminophen is very hepa toxic. This is the reason I always recommend running liv-52 when running orals in your cycles. From my personal experience and blood work and testimony from others like tstmaniac I dont think 17aa alkaloid steroids are as hepa toxic as the media makes them out to be. Does one need to take precautions and do there research before using such steroids? Absolutely.
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Thanks 4thAD. The article on HCG was very insightful. I will give it to my Endo and let you know what he says. Dr. John Crislers is on point because he does his research as any practicing Doctor should do but some of these other guys just dispense meds according to the AMA vodoo science.
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Thanks 4thAD. The article on HCG was very insightful. I will give it to my Endo and let you know what he says. Dr. John Crislers is on point because he does his research as any practicing Doctor should do but some of these other guys just dispense meds according to the AMA vodoo science.
John Crisler is the leading authority on HRT!
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If you need TRT/HRT you will, should be on for life. The reason the Doc would prescribe for you is because you have low hormone levels. If you come off, theoretically your levels would drop even further because of reverse feedback loops until you fully recovered from the cycle.
Thanks for the great and informative posts 4THAD. I went to an aging clinic and tried it and wow what a difference it made. 42 years old, lifelong lifter... It just makes ya feel "well." There are so many different benefits but in the gym, the difference was amazing. I could have kept on doing it for 2 copays/visits per month, $30x2/month, but I just couldn't see signing on to something for life. You're totally on the money with the part about coming off, I had the one shot, felt great for about 2-3 weeks and than shitty for a month or 2... I felt old and struggled to get through my workouts but kept at it and finally feel normal again but it wasn't fun. It just wasn't realistic for me to go there twice a month and get an injection/blood test etc. I am already tied to the gym and couldn't justify also being tied to the clinic twice a month forever. I will probably revisit at 50 but yeah, it's the forever thing that bothered me.
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Thanks for the great and informative posts 4THAD. I went to an aging clinic and tried it and wow what a difference it made. 42 years old, lifelong lifter... It just makes ya feel "well." There are so many different benefits but in the gym, the difference was amazing. I could have kept on doing it for 2 copays/visits per month, $30x2/month, but I just couldn't see signing on to something for life. You're totally on the money with the part about coming off, I had the one shot, felt great for about 2-3 weeks and than shitty for a month or 2... I felt old and struggled to get through my workouts but kept at it and finally feel normal again but it wasn't fun. It just wasn't realistic for me to go there twice a month and get an injection/blood test etc. I am already tied to the gym and couldn't justify also being tied to the clinic twice a month forever. I will probably revisit at 50 but yeah, it's the forever thing that bothered me.
TRT is well worth the money IMO. You will feel like a young man again. The best feeling in the world, just healthy.
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thanks for the replies here. im trying to learn what i can
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thanks for the replies here. im trying to learn what i can
Any advice I can help you out with brother, just PM me.
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If you need TRT/HRT you will, should be on for life. The reason the Doc would prescribe for you is because you have low hormone levels. If you come off, theoretically your levels would drop even further because of reverse feedback loops until you fully recovered from the cycle.
Right, so I could game the system that way for better gains (basicly "misuse" the hrt to maximize muscle size while still encouraging some natural test production)
Is that workable?
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Right, so I could game the system that way for better gains (basicly "misuse" the hrt to maximize muscle size while still encouraging some natural test production)
Is that workable?
HUH?
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re: hrt, do you just stay on at appropriate doses or do you cycle on / off?
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re: hrt, do you just stay on at appropriate doses or do you cycle on / off?
On HRT you stay on life at the prescribed dose. You can still run cycles, and instead of having to do PCT, you just go back to the prescribed dose for HRT.
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On HRT you stay on life at the prescribed dose. You can still run cycles, and instead of having to do PCT, you just go back to the prescribed dose for HRT.
this i like
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HUH?
LOL, I can't even make sense of that myself. ;D
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I've been on Androgel for a year, my skin apparently forgot to deactivate it.. I also have not grown more hair..So in my personal experience, I have to raise the BS flag on the below statement
"As for topicals, don't waste your time, they damage your skin and you grow alot of hair, and after a few weeks of use become ineffective because your skin (an organ) inactivates it"
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anyone know of rogue doctor in NYC. I did my annual check up and my doctor won't hear of it.