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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on September 16, 2010, 07:00:43 AM
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CTnow
Health Insurers Seeking Rate Hikes Of More Than 20 Percent In Connecticut
By MATTHEW STURDEVANT, msturdevant@courant.com
4:08 PM EDT, September 15, 2010
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ____
Health insurers are asking for immediate rate hikes of more than 20 percent in Connecticut for some plans, citing rising medical costs and federal health reform laws as reasons.
Both issues — the new federal health care reform and rising medical costs — are significant drivers of the increases, according to filings by insurers with state regulators that were reviewed by The Courant.
It remains to be seen how much of the requests will be approved. Many people might not see an increase before Jan. 1, and these proposed changes would largely affect new business, mostly in the individual market.
But the overall price shift is the clearest indicator yet of what customers and employers can expect when health insurers submit proposed 2011 rates in late October and November. The current round of price requests launches a clash between insurers who say the increases are justified and consumer advocates and government officials who say the numbers are wildly inflated.
Aetna asked earlier this summer for an average 24.7 percent increase over last year for small-group HMO plans. State regulators approved an average increase of 18 percent for all of Aetna's small-group plans and 14.2 percent for large-group and middle-market plans, according to Aetna and an initial review of documents provided to The Courant by the state Insurance Department.
A complete tally of average price requests is not available, as the Insurance Department must decide on hundreds of health plans and variations of plans for the five major companies offering medical coverage in Connecticut. But an examination of the documents suggests that the requests might be even larger than those of recent years at a time when health insurance has become a political hot potato leading into the midterm elections.
In what might appear to be an oddity, companies are citing a huge range of effects that the health care reform mandates will have on plan prices — from near zero to well over 20 percent. The reason is that among all the plans, some already deliver the provisions required by health reform, while others do not.
ConnectiCare is seeking an average 22.2 percent hike for its individual-market HMO plans, according to a filing with state regulators. The insurer's plans would result in an average annual increase of about 13 percent for the overall individual market, including HMO and other plans; 12 percent for small-group plans; and 11 percent to 12 percent for large-group plans, said vice president of actuarial services Kevin Grozio.
Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield in Connecticut, by far the largest insurer of Connecticut residents, said in a letter that it expects the federal health reform law to increase rates by as much as 22.9 percent for just a single provision — removing annual spending caps. The mandate to provide benefits to children regardless of pre-existing conditions will raise premiums by 4.8 percent, Anthem said in the letter. Mandated preventive care with no deductibles would raise rates by as much as 8.5 percent, Anthem said.
It was unclear how those separate factors would add up for Anthem's plans, but those potential increases were all on top of rising medical costs.
CIGNA Corp. is asking for an increase of up to 1.3 percent for adding preventive care provisions, a 1 percent increase for waiving pre-existing conditions for children up to 19, and an increase of 14.5 percent for children from birth to 18 for new business, according to the Insurance Department.
Oxford Health Plans, a part of UnitedHealth Group, said the reforms will have a minimum impact, or less than 1 percent on premiums, according to the Insurance Department.
The proposed changes drew fiery response from government officials. On Sept. 9, the Obama administration's Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius wrote a letter warning the trade group America's Health Insurance Plans of a "zero tolerance" policy for "falsely blaming premium increases for 2011 on the patient protections in the Affordable Care Act."
The rate hikes aren't justified, said Steve Larsen, deputy director of insurance oversight in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Office of Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight.
"We've done estimates," Larsen said in an interview. "Outside groups have done estimates, including The Urban Institute and Mercer, and the credible estimates come in in the 1 [percent] to 2 percent range for the impact of the health care reform provisions."
Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said, "These outrageous requests demonstrate the need for stronger Department of Insurance authority to block unjustified health insurance premium increases, as I strongly advocated in the last session. My proposed bill would have allowed the commissioner to consider insurer profitability, required insurers to inform customers of rate requests and mandated an up or down ruling on all increases."
On Sept. 23, health insurers will be required to comply with an array of provisions that were part of federal health reform laws passed six months ago. In Connecticut, some of provisions were already extended to consumers by state law. Others were not, and they are cited as part of the reason for proposed increases to premiums starting Oct. 1.
"If you fail to recognize that the new requirements around benefits that were passed in federal reform were going to drive price, I think you're being intellectually irresponsible," said Keith Stover, a lobbyist with the Connecticut Association of Health Plans.
New regulations include eliminating cash limits on how much insurers pay per person each year, and throughout a person's lifetime. Insurers won't be able to deny coverage to children under 19 who have a pre-existing medical condition. Additionally, some federal laws duplicate what was already law in Connecticut, such as allowing young adults to stay on their parents plan until they reach age 26.
"Those are new benefits that are going to cost money," Stover said. "You can't just wave the magic wand and say, 'Do all these things, and they're free.' It just doesn't work that way."
Aetna believes that its requests were justified based on rising costs, said spokeswoman Susan Millerick.
"The changes in our rates for these groups are directly related to the cost of health care services in Connecticut, in terms of both the cost of the services provided to our members, as well as our members' increased use of health care services," Millerick said. "For example, we are seeing hospital cost increases alone in the low teens, coupled with increasing provider, pharmaceutical and new technology costs."
Some of the rate increases are clearly stated in cover letters submitted with the rate proposals while other insurers, such as CIGNA Corp., UnitedHealthcare and Anthem, do not say how rising medical costs and health reform laws will change rates.
"The underlying cost inflation hasn't changed," said ConnectiCare spokesman Stephen Jewett. "We could talk about the federal health reform bill adding some additional cost. We could talk about different things happening in the system that occasionally will spike up in the market, if we have a heavy flu season, or something like that. But at the end of the day, it's your baseline medical inflation from people utilizing the system more, having more access to more drugs and medical technology … the prices for those products just never slows down, and the utilization of those products just continues to grow."
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We need to repeal ObamaCare asap.
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CTnow
Health Insurers Seeking Rate Hikes Of More Than 20 Percent In Connecticut
By MATTHEW STURDEVANT, msturdevant@courant.com
4:08 PM EDT, September 15, 2010
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ____
Health insurers are asking for immediate rate hikes of more than 20 percent in Connecticut for some plans, citing rising medical costs and federal health reform laws as reasons.
Both issues — the new federal health care reform and rising medical costs — are significant drivers of the increases, according to filings by insurers with state regulators that were reviewed by The Courant.
It remains to be seen how much of the requests will be approved. Many people might not see an increase before Jan. 1, and these proposed changes would largely affect new business, mostly in the individual market.
But the overall price shift is the clearest indicator yet of what customers and employers can expect when health insurers submit proposed 2011 rates in late October and November. The current round of price requests launches a clash between insurers who say the increases are justified and consumer advocates and government officials who say the numbers are wildly inflated.
Aetna asked earlier this summer for an average 24.7 percent increase over last year for small-group HMO plans. State regulators approved an average increase of 18 percent for all of Aetna's small-group plans and 14.2 percent for large-group and middle-market plans, according to Aetna and an initial review of documents provided to The Courant by the state Insurance Department.
A complete tally of average price requests is not available, as the Insurance Department must decide on hundreds of health plans and variations of plans for the five major companies offering medical coverage in Connecticut. But an examination of the documents suggests that the requests might be even larger than those of recent years at a time when health insurance has become a political hot potato leading into the midterm elections.
In what might appear to be an oddity, companies are citing a huge range of effects that the health care reform mandates will have on plan prices — from near zero to well over 20 percent. The reason is that among all the plans, some already deliver the provisions required by health reform, while others do not.
ConnectiCare is seeking an average 22.2 percent hike for its individual-market HMO plans, according to a filing with state regulators. The insurer's plans would result in an average annual increase of about 13 percent for the overall individual market, including HMO and other plans; 12 percent for small-group plans; and 11 percent to 12 percent for large-group plans, said vice president of actuarial services Kevin Grozio.
Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield in Connecticut, by far the largest insurer of Connecticut residents, said in a letter that it expects the federal health reform law to increase rates by as much as 22.9 percent for just a single provision — removing annual spending caps. The mandate to provide benefits to children regardless of pre-existing conditions will raise premiums by 4.8 percent, Anthem said in the letter. Mandated preventive care with no deductibles would raise rates by as much as 8.5 percent, Anthem said.
It was unclear how those separate factors would add up for Anthem's plans, but those potential increases were all on top of rising medical costs.
CIGNA Corp. is asking for an increase of up to 1.3 percent for adding preventive care provisions, a 1 percent increase for waiving pre-existing conditions for children up to 19, and an increase of 14.5 percent for children from birth to 18 for new business, according to the Insurance Department.
Oxford Health Plans, a part of UnitedHealth Group, said the reforms will have a minimum impact, or less than 1 percent on premiums, according to the Insurance Department.
The proposed changes drew fiery response from government officials. On Sept. 9, the Obama administration's Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius wrote a letter warning the trade group America's Health Insurance Plans of a "zero tolerance" policy for "falsely blaming premium increases for 2011 on the patient protections in the Affordable Care Act."
The rate hikes aren't justified, said Steve Larsen, deputy director of insurance oversight in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Office of Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight.
"We've done estimates," Larsen said in an interview. "Outside groups have done estimates, including The Urban Institute and Mercer, and the credible estimates come in in the 1 [percent] to 2 percent range for the impact of the health care reform provisions."
Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said, "These outrageous requests demonstrate the need for stronger Department of Insurance authority to block unjustified health insurance premium increases, as I strongly advocated in the last session. My proposed bill would have allowed the commissioner to consider insurer profitability, required insurers to inform customers of rate requests and mandated an up or down ruling on all increases."
On Sept. 23, health insurers will be required to comply with an array of provisions that were part of federal health reform laws passed six months ago. In Connecticut, some of provisions were already extended to consumers by state law. Others were not, and they are cited as part of the reason for proposed increases to premiums starting Oct. 1.
"If you fail to recognize that the new requirements around benefits that were passed in federal reform were going to drive price, I think you're being intellectually irresponsible," said Keith Stover, a lobbyist with the Connecticut Association of Health Plans.
New regulations include eliminating cash limits on how much insurers pay per person each year, and throughout a person's lifetime. Insurers won't be able to deny coverage to children under 19 who have a pre-existing medical condition. Additionally, some federal laws duplicate what was already law in Connecticut, such as allowing young adults to stay on their parents plan until they reach age 26.
"Those are new benefits that are going to cost money," Stover said. "You can't just wave the magic wand and say, 'Do all these things, and they're free.' It just doesn't work that way."
Aetna believes that its requests were justified based on rising costs, said spokeswoman Susan Millerick.
"The changes in our rates for these groups are directly related to the cost of health care services in Connecticut, in terms of both the cost of the services provided to our members, as well as our members' increased use of health care services," Millerick said. "For example, we are seeing hospital cost increases alone in the low teens, coupled with increasing provider, pharmaceutical and new technology costs."
Some of the rate increases are clearly stated in cover letters submitted with the rate proposals while other insurers, such as CIGNA Corp., UnitedHealthcare and Anthem, do not say how rising medical costs and health reform laws will change rates.
"The underlying cost inflation hasn't changed," said ConnectiCare spokesman Stephen Jewett. "We could talk about the federal health reform bill adding some additional cost. We could talk about different things happening in the system that occasionally will spike up in the market, if we have a heavy flu season, or something like that. But at the end of the day, it's your baseline medical inflation from people utilizing the system more, having more access to more drugs and medical technology … the prices for those products just never slows down, and the utilization of those products just continues to grow."
________________________ ________________________ ____
We need to repeal ObamaCare asap.
It has only just begun.
This will do down as the worst Bill even signed into law.
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My insurance just spike by 25%.
My business friends' by about 15-20%, etc etc.
and this is what Obama and the fellow traveling vermin spent a year and a half on.
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Shhhhhhhhhhh you cant say that or Sebilias will have you arrested.
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>:(
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>:(
Get ready to pay out the ass BF.
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my insurance has gone up 20% or more every year for the last 5 years
what caused that?
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Get ready to pay out the ass BF.
I have Anthem Blue Cross. :'(
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my insurance has gone up 20% or more every year for the last 5 years
what caused that?
That's not the freaking point. We are spending now hundreds of billions of dollars on this stupid bill, and Obama specifically promised costs would go down and the average family would save $2500 a year.
That is a fact.
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That's not the freaking point. We are spending now hundreds of billions of dollars on this stupid bill, and Obama specifically promised costs would go down and the average family would save $2500 a year.
That is a fact.
find me the quote or even better the entire statement where he said this
I keep looking over the stuff that was written at the time the legislation was passed and I see nothing that say the legislation would make your health care premiums go down in 2011.
don't click this link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319
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find me the quote or even better the entire statement where he said this
I keep looking over the stuff that was written at the time the legislation was passed and I see nothing that say the legislation would make your health care premiums go down in 2011.
don't click this link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319
Whats your point? That we can get ass fucked until the legislation goes into effect? Which is another point if its so fucking important to save those dying in the streets ::), why is spread out over years? And then get ass fucked again when the legislation goes into effect? Oh and then their is the business of the Federal Government having no fucking constitutional authority to do this in the first place, but I digress.
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Straw - he specifically said premiums will FALL by 20%.
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Obama has to be a sociopath, I swear he gets a hard-on by seeing how many people he can get to buy into his BS
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Whats your point? That we can get ass fucked until the legislation goes into effect? Which is another point if its so fucking important to save those dying in the streets ::), why is spread out over years? And then get ass fucked again when the legislation goes into effect? Oh and then their is the business of the Federal Government having no fucking constitutional authority to do this in the first place, but I digress.
my point is that premiums have gonve up each year anyway and there is a whole list of good things that this legislation will provide
without this legislation we would almost certainly be more "ass fucked", as you so eloquently put it
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my point is that premiums have gonve up each year anyway and there is a whole list of good things that this legislation will provide
without this legislation we would almost certainly be more "ass fucked", as you so eloquently put it
Absolutely not true. The reforms they passed could have been done sperately, especially without the 1099 repoting bs, and especially without the massive tax hikes this thing is going to cause.
and dont even start on the state taxes that are going to aSKYROCKET due to the shift of tens of millions on to medicaid. States pay 50% of medicaid and the local property taxes are going to skyrocket as well due to this obscene bill.
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my point is that premiums have gonve up each year anyway and there is a whole list of good things that this legislation will provide
without this legislation we would almost certainly be more "ass fucked", as you so eloquently put it
The legislation is a bunch of unconstitutional horseshit! How did we get the HMO in the first place? The government, it was going to solve all our problems and look at that shit sandwich. Don't tell me all the good the government is going to do with this legislation, because if past performance is an indicator, we are screwed.
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The legislation is a bunch of unconstitutional horseshit! How did we get the HMO in the first place? The government, it was going to solve all our problems and look at that shit sandwich. Don't tell me all the good the government is going to do with this legislation, because if past performance is an indicator, we are screwed.
if that's the case then the courts will decide
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if that's the case then the courts will decide
Straw do you even remotely grasp the fact that obama shifted tens of millions to Medicaid in this sham of a bill and that now the States are going to have to jack up taxes since they pay 50% of the medicaid tab.
This was the whole issue Ben Nelson held out for.
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find me the quote or even better the entire statement where he said this
I keep looking over the stuff that was written at the time the legislation was passed and I see nothing that say the legislation would make your health care premiums go down in 2011.
20 promises by Obama for a $2500 decrease in health premiums per family per year.
http://www.breitbart.tv/20-promises-for-2500-all-americans-now-await-lower-premiums-promised-by-obama/
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20 promises by Obama for a $2500 decrease in health premiums per family per year.
http://www.breitbart.tv/20-promises-for-2500-all-americans-now-await-lower-premiums-promised-by-obama/
There is simply no way to spin this anymore.
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find me the quote or even better the entire statement where he said this
I keep looking over the stuff that was written at the time the legislation was passed and I see nothing that say the legislation would make your health care premiums go down in 2011.
don't click this link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319
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Straw - don't you see how this asshole lies by the second on this and every other issue?
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Straw - don't you see how this asshole lies by the second on this and every other issue?
Some people refuse to admit they are wrong.
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333- nice compilation of quotes.
did you notice that they are all before he was even elected, much less before health care legislation was being crafted and then being watered down by Republicans.
thanks to Repubs (and some Dems) we're stuck with a watered down bill that doesn't reach the aspirations that were thrown around on the campaign trail
I know you like to ignore that kind of reality but unfortunately the rest of us are stuck with it
why don't you show me some clips where Obama says he's for "single payer"
we didn't get that either so he must have intentionally lied about it right?
wouldn't that be the simple minded conculsion?
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Some people refuse to admit they are wrong.
LOL straw has never not once admitted he was wrong on this board...even when faced with having to create his own definition for a word rather than admit he was wrong about it...he chose to create his own definition. ;D :o
it is astounding the level of idiocy that he has displayed and yet he still keeps coming back I guess we have to respect him for his perseverance. ;D
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333- nice compilation of quotes.
did you notice that they are all before he was even elected, much less before health care legislation was being crafted and then being watered down by Republicans.
thanks to Repubs (and some Dems) we're stuck with a watered down bill that doesn't reach the aspirations that were thrown around on the campaign trail
I know you like to ignore that kind of reality but unfortunately the rest of us are stuck with it
why don't you show me some clips where Obama says he's for "single payer"
we didn't get that either so he must have intentionally lied about it right?
wouldn't that be the simple minded conculsion?
Straw he lied through his teeth on this. Stop trying to explain it away.
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333- nice compilation of quotes.
did you notice that they are all before he was even elected, much less before health care legislation was being crafted and then being watered down by Republicans.
thanks to Repubs (and some Dems) we're stuck with a watered down bill that doesn't reach the aspirations that were thrown around on the campaign trail
I know you like to ignore that kind of reality but unfortunately the rest of us are stuck with it
why don't you show me some clips where Obama says he's for "single payer"
we didn't get that either so he must have intentionally lied about it right?
wouldn't that be the simple minded conculsion?
Is this recent enough for you Straw ?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
What will health reform mean for you?
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
* You will likely pay less---perhaps much less. If you buy coverage like you have today on your own, premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent. If you get coverage through your job, premiums could decline by up to 3 percent.
* In addition, many Americans buying coverage in the individual market will qualify for tax credits that reduce their premiums by an average of nearly 60 percent – and they will get better coverage than what they have today.
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
What will health reform mean for you?
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
* You will likely pay less---perhaps much less. If you buy coverage like you have today on your own, premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent. If you get coverage through your job, premiums could decline by up to 3 percent.
* In addition, many Americans buying coverage in the individual market will qualify for tax credits that reduce their premiums by an average of nearly 60 percent – and they will get better coverage than what they have today.
I dont' see any guarantee in that quote and I don't see anything that says this alleged increase in CT won't be offset by the tax credit which is also mentioned. I also find that included in the list of 18 immediate benefits is this statement below which obviously implies that they are aware that rates could still go up
18) Holds Insurance Companies Accountable for Unreasonable Rate Hikes
Creates a grant program to support States in requiring health insurance companies to submit justification for all requested premium increases, and insurance companies with excessive or unjustified premium exchanges may not be able to participate in the new Health Insurance Exchanges. Starting in plan year 2011.
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I dont' see any guarantee in that quote and I don't see anything that says this alleged increase in CT won't be offset by the tax credit which is also mentioned. I also find that included in the list of 18 immediate benefits is this statement below which obviously implies that they are aware that rates could still go up
18) Holds Insurance Companies Accountable for Unreasonable Rate Hikes
Creates a grant program to support States in requiring health insurance companies to submit justification for all requested premium increases, and insurance companies with excessive or unjustified premium exchanges may not be able to participate in the new Health Insurance Exchanges. Starting in plan year 2011.
Straw - please. Just give it up. everyone is getting massively hammered now due to ObamaCare and will be in their state taxes once the people get moved to medicaid.
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I dont' see any guarantee in that quote and I don't see anything that says this alleged increase in CT won't be offset by the tax credit which is also mentioned. I also find that included in the list of 18 immediate benefits is this statement below which obviously implies that they are aware that rates could still go up
18) Holds Insurance Companies Accountable for Unreasonable Rate Hikes
Creates a grant program to support States in requiring health insurance companies to submit justification for all requested premium increases, and insurance companies with excessive or unjustified premium exchanges may not be able to participate in the new Health Insurance Exchanges. Starting in plan year 2011.
You really are an idiot
Here is the exact quote from the Whitehouse website in relation to the new law: "premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent."
Do you know what is a "premium" Straw ?
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You really are an idiot
Here is the exact quote from the Whitehorse website in relation to the new law: "premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent."
Do you know what is a "premium" Straw ?
I see the quote
it's say "expected" not guaranteed and it also says that tax credtid could be offset the amount of premium by 60%.
btw did you notice the first line of the story that started this thread;
Health insurers are asking for immediate rate hikes of more than 20 percent in Connecticut for some plans, citing rising medical costs and federal health reform laws as reasons.
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I see the quote
it's say "expected" not guaranteed and it also says that tax credtid could be offset the amount of premium by 60%.
btw did you notice the first line of the story that started this thread;
::)
Straw - you are not a dumb guy at all, and probably better informed than 90% of others were argue with on these boards. I just don't understand how you can be informed on a lot of these issues and still take the positions you do seeing the real world effects.
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I see the quote
it's say "expected" not guaranteed and it also says that tax credtid could be offset the amount of premium by 60%.
btw did you notice the first line of the story that started this thread;
What does it take for you to admit you are wrong ?
The White House website clearly states that rates will go down. You just have your head too far up your ass to admit you are wrong.
The only expatiation ( expected) is how much.
Once again, from the White House website:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
"What will health reform mean for you?"
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
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What does it take for you to admit you are wrong ?
The White House website clearly states that rates will go down. You just have your head too far up your ass to admit you are wrong.
The only expatiation ( expected) is how much.
Once again, from the White House website:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
What will health reform mean for you?
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
what would you like me to admit I'm wrong about?
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what would you like me to admit I'm wrong about?
about the fact that Obama said that rates would go down. they are not. He lied.
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Yes he did lie, since he admitted the other day he knew costs would go up after obamaCare was passed.
Additionally, we are going to get rocked with the 1099 law along with the shifting of tens of millions on to medicaid which is going to drive state taxes threw the freaking roof.
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Obama promised that rates would go down. they are not. He lied.
where does obama say he promises that rates would go down?
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where does obama say he promises that rates would go down?
Once again, from the White House website:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
"What will health reform mean for you?"
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
"premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent."
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where does obama say he promises that rates would go down?
Straw - stop with the dumb act.
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wasting your time fellas he wont admit he is wrong...wouldnt do it about being a hypocrite, wouldnt do it about being wrong about the definition of the word hypocrite, abortion rights, gay rights etc...
he simply will not admit he is wrong... ::)
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Straw - stop with the dumb act.
how is that statement a "promise" and if rates are supposed to go down then why do they also talk about situation where they go up.
I just see no need to get all bent out of shape over a story that says:
Health insurers are asking for immediate rate hikes of more than 20 percent in Connecticut for some plans, citing rising medical costs and federal health reform laws as reasons.
Both issues — the new federal health care reform and rising medical costs — are significant drivers of the increases, according to filings by insurers with state regulators that were reviewed by The Courant.
It remains to be seen how much of the requests will be approved Many people might not see an increase before Jan. 1, and these proposed changes would largely affect new business, mostly in the individual market..
I do understnd that many people on the right want to feel angry and need to seek out new ways every day to be pissed off and will grasp at anything to do so
nothing new there
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LOL!
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how is that statement a "promise" and if rates are supposed to go down then why do they also talk about situation where they go up.
I just see no need to get all bent out of shape over a story that says:
I do understnd that many people on the right want to feel angry and need to seek out new ways every day to be pissed off and will grasp at anything to do so
nothing new there
Straw - you really must be playing a dumb act right?
i'm serious, i have rarely encountered someone so delusional as youerself.
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so I guess bush wasnt wrong about WMD b/c he never "promised" they have them...
wasnt wrong about Iraq and terrorism b/c he never "promised"...
goodness youre an idiot straw ::)
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Straw - you really must be playing a dumb act right?
i'm serious, i have rarely encountered someone so delusional as youerself.
I'm not playing anything
you and others seem to feel need to be outraged over every little thing you read or hear
I've read the links provided and I've read the story and I don't see anything to get upset about (not as if that's ever stopped you before)
saying they expect something to happen is not a promise and there are many other statements which obviously acknowledge that rates coudl still go up
feel free to keep being outraged but you might want to pace yourself.
There will be some other shred of nothing which you can get pissed off about tomorrow
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Not all of us live in fucking fairfield county in CT. I fucking hope mine doesn't..Fucking state is beyond ridiculous. WTF they doing with all the revenue and money the casinos are giving them..
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so I guess bush wasnt wrong about WMD b/c he never "promised" they have them...
wasnt wrong about Iraq and terrorism b/c he never "promised"...
goodness youre an idiot straw ::)
bump for an answer straw man... ;D
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I'm not playing anything
you and others seem to feel need to be outraged over every little thing you read or hear
I've read the links provided and I've read the story and I don't see anything to get upset about (not as if that's ever stopped you before)
saying they expect something to happen is not a promise and there are many other statements which obviously acknowledge that rates coudl still go up
feel free to keep being outraged but you might want to pace yourself.
There will be some other shred of nothing which you can get pissed off about tomorrow
People are FREAKING PISSED off about getting 20% increases when they were promised for over a year thatt heir costs would go down unless we passed Commie-Care. are you so utterly delusional not to see that?
What is wrong with you?
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Not all of us live in fucking fairfield county in CT. I fucking hope mine doesn't..Fucking state is beyond ridiculous. WTF they doing with all the revenue and money the casinos are giving them..
Linda M. will vote to repeal ObamaCare. Blumenthal won't.
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so I guess bush wasnt wrong about WMD b/c he never "promised" they have them...
wasnt wrong about Iraq and terrorism b/c he never "promised"...
goodness youre an idiot straw ::)
you seem to be getting desparate now
If if make you feel any better I don't recall Bush making any such "promise" but Cheney said it was pretty much a certainty, and Powell made a huge argument that they existed (though again I don't recall him promising or guaranteeing) and British memo's say the Bush admin was fitting the intel to meet the objective. We should have left after finding out there were no WMD's
That was the objective right?
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I had no idea Straw was this delusional.
I will refrain from making fun of the poor guy from now on.
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you seem to be getting desparate now
If if make you feel any better I don't recall Bush making any such "promise" but Cheney said it was pretty much a certainty, and Powell made a huge argument that they existed (though again I don't recall him promising or guaranteeing) and British memo's say the Bush admin was fitting the intel to meet the objective. We should have left after finding out there were no WMD's
That was the objective right?
now thats funny
well according to your logic "pretty much a certainty" is 100% so i guess he wasnt wrong right?
I mean obama based his whole argument for obama care around stopping the rising costs to families and how the bill would do that...but he isnt wrong right?
dumb ass ::) goodness youre an idiot
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I had no idea Straw was this delusional.
I will refrain from making fun of the poor guy from now on.
ive known for some time now, like i always say when i get into a debate with him
its like he has a degenerative brain disorder tha is rapidly progressing 8)
he actually used to be a decent poster
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Again Straw - people were told and promised over a 1 1/2 that their premiums and costs would go down. This was all while Obama ignored the economy.
And now costs are skyrocketing and Obama admits he knew costs would go up and you don't get why people are utterly pissed off?
Geez dude - wake the hell up already.
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now thats funny
well according to your logic "pretty much a certainty" is 100% so i guess he wasnt wrong right?
I mean obama based his whole argument for obama care around stopping the rising costs to families and how the bill would do that...but he isnt wrong right?
dumb ass ::) goodness youre an idiot
you seem angry
you should try to relax
it's only a message board
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you seem angry
you should try to relax
it's only a message board
Straw - how you don't see why the country is in near revolt over obamas' daily lie machine is realy beyond my comprehension.
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you seem angry
you should try to relax
it's only a message board
you seem ignorant
you should try to educate yourself
it makes you look like a dumb ass ;)
but hey dont let logic get in the way, right... ;D
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Straw - seriously - why do you feel the need and compulsion to kneepad obama?
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Again Straw - people were told and promised over a 1 1/2 that their premiums and costs would go down. This was all while Obama ignored the economy.
And now costs are skyrocketing and Obama admits he knew costs would go up and you don't get why people are utterly pissed off?
Geez dude - wake the hell up already.
1. statement made in 2007 and 2008 have to be tempered against the actual legislation that happened in 2009 and 2010. Again, I know you hate having to deal with reality but other people don't have that same advantage. I don't know how else to explain that to you and I doubt it would matter anyway
2. cost are not skyrockting. costs went up faster (and without any restrictions) prior to the legislation
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1. statement made in 2007 and 2008 have to be tempered against the actual legislation that happened in 2009 and 2010. Again, I know you hate having to deal with reality but other people don't have that same advantage. I don't know how else to explain that to you and I doubt it would matter anyway
2. cost are not skyrockting. costs went up faster (and without any restrictions) prior to the legislation
for the 4th time:
from the White House website today, September 16, 2010 ( not 2007 to 2008):
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
"What will health reform mean for you?"
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
"premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent."
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you seem to be getting desparate now
If if make you feel any better I don't recall Bush making any such "promise" but Cheney said it was pretty much a certainty, and Powell made a huge argument that they existed (though again I don't recall him promising or guaranteeing) and British memo's say the Bush admin was fitting the intel to meet the objective. We should have left after finding out there were no WMD's
That was the objective right?
No. Actually, you are getting DESPERATE. Those little words under your profile pic can be more aptly applied to you since you are so utterly stupid. According to your idiotic logic, a politician has to say "I promise" before mentioning what they are going to do for the citizens of this nation in order for it to be labeled a lie if they do the opposite.
So if I say the sky is black. Then that is not a lie because I didn't say "I promise". Do you understand how moronic that is? I guess not, since you came up with it. Tonymctones post makes an excellent point. Since Bush didn't promise there were WMDs I expect your moronic ass to stop calling him a liar and a traitor.
Never mind, that Obama was SUPPOSED to be DIFFERENT. You know that CHANGE stuff you dumb Libs talked about. A president that would finally DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO. Do you see the contradiction here, fool?
It sure is true what is said. That if you live long enough you will see, read and hear everything. I think I have encountered the most stupidest person in the world in straw.
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face it straw bush and cheney werent wrong either using your logic...
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1. statement made in 2007 and 2008 have to be tempered against the actual legislation that happened in 2009 and 2010. Again, I know you hate having to deal with reality but other people don't have that same advantage. I don't know how else to explain that to you and I doubt it would matter anyway
2. cost are not skyrockting. costs went up faster (and without any restrictions) prior to the legislation
Oh please - what is wrong with you? Do you even pay attention to the news? Obama said time and time and time again DURING THE HEALTHCARE DEBATE that costs would come down.
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No. Actually, you are getting DESPERATE. Those little words under your profile pic can be more aptly applied to you since you are so utterly stupid. According to your idiotic logic, a politician has to say "I promise" before mentioning what they are going to do for the citizens of this nation in order for it to be labeled a lie if they do the opposite.
So if I say the sky is black. Then that is not a lie because I didn't say "I promise". Do you understand how moronic that is? I guess not, since you came up with it. Tonymctones post makes an excellent point. Since Bush didn't promise there were WMDs I expect your moronic ass to stop calling him a liar and a traitor.
Never mind, that Obama was SUPPOSED to be DIFFERENT. You know that CHANGE stuff you dumb Libs talked about. A president that would finally DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO. Do you see the contradiction here, fool?
It sure is true what is said. That if you live long enough you will see, read and hear everything. I think I have encountered the most stupidest person in the world in straw.
I said and statemen of expectation is not a promise and I gave numerous examples where they talk about scenarios where premiums will go up
if you want me to agree with you about something then make a better case
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I said and statemen of expectation is not a promise and I gave numerous examples where they talk about scenarios where premiums will go up
if you want me to agree with you about something then make a better case
so the statement of "almost certainty" means cheney wasnt wrong either then I guess right?
I mean if obama wasnt wrong about the health care bill bringing down premiums b/c he didnt specifically promise, right?
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face it straw bush and cheney werent wrong either using your logic...
I already told you that neither promised there were WMD's
Cheney just said it was a certainty and Bush/Cheney just appeared (in hindsight) to be manufacturing the case
what more do you want
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Straw - are you ready to admit ObamaCare is a failure in its stated promise of keeping premiums down?
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This is hysterical.
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I already told you that neither promised there were WMD's
Cheney just said it was a certainty and Bush/Cheney just appeared (in hindsight) to be manufacturing the case
what more do you want
lol first it was an "almost certainty" now he said it was a "certainty" ::) LMAO
dude youre a grade A moron
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Is Straw the idiot that he said would buy stock in the US Postal Service if it were possible ?
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lol first it was an "almost certainty" now he said it was a "certainty" ::) LMAO
dude youre a grade A moron
Straw will do anything to spin a turd so long as it comes from Obama.
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Is Straw the idiot that he said would buy stock in the US Postal Service if it were possible ?
no, he is the person who said GW would be a modern day big govt lib.
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Is Straw the idiot that he said would buy stock in the US Postal Service if it were possible ?
LOL one in the same
he also said that the post office was doing fine...
wouldnt admit to being wrong about that either ;D
hahahahah man this thread is giving me some good laughs
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LOL one in the same
he also said that the post office was doing fine...
wouldnt admit to being wrong about that either ;D
hahahahah man this thread is giving me some good laughs
Makes since now.
He definitely brings laughter to this Board ;D
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I said and statemen of expectation is not a promise and I gave numerous examples where they talk about scenarios where premiums will go up
if you want me to agree with you about something then make a better case
It's impossible to make you agree, because you are starting from a position that is so unreasonable and irrational that it is impossible for a sane person to comprehend. Besides, you are too proud to admit you are wrong.
Every person with common sense knows what a lie is. Except you. Every politician, including presidents, have been judged on what they claimed they were going to do before getting elected and what they actually DID when they were in office. Every President who did the opposite or passed legislation that did the opposite of what they TOLD the American people they were going to do before getting elected was considered a LIAR. Look up Bush's "read my lips no new taxes". He was labeled a liar. Why is it different for the current moron in the White House?
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no, he is the person who said GW would be a modern day big govt lib.
never said he would be a "modern day big government lib"
in fact big government lib doesn't even exist.
it's a creation of the right to keep people dumb and distracted while they (the Repubs) increase the size the government
I thought you knew that already
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It's impossible to make you agree, because you are starting from a position that is so unreasonable and irrational that it is impossible for a sane person to comprehend. Besides, you are too proud stupid to admit you are wrong.
fixed.
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It's impossible to make you agree, because you are starting from a position that is so unreasonable and irrational that it is impossible for a sane person to comprehend. Besides, you are too proud to admit you are wrong.
Every person with common sense knows what a lie is. Except you. Every politician, including presidents, have been judged on what they claimed they were going to do before getting elected and what they actually DID when they were in office. Every President who did the opposite or passed legislation that did the opposite of what they TOLD the American people they were going to do before getting elected was considered a LIAR. Look up Bush's "read my lips no new taxes". He was labeled a liar. Why is it different for the current moron in the White House?
Its very simple:
1. These fools can't so early on admit Obama is beyond a disaster of Hiroshima like measure.
2. these people who voted for Obama view his failure as their failure and refuse to admit it.
3. Can't fathom that Obama went from who they thought was "the one we have been waiting for" to "POFS" in so short a time.
4. Can't accept thatt he fact that first black president is also going to go down as perhaps worse than Carter.
5. Can't deal with the fact that the "progressive" agenda has caused a Tea Party movement to explode and really take back the nation.
6. Can't deal with the fact that every far left policy has proven a disaster.
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so the statement of "almost certainty" means cheney wasnt wrong either then I guess right?
I mean if obama wasnt wrong about the health care bill bringing down premiums b/c he didnt specifically promise, right?
If you had a quote of Obama saying something was a certainty you'd have something to argue about
let me know when you find it
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never said he would be a "modern day big government lib"
in fact big government lib doesn't even exist.
it's a creation of the right to keep people dumb and distracted while they (the Repubs) increase the size the government
I thought you knew that already
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Ha Ha Ha. boy are you a delusional nut.
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Straw will do anything to spin a turd so long as it comes from Obama.
I criticize Obama all the time and you know it
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? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Ha Ha Ha. boy are you a delusional nut.
sorry those facts are painful for you
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If you had a quote of Obama saying something was a certainty you'd have something to argue about
let me know when you find it
So fine straw - now that we jknow the two biggest things Obama did turned out drastically against his promises and estimations, why should we follow him on anything given his history of failure now?
Face it, your messiah is an incompetent, ignorant, arrogant, idiotic dunce who is clueless on nearly everything.
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If you had a quote of Obama saying something was a certainty you'd have something to argue about
let me know when you find it
It is currently still on his website, stating that premiums will go down, what more do you want you imbecile ?
For the 5th time:
From the White House website:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
"What will health reform mean for you?"
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
"premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent."
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It is currently still on his website , stating that premiums will do down, what more do you want you imbecile ?
Straw will NEVER admit to Obama's disastrous failures.
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Straw will NEVER admit to Obama's disastrous failures.
I've told you many things he has done that I don't like (remember the so called financial reform)
the difference is that I'm not a right wing lunatic who think Obama is a secret commie intent on destroying out country
when you start with that outlook then of course you're going to go apeshit over every little thing you think support your insane premise
that's the difference
I'm rational
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This thread is fucking embarrassing. One of Obama's main selling points to the American populace was that premiums would go down. In-fact, the people pushing this bill wouldn't STFU about it. How anyone can actually deny that he and his cronies on the left said that is beyond me.
This is why there should be some sort of intelligence requirement for voting.
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I've told you many things he has done that I don't like (remember the so called financial reform)
the difference is that I'm not a right wing lunatic who think Obama is a secret commie intent on destroying out country
when you start with that outlook then of course you're going to go apeshit over every little thing you think support your insane premise
that's the difference
I'm rational
for gods' sake straw - james posted a direct quote from ZEROs' website and that is not enough for you? ::) ::)
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for gods' sake straw - james posted a direct quote from ZEROs' website and that is not enough for you? ::) ::)
Like most Obamabots, he can't accept the truth. It's hard to leave that little fairy tale utopian bubble most of them live in.
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This is too funny.
This is the thread that just keeps on giving !!!
;D
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"Obamabots, like vegetables, ask no questions"
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This is too funny.
This is the thread that just keeps on giving !!!
;D
James did you ever see Straws' thread about George Washington or calling me out on communism?
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"Obamabots, like vegetables, ask no questions"
So true.
James did you ever see Straws' thread about George Washington or calling me out on communism?
I must have missed that jewel !!!
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James did you ever see Straws' thread about George Washington or calling me out on communism?
I recall you lost on the first 2 examples and then gave up
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I recall you lost on the first 2 examples and then gave up
What world do you live in? You were thoroughly beat down by half a dozen different posters in that thread.
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I have to leave for lunch, be back in an less than an hour, please keep this thread going !!
;D
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I have to leave for lunch, be back in an less than an hour, please keep this thread going !!
;D
:D
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for gods' sake straw - james posted a direct quote from ZEROs' website and that is not enough for you? ::) ::)
obviously not
and I've given you all my reasons
you just don't like them which is not my problem
feel free to continue being pissed off at any transgression, real or imagined.
Shit, you're easily pissed off enough for at least 2 people so why should I make the effort
As always, I have some things that I don't like and some things that I don't think are a big deal (or are just a fabrication)
You're in a state of perpetual anger and you feed it everday with anything that you can think or imagine fits your narrative
I try to help you when I can
I have a lot of patience today but it's almost gone
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I recall you lost on the first 2 examples and then gave up
::) ::)
Its impossible to argue with someone with clinically insane like yourself.
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obviously not
and I've given you all my reasons
you just don't like them which is not my problem
feel free to continue being pissed off at any transgression, real or imagined.
Shit, you're easily pissed off enough for at least 2 people so why should I make the effort
As always, I have some things that I don't like and some things that I don't think are a big deal (or are just a fabrication)
You're in a state of perpetual anger and you feed it everday with anything that you can think or imagine fits your narrative
I try to help you when I can
I have a lot of patience today but it's almost gone
so basically your answer is that even Obama's own words, objective facts, reality on the ground, are never enough for you to concede defeat or failure?
Seriously, I have never encountered a more delusional, obtuse, brain dead, and ignorant person as yourself.
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so basically your answer is that even Obama's own words, objective facts, reality on the ground, are never enough for you to concede defeat or failure?
Seriously, I have never encountered a more delusional, obtuse, brain dead, and ignorant person as yourself.
The best part is that his vote cancels out the vote of someone with an IQ over 50. :-\
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so basically your answer is that even Obama's own words, objective facts, reality on the ground, are never enough for you to concede defeat or failure?
Seriously, I have never encountered a more delusional, obtuse, brain dead, and ignorant person as yourself.
I understand
nuance is hard on you
black and white is much easier
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I understand
nuance is hard on you
black and white is much easier
Where is the freaking nuance? His website? Nope?
His speeches? Nope?
his statements leading up to the vote on this sham? nope?
Tell me, where is the nuance? This isnt event remotely close to Kerry's war vote either, so don't pull that BS either.
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Where is the freaking nuance? His website? Nope?
His speeches? Nope?
his statements leading up to the vote on this sham? nope?
Tell me, where is the nuance? This isnt event remotely close to Kerry's war vote either, so don't pull that BS either.
why would there be questions and answer about how and when premiums could go up if they are only supposed to go down forever?
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The health insurance mandate is so unconstitutional, it is amazing that it ever got passed. I see no way it can be enforced, but if the Supreme Court rules in favor of the mandate, our freedom is gone for good. Our freedom gives us the right to forego participation in all commerce. We have the right to just exist. Obamacare has made that a crime, you have to exist and buy healthcare. Truly unbelievable that this administration has forced this down our throats, constitution be damned. Americans will riot before paying a dime.
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why would there be questions and answer about how and when premiums could go up if they are only supposed to go down forever?
::) ::)
Between the videos, the website, the speeches, the pr announcements, etc, only an absolutely dunce like yourself would believe anything other than the fact that Obama was promising premiums and prices would come down.
Straw - serious question - are you being paid by the WH to post here?
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The health insurance mandate is so unconstitutional, it is amazing that it ever got passed. I see no way it can be enforced, but if the Supreme Court rules in favor of the mandate, our freedom is gone for good. Our freedom gives us the right to forego participation in all commerce. We have the right to just exist. Obamacare has made that a crime, you have to exist and buy healthcare. Truly unbelievable that this administration has forced this down our throats, constitution be damned. Americans will riot before paying a dime.
According to Straw - GW would agree with this. ::) ::)
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why would there be questions and answer about how and when premiums could go up if they are only supposed to go down forever?
The White House website states that everyones rates would go down, the questions and answers that you are referring are the so called safeguards that will be used to keep the rates down in the future. to keep the insurance Carriers from raising them back up in the future. Obama said pass this Bill and they will go down, and once they go down, they will stay down.
Did Obama say premiums would go down ? Yes !
Does it still today on the White House website state that premiums will do down ? yes !
Question: Has anyone's rates gone down ? yes or no ?
Honestly Straw, you need help.
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::) ::)
Between the videos, the website, the speeches, the pr announcements, etc, only an absolutely dunce like yourself would believe anything other than the fact that Obama was promising premiums and prices would come down.
Straw - serious question - are you being paid by the WH to post here?
yes - I'm paid by the WH to post here
now you asked me a question about nuance and I answered it
the source is from the very same website where you (or someone) pulled the Q & A that has you so upset (today)
why don't you try responding back to that so we can have an actual dialogue?
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The website and Obama both state that everyone rates would go down, the questions and answers that you are referring are the so called safeguards that will be used to keep the rates down in the future. to keep the insurance Carriers from raising them back up in the future. Obama said pass this Bill and they will go down, and once they go down, they will stay down.
Did Obama say premiums would go down ? Yes !
Does it still today on the White House website state that premiums will do down ? yes !
Question, Has anyone's rates gone down ? yes or no ?
Honestly Straw, you need help.
does the very same website also address scenarios where premium might go up
the answer of cours is YES so why do you ignore that and only look at the one thing that support your pre-conceived rage
Here's another Q &A from that very same page:
Q: What will happen if my insurance company raises my rates?
A: The President’s plan requires public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs, so that you can be certain you are getting the best value for your premium dollars.
•If your insurance company spends too much of your premium dollars on overhead, such as big salaries, administrative costs and marketing, they will be required to give you a rebate.
•Until the insurance exchange marketplace is up and running, there will be a process for annual reviews of all requested increases in premiums. Insurance companies that raise rates arbitrarily will not be allowed to sell policies in the new insurance marketplace. This process continues even once the Exchange is up and running.
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does the very same website also address scenarios where premium might go up
the answer of cours is YES so why do you ignore that and only look at the one thing that support your pre-conceived rage
Here's another Q &A from that very same page:
Q: What will happen if my insurance company raises my rates?
A: The President’s plan requires public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs, so that you can be certain you are getting the best value for your premium dollars.
•If your insurance company spends too much of your premium dollars on overhead, such as big salaries, administrative costs and marketing, they will be required to give you a rebate.
•Until the insurance exchange marketplace is up and running, there will be a process for annual reviews of all requested increases in premiums. Insurance companies that raise rates arbitrarily will not be allowed to sell policies in the new insurance marketplace. This process continues even once the Exchange is up and running.
yes pea brain, it states the rates will do down, and also discuses the steps the government will use in the future to keep the American Seniors Insurance (http://www.americanseniors.com/) insurance carriers from unfairly trying to raising them back up.
So once again, the white house website says rates will do down, and they are not going down, just the opposite.
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does the very same website also address scenarios where premium might go up
the answer of cours is YES so why do you ignore that and only look at the one thing that support your pre-conceived rage
Here's another Q &A from that very same page:
Q: What will happen if my insurance company raises my rates?
A: The President’s plan requires public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs, so that you can be certain you are getting the best value for your premium dollars.
•If your insurance company spends too much of your premium dollars on overhead, such as big salaries, administrative costs and marketing, they will be required to give you a rebate.
•Until the insurance exchange marketplace is up and running, there will be a process for annual reviews of all requested increases in premiums. Insurance companies that raise rates arbitrarily will not be allowed to sell policies in the new insurance marketplace. This process continues even once the Exchange is up and running.
What a pathetic joke you are Straw. you are the very defintion of lackey and boot-licker if there ever was one.
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What a pathetic joke you are Straw. you are the very defintion of lackey and boot-licker if there ever was one.
putting aside your need to insult me (have I made any insult to you on this thread?)
why don't you try to explain why that question even exists if in your mind Obama had already promised that premiums would only go down
It's on the very same list of Q&A that you (I think it was you) posted earlier
how is that even possible?
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putting aside your need to insult me (have I made any insult to you on this thread?)
why don't you try to explain why that question even exists if in your mind Obama had already promised that premiums would only go down
It's on the very same list of Q&A that you (I think it was you) posted earlier
how is that even possible?
Once again pea brain, it states the rates will do down, and also discuses the steps the government will use in the future to keep the insurance carriers from unfairly trying to raise them back up.
So once again, the white house website says rates will do down, and they are not going down, just the opposite.
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putting aside your need to insult me (have I made any insult to you on this thread?)
why don't you try to explain why that question even exists if in your mind Obama had already promised that premiums would only go down
It's on the very same list of Q&A that you (I think it was you) posted earlier
how is that even possible?
Straw - its hard discussing anything with you when in the face of irrefutable evidence that Obama promised rates and premiuims and costs would go down, you still kneepad him whe it is plainly obvious that the opposite is occuring.
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Once again pea brain, it states the rates will do down, and also discuses the steps the government will use in the future to keep the insurance carriers from unfairly trying to raise them back up.
So once again, the white house website says rates will do down, and they are not going down, just the opposite.
it also addresses when and how rates could go up and other nuances associated with rising rates
Yes or No?
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it also addresses when and how rates could go up and other nuances associated with rising rates
Yes or No?
in the future dip shit, (I already discussed this). but it first states that rates will do down. it says it in black and white:
Once again pea brain, it states the rates will do down, and then also discuses the steps the government will use in the future to keep the insurance carriers from unfairly trying to raise them back up.
For the 6th freaking time:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/questions/buy-own-insurance
"What will health reform mean for you?"
Q: Will I pay more than I am paying today?
A: No.
"premiums are expected to drop by 14 to 20 percent."
Anyone's rates gone down the expected "14 to 20 percent" ? NO !!!!!!!!
Anyone's rates gone down at all ? NO !!!!!!!!
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it also addresses when and how rates could go up and other nuances associated with rising rates
Yes or No?
But rates are going up now fool and he is not doing dick about it other than sending bogus threats via Sebellius.
this is all while everyone is getting socked with higher costs, and soon massive tax hikes when everyone gets the bill for t tens of millions going on to medicaid.
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This is like arguing with someone who is unfortunately suffering from Alzheimer's or down's syndrome.
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This is like arguing with someone who is unfortunately suffering from Alzheimer's or down's syndrome.
Straw is a textbook example of the typical far left lib.
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Straw - you have really had some doozies in threads, but I think this one might actually take the cake.
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Straw - you have really had some doozies in threads, but I think this one might actually take the cake.
This thread takes the entire Bakery!
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We need to flag this one for the history books.
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.Last Updated: September 16. 2010 1:00AM .Nolan Finley
On Obamacare, Wilson was rude but right
________________________ __________________-
It was a year ago this month that President Barack Obama stood before a joint session of Congress to confront accusations that his health care overhaul would be a national disaster, raising costs for everyone and putting Medicare at risk.
"Bogus claims," said the president.
"You lie!" shouted Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., from the gallery, in a break from decorum that was roundly and rightly chastised.
A year later, we know that Wilson was pretty much right -- Obama did trash the truth to make his health care train wreck seem as if it sprung from the Big Rock Candy Mountain. The president, who told Congress and the American people his bill would, "slow the growth of health care costs for our families, our businesses, and our government," now admits this isn't true.
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"As a consequence of us getting 30 million additional people health care, at the margins that's going to increase our costs -- we knew that," Obama said last week.
Of course he knew, but he wasn't saying so as he lobbied for the bill's passage. In his 2009 speech, Obama assured Americans the expense of extending coverage to the uninsured would be covered through cost cutting reforms.
In the six months since the president signed the bill, not one significant cost-cutting reform has been adopted. Congress, as predicted, avoided cutting Medicare reimbursement rates, a key component of Obama's projected savings.
Instead of declining, Medicare costs are expected to continue to rise at an average rate of 6.3 percent over the next decade.
And the pain to consumers is already being felt. Next week, the first mandates of Obamacare kick in, and will add 1 percent to 9 percent to insurance premiums.
Those requirements, including the creation of high-risk insurance pools and allowing "children" to stay on their parent's plans until age 26, will boost health expenditures by $10.2 billion over the next 2 1/2 years, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Consumers will pay every dime.
Much of Obama's 2009 speech was aimed at reassuring seniors that Medicare as they knew it would not change, except to become more efficient. But the bill is now expected to drive at least 50 percent of seniors out of Medicare Advantage plans, raising their out-of-pocket costs.
At the other end of the age spectrum, the low-premium, high-deductible catastrophic polices favored by students and young adults are also at risk because of the bill's mandates.
So much for Obama's promise that, "Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have."
As for Obama's assurance that he wouldn't put private insurers out of business, his Health and Human Services secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, this week contradicted that claim in warning insurance companies not to blame rate hikes on Obamacare lest they be cut off from government payments. In other words, toe the administration's propaganda line or risk going to the gulag. Even free speech is sacrificed to keep the Big Lie of Obamacare from exposure.
Nearly all of the promises the president made in advance of Obamacare's passage are unraveling.
There's no reason to trust that any of the benefits touted by Obama will materialize, or not to fear that all of the doomsday scenarios -- from rationing to the collapse of the private medical system -- won't.
Joe Wilson, you were rude. But you were right.
Nolan Finley is editorial page editor of The News. Reach him at nfinley@detnews.com.
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100916/OPINION03/9160336/1008/OPINION01/On-Obamacare--Wilson-was-rude-but-right#ixzz0zkR5DZhZ
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Straw Man can't possibly recover from this.
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Bump
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Obama and the idiots who supported him think businesses are in business to be nothing more than employment agencies and to lose money.
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Health Care Reform Blamed for Huge Hike in Premiums
By BOB CONNORS
Updated 3:22 PM EDT, Fri, Oct 15, 2010
________________________ ________________________ ____________
The state has given Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield the go ahead to raise premiums by as much as 47 percent for some members, and says health care reform is the reason why.
Attorney General Richard Blumenthal sent a letter to Insurance Commissioner Thomas Sullivan on Oct. 6, asking what he called "excessive" increases were approved without full consideration of all the facts. His letter mentioned rate increases for both Anthem and Aetna.
The new rates took effect Oct. 1, and include increases from 19 percent all the way to 47 percent depending on the individual, the Hartford Courant reported.
Sullivan responded to Blumenthal saying the new rates included "very rich benefits" mandated by federal law.
"There is not one person in the state of Connecticut who will see an increase in their current premiums based on what the department approved for Anthem and Aetna," Sullivan said in a release. "The rates that were filed and approved reflect the current cost to deliver care and the impact of more comprehensive benefit designs required under the federal healthcare reform law. If the attorney general wants to complain to someone, he should complain to Congress."
People who were enrolled in the Anthem program prior to the increase will not see a change, according to the agency. The increased rates will be applied to new customers.
In a letter to Blumenthal, Sullivan said the rates granted were reduced from the company's original request of 39 percent to 58 percent increases.
"I find myself in an unprecedented place and time, as do my counterparts throughout the country, in overseeing one of the most far-reaching policy initiatives enacted by the federal government in recent history," Sullivan said in the letter. "It is unfortunate that this reform, while addressing insurer behavior, has provided little to no reform of the escalating costs of the health care delivery system."
First Published: Oct 15, 2010 12:51 PM EDT
Find this article at:
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local-beat/Health-Care-Reform-Blamed-for-Huge-Hike-in-Premiums-105041674.html
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I want to hear what the White House has to say about this.
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I want to hear what the White House has to say about this.
And the rest of the fucking fools who supported obamacare believing all the lies and ponies he promised.