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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Benny B on October 23, 2010, 08:37:51 AM
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There are a number things the public “knows” as we head into the election that are just false. If people elect leaders based on false information, the things those leaders do in office will not be what the public expects or needs.
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:
1) President Obama tripled the deficit.Reality: Bush’s last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama’s first reduced that to $1.29 trillion.
2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the “stimulus” was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.
3) President Obama bailed out the banks.Reality: While many people conflate the “stimulus” with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be “non-reviewable by any court or any agency.”) The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.
4) The stimulus didn’t work.Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.
5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.
6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.
7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is “going broke,” people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.
Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.
Spread this list around, please. We have less than two weeks before people actually vote.
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too little too late
voting booths closed before the Olympia pre-judging
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2010/2010-supplement-awards.jpg)
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There are a number things the public “knows” as we head into the election that are just false. If people elect leaders based on false information, the things those leaders do in office will not be what the public expects or needs.
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:
1) President Obama tripled the deficit.Reality: Bush’s last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama’s first reduced that to $1.29 trillion.
2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the “stimulus” was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.
3) President Obama bailed out the banks.Reality: While many people conflate the “stimulus” with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be “non-reviewable by any court or any agency.”) The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.
4) The stimulus didn’t work.Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.
5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.
6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.
7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is “going broke,” people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.
Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.
Spread this list around, please. We have less than two weeks before people actually vote.
I like you didn't include a link. You and your party are delusional little people.
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So you love ebony cock, eh Benny?
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Hey Benny Hill....Fuck Off!!
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bush fucked the states for the next 20 years, someone should really get rid of that family
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bush fucked the states for the next 20 years, someone should really get rid of that family
as much as i dislike bush, it wasnt bush that caused our problems. it is the corporate lobby's and the conservatist economic policies that have caused our problems. bush just played the role.
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as much as i dislike bush, it wasnt bush that caused our problems. it is the corporate lobby's and the conservatist economic policies that have caused our problems. bush just played the role.
Agreed bush was a fucking pussy that gave in to the powers at be just so he could be the pres. Obama ain't bad at all. In no other country in the world would a guy get so much flac for doing abosoutley nothing. His healthcare bill was probally my only gripe, although I'd never give up my free health care.
Obama got on board at the wrong time, but I digress. Getting involved in american politics now is like getting into fascism in 1944.
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Agreed bush was a fucking pussy that gave in to the powers at be just so he could be the pres. Obama ain't bad at all. In no other country in the world would a guy get so much flac for doing abosoutley nothing. His healthcare bill was probally my only gripe, although I'd never give up my free health care.
Obama got on board at the wrong time, but I digress. Getting involved in american politics now is like getting into fascism in 1944.
yeah, he campaigned on universal healthcare coverage for all citizens. all we got was a law demanding every citizen buy healthcare, and a guarantee that we woudl be able to do so even if we are currently sick/injured.
i guess, technically, that woud cover everybody. :-\
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Nixon really screwed the states, Lincoln really screwed the states, blah blah blah. Get with the present jackoffs.
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Benny Blanco,
This is some of the dumbbest 'false' thing ever - and so wrong. But it gave me a good laugh.
Obviously you are a Democrat, and hopefully in two weeks, the Democrats are going to lose a ton of support with all of the bullcrap they have been spewing out here.
Unfortunately in California, they can spew their crap and get away with it. But around the rest of the country, people have learned in the last 2 years.
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Benny Blanco,
This is some of the dumbbest 'false' thing ever - and so wrong. But it gave me a good laugh.
Obviously you are a Democrat, and hopefully in two weeks, the Democrats are going to lose a ton of support with all of the bullcrap they have been spewing out here.
Unfortunately in California, they can spew their crap and get away with it. But around the rest of the country, people have learned in the last 2 years.
such as...?
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Benny Blanco,
This is some of the dumbbest 'false' thing ever - and so wrong. But it gave me a good laugh.
Obviously you are a Democrat, and hopefully in two weeks, the Democrats are going to lose a ton of support with all of the bullcrap they have been spewing out here.
Unfortunately in California, they can spew their crap and get away with it. But around the rest of the country, people have learned in the last 2 years.
The Dems can run Lindsey Lohan and automatically get 46% of the votes here. Y'all would be truely amazed at how blindly party line the average leftist in CA is.
We are going to get Jerry Brown for Governor in a couple weeks. Really? A guy that runs on a 100% pro-union platform? That's what's best for CA?
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6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.
ost at least 115
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1. The number being claimed in this farce is a joke and a lie. The CBO scored the bill without including the doctor fix which adds 200 billion to the overall tab. Additionally, the CBO figure for the first ten years is misleading in that it includes only 6 years of benefits, but a full 10 years of tax collection. This again was done to fool the public.
2. The CBO has since uped its estimates and now says the bill will cost at least $114 Billion more than they said beofre the vote.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/11/great-news-cbo-says-obamacare-will-cost-115-billion-more-than-thought/
3. The bill costs a lot more than a trillion dollars and is funded by tax increases and 500 billion cut from medicaire. The assumptions of tax receipts are extremely unreasable and the govt will never get the amount of tax revenue as anticipated.
4. Obamacare is creating a MASSIVE unfunded mandate to the states since at least 16 million people are being moved to medicaid and the states are liable for 50% of the costs. Everyones' state taxes are going to skyrocket over this bill.
5. Historically, govt programs always cost far more than originally anticpated.
Botton line - when you add in the doctor fix, Obamcare is in the red by at least 70 billion in the first ten years, and gets drastically worse over time when benefits paid out and taxes received are equalized.
So this one is demonstrably false.
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7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is “going broke,” people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.
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Read and learn something for once Benny:
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Retiree Ponzi Scheme Is $16 Trillion Short: Laurence Kotlikoff
By Laurence Kotlikoff - Aug 24, 2010 9:00 PM ET Bloomberg Opinion
.Social Security just celebrated its 75th birthday. Love it or hate it, it has done its job and should retire. We need a new system, the Personal Security System, which retains Social Security’s best features, scraps the rest, and covers its costs.
Social Security’s objective -- forcing people to save for retirement -- is legit. Otherwise millions of us would seek handouts in our old age.
But Social Security has also played a central role in the massive, six-decade Ponzi scheme known as U.S. fiscal policy, which transfers ever-larger sums from the young to the old.
In so doing, Uncle Sam has assured successive young contributors that they would have their turn, in retirement, to get back much more than they put in. But all chain letters end, and the U.S.’s is now collapsing.
The letter’s last purchasers -- today’s and tomorrow’s youngsters -- face enormous increases in taxes and cuts in benefits. This fiscal child abuse, which will turn the American dream into a nightmare, is best summarized by the $202 trillion fiscal gap discussed in my last column.
The gap is the present value difference between future federal spending and revenue. Closing this gap via taxes requires doubling every tax we pay, starting now. Such a policy would hurt younger people much more than older ones because wages constitute most of the tax base.
What about cutting defense instead? Sadly, there’s no room there. The defense budget’s 5 percent share of gross domestic product is historically low and is projected to decline to 3 percent by 2020. And the $202 trillion figure already incorporates this huge defense cut.
The 3-Year-Old Vote
Reducing current benefits, most of which go to the elderly, is another option. But such a policy is highly unlikely. The elderly vote and are well-organized, whereas 3-year-olds can neither vote, nor buy Congressmen.
In contrast, cutting future benefits is politically feasible because it hits the young. And that’s where Congress is heading, starting with Social Security. The president’s fiscal commission will probably recommend raising Social Security’s full retirement age to 70 from 67, for those who are now younger than 45. This won’t change the ages at which future retirees can start collecting benefits. It will simply cut by one-fifth what they get.
Some political economists point to Social Security’s 2010 Trustees Report and say, “Leave it alone. The system won’t run short of cash until 2037.”
Misleading Accounting
Unfortunately, the Trustees’ cash-flow accounting, like all such accounting, is arbitrary and misleading. In fact, Social Security is broke. Its fiscal gap, which the Trustees measure correctly, is $16 trillion.
This gap is small compared with the U.S.’s overall $202 trillion shortfall, not because the Trustees treat Social Security’s $2.5 trillion trust fund as an asset (a questionable choice), but because they credit one-third of federal revenue to the program.
But dollars are dollars. If we re-label Social Security “payroll” taxes as “general revenue wage taxes,” Social Security’s fiscal gap increases by $60 trillion, and the fiscal gap of all other government activities falls by $60 trillion, leaving the overall $202 trillion gap unchanged.
Even by the Trustees’ measure, there’s a massive problem. Coming up with $16 trillion requires permanently raising revenue or cutting benefits by 26 percent, starting now. In other words, the program is 26 percent underfunded.
Hitting Young People
Now cutting benefits of new retirees by 20 percent, with an increase in the so-called full retirement age, starting 20 or so years from now isn’t the same as immediately cutting the benefits of all retirees by 26 percent. Hence, the fiscal commissioners will need to hit young people with an even bigger whammy if they really want to solve Social Security’s long-term woes.
Most likely, Washington will simply raise the retirement age and kick the can further down the road. This is what the Greenspan Commission did in 1983, knowing full well that by 2010 the system would be in even worse shape.
I say, retire Social Security and replace it with a version that works. Do this by freezing the current system, paying today’s retirees their benefits, while paying workers only what they have accrued so far once they retire.
Next, have all workers contribute 8 percent of their pay to the new system, with half going to a personal account and half to an account of a spouse or legal partner. The federal government would make matching contributions for the poor, the disabled and the unemployed, permitting the system to be as progressive as desired.
Going Global
All contributions would be invested in a global, market- weighted index of stocks, bonds, and real estate. The government would do the investing at very low cost and guarantee that contributors’ account balances at retirement would equal at least what was contributed, adjusted for inflation.
Between ages 57 and 67, each worker’s balances would gradually be swapped for inflation-indexed annuities sold by the government. Those dying before 67 would bequeath their account balances to their heirs.
While this plan has private accounts, Wall Street plays no role and makes no money. Additional contributions would be used to fund life- and disability-insurance pools.
Our nation is in terribly hot water. Business as usual is no answer. The only way to move ahead is to radically reform our retirement, tax, health-care and financial institutions to achieve much more for a lot less.
The Personal Security System is a major step in that direction. It meets all the legitimate goals of Social Security without the system’s waste and penchant for robbing the young.
(Laurence J. Kotlikoff is a professor of economics at Boston University and author of “Jimmy Stewart Is Dead: Ending the World’s Ongoing Financial Plague with Limited Purpose Banking.” The opinions expressed are his own.)
To contact the writer of this column: Laurence Kotlikoff at kotlikoff@bu.edu
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THIS IS FROM THE CBO BENNY.
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Now 30 Year Olds Have Only A 13% Chance Of Getting Full Social Security Benefits
Business Insider ^ | 10/23/2010 | Bruce Krasting
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I wrote a piece on a federal retirement program that elicited some interesting comments. It was clear to me that there is already a negative bias toward the baby boomers. There is an understanding out there that the boomers are going to be sucking up a great deal of resources in the next decade or so. Some comments:
We have witnessed the unprecedented lack of fiscal responsibility from the majority "Baby Boomer" voter base.
We've met the enemy, and it is the emerging 'ruling class' pensioners of the Baby Boomer generation.
...get ready for AGE WARFARE
As if on cue, the Congressional Budget Office has thrown out some numbers to fire up this emotive issue. The CBO report confirmed (to me) that age warfare is in our future.
CBO looked at all of the scenarios regarding Social Security. They ran a total of 500 simulations that reflect the different variables of the puzzle. The analysis assumed that there would be no changes in current law on SS. The objective of the exercise was to quantify the probabilities of which generation would most likely not get the benefits they were (A) paying for, (B) entitled to and (C) expecting.
The results of the CBO analysis is that there is societal/economic trouble in front of us on this issue. It should come as no surprise to readers that if you are young, you have a problem. The CBO report defines which generation(s) will be hurt and by how much. I found their conclusions to be very troubling.
If you were born in the 1940’s the probability that you will receive 100% of your scheduled benefits is nearly 100%. The people in this age group will die before SS is forced to make cuts in scheduled benefits.
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
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Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.
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THIS HAS GOT TO BE ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS THINGS i HAVE EVER READ.
The govt doesnt create wealth, it destroys it. In order to get the money to spend the govt first has to either take it from the private sector in the form of taxes or go the magic money printing schemes at the Federal Reserves.
When the govt runs a deficit, it is financed by selling treasuries and bonds to creditors that it then has to pay back at a later date. This is essence is the same as paying for bubble gum on a credit card. You are paying it off long after the usefulness of the gum has worn off.
Additionally, this paragrpah neglects to mention the devaluation of the dollar the accompanies such money priniting to finance the spending addition. So the end result is taxpayers with less purchasing power, higher taxes, and a lower standard of living.
What a ridiuclous paragraph this is also in the sense that the author seems to be intimating that things would be even better if we taxed everyone at 100% and spent literally as much as we could print at the federal reserve. This is beyond insane to all but those who don't work and pay taxes.
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4) The stimulus didn’t work.Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.
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Beyond ridiculous.
1. At a cost of nearly a trillion dollars - this amounts to anywhere from $600k to about 200k per job saved or created - even if that is true - which it is not. Most of those were one time temp jobs and make work that lasted for a brief period of time.
2. Obama promised that unless we passed his stim bill - UE would go beyond 8%. now - with the Stim Bill - we are at 9.7% and 17.6% according to the U6 Number.
3. The Stim Bill was supposed to halt job losses. However - that has not occured in the least bit.
4. Most of the money was wasted on state bloated budgets and keeping their insane spending going. Now that the money is running out, the states are going to have to lay people off that should have been laid off in the beginning. So the net effect will be 868 Billion in debt, and the job losses to boot.
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2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the “stimulus” was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.
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Obama did raise taxes via ObamaCare and imposed numerous costs, mandates, burdens, regulations, and other red tape on businesses that have the same exact impact on business.
He hurt the economy by proposing a series of items like card check, obamacare, cap & trade, FINREG, etc, all of which have created a tremendous amount of uncertainty which has caused businesses to not hire.
Finally with respect to the alleged tax cut in the stim bill - he did not cut taxes - he gave a one time tax credit of 8 dollars a week, which is a joke and does nothing to sup economic activity, especially when energy prices and food prices are skyrocketing due to weakness in the dollar due to the insane deficit spending and federal reserve money games to sustain the crazy level of govt spending.
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Apparently they aren't false
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5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.
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True - but customers are losing a tremendous amount of purchasing power due to the devaluation of the dollar, increasing health costs, increasing locsl taxes, etc.
So there is not going to be demand for more businesses products since the customer is poorer and poorer as a result of govt policies.
Additionlly - customers donmt want to take on more debt to finance consumption, so basically, everyone is going to have to readjust to this.
Businesses may not be craving a tax cut, but they also dont want a massive tax increase like obamacare, card check, cap & trade, either. Those items foster more layoffs and UE.
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3) President Obama bailed out the banks.Reality: While many people conflate the “stimulus” with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be “non-reviewable by any court or any agency.”) The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.
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Obama campaigned for and voted for TARP. He appointed Giethner - Paulsons' right hand man in TARP, as Tres. Sec.
Obama urged support for its passage and continued all of the policies once he took over. He continued the AIG bailout, continued the Fanny bailout, continued the GM bailout, and all of the others.
He has appointed Summers, Geithner, Bernake re appointment, Jacob Lew, and many other wall street hacks into high office.
Sorry - this is probably one of the most laughable on the list.
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1) President Obama tripled the deficit.Reality: Bush’s last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama’s first reduced that to $1.29 trillion.
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Spending bills originate in the House of Reps. Since the Democrats have controlled the Congress in 2007, the budget deficits have skyrocketed. Obama voted for those budgets and in fact advocated far great spending.
Yes bush spent too much, but the reality is that Obama has not made even one single solitary step to ease the deficit, and it making it worse by advoating policies that will destroy the budget even worse.
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why do you guys eben click on benny blanco threads?
i never ever waste my time with them...
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why do you guys eben click on benny blanco threads?
i never ever waste my time with them...
Makes for good laughs.
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So the question is, will Benny respond with counter points to your counter points or will Benny throw out a few insults and run or ignore your reponses altogether?
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So the question is, will Benny respond with counter points to your counter points or will Benny throw out a few insults and run or ignore your reponses altogether?
youtube video... ;)
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youtube video... ;)
Yeah......
Will Benny:
A. Throw out some insults?
B. Paste a bunch of tedious you tube clips?
C. Ignore the counter points altogether?
D. All or some or one of the above?
E. Construct a legitimate argument with links for back ups free of ad. Hom?
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Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.
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THIS HAS GOT TO BE ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS THINGS i HAVE EVER READ.
The govt doesnt create wealth, it destroys it. In order to get the money to spend the govt first has to either take it from the private sector in the form of taxes or go the magic money printing schemes at the Federal Reserves.
When the govt runs a deficit, it is financed by selling treasuries and bonds to creditors that it then has to pay back at a later date. This is essence is the same as paying for bubble gum on a credit card. You are paying it off long after the usefulness of the gum has worn off.
Additionally, this paragrpah neglects to mention the devaluation of the dollar the accompanies such money priniting to finance the spending addition. So the end result is taxpayers with less purchasing power, higher taxes, and a lower standard of living.
What a ridiuclous paragraph this is also in the sense that the author seems to be intimating that things would be even better if we taxed everyone at 100% and spent literally as much as we could print at the federal reserve. This is beyond insane to all but those who don't work and pay taxes.
Agreed. How exactly do people think the government creates wealth?
What the fuck are taxes for then? I have a business. I don't get tax money to fund my projects.....I have to use the wealth I create for that. If the government is creating wealth too, then they can use that money to fund their garbage programs.
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Agreed. How exactly do people think the government creates wealth?
What the fuck are taxes for then? I have a business. I don't get tax money to fund my projects.....I have to use the wealth I create for that. If the government is creating wealth too, then they can use that money to fund their garbage programs.
I suppose you don't have to use roads or the postal service or phones and the infra-structure in general to help run your business. Why you could move your business to the middle of a forest in the middle of nowhere and it would work just as well.
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I suppose you don't have to use roads or the postal service or phones and the infra-structure in general to help run your business. Why you could move your business to the middle of a forest in the middle of nowhere and it would work just as well.
We pay gas taxes to fund roads remember? Both State and Federal. Where has all the money gone?
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Remember who has had control of the congress since 2007 folks. It is going to be a joyous day to get rid of this disaster.
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I suppose you don't have to use roads or the postal service or phones and the infra-structure in general to help run your business. Why you could move your business to the middle of a forest in the middle of nowhere and it would work just as well.
This is same old weak argument, most if not all don't have a problem with paying taxes for the above things, its the African Ball washing campaigns and other outright fucking waste of tax payer money that gets people pissed off.
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BUMP for a left wing rebuttal.
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2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the “stimulus” was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.
This is a liberal lie.Tax rates have not been reduced AT ALL under Obama.Obama gave tax rebates that ammounted to 13 dollars a week.A liberal lie.
4) The stimulus didn’t work.Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.
A lie.We have lost 3 million jobs SINCE the stimulus was passed.It has created ZERO jobs as UE rates contimue to go up,including losing 94,000 jobs just last month.
Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.
Government wastes money and everything they do,they do poorly.
7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is “going broke,” people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.
Social security this year will take in less then it pays out for the first time in history.This is a liberal lie.
6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.
And raise premiums and cause companies to drop health care or up the price.Super,just what we want in this economy.
5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.
An absurd notion.Buisiness will hire if demand is there AND they have the revenue to hire.If they dont have the revenue they will have one employee do the job of three emloyees.Cutting corporate taxes and/or pay roll taxes will spur hiring.
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This thread is the perefect example of why democrats, leftists, communists, liberals, progressives, marxists, et al are killing this nation.
They go to the voting booth so utterly ignorant of basic concepts of economics its not even funny any more.
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Inherited a f'n mess from Bush. Tough place to be.
No one forced him to spend a year and a half on health care. This mess is on him alone.
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Inherited a f'n mess from Bush. Tough place to be.
Ah another retard that doesn't seem to understand that congress controls the money, I guess him being the Senator for IL and all he had no idea how bad it was ::)
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Inherited a f'n mess from Bush. Tough place to be.
Funny,Reagan inherrited a worse economy from Carter I dont recall him bitching about Carter over and over and over again.
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Funny,Reagan inherrited a worse economy from Carter I dont recall him bitching about Carter over and over and over again.
Where is a rebutal to my points from the Obama kneepad crew?
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Funny,Reagan inherrited a worse economy from Carter I dont recall him bitching about Carter over and over and over again.
Not true at ALL.
The economy was not worse at that time... As a matter of fact... It's pretty well known that the official recession didn't start until after Carter was no longer in office.
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Not true at ALL.
The economy was not worse at that time... As a matter of fact... It's pretty well known that the official recession didn't start until after Carter was no longer in office.
So now you are blaming the recession that occurred as he entered into office? funny - you guys want to blame Reagan for the mess, but obama get a free pass.
Got it.
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So now you are blaming the recession that occurred as he entered into office? funny - you guys want to blame Reagan for the mess, but obama get a free pass.
Got it.
Woh woh... Nope.
I'm just saying the facts.
Also the recession this last time DID happen under Bush and according to economists... we are now out of under Obama.
I'm not saying any person has any real power over it... I'm just saying the facts.
Please stop with the "You guys" crap just because my truth is in fact, TRUE.
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Woh woh... Nope.
I'm just saying the facts.
Also the recession this last time DID happen under Bush and according to economists... we are now out of under Obama.
I'm not saying any person has any real power over it... I'm just saying the facts.
Please stop with the "You guys" crap just because my truth is in fact, TRUE.
ha ha ha - out of what?
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In all reality the recession and subsequent recovery appears to be a lot of Paul Volkers doing during Carter/Reagan
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ha ha ha - out of what?
According to economists, the recession which was started under Bush was ended under obama.
Are you saying that the econs are lying to me? Or that you have top secret economic info that we aren't out of it but everyone is keeping it under wraps?
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Reagan did good. He DEFICIT SPENT us out of recession. :D :D :D :D :D
(http://mosquito.25.free.fr/LFS/Fakes/en/Troll%27s%20Brain%20and%20memory.gif)
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According to economists, the recession which was started under Bush was ended under obama.
Are you saying that the econs are lying to me? Or that you have top secret economic info that we aren't out of it but everyone is keeping it under wraps?
Do you really think the recession is over? I don't see it, just because the government spends a bunch of money and props up GDP, does not a recovery make
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According to economists, the recession which was started under Bush was ended under obama.
Are you saying that the econs are lying to me? Or that you have top secret economic info that we aren't out of it but everyone is keeping it under wraps?
Yeah, if you call printing money through the Fed Reserve to artifically prop up GDP, through a devaluation of the dollar, all while we have 10% UE, as coming out of a recession, fine, have fune with it.
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Yeah, if you call printing money through the Fed Reserve to artifically prop up GDP, through a devaluation of the dollar, all while we have 10% UE, as coming out of a recession, fine, have fune with it.
That is pure opinion and not really a status on the economy.
Do you really think the recession is over? I don't see it, just because the government spends a bunch of money and props up GDP, does not a recovery make
I have seen my company finally have a profitable quarter since the crash in 2007, so while it may be hard to see, I do in fact think that if it's not "over", it is at least stable... First quarter in almost 3 years where we had a net gain and not a net loss.
So I do think "something" good is happening.
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That is pure opinion and not really a status on the economy.
I have seen my company finally have a profitable quarter since the crash in 2007, so while it may be hard to see, I do in fact think that if it's not "over", it is at least stable... First quarter in almost 3 years where we had a net gain and not a net loss.
So I do think "something" good is happening.
Remains to be seen, but the government can't keep printing money backed by nothing to prop up the economy. What happens when the stimulus money runs out?
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Remains to be seen, but the government can't keep printing money backed by nothing to prop up the economy. What happens when the stimulus money runs out?
No disagreement there... I think that we've done as much as we can throwing money at it and it's time to let the way of the market take over.
I think the disaster was mostly averted and that the ship will have to right itself.
That's capitalism anyway... Market bearing what it can bear.
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That is pure opinion and not really a status on the economy.
I have seen my company finally have a profitable quarter since the crash in 2007, so while it may be hard to see, I do in fact think that if it's not "over", it is at least stable... First quarter in almost 3 years where we had a net gain and not a net loss.
So I do think "something" good is happening.
Yeah - record levels on UE assistance, record levels on food stamps, weekly jobless claims are still at 450k a week, record levels of debt, increasing UE, and the recession over? Ha ha ha.
Even Obama's butt budy Krugman is saying we are in collapse.
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No disagreement there... I think that we've done as much as we can throwing money at it and it's time to let the way of the market take over.
I think the disaster was mostly averted and that the ship will have to right itself.
That's capitalism anyway... Market bearing what it can bear.
We didnt avert anything - we kicked the can downt eh road and fooled ourselves into thinking we can print money to solve our problems.
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We didnt avert anything - we kicked the can downt eh road and fooled ourselves into thinking we can print money to solve our problems.
So what? Let me ask you something?
You do realize that the top 3 are all of the deficit right?
75% of the US budget is in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.
What would you cut? Why? How?
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So what? Let me ask you something?
You do realize that the top 3 are all of the deficit right?
75% of the US budget is in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.
What would you cut? Why? How?
We have to cut everything. Do you remotely care about the value of the dollar?
Check this out.
www.usdebtclock.org
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We have to cut everything. Do you remotely care about the value of the dollar?
Check this out.
www.usdebtclock.org
Dude... I saw the debt clock back in like 2003 or something.
I know what our debt is... yes... I value the dollar.
I agree that we have to cut everything... Guess what. The Tea Party doesn't agree... They do not believe you should cut spending... Actually, the refuse to cut it.
The number one item in the US budget and they REFUSE to cut it.
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So what? Let me ask you something?
You do realize that the top 3 are all of the deficit right?
75% of the US budget is in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.
What would you cut? Why? How?
Id raise retirement to get social security to 72 years old for anyone under 55.I would bring ALL our troops home from foreign soil and close all military bases over seas unless we are at war.Medicare would have much greater oversight from NON GOVERNMENT firms to guard against waste and fraud.
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Dude... I saw the debt clock back in like 2003 or something.
I know what our debt is... yes... I value the dollar.
I agree that we have to cut everything... Guess what. The Tea Party doesn't agree... They do not believe you should cut spending... Actually, the refuse to cut it.
The number one item in the US budget and they REFUSE to cut it.
The "Tea Party" is not a party - its a movement of people with different agenda items.
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Not for nothing - but no one has refuted any of my points in this thread. Case closed.
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The "Tea Party" is not a party - its a movement of people with different agenda items.
Whatever you want to call them... All I'm saying is that they stand up and talk cut cut cut, but will refuse to cut the number one money spend of the US federal budget.
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Whatever you want to call them... All I'm saying is that they stand up and talk cut cut cut, but will refuse to cut the number one money spend of the US federal budget.
You have to look at it this way, the TEA party believes in the government following the constitution, one of the things the federal government is actually supposed to be doing is providing for defense of the nation. SS and Medicaid, as far as I'm concerned well beyond the powers of the federal government.
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You have to look at it this way, the TEA party believes in the government following the constitution, one of the things the federal government is actually supposed to be doing is providing for defense of the nation. SS and Medicaid, as far as I'm concerned well beyond the powers of the federal government.
Do you believe defending the nation should be fighting in foreign lands for no apparent reason?
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Whatever you want to call them... All I'm saying is that they stand up and talk cut cut cut, but will refuse to cut the number one money spend of the US federal budget.
Well, they should. We simply can not keep all of the promises we have made to everyone. There is not any mathmatical formula that exists to pay off the promises we have made to everyone.
That being said - tens of millions of people have paid in a lifetime of taxes into SS and medicare under the promise, as stupid as it is, that this money would be used responsibily by the govt for when they needed it.
I can understand why people of that age are reluctant at this point since they have paid ni their entire lives.
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Do you believe defending the nation should be fighting in foreign lands for no apparent reason?
Do I think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were wrong? no. Do I think trying to nation build in the ME is a dumbass idea? Absolutely.
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Looks like the apologists are proven wrong again.
________________________ ________________________ ______
Treasury Hid A.I.G. Loss, Report Says
Published: Tuesday, 26 Oct 2010 | 8:37 AM
Mary Williams Walsh
www.cnbc.com
________________________ _______________
The United States Treasury concealed $40 billion in likely taxpayer losses on the bailout of the American International Group earlier this month, when it abandoned its usual method for valuing investments, according to a report by the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
The United States Treasury concealed $40 billion in likely taxpayer losses according to a report by the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
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“In our view, this is a significant failure in their transparency,” said Neil M. Barofsky, the inspector general, in an interview on Monday.
In early October, the Treasury issued a report predicting that the taxpayers would ultimately lose just $5 billion on their investment in A.I.G. [AIG 41.73 0.63 (+1.53%) ], a remarkable outcome, since the insurance company was extended $182 billion in taxpayer money in the early months of its rescue. The prediction of a modest loss, widely reported as A.I.G., the Federal Reserve and the Treasury rushed to complete an exit plan, contrasted with an earlier prediction by the Treasury that the taxpayers would lose $45 billion.
“The American people have a right for full and complete disclosure about their investment in A.I.G.,” Mr. Barofsky said, “and the U.S. government has an obligation, when they’re describing potential losses, to give complete information.”
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An official of the Treasury disputed Mr. Barofsky’s conclusions, saying the department appropriately used different methods for different purposes. He said the smaller loss was a projection of future events, and the larger one was the result of an audit, which includes only realized gains and losses.
The Treasury will include more information about A.I.G. when it issues its own audited financial statement in November. Because those numbers must pass an auditor’s scrutiny, the loss it reports is likely to grow once again, to more than $5 billion.
Members of Congress who have been critical of the federal bailouts jumped on Monday to commend the special inspector general and challenge the varying numbers.
“If a private company filed information with the government that was just as misleading and disingenuous as what Treasury has done here, you’d better believe there would be calls for an investigation from the S.E.C. and others,” said Representative Darrell Issa, the senior Republican on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. He called the Treasury’s October report on A.I.G. “blatant manipulation.”
Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican on the Finance Committee, said he thought “administration officials are trying so hard to put a positive spin on program losses that they played fast and loose with the numbers.” He said it reminded him of “misleading” claims that General Motors had paid back its rescue loans with interest ahead of schedule.
Mr. Barofsky said he had written to the Treasury secretary, Timothy F. Geithner, in mid-October, after widespread reports in the news media about the possibility that the Treasury could wind down its position in A.I.G. with just a $5 billion loss. He recommended that the Treasury correct the October report, perhaps by adding a footnote saying the methodology for calculating its losses had changed.
The Treasury declined. It sent back a letter saying its methodology for calculating losses had not really changed, although its assumptions had. For instance, it based the values of several future transactions on the current price of A.I.G.’s common stock. The letter, signed by Timothy G. Massad, the acting assistant secretary for financial stability, said this reflected the fact that a crucial component of its exit strategy would be the exchange of preferred for common stock.
Mr. Barofsky said the government failed to account for the volatility of A.I.G.’s common stock. A relatively small portion of the company is publicly traded, and that portion will be soon diluted further. The government now has a 79 percent stake, which will rise to about 92 percent, in the form of common stock, under the exit plan.
It is not clear whether the Treasury will be able to sell so much stock without making the price fall. Mr. Barofsky said the Treasury’s projection also assumed that all the other steps for the federal government to withdraw from A.I.G. would go smoothly.
He said the Treasury’s statements tended to contribute to a “widespread, but mistaken, belief that TARP is at or near its end.”
As inspector general, Mr. Barofsky has extensive powers of investigation but no enforcement power.
This story originally appeared in the The New York Times
________________________ ______________________
HOPE & CHANGE BITCHES!
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Do I think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were wrong? no. Do I think trying to nation build in the ME is a dumbass idea? Absolutely.
I am split... I think Afghanistan was right and Iraq was wrong.
By wrong I don't necessarily mean "morally", I simply mean at the end of the day, I don't think the US had any valid reason to go into Iraq.
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I am split... I think Afghanistan was right and Iraq was wrong.
By wrong I don't necessarily mean "morally", I simply mean at the end of the day, I don't think the US had any valid reason to go into Iraq.
The Us should have finish Saddam off in '91, since he was left in power it was only a matter of time before the US went back. Fighting a 2 front war, not a good idea in the big picture of things. Nation building is the downfall, they don't want it and all it does it stuff the pockets of the Karzi's of the world while he plays both sides to become as wealthy as possible.
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The Us should have finish Saddam off in '91, since he was left in power it was only a matter of time before the US went back. Fighting a 2 front war, not a good idea in the big picture of things. Nation building is the downfall, they don't want it and all it does it stuff the pockets of the Karzi's of the world while he plays both sides to become as wealthy as possible.
That's true, but you can't go back 12 years later and say "Now I'm gonna get ya'"
That's jsut retarded.
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Bump for Benny
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;)
There are a number things the public “knows” as we head into the election that are just false. If people elect leaders based on false information, the things those leaders do in office will not be what the public expects or needs.
Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:
1) President Obama tripled the deficit.Reality: Bush’s last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama’s first reduced that to $1.29 trillion.
2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the “stimulus” was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.
3) President Obama bailed out the banks.Reality: While many people conflate the “stimulus” with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be “non-reviewable by any court or any agency.”) The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.
4) The stimulus didn’t work.Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.
5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.
6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.
7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is “going broke,” people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.
Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.
Spread this list around, please. Tomorrow is election day!
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I fucking destroyed your entire stupid thread and that is the best you can do?
Pathetic, and typical.