Author Topic: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day  (Read 5925 times)

tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2010, 01:43:28 PM »
Yeah, if you call printing money through the Fed Reserve to artifically prop up GDP, through a devaluation of the dollar, all while we have 10% UE, as coming out of a recession, fine, have fune with it.  



That is pure opinion and not really a status on the economy.

Do you really think the recession is over? I don't see it, just because the government spends a bunch of money and props up GDP, does not a recovery make

I have seen my company finally have a profitable quarter since the crash in 2007, so while it may be hard to see, I do in fact think that if it's not "over", it is at least stable... First quarter in almost 3 years where we had a net gain and not a net loss.

So I do think "something" good is happening.

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2010, 02:01:27 PM »
That is pure opinion and not really a status on the economy.

I have seen my company finally have a profitable quarter since the crash in 2007, so while it may be hard to see, I do in fact think that if it's not "over", it is at least stable... First quarter in almost 3 years where we had a net gain and not a net loss.

So I do think "something" good is happening.

Remains to be seen, but the government can't keep printing money backed by nothing to prop up the economy. What happens when the stimulus money runs out?
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tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2010, 02:02:28 PM »
Remains to be seen, but the government can't keep printing money backed by nothing to prop up the economy. What happens when the stimulus money runs out?

No disagreement there... I think that we've done as much as we can throwing money at it and it's time to let the way of the market take over.

I think the disaster was mostly averted and that the ship will have to right itself.

That's capitalism anyway... Market bearing what it can bear.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2010, 02:02:49 PM »
That is pure opinion and not really a status on the economy.

I have seen my company finally have a profitable quarter since the crash in 2007, so while it may be hard to see, I do in fact think that if it's not "over", it is at least stable... First quarter in almost 3 years where we had a net gain and not a net loss.

So I do think "something" good is happening.


Yeah - record levels on UE assistance, record levels on food stamps,  weekly jobless claims are still at 450k a week, record levels of debt, increasing UE, and the recession over?  Ha ha ha.  

Even Obama's butt budy Krugman is saying we are in collapse.  

Soul Crusher

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2010, 02:03:47 PM »
No disagreement there... I think that we've done as much as we can throwing money at it and it's time to let the way of the market take over.

I think the disaster was mostly averted and that the ship will have to right itself.

That's capitalism anyway... Market bearing what it can bear.

We didnt avert anything - we kicked the can downt eh road and fooled ourselves into thinking we can print money to solve our problems. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2010, 02:06:35 PM »
We didnt avert anything - we kicked the can downt eh road and fooled ourselves into thinking we can print money to solve our problems. 

So what? Let me ask you something?

You do realize that the top 3 are all of the deficit right?

75% of the US budget is in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.

What would you cut? Why? How?

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2010, 02:10:23 PM »
So what? Let me ask you something?

You do realize that the top 3 are all of the deficit right?

75% of the US budget is in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.

What would you cut? Why? How?

We have to cut everything.  Do you remotely care about the value of the dollar? 

Check this out.

www.usdebtclock.org 


tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2010, 02:14:23 PM »
We have to cut everything.  Do you remotely care about the value of the dollar? 

Check this out.

www.usdebtclock.org 



Dude... I saw the debt clock back in like 2003 or something.

I know what our debt is... yes... I value the dollar.

I agree that we have to cut everything... Guess what. The Tea Party doesn't agree... They do not believe you should cut spending... Actually, the refuse to cut it.

The number one item in the US budget and they REFUSE to cut it.

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2010, 02:16:16 PM »
So what? Let me ask you something?

You do realize that the top 3 are all of the deficit right?

75% of the US budget is in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.

What would you cut? Why? How?

Id raise retirement to get social security to 72 years old for anyone under 55.I would bring ALL our troops home from foreign soil and close all military bases over seas unless we are at war.Medicare would have much greater oversight from NON GOVERNMENT firms to guard against waste and fraud.

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2010, 02:20:41 PM »
Dude... I saw the debt clock back in like 2003 or something.

I know what our debt is... yes... I value the dollar.

I agree that we have to cut everything... Guess what. The Tea Party doesn't agree... They do not believe you should cut spending... Actually, the refuse to cut it.

The number one item in the US budget and they REFUSE to cut it.

The "Tea Party" is not a party - its a movement of people with different agenda items. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2010, 02:23:36 PM »
Not for nothing - but no one has refuted any of my points in this thread.  Case closed. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2010, 02:25:03 PM »
The "Tea Party" is not a party - its a movement of people with different agenda items.  

Whatever you want to call them... All I'm saying is that they stand up and talk cut cut cut, but will refuse to cut the number one money spend of the US federal budget.


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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2010, 02:28:17 PM »
Whatever you want to call them... All I'm saying is that they stand up and talk cut cut cut, but will refuse to cut the number one money spend of the US federal budget.



You have to look at it this way, the TEA party believes in the government following the constitution, one of the things the federal government is actually supposed to be doing is providing for defense of the nation. SS and Medicaid, as far as I'm concerned well beyond the powers of the federal government.
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tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2010, 02:30:19 PM »
You have to look at it this way, the TEA party believes in the government following the constitution, one of the things the federal government is actually supposed to be doing is providing for defense of the nation. SS and Medicaid, as far as I'm concerned well beyond the powers of the federal government.

Do you believe defending the nation should be fighting in foreign lands for no apparent reason?

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2010, 02:31:06 PM »
Whatever you want to call them... All I'm saying is that they stand up and talk cut cut cut, but will refuse to cut the number one money spend of the US federal budget.



Well, they should.  We simply can not keep all of the promises we have made to everyone.  There is not any mathmatical formula that exists to pay off the promises we have made to everyone.  

That being said - tens of millions of people have paid in a lifetime of taxes into SS and medicare under the promise, as stupid as it is, that this money would be used responsibily by the govt for when they needed it.  

I can understand why people of that age are reluctant at this point since they have paid ni their entire lives.    

Kazan

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2010, 02:33:17 PM »
Do you believe defending the nation should be fighting in foreign lands for no apparent reason?

Do I think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were wrong? no. Do I think trying to nation build in the ME is a dumbass idea? Absolutely.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2010, 07:44:57 AM »
Looks like the apologists are proven wrong again. 


________________________ ________________________ ______


Treasury Hid A.I.G. Loss, Report Says
Published: Tuesday, 26 Oct 2010 | 8:37 AM
Mary Williams Walsh
www.cnbc.com

________________________ _______________


The United States Treasury concealed $40 billion in likely taxpayer losses on the bailout of the American International Group earlier this month, when it abandoned its usual method for valuing investments, according to a report by the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

 
The United States Treasury concealed $40 billion in likely taxpayer losses according to a report by the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
“In our view, this is a significant failure in their transparency,” said Neil M. Barofsky, the inspector general, in an interview on Monday.


In early October, the Treasury issued a report predicting that the taxpayers would ultimately lose just $5 billion on their investment in A.I.G. [AIG  41.73    0.63  (+1.53%)   ], a remarkable outcome, since the insurance company was extended $182 billion in taxpayer money in the early months of its rescue. The prediction of a modest loss, widely reported as A.I.G., the Federal Reserve and the Treasury rushed to complete an exit plan, contrasted with an earlier prediction by the Treasury that the taxpayers would lose $45 billion.

“The American people have a right for full and complete disclosure about their investment in A.I.G.,” Mr. Barofsky said, “and the U.S. government has an obligation, when they’re describing potential losses, to give complete information.”


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An official of the Treasury disputed Mr. Barofsky’s conclusions, saying the department appropriately used different methods for different purposes. He said the smaller loss was a projection of future events, and the larger one was the result of an audit, which includes only realized gains and losses.

The Treasury will include more information about A.I.G. when it issues its own audited financial statement in November. Because those numbers must pass an auditor’s scrutiny, the loss it reports is likely to grow once again, to more than $5 billion.

Members of Congress who have been critical of the federal bailouts jumped on Monday to commend the special inspector general and challenge the varying numbers.

“If a private company filed information with the government that was just as misleading and disingenuous as what Treasury has done here, you’d better believe there would be calls for an investigation from the S.E.C. and others,” said Representative Darrell Issa, the senior Republican on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. He called the Treasury’s October report on A.I.G. “blatant manipulation.”

Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican on the Finance Committee, said he thought “administration officials are trying so hard to put a positive spin on program losses that they played fast and loose with the numbers.” He said it reminded him of “misleading” claims that General Motors had paid back its rescue loans with interest ahead of schedule.

Mr. Barofsky said he had written to the Treasury secretary, Timothy F. Geithner, in mid-October, after widespread reports in the news media about the possibility that the Treasury could wind down its position in A.I.G. with just a $5 billion loss. He recommended that the Treasury correct the October report, perhaps by adding a footnote saying the methodology for calculating its losses had changed.


The Treasury declined. It sent back a letter saying its methodology for calculating losses had not really changed, although its assumptions had. For instance, it based the values of several future transactions on the current price of A.I.G.’s common stock. The letter, signed by Timothy G. Massad, the acting assistant secretary for financial stability, said this reflected the fact that a crucial component of its exit strategy would be the exchange of preferred for common stock.

Mr. Barofsky said the government failed to account for the volatility of A.I.G.’s common stock. A relatively small portion of the company is publicly traded, and that portion will be soon diluted further. The government now has a 79 percent stake, which will rise to about 92 percent, in the form of common stock, under the exit plan.

It is not clear whether the Treasury will be able to sell so much stock without making the price fall. Mr. Barofsky said the Treasury’s projection also assumed that all the other steps for the federal government to withdraw from A.I.G. would go smoothly.

He said the Treasury’s statements tended to contribute to a “widespread, but mistaken, belief that TARP is at or near its end.”

As inspector general, Mr. Barofsky has extensive powers of investigation but no enforcement power.

This story originally appeared in the The New York Times


________________________ ______________________


HOPE & CHANGE BITCHES!

tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2010, 10:18:51 AM »
Do I think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were wrong? no. Do I think trying to nation build in the ME is a dumbass idea? Absolutely.

I am split... I think Afghanistan was right and Iraq was wrong.

By wrong I don't necessarily mean "morally", I simply mean at the end of the day, I don't think the US had any valid reason to go into Iraq.

Kazan

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2010, 10:30:43 AM »
I am split... I think Afghanistan was right and Iraq was wrong.

By wrong I don't necessarily mean "morally", I simply mean at the end of the day, I don't think the US had any valid reason to go into Iraq.
The Us should have finish Saddam off in '91, since he was left in power it was only a matter of time before the US went back. Fighting a 2 front war, not a good idea in the big picture of things. Nation building is the downfall, they don't want it and all it does it stuff the pockets of the Karzi's of the world while he plays both sides to become as wealthy as possible.
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tu_holmes

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2010, 10:35:12 AM »
The Us should have finish Saddam off in '91, since he was left in power it was only a matter of time before the US went back. Fighting a 2 front war, not a good idea in the big picture of things. Nation building is the downfall, they don't want it and all it does it stuff the pockets of the Karzi's of the world while he plays both sides to become as wealthy as possible.

That's true, but you can't go back 12 years later and say "Now I'm gonna get ya'"

That's jsut retarded.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2010, 01:28:01 PM »
Bump for Benny 

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2010, 10:24:57 AM »
 ;)

There are a number things the public “knows” as we head into the election that are just false. If people elect leaders based on false information, the things those leaders do in office will not be what the public expects or needs.

    Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there:

    1) President Obama tripled the deficit.Reality: Bush’s last budget had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama’s first reduced that to $1.29 trillion.

    2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy.Reality: Obama cut taxes. 40% of the “stimulus” was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt, which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been.

    3) President Obama bailed out the banks.Reality: While many people conflate the “stimulus” with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts to be “non-reviewable by any court or any agency.”) The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama.

    4) The stimulus didn’t work.Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs.

    5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts.Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts.

    6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion.Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion.

    7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, is “going broke,” people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc.Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to.

   Eight) Government spending takes money out of the economy.Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on “welfare” and “foreign aid” when that is only a small part of the government’s budget.

Spread this list around, please. Tomorrow is election day!
!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Eight False Things The Public "Knows" Prior To Election Day
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2010, 10:26:08 AM »
I fucking destroyed your entire stupid thread and that is the best you can do? 

Pathetic, and typical.