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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Deicide on November 02, 2010, 05:12:49 AM
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Now, this will be some unconventional stuff you are hearing. My basic premise is that we raise our children in a fantasy world composed of a bubble and that bubble bursts upon achieving adulthood, not always but often. When I talk about fantasy I am not referring to religious delusion, I am referring to the kind that is universally accepted by just about everyone. You know the sort; 'you can do anything if you try hard enough', as the base example. We shower our kids with delusion from the moment they are born, creating a world for them that has virtually nothing to do with the adult world. Growing up in large part consists of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not as 'rosy' as many parents had told and created for their children. Indeed, for the most part it consists of disillusionment as one comes to terms with the fact that the world is often brutish, nasty, unfair and just overall unpleasant. We think to shield our children from this reality by mollycoddling them within a fantasy world but the truth is most children suffer a rather vicious shock when entering young adulthood as all the fantasies they were told dissolve and they are not left with the cognitive tools to deal with reality as it is. What I am proposing is not that children should not be shown love and affection but that in showing those things, it be coupled with a healthy dose of reality so for example the next time little Timmy says he wants to become an astronaut, you tell him all the requirements that go into that (aeronautical engineering, years of study, etc.); make children aware that the outside world bears no resemblance whatsoever to the illusory world you have created for them and that when exiting the parental bubble they will be confronted with that world on a daily basis.
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Now, this will be some unconventional stuff you are hearing. My basic premise is that we raise our children in a fantasy world composed of a bubble and that bubble bursts upon achieving adulthood, not always but often.
When I talk about fantasy I am not referring to religious delusion, I am referring to the kind that is universally accepted by just about everyone. You know the sort; 'you can do anything if you try hard enough', as the base example. We shower our kids with delusion from the moment they are born, creating a world for them that has virtually nothing to do with the adult world.
Growing up in large part consists of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not as 'rosy' as many parents had told and created for their children. Indeed, for the most part it consists of disillusionment as one comes to terms with the fact that the world is often brutish, nasty, unfair and just overall unpleasant.
We think to shield our children from this reality by mollycoddling them within a fantasy world but the truth is most children suffer a rather vicious shock when entering young adulthood as all the fantasies they were told dissolve and they are not left with the cognitive tools to deal with reality as it is.
What I am proposing is not that children should not be shown love and affection but that in showing those things, it be coupled with a healthy dose of reality so for example the next time little Timmy says he wants to become an astronaut, you tell him all the requirements that go into that (aeronautical engineering, years of study, etc.); make children aware that the outside world bears no resemblance whatsoever to the illusory world you have created for them and that when exiting the parental bubble they will be confronted with that world on a daily basis
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Eh, pratter du Svenska? ???
Now, this will be some unconventional stuff you are hearing. My basic premise is that we raise our children in a fantasy world composed of a bubble and that bubble bursts upon achieving adulthood, not always but often.
When I talk about fantasy I am not referring to religious delusion, I am referring to the kind that is universally accepted by just about everyone. You know the sort; 'you can do anything if you try hard enough', as the base example. We shower our kids with delusion from the moment they are born, creating a world for them that has virtually nothing to do with the adult world.
Growing up in large part consists of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not as 'rosy' as many parents had told and created for their children. Indeed, for the most part it consists of disillusionment as one comes to terms with the fact that the world is often brutish, nasty, unfair and just overall unpleasant.
We think to shield our children from this reality by mollycoddling them within a fantasy world but the truth is most children suffer a rather vicious shock when entering young adulthood as all the fantasies they were told dissolve and they are not left with the cognitive tools to deal with reality as it is.
What I am proposing is not that children should not be shown love and affection but that in showing those things, it be coupled with a healthy dose of reality so for example the next time little Timmy says he wants to become an astronaut, you tell him all the requirements that go into that (aeronautical engineering, years of study, etc.); make children aware that the outside world bears no resemblance whatsoever to the illusory world you have created for them and that when exiting the parental bubble they will be confronted with that world on a daily basis
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Eh, pratter du Svenska? ???
pratar*
;)
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pratar*
;)
Eh, snakker du Norsk? ???
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Do either of you have kids ???
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Do either of you have kids ???
Don't need to have children to come to this conclusion.
Childhood=delusion and illusion>Adulthood=freeing oneself from those delusions and illusions
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you mean raising children to wage wars is wrong? you just now got that?
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you mean raising children to wage wars is wrong? you just now got that?
Uh, that too is wrong but that is not what I wrote.
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Don't need to have children to come to this conclusion.
Childhood=delusion and illusion>Adulthood=freeing oneself from those delusions and illusions
So you're just gonna lump all parenting together ???
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So you're just gonna lump all parenting together ???
No, not all of them but it is commonly accepted as a way to raise children that feeding them fairy tales about themselves and the world is a healthy thing.
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No, not all of them but it is commonly accepted as a way to raise children that feeding them fairy tales about themselves and the world is a healthy thing.
Hell I know nothing about kids.don't even like the little bastards but I can imagine as a parent you would want to protect them from the "evils' in the world.so I can see how a parent would act that way.
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Uh, that too is wrong but that is not what I wrote.
I'm just saying till that is dealt with we're going to have a pretty fucked up planet regardless.
The rest of parenting mistakes are bad enough though. Many realizes they are just children themselves.
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Hell I know nothing about kids.don't even like the little bastards but I can imagine as a parent you would want to protect them from the "evils' in the world.so I can see how a parent would act that way.
Sure but there are better ways.
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Deicide should go into motivational speaking...... :-\
And if you ever have kids, I highly doubt you will be so forthright....."Yeah, Johnny you are not very attractive and have limited mental capabilities. You should quit sports because you suck.....and I'm really not proud of you, so much as, I'm obligated to say I am.... Now go out into the real world and kick some ass!"
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Sure but there are better ways.
Not saying there arn't.but you and I don't have a baby in our hands that relies on us.
.....might be a different story for you if you did is what I'm trying to say.
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Deicide should go into motivational speaking...... :-\
And if you ever have kids, I highly doubt you will be so forthright....."Yeah, Johnny you are not very attractive and have limited mental capabilities. You should quit sports because you suck.....and I'm really not proud of you, so much as, I'm obligated to say I am.... Now go out into the real world and kick some ass!"
What's the alternative? and you are a bit too harsh there, it shouldn't be put that way.
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What's the alternative? and you are a bit too harsh there, it shouldn't be put that way.
i think the key thing is just to encourage kids....not unrealistically, but lets say that they show an ability to excel at something....give them every opportunity to follow up on that. If they just really like doing something, but aren't all that great at it, who cares? Let them be kids. And if they don't like something and they suck at it, encourage them to go into a different direction.
In many ways kids grow up waaaaaay too quickly in the modern world....too much exposure to things they aren't mentally ready to handle....but in other ways they are sooooo far behind where our parents and grandparents were....for example responsibility.
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Now, this will be some unconventional stuff you are hearing. My basic premise is that we raise our children in a fantasy world composed of a bubble and that bubble bursts upon achieving adulthood, not always but often. When I talk about fantasy I am not referring to religious delusion, I am referring to the kind that is universally accepted by just about everyone. You know the sort; 'you can do anything if you try hard enough', as the base example. We shower our kids with delusion from the moment they are born, creating a world for them that has virtually nothing to do with the adult world. Growing up in large part consists of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not as 'rosy' as many parents had told and created for their children. Indeed, for the most part it consists of disillusionment as one comes to terms with the fact that the world is often brutish, nasty, unfair and just overall unpleasant. We think to shield our children from this reality by mollycoddling them within a fantasy world but the truth is most children suffer a rather vicious shock when entering young adulthood as all the fantasies they were told dissolve and they are not left with the cognitive tools to deal with reality as it is. What I am proposing is not that children should not be shown love and affection but that in showing those things, it be coupled with a healthy dose of reality so for example the next time little Timmy says he wants to become an astronaut, you tell him all the requirements that go into that (aeronautical engineering, years of study, etc.); make children aware that the outside world bears no resemblance whatsoever to the illusory world you have created for them and that when exiting the parental bubble they will be confronted with that world on a daily basis.
One thing for sure: Your parents have failed miserably.
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One thing for sure: Your parents have failed miserably.
Und wie kommst du darauf?
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Und wie kommst du darauf?
Cause you're a pseudo intellectual, miserable, bitter failure with low self-esteem, who might have a certain level of intelligence but isn't able to use it and so remains dysfunctional in most aspects of life.
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Cause you're a pseudo intellectual, miserable, bitter failure with low self-esteem, who might have a certain level of intelligence but isn't able to use it and so remains dysfunctional in most aspects of life.
Am I right? If not, I apologize.
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Cause you're a pseudo intellectual, miserable, bitter failure with low self-esteem, who might have a certain level of intelligence but isn't able to use it and so remains dysfunctional in most aspects of life.
Ich bin ueberhaupt nicht elend. Frueher vielleicht schon, aber man kann sich aendern. Waehrend meiner 20er hat das zum Teil wohl zugetroffen, jetzt aber nicht mehr. Ich bin heutzutage mehr oder weniger zufrieden.
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Hell I know nothing about kids.don't even like the little bastards but I can imagine as a parent you would want to protect them from the "evils' in the world.so I can see how a parent would act that way.
spot on, let the kids have fantasies and let them be kids. the grow accustom slowly about how the world works so they wont get a chock when they grow up. and if they suck at a sport let them suck, as long they have fun while doing it. if your kid want to be a astronaut, let them dream about it cause in a couple of weeks they have changes there minds and want to be firemen. My 2 year old princess lives in a protected fantasyworld as you call it and i wouldn't want it any way. let kids be kids and have dreams even if they are unrealistic
did anyone here got a chock when they grew up and learned that the world is a evil place? i dont think many did
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spot on, let the kids have fantasies and let them be kids. the grow accustom slowly about how the world works so they wont get a chock when they grow up. and if they suck at a sport let them suck, as long they have fun while doing it. if your kid want to be a astronaut, let them dream about it cause in a couple of weeks they have changes there minds and want to be firemen. My 2 year old princess lives in a protected fantasyworld as you call it and i wouldn't want it any way. let kids be kids and have dreams even if they are unrealistic
did anyone here got a chock when they grew up and learned that the world is a evil place? i dont think many did
Tons of people did and that is the point. As a child you never learn that people manipulate you, lie to you, exploit you, etc. It is very hard to adjust to this if you aren't aware of this stuff.
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Tons of people did and that is the point. As a child you never learn that people manipulate you, lie to you, exploit you, etc. It is very hard to adjust to this if you aren't aware of this stuff.
at what age do you think would be appropriate to start to tell them how it is?
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at what age do you think would be appropriate to start to tell them how it is?
It would depend; you could start when they have their first interpersonal disappointment.
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It would depend; you could start when they have their first interpersonal disappointment.
So the first time the child cry's because they want more to eat but has already has been fed you should tell them life sucks so just get used to it ???
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i think the key thing is just to encourage kids....not unrealistically, but lets say that they show an ability to excel at something....give them every opportunity to follow up on that. If they just really like doing something, but aren't all that great at it, who cares? Let them be kids. And if they don't like something and they suck at it, encourage them to go into a different direction.
In many ways kids grow up waaaaaay too quickly in the modern world....too much exposure to things they aren't mentally ready to handle....but in other ways they are sooooo far behind where our parents and grandparents were....for example responsibility.
So true, good post.
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So the first time the child cry's because they want more to eat but has already has been fed you should tell them life sucks so just get used to it ???
Interpersonal; didn't you read?
For example when the first major taunting at school takes place.
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In many ways kids grow up waaaaaay too quickly in the modern world....too much exposure to things they aren't mentally ready to handle....but in other ways they are sooooo far behind where our parents and grandparents were....for example responsibility.
Society and the media are geared for that ... kids watch Jersey Shore nowadays and what kind of lessons do they get from that ?
They go to school dressed in designer clothes to "fit in" not to learn .. they use google instead of a dictionary or library ... the effort that is required of them to do anything is near nil
They are allowed to spend countless hours sedentary .. not even raking leaves in the fresh air .. or learning about anything that comes close to responsibilty
They go to college to get drunk and laid
I think Amish and Mennonite children are raised with better appreciation and values for life and work
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So true, good post.
Nope,if two year old Tommy wants to be President ,an astronaut ,or a scientist we should tell him that the odds of him making it are not good and that he should give up the dream ::)
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If you think children are suddenly exposed to the real world when they turn 18 you are wrong. Children will learn fast enough the realities of the real world without us beating them over the head with it when they are growing up. Hell, childhood lasts only about 13 yrs of your entire life, why not give them that..
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But good post subject.. beats the hell out of most of them these days
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It would depend; you could start when they have their first interpersonal disappointment.
You fail to realize the importants of putting your kids in an ideal world. It creates expectations. If you teach kids that they will never be an astronant, and should instead be a chemist, they will become a janitor,
Everyone over inflates there vision of the future it's healthy, if you don't belive that your future won't be much better than the present you settle with the now and become apathetic and unmotivated(see black people).
Everyone falls short of their dreams regardless of what they are, if you dream to be a janitor you goto prison etc.
It's just how were wired from evolution.
Also if kids are not tricked into believing that there's a right and wrong in this world, they become valuesless and aren't able to bring order to their lives.
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Interpersonal; didn't you read?
For example when the first major taunting at school takes place.
So just tell the kid to go into a shell and give up because the world sucks ???
So if the kid gets taunted in school because he tells some other kids he wants to grow up to be the President the kid should just give up his dream/fantasy ???
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Kids grow up fast enough these days. Let them be kids for as long as you possibly can. It's a great time, and no parent wants to shorten the experience. Teach them the "real world" when the appropriate situation requires it.
There's no need for Decicide's "astronaut speech". The real world will unveil itself to them soon enough, and if they fail at it, it won't because their parents showered them with a positive upbringing.
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Kids grow up fast enough these days. Let them be kids for as long as you possibly can. It's a great time, and no parent wants to shorten the experience. Teach them the "real world" when the appropriate situation requires it.
There's no need for Decicide's "astronaut speech". The real world will unveil itself to them soon enough, and if they fail at it, it won't because their parents showered them with a positive upbringing.
Haha,how many astronauts do you think there would be if they had parents that didn't let them and encourage their dreams ;)
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Now, this will be some unconventional stuff you are hearing. My basic premise is that we raise our children in a fantasy world composed of a bubble and that bubble bursts upon achieving adulthood, not always but often. When I talk about fantasy I am not referring to religious delusion, I am referring to the kind that is universally accepted by just about everyone. You know the sort; 'you can do anything if you try hard enough', as the base example. We shower our kids with delusion from the moment they are born, creating a world for them that has virtually nothing to do with the adult world. Growing up in large part consists of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not as 'rosy' as many parents had told and created for their children. Indeed, for the most part it consists of disillusionment as one comes to terms with the fact that the world is often brutish, nasty, unfair and just overall unpleasant. We think to shield our children from this reality by mollycoddling them within a fantasy world but the truth is most children suffer a rather vicious shock when entering young adulthood as all the fantasies they were told dissolve and they are not left with the cognitive tools to deal with reality as it is. What I am proposing is not that children should not be shown love and affection but that in showing those things, it be coupled with a healthy dose of reality so for example the next time little Timmy says he wants to become an astronaut, you tell him all the requirements that go into that (aeronautical engineering, years of study, etc.); make children aware that the outside world bears no resemblance whatsoever to the illusory world you have created for them and that when exiting the parental bubble they will be confronted with that world on a daily basis.
So you want everyone to be miserable and manic-depressive like yourself? No thanks.
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So you want everyone to be miserable and manic-depressive like yourself? No thanks.
My only complaint about my childhood was bullying. Not that I was a pussy just the opposite I was conditioned to be overly hostile. I was taught strong values by my parents and learned that most people don't operate by my families rules at around 12. I learned I couldn't trust others as their values don't hold up and are just generally bad people, I'm only getting over this shit in the last year.
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My only complaint about my childhood was bullying. Not that I was a pussy just the opposite I was conditioned to be overly hostile. I was taught strong values by my parents and learned that most people don't operate by my families rules at around 12. I learned I couldn't trust others as their values don't hold up and are just generally bad people, I'm only getting over this shit in the last year.
I hope you got the shit kicked out of you. Seems likely considering the brain damage you exhibit.
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I hope you got the shit kicked out of you. Seems likely considering the brain damage you exhibit.
Lol I bigger than you so shut up okay :)
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Now, this will be some unconventional stuff you are hearing. My basic premise is that we raise our children in a fantasy world composed of a bubble and that bubble bursts upon achieving adulthood, not always but often. When I talk about fantasy I am not referring to religious delusion, I am referring to the kind that is universally accepted by just about everyone. You know the sort; 'you can do anything if you try hard enough', as the base example. We shower our kids with delusion from the moment they are born, creating a world for them that has virtually nothing to do with the adult world. Growing up in large part consists of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not as 'rosy' as many parents had told and created for their children. Indeed, for the most part it consists of disillusionment as one comes to terms with the fact that the world is often brutish, nasty, unfair and just overall unpleasant. We think to shield our children from this reality by mollycoddling them within a fantasy world but the truth is most children suffer a rather vicious shock when entering young adulthood as all the fantasies they were told dissolve and they are not left with the cognitive tools to deal with reality as it is. What I am proposing is not that children should not be shown love and affection but that in showing those things, it be coupled with a healthy dose of reality so for example the next time little Timmy says he wants to become an astronaut, you tell him all the requirements that go into that (aeronautical engineering, years of study, etc.); make children aware that the outside world bears no resemblance whatsoever to the illusory world you have created for them and that when exiting the parental bubble they will be confronted with that world on a daily basis.
It goes both ways. Many parents tell their children the opposite, which may or may not be true also.
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So you want everyone to be miserable and manic-depressive like yourself? No thanks.
No. I am not longer miserable and depressive but it took me years to get out of that. I aim here at the opposite goal; by preparing children for the realities of life, they can save countless years.
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No. I am not longer miserable and depressive but it took me years to get out of that. I aim here at the opposite goal; by preparing children for the realities of life, they can save countless years.
Children can be prepared for the realities of life without the methods you propose. You prepare them as opportunity presents itself, or requires it. Let them shoot for the moon as long as possible.
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No. I am not longer miserable and depressive but it took me years to get out of that. I aim here at the opposite goal; by preparing children for the realities of life, they can save countless years.
Your making it simpler than it is. This shit is complicated what works for one person rarely works for the next, my bullying shit is a clear example. What you teach a kid is like the programming for a xbox/ps3/wii/pc/mac/linux etc what works for one isn't made for another hardware. It's biology not reason.
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Your making it simpler than it is. This shit is complicated what works for one person rarely works for the next, my bullying shit is a clear example. What you teach a kid is like the programming for a xbox/ps3/wii/pc/mac/linux etc what works for one isn't made for another hardware. It's biology not reason.
Good point. Deicide's just projecting himself here, and applying it to everyone.