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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: Nails on November 04, 2010, 04:14:50 PM
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http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/amplifier/148/minnesota-mom-hit-with-15-million-fine-for-downloading-24-songs/ (http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/amplifier/148/minnesota-mom-hit-with-15-million-fine-for-downloading-24-songs/)
(http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/amplifier/amplifier-808194238-1288892230.jpg?ymHNICEDqOK64APj)
What's the value of a song? Jammie Thomas-Rasset has spent the last few years in court debating that question. The Minnesota mother of four is being penalized for illegally downloading and sharing 24 songs on the peer-to-peer file-sharing network Kazaa in 2006, but how much she owes the record labels has been in question. The jury in her third trial has just ruled that Thomas-Rasset should pay Capitol Records $1.5 million, CNET reports, which breaks down to $62,500 per song. It's a heavy penalty considering the 24 tunes would only cost approximately $24 on iTunes, which was Thomas-Rasset' argument, too.
Thanks to Thomas-Rasset's colorful case, she has become the public face of the record industry's battle with illegal downloaders. In her first trial, in 2007, the jury demanded she pay $222,000 for violating the copyright on more than 1,700 songs by Green Day, Aerosmith and Richard Marx, to name a few. (Marx said he was "ashamed" to be associated with the "farcical" prosecution of an illegal downloader.) Thomas-Rasset maintained she wasn't the computer user who did the file sharing, and her legal team cited an error in jury instruction to secure a second trial in 2009 that ended with a much harsher result: an astronomical fine of $1.92 million. However, earlier this year a U.S. District Court judge found the $1.92 million penalty against Thomas-Rasset to be "monstrous and shocking" and "gross injustice" before lowering it to $54,000, or $2,250 a song. Thomas-Rasset and her legal team decided to appeal that decision, too.
The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), the organization that represents the four major record labels, was pleased by the most recent decision, even if it has no intention to collect the $1.5 million from Thomas-Rasset. "Now with three jury decisions behind us along with a clear affirmation of Ms. Thomas-Rasset's willful liability, it is our hope that she finally accepts responsibility for her actions," the RIAA said in a statement. Earlier this year, the RIAA offered Thomas-Rasset the opportunity to end the legal battle for $25,000 and an admission of guilt; Thomas-Rasset declined.
Burying a Midwestern mom in insurmountable debt isn't the best publicity move, so rather than argue the labels are entitled to the cash, the RIAA has sought to make this trial into a cautionary tale for anyone considering illegally downloading music -- a reminder that there are penalties. But as the constantly declining weekly Nielsen SoundScan sales figures demonstrate, nothing seems to have deterred music fans from stealing rather than purchasing songs and albums. And in a digital world now dominated by Bit Torrent and Rapidshare, a trial over a music-sharing dinosaur like Kazaa seems nothing but antiquated. (Last month, after a decade of illegal file sharing, peer-to-peer service LimeWire was shut down by the government, much to the surprise of the millions who thought LimeWire had faded years ago into the Internet ether.)
Still, Thomas-Rasset and her legal team are already making plans to appeal, setting the stage for a fourth trial. "The fight continues," promised Thomas-Rasset's lawyer Kiwi Camara. Even if Thomas-Rasset were to win the next trial, the RIAA would likely appeal that decision to ensure that copyright infringement without penalization won't happen. This story has the potential to drag on well into the next decade -- when for $1.5 million, all of Thomas-Rasset's four kids could finish law school and take up the fight on her behalf.
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disgraceful going after an individual like this.
they will have blood on their hands and as a result itll open up massive holes for others to abuse.
i can only see it backfiring.
only in the US.
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Good luck getting the money.
Makes you wan to smack Capital Records for "proving a point".
They should be lucky anyone buys most music today. Start producing some quality musicians/songwriting...there's a free tip.
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extremely excessive fine though, no way about it. why not just make her pay what they would have cost in the first place? (a dollar a song or so?). it also said they may have no intention of actually collecting the fien, so any point they may be attempting to make seems , well, pointless.
funny though how they try to portray her as just some innocent 'midwestern mom' who just wanted a few songs. lol 1700 illegal downloads.
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i dont understand what she did that called her to the attention of the music industry., hundreds of thousands, maybe more, were downloadin songs from P2P sites
how did they single her out?
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Good luck getting the money.
Makes you wan to smack Capital Records for "proving a point".
They should be lucky anyone buys most music today. Start producing some quality musicians/songwriting...there's a free tip.
The record companies and Congress are trying to make radio stations and or listeners pay to play songs...trying to end Free Radio...meaning that radio station you listen to has to pay the record companies to play their songs...
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if she would had only downloaded the songs, there wouldnt have a problem.
but she did put the song to a fileshare server ....that was the crime
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A life destroyed, and "legally".
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i dont understand what she did that called her to the attention of the music industry., hundreds of thousands, maybe more, were downloadin songs from P2P sites
how did they single her out?
I'd say they pick random people to drive home the idea that everyone is at risk of being held accountable for their piracy.
France just passed a pretty strict law regarding internet piracy and a lot of other countries have legislation making its way towards legalization.
This doesn't really bother me. We all know we're stealing a product when we pirate it off a torrent or site.
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I'd say they pick random people to drive home the idea that everyone is at risk of being held accountable for their piracy.
France just passed a pretty strict law regarding internet piracy and a lot of other countries have legislation making its way towards legalization.
This doesn't really bother me. We all know we're stealing a product when we pirate it off a torrent or site.
Whatever nut job fuck the hell off.
This is straight up legal facism. We freak out when some guy gets locked away in Iran for advocating for a revolution, we bury a mother in debt for listening to green day. LOl
You just proved your a fucking austistic retard. Nobody thinks this shit's a crime, no more than using the word "Ipod(wihtout paying)" is a crime. Fuck man I can'teven belive your saying this stupid shit.
Music shouldn't be copyrightable in 2010 it's that simple you might get my support with movies but music fuck no. It dosen't even make logical sense.
If there was a dividing line between free music, and label music, and it couldn't be blurred with demo songs etc, free music would dominate pop culture in decade.
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Whatever nut job fuck the hell off.
This is straight up legal facism. We freak out when some guy gets locked away in Iran for advocating for a revolution, we bury a mother in debt for listening to green day. LOl
You just proved your a fucking austistic retard. Nobody thinks this shit's a crime, no more than using the word "Ipod(wihtout paying)" is a crime. Fuck man I can'teven belive your saying this stupid shit.
Music shouldn't be copyrightable in 2010 it's that simple you might get my support with movies but music fuck no. It dosen't even make logical sense.
If there was a dividing line between free music, and label music, and it couldn't be blurred with demo songs etc, free music would dominate pop culture in decade.
not surprised a guy who won't pay his bills doesn't think it's stealing..... ;D
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Whatever nut job fuck the hell off.
This is straight up legal facism. We freak out when some guy gets locked away in Iran for advocating for a revolution, we bury a mother in debt for listening to green day. LOl
You just proved your a fucking austistic retard. Nobody thinks this shit's a crime, no more than using the word "Ipod(wihtout paying)" is a crime. Fuck man I can'teven belive your saying this stupid shit.
Music shouldn't be copyrightable in 2010 it's that simple you might get my support with movies but music fuck no. It dosen't even make logical sense.
If there was a dividing line between free music, and label music, and it couldn't be blurred with demo songs etc, free music would dominate pop culture in decade.
Dude does your university offer some sort of Logic class/philosophy course? Perhaps something along those lines will be beneficial.
what's austistic:-\
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Whatever nut job fuck the hell off.
This is straight up legal facism. We freak out when some guy gets locked away in Iran for advocating for a revolution, we bury a mother in debt for listening to green day. LOl
You just proved your a fucking austistic retard. Nobody thinks this shit's a crime, no more than using the word "Ipod(wihtout paying)" is a crime. Fuck man I can'teven belive your saying this stupid shit.
Music shouldn't be copyrightable in 2010 it's that simple you might get my support with movies but music fuck no. It dosen't even make logical sense.
If there was a dividing line between free music, and label music, and it couldn't be blurred with demo songs etc, free music would dominate pop culture in decade.
So, are saying that a artist shouldn't be able to have their music copywritten, and a artist shouldn't be compensated for making music? So, basically a artist is making music for free, but shouldn't get paid? Is that what you advocate?
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So, are saying that a artist should be able to have their music copywritten, and a artist shouldn't be compensated for making music? So, basically a artist is making music for free, but shouldn't get paid? Is that what you advocate?
Seems to be. Perhaps stores shouldn't charge for their wares, we should just pick out what we want and walk off with it.....or restaurants, etc...
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Seems to be. Perhaps stores shouldn't charge for their wares, we should just pick out what we want and walk off with it.....or restaurants, etc...
Perhaps Lundren would rather get fingered in the Arse, as opposed to paying for muscle to load his pink 2nd generation ipod.
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Whatever nut job fuck the hell off.
This is straight up legal facism. We freak out when some guy gets locked away in Iran for advocating for a revolution, we bury a mother in debt for listening to green day. LOl
You just proved your a fucking austistic retard. Nobody thinks this shit's a crime, no more than using the word "Ipod(wihtout paying)" is a crime. Fuck man I can'teven belive your saying this stupid shit.
Music shouldn't be copyrightable in 2010 it's that simple you might get my support with movies but music fuck no. It dosen't even make logical sense.
If there was a dividing line between free music, and label music, and it couldn't be blurred with demo songs etc, free music would dominate pop culture in decade.
Nice meltdown. Given the fact that you think you shouldn't have to pay any loans you take out, I can't say it's surprising that you have no qualms when it comes to other forms of stealing
That said, with your dyslexia (code for stupidity), you don't have to worry about producing any product that will be liable to getting stolen.
Stick to shirking loans and leeching benefits, scumbag.
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Seems to be. Perhaps stores shouldn't charge for their wares, we should just pick out what we want and walk off with it.....or restaurants, etc...
Exactly, imagine a woman at Victoria's Secret..."oh, this looks nice..." and she takes 10 of them, then goes down to Wicked Temptations...and takes about 5 see thru bras...
Then goes to Kohl's and gets 5 dresses, "whew, shopping is quite hard!"
Lungredisgod needs to realize, nothing in life is free, not even pussy.
And for artists not be compensated for their work...he needs to imagine himself as a artist, how are you gonna eat, pay your bills, pay for instruments, etc if you are not paid?
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Exactly, imagine a woman at Victoria's Secret..."oh, this looks nice..." and she takes 10 of them, then goes down to Wicked Temptations...and takes about 5 see thru bras...
Then goes to Kohl's and gets 5 dresses, "whew, shopping is quite hard!"
Lungredisgod needs to realize, nothing in life is free, not even pussy.
And for artists not be compensated for their work...he needs to imagine himself as a artist, how are you gonna eat, pay your bills, pay for instruments, etc if you are not paid?
He's just young and stupid.....maybe he will grow out of it.....
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He's just young and stupid.....maybe he will grow out of it.....
I seriously doubt it.
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I seriously doubt it.
What country is he from Iceland?
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Lungredisgod needs to realize, nothing in life is free, not even pussy.
And for artists not be compensated for their work...he needs to imagine himself as a artist, how are you gonna eat, pay your bills, pay for instruments, etc if you are not paid?
But this is a bullshit arguement, the artist make fuck off all. Except for the very few. You guys don't understand how the industry works. They have a monopoly and they produce sub par music.
The bulk of there costs go into promotion, which is pointless, as it's more about hyping something than actaully spread good music, the other half is making albums are more expensive than there worth(lady gag) whatever.
Free music would be much better off in a band that made it's income on touring, instead of making fuck all with a label. Again 99 percent of bands spend most of their record sales spent on promotion and other acts that can't hold their own weight.
I love the whole notion that you somehow no more about the music industry than me I know alot of people in the local industry.
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What country is he from Iceland?
can't be....most of the Icelanders I met were very bright and informed..... ;D
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Seems to be. Perhaps stores shouldn't charge for their wares, we should just pick out what we want and walk off with it.....or restaurants, etc...
not exactly. a song isn't tangible. If you 'illegally' download a song. The artist doesn't lose anything.
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What country is he from Iceland?
He claims Newfoundland but I thought ASJ_Chaotic lived near Avesher in western Canada.
But this is a bullshit arguement, the artist make fuck off all. Except for the very few. You guys don't understand how the industry works. They have a monopoly and they produce sub par music.
The bulk of there costs go into promotion, which is pointless, as it's more about hyping something than actaully spread good music, the other half is making albums are more expensive than there worth(lady gag) whatever.
Free music would be much better off in a band that made it's income on touring, instead of making fuck all with a label. Again 99 percent of bands spend most of their record sales spent on promotion and other acts that can't hold their own weight.
I love the whole notion that you somehow no more about the music industry than me I know alot of people in the local industry.
Hahahahaha, so now you're a music expert? I've seen your "expert" opinion on other subjects. You are a retard.
Time for Ron to end this newest AXA gimmick.
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not exactly. a song isn't tangible. If you 'illegally' download a song. The artist doesn't lose anything.
Not following....if you paid to download the song, the artist would receive compensation, right? So if you download illegally, without paying, the artist would be out the money.....or am I missing something?
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Not following....if you paid to download the song, the artist would receive compensation, right? So if you download illegally, without paying, the artist would be out the money.....or am I missing something?
His argument is most people wouldn't have bothered to buy the music in the first place.
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His argument is most people wouldn't have bothered to buy the music in the first place.
Hmmmm, not sure if I agree with that premise....if someone knew the only way to get a certain song was to buy it, I think they would....it's just because its available to steal for free that they wouldn't....
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Not following....if you paid to download the song, the artist would receive compensation, right? So if you download illegally, without paying, the artist would be out the money.....or am I missing something?
Right. The artist can gain from you, but cant lose.
Does Justin Bieber know that I just downloaded like all of his songs? no
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Hahahahaha, so now you're a music expert? I've seen your "expert" opinion on other subjects. You are a retard.
Time for Ron to end this newest AXA gimmick.
No expert but I'd think it's more than likely I no more people first hand that make a full time living off music than you do,
The only millionaire I know does it through doing sound for bands concerts etc. It's where the money is to be made atleast if your not the 1 in million like RHCP. But labels make it near impossible for a band to survive on the road. Because they promote nothing but studio bullshit that sounds like garbage live.
The truth is if we had to choose between free and payed music, the labels would fall to shit overnight, as pirated music is their number on source of promotion. People don't watch vids on mtv anymore they have a friend that steals it first than they decide to buy it at a later date.
The labels won't own up to the truth, that most people won't pay for music, and freeshare music sites would crop up like mad if people were forced to pay for shit.
It's total hypocricy they sue people who make them their money.
One of the best bands I know would glady give away their music for free if it gave them more exposure, instead of it all going to a narrow 50 artists signed up to the labels.
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But this is a bullshit arguement, the artist make fuck off all. Except for the very few. You guys don't understand how the industry works. They have a monopoly and they produce sub par music.
The bulk of there costs go into promotion, which is pointless, as it's more about hyping something than actaully spread good music, the other half is making albums are more expensive than there worth(lady gag) whatever.
Free music would be much better off in a band that made it's income on touring, instead of making fuck all with a label. Again 99 percent of bands spend most of their record sales spent on promotion and other acts that can't hold their own weight.
I love the whole notion that you somehow no more about the music industry than me I know alot of people in the
local industry.
dude, it's the record companies that make the money!!! The artists make very little, even Michael Jackson did a interview on it, he had said the reason why James Brown toured so much, and many artists as well, is because they see very little of the money the record companies make. That is why a certain Congressman is in cahoots with the record companies and trying to pass laws to charge radio stations for playing music
many artists have spoken out on them not seeing that much money from the record companies, among them Tribe Called Quest. And I used to work with a Promoter for Janet Jackson, and he talked about the same issues.
Furthermore, you didn't answer the question, you skirted by it? Do you think that a artist's music shouldn't be copywritten or that they shouldn't be compensated for making music?
If so, if you get a job, should you be paid for your work?
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No expert but I'd think it's more than likely I no more people first hand that make a full time living off music than you do,
The only millionaire I know does it through doing sound for bands concerts etc. It's where the money is to be made atleast if your not the 1 in million like RHCP. But labels make it near impossible for a band to survive on the road. Because they promote nothing but studio bullshit that sounds like garbage live.
The truth is if we had to choose between free and payed music, the labels would fall to shit overnight, as pirated music is their number on source of promotion. People don't watch vids on mtv anymore they have a friend that steals it first than they decide to buy it at a later date.
The labels won't own up to the truth, that most people won't pay for music, and freeshare music sites would crop up like mad if people were forced to pay for shit.
It's total hypocricy they sue people who make them their money.
One of the best bands I know would glady give away their music for free if it gave them more exposure, instead of it all going to a narrow 50 artists signed up to the labels.
I stopped reading when you couldn't differentiate between "know" and "no". You claim to live in Newfoundland. You're not anywhere near a music expert and I'd be shocked if you knew someone with a net worth over $50k.
You are a loan-shirking, benefit-leeching scumbag. And an uneducated retard, to boot. Hope this helps.
Fact is that we all know we're stealing when we pirate stuff offline, be it music, movies, books, games or whatever. We all justify it by telling ourselves, "Everyone pirates so the odds of them ever coming after ME for doing it are slim-to-none."
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Lungredisgod here is some food for thought. Read it, educate yourself...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100302/2310128377.shtml (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100302/2310128377.shtml)
and be happy that you didn't have to pay for this "food"...
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Right. The artist can gain from you, but cant lose.
Does Justin Bieber know that I just downloaded like all of his songs? no
But couldn't you look at it from the perspective of comparing it to a grocery store? The VAST majority of what is on the shelves isn't going to sell, so why can't I just take it for my own consumption?
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Lungredisgod here is some food for thought. Read it, educate yourself...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100302/2310128377.shtml (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100302/2310128377.shtml)
and be happy that you didn't have to pay for this "food"...
Just look at it from a competitive standpoint. Who is going to want to invest their own time, money and effort into developing a product if it's just going to get stolen?
The Chinese have shown that it is possible to steal entire car designs. Is it really alright for some Chinese firm to profit off the millions in R&D that BMW spent just because of China's lax IP laws and their aptitude for stealing tech?
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Furthermore, you didn't answer the question, you skirted by it? Do you think that a artist's music shouldn't be copywritten or that they shouldn't be compensated for making music?
If so, if you get a job, should you be paid for your work?
Lol so'd you'd agree even the one percent of artist in labels that make money still get a small fraction of what their owed your prooving my point only furthre. Even these superstars would benefit if all their music was given out for free and they made there money from touring, thanks for prooving my point.
Well your asking the ideal question. Should an artist pay 99 percent of it's income to a label, just so they can get the 1 percent essentially fucking all other artists over, or should we move to a live performance model, were artist made albums or recorded singles to promote their band.
OF course there songs should be copyrighted not so they can sell them as albums but someone else can't destroy there potential revenue through touring.
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Lol so'd you'd agree even the one percent of artist in labels that make money still get a small fraction of what their owed your prooving my point only furthre. Even these superstars would benefit if all their music was given out for free and they made there money from touring, thanks for prooving my point.
Well your asking the ideal question. Should an artist pay 99 percent of it's income to a label, just so they can get the 1 percent essentially fucking all other artists over, or should we move to a live performance model, were artist made albums or recorded singles to promote their band.
OF course there songs should be copyrighted not so they can sell them as albums but someone else can't destroy there potential revenue through touring.
Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when your posts look like they were written by a third grader?
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Just look at it from a competitive standpoint. Who is going to want to invest their own time, money and effort into developing a product if it's just going to get stolen?
The Chinese have shown that it is possible to steal entire car designs. Is it really alright for some Chinese firm to profit off the millions in R&D that BMW spent just because of China's lax IP laws and their aptitude for stealing tech?
This is such a myth, do you know how many people out there right now that are making albums out of their own pocket. My guitar instructor in high school (charged 40 bucks a hour, got a full scholarship in the highest rated music program in the country) did that 40 hours a week stayed up every night of the week just so he could make a demo.
You gotta understand 90.9 percent cd sales goto pr reps, and million dollar studios that use vocoders instead of finding people that can actually sing. Than about 9 percent (99.9) of artist get basically minimum wage, to bust their balls, than about 0.1 percent actually make a few dollars. but still 90 percent of their money goes back to paying for studio time for the 1000 other artists that can't make money.
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Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when your posts look like they were written by a third grader?
you know I got you beat so that's the best you can do. I know my shit so fuck off alright unless you can actually counter what I'm saying.
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This is such a myth, do you know any many people out there right now are making albums out of their own pocket. My guitar instructor in high school (charged 40 bucks a hour, got a full scholarship in the highest rated music program in the country) did that 40 hours a week stayed up every night of the week just so he could make a demo.
You gotta understand 90.9 percent cd sales goto pr reps, and million dollar studios that use vocoders instead of finding people that can actually sing. Than about 9 percent (99.9) of artist get basically minimum wage, to bust their balls, than about 0.1 percent actually make a few dollars. but still 90 percent of their money goes back to paying for studio time for the 1000 other artists that can't make money.
Just stop talking. It's clear that you have never taken anything close to a class on economics.
you know I got you beat so that's the best you can do. I know my shit so fuck off alright unless you can actually counter what I'm saying.
You've never had me beat on any topic, ASJ_Chaotic gimmick. You are nothing more than an uneducated, loan-shirking, benefit-leeching dirtbag who thinks he's a know-it-all, despite the fact that your grammatical prowess indicates that you possess, at best, a middle school education.
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Just stop talking. It's clear that you have never taken anything close to a class on economics.
You've never had me beat on any topic, ASJ_Chaotic gimmick. You are nothing more than an uneducated, loan-shirking, benefit-leeching dirtbag who thinks he's a know-it-all, despite the fact that your grammatical prowess indicates that you possess, at best, a middle school education.
Lol again your not saying anything, I would appear to know the music industry better than you do. So QFT.
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Lol again your not saying anything, I would appear to know the music industry better than you do. So QFT.
There's no point to debating a retard like yourself, AXA. If you made a valid point then you'd get a valid response.
Thanks for playing.
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Just look at it from a competitive standpoint. Who is going to want to invest their own time, money and effort into developing a product if it's just going to get stolen?
The Chinese have shown that it is possible to steal entire car designs. Is it really alright for some Chinese firm to profit off the millions in R&D that BMW spent just because of China's lax IP laws and their aptitude for stealing tech?
And now the Chinese are saying to car manufacturers if you want more marketshare, then you are going to have to "give" us you secrets an research with hybrid and electric cars...
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And now the Chinese are saying to car manufacturers if you want more marketshare, then you are going to have to "give" us you secrets an research with hybrid and electric cars...
I'm not talking about patents for engineering, or movies or anything else I'm talking about exclusively music.
As I said the labels gain from selling songs not the artist it's a ponzi scheme, sure there a select few that make a bit from albums but the vast majority don't. But this is just proving the point you guys are all pleased that a mother with children is being finacially destoryed by an industry, that has no intereset other than fucking people over. You guys just feel the guilt relief that you may not be paying for music but atleast this mother is.
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Exactly, imagine a woman at Victoria's Secret..."oh, this looks nice..." and she takes 10 of them, then goes down to Wicked Temptations...and takes about 5 see thru bras...
Then goes to Kohl's and gets 5 dresses, "whew, shopping is quite hard!"
Lungredisgod needs to realize, nothing in life is free, not even pussy.
And for artists not be compensated for their work...he needs to imagine himself as a artist, how are you gonna eat, pay your bills, pay for instruments, etc if you are not paid?
Yup - then imagine that person getting a $1.5 million fine for it, instead of a misdemeanour wrist slap and you'd be outraged.
It's a crime - but a petty crime and hence it should not be something you pay for the rest of your life.
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Yup - then imagine that person getting a $1.5 million fine for it, instead of a misdemeanour wrist slap and you'll be outragaged.
It's a crime - but a petty crime and hence it should not be something you pay for the rest of your life.
IT's a crime because the laws don't reflect the current age we live in. Could you imagine if vince started sueing us for posting his pics, do you think we'd start throwing money at him not a chance, we just stop talking about him plain and simple.
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I really enjoy when BF gets after it 8)