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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: tallgerman on December 06, 2010, 05:12:50 AM
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by the way how did mentzer differ from dorian?
did dorian train under mentzer?
or?
anyone read dorian's blood n guts?(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/homegym_2135_63996729)
(http://www.bodybuilding-pics.com/100/images/Dorian_Yates_photo230.jpg)
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Mentzer's methods were not working great that's why there are almost no people doing them.
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(http://109.69.57.98/nytn/0964/120110114702_4b4d504639781.jpg)
what about dorian?
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Different than Menzer's methods...they work for some people but not for the majority.
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dorian was the apprentice.
he admitted it himself.
he took jones and mentzers ideas and moulded a system from them.
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they kinda did some photo ops back in the day where metzner was training dorian
but that was not a permanent thing, as dorian was from engalnd and had training partners, and like to do his own thing
dorian was known for intensity, but he didnt dot HIT technically like metzner...........he did more set, and hard warm up sets that wouldnt strictly bn deemed HIT
metzner was a mess for most of the 80s and 90............he was in no position to mentor anyone.......
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How awesome does Haney look in that pic!
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they kinda did some photo ops back in the day where metzner was training dorian
but that was not a permanent thing, as dorian was from engalnd and had training partners, and like to do his own thing
dorian was known for intensity, but he didnt dot HIT technically like metzner...........he did more set, and hard warm up sets that wouldnt strictly bn deemed HIT
metzner was a mess for most of the 80s and 90............he was in no position to mentor anyone.......
Spot on.
I don't know how much Mentzer really contributed to the establishing of HIT as a proper school of training. The idea was originally Arthur Jones', which Mentzer spoke and wrote volumes about, inbetween injecting popular philosophical phrases and arguments coined mostly by Ayn Rand, Nietzsche and Aristotle, to make the whole presentation look intellectual, when most of it was just window dressing.
Dorian himself mentioned in interviews and elsewhere that he never really got mentored or even trained by Mike regularly. They just did a photoshoot or 2 together, when Doz visited the US.
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blood and guts totaly changed my perspective on training, and totaly improved me and i wished id read it before i even started training, but saying i started before it was published thats all hindsight..
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FFS this Mentzer stuff is doing my head in, let the poor bastard rest in peace.
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Mike Mentzer training Dorian Yates
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mentzer did train dorian, twice in golds venice.
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FFS this Mentzer stuff is doing my head in, let the poor bastard rest in peace.
Haha I'm always harsh with my views on him. Maybe it's because he used to take Ayn Rand's name in vain 8)
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Haha I'm always harsh with my views on him. Maybe it's because he used to take Ayn Rand's name in vain 8)
That old bag...... :-\ ::)
;D
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That old bag...... :-\ ::)
;D
Oh brother, you sound like you'd mug her for a marble rye, tough guy
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Haha I'm always harsh with my views on him. Maybe it's because he used to take Ayn Rand's name in vain 8)
I've got to be honest, I really have a fondness for him, he got me thinking about training, not just going with the "workout hard and often mentality "any longer, which I followed for two years and had literally NO size or strength increases. I've put almost 7 (!) inches on my arms, (I used to weigh 128 lbs 6 years ago shredded) and just generally blown up. I'm now a pretty lean 200 lbs. BUT, the biggest impact is in him helping me read Ayn Rand. Seriously, anybody who hates her and blasts her views need to sit and LISTEN/READ. The woman was spot on.
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I've got to be honest, I really have a fondness for him, he got me thinking about training, not just going with the "workout hard and often mentality "any longer, which I followed for two years and had literally NO size or strength increases. I've put almost 7 (!) inches on my arms, (I used to weigh 128 lbs 6 years ago shredded) and just generally blown up. I'm now a pretty lean 200 lbs. BUT, the biggest impact is in him helping me read Ayn Rand. Seriously, anybody who hates her and blasts her views need to sit and LISTEN/READ. The woman was spot on.
I haven't read his book, but did read a whole lot of articles he wrote in FLEX back in the 90s (which weren't ghost written) and what I've said above is the honest impression I got from him. But I know he's inspired many people, like yourself.
And you're absolutely right about AR 8)
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my method works also good, its lifting the weight up and then down.
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I haven't read his book, but did read a whole lot of articles he wrote in FLEX back in the 90s (which weren't ghost written) and what I've said above is the honest impression I got from him. But I know he's inspired many people, like yourself.
And you're absolutely right about AR 8)
I recommend Heavy Duty 2; Mind and Body and High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way, great reads. Read it HD 2 in a day. His radio interview with "T.C" on youtube is particularly interesting to listen to.
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Mike Mentzer training Dorian Yates
Used to love that particular piece of Hammer Strength equipment Dorian is using. My back used to get the best pumps from that machine...
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HDII had me go from 165 to 190 in 4 months, with very little change in bf%.
However, I went from a sport of running around all of the time (tennis) to doing no cardio, as my collegiate career was finished, so objectively, not running around all of the time accounted for some of my natural weight gain.
I ate a very well balanced diet, including 2 Myoplex shakes a day (this was 1998). I also took Phosphagen HP, which was popular at the time. Eggs, milk, lots of nuts, bananas, apples, grapefruit, roast chicken, tuna, sushi, oatmeal was basically all that I ate, except for pizza on training day.
I started training once every 4 days, then went to once ever 5 days, where I made my best progress. After training sessions, due to reading/digesting everything ever written by Arthur Jones, I ate an entire pizza, as I envisioned myself as Sergio Oliva in 1972 (still to this day, I think the most impressive bodybuilder of any era, that year).
Many that knew me well, including my mother, accused me of juicing, as I had a half brother that was an obvious juicer.
Eventually, I became a knucklehead and forgot that I was bodybuilding, not powerlifting. This lead to piriformis syndrome, some back pain that resulted from muscular imbalance (fixing it still, but is a whole lot better), and not directly training arms (mistake).
Now, I am trying to get leaner, play golf, and get sleep (tough to do with a newborn).
Where I think Mentzer was truly off in his theories was that a pump was NOT necessary. It is not necessary for strength gains, but I feel it is necessary for changes in muscular appearance. This activity is all about illusion in the first place, no?
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HDII had me go from 165 to 190 in 4 months, with very little change in bf%.
However, I went from a sport of running around all of the time (tennis) to doing no cardio, as my collegiate career was finished, so objectively, not running around all of the time accounted for some of my natural weight gain.
I ate a very well balanced diet, including 2 Myoplex shakes a day (this was 1998). I also took Phosphagen HP, which was popular at the time. Eggs, milk, lots of nuts, bananas, apples, grapefruit, roast chicken, tuna, sushi, oatmeal was basically all that I ate, except for pizza on training day.
I started training once every 4 days, then went to once ever 5 days, where I made my best progress. After training sessions, due to reading/digesting everything ever written by Arthur Jones, I ate an entire pizza, as I envisioned myself as Sergio Oliva in 1972 (still to this day, I think the most impressive bodybuilder of any era, that year).
Many that knew me well, including my mother, accused me of juicing, as I had a half brother that was an obvious juicer.
Eventually, I became a knucklehead and forgot that I was bodybuilding, not powerlifting. This lead to piriformis syndrome, some back pain that resulted from muscular imbalance (fixing it still, but is a whole lot better), and not directly training arms (mistake).
Now, I am trying to get leaner, play golf, and get sleep (tough to do with a newborn).
Where I think Mentzer was truly off in his theories was that a pump was NOT necessary. It is not necessary for strength gains, but I feel it is necessary for changes in muscular appearance. This activity is all about illusion in the first place, no?
The pump is not essential
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That's pretty damn impressive SilverSpoon! You went from 165 to 190 in 4 months with little change in bodyfat and absolutely no cardio training once every 4 or 5 days? I'm curious man, could you post up some of your strength progressions that occured within that 4 month period? As my own example my leg press went from 3 plates per side to 5 plates per side for 6 reps over a 5 week period training legs once every 6 days.
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DJ, I don't have my journals in front of me, but my deadlift went from 185 x 17 (first session) to 315 x 12 or so. My traps and erectors grew the most. I looked waaay out of balance, as I had traps that were too big.
My shoulders grew very well on the Nautilus lateral raise/ohp pre-exhaust (seperate machines, not the original pre-exhaust model).
I did not focus enough on direct arm work, which was stupid, but HDII did not advocate much direct arm work.
I wish I would have focused more on barbell squats, as at the time, I had access to the finest machines in the world (MedX, Nautilus and Hammer Strength), so I used them.
My quads grew like crazy from the leg extension/leg press pre-exhaust advocated by HDII. I got up to using the entire stack on the MedX leg extension (not in the first 4 months mind you) for perfect 4/2/4 cadence, for 9 or 10 repetitions.
I would throw up after nearly every workout, as I trained like a man possessed. I have a very compulsive personality, and that is the only way I knew how to train (before I tempered this compulsion down a few notches). This personality trait/flaw/positive is why I never tried drugs or gambling. Truth, I never even tried weed.
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my method works also good, its lifting the weight up and then down.
hahaha
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Thanks for the reply man! So I take it that you got the most grow in your traps, delts, and quads yes? What about your arms and your torso (chest/back)? And did you follow the exact protocol that Mentzer advocated? Day 1: Chest/Back 3 or 4 days off then Day 2: Legs and then another 3 or 4 days off then Day 3: Delts/Arms then another 3 or 4 days off and then Day 4: Legs? Also, it's pretty amazing to me that you didn't really get fatter and gained mostly muscle with training every 4 or 5 days and no cardio :-0 P.S. Maybe you can see from my post that I'm a bit obsessive myself ;D
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DJ, I followed it to the letter, but started with 4 days of rest, then 5 (where I made my best progress--this probably came after the initial 4 months).
You have to realize I came from a cardio based background (tennis), and was practically starved at 160-165. So, I was ready to blow up and would more than likely gained 10 pounds without doing anything weight related.
My chest got bigger, especially doing the Nautilus 10 degree chest and Nautilus Series III bench press in combination. Of course my back got bigger, but not as developed as my traps.
Where I eventually got derailed is when I got so obsessed about form and cadence of the repetition (took too much of the athleticism out of training), and my ego got in the way where I became too obsessed about the amount of weight I was moving, where I stopped feeling the muscles doing the work.
This should have been a red flag to me, but I listened to Mentzer a bit too much, and became completely not concerned about a pump. I stopped doing calves as well, which was a mistake, but Mike was telling trainees to not train them if they weren't growing.
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The pump is not essential
i disagree.
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did a search blood and guts book goes for 85 bucks and up used while mentzer's the wisdom of mentzer can be had for 7 dollars. i think that speaks volumes.
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i disagree.
::) no pump it is then.
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Where I eventually got derailed is when I got so obsessed about form and cadence of the repetition (took too much of the athleticism out of training), and my ego got in the way where I became too obsessed about the amount of weight I was moving, where I stopped feeling the muscles doing the work.
This should have been a red flag to me, but I listened to Mentzer a bit too much, and became completely not concerned about a pump. I stopped doing calves as well, which was a mistake, but Mike was telling trainees to not train them if they weren't growing.
A post every bber should read, IMO. Same thing happened to me. Except I wasn't even obsessed with form, just weight on the bar. Pretty soon I wasn't feeling anything, and the injuries started piling up. I messed up practically every joint to some degree and am still trying to correct my form years later, all the while being forced to baby joints that will explode at the slightest provocation.
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DJ, I followed it to the letter, but started with 4 days of rest, then 5 (where I made my best progress--this probably came after the initial 4 months).
You have to realize I came from a cardio based background (tennis), and was practically starved at 160-165. So, I was ready to blow up and would more than likely gained 10 pounds without doing anything weight related.
My chest got bigger, especially doing the Nautilus 10 degree chest and Nautilus Series III bench press in combination. Of course my back got bigger, but not as developed as my traps.
Where I eventually got derailed is when I got so obsessed about form and cadence of the repetition (took too much of the athleticism out of training), and my ego got in the way where I became too obsessed about the amount of weight I was moving, where I stopped feeling the muscles doing the work.
This should have been a red flag to me, but I listened to Mentzer a bit too much, and became completely not concerned about a pump. I stopped doing calves as well, which was a mistake, but Mike was telling trainees to not train them if they weren't growing.
The calves thing is weird, I stopped directly training them 4 years ago from the advice and they have grown 3 inches...my tibialis is very well developed especially from all the negatives on leg days. Mike wasn't saying "don't get a pump"-He was merely describing what a pump was; temporary blood increase to the working muscle. Yes, if getting a pump helps you train more intensely for psychological reasons(eg visual motivation), go ahead, but he was simply trying to explain that it is not the growth stimulus itself. Like Mike said "Hell, there're guys over at Gold's gym who've been getting a pump pretty much everyday, sometimes twice a day for over 20 years, you'd think they'd have 30 inch arms by now ". ;D
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I've got to be honest, I really have a fondness for him, he got me thinking about training, not just going with the "workout hard and often mentality "any longer, which I followed for two years and had literally NO size or strength increases. I've put almost 7 (!) inches on my arms, (I used to weigh 128 lbs 6 years ago shredded) and just generally blown up. I'm now a pretty lean 200 lbs. BUT, the biggest impact is in him helping me read Ayn Rand. Seriously, anybody who hates her and blasts her views need to sit and LISTEN/READ. The woman was spot on.
we are seeing a lack of ayn rand in our economic downturn and debt problem now
she was widely read in the reagan white house during eocnomic growth and plenty times for common man with real weage going up
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can someone sum up blood+guts?
what are the workouts and advice?
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we are seeing a lack of ayn rand in our economic downturn and debt problem now
she was widely read in the reagan white house during eocnomic growth and plenty times for common man with real weage going up
Seriously, objectivism itself has solidified my childhood perception of morality. I always knew that the "put others first (even strangers)", "sacrifice your hapiness" and "being responsible for the well being of every lazy, immoral riffraff" mentality was a bullshit cop-out for people who can't take responsibility from the age of 10. BTW Kiwiol, we need to start a Team Rand, guy.
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::) no pump it is then.
whats wrong, porky?
do you think if you post think if you post that pic long enough that people will start believing its me? what a wonderful, magical little land you must live in. lol
anyway, no matter who that is, its still a far sight better than you- look at you- wtf all that effort so far and you still look like shit!
keep up the good work, ass crack.
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DJ, I don't have my journals in front of me, but my deadlift went from 185 x 17 (first session) to 315 x 12 or so. My traps and erectors grew the most. I looked waaay out of balance, as I had traps that were too big.
My shoulders grew very well on the Nautilus lateral raise/ohp pre-exhaust (seperate machines, not the original pre-exhaust model).
I did not focus enough on direct arm work, which was stupid, but HDII did not advocate much direct arm work.
I wish I would have focused more on barbell squats, as at the time, I had access to the finest machines in the world (MedX, Nautilus and Hammer Strength), so I used them.
My quads grew like crazy from the leg extension/leg press pre-exhaust advocated by HDII. I got up to using the entire stack on the MedX leg extension (not in the first 4 months mind you) for perfect 4/2/4 cadence, for 9 or 10 repetitions.
I would throw up after nearly every workout, as I trained like a man possessed. I have a very compulsive personality, and that is the only way I knew how to train (before I tempered this compulsion down a few notches). This personality trait/flaw/positive is why I never tried drugs or gambling. Truth, I never even tried weed.
you trained hard, that is the secret. not the routine in itself.
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Seriously, objectivism itself has solidified my childhood perception of morality. I always knew that the "put others first (even strangers)", "sacrifice your hapiness" and "being responsible for the well being of every lazy, immoral riffraff" mentality was a bullshit cop-out for people who can't take responsibility from the age of 10. BTW Kiwiol, we need to start a Team Rand, guy.
PJim, Rand is one of the most influential writers of any era, for good reason.
Ed Snyder, owner of the Philadelphia Flyers, Sixers, etc. is a huge fan of Rand. I once sat with him in his personal box at a Flyers game and we barely watched the game, as we were engaged in a discussion on objectivisim (2000 or 2001).
Team Rand would be a good idea.
My take on objectivism has helped form my views on charity, as it is best done anonymously, not forced by the government through assistance programs (this issue is sort of hot in my mind during this time of year, when I personally choose to help families in need--I do not seek recognition).
Interesting that Anton LaVey was a huge advocate of Rand, yet dead-set against traditional notions of religion; I don't feel the two are mutually exclusive.
Regarding Blood and Guts, it is a very good book, especially where Dorian speaks of healthy fats in the diet. I have a copy that a much older lifter gave me about 7 years ago. I was a bit better built at the time, as I was living with the parents, and training in a fully equipped Nautilus/Hammer Strength/free weight basement that I personally outfitted with the best equipment for training, selecting each piece carefully (trap bars, Buffalo bar, neck machine, Nautilus plate loaded pullover, etc.). I don't get to train there as often as I would like, but I am getting back on the horse with better dietary knowledge and no attempt to look huge, which I actually think is a key part of getting huge.
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whats wrong, porky?
do you think if you post think if you post that pic long enough that people will start believing its me? what a wonderful, magical little land you must live in. lol
anyway, no matter who that is, its still a far sight better than you- look at you- wtf all that effort so far and you still look like shit!
keep up the good work, ass crack.
everyone knows its you princess, i don't have to try.
no need to melt about it. just accept you look like shit and do something about it, like i am.
oh and you better right click and save my old pics slim, because i'll never be that fat again. Every month im getting slimmer. Sooner or later i'll be ripped - what will your excuse be then ?
p.s. your frog like physique has nothing on me even in my current state.
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my training is super scientific...i go from exercise to exercise lifting the weights up and down. for extra intensity i sometimes do 2 exercises rite in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!! whew now thats trainin!!!!
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can someone sum up blood+guts?
what are the workouts and advice?
Let see...the most important message from any modern bodybuilding guide will be "USE YOUR BRAINS, YOU FOOL". What you should do is know your weaknesses and your limitations and build your exercises around those facts, using guidelines of those books. After few years of training you should know how your body works, and without that knowledge you are wasting your time. If you have that knowledge, you should be smart enough to know what exercises are good for you, and how to modify them to suit your training. There isn't any expert who would know those things better than you, if you know your body. If not, there isn't any expert who can teach you about that matter. Bodybuilding isn't for stupid and ignorant people. It is for the people, who have an interest to search better ways to train their body and learn about their mistakes.
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everyone knows its you princess, i don't have to try.
no need to melt about it. just accept you look like shit and do something about it, like i am.
oh and you better right click and save my old pics slim, because i'll never be that fat again. Every month im getting slimmer. Sooner or later i'll be ripped - what will your excuse be then ?
p.s. your frog like physique has nothing on me even in my current state.
yeah- ok! lol ahahahahahahahahahaha
look at you- you're truly fucked eh? you honestly think you look that good. you are STILL at least 25-30% body fat. you get that right?
you will never even come close to being resemblant of being remotely lean. even if you get down to say 15% (which is still fat for 'normal' people, for you it would be ripped) do you know how loose your skin will be, and how bad those stretch marks on your back fat and waist will look?
keep thinking your going to look like something out of mens fitness. it will never happen.
thanks for coming out.
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yeah- ok! lol ahahahahahahahahahaha
look at you- you're truly fucked eh? you honestly think you look that good. you are STILL at least 25-30% body fat. you get that right?
you will never even come close to being resemblant of being remotely lean. even if you get down to say 15% (which is still fat for 'normal' people, for you it would be ripped) do you know how loose your skin will be, and how bad those stretch marks on your back fat and waist will look?
keep thinking your going to look like something out of mens fitness. it will never happen.
thanks for coming out.
keep clutching at those straws.
ur world is collapsing around you with every further pound i drop.
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To be a protege of the Ray and Mike's, how much urine were you suppose to drink?
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by the way how did mentzer differ from dorian?
did dorian train under mentzer?
or?
(http://www.bodybuilding-pics.com/100/images/Dorian_Yates_photo230.jpg)
Haney by a mile
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::) no pump it is then.
nobody fucking believes it's him.
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fuck off punks. the pump IS NECESSARY!! LIVE FOR THE PUMP!!
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nobody fucking believes it's him.
only a retard like FATpanda would, hes living in la la land afterall.
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nobody fucking believes it's him.
it is him.
obviously his butt buddies will pretend different. ::)
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FP, way to ruin a thread.
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FP, way to ruin a thread.
be careful twink >:(
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Speaking of Mentzer, when do you'll think that his training methods reached their peak? His old-school 4 times a week body split into halves and each muscle trained twice weekly was a bit overkill, but his consolidated 2 compound exercises once a week was under kill, in my opinion. Remember there is over-training, and there is also under-training.
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i think that once steroids were introduced it skewed all potential for knowing what works during hit/hd.
what has been proven steroids or not is that you can build a tremendous physique with a hell of a lot less volume than 20 sets per bodypart.
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Mentzers methods were a "spin off" from Arthur Jones. He actually took Arthur's stuff and refined it. Pending genetics on recovery is the key with progression so a individual needs to find that "correct" amount of time between heavy sessions that fits them, some clients he had trained once a week some more often however the overall principles are solid.
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Mentzers methods were a "spin off" from Arthur Jones. He actually took Arthur's stuff and refined it. Pending genetics on recovery is the key with progression so a individual needs to find that "correct" amount of time between heavy sessions that fits them, some clients he had trained once a week some more often however the overall principles are solid.
x2
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be careful twink >:(
Seriously?
I'm not one to ever engage in internet battles, but you appear to invite them, despite the photographic evidence that you may in fact suffer from clinical delusions.
I train in a HIT fashion, can see visible abdominals, have never been over 20% bf (even at 218), have a family, have a job, and my products (Kiehl's) are clearly superiour.
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i think that once steroids were introduced it skewed all potential for knowing what works during hit/hd.
what has been proven steroids or not is that you can build a tremendous physique with a hell of a lot less volume than 20 sets per bodypart.
yeah, we can tell.
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One of the major differences btw Jones' and Mentzer's application of HIT is that Jones advocated full-body workouts, while Mentzer advocated split routines. I especially like the idea of hard and brief training, but I think that frequency should be rather often on a split routine, just my 2 cents.
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One of the major differences btw Jones' and Mentzer's application of HIT is that Jones advocated full-body workouts, while Mentzer advocated split routines. I especially like the idea of hard and brief training, but I think that frequency should be rather often on a split routine, just my 2 cents.
Yep. X2.
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Seriously?
I'm not one to ever engage in internet battles, but you appear to invite them, despite the photographic evidence that you may in fact suffer from clinical delusions.
I train in a HIT fashion, can see visible abdominals, have never been over 20% bf (even at 218), have a family, have a job, and my products (Kiehl's) are clearly superiour.
yet you feel the need to address me in a negative fashion for reasons you have no understanding of.
it is a message board - where anyone can say what they like.
it is possible for some people with a brain to ignore posts they are not interested in and focus on the topic that does.
i manager to go back and forth with 30 odd people on here on a daily basis from thread to thread while still typing things about the thread topic at hand - it causes no one else a problem.
if i suffer from delusion perhaps you suffer from attention deficit disorder.
and a severe lack of self esteem from you need to tell me you have a family ??? congratulations millions of people all over the world have families ::) you have a job ??? congratulations ::) i don't know what cleaning products have to do with anything ??? but congratulations ::) its a pity your spelling wasn't as superior ::)
now you want a medal ?
p.s. shut your fucking mouth fag.
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yeah, we can tell.
(http://www.jamnfitness.com/mikementzer.jpg)
(http://www.ironage.us/gallery/bodybuilders/viator.jpg)
(http://www.learn-bodybuilding.com/images/dorian_yates_front_double_biceps.jpg)
yes we can.
however i'm sure your boatloads of gear and your volume workouts gave you a physique to prove them wrong didn't it....... eh hold on a min:
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yet you feel the need to address me in a negative fashion for reasons you have no understanding of.
it is a message board - where anyone can say what they like.
it is possible for some people with a brain to ignore posts they are not interested in and focus on the topic that does.
i manager to go back and forth with 30 odd people on here on a daily basis from thread to thread while still typing things about the thread topic at hand - it causes no one else a problem.
if i suffer from delusion perhaps you suffer from attention deficit disorder.
and a severe lack of self esteem from you need to tell me you have a family ??? congratulations millions of people all over the world have families ::) you have a job ??? congratulations ::) i don't know what cleaning products have to do with anything ??? but congratulations ::) its a pity your spelling wasn't as superior ::)
now you want a medal ?
p.s. shut your fucking mouth fag.
Learn to take a joke.
I have wished you well in other posts, but am merely taking the piss in this discussion.
I used to speak somewhat frequently with Mike on the phone, due to his relationship with my former boss, Roger Schwab.
We even discussed what we were reading for leisure.
We were friendly until one e-mail exchange which took place eerily close to his death.
It involved his commenting on a book I was reading, Persig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which he said was filled with mysticism and lacked objectivity.
I could tell that he clearly never read the book, or its sequel, due to the fact that he must not have read the full title, which includes "An Iquiry Into Values".
I called him on his area of ignorance, and he left a drunken, expletive riddled message on my voicemail.
I saved it for a time, and it became a cause for laughter between myself and a fellow Mentzerite. We grew sweet mustaches in his honour.
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Hey Silverspoon, I'm curious man, were you and Mentzer discussing training within these said phone conversations? And if yes, is this when he was rather hell-bent on everyone doing his consolidation routine?
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P.S. I know that I'm gonna catch a beating from some of the HIT purists with this one, but I am conviced that 3 work sets for the same exercise are vastly superior to 1 set of the same exercise. I have tried both protocols, and for me 3 sets are vastly superior to 1 set
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DJ, for some bizarre reason, I became obsessed over repetition "cadence" at about this time in my training "career" (that sounds so lame).
What is interesting to me, is that these SuperSlow (or as Trevor Smith would call them--ZMRs) had a very positive effect on my quadriceps when using the MedX leg extension and MedX leg press.
Unfortunately for me, I had devolved into doing too few repetitions, because concommitant with "cadence", I became interesting in TUL or TUT (time under load or time under tension), and truly believed that any exercise over 60 seconds was not worth doing. I was wrong on this count as well, as I have had a very good overally "metabolic effect" (how can you measure that?) by doing squat sets of up to 30 repetitions (sort of like Dante's widowmakers--yet another spin/take on HIT).
Because I have been a lifetime natural, and wanted to achieve great results, I developed a laser beam focus on the minutia, and forgot the big fucking picture of what I was initially in the gym to do--bodybuild!!!
To answer your question (sorry I digressed in the first instance), Mike pretty much wanted everyone on the consolodation routine at this point, either 3 exercises full body (almost an exact copy of Dr. Doug McGuff's "Ultimate Exercise" program) done once per week, or the two exercise program, rotating deadlift/incline press with squat/pulldown every 4-7 days.
Mike thought that due to the fact that I was facing so many of life's stressors (job, law school) that the consolodation routine was the right fit for me. I must admit that my physique didn't necessarily suffer at the time, but I did accumulate some bodyfat because I like to eat, and I wasn't training enough (intensity is never a problem for me) to adequately gain muscle mass. In essence, I became deconditioned, partly due to not keeping stricter dietary standards with so little training.
I could go on and on about my own training experience (mostly failures), but this is not about me.
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P.S. I know that I'm gonna catch a beating from some of the HIT purists with this one, but I am conviced that 3 work sets for the same exercise are vastly superior to 1 set of the same exercise. I have tried both protocols, and for me 3 sets are vastly superior to 1 set
Your findings mirror mine, for upper body.
For some reason, I respond very well to one working set for lower body, specifically regarding squats. Of course, for the past year and a half I have favored the high rep range (20-30 repetitions, which means 15+ are done in continuous fashion, with no pausing at the top), so that may have a lot to do with it.
I have taken the last 2 weeks off due to work/holiday/baby keeping me awake, but I start training again tomorrow, and I am just going to have a lot of fun.
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I also "experimented" with a moderately slow rep cadence 4 sec postive and a 4 sec negative with a total TUL of around 60 to 100 seconds and, quite frankly, it didn't do shit for me. I'm convinced that the set was just too damn long! I've finally "seen the light" so to speak and "remembered" what worked best for me. Namely 3 to 4 works sets of 1 compound movement for Push and 1 compound movement for Pull staying within the 4 to 6 reps per set range. And with this protocol, a set lasts no more than 20 seconds. And also, like you, I have "discovered" that 1 working set for Legs at a higher rep range, 10-15 reps, works best for legs.
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Well, there you go.
We could write a very brief book about bodybuilding.
It would be one page, and look strikingly similar to shit that Peary Rader wrote in IronMan 50-60 years ago.
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Sounds good man! And at the title of this book would be: PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD IS THE END ALL BE ALL OF MUSCULAR GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT, or something to that effect ;D