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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Coach is Back! on December 13, 2010, 11:52:23 AM

Title: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Coach is Back! on December 13, 2010, 11:52:23 AM
 8)


Today Federal District Judge Henry Hudson ruled against the Obama Administration on three essential points involving Obamacare:

1. Individuals who do not actively participate in commerce -- that is, who do not voluntarily purchase health insurance --  cannot be said to be participating in commerce under the United States Constitution's Commerce Clause, and there is no Supreme Court precedent providing otherwise;

2. The Necessary and Proper Clause of the Constitution cannot be used as a backdoor means to enforce a statute that is not otherwise constitutional under Congress's enumerated powers;

and 3. There is a difference between a tax and a penalty, there is much Supreme Court precedent in this regard, and the penalty provision in Obamacare is not a tax but a penalty and, therefore, is unconstitutional for it is applied to individuals who choose not to purchase health care.

 

Judge Hudson's ruling against the Obama Administration and for the Commonwealth of Virginia gives hope that the rule of law and the Constitution itself still having meaning.  Landmark Legal Foundation has filed several amicus briefs in this case, at the request of the Commonwealth, and will continue to provide support in the likely event the Commonwealth is required to defend this decision in the Fourth Circuit and U.S. Supreme Court.  Landmark would also like to congratulate Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli and the excellent lawyers in his office for their superb legal skills.

 

Landmark President Mark R. Levin declared:  "It is a great day for the rule of law and the citizenry.  Judge Hudson's ruling is ironclad, and General Cuccinelli deserves an enormous amount of credit for taking on this mater.  We look forward to continuing to work with him."
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: timfogarty on December 13, 2010, 02:45:40 PM
good.  maybe now we can get single payer.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Marty Champions on December 13, 2010, 02:51:21 PM
"the coach" i was very dissapointed i did not recieve your input as to whether we should pull out of afganistan spending 200 milion a day sir. Are you down to protest with me?
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Coach is Back! on December 13, 2010, 03:13:18 PM
Haven't opened that thread yet JF but I will. Tim, how much more useless crap do you want the government to add on? Polls have already shown (many polls) that the people do not want it as well doctors that will quit practice. Why does shit like this totally go over socialists heads? This commonsense.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: timfogarty on December 13, 2010, 03:22:36 PM
single payer:  we all belong to the same non-profit insurance company.  this insurance company spends nothing on advertisements, nothing on trying to drop patients who have serious diseases.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Coach is Back! on December 13, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
Work great for Europe.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: ManBearPig... on December 13, 2010, 03:38:39 PM
single payer:  we all belong to the same non-profit insurance company.  this insurance company spends nothing on advertisements, nothing on trying to drop patients who have serious diseases.

single payer also means government price setting = no incentive for more doctors = less doctors = nurses writing scripts / diagnosing / etc.

with an awesome single payer system, any canadian who can rub two pennies together comes to the US to get treated.

Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: timfogarty on December 13, 2010, 06:11:53 PM
with an awesome single payer system, any canadian who can rub two pennies together comes to the US to get treated.

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow-ctd/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

(http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Phantoms-500x387.jpg)
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: che on December 13, 2010, 06:24:07 PM
Work great for Europe.

Oh brother  ::)
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: tbombz on December 13, 2010, 07:07:30 PM
good.  maybe now we can get single payer.
  8)
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Kazan on December 13, 2010, 08:48:52 PM
good.  maybe now we can get single payer.

Or maybe the Federal government can start following the constitution for a change
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Coach is Back! on December 13, 2010, 09:21:41 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow-ctd/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

(http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Phantoms-500x387.jpg)

This is the problem with liberals, they truly think they no better than the rest when 90% of their initiatives fail....why do you suppose this is?
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Coach is Back! on December 13, 2010, 09:23:57 PM
  8)

Dude...seriously, you shouldn't even get involved. Hell, you probably don't even pay for your own gas and insurance and still have to ask mommy and daddy for money for your dates.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: delta9mda on December 13, 2010, 10:07:25 PM
coach doing some owning up in this bitch
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: OneMoreRep on December 14, 2010, 06:06:51 AM
single payer also means government price setting = no incentive for more doctors = less doctors = nurses writing scripts / diagnosing / etc.

Too late my well-hung friend, nurses (Nurse Practitioners to be exact) have been medically diagnosing and prescribing drugs to patients since the 1960's.  Rural areas are renowned for employing that of Nurse Practitioners to treat common day morbidities (Diabetes, Hypertension, Asthma, Upper Respiratory Infections etc..).  Physicians need to pay off massive amounts of debt incurred throughout Med school and during their residencies and, in light of that, they typically move towards a specialty versus Internal Medicine, which consists of most doctors that you see for checkups and even ER visits.  Physician Assistants have also become key players in the realm of medicine by serving as extensions to MD's that can treat their patients and follow them throughout their stay in most hospitals.

Now, with ObamaCare, you will see a further decline in the amount of actual MD's treating you when you visit the hospital.  Statistics show that less than 8% of Med school graduates during 2009 pursued a career within Internal Medicine.  The trend is for new Doctors to go after a high-paying specialty (Gastrointestinal, Cardiac, General Surgery etc..) and not waste time making 150-200K (which turns to a measly 100-130K after taxes) by dabbling in primary care.  Because of this recent phenomenon and the new healthcare legislation, you will see more and more Nurse Practitioners treating patients in the hospitals by way of Internal Medicine (Primary Care).  Physician Assistants will also be doing the same thing.

I'm not trying to downplay the abilities of these advanced practice nurses (NPs) or PA's.  On the contrary, in my experience, I've found that most Nurse Practitioners and PA's that I've encountered are very well trained in Internal Medicine and have the general skillset needed to treat patients presenting with typical ailments.  They have the skills and the certification and licensing needed to do so, but it is always reassuring to know that you can also have an MD or two around to look at the bigger picture if need be (patients presenting with multiple comorbidities etc..)

Anyhow, onward with Coach's discussion..
"1"
 
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 14, 2010, 06:11:41 AM
It's always best to just walk it off...
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Tom on December 14, 2010, 06:31:37 AM
not sure why this is considered unconstitutional?

i mean we HAVE to have car insurance, so why is that okay, but being made to pay for health insurance isn't?

both not having car insurance and not having health insurance are destructive and costly and affect others.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Archer77 on December 14, 2010, 06:56:36 AM
The judge who ruled on this case is a member republican political group with close ties to the health care industry that spent a lot of money attempting to block health care reform.   Because the Judge's group wasn't directly involved in the case, it is not technically a conflict of interest but it is pretty damn close.   What can be said is that this ruling is completely political and has nothing to do with the law.  Whether you agree with health care reform or not it is very difficult to respect this kind of politicization of the law.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: ~UN_$ung~ on December 14, 2010, 07:22:31 AM
mark levine really is fucking garbage..........am i am pretty right leaning politically
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: spude on December 14, 2010, 08:17:34 AM
Too lazy to read all that shit, BUT why is it so hard for americans to get that having a good social healtcare DOES NOT make you communists! Its a fucking essential part of a civilized society. Country where half of the population cant get into hospital if they get sick cos of lack of money is fucked up, 3rd world country! Yes, we pay more taxes in finland, but we also get something with it. i would feel like a fucking murderer if i lived in your us of fucking a where poor people, trash or not, cant get proper treatment cos I was to greedy to pay a bit more $$$ to take care of them!
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 10:02:44 AM
The judge who ruled on this case is a member republican political group with close ties to the health care industry that spent a lot of money attempting to block health care reform.   Because the Judge's group wasn't directly involved in the case, it is not technically a conflict of interest but it is pretty damn close.   What can be said is that this ruling is completely political and has nothing to do with the law.  Whether you agree with health care reform or not it is very difficult to respect this kind of politicization of the law.

The indvidual mandate is pure horseshit and something CANDIDATE OBAMA said he was dead set against.   Its but one of the long list of things he lied his ass off about. 
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: ManBearPig... on December 14, 2010, 10:07:25 AM
Too lazy to read all that shit, BUT why is it so hard for americans to get that having a good social healtcare DOES NOT make you communists! Its a fucking essential part of a civilized society. Country where half of the population cant get into hospital if they get sick cos of lack of money is fucked up, 3rd world country! Yes, we pay more taxes in finland, but we also get something with it. i would feel like a fucking murderer if i lived in your us of fucking a where poor people, trash or not, cant get proper treatment cos I was to greedy to pay a bit more $$$ to take care of them!

LOL, you can't be this dense.

as for the genius who compared health care to car insurance: i can choose to not have car insurance by not having a car; i can't choose to not have healthcare according to Barry's new plan.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: ManBearPig... on December 14, 2010, 10:17:45 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow-ctd/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

(http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Phantoms-500x387.jpg)

what's your point?  if you think it's a good idea, why don't you pay my share of obamacare for me? 
well, your point doesn't really matter, as "your kind" (the libs) got their ass handed to them in the elections in november.  i predict the same for the next round of senate elections, and hopefully barry's gonna be gone in 2012. 

i wouldn't mind keeping him around, if he plays ball.  but he comes off as kind of a stubborn mule, so i don't think he will.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 10:31:40 AM
Problem is that Obamacare does nothing for the average guy - NOTHING.

It jacks up our rates, provides for less choices, and kills the economy. 

Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Shockwave on December 14, 2010, 10:35:39 AM
Im not to informed on the issue, but IMHO, its BULLSHIT that the government is trying to make it mandatory for me to pay for something.
In addition, one of my friends told me that they were going to try and put a tax on premium plans.
WTF would they try and TAX someone for having a better plan?! To PUNISH those that want different/better plans? WTF is going on?
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: jesusbod on December 14, 2010, 10:37:44 AM
single payer:  we all belong to the same non-profit insurance company.  this insurance company spends nothing on advertisements, nothing on trying to drop patients who have serious diseases.

One insurance company huh? Sounds like Communist to me...
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 10:39:20 AM
One insurance company huh? Sounds like Communist to me...

We need to get rid of insurance companies and have a true free market system to where prices will go drastically down and competition way up. 

Anywhere the govt gets involved = higher prices, more bogus red tape, etc etc.   
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Shockwave on December 14, 2010, 10:40:50 AM
We need to get rid of insurance companies and have a true free market system to where prices will go drastically down and competition way up. 

Anywhere the govt gets involved = higher prices, more bogus red tape, etc etc.   
I dont understand how people dont see that the government is starting to takeover right in front of us, and everyone is just handing it over to them.....
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Emmortal on December 14, 2010, 12:20:01 PM
I dont understand how people dont see that the government is starting to takeover right in front of us, and everyone is just handing it over to them.....

Starting?  What have you been doing, sleeping under a rock for the past 60 years?
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Archer77 on December 14, 2010, 03:15:03 PM
The indvidual mandate is pure horseshit and something CANDIDATE OBAMA said he was dead set against.   Its but one of the long list of things he lied his ass off about. 

I understand that but it has nothing to do with what I've said. Personally, I dislike mandates.  Where I am from auto insurance is mandated but yet you don't see the same individuals up in arms over it.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 03:18:00 PM
I understand that but it has nothing to do with what I've said. Personally, I dislike mandates.  Where I am from auto insurance is mandated but yet you don't see the same individuals up in arms over it.

That is because no one forces you to drive or own a car.    This obamacare mandate is pure fascist shit from the liarin chief who made a deal with the insurance companies to make us slaves to their system, with NO COST CONTROLS OR OPTIONS! 
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: timfogarty on December 14, 2010, 03:20:01 PM
what's your point?  if you think it's a good idea, why don't you pay my share of obamacare for me? 

do you already have medical insurance?  do you plan on keeping it?  then what are you worried about?

are you tired of paying extra (through your insurance or through copayments or through taxes) to cover the cost hospitals incur taking care of people without insurance?  those costs would disappear if everyone had insurance.
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 03:22:23 PM
do you already have medical insurance?  do you plan on keeping it?  then what are you worried about?

are you tired of paying extra (through your insurance or through copayments or through taxes) to cover the cost hospitals incur taking care of people without insurance?  those costs would disappear if everyone had insurance.


 ::)  ::)

That is another straw man argument.  do you really believe that een if 100% are covered that those supposed costs sings will ever get passed on to you? 

no!   It will go thecorporate rofits and divied out to shareholder sand exec bonuses and salaries.  Stop being a shill for KevorkianCare. 
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: timfogarty on December 14, 2010, 03:24:40 PM
That is another straw man argument.  do you really believe that een if 100% are covered that those supposed costs sings will ever get passed on to you? 

no!   It will go thecorporate rofits and divied out to shareholder sand exec bonuses and salaries. 

I agree.  that's why single payer is the best option
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 14, 2010, 03:30:44 PM
I agree.  that's why single payer is the best option

My thing is that we need a truly affordable option for people.   $500 a month for a single person, and over $1000 a month for a family is insane and just not affordable, and to be mandated to pay that by law is insane to me. 


Whether its public option, single payor, whatever, most people simply want something to where they wont be bankrupted if shit happens. 

I don't want a cadillac planor free shit, but at the same time, paying $500 a moth, with crazy deductibles, co pays, etc is robbery.   
Title: Re: Landmark Legal Foundation (Mark Levine) on "Obamacare"
Post by: magicuser on December 14, 2010, 04:55:14 PM
8)


Today Federal District Judge Henry Hudson ruled against the Obama Administration on three essential points involving Obamacare:

1. Individuals who do not actively participate in commerce -- that is, who do not voluntarily purchase health insurance --  cannot be said to be participating in commerce under the United States Constitution's Commerce Clause, and there is no Supreme Court precedent providing otherwise;

2. The Necessary and Proper Clause of the Constitution cannot be used as a backdoor means to enforce a statute that is not otherwise constitutional under Congress's enumerated powers;

and 3. There is a difference between a tax and a penalty, there is much Supreme Court precedent in this regard, and the penalty provision in Obamacare is not a tax but a penalty and, therefore, is unconstitutional for it is applied to individuals who choose not to purchase health care.

 

Judge Hudson's ruling against the Obama Administration and for the Commonwealth of Virginia gives hope that the rule of law and the Constitution itself still having meaning.  Landmark Legal Foundation has filed several amicus briefs in this case, at the request of the Commonwealth, and will continue to provide support in the likely event the Commonwealth is required to defend this decision in the Fourth Circuit and U.S. Supreme Court.  Landmark would also like to congratulate Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli and the excellent lawyers in his office for their superb legal skills.

 

Landmark President Mark R. Levin declared:  "It is a great day for the rule of law and the citizenry.  Judge Hudson's ruling is ironclad, and General Cuccinelli deserves an enormous amount of credit for taking on this mater.  We look forward to continuing to work with him."

nice

I can't wait until obama is gone.
no homo
no racist