Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Xerxes on January 08, 2011, 04:48:27 PM
-
.
-
People who can't see that Ronnie is better than Dorian have "intramuscular fat" in their brains.
-
So "density" has been an argument ND and co has used against Hulkster for years, this "density" turns out to be the level of "intramuscular fat" you have.
Can someone please explain to me how anyone can see someone elses "intramuscular fat" ?
This term sounds like bullshit, IMO it sounds like just another adjective for someone who is both ripped and really dry.
You got the answer and you A) can't comprehend it or B) don't want to
you can see ' density ' externally , it's the epitome of conditioning , Dorian = dense , Dillett = volume who is carrying more intramuscular fat ? take a wild guess ;)
you can't tell if someone is soft when they're not in shape?
-
What you do is take a sharp stabby implement and remove ND's eyes from his head, you then proceed to remove ones own eyes and place ND's ones in to your eye sockets. you should be able to see intramuscular fat at this point (and maybe ghosts).
-
You REALLY are throwing up LOTS of different synonyms for the EXACT same thing to make it look like there are more factors that there is IMHO.
WRONG people can have low bodyfat and still be holding water , people can be holding water and still have striations , people can be dense & dry and not be carrying much muscle , people can have lots of volume but not be very dense.
the zenith of conditioning is to be bone dry , and dense as stone while carrying the maximum amount of size.
-
We need FatPanda to clarify this.........someone PM him a link to this thread, he's blocked mine. :(
-
Density is one of those words in bodybuilding that has completely lost its original meaning, like "symmetry" before it
-
You have merged the two criterias, "dryness" and "bodyfat" into one word and made it look like it is some separate thing.
NO I haven't dryness is the absence of water , density is the absence of intramuscular fat , people can have lowe bodyfat and not be very dense , density ( and dryness ) is the best possible conditioning one can accomplish which is why people refer to 2001 as Ronnie's best . ever wonder why?
-
people refer to 2001 as Ronnie's best . ever wonder why?
They're schmoes?
-
They're schmoes?
Yeah and they post on bodybuilding message boards just like you ;) sights dedicated to me in thongs to use your catch phrase , outed. :D
-
We are going to need some photos for reference.
How about:
Absence of water vs absence of intramuscular fat, side by side
Low bodyfat but not dense vs low bodyfat and dense (i'm assuming the density isn't just about extra muscle size?)
Holding water with striations vs not holding water with striations
-
You can not see intramuscular fat, how can you possibly judge a physiques intramuscular fat ???
I explained this to you a few times now haven't I ? externally , you can compare Dorian Yates to Paul Dillet and see who is carrying more intramuscular fat especially from the back , you can see who is soft ( carrying more intramuscular fat ) and who is dense ( carrying less intramuscular fat ) you can see the depth , detail , separation and striations , all with your own eyes.
Ronnie 2000 is soft ( carrying more intramuscular fat ) compared to how he looked in 2001 ( while carrying bare bones intramuscular fat ) dense , get it? simple concept.
-
Ok serious question, how do you differentiate between dryness and "intramuscular fat" levels. Show me in pictures. Lets see if your examples are satisfactory.
Here you go , guess which pic he's carrying less intramuscular fat ;)
-
When you have had your face as close to oiled up men in thongs for as long as ND has, you can tell the difference between intramuscular fat and water.
-
We need FatPanda to clarify this.......
hasn't the internet suffered enough?
-
Take a wild guess , need help let me know. ;D
-
compare Dorian Yates to Paul Dillet
Dorian had less fat
-
hasn't the internet suffered enough?
Hows rehab? Maybe your group can discuss intramuscular fat and the impending results it has on ND's obsession over black men in thongs with low amounts of it.
-
No, looks like he has less bodyfat in left pic, intramuscular fat is INSIDE the muscle, you cant see it. :-\
You can see visually on the outside there is NO fat on the inside that is obscuring the muscle
that's like saying Fatpanda isn't really fat because you can see it in the inside? ???
-
Dorian had less fat
There you go , that simple.
-
Hows rehab? Maybe your group can discuss intramuscular fat and the impending results it has on ND's obsession over black men in thongs with low amounts of it.
if we discuss that then it would be the most interesting group discussion we've had so far...VH1 had me thinking that rehab would have been way funner........boo vh1
-
if we discuss that then it would be the most interesting group discussion we've had so far...VH1 had me thinking that rehab would have been way funner........boo vh1
You should absolutely discuss Getbig with your group, we could use the new recruits.
-
One is totally 20 weeks out and injured the other must be the form of his life. Still can't see where intramuscular fat can be judged here, total bullshit.
He wasn't in the side-by-side comparison I posted , the point still stands , he's 20 weeks out and guess what he needs to do? drop water and burn intramuscular fat , duh
yes you can't determine who is soft ( carrying more intramuscular fat ) and who isn't ::) dude get serious.
-
Elton can see Dorians intramuscular fat deposits.
(http://www.morethings.com/music/elton_john/elton_john-110.jpg)
Perhaps he borrowed his glasses to ND. ???
-
:)
-
Inside his skin = fat, inside muscle = intramuscular fat
Intramuscular fat is the fat stored inside the muscle, see white spots here for example, now let me ask again, how do you see inside someones muscles?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Prime.jpg)
inside his skin is fat? ??? you mean under his skin? are you shitting me? did you really just type inside his skin is fat? WTF?
-
You should absolutely discuss Getbig with your group, we could use the new recruits.
it's too soon for them to realize i'm a total closet case, i think
-
Elton can see Dorians intramuscular fat deposits.
Perhaps he borrowed his glasses to ND. ???
It's not just Dorian , it's any bodybuilder but you're here to troll in Hulkster's stead , have at it! it wouldn't be GetBig ;)
-
Ok under his skin mr nitpick! When you show me the difference between intramuscular fat and fat ill leave this alone.
Mr nitpcik? you can't grasp a LOT of concepts apparently
I just showed you multiple examples , you're still not bright enough to grasp the concept and I don't care if you leave it alone , you're only digging yourself in deeper
here is another example of the same bodybuilder carrying more intramuscular fat ( and holding water ) , need some more help? Mr Skin? :D
-
It's not just Dorian , it's any bodybuilder but you're here to troll in Hulkster's stead , have at it! it wouldn't be GetBig ;)
Hulkster is even more of a sad case than you ND. At least you go some way to being analytical, it is still analysis of men in thongs though...
-
:)
perfect example , thank you. ;D
-
This is dense...
-
Hulkster is even more of a sad case than you ND. At least you go some way to being analytical, it is still analysis of men in thongs though...
I agree with you here.
men in thongs = serious business
and for the record Dorian never wore a thong , Ronnie started that trend. :-\
-
You showed me someone with less fat than someone else. Show me the difference between intramuscular fat and fat in pictures.
No, you do not realize what you are looking at. Look at any muscle group on Munzer. Each strand of muscle has it's own set of stiations, not just separation. Both men have seperation, but Phil has zero striations in any of his muscle groups that are visible in this pic. Phil does have some striations within the muscle groups in places on his body, but show me a pic like the one I posted where he has striations with in each muscle group and strands of muscle.
-
You showed me a pic of ronnie ripped and ronnie less ripped. I see no proof, no basis whatsoever for the possibility of seeing someones intramuscular fat.
I just proved my point , again.
more ripped ? or more dense ? and dry? and it's not seeing someone's intramuscular fat in FACT xerexes it's seeing more pure muscle and not so much the fat that obscures it.
-
it's too soon for them to realize i'm a total closet case, i think
Never to soon in rehab.
-
He is dryer and has different genetics to Phil.
As said density is a synonym.
-
He is drier and has different genetics to Phil.
As said density is a synonym.
-
So you're saying intramuscular fat storages are eliminated when you can see striations? So striations = density, meaning density is an extra meaningless synonym just to make it look like there are more criterias than there is.
Um where did I say that? Striations = striations, but you are right when you state that the intramuscular fat blurs striations.
-
Um where did I say that? Striations = striations, but you are right when you state that the intramuscular fat blurs striations.
Exactly striations are striations , which are genetic for the most part but obviously you need to be dry and lean as fuck to see them.
-
He is dryer and has different genetics to Phil.
As said density is a synonym.
Munzer is NOT dryer, in fact Phil in that pic is a little flat because of dehydration. Again you do not know what you are looking at no offense. Find a pic of Phil in that show and I will bet he has striated glutes. He is obviously very low in subcutaneous bodyfat. Insulin seems to go after the fat receptors in the upper body mainly the shoulders and chest, but not them alone.
-
He is dryer and has different genetics to Phil.
As said density is a synonym.
different genetics? you got that right , he's also harder ( i.e. denser ) than Phil density is a synonym to hardness , Munzer is not only drier he's denser to boot
-
What about the argument that you can or can't see the rhomboids....
-
What about the argument that you can or can't see the rhomboids....
Well now that's a whole other ball of wax :-X you'll get no argument from me
-
Exactly striations are striations , which are genetic for the most part but obviously you need to be dry and lean as fuck to see them.
Of course not, all muscles have striations the actual "pattern" of these striations are genetic, but only to some degree.
-
(http://canitbesaturdaynow.com/images/fpics/1584/July_2_7_.jpg)
-
Striations are effectively the only way to judge a persons density right?= same criteria = same meaning
Density would be thickness of a muscle which can also be due to a degree to it's size, but not always. I have seen women runners who have very small muscles, but still have striations. I have also seen some pretty big guys who are thick as hell with no visible striations.
-
Of course not, all muscles have striations the actual "pattern" of these striations are genetic, but only to some degree.
Some people are naturally far more striated than others .
I had striations in my delts when i was about twelve.
-
Look at pics of Dennis James early in his career and you will see striations that he has lost due to his quest to get bigger.
-
So you're saying intramuscular fat storages are eliminated when you can see striations? So striations = density, meaning density is an extra meaningless synonym just to make it look like there are more criterias than there is.
No he never said IM fat can only be seen by striations, he just said striations are an easy way to see it. You know youre losing this debate and youre trying to find ways to justify what you believe.
-
Some people are naturally far more striated than others .
I had striations in my delts when i was about twelve.
No not true at all. Like I said, some people have different patterns of striations, but all muscle is striated. If you can't see them anymore then lose some fat and or stop using insulin.
-
Refute this or = I win.
You can see density. The difference between a "balloony" (think coleman 03) musculature vs a super dense rock hard (Dorian circa 95 or 96 GGP).
-
So Jay has been on insulin since day one?
You realize youre trying to argue with someone who is generally considered to be an expert and lives/eats bodybuilding for a long time right?
And you, a ignorant kid from Finland, is trying to argue? Why? (FYI I do like you Xerxes, I just dont understand why youre arguing with a credible source. (Jim/Disgusted)
-
No not true at all. Like I said, some people have different patterns of striations, but all muscle is striated. If you can't see them anymore then lose some fat and or stop using insulin.
Very true, some people have far more prominent striations and a harder look to their muscles.
Compare a most muscular of Dorian to Ronnie. Ronnie is far more striated in the upperbody. This wasn't due to dorians conditioning, he was Mr. conditioning.
-
Re No Intramuscular fat
-
You realize youre trying to argue with someone who is generally considered to be an expert and lives/eats bodybuilding for a long time right?
And you, a ignorant kid from Finland, is trying to argue? Why?
Expert in bodybuilding. ::)
Haha a rather dubious honor.
-
So Jay has been on insulin since day one?
I am not sure when Jay started his insulin use, but you can see his physique change thru out the years.
-
No that is water IMO not "intermuscular fat", Dorian was way drier making him look hard as rock, density is a synonym to striations and dry and not a separate criteria IMO
Jim made it very obvious with the pic of phil vs Munzer. The muscular quality looks way different. Phil is still ripped, but he has the kind if IM fat that Munzer (and Dorian) didnt. The new look of the balloony quality muscle, thats IM fat vs. subcutaneous fat. The fat fills in the muscle and makes it takes away that 90's quality. I think this is what Jim is getting at.
-
He is dry as fuck much drier than Coleman, bu if density can only be judged by striations , is a bullshit term and not a separate criteria.
Density/Dryness go hand in hand in the judging criteria if I remember correctly.
-
LOL @ a bodybuilding thread being the hot topic on getbig tonight. ;D
-
I deserve a medal for this :D
Or a smack in the mouth.
-
LOL @ a bodybuilding thread being the hot topic on getbig tonight. ;D
Yeah whoda thought? ;D
-
Yeah whoda thought? ;D
LOL
Outed. :D
You're confusing a smack ( :-* ) with a smack (http://images-partners.google.com/images?q=tbn:_cumA1jACQ4LBM::http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00614/smack_682_614133a.jpg)
-
Now you're just being a bit too kinky, outed x2 :-X
Chaos wants to massage your balls with his hand like that.
-
Imagination outed.
Can I put two fingers in your ass to milk your prostate?
I'll use olive oil for lube.
No homo.
-
:-X :-\
Nevermind Blackfag, he's gayer than having Elton John riding a unicorn across a rainbow tatooed across both buttcheeks.
-
Nevermind Blackfag, he's gayer than having Elton John riding a unicorn across a rainbow tatooed across both buttcheeks.
That ain't what you told me in the bathroom stall last week.
-
Lol
-
We need FatPanda to clarify this.........someone PM him a link to this thread, he's blocked mine. :(
This thread is about "intramuscular fat", not about "somewhere in all the fat there should be some muscles, anywhere, at least i hope so".
-
Density = thicker muscle
Dryness = lack of subcutaneous water
lean = very low bodyfat
shredded = very low bodyfat coupled with lack of sub water
::)
-
So now density = thickness all of a sudden ::)
Fucking useless bullshit pseudoknowledge term
meltdown ;D
-
it's too soon for them to realize i'm a total closet case, i think
Your going to be on a reality TV show?
When is it going to be on TV?
-
So "density" has been an argument ND and co has used against Hulkster for years, this "density" turns out to be the level of "intramuscular fat" you have.
Can someone please explain to me how anyone can see someone elses "intramuscular fat" ?
This term sounds like bullshit, IMO it sounds like just another adjective for someone who is both ripped and really dry.
Density can best be defined as the amount of space between muscular fibers. The smaller the space, the greater the density. The less fat you have between muscle fibers, the more muscle fibers you have in a given volume and the greater the muscular density.
If you are asking me to define by what visual criteria we should evaluate density, then I cannot do it because I cannot describe it using mere words. It is something apparent to the eyes, but hard to define verbally. The best I can do is that a muscle that is dense looks "packed". When a muscle is not dense you can see the individual fibers because there is a big space between them. But when the muscle is dense, you just see a block of muscle and can't see individual fibers. This is the best I can do. Sorry. Language is not descriptive and precise enough to describe visual things. Try asking an artist to describe the beauty of the Mona Lisa. He cannot.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Posted this in the Ronnie thread too.
IMHO - The term Hardness/Density (the way its used in the BB industry) is a way to describe the lack of fat in the muscle itself, that give it that puffy balloon look. Its a completely different term than traditional subcutaneous fat, because that just alows you to see the separation between muscle groups.
Todays competitors get shredded, but for whatever reason (Insulin IMHO), they dont get that super dense rock hard look of the 90's, and that is IM fat, not SC fat. See? Density/Hardness is a term to describe that effect.
In there quest to come in at the highest bodyweight no matter what, or maybe due to too much bulking they wind up not dieting off the fat that accumulates inside the muscle itself. It seems to happen rather quickly (In terms of careers length) now, where as it didnt happen to the old competitors until very late in their career. It seems like the only logical explanation is insulin, as that is the only drug that is well known to have blown up from then to now.
-
Your going to be on a reality TV show?
When is it going to be on TV?
nothing yet amigo
my problem is i'm starting to get some "self worth/self esteem" so I may not need to validate myself by doing a vapid reality show and, instead, focus on getting legitmate acting work
-
Now the english language is not enough to describe it visually!?
You have given the best explanation on "density" till now but still haven't shown me how to see it visually
You see it by the following: the amount of space between fibers. When a bodybuilder contracts the muscle, if you can see the individual fibers, then the muscle is not very dense. If you can see some of the fiibers but not all, then the density is greater. If you can barely see a fiber and the muscle looks like a block with no lines in it(the lines being the separations between fibers), then the muscle is very dense. Dorian Yates, Mentzer, Robby Robinson, Branch Warren, Danny Padilla, Johhny Fuller, are all examples of bodybuilders with great muscular density.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
OK a couple questions
Can you differentiate between
a) person who has no bodyfat and dry
b) person who has no body fat and dry and no intramuscular fat (dense)
How? And please ND don't post that pic of coleman where he is obviously fatter and watery compared to the other.
To me it still sounds bullshit, much like the old "you had to see it, pictures don't show it" kinda thing.
Ronnie 96 Ab n thigh vs Ronnie 98 Ab n Thigh (ND has these pics, I dont). His IM fat is lower, as you can see the feathered striations in his leg. His SC fat and water is higher, as the separation between his muscles is not as clear, but in 98, he is DRY as fuck and shredded, yet his leg striations disappeared, from IM fat.
-
So, would a dirtbag wanna be bodybuilder with more "intra-muscular fat" be less expensive for his bitch boyfriend to support financially?
-
Density is one of those words in bodybuilding that has completely lost its original meaning, like "symmetry" before it
Very true.
YOu left out "muscle maturity" though
-
(http://www.dumbbellsweights.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/bodybuilder-jay-cutler.jpg)
what does density and condition and proportions have to do with bodybuilding?
-
(http://www.dumbbellsweights.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/bodybuilder-jay-cutler.jpg)
what does density and condition and proportions have to do with bodybuilding?
"Do"...
-
Xerxes, I offered you a perfectly good explanation of what density is and how to identify it, but you don't want to listen.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
You see it by the following: the amount of space between fibers. When a bodybuilder contracts the muscle, if you can see the individual fibers, then the muscle is not very dense. If you can see some of the fiibers but not all, then the density is greater. If you can barely see a fiber and the muscle looks like a block with no lines in it(the lines being the separations between fibers), then the muscle is very dense. Dorian Yates, Mentzer, Robby Robinson, Branch Warren, Danny Padilla, Johhny Fuller, are all examples of bodybuilders with great muscular density.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I don't entirely follow. Do you have any pictures that exemplify what you are referring to?
I'm sort of confusing seeing fibers for grainy in my mind, but thats a contradiction so that can't be what you are referencing.
-
I don't entirely follow. Do you have any pictures that exemplify what you are referring to?
I'm sort of confusing seeing fibers for grainy in my mind, but thats a contradiction so that can't be what you are referencing.
When a bodybuilder is dense, you do not see the individual fibers: you see bundles of fibers or if the bodybuilder is really dense you cannot see any lines on the muscle because the lines are the separations between fibers and when the fibers are close to each other the space between them is imperceptible.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
So now density = thickness all of a sudden ::)
Fucking useless bullshit pseudoknowledge term
Density definition:
Having relatively high density; Compact; crowded together; Thick; difficult to penetrate; Opaque; allowing little light to pass through; Obscure, or difficult to understand; Of a person, slow to comprehend; of low intelligence
You guys define the latter part :D :D