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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Danny on January 09, 2011, 06:24:08 PM
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http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/3220146-474/giffords-cannot-tucson-ariz-saturday.html (http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/3220146-474/giffords-cannot-tucson-ariz-saturday.html)
We cannot walk away from this one.
We cannot blame one nutjob for the shooting of 19 people Saturday in Tucson, Ariz., and wash our hands of it.
We cannot pretend that this is only about him and not about us.
Worst of all, we cannot say we were not warned.
For more than two years, sensible people have been pleading with their fellow Americans to tone down the rhetoric, to quit with the demonizing, to end the fear-mongering.
In what kind of country, the sensible people asked, do political leaders across the board not condemn a sign at a rally that reads: “We left our guns at home — this time”?
In what kind of country do people show up at presidential speeches with guns on their hips?
In what kind of a country do callers to radio shows routinely smear those with whom they disagree — beginning with our president — as “traitors” and “un-American,” while pandering hosts say only, “Thanks for the call.”
If we continue this way, the sensible people warned, something will happen.
And now something has happened.
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, was meeting with constituents outside a supermarket Saturday — a “Congress on Your Corner” event — when a young man walked up, aimed a gun at her head and started shooting.
As we wrote this, Giffords was fighting for her life in a Tucson hospital. Six people were dead. Twelve others were wounded.
What drove the killer, who police say might have had an accomplice? Was it the reckless rhetoric of our times? As of yet, we don’t know. Maybe, though improbably, politics had nothing to do with this.
Only in time will we know if the killer was among those who threatened Giffords with physical harm last year when she voted in favor of President Obama’s health-care reforms. We may never know whether he was the one who shattered the windows of her Tucson office. And it’s entirely possible that he was not among those — the many — who threatened her with death after she spoke out against Arizona’s harsh new immigration law.
But would any intelligent person be surprised to learn otherwise?
The safe observation for us to make now — you will hear it from others all week — is that the angry and irresponsible talk that might lead an unhinged person to pick up a gun is common across the political landscape, from right to left.
But that simply is not true.
Overwhelmingly today, the fear-mongering and demonizing flow from the right, aided and abetted by cable TV and talk-radio hosts. They may represent only the irresponsible fringe of conservatism in America, but they are drowning out the thoughtful voices of the vast majority of conservatives.
Giffords, as she showed by meeting constituents outside that supermarket, dared to believe that Americans can disagree with each other without turning on each other.
Maybe that was a mistake.
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lol more idiocy from you and your ilk...
do you condemn obama for his hate speech danny?
how about pelosi?
gracen?
any of the left?
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Was Virgina warned before the V Tech shooter did his act?
How moronic are you people?
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-recor.html?hpid=topnews
Wake up you fool. This guy was a mentally deranged freak show.
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>:(
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>:(
those are targets, not rifle scope crosshairs. dems only use suction cup darts :D
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rifle scope crosshairs...
sweet jeebus... WTF was she thinking? Let's give tingles to the gun nuts? Fvck. I carry and own more guns than 90% of the "conservatives" on this place (33 has tons more, of course).... so they can suck me if they wanna try calling rank on gun rights....
but that Crosshairs with "reload, not retreat".... and KEEPING it up after it was criticized... that was just an asinine decision. Just plain stupid. I look at potential candidates like Newt, Mitt, Thune... they just don't seem to do boneheaded shit like that.
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rifle scope crosshairs...
sweet jeebus... WTF was she thinking? Let's give tingles to the gun nuts? Fvck. I carry and own more guns than 90% of the "conservatives" on this place (33 has tons more, of course).... so they can suck me if they wanna try calling rank on gun rights....
but that Crosshairs with "reload, not retreat".... and KEEPING it up after it was criticized... that was just an asinine decision. Just plain stupid. I look at potential candidates like Newt, Mitt, Thune... they just don't seem to do boneheaded shit like that.
Question is why did she have the chart taken down right after the shooting...I thought those were only surveyor's symbol... ;) so there should not have been any problem there.
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Democrats gave us the first warning signs for sure.
2004:
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/BerzerkFury23/DLC-Targeting-map1.gif)
2009:
(http://american-conservativevalues.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/palin-graphic.jpg)
Eerily similar. Of course I don't expect the gestapo-fleeing leftists like Danny to admit that.
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lol more idiocy from you and your ilk...
do you condemn obama for his hate speech danny?
how about pelosi?
gracen?
any of the left?
bump for an answer danny...
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Dems shouldn't have put that up.
Your palin example left off the 20 NAMES she included on her list. BIG diff there dude.
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bump for an answer danny...
let me be as clear as I can. I don't give a shit if your a leftist or rightist. Instigating violence against government or politicians is not acceptable in society like ours.
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let me be as clear as I can. I don't give a shit if your a leftist or rightist. Instigating violence against government or politicians is not acceptable in society like ours.
would be great if you guys actually came out against all of it then, instead of posting articles just condemning palin...
havent seen one article condemning obama yet, any of you guys?
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"Surveor's (transit) crosshairs????" Of all the galldurn BS. They really gotta be kidding if they think any intelligent, sentient lifeform could believe that crapitola. Since when do surveyors "fire" "vollies", "salvos or "lock and load" and worry about "retreating?"
(from RS)
I sure haven't seen any pics of Palin posing with surveyor tools. Nor was this surveyor angle ever mentioned when the ad took heavy criticism a few months back.
it's a very thin lie, and it should embarass us all to have heard it. I think some here may defend palin, which is fine - but I'd love to hear ANY getbigger say he/she truly believes palin was talking about surveying.
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Democrats gave us the first warning signs for sure.
2004:
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/BerzerkFury23/DLC-Targeting-map1.gif)
2009:
(http://american-conservativevalues.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/palin-graphic.jpg)
Eerily similar. Of course I don't expect the gestapo-fleeing leftists like Danny to admit that.
::)
Congresswoman Gifford was Jewish...shooter didn't care for Jews.
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were there any NAMES of people on Bush's list? No.
Were there 20 people on Palin's list? Yes?
Sad. FOX cut away from vigil coverage when palin's name came up. Un-be-fvcking-lievable.
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were there any NAMES of people on Bush's list? No.
Were there 20 people on Palin's list? Yes?
Sad. FOX cut away from vigil coverage when palin's name came up. Un-be-fvcking-lievable.
Palin: "don't retreat, instead- RELOAD!"
Jesse Kelly (Gifford's tea party opponent): "Get on target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."
Michael Savage: "Only vigilance and resistance to this baby dictator, Barack Hussein Obama, can prevent the Khmer Rouge from appearing in this country"
Erick Ericksson: "At what point do the people ... march down to their state legislator's house, pull him outside, and beat him to a bloody pulp?"
Sharron Angel: "If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies."
Joyce Kaufman: "If ballots don't work, bullets will."
Michelle Bachmann: "Be armed and dangerous"
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::)
Congresswoman Gifford was Jewish...shooter didn't care for Jews.
The shooter worked for her campaign.....twice.
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would be great if you guys actually came out against all of it then, instead of posting articles just condemning palin...
havent seen one article condemning obama yet, any of you guys?
bump from an answer from any of you guys
in the light of this shooting and the condemnation that has taken place has anyone seen an article condemning obama for his own involvment?
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The shooter worked for her campaign.....twice.
And then shot her in the head.
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The shooter worked for her campaign.....twice.
i wonder if that was before or after he read mein kampf and added it to his favored book list?
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Palin: "don't retreat, instead- RELOAD!"
Palin also called for illegal retaliation against Julian Assange
And she called for the illegal kidnapping of Wikileaks people.
I guess I don't understand why Palin pulled the Surveyor's map from her website immediately after the shooting.
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i wonder if that was before or after he read mein kampf and added it to his favored book list?
I wonder if it has anything to do with her voting against Pelosi's election as minority leader less than a month ago. This guy reeks of scorned liberal who went after his moderate congressman because she wasn't liberal enough.
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Don't forget Tom Perriello, another of Sarah's "targets."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34934.html
"Law enforcement authorities are investigating the discovery of a cut propane gas line at the Virginia home of Rep. Thomas Perriello’s (D-Va.) brother, whose address was targeted by tea party activists angry at the congressman’s vote for the health care bill.
An aide to the congressman confirmed to POLITICO that a line to a propane tank behind his brother's home near Charlottesville had been sliced. "
"POLITICO reported on Monday that Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, posted on his blog what he thought was the congressman’s address, encouraging tea party activists to “drop by.”"
This was the guy who's supposed home address was posted on the website of some local teabagger nut, but it turned out to be his brother's.
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http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/3220146-474/giffords-cannot-tucson-ariz-saturday.html (http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/3220146-474/giffords-cannot-tucson-ariz-saturday.html)
We cannot walk away from this one.
We cannot blame one nutjob for the shooting of 19 people Saturday in Tucson, Ariz., and wash our hands of it.
We cannot pretend that this is only about him and not about us.
Worst of all, we cannot say we were not warned.
For more than two years, sensible people have been pleading with their fellow Americans to tone down the rhetoric, to quit with the demonizing, to end the fear-mongering.
In what kind of country, the sensible people asked, do political leaders across the board not condemn a sign at a rally that reads: “We left our guns at home — this time”?
In what kind of country do people show up at presidential speeches with guns on their hips?
In what kind of a country do callers to radio shows routinely smear those with whom they disagree — beginning with our president — as “traitors” and “un-American,” while pandering hosts say only, “Thanks for the call.”
If we continue this way, the sensible people warned, something will happen.
And now something has happened.
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, was meeting with constituents outside a supermarket Saturday — a “Congress on Your Corner” event — when a young man walked up, aimed a gun at her head and started shooting.
As we wrote this, Giffords was fighting for her life in a Tucson hospital. Six people were dead. Twelve others were wounded.
What drove the killer, who police say might have had an accomplice? Was it the reckless rhetoric of our times? As of yet, we don’t know. Maybe, though improbably, politics had nothing to do with this.
Only in time will we know if the killer was among those who threatened Giffords with physical harm last year when she voted in favor of President Obama’s health-care reforms. We may never know whether he was the one who shattered the windows of her Tucson office. And it’s entirely possible that he was not among those — the many — who threatened her with death after she spoke out against Arizona’s harsh new immigration law.
But would any intelligent person be surprised to learn otherwise?
The safe observation for us to make now — you will hear it from others all week — is that the angry and irresponsible talk that might lead an unhinged person to pick up a gun is common across the political landscape, from right to left.
But that simply is not true.
Overwhelmingly today, the fear-mongering and demonizing flow from the right, aided and abetted by cable TV and talk-radio hosts. They may represent only the irresponsible fringe of conservatism in America, but they are drowning out the thoughtful voices of the vast majority of conservatives.
Giffords, as she showed by meeting constituents outside that supermarket, dared to believe that Americans can disagree with each other without turning on each other.
Maybe that was a mistake.
The person who wrote that drivel is atleast half way as sick as the shooter.
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I wonder if it has anything to do with her voting against Pelosi's election as minority leader less than a month ago. This guy reeks of scorned liberal who went after his moderate congressman because she wasn't liberal enough.
Reeks of "Jew-hating anti government Tea Bagging sympathizer" if you ask me.
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Reeks of "Jew-hating anti government Tea Bagging sympathizer" if you ask me.
I've yet to see any anti-semitic writings of this guy. The only thing they've got to go on is Mein Kampf. And he didn't belong to that group people were saying he was a member of.
Working to get this woman reelected twice and then trying to kill her years later for being a Jew? Makes no sense.
Being a disgruntled far-left extremist who is upset that his congressman isn't swinging back center so he decides to kill her? Makes much more sense.
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bump from an answer from any of you guys
in the light of this shooting and the condemnation that has taken place has anyone seen an article condemning obama for his own involvment?
this maniac hates government. please tell me who advocates to take down government, be armed and dangerous and so on..... Obama, Biden, Pelosi? :P
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I guess I don't understand why Palin pulled the Surveyor's map from her website immediately after the shooting.
Imagine Caribou Barbie defending that fucked up map after this horrendous tragedy. ::) Pulled for fear of guilt-by-association, methinks.
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Rep. Bob Filner (D) blames right-wing media for Giffords shooting
Congressman Bob Filner (D-San Diego) issued a press statement remembering his fallen colleague. “Gabby Giffords is a good legislator and a good friend. We work closely together as U.S./Mexico border Congressmembers. We pray for her full recovery."
Filner faulted incendiary talk radio programming as contributing to a climate that may have encouraged today's violence. "I cannot help but believe that the violent context of the recent election is responsible for this tragedy," he said. "Many of us were physically threatened by those who believed they were “right” and we were “wrong” – we were “enemies,” rather than sincere people with different opinions. Their incendiary talk – given legitimacy by equally incendiary talk shows – make violence an acceptable political tactic. Violence as acceptable – bolstered by easy access to guns – made this tragedy almost inevitable. Let us all resolve to recommit ourselves to what is truly exceptional about America – that we conduct our politics with debate and respect, not violence.”
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bump from an answer from any of you guys
in the light of this shooting and the condemnation that has taken place has anyone seen an article condemning obama for his own involvment?
BUMP!!!!!!!!!!
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I've yet to see any anti-semitic writings of this guy. The only thing they've got to go on is Mein Kampf. And he didn't belong to that group people were saying he was a member of.
Working to get this woman reelected twice and then trying to kill her years later for being a Jew? Makes no sense.
Being a disgruntled far-left extremist who is upset that his congressman isn't swinging back center so he decides to kill her? Makes much more sense.
Mein Kampf and the attempted murder of the state's first Jewish congresswoman is not a good look, bro. :-\
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Mein Kampf and the attempted murder of the state's first Jewish congresswoman is not a good look, bro. :-\
You're using Mein Kampf to argue the anti-semite angle yet trying to also argue the tea-party right-wing angle when The Communist Manifesto and other pro-socialism/communism books were in his favorites list.
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this maniac hates government. please tell me who advocates to take down government, be armed and dangerous and so on..... Obama, Biden, Pelosi? :P
LOL whats that got to do with the toxic political enviroment?
you said you wanted it all to stop, didnt you?
well do you think that obama calling reps the "enemy" and terrorist/hostage takers is not contributing to the toxic political enviroment?
pelosi saying tea party members should wear swastikas?
gracen saying reps want you to die and die quickly?
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BUMP!!!!!!!!!!
Why are you fishing for an answer to a question that nobody gives a shit about, fucktard? Use google your damn self and create a thread. NOBODY else cares or sees a correlation.
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Why are you fishing for an answer to a question that nobody gives a shit about, fucktard? Use google your damn self and create a thread. NOBODY else cares or sees a correlation.
hahahahhahah nice response there benny, sounds about right for an emotional liberal ;)
guess you dont have a problem with the toxic enviroment?
if you do then you should be appalled that nobody has condemned obama, pelosi, gracen
that is unless you just want to condemn palin like others seem to want to do...
but i know youre not that biased right?
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3333 posted something that had a time frame for when he started getting pissed at her but I can't find it now? Something about feeling butthurt or rejected. Maybe he was pissed at her while he was working for her lol... he is crazy.
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You're using Mein Kampf to argue the anti-semite angle yet trying to also argue the tea-party right-wing angle when The Communist Manifesto and other pro-socialism/communism books were in his favorites list.
I'm just sayin'...FIRST Jewish congresswoman and this happens? :-\ Your lack of concern for the anti-semetic potential angle on this is disturbing, considering that is your people.
Obviously, shooter is a wing nut who probably doesn't even fully understand the motivations for his actions.
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3333 posted something that had a time frame for when he started getting pissed at her but I can't find it now? Something about feeling butthurt or rejected. Maybe he was pissed at her while he was working for her lol... he is crazy.
yea i think i saw something like that, he had a thank you letter from her from over 2 years ago in the safe with his letter saying he planned this...does seem pretty odd
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I'm just sayin'...FIRST Jewish congresswoman and this happens? :-\ Your lack of concern for the anti-semetic potential angle on this is disturbing, considering that is your people.
Obviously, shooter is a wing nut who probably doesn't even fully understand the motivations for his actions.
Why would I be concerned? I don't get upset when someone with the same European blood as me or a Protestant gets hurt. ::)
I've yet to see one anti-semitic writing of this guy. And that anti-semitic group he supposedly belonged to turned out to be false. If he's anti-semitic because of Mein Kampf being in his favorites list then he's also a far-left nutcase because of The Communist Manifesto and the other left-wing books in his list.
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hahahahhahah nice response there benny, sounds about right for an emotional liberal ;)
guess you dont have a problem with the toxic enviroment?
if you do then you should be appalled that nobody has condemned obama, pelosi, gracen
that is unless you just want to condemn palin like others seem to want to do...
but i know youre not that biased right?
Makes no sense whatsoever...as usual. :-\
Another "swing and a miss" from "TonyMcNuts!"
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LOL whats that got to do with the toxic political enviroment?
you said you wanted it all to stop, didnt you?
well do you think that obama calling reps the "enemy" and terrorist/hostage takers is not contributing to the toxic political enviroment?
pelosi saying tea party members should wear swastikas?
gracen saying reps want you to die and die quickly?
of course it does not help. does it inflame the situation as much as words like "retreat and reload" or " I want people armed and dangerous" or "shoot and M-16 with such and such"?? .....not sure.
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Why would I be concerned? I don't get upset when someone with the same European blood as me gets hurt. ::)
Hypothetically...if a group started systematically murdering high profile Jews, that would not disturb you or make you "upset"? Just curious...you give the appearance of one who'd deny he was Jewish before speaking out against a group of ethnic related killings.
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Hypothetically...if a group started systematically murdering high profile Jews, that would not disturb you or make you "upset"? Just curious...you give the appearance of one who'd deny he was Jewish before speaking out against a group of ethnic related killings.
::)
I've never denied it. It makes up part of my blood. Just like my Scottish, Swiss, Italian, Hungarian and Russian ancestry makes up the other 7/8 of it. I'm a mutt so why would one part of me take precedent, especially when the Hungarian and Italian blood makes me up the bulk of my heritage?
Try calling yourself American sometime. I know a racist bigot like yourself might struggle to do that, though, given your contempt and loathing of whites, Jews and Christians.
I forgot how pointless arguing with you was. You're not actually capable of discussing the topic without attacking the person. Just like you're now conveniently ignoring my point that if he's an anti-semite because of Mein Kampf then he's also a far-left commie because of the Manifesto. :)
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of course it does not help. does it inflame the situation as much as words like "retreat and reload" or " I want people armed and dangerous" or "shoot and M-16 with such and such"?? .....not sure.
lol well seeing as you agree that is is bad and doesnt help
dont you think as a person or society that condemns actions such as those that the articles and posts would condemn actions from both sides?
have you seen any articles since the shooting that condemn the toxic political enviroment that mention obama, pelosi, gracen etc... or just ones that mention palin?
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lol well seeing as you agree that is is bad and doesnt help
dont you think as a person or society that condemns actions such as those that the articles and posts would condemn actions from both sides?
have you seen any articles since the shooting that condemn the toxic political enviroment that mention obama, pelosi, gracen etc... or just ones that mention palin?
I am reading plenty of articles talking about the vitriolic rhetoric on both sides. Nobody said this is only a direct result of Palin's facebook posts or tweets.
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::)
I've never denied it. It makes up part of my blood. Just like my Scottish, Swiss, Italian, Hungarian and Russian ancestry makes up the other 7/8 of it. I'm a mutt so why would one part of me take precedent, especially when the Hungarian and Italian blood makes me up the bulk of my heritage?
Try calling yourself American sometime. I know a racist bigot like yourself might struggle to do that, though, given your contempt and loathing of whites, Jews and Christians.
I forgot how pointless arguing with you was. You're not actually capable of discussing the topic without attacking the person. Just like you're now conveniently ignoring my point that if he's an anti-semite because of Mein Kampf then he's also a far-left commie because of the Manifesto. :)
LOL
I've never called myself anything else other than "American", you self-hating JEW.
1/8 my hairy nuts. ::)
Oh, by the way...
(http://www.rarst.net/images/Areyoupreparedforcomputermeltdown_10B23/meltdown.jpg)
;D
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I am reading plenty of articles talking about the vitriolic rhetoric on both sides. Nobody said this is only a direct result of Palin's facebook posts or tweets.
please do link some of those articles for us, i havent seen one that has condemned obama, pelosi, gracen etc...
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Meltdown for explaining myself? Nice try. But I can see you're getting angry. You're a bitter bigot with massive self-worth issues most likely stemming from your skin color. You're so angry at the world that you even attack your black brothers on here (you have a hard-on for Wiggs) for not being black enough. ::)
I think you've actually managed to call every black person on here an "uncle tom" or some other derogatory black insult over the years here. Definitely a bigoted racist...and from the left, nonetheless. :D
Time to go back to ignoring your posts again.
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WOW. Looks like the left in Britain are twice as stupid as the moronic organisms on the left side of the ideological spectrum.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-rightwing-rhetoric
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You people are really very sad. You should grow a brain. People have been shot and all you do is argue with side left/right is to blame.
Why not concentrate on fixing the issues instead of always focusing on what side of the political spectrum the assaillant came from?
No wonder this country is going to shit.
Come with some intelligent solutions/opinions and stick your left/right wing rhetoric up your retarded asses.
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::) ::)
Many us us had to turn off the TV because of the overwhelmingly lopsided TV coverage blaming the Tea Party, Palin, etc, when in fact the the truth i that this is a deranged nut who was wrapped up in CT's and drugs.
There is nothing to "fix" at all. Shit like this is going to happen. Its history, whether its Ceasaer getting killed in the Forum, Hinkley, Sirhan Sirhan, JW Boothe, LHO, etc.
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Obama is a white supremacist! He will divorce his wife because she is a @#$% lover! [1]
Sources and References:
1. loco
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::) ::)
Many us us had to turn off the TV because of the overwhelmingly lopsided TV coverage blaming the Tea Party, Palin, etc, when in fact the the truth i that this is a deranged nut who was wrapped up in CT's and drugs.
There is nothing to "fix" at all. Shit like this is going to happen. Its history, whether its Ceasaer getting killed in the Forum, Hinkley, Sirhan Sirhan, JW Boothe, LHO, etc.
Really? FOX too? Seriously i see a point for the politicians to tone down their rhetoric. However the actions of this piece of shit is his actions you cant blame the Tea Party or Palin for this
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please do link some of those articles for us, i havent seen one that has condemned obama, pelosi, gracen etc...
still waiting for those articles to be linked condemning obama, pelosi, gracen etc..danny
or anyone for that matter that is against all rhetoric that they feel could incite violence
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Obama is a white supremacist! He will divorce his wife because she is a @#$% lover! [1]
Sources and References:
1. loco
lol :)
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You people are really very sad. You should grow a brain. People have been shot and all you do is argue with side left/right is to blame.
Why not concentrate on fixing the issues instead of always focusing on what side of the political spectrum the assaillant came from?
No wonder this country is going to shit.
Come with some intelligent solutions/opinions and stick your left/right wing rhetoric up your retarded asses.
You need to do your homework bro. Listen around. Do you hear anyone from the right blaming the left wing ideology for this killing even though the initial evidence coming out indicated he is a liberal? It is the left that is accusing Sarah Palin of "hatred" even though there is no evidence to support it. When that environmentalist wacko killed those people at the Discovery Channel Offices, there were no significant ammount of commentarors on the right whatsover that blamed the left. He was just a sick individual, just like this guy was. It is the left wing that is politicising this event, because politics is a religion for the left. Politics is NOT a religion for the right. But when the LEFT slanders the right like this, the right has to respond IMMEDIATELY or the slander will stick. I know you think you are being openminded because you are independent, but I challenge you to consider what I said. THe apathy that you showed in your post is what the left thrives on.
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Why does it always have to be right vs. left?
We have a shooting and we have a political environment were people like Palin who in her campaign said Obama is conspirering with terrorist and talks about reloading, taking america back, have pics with crosshairs on her website etc. This is just stupid.
Especially since if Palin really believed this why havent she killed Obama herself if she is so patriotic and Obama is Hitler? Because it aint true, Sarah knows its not true so she is spewing lies that help her get votes/media time/support etc but is hurtfull to the country.
What do you call a person who brings americans lives in danger based on lies to promote his/her self?
I dont know but i dont like it and it has nothing to do with left/right its about not selling people a bag of lies that can even result in injury or death to others