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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: cephissus on January 11, 2011, 07:05:30 PM
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I'll define overtraining as "getting weaker because of too much training," whether from too much volume, weight, or attempting to train on too little food, etc.
Every time this topic comes up it seems like people fall into two camps. On one hand, you have the guys who say "yeah overtraining is real but don't worry about it, it's something that only happens to serious hardcore athletes that work out a million times harder than you." The guys saying this, in my experience, are usually pretty big and hormonized.
On the other hand, you have guys saying "overtraining is a huge problem and if you want to be anything as a bodybuilder, you have to be very careful about balancing workload and recovery." Usually these guys seem to be naturals and/or proponents of HIT, or high frequency / low volume styles. One person who says this (not natural, I know) is Dante -- he insists overtraining is the number one problem with bodybuilders.
As an aside, I currently lift 3 times a week in an attempt to maintain while i diet down, and have been doing upper / lower mwf style, feeling pretty run down. I'm thinking about switching back to once a week, three way (still mwf), more traditional bb style routine to see if I can bounce back.
Is overtraining a serious issue, an epidemic, or a nonissue for the average gym rat?
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Both people are lying to the other, and both people are telling the truth to other person. Each person has a different threshold when it comes to the amount of training they can get away with.
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When I "overtrain" and hit each muscle twice a week I usually get great results.
In some ways I think overtraining is a myth. As long as your muscle is recovered for the next workout you should be cool. And I think muscle recovery usually only takes 3 or 4 days at the most.
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If someone screwed a bomb to your head and told you you have 30 days to gain 10 pounds of muscle or you die, I guaran-fucking-tee you would be over training like a mother fucker and making great progess.
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When I "overtrain" and hit each muscle twice a week I usually get great results.
In some ways I think overtraining is a myth. As long as your muscle is recovered for the next workout you should be cool. And I think muscle recovery usually only takes 3 or 4 days at the most.
How do you know when a muscle is recovered? When it's not sore anymore?
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If someone screwed a bomb to your head and told you you have 30 days to gain 10 pounds of muscle or you die, I guaran-fucking-tee you would be over training like a mother fucker and making great progess.
Haha I would just kill myself.
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How do you know when a muscle is recovered? When it's not sore anymore?
Yeah, no more soreness, and also when you gain back full strength or increased strength. Pushing out a few reps and seeing how it feels and how your power is is usually a good measure of if the muscle is recovered. For me it usually only takes about 4 days of recovery and i'm ready to push that muscle 100% again.
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I think whatever fatpanda thinks :D
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I've discussed this before and i dont realy believe in "overtraing". Qoute marks because I DO believe in under recuperating.
Theres a big difference.
I also believe if you can train for 6 hours strieght, you are just spreading your energy over a greater time scale. So still not over training.
If you train for one hour and cant move a 10 pound wieght, you have kept your energy expenditue short but intense. STILL, NOT OVER TRAINING.
I do believe if you come back in tomorrow, and hit the same body part just as hard, or try to, you are under recuperating. Again big difference. ;)
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I think whatever fatpanda thinks :D
Which is:
http://tinyurl.com/48zb2lx
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no such thing as overtraining...
it's a myth created by people who want you to do their method of training (by training a total of 9 minutes a week), eat a shit ton of food....... oh... and ... although it's not important, but you should double or triple your total mgs.... then when you get bigger they say "SEE!!! YOU WERE OVERTRAINING AND UNDEREATING!!!! now pay me more money to train you or buy more of my product"...
lots of gear + training like a maniac + being smart with your food = result you want
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Which is:
http://tinyurl.com/48zb2lx
;D
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Fatpanda said, along with the energy systems, overtraining is a fairytale.
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if it's sore don't train it
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Mmmm, buselmo, overtraining isn't a "myth".
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Some guy once said "durf durf durf there's no such thing as overtraining only under-eating" but he was probably on a lot of droogs.
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Maybe if we're lucky Vince Goodrum can chime in on this issue.
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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if it's sore don't train it
Not true.
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Yeah, no more soreness, and also when you gain back full strength or increased strength. Pushing out a few reps and seeing how it feels and how your power is is usually a good measure of if the muscle is recovered. For me it usually only takes about 4 days of recovery and i'm ready to push that muscle 100% again.
Then why are you a tiny little piece of shit that looks like he never lifted a weight in his life ?
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the most common error people make :: overtraining and undertraining at the same time.
they do way too many sets, with too little rest n between, going to failure to often. but never actually lifting heavy. always repping out light to moderate weight, never increasing poundages, always "burning out" in the gym with drop sets. usually do one muscle per day once per week.
^^^^ maybe some guys with great genetics and great response to juice whove been lean and aesthetic their whole lives could get away with training like that, but for most guys its a recipe for no or extremely slow progress after a couple years of doing it (if their lucky)
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the most common error people make :: overtraining and undertraining at the same time.
they do way too many sets, with too little rest n between, going to failure to often. but never actually lifting heavy. always repping out light to moderate weight, never increasing poundages, always "burning out" in the gym with drop sets. usually do one muscle per day once per week.
^^^^ maybe some guys with great genetics and great response to juice whove been lean and aesthetic their whole lives could get away with training like that, but for most guys its a recipe for no or extremely slow progress after a couple years of doing it (if their lucky)
Agreed......the more i read about people's "protocols" on this site i come to the conclusion that the vast majority here have no fucking clue how to train properly....that's why they are little whiny shitheads and accuse anyone who carries some muscle of gearing up
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I'll define overtraining as "getting weaker because of too much training,"
and tht is the perfect way to know if your training properly or not.
are you stronger than your previous workout? if not, your doing something wrong. either too much or too little of something. total sets, rest between sets, rest between workouts, food, ect. most of the time its too many sets, too little rest between sets, too long between workouts.
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Agreed......the more i read about people's "protocols" on this site i come to the conclusion that the vast majority here have no fucking clue how to train properly....that's why they are little whiny shitheads and accuse anyone who carries some muscle of gearing up
the sad part is they wont listen, theyll continue struglling untill, if, they find out on their own. it seems everybody always has to learn the hard way :-\
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the sad part is they wont listen, theyll continue struglling untill, if, they find out on their own. it seems everybody always has to learn the hard way :-\
LOL, aren't you the little bitch that started steroids the moment he entered a gym??
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Overtraining is not so much a direct result of amount of sleep/food proportional to the amount of training intensity, rather overtraining is about the amount/intensity one applies proportional to what that particular persons body has been accustomed to handle.
This means that the more he has listened to his body the less likely they will have overtrained. The longer and smarter somebody has trained the more their bodies will be able to handle due to the accustomed stress their bodies have learnt to adapt to.
of course, without enough knowledge and listening to ones body regarding food choices and sleep amounts, a body can become overtrained, however advanced trainers know when and what their body requires, and increase workloads at slow paces.
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if it's sore don't train beat it
overbating
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and tht is the perfect way to know if your training properly or not.
are you stronger than your previous workout? if not, your doing something wrong. either too much or too little of something. total sets, rest between sets, rest between workouts, food, ect. most of the time its too many sets, too little rest between sets, too long between workouts.
Come on bro. If we were stronger every workout we'd all be benching 500. MOST people on here workout and MOST people are not stronger every workout.
Does that mean they haven't learned your super cool way to train? Or is it possible that people don't get stronger every fucking workout?
I guarn-fucking-tee 10 months from now you'll be training totally differently and you'll shock us all with your NEW way to train, a secret in plain sight that we were all too dumb to see.
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The longer and smarter somebody has trained the more their bodies will be able to handle due to the accustomed stress their bodies have learnt to adapt to.
of course, without enough knowledge and listening to ones body regarding food choices and sleep amounts, a body can become overtrained, however advanced trainers know when and what their body requires, and increase workloads at slow paces.
I agree! I think the most important thing in bodybuilding is to follow your instincts, and learn what your feelings mean.
I always felt like the best way to train was to blast the muscle as much as possible, aiming for huge soreness, then let the muscle recover until there was no more soreness, and do it again. It seems like no matter how hard I hit a muscle, I could never get it sore for more than about 3 days (legs a little longer), so I would always aim to hit each muscle twice a week.
This worked great for a couple months when I first started eating enough to actually grow, and then about three months later I changed everything for a really stupid reason and ever since I haven't been able to get consistent growth, or even much growth at all.
This period of growth was about 3-4 years ago and these days things just don't seem to work the same. I'll have a great workout, huge pump, decent soreness (never like in the old days though), lift a lot of weight, come back a couple days later when the muscle isn't sore anymore and, like magic, boom, the muscle doesn't do anything. Feels completely dead. Felt fine going into the workout, but it doesn't want to cooperate and I just end up with joint pain, no pump, no soreness, and no weight lifted.
I'm starting to think my body has just changed somehow (maybe hormone levels?) and my life is a lot more stressful now so maybe that has something to do with it... so I decided to cut back the frequency to once a week to see if I just need more time to recover (even though the muscle feels fine going into the workout :-\).
Though I will say, even though the muscle often feels fine before a crappy workout, usually when I wake up I have an ominous feeling that I shouldn't lift, that my body isn't ready. I wake up and the first thought is "I can't deadlift today..." but then thirty minutes later I feel fine so I just sort of ignore it. This is another reason I'm cutting back -- I'm going to try to actually obey this instinct for once.
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Come on bro. If we were stronger every workout we'd all be benching 500. MOST people on here workout and MOST people are not stronger every workout.
Does that mean they haven't learned your super cool way to train? Or is it possible that people don't get stronger every fucking workout?
I guarn-fucking-tee 10 months from now you'll be training totally differently and you'll shock us all with your NEW way to train, a secret in plain sight that we were all too dumb to see.
Maybe he will get legit gear one day and not some watered down UG lab salad oil, then he will tell us how he got stronger in 2 weeks.
Are there any people left on this board that actually train and have normal results??
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I agree! I think the most important thing in bodybuilding is to follow your instincts, and learn what your feelings mean.
I always felt like the best way to train was to blast the muscle as much as possible, aiming for huge soreness, then let the muscle recover until there was no more soreness, and do it again. It seems like no matter how hard I hit a muscle, I could never get it sore for more than about 3 days (legs a little longer), so I would always aim to hit each muscle twice a week.
This worked great for a couple months when I first started eating enough to actually grow, and then about three months later I changed everything for a really stupid reason and ever since I haven't been able to get consistent growth, or even much growth at all.
This period of growth was about 3-4 years ago and these days things just don't seem to work the same. I'll have a great workout, huge pump, decent soreness (never like in the old days though), lift a lot of weight, come back a couple days later when the muscle isn't sore anymore and, like magic, boom, the muscle doesn't do anything. Feels completely dead. Felt fine going into the workout, but it doesn't want to cooperate and I just end up with joint pain, no pump, no soreness, and no weight lifted.
I'm starting to think my body has just changed somehow (maybe hormone levels?) and my life is a lot more stressful now so maybe that has something to do with it... so I decided to cut back the frequency to once a week to see if I just need more time to recover (even though the muscle feels fine going into the workout :-\).
Though I will say, even though the muscle often feels fine before a crappy workout, usually when I wake up I have an ominous feeling that I shouldn't lift, that my body isn't ready. I wake up and the first thought is "I can't deadlift today..." but then thirty minutes later I feel fine so I just sort of ignore it. This is another reason I'm cutting back -- I'm going to try to actually obey this instinct for once.
Yet every time you meet a "successful" bodybuilder, he will say that he has NEVER missed a workout in his life.
Fuck overtraining, just get into the gym and train. Make sure you get enough sleep, the right food and you will be fine.
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Then why are you a tiny little piece of shit that looks like he never lifted a weight in his life ?
Because I don't do steroids.
If you came off the gear you would definitely be the same size as me.
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Because I don't do steroids.
If you came off the gear you would definitely be the same size as me.
I was bigger than you when I was a teenager, much bigger....you have the genetics of a 12 year old girl.
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I trained my arms 2 days in a row this week.
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I trained my arms 2 days in a row this week.
PIP
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I was bigger than you when I was a teenager, much bigger....you have the genetics of a 12 year old girl.
Bull fucking shit.
Without your gear you would be 160-170 with a swimmers build.
I saw that gay ass picture of you with spiky hair. You are all drugs. And you are a fucking guido.
Anyway, I don't care about being "big". I wouldn't want to weigh over 200. I just want a decent healthy build, but be able to look lean and trim in a suit.
These past couple weeks I havn't given a shit about my body at all actually. Sometimes you just gotta take a break from the bodybuilding shit.
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These past couple weeks I havn't given a shit about my body at all actually. Sometimes you just gotta take a break from the bodybuilding shit.
LOL.. I go months at a time without touching a weight at all. Its good for the body.
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Bull fucking shit.
Without your gear you would be 160-170 with a swimmers build.
I saw that gay ass picture of you with spiky hair. You are all drugs. And you are a fucking guido.
Anyway, I don't care about being "big". I wouldn't want to weigh over 200. I just want a decent healthy build, but be able to look lean and trim in a suit.
These past couple weeks I havn't given a shit about my body at all actually. Sometimes you just gotta take a break from the bodybuilding shit.
No break required!!! The sport of bodybuilding is a lifestyle, a state of mind that needs nurturing everyday. Roy would commend this statement!!
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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No break required!!! The sport of bodybuilding is a lifestyle, a state of mind that needs nurturing everyday. Roy would commend this statement!!
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spot on, but it's cult, not a lifestyle. ;D ;D
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When vacation is finished i'll go back to pumping up my spectacular muscles 4x per week again.
Don't worry fans. I'll still be just as ripped and striated as always.
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Overtraining is a serious chronic condition that requires medical attention. No-one wants that. But there are multiple recognizable states before that, like overreaching. When people talk about overtraining they usually mean overreaching. Every athlete overreaches. Lets leave it at that.
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I go to the gym and lift until i get bored.
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I go to the gym and lift until i get bored.
LOL. Shoot for that boredom zero-point horizon.
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Yes there is overtraining, but there is also undertraining. I'm convinced that muscle growth occurs in "spurts" and whenever these "growth spurts" are happening you MUST take advantage of the situation by training more frequently. For example, I train each muscle group once every 6 to 8 days, but at the moment my push muscles are in a growth sprut phase, so I am trainining then every 48 hours and they are getting stronger each and every workout ;D My dips have gone from bodyweight plus 20 added pounds for 6 reps to bodyweight plus 80 added pounds for 7 reps in 12 days
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theres only undereating and improper assimilation due to too much meat filling up the digestive track and not being shitted out as quickly as plant foods thus slowing the digestive assimilation flow causing lower blood sugar wich=less motivation or feeling of run down causing acid reflux too at times,
the brain needs glucose not protien
glucogenesis taxes the body as well and is innefiecient for faster metabolism
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there is not overtraining but there certainly is fatigue thats why carbs are so important
they hold water , protien does not
your muscles need water and glucose and glucose to keep the muscles hydrated, dehydration=muscle weakness no matter how much protien you take in
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If someone screwed a bomb to your head and told you you have 30 days to gain 10 pounds of muscle or you die, I guaran-fucking-tee you would be over training like a mother fucker and making great progess.
You would be highly motivated for those 30 days. I think the main reason low frequency workouts are effective is motivation. When you're in the gym every day, it's a mental drain. Lifting with purpose is greater than just being there.
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if you spend at times 5 minutes between sets you might as well workout at home with a dumbell
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Hey DK, would you like to have a training session wit me and Falcon? I will push you so hard during your training that you will nearly pass out, but Falcon will come to assist you and give you the energy dat you need to make it through da workout wit his fruit juice ::) ROFL!
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If someone screwed a bomb to your head and told you you have 30 days to gain 10 pounds of muscle or you die, I guaran-fucking-tee you would be over training like a mother fucker and making great progess.
Epic movie a la SAW in the making
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Never experienced it. I didn't experience it when i was eating a slice of toast and 2 litres of milk a day, and training same bodypart three times a week, Heavy, Rep to failure and i don't experience it now. Is this the most effective way to train? Probably not, but overtraining is generally pushed by guys that don't actually like training or with very bad genetics.
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Never experienced it. I didn't experience it when i was eating a slice of toast and 2 litres of milk a day, and training same bodypart three times a week, Heavy, Rep to failure and i don't experience it now. Is this the most effective way to train? Probably not, but overtraining is generally pushed by guys that don't actually like training or with very bad genetics.
Read my post, get yourself sorted.
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Fatpanda said, along with the energy systems, overtraining is a fairytale.
LOL, he trains 15 minutes twice a week, of course overtraining is a myth for him :D
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The only thing that is obvious is most of you are undertraining their brains while they re focusing on training/overtraining their "muscles".
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The only thing that is obvious is most of you are undertraining their brains while they re focusing on training/overtraining their "muscles".
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LKUOLCOoMmU/S8n1cAC2_qI/AAAAAAAAAV8/PEyY-WgwtwA/s1600/attention-whore3.jpg)
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Bull fucking shit.
Without your gear you would be 160-170 with a swimmers build.
I saw that gay ass picture of you with spiky hair. You are all drugs. And you are a fucking guido.
Anyway, I don't care about being "big". I wouldn't want to weigh over 200. I just want a decent healthy build, but be able to look lean and trim in a suit.
These past couple weeks I havn't given a shit about my body at all actually. Sometimes you just gotta take a break from the bodybuilding shit.
A: I was over 210 in that pic
B: who fucking cares
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A: I was over 210 in that pic
B: who fucking cares
You care a lot about yourself. You probably jack off and finger your asshole while staring into a full length mirror.
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You care a lot about yourself. You probably jack off and finger your asshole while staring into a full length mirror.
Obsess much?
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I really don't think that BFRS obsesses so much, I just think that he's a "truth seeker" and he calls bullshit when he sees it.
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Still see blackfagredstar still has zero to contribute!
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I really don't think that BFRS obsesses so much, I just think that he's a "truth seeker" and he calls bullshit when he sees it.
I think you are correct on this.
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I don't think he knows his ass from a hole in the ground
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"They will know the truth, and the truth will set them free" ;D
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Still see blackfagredstar still has zero to contribute!
I already "contributed".
You don't contribute shit either. You don't know shit about lifting and training that everyone else don't know.
Lifting and training is EXTREMELY SIMPLE. We do not need fake ass, bitch ass "gurus" like you to tell us the "right way" to do it.
You're a fucking joke. Steroids are the only secret to fitness that you have. Everything else is bullshit.
Now go inject some more tren. Then you can tell all your gullible clients that it's not from steroids, it's from advanced nutrition and training methods.
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Of course I don't!
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Of course I don't!
That's right. You are a bitch. Choke on my cock mother fucker.
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Ok...hahahaha!
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Fatpanda said, along with the energy systems, overtraining is a fairytale.
[/quote
you are a lying sack of idiotic shit.
i never said any such thing - post a quote where i have and i'll kill myself.
if you cannot kill yourself.
deal ?
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Yeah, no more soreness, and also when you gain back full strength or increased strength. Pushing out a few reps and seeing how it feels and how your power is is usually a good measure of if the muscle is recovered. For me it usually only takes about 4 days of recovery and i'm ready to push that muscle 100% again.
no.
muscle soreness is no indicator of a muscle being fully recovered.
a muscle can continue to be loaded and grow every single day, weather sore or not - numerous studies show this.
strength wise you do need a few days rest - but this is nothing to do with the muscle being recovered its to do with the cns.
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I'm curious panda, how do you see what I've experienced the last 12 days... Here is what happened, my dips went from bodyweight plus 20 pounds added for 6 reps, and now I'm up to bodyweight plus 80 added pounds for 7 reps, and I've been doing these dips every 48 hours and getting stronger each and every workout. How do you explain this? P.S. I usually don't make progress unless I wait 6 to 8 days btw sessions.
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Again..go back and read, I posted it several times!
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That's right. You are a bitch. Choke on my cock mother fucker.
why does this fag always want guys to blow him ?
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Because he's a fag.
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I'm curious panda, how do you see what I've experienced the last 12 days... Here is what happened, my dips went from bodyweight plus 20 pounds added for 6 reps, and now I'm up to bodyweight plus 80 added pounds for 7 reps, and I've been doing these dips every 48 hours and getting stronger each and every workout. How do you explain this? P.S. I usually don't make progress unless I wait 6 to 8 days btw sessions.
optimum recovery for strength coupled with optimum hypertrophy synthesis time scale.
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Come on bro. If we were stronger every workout we'd all be benching 500. MOST people on here workout and MOST people are not stronger every workout.
Does that mean they haven't learned your super cool way to train? Or is it possible that people don't get stronger every fucking workout?
I guarn-fucking-tee 10 months from now you'll be training totally differently and you'll shock us all with your NEW way to train, a secret in plain sight that we were all too dumb to see.
a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle-fact. if your growing, your getting stronger-fact. if your not getting stronger on a weekly basis, then your doing something wrong.
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Mmmm, buselmo, overtraining isn't a "myth".
Maybe not, but most bodybuilder telling they are overtrained doing 20 sets a day is an idiot
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I trained my arms 2 days in a row this week.
I would do it if my elbows wouldn't hurt like fuck for a few days after doing tris
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So you think that growth occurs within 48 hours of the training bout panda?
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actually training is catabolic so I just don't train
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Agreed......the more i read about people's "protocols" on this site i come to the conclusion that the vast majority here have no fucking clue how to train properly....that's why they are little whiny shitheads and accuse anyone who carries some muscle of gearing up
dude, i doubt half 90% the people here even look like they workout.
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I would do it if my elbows wouldn't hurt like fuck for a few days after doing tris
stick to cable work bro. isolation is where it's at. no pain, no damage, good growth.
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actually training is catabolic so I just don't train
traing is indeed catabolic if natural ,,,that why you see the 5'10 180lb fella in your local gym that stand at 10% no omatter how hard he train ,,he just cant go anywhere becsause ctabolizm,,
so in other wording,,training doesnt matter ,,you shall not train if no hormones in system ,,you just waiste your time,, if you think 165 lb 7% is ok and you like it ,,then you indeed shoudl train ,,but if you try to be bodybuikder then you need hormone in system ,,,in other wording you can train like pussy like half bodybuilder train lik e you lieing friend that lie about his usage ,,like the local state level comptirotr that never place better than 16 and always say he train hevay but you neevr see him do it,,etc etc etc they can train like that and still be 200+ at single digit because they are on hormones,,jucing their mama and papa,,lieing to you day in day out and you swalow it like the good fish you are,,well you USED TO SWOOLOWW IT.....and then! there was gh15,,
gh15 approved
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if you are a BB...you have never and will never overtrain.......you may under eat, and under rest...not not overtrain..
athletes can, and do overtrain all the time though...
bench
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traing is indeed catabolic if natural ,,,that why you see the 5'10 180lb fella in your local gym that stand at 10% no omatter how hard he train ,,he just cant go anywhere becsause ctabolizm,,
so in other wording,,training doesnt matter ,,you shall not train if no hormones in system ,,you just waiste your time,, if you think 165 lb 7% is ok and you like it ,,then you indeed shoudl train ,,but if you try to be bodybuikder then you need hormone in system ,,,in other wording you can train like pussy like half bodybuilder train lik e you lieing friend that lie about his usage ,,like the local state level comptirotr that never place better than 16 and always say he train hevay but you neevr see him do it,,etc etc etc they can train like that and still be 200+ at single digit because they are on hormones,,jucing their mama and papa,,lieing to you day in day out and you swalow it like the good fish you are,,well you USED TO SWOOLOWW IT.....and then! there was gh15,,
gh15 approved
God you say "train like pussy like half bodybuilder," do you mean that someone without hormones actually can't train very hard? I thought naturals trained largely the same way, they just have to settle for much less results?
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Nah man, I think that what God is trying to say is that juiced up bodybuilders train like pussies.
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Nah man, I think that what God is trying to say is that juiced up bodybuilders train like pussies.
they do...i trained like a lazy asshole when i competed...i spent less than 30 minutes at the gym 4 days a week..
bench
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Nah man, I think that what God is trying to say is that juiced up bodybuilders train like pussies.
not all,,,ron colman trained very hard,,many toher train hard,,but MANY MANY MANY AMATUER 240LB 7% DRY RIPPED GH INSULIN TRENBOLONA FACE ON A DAILY BASIS 5'8 ,,THEY TRAIN LIKE PUSSY ,,THEY WORK AS PERSONAL TRAINER,,THEY WALK AROUND AND TRAIN PEOPLE THEY HAVE NO TIME FOR SHIT,,SO THEY PLAY AROUDN WITH WEIGHT,,THYE ALAYS SAY THEY LIFT HEAVY ,,THEY LOOK LIKE THEY DO RIGHT?,,, 240 7% 5'8 IS HUGE ABSOLUTLY HUGE VEINS ALL POPING HAMSTRING LOOK LIKE IRON CORDS,,BUT GUESS WHAT ....THEY PLAY WITH WEIGHT,,YOU NEVER SEE THEM LIFT HEAVY,,THEY DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO MINIMUM ,,THEY GROW ON THE DRUGS ,,THEY HAVE SPECIFIC WAYS ,,SPECIFIC CONNECTIONS ,,THEY ABUSE DREIUGS,,THEY ALSO TELL YOU THAT THEY DID THEIR FIRST COMPETITION AT 180LB NATURALLY WHICH IS ALWAYS LIE,,,
its just the way it is fellas,,you need to learn to understand it and be smart about it,,i showed you the way that all i can do ,,you need to be brave enough to stand for yourself on your own feet and in the face of the liars,,you should knwo it now when i put it in you
gh15 approved
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not all,,,ron colman trained very hard,,many toher train hard,,but MANY MANY MANY AMATUER 240LB 7% DRY RIPPED GH INSULIN TRENBOLONA FACE ON A DAILY BASIS 5'8 ,,THEY TRAIN LIKE PUSSY ,,THEY WORK AS PERSONAL TRAINER,,THEY WALK AROUND AND TRAIN PEOPLE THEY HAVE NO TIME FOR SHIT,,SO THEY PLAY AROUDN WITH WEIGHT,,THYE ALAYS SAY THEY LIFT HEAVY ,,THEY LOOK LIKE THEY DO RIGHT?,,, 240 7% 5'8 IS HUGE ABSOLUTLY HUGE VEINS ALL POPING HAMSTRING LOOK LIKE IRON CORDS,,BUT GUESS WHAT ....THEY PLAY WITH WEIGHT,,YOU NEVER SEE THEM LIFT HEAVY,,THEY DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO MINIMUM ,,THEY GROW ON THE DRUGS ,,THEY HAVE SPECIFIC WAYS ,,SPECIFIC CONNECTIONS ,,THEY ABUSE DREIUGS,,THEY ALSO TELL YOU THAT THEY DID THEIR FIRST COMPETITION AT 180LB NATURALLY WHICH IS ALWAYS LIE,,,
its just the way it is fellas,,you need to learn to understand it and be smart about it,,i showed you the way that all i can do ,,you need to be brave enough to stand for yourself on your own feet and in the face of the liars,,you should knwo it now when i put it in you
gh15 approved
he trained heavy...not all that hard...there is a difference...
bench
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Agreed......the more i read about people's "protocols" on this site i come to the conclusion that the vast majority here have no fucking clue how to train properly....that's why they are little whiny shitheads and accuse anyone who carries some muscle of gearing up
Sad, but true. Almost comical to read some of these posts. The pity is these self-styled experts wouldn't know good advice if they received it.
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he trained heavy...not all that hard...there is a difference...
bench
No kidding! Out of all the bodybuilding videos I've ever seen, the only guy who has impressed me is Tom Platz. Aside from him, I've never even heard of a bber or routine that made me think "wow this guy is insane."
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he trained heavy...not all that hard...there is a difference...
bench
thats what i mean
gh15 approved
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I'm curious bench, which is more important for a natural trainer? To train "hard" or to train "heavy"?
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Serious question: what's the difference between training "hard" and training "heavy" ? ???
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I'm curious bench, which is more important for a natural trainer? To train "hard" or to train "heavy"?
depends on there diet and goal...
bench
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big vince basil the authority
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Serious question: what's the difference between training "hard" and training "heavy" ? ???
i can go to the gym....bang out 3 sets of bench with 495lbs, and 3 reps on each.....thats training heavy
i can go to the gym...work my ass off, and have people carry my broken ass to my vehicle...that training hard...
milos trained hard as hell, but never went heavy...
bench
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So you think that growth occurs within 48 hours of the training bout panda?
protein synthesis is raised for 36-48 hours after a training bout - studies show this.
you should read my training log.
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protein synthesis is raised for 36-48 hours after a training bout - studies show this.
you should read my training log.
i read it everyday, and debusey's....comedy is the greatest medicine...
bench
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overtraining definately exists but most people never train hard enough for long enough periods of time to get truly overtrained.
In most cases when people feel run down its probably a case of 'overreaching', which is kinda like a light version of overtraining and goes away pretty quickly if you rest a few days or maybe train lighter for 1-2 weeks.
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i read it everyday, and debusey's....comedy is the greatest medicine...
bench
;D
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Sad, but true. Almost comical to read some of these posts. The pity is these self-styled experts wouldn't know good advice if they received it.
Why do you cross your arms in all your pics? Trying to give yourself to illusion of having muscle?
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overtraining definately exists but most people never train hard enough for long enough periods of time to get truly overtrained.
In most cases when people feel run down its probably a case of 'overreaching', which is kinda like a light version of overtraining and goes away pretty quickly if you rest a few days or maybe train lighter for 1-2 weeks.
thats all it ever is....do some explosive movements like jumping, or throwing a medicine ball, and the CNS system will be back in action, and so will you energy...
bench
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thats all it ever is....do some explosive movements like jumping, or throwing a medicine ball, and the CNS system will be back in action, and so will you energy...
bench
yeah the average lifter will back off long before true overtraining rears its ugly head.
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i can go to the gym....bang out 3 sets of bench with 495lbs, and 3 reps on each.....thats training heavy
i can go to the gym...work my ass off, and have people carry my broken ass to my vehicle...that training hard...
milos trained hard as hell, but never went heavy...
bench
I see, thanks man.
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thats all it ever is....do some explosive movements like jumping, or throwing a medicine ball, and the CNS system will be back in action, and so will you energy...
bench
This fascinates me!!!
So, for example on those days (90% of the time) when I start deadlifting and can't feel my muscles working at all and start getting lower back pain, if I do some explosive movements that MAY help me snap out of it?
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yeah the average lifter will back off long before true overtraining rears its ugly head.
the average lifter is too lazy to ever get to that point...the use it as a excuse all the time though...
bench
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This fascinates me!!!
So, for example on those days (90% of the time) when I start deadlifting and can't feel my muscles working at all and start getting lower back pain, if I do some explosive movements that MAY help me snap out of it?
usually....it always works for me.....
bench
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This fascinates me!!!
So, for example on those days (90% of the time) when I start deadlifting and can't feel my muscles working at all and start getting lower back pain, if I do some explosive movements that MAY help me snap out of it?
it depends but explosive stuff can help to get CNS back online. but if you feel like shit every workout then you need to look over your overall training routine + nutrition and recovery.
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This fascinates me!!!
So, for example on those days (90% of the time) when I start deadlifting and can't feel my muscles working at all and start getting lower back pain, if I do some explosive movements that MAY help me snap out of it?
make sure they are natural movements though....like throwing, jumping..shit like that....not a machine, or free weights..
bench
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if it's sore don't train it
???
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I'm curious bench, which is more important for a natural trainer? To train "hard" or to train "heavy"?
the most important thing for a natural is that you train hard enough and progressively mostly in the (4)6-12 rep range.
training hard in itself means nothing unless you progress.
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Good answer 1st, and that answer is spot on 8)
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???
(http://api.ning.com/files/O6vSkIkV8nDPLUMYQd4n7ce4lKCkho*Y52nqqioJV*g_/ludwig_van_beethoven.jpg)
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stick to cable work bro. isolation is where it's at. no pain, no damage, good growth.
yeah I am doing this since I read about you soing it a few weeks ago !
I also included concentration curls ( I had never tried them before), GREAT exercise I destroyed my biceps without feeling it in my joints
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yeah I am doing this since I read about you soing it a few weeks ago !
I also included concentration curls ( I had never tried them before), GREAT exercise I destroyed my biceps without feeling it in my joints
I have been doing hammer concentration curls a lot lately. Great movement.
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if you are a BB...you have never and will never overtrain.......you may under eat, and under rest...not not overtrain..
athletes can, and do overtrain all the time though...
bench
youve got it backwards
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yeah I am doing this since I read about you soing it a few weeks ago !
I also included concentration curls ( I had never tried them before), GREAT exercise I destroyed my biceps without feeling it in my joints
dude, you been training for years now. your biceps look any different than they did last year or the year before that?
you gotta lift heavier, or else you never gonna grow. dont listen to these jackoffs saying training isnt important, just lift light weights and go to failure, blah blah blah. bigger muscle= stronger muscle.
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usually....it always works for me.....
bench
thank you for the advice! I'm going to try this tomorrow!!
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Cephissus and Blackflag are typical of young blokes who do all the reading and end up more confused than ever. Sometimes a little learning is a dangerous thing. If you don't learn how to make good gains in the gym you will have no clue whatever about advice given on the net. Hope this helps.
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Ok, so for anyone else here, I pose the same question that I asked panda: Does the muscle growth process fully take place within 48 hours of the training session?
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Cephissus and Blackflag are typical of young blokes who do all the reading and end up more confused than ever. Sometimes a little learning is a dangerous thing. If you don't learn how to make good gains in the gym you will have no clue whatever about advice given on the net. Hope this helps.
and eventually, you'll end up 75 and begging for blue stars on message boards.
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Ok, so for anyone else here, I pose the same question that I asked panda: Does the muscle growth process fully take place within 48 hours of the training session?
possibly, why dont you try it out and see if it works. stop listening to what people say, and do what works for you. i workout 2 days on 1 day off, everything gets hit every 3 days. 72 hour gap. works for me. might not be the best for you.
bigger muscle= stronger muscle... let that be your guide.
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dude, you been training for years now. your biceps look any different than they did last year or the year before that?
you gotta lift heavier, or else you never gonna grow. dont listen to these jackoffs saying training isnt important, just lift light weights and go to failure, blah blah blah. bigger muscle= stronger muscle.
they look just as shitty as before but they are much bigger.
the shape won't change anyway.
the reason I alternate heavy training and moderate weight supersets is only because of my joints. Once they start hurting, I swith.
BTW, the concentrations curls I did was heavy (6-8 reps).
doesn't mean that I don't go heavy because I do cable works for arms, I just go heavy for that particular exercise
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Ok, so for anyone else here, I pose the same question that I asked panda: Does the muscle growth process fully take place within 48 hours of the training session?
not exactly..there are different studies showing abit different numbers. the response gets shorter the more advanced you get. but yeah usually 48 hours or less. seen 24-36 hours mentioned in several studies.
steroid users have a constantly elevated protein synthesis. way beyond what is possible for a natural.
i also wanna mention that recovery is NOT the same thing as protein synthesis. recovery can take much longer than 48 hours..that being said you don't necessarily have to be fully recovered when you train the same muscle group again. it depends on how you structure your training and your preferences etc etc
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So are you saying that if you really want a muscle to grow you should train it every 2 or 3 days?
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Cephissus and Blackflag are typical of young blokes who do all the reading and end up more confused than ever. Sometimes a little learning is a dangerous thing. If you don't learn how to make good gains in the gym you will have no clue whatever about advice given on the net. Hope this helps.
sorry vince, i've been training for seven years and a half years in the gym, nonstop, and put on over a hundred pounds in that time.
here are some pictures documenting my progress:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/Lurmonious/whatasmile.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/Lurmonious/Picture6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/Lurmonious/Photo49.jpg)
hope that helps.
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So are you saying that if you really want a muscle to grow you should train it every 2 or 3 days?
no not necessarily. some people think that because they just look at protein synthesis and forget overall recovery.
research says 3 times per week for total newbies and twice a week for intermediates and advanced (as optimal) BUT that is not the whole truth as obviously people have gotten results training a muscle group less frequently than that AND and unless you are a total noob you won't be able to train a muscle group heavy every 2-3 days...so in that case you have to vary the heavyness of the workouts (in some way) or add more days between sessions for the same muscle group
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the reason I alternate heavy training and moderate weight supersets is only because of my joints. Once they start hurting, I swith.
BTW, the concentrations curls I did was heavy (6-8 reps).
doesn't mean that I don't go heavy because I do cable works for arms, I just go heavy for that particular exercise
I have never understood why people waste their time with those light workouts. The solution for your joints is a thorough warmup with light resistance then aim at something like 15 reps. Better pump and easier on the connective tissue. 6-8 reps might work for a while but eventually you will damage your joints because people have poorer form with heavier weights.
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sorry vince, i've been training for seven years and a half years in the gym, nonstop, and put on over a hundred pounds in that time.
hope that helps.
I have been training for over 52 years. You are still a novice at the intermediate stage. Good result but a long way to go.
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I have never understood why people waste their time with those light workouts. The solution for your joints is a thorough warmup with light resistance then aim at something like 15 reps. Better pump and easier on the connective tissue. 6-8 reps might work for a while but eventually you will damage your joints because people have poorer form with heavier weights.
wrong
A usually leads to B
C is an A
does not mean C will lead to B
hope this helps
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First Blood, I've missed your posts!
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First Blood, I've missed your posts!
Yes, I haven't had time to be on much the last few weeks ;) but I'm back..working on another chapter of the gh15 bible ...also been doing alot of researching on nutrition and muscle growth.
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Yes, I haven't had time to be on much the last few weeks ;) but I'm back..working on another chapter of the gh15 bible ...also been doing alot of researching on nutrition and muscle growth.
complete waste of time dude
focus on figuring what works for you and dont listen to any piece of advice anyone gives you
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Ok 1st, so I will repeat what I said earlier, with the risk of groink beating ma ass ;D Over the last 12 days, I have trained dips every 48 hours, with 3 sets til failure, and my strength has gone from bodyweight plus 20 pounds for 6 reps to bodyweight plus 80 pounds for 8 reps, so I'm curious how you see this? Also I did a similar thing with dumbbell rows, going from 80 pounds for 5 reps to 110 pounds for 6 reps in 3 weeks time training every 48 to 72 hours.
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So are you saying that if you really want a muscle to grow you should train it every 2 or 3 days?
I like the 48 hour period, maximisation...
You asked about strength. Quadrupled pull up and resistance push ups in a two month period, Barbell curls went up about 10lb, Bench obviously a lot, tie in with the push ups. As i said before, it's mainly strength and the size is considerably slower. I won't mention numbers because i lift very heavy on everything and i don't want all the trolls calling bullshit and starting a flame war.
There is no way i could lift what i lift at my bodyweight if overtraining was as common as some make out.
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complete waste of time dude
focus on figuring what works for you and dont listen to any piece of advice anyone gives you
don't worry ;) , I always try to combine what I read in studies with real world experience (both my own and others).
you can't write training routines just by reading studies lol. I mostly do it because it interests me. certainly not needed in order to get results.
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Ok 1st, so I will repeat what I said earlier, with the risk of groink beating ma ass ;D Over the last 12 days, I have trained dips every 48 hours, with 3 sets til failure, and my strength has gone from bodyweight plus 20 pounds for 6 reps to bodyweight plus 80 pounds for 8 reps, so I'm curious how you see this? Also I did a similar thing with dumbbell rows, going from 80 pounds for 5 reps to 110 pounds for 6 reps in 3 weeks time training every 48 to 72 hours.
dude you are gonna drive yourself nuts ;) if you think about it too much
also remember that there is stuff you can do in the short term that you can't do in the long run.
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complete waste of time dude
focus on figuring what works for you and dont listen to any piece of advice anyone gives you
Good advice, but your advice suggests that he ignore it!
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youve got it backwards
no...if you are a bb, doing a bb rountine you are not overtraining, and never will...bb do nothing that will ever push you to the brink, or overload your CNC...1 hour a day in the gym will never be overtraining....if you are a BB and think you are overtraining...you have let the mental portion take control..bb DO NOT work hard enough to ever overtrain...
bench
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traing is indeed catabolic if natural ,,,that why you see the 5'10 180lb fella in your local gym that stand at 10% no omatter how hard he train ,,he just cant go anywhere becsause ctabolizm,,
so in other wording,,training doesnt matter ,,you shall not train if no hormones in system ,,you just waiste your time,, if you think 165 lb 7% is ok and you like it ,,then you indeed shoudl train ,,but if you try to be bodybuikder then you need hormone in system ,,,in other wording you can train like pussy like half bodybuilder train lik e you lieing friend that lie about his usage ,,like the local state level comptirotr that never place better than 16 and always say he train hevay but you neevr see him do it,,etc etc etc they can train like that and still be 200+ at single digit because they are on hormones,,jucing their mama and papa,,lieing to you day in day out and you swalow it like the good fish you are,,well you USED TO SWOOLOWW IT.....and then! there was gh15,,
gh15 approved
LOL man you crack me up bro, I love it! :D
You should make the GH15 10 commandments
#1 Thou Shall Not Train When No Hormones In System
#2 Thou Shall Eat Mother and Father When On Legit GH
8more to go!! :D
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no...if you are a bb, doing a bb rountine you are not overtraining, and never will...bb do nothing that will ever push you to the brink, or overload your CNC...1 hour a day in the gym will never be overtraining....if you are a BB and think you are overtraining...you have let the mental portion take control..bb DO NOT work hard enough to ever overtrain...
bench
listen to this man... he's probably one of the smartest people on this board....
ok... that's not saying much... sorry...
let me reword that. this guy is really smart :)
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I'll define overtraining as "getting weaker because of too much training," whether from too much volume, weight, or attempting to train on too little food, etc.
Every time this topic comes up it seems like people fall into two camps. On one hand, you have the guys who say "yeah overtraining is real but don't worry about it, it's something that only happens to serious hardcore athletes that work out a million times harder than you." The guys saying this, in my experience, are usually pretty big and hormonized.
On the other hand, you have guys saying "overtraining is a huge problem and if you want to be anything as a bodybuilder, you have to be very careful about balancing workload and recovery." Usually these guys seem to be naturals and/or proponents of HIT, or high frequency / low volume styles. One person who says this (not natural, I know) is Dante -- he insists overtraining is the number one problem with bodybuilders.
As an aside, I currently lift 3 times a week in an attempt to maintain while i diet down, and have been doing upper / lower mwf style, feeling pretty run down. I'm thinking about switching back to once a week, three way (still mwf), more traditional bb style routine to see if I can bounce back.
Is overtraining a serious issue, an epidemic, or a nonissue for the average gym rat?
There is lot of theories about the over training in the Internet. Read them.
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I think whatever fatpanda thinks :D
seriously FP (also Mr. Nobody) advised me last year to decrease my training volume and it worked VERY GOOD for me!!..
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Yes, I haven't had time to be on much the last few weeks ;) but I'm back..working on another chapter of the gh15 bible ...also been doing alot of researching on nutrition and muscle growth.
don't listen to the fat motorcross biker, the bible is golden ;)