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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: hipolito mejia on January 12, 2011, 06:00:26 PM

Title: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: hipolito mejia on January 12, 2011, 06:00:26 PM
Fast forward to 6:55  to hear what big Ronnie has to say



I have to agree with Ronnie on that one.


Yip, Yip
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: el numero uno on January 12, 2011, 06:24:56 PM
Interesting, but IMO I think Ronnie was just being humble.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Nirvana on January 12, 2011, 06:27:40 PM
^ yeah I agree ronnie would kill dorian

(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Jaime on January 12, 2011, 06:35:21 PM
Ronni beats Lee imho.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: jude2 on January 12, 2011, 06:37:57 PM
Ronni beats Lee imho.
Of course.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: hipolito mejia on January 12, 2011, 06:49:31 PM
Without GH,Insulin etc Ronnie's calves would have been around 13 inches or so , He Would have been another B.Buchanan type of BB, had he been around in the 80's.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: CT_Muscle on January 12, 2011, 06:49:38 PM
Of course.

Not if Lee was 10 yrs younger
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Reeves on January 12, 2011, 06:54:42 PM
The Oak for the win.  Nothing compares to prime Arnold.  Nothing.  Natural belongs to Steve Reeves.  Ronnie is very good, I will grant that for his physique is without question exemplary, just not what I think of as a physique worth emulating.

As if I could.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on January 12, 2011, 06:56:09 PM
The Oak for the win.  Nothing compares to prime Arnold.  Nothing.  Natural belongs to Steve Reeves.  Ronnie is very good, I will grant that for his physique is without question exemplary, just not what I think of as a physique worth emulating.

As if I could.  ;) ;D

Steve Reeves was about as natural as Michael Jacksons face. 
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: monstercalves on January 12, 2011, 06:59:06 PM
Steve Reeves was about as natural as Michael Jacksons face. 


hahahah  8)
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: geneticmarvel on January 12, 2011, 07:02:20 PM
Without GH,Insulin etc Ronnie's calves would have been around 13 inches or so , He Would have been another B.Buchanan type of BB, had he been around in the 80's.

he just happened to be in the era of pharmaceutical abundance, Coleman possessed the best genetics, work ethic and had the constitution of a thoroughbred.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Reeves on January 12, 2011, 07:02:48 PM
Steve Reeves was about as natural as Michael Jacksons face. 

If that's what it takes to make you feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeel better about yourself.  ;D
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Reeves on January 12, 2011, 07:04:45 PM
he just happened to be in the era of pharmaceutical abundance, Coleman possessed the best genetics, work ethic and had the constitution of a thoroughbred.


Ah...the era of "pharmaceutical abundance".  Kinda sorta like the golden era of...nah.  Good analogy though. ;D
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Flexb on January 12, 2011, 07:56:42 PM
Just take a look at Ronnie in 94, before certain advancements, if you think Ronnie actually stood a chance against Lee while using basically the same shit.

Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: hipolito mejia on January 12, 2011, 08:07:25 PM
he just happened to be in the era of pharmaceutical abundance, Coleman possessed the best genetics, work ethic and had the constitution of a thoroughbred.

Thas is exactly why Ronnie himself think that without The "pharmaceutica abundancel" he dont think he coulld have keep up with the package presented by Lee during that time...

(watch the clip again) from 6:55 on

Best genetcis? Ronnie won his first sandow at age 34 with better drugs, yet his calves were the poorest on stage that year ... while Lee Haney won his 8th Mr.O by age 31!
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: G_Thang on January 12, 2011, 09:27:22 PM
Thas is exactly why Ronnie himself think that without The "pharmaceutica abundancel" he dont think he coulld have keep up with the package presented by Lee during that time...

(watch the clip again) from 6:55 on

Best genetcis? Ronnie won his first sandow at age 34 with better drugs, yet his calves were the poorest on stage that year ... while Lee Haney won his 8th Mr.O by age 31!

 ::)

Ronnie had a fuckin full-time career before shawn ray and kevin levrone told him to give up bbing and stop wasting his money.  now...put ronnie behind a gym help desk like phil heath from one day and see how may Os he would have won.  he should have had 9 given he was still better than jay in 06 even with all the tears.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: epic_alien on January 12, 2011, 09:40:58 PM
its funny how in the end of the clip he says, if "lee took what i took he would have been better", then he says if i was in lee era "it wouldnt have matter what they gave me"

 he is referencing the drugs, and they still taped it
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: mesmorph78 on January 13, 2011, 12:12:37 AM
Just take a look at Ronnie in 94, before certain advancements, if you think Ronnie actually stood a chance against Lee while using basically the same shit.



Now throw up a clip or pics of Lee when he was just started...
 :-\
Sorry genetic wise Coleman poos all over Lee
No contest
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Meso_z on January 13, 2011, 01:25:40 AM
Ronnie > Lee
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: suckmymuscle on January 13, 2011, 02:20:37 AM
Fast forward to 6:55  to hear what big Ronnie has to say



I have to agree with Ronnie on that one.


Yip, Yip

  Haney was more complete and had a better, more balanced skeletal frame. Coleman was superior in every other way- muscularity, aesthetics, muscle quality, etc.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on January 13, 2011, 04:00:53 AM
it's funny that lee is older than ronnie by only 5 years!!..

i agree with what ronnie said here and respect him.. lee didn't have real weak points as ronnie and logically if he took what ronnie took he would have become something else!!..
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: JP_RC on January 13, 2011, 06:50:50 AM
Ronnie had better arms and was a mass monster and his size alone would be too much for Haney from a bb judging perspective.

But

Lee Haney in my opinion a much better classic physique, great symmetry, small waist, etc. A physique you could look at and say 'that looks good' instead of just 'that is a freak' so frequent with bb's post 1993.

Overall Haney's physique> Coleman's physique imo

And Sergio Oliva's build > both of them.  8)
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Grape Ape on January 13, 2011, 07:02:49 AM
Ronnie had better arms and was a mass monster and his size alone would be too much for Haney from a bb judging perspective.

But

Lee Haney in my opinion a much better classic physique, great symmetry, small waist, etc. A physique you could look at and say 'that looks good' instead of just 'that is a freak' so frequent with bb's post 1993.

Overall Haney's physique> Coleman's physique imo

And Sergio Oliva's build > both of them.  8)

I am a big Haney fan, but 98 Ronnie was had all that + the freak factor.  Haney did have weak points that were pointed out at the time - arms kind of small in relation to torso, quad separation, calves...etc. 

Not taking anything away from him, but Ronnie would have destroyed him.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: MB on January 13, 2011, 07:05:02 AM
Lee presented his best showing in '91, his last Olympia.  That goes to show he could have stepped it up even more.  Imagine Haney with mid '90s conditioning at 250 lbs.   
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: slaver on January 13, 2011, 07:10:28 AM
(http://www.arnoldschwarzeneggercontroversy.com/anold_schwarzengger_017%20small%20to%20left.JPG)
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: JP_RC on January 13, 2011, 07:14:50 AM
I am a big Haney fan, but 98 Ronnie was had all that + the freak factor.  Haney did have weak points that were pointed out at the time - arms kind of small in relation to torso, quad separation, calves...etc. 

Not taking anything away from him, but Ronnie would have destroyed him.

I kind of agree, 98 Ronnie was incredible. Post 99 Ronnie went to crap though.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Flexb on January 13, 2011, 07:21:45 AM
Now throw up a clip or pics of Lee when he was just started...
 :-\
Sorry genetic wise Coleman poos all over Lee
No contest

I knew someone would try to say that. Ronnie looking like a twink here had more to do with drug selection and availability at that time. he had been training for years and competing professionally for a few years before this Olympia. Someone said Lee was only 31 when he won his eighth O. Ronnie is probably about that age here. Head to head, drug to drug, Lee Haney wins. this video makes it pretty clear actually.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on January 13, 2011, 08:33:48 AM
I am a big Haney fan, but 98 Ronnie was had all that + the freak factor.  Haney did have weak points that were pointed out at the time - arms kind of small in relation to torso, quad separation, calves...etc. 

Not taking anything away from him, but Ronnie would have destroyed him.

you are comparing ronnie's best to lee's best and this is not fair because what lee had taken was not the same as what ronnie too (as ronnie himself mentioned)..

lee's calves were not bad at all especially for a black man!!..
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: wes on January 13, 2011, 08:40:14 AM
you are comparing ronnie's best to lee's best and this is not fair because what lee had taken was not the same as what ronnie took
When you enter a contest,nobody judges you on what drugs you`ve taken,they judge the physique on that particular contest day.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on January 13, 2011, 08:49:29 AM
When you enter a contest,nobody judges you on what drugs you`ve taken,they judge the physique on that particular contest day.

i mean it's not fair to compare some one who competed 20 years ago or even 10 years ago to a current pro. because the main thing in pro. bb (after genetics) is drugs!!.. ronnie said clearly IF lee had taken what i took he would have been better than me.. so the subject of this thread is not to compare ronnie at his best to lee at his best but to imagine if lee took what ronnie took what would have he looked like!!..

so we can't say for example branch warren is a better bb than arnold just because his best beats arnold best without putting into consideration the many ears between them!!..
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Flexb on January 13, 2011, 09:04:50 AM
Obviously Ronnie beats Lee if you take each man at his best from his era and compare. But put Lee in Ronnie's era and Lee Wins. Put Ronnie in Lee's era, Lee wins.

Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: MB on January 13, 2011, 11:00:43 AM
Obviously Ronnie beats Lee if you take each man at his best from his era and compare. But put Lee in Ronnie's era and Lee Wins. Put Ronnie in Lee's era, Lee wins.

I agree.  So if we're matching eras is Lee the greatest of all-time?  I say Arnold, Dorian, Lee, Ronnie.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: hipolito mejia on January 13, 2011, 11:33:42 AM
its funny how in the end of the clip he says, if "lee took what i took he would have been better", then he says if i was in lee era "it wouldnt have matter what they gave me"

 he is referencing the drugs, and they still taped it


Yes , I noticed that too, he forgot "the icing on the cake" theory completely.


Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Grape Ape on January 13, 2011, 11:34:02 AM
i mean it's not fair to compare some one who competed 20 years ago or even 10 years ago to a current pro. because the main thing in pro. bb (after genetics) is drugs!!.. ronnie said clearly IF lee had taken what i took he would have been better than me.. so the subject of this thread is not to compare ronnie at his best to lee at his best but to imagine if lee took what ronnie took what would have he looked like!!..

so we can't say for example branch warren is a better bb than arnold just because his best beats arnold best without putting into consideration the many ears between them!!..

Had the drugs been available, Haney most likely would have passed on them anyway.  He alluded to doing some things outside his comfort zone to be in the shape he was in his last Olympia.

But, if he did, what would be better than Coleman?  All the flaws you point out - wider waist for example, would also happen to Haney if he took them.  His arm/torso ratio would get worse, etc....

But, it's lunacy to argue physiques based on what they COULD'VE taken, since there's no way of really knowing anything.  Wes' comment is true.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: hipolito mejia on January 13, 2011, 11:39:17 AM
When you enter a contest,nobody judges you on what drugs you`ve taken,they judge the physique on that particular contest day.

I know Ronnie 98' is probably the best a bb ever looked, BUT Thats not the point of this thread.



 Watch the clip Ronnie says if USING same stuff Lee would have beaten him on either era.

thats where i think Ronnie is right.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: hipolito mejia on January 13, 2011, 11:41:17 AM
I kind of agree, 98 Ronnie was incredible. Post 99 Ronnie went to crap though.

I know Ronnie 98' is probably the best a bb ever looked, BUT Thats not the point of this thread.



 Watch the clip Ronnie says if USING same stuff Lee would have beaten him on either era.

Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: JP_RC on January 13, 2011, 12:11:47 PM
I agree.  So if we're matching eras is Lee the greatest of all-time?  I say Arnold, Dorian, Lee, Ronnie.

Arnold
Sergio Oliva
Lee Haney
Ronnie
Dorian

That order.  ;)
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: geneticmarvel on January 13, 2011, 12:12:51 PM

Yes , I noticed that too, he forgot "the icing on the cake" theory completely.




The drugs are supposed to be the icing on the cake, instead people being people, use them as the entire cake.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on January 13, 2011, 12:53:16 PM
Had the drugs been available, Haney most likely would have passed on them anyway.  He alluded to doing some things outside his comfort zone to be in the shape he was in his last Olympia.

But, if he did, what would be better than Coleman?  All the flaws you point out - wider waist for example, would also happen to Haney if he took them.  His arm/torso ratio would get worse, etc....

But, it's lunacy to argue physiques based on what they COULD'VE taken, since there's no way of really knowing anything.  Wes' comment is true.

i think and i may be wrong of course (since it will never happen) that lee's naturally thick and wide structure would bear more muscles in a better way than ronnie's!!.. also shape wise lee's quads looked better than ronnie's so just imagine them much bigger in size + his much better calves than ronnie's his whole lower body could have been clearly better than ronnies.. and where ronnie's biceps were better than lee's i see that lee's triceps were better!!.. both had great shoulders and backs..

also lee had one of the best chests ever,.. very massive and detailed.. either his upper chest or his lower one.. ronnie on the other side had a clear problem in his lower chest even when he was below 260 pounds (like in 1998).. both had somehow strange abs with a separation between the right set of packs and the left but still lee's was built in a better shape!!..
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Cableguy on January 13, 2011, 01:23:42 PM
Has anyone noticed how much dumber Ronnie sounded as the years went by? In the first clips from 94-97, he spoke clearer, sounded more articulate and was almost able to speak in complete sentences. In the BSN clip, he was the mumbling, stumbling mess we all came to know him for. Looks like the price to pay for using so many muscle enhancing "supplements" is a marked reduction in brain functionality... :(
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Hulkster on January 13, 2011, 01:50:25 PM
Quote
Lee Haney in my opinion a much better classic physique, great symmetry, small waist, etc.

Ronnie had all that too plus more size in 98/99 and even the 2001 AC although his gut/obliques were big by then.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on January 14, 2011, 07:51:51 PM
Has anyone noticed how much dumber Ronnie sounded as the years went by? In the first clips from 94-97, he spoke clearer, sounded more articulate and was almost able to speak in complete sentences. In the BSN clip, he was the mumbling, stumbling mess we all came to know him for. Looks like the price to pay for using so many muscle enhancing "supplements" is a marked reduction in brain functionality... :(

GH makes your tongue thicker.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 14, 2011, 11:08:15 PM
Lee Haney won his Olympia's while in his 20's. As we all know now, that means he was basically a baby in terms of bodybuilding. He won 8 by the time he was 31. Imagine if he took a year off and then took what Jay/ and Ronnie took. He most likely would have racked up another 8 or so titles.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on January 14, 2011, 11:09:35 PM
Everybody knows Hany quit because he realized he would not beat Dorian the next year.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 14, 2011, 11:15:04 PM
Everybody knows Hany quit because he realized he would not beat Dorian the next year.

From what I heard, he was getting weird pains in his organs and if he decided to go down the road Dorian was going, it may have really messed him up if not killed him.
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: maxkane69 on January 14, 2011, 11:17:03 PM
Haney is the greatest bodybulder of all time and Coleman is close second!
Of course Coleman at is best (arnold classic 2001)is better than Haney at is best (olympia 1991) but you have take in consideration the drugs advancement of a decade. If Coleman was taking the same drugs that Haney took at the time he would be inferior to Haney 1991 Olympia version.
Anyway kudos to Coleman for being humble and admit it!
Title: Re: Lee Haney or Ronnie Coleman ?
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on January 14, 2011, 11:18:25 PM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=362427.0;attach=397889)